Springfield “Garrison” 1911

[Totem Polar]

With all the excitement around the release of the SA-35 Hi-Power, this basic 1911 variant evidently took on a bit of the bald-headed step child role during new release time. That’s probably worth rectifying, as the Garrison is essentially Springfield Armory’s “Mil-Spec” with the addition of Novak-esque sights on top, and a beavertail/hammer/extended safety parts package on the ass end. All of which is a compelling thing, and a real contender for “best 1911 under 1k.” Considerably under: The blued Gov’t comes in at 800 retail, and we’ve all seen new Mil-Specs for under 7 bills all day long outside of riot season. Indeed, there’s a couple on GB right now sitting at 660-ish bids.

At any rate, for the 1911 fans—you know who you are, and you vote: this is pretty cool.

https://www.springfield-armory.com/1911-series-handguns/1911-garrison-handguns/

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/6192243c6581626b400daf4d0cc363e9091d025260cfd.jpg

[TGS]

Is this basically a Springfield Loaded series but without the ambi thumb safety and front slide serrations?

Any other differences?

Which, if we're talking about value, you can find the Loaded all day long for under $1k.

[revchuck38]

If I were in the market for another 1911, that'd be perfect. All it would need for me is swapping out the flat MSH for an arched one.

[awp_101]

I'm glad my 1911 fever is in remission...for now....

[Robinson]

Replace the thin stocks with regular thickness stocks and good to go. I like this offering from SA.

[psalms144.1]

In the last two years, I've bought five different Springfield firearms - a 1911 RO, a 1911 RO Operator 9mm, a Hellcat, a 911, and a Saint Victor rifle. Of these five, exactly one, the late 2018-production date RO in 45, have been anywhere near functional from the factory. The 9mm RO Operator won't even consider feeding JHP ammo, fails to go into battery with FMJ about 1-2 rounds out of every magazine, and the sights are regulated 6-8" high at 25 yards. The Hellcat was a jamming POS with a horrible trigger. The 911 would not shoot ANY 9mm of any profile reliably or accurately. The Saint Victor came out of the box with the castle nut completely loose, and shot 4-5" patterns at 25 yards, from the prone on a sled (verified by three different shooters). They all went back to SA under warranty, and all were deemed to be "in spec" and returned allegedly with no repairs. I sold all except the Operator at a hard loss with full disclosure of the issues I'd been having.

The 2018ish RO is generally OK - been reliable through semi-significant abuse, but the trigger is "meh" at best, and the accuracy is definitely not up to snuff for what I expect 1911s to be capable of (definitely less accurate than my DW CCO).

At this point, if I won a Springfield, I would give it to someone I REALLY disliked. I'm completely done with them - life is too short to deal with shitty guns.

I recognize that there are plenty of folks who have had good results with Springer 1911s, but I'm not one of them. Given that this is a rebranded "MilSpec" with better sights, and the "MilSpec" series was never known for quality of materials and construction, I'd give this a hard pass.

[03RN]

In the last two years, I've bought five different Springfield firearms - a 1911 RO, a 1911 RO Operator 9mm, a Hellcat, a 911, and a Saint Victor rifle. Of these five, exactly one, the late 2018-production date RO in 45, have been anywhere near functional from the factory. The 9mm RO Operator won't even consider feeding JHP ammo, fails to go into battery with FMJ about 1-2 rounds out of every magazine, and the sights are regulated 6-8" high at 25 yards. The Hellcat was a jamming POS with a horrible trigger. The 911 would not shoot ANY 9mm of any profile reliably or accurately. The Saint Victor came out of the box with the castle nut completely loose, and shot 4-5" patterns at 25 yards, from the prone on a sled (verified by three different shooters). They all went back to SA under warranty, and all were deemed to be "in spec" and returned allegedly with no repairs. I sold all except the Operator at a hard loss with full disclosure of the issues I'd been having.

The 2018ish RO is generally OK - been reliable through semi-significant abuse, but the trigger is "meh" at best, and the accuracy is definitely not up to snuff for what I expect 1911s to be capable of (definitely less accurate than my DW CCO).

At this point, if I won a Springfield, I would give it to someone I REALLY disliked. I'm completely done with them - life is too short to deal with shitty guns.

I recognize that there are plenty of folks who have had good results with Springer 1911s, but I'm not one of them. Given that this is a rebranded "MilSpec" with better sights, and the "MilSpec" series was never known for quality of materials and construction, I'd give this a hard pass.

Sounds like you're contradicting your self. You start with saying your RO is ok except the trigger and accuracy isn't as good as a gun twice as expensive. Then say you haven't had good results with their 1911s. A 9mm 1911 is pretty hard for any company to get right 100% of the time so anytime one is bought, that should be understood.

Their milspecs have always been one of the best buys out there. They've never been known for poor quality or materials.

[03RN]

In the last 20+ years I've owned 5 Springfields 1911s. The first one a milspec when I was 16. I spent the 2 years prior to my enlistment shooting 3days per week at a local indoor range and ipsc every other week if it didn't interfere with my wrestling, powerlifting, or hunting schedule.

Then a stainless loaded champion, a loaded, a MC operator, and a LW champion operator. I'm down to just a loaded and the LW operator. They all had been shot and carried a lot. That stainless champion even went swimming a few times and worked just fine after freezing solid enough I couldn't rack the slide.

I have had less issues with them than Glocks or Berettas.

The Garrison seems like a blued Loaded with a single side safety and no forward serrations.

I've been looking at grabbing a milspec to pick up for my son but I'll probably grab one of these instead.

[45dotACP]

In the last 20+ years I've owned 5 Springfields 1911s. The first one a milspec when I was 16. I spent the 2 years prior to my enlistment shooting 3days per week at a local indoor range and ipsc every other week if it didn't interfere with my wrestling, powerlifting, or hunting schedule.

Then a stainless loaded champion, a loaded, a MC operator, and a LW champion operator. I'm down to just a loaded and the LW operator. They all had been shot and carried a lot. That stainless champion even went swimming a few times and worked just fine after freezing solid enough I couldn't rack the slide.

I have had less issues with them than Glocks or Berettas.

The Garrison seems like a blued Loaded with a single side safety and no forward serrations.

I've been looking at grabbing a milspec to pick up for my son but I'll probably grab one of these instead.If I were in the market for a base gun, I'd be looking hard at one of these. They look pretty cool, and my RO has been a decent pistol for a base model. Just a few tweaks made it an exceptional pistol.

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[TOTS]

Sounds like you're contradicting your self. You start with saying your RO is ok except the trigger and accuracy isn't as good as a gun twice as expensive. Then say you haven't had good results with their 1911s. A 9mm 1911 is pretty hard for any company to get right 100% of the time so anytime one is bought, that should be understood.

Their milspecs have always been one of the best buys out there. They've never been known for poor quality or materials.

Agreed. And not to pile onto psalms144.1 who’s experience is, I’m sure, exactly how he is stating. But SA has a history of being one of the best values in 1911s. And one of the few manufacturers that custom smiths will consider for a base gun to build off of. They also have a reputation for outstanding customer service. I no longer have any of the four that I’ve had, but that’s more the fault of Dan Wesson and Colts Custom Shop than SA.

That said, seems like historically good quality shops have had newer products taking them away from their roots (Hellcat, etc, looking at you too, SIG). And the 1911 line was the only product from them i really ever considered, minus a great experience with the XDS.

[Totem Polar]

Yeah, I’ve owned a few SA 1911s over the years. Of the “current” offerings, that includes 2x Mil-Spec and an RO, which is essentially the same gun with the beavertail package and adjustable sights. With just the addition of vetted mags from the pile and bulletproof extractors, all 3 just ran and ran—their reliability window outstripping my ability to buy enough cases of .45 to break them. Lube, tune the extractor, replace the recoil spring and worry about something else has been my experience of their cheaper offerings. Which is why I am (yet again, for the umpteenth time) drawn to this new-ish basic 1911. This thing looks to be less than 40 bucks worth of Wilson extractor away from checking all the boxes for a serviceable Gov’t.

[psalms144.1]

Sounds like you're contradicting your self. You start with saying your RO is ok except the trigger and accuracy isn't as good as a gun twice as expensive. Then say you haven't had good results with their 1911s. A 9mm 1911 is pretty hard for any company to get right 100% of the time so anytime one is bought, that should be understood.

Their milspecs have always been one of the best buys out there. They've never been known for poor quality or materials.Well, OK then. I said there were folks who've had good experiences with Springer 1911s. My CCO cost $800, so way less than twice what the RO cost.

Seriously, the 1911 exists for two reasons - mechanical accuracy and great triggers. Other than that they're heavy, low capacity, and complex. So a 1911 that has a "meh" trigger and "meh" accuracy is a fail, IMHO. Your experience is different, I get it. But when I can shoot a G19 with the same accuracy results as a 1911, that 1911 isn't a winner in my book. And before I get jumped again, I carry my CCO almost every day when I go to work, intentionally picking it over the G19 I'm also authorized. So this isn't a Glocks rule and 1911 sucks guy talking...

[03RN]

Well, OK then. I said there were folks who've had good experiences with Springer 1911s. My CCO cost $800, so way less than twice what the RO cost.

Seriously, the 1911 exists for two reasons - mechanical accuracy and great triggers. Other than that they're heavy, low capacity, and complex. So a 1911 that has a "meh" trigger and "meh" accuracy is a fail, IMHO. Your experience is different, I get it. But when I can shoot a G19 with the same accuracy results as a 1911, that 1911 isn't a winner in my book. And before I get jumped again, I carry my CCO almost every day when I go to work, intentionally picking it over the G19 I'm also authorized. So this isn't a Glocks rule and 1911 sucks guy talking...

It's not that I "jumped" you. You brought up 4 guns that weren't.45 1911s in a thread talking about .45 1911s. What does their AR or hellcat have to do with their ability to make a 1911? I even agree with you about the rest of their offerings. The only Springfield I'd buy is one of their 1911s.

And while a meh trigger is annoying it's an easy fix at home.

That was a great price for a cco too. I thought they were $1200 guns.

[psalms144.1]

You brought up 4 guns that weren't.45 1911s in a thread talking about .45 1911s. What does their AR or hellcat have to do with their ability to make a 1911? Because a company that'll ship an AR without properly torquing the barrel nut is not a company I trust to make a complex pistol, like a 1911. Again, you have had great results with yours - and your MC Operator experiences were an influencer on my decision to try to RO/RO Operator. I wish you nothing but continued good luck with your pistols.

[MandoWookie]

With all the excitement around the release of the SA-35 Hi-Power, this basic 1911 variant evidently took on a bit of the bald-headed step child role during new release time. That’s probably worth rectifying, as the Garrison is essentially Springfield Armory’s “Mil-Spec” with the addition of Novak-esque sights on top, and a beavertail/hammer/extended safety parts package on the ass end. All of which is a compelling thing, and a real contender for “best 1911 under 1k.” Considerably under: The blued Gov’t comes in at 800 retail, and we’ve all seen new Mil-Specs for under 7 bills all day long outside of riot season. Indeed, there’s a couple on GB right now sitting at 660-ish bids.

At any rate, for the 1911 fans—you know who you are, and you vote: this is pretty cool.

https://www.springfield-armory.com/1911-series-handguns/1911-garrison-handguns/

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/6192243c6581626b400daf4d0cc363e9091d025260cfd.jpg

Close to the Dan Wesson A2 in feature set. I wish more companies would offer 1911s that look like originals, but with better sights and safety's. I am also baffled by the dominance of triggers with holes in them. Is there a practical reason behind it, or is it just for looks? Because if its looks, solid triggers are better in my book.

[swampyank33]

The 1911 world is tempting me... A blued Garrison may just be my Christmas present to myself.

[Trukinjp13]

This looks like exactly what I wanted months ago. Frikin figures. I love SA 1911s. I have had the most luck with them by far in the sub 2k 1911 world.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Evil_Ed]

It was driving me nuts, knowing I had seen one of these before...and I had - the Colt Competition series of guns :) Less than a grand, too...though Springfield comes in maybe a hundred bucks less. While I'm not sure the Colt would be worth a hundred more, I'm not sure it wouldn't be, either; if that makes any sense...

I'd also trust Colt more to get it right out of the box, and to use standard sight cuts (Novak front and rear); I know Springfield likes to use their own cuts for sights on some models. But YMMV...Colts seem to be more difficult to find these days?

[Robinson]

It was driving me nuts, knowing I had seen one of these before...and I had - the Colt Competition series of guns :) Less than a grand, too...though Springfield comes in maybe a hundred bucks less. While I'm not sure the Colt would be worth a hundred more, I'm not sure it wouldn't be, either; if that makes any sense...

I'd also trust Colt more to get it right out of the box, and to use standard sight cuts (Novak front and rear); I know Springfield likes to use their own cuts for sights on some models. But YMMV...Colts seem to be more difficult to find these days?

A lot of dealers are putting Colts up for sale on Gunbroker right away when they get them.

I just took possession of a new Colt basic O1911C (1911 Classic) model expect it is a two-tone and has a Commander-style ring hammer and grip safety. It is one of the tightest Colt's I've owned other than Custom Shop guns and it looks to be built quite nicely. Colt's QA has been very inconsistent in recent years but they can produce excellent guns. It's possible this new pistol shows some DW influence but that's probably a reach.

I hope the quality of the Garrison is good to very good, as I think it is a desirable package other than the thin grips.

[Hambo]

It was driving me nuts, knowing I had seen one of these before...and I had - the Colt Competition series of guns :) Less than a grand, too...though Springfield comes in maybe a hundred bucks less. While I'm not sure the Colt would be worth a hundred more, I'm not sure it wouldn't be, either; if that makes any sense...

I'd also trust Colt more to get it right out of the box, and to use standard sight cuts (Novak front and rear); I know Springfield likes to use their own cuts for sights on some models. But YMMV...Colts seem to be more difficult to find these days?

I don't trust anybody out of the box anymore. If I could put my paws on a .45 Colt Competition or SA Garrison, I'd buy one.

[MattyD380]

Do we think the Mil-Spec is going away? I'd probably just opt for a Mil-Spec over this because I'd prefer a short trigger. Not that I'm actually in the market for one, either way. But... hypothetically speaking.

In any case...

Does Springfield "tune" their extractors on basic 1911s (or whatever else is necessary for base-line reliability)? Does Colt? That's really the only "feature" I'd care about having on my sub $1000 1911. But I'm not sure that exists.

[Elwin]

Do we think the Mil-Spec is going away? I'd probably just opt for a Mil-Spec over this because I'd prefer a short trigger. Not that I'm actually in the market for one, either way. But... hypothetically speaking.

In any case...

Does Springfield "tune" their extractors on basic 1911s (or whatever else is necessary for base-line reliability)? Does Colt? That's really the only "feature" I'd care about having on my sub $1000 1911. But I'm not sure that exists.

Replacing a 1911 trigger is one of the easier part swaps to do. An extended thumb safety, which most people want and which the Garrison has and the Mil-Spec lacks, takes maybe a bit more fitting skill to install (I haven't installed one yet but have replaced three triggers - so that's just my understanding at this point).

Most people also want a beavertail grip safety, which to my understanding is really difficult to properly install on the user end because it's likely to involve removing frame material and refinishing. So unless the beavertail and modern thumb safety aren't something you want, it would seem it's easier to get a Garrison (or the similarly-priced and spec'd Ronin) to your desired end state than a Mil-Spec by just replacing the trigger.

Tuning an extractor is pretty easy too. Whether or not the extractor on a budget gun is tuned is probably way, way down there on the list of concerns because it's easy for the owner to fix.

If I'm looking for a budget 1911, probably the two things it has to have (besides minimally sufficient slide-frame and barrel fitting) are a beavertail grip safety and decent and/or easily replaceable sights, because anything else I care about is something I can change or fix on my end without needing to refinish the gun.

[jellydonut]

Purely a cosmetic consideration, but I wish more 1911 models had kept the vertical cocking serrations unchanged.

[Robinson]

Replacing a 1911 trigger is one of the easier part swaps to do. An extended thumb safety, which most people want and which the Garrison has and the Mil-Spec lacks, takes maybe a bit more fitting skill to install (I haven't installed one yet but have replaced three triggers - so that's just my understanding at this point).

Most people also want a beavertail grip safety, which to my understanding is really difficult to properly install on the user end because it's likely to involve removing frame material and refinishing. So unless the beavertail and modern thumb safety aren't something you want, it would seem it's easier to get a Garrison (or the similarly-priced and spec'd Ronin) to your desired end state than a Mil-Spec by just replacing the trigger.

Tuning an extractor is pretty easy too. Whether or not the extractor on a budget gun is tuned is probably way, way down there on the list of concerns because it's easy for the owner to fix.

If I'm looking for a budget 1911, probably the two things it has to have (besides minimally sufficient slide-frame and barrel fitting) are a beavertail grip safety and decent and/or easily replaceable sights, because anything else I care about is something I can change or fix on my end without needing to refinish the gun.

What Elwin said. Installing a different trigger is merely a matter of finding one you like and swapping it out. You will need to know how to perform a detailed disassembly and reassembly of the pistol and hope that the grip safety interfaces correctly with the new trigger bow. Tuning an extractor is not difficult, just requires some study of material on the subject.

[Elwin]

What Elwin said. Installing a different trigger is merely a matter of finding one you like and swapping it out. You will need to know how to perform a detailed disassembly and reassembly of the pistol and hope that the grip safety interfaces correctly with the new trigger bow.

To be fair, depending on the trigger, you may also need to file a bit on it before it’ll fit in the frame, make sure the bow isn’t binding magazines, and set the overtravel. But I’ve recently installed one that required all that and fitting to the grip safety to boot, and it went fine just taking my time and using more paper than file to be safe. And if I can do it at a folding table in my garage using tools from Home Depot, anyone can do it.

1911s are also surprisingly easy to detail strip. If you can carefully use a file and sandpaper as needed to fit oversized parts, most people are capable of more modification and maintenance than they think. I know that’s what I’ve learned over the past year.

[Robinson]

To be fair, depending on the trigger, you may also need to file a bit on it before it’ll fit in the frame, make sure the bow isn’t binding magazines, and set the overtravel. But I’ve recently installed one that required all that and fitting to the grip safety to boot, and it went fine just taking my time and using more paper than file to be safe. And if I can do it at a folding table in my garage using tools from Home Depot, anyone can do it.

1911s are also surprisingly easy to detail strip. If you can carefully use a file and sandpaper as needed to fit oversized parts, most people are capable of more modification and maintenance than they think. I know that’s what I’ve learned over the past year.

You bring up a good point re: triggers. Most of my experience has been with Colt OEM triggers and they always seem to fit properly, even the interface with the grip safety.

[NPV]

Purely a cosmetic consideration, but I wish more 1911 models had kept the vertical cocking serrations unchanged.

You’re not alone in this regard.

[Elwin]

You bring up a good point re: triggers. Most of my experience has been with Colt OEM triggers and they always seem to fit properly, even the interface with the grip safety.

And I admittedly buy intentionally oversized triggers that I pretty much know will at least need some material removed to fit in the frame (10-8 and Wilson). And Ed Brown uses triggers with a different shaped back of the bow, so I should have known that one was going to present grip safety fit issues.

[Jason M]

I just purchased one of these in blue steel last night. I have wanted a basic 1911 with better sights/beaver tail for a while and this was sitting there in my local gun store's case. First impression is that there is a lot here for a "less than $700" 1911. It even had hand engraved numbers inside which I think were assembly numbers? Some of the parts are MIM parts and the GI style guide rod is hollow. I disassembled the pistol last night, wiped out the light oil that is came with and re-lubricated with Cherrybalmz black rifle lube.

Today I went to the range and fired 100 rounds of Federal 230g FMJ and the only 7 round mag that came with the gun. It functioned as it should. It was shooting a little right and at 25 yds was about 1.5 inches off. The rear Novak style sight was slightly off center to the right. It was easily fixed. The adjustment worked but I was a little off at that point. It's been a while since I've shot .45ACP 1911 pistols. All in all, it shoots pretty well! The recoil was what you would expect from a .45 ACP 1911 but the gun felt solid and the sights were easy to track. It has a little creep in the trigger but it isn't bad and certainly not as bad as most 1911s at that price point. Like others here, I prefer the aesthetics of vertical cocking serrations. But...these were really really secure using a slingshot grasp. This was so even after slopping some Kroil on the back of the slide to bump the rear sight. The serrations really work so I just think of them as being reverse Italic style. Speaking of aesthetics, the bluing is nicely done! Shiny on the flats and matte on the rounds. It looks pretty good. It does have all the sharp edges though. Think out of the box Colt but sharper, The thin stocks are a little small for my hands. I think I will replace them with standard dimension checkered walnut stocks.

As I said, I think there is a lot here to like if you are not expecting it to be a semi-custom or custom gun. Classic lines, modern sights/hammer/beavertail/safety and nice blueing are what I was looking for. Is it a SA PRO? Nope. Is it a solid sub-$700 1911 that may prove itself worthy of carry? Time will tell. Overall, I am pleased with the gun. 100 rounds is no kind of realistic evaluation but if it keeps working the way it does for another 900 or so, it will be hard to resist carrying it.

[MK11]

Do we think the Mil-Spec is going away? I'd probably just opt for a Mil-Spec over this because I'd prefer a short trigger. Not that I'm actually in the market for one, either way. But... hypothetically speaking.

In any case...

Does Springfield "tune" their extractors on basic 1911s (or whatever else is necessary for base-line reliability)? Does Colt? That's really the only "feature" I'd care about having on my sub $1000 1911. But I'm not sure that exists.

Dunno about Springfield but Colt is infamous for sending out 1911s with little to no extractor tension, which was the case with my stainless Competition 9mm. Some old heads write it off by saying you should just tune your own extractors but that's basically selling an unfinished gun.

[TC215]

My dad just got one of these, and I handled it briefly. Seems like a nice sub-$1000 1911. I dig the blued finish, and I like thin grips anyway. I wish it had front strap checkering, that's probably my main complaint. The movement of the thumb safety was a little rough...nothing like an Ed Brown or Wilson, but that's probably to be expected at the price point.

[TWR]

A buddy of mine bought one of these last week and we shot it this past Sunday. I kinda liked it and think it’s gonna be a keeper. Add a few simple parts to make it yours and shoot the crap out of it. Ain’t that what 1911’s are all about?

[awp_101]

My days of full house .45 appear to be over but if they bring these out in .38 Super I may not be able to resist. Or at least a 9 so I can do a barrel swap.

[rd62]

My dad just got one of these, and I handled it briefly. Seems like a nice sub-$1000 1911. I dig the blued finish, and I like thin grips anyway. I wish it had front strap checkering, that's probably my main complaint. The movement of the thumb safety was a little rough...nothing like an Ed Brown or Wilson, but that's probably to be expected at the price point.

When I had an uncheckered Springfield some free grip tape scraps from the local skateboard shop fixed me right up.

[JohnO]

To be fair, depending on the trigger, you may also need to file a bit on it before it’ll fit in the frame, make sure the bow isn’t binding magazines, and set the overtravel. But I’ve recently installed one that required all that and fitting to the grip safety to boot, and it went fine just taking my time and using more paper than file to be safe. And if I can do it at a folding table in my garage using tools from Home Depot, anyone can do it.

1911s are also surprisingly easy to detail strip. If you can carefully use a file and sandpaper as needed to fit oversized parts, most people are capable of more modification and maintenance than they think. I know that’s what I’ve learned over the past year.

I've done a few triggers and sandpaper on a flat surface was the ticket. Equal strokes top & bottom till it fits in the slot. Check frequently you don't want to overdo it. I have never needed a file. The shoe is typically aluminum and responds quickly to sandpaper.

[awp_101]

Anyone know what sight cut Springfield went with? Actual Novak cuts or their proprietary cut?

[awp_101]

Got an alert a seller I was watching dropped their price from $799 to $759. I took that as a sign so it looks like I’ll be the Guinea pig.

FWIW Harrison Design lists the Garrison in the Springfield sight cuts section so I’d say that’s a pretty solid answer on which cut they used.

[GlockenSpiel]

I've got a blued one in state-mandated quarantine at my FFL, I pick it up tomorrow. Not changing anything except adding some Stoner grips (I don't like slim grips) and grip tape.

[Borderland]

I'm glad my 1911 fever is in remission...for now....

Yeah, I just sold two Colt Gov't models. I just had 1911's stacking up in my safe. How did that happen?

[Borderland]

My days of full house .45 appear to be over but if they bring these out in .38 Super I may not be able to resist. Or at least a 9 so I can do a barrel swap.

Heretic.

[awp_101]

Yeah, I just sold two Colt Gov't models. I just had 1911's stacking up in my safe. How did that happen?
They’re like rabbits.


Heretic.
If that’s the worst thing I get called today, I’ll consider it a damn good day.

[peterb]

They’re like rabbits.

If they have another litter I’ll be happy to take one off your hands. ;-)

[19852+]

Yeah, I just sold two Colt Gov't models. I just had 1911's stacking up in my safe. How did that happen?

If you look in the back of your safe and see one of your 1911's looking like a Para Ordinance.... you know what is about to happen....

[awp_101]

If you look in the back of your safe and see one of your 1911's looking like a Para Ordinance.... you know what is about to happen....

🤣

[GlockenSpiel]

First impression is this thing is TIGHT. My plastic barrel bushing wrench nearly met its end on its first use. Safety is positive, trigger is crisp 5ish pounds, no overtravel out of the box. No rattle anywhere.

I suspect the finish is not particularly strong, but it is bluing and looks pretty nice. I have basically accepted I will idiot mark something on it at some point as tight as everything is, and as much effort as it took to wrestle it back together. Shooting it next week, probably just steel.

[awp_101]

I’m standing in the shop waiting to fill out my paperwork and most of my impressions match yours. I think there’s a hitch with the disconnector but I won’t know until I get home to my snap caps so I’m not having to ride the slide home.

[GlockenSpiel]

I felt a hitch when cycling dry by hand, but did not see one cycling with snap caps. I'm not sure if that's normal or not (new to actual 1911 ownership).

[awp_101]

I've finally gotten home and had a few minutes to go over mine. No pictures yet because I've got further commitments this afternoon and tonight but I'm hoping to break out the light box tomorrow morning for some beauty shots.

Initial observations and things I've noted:

It's not just tight, it's dry. After adding a little oil to the rails and cycling the side a few times, the hitch is going away. No hitch felt when using the slide stop or using the sling shot method. The last 3 of the sn are engraved on the disconnector rail . I'll also note that after a dozen or so cycles I can see the finish wearing on the rail. Totally normal AFAIK and what we're feeling when hand cycling could simply be friction from the engraving or the initial wearing of the finish on the rail. Absolutely non-issues IMO.

Bluing is nice with matte on the rounds and polished flats.

MSH feels like plastic but it does not have the ILS SA has been using.

The ejector appears to be pinned, not glued in place.

Over a whole 5 pulls, the trigger is running 4.75-5#. I've come to dislike triggers under 3-3.5# so this is a non-issue for me.

Slide stop really needs a bit of polishing/angle change on the plunger tube end to help avoid idiot marking the frame.

I did not strip the frame so I can't say what internals are MIM.

Safety snaps on safe with a crisp "snick" but isn't near as positive moving off safe. Borderline mushy going off safe.

Can't confirm yet, but a member on Addicts said he replaced the sight with Novak cut sights and another said he was told by SA the Garrison uses Novak sight cuts

My wife says it smells good (no kidding, she really did)


Changes:

Right now I'm only considering a few cosmetic changes and functional changes:

Swap the hex grip screws for slotted

Swap silver barrel bushing for blued (possibly EGW angle bore)

Swap front sight for FO, gold bead or gold line

Swap FCG for Harrison Design parts including Commander style hammer (or maybe just the hammer)

Swap the pins for nitre blued (if I do, I'll include the grip screws as well)

Grip tape or Wilson checkering strip on the front strap instead of sending it out for checkering


All in all, for ~$825 including shipping and xfer fees I'm very happy with this purchase so far. If it's reliable with hardball and target loads (SWC? Truncated cone? I'm drawing a blank on describing the bullet profile), I'm good with that. I shoot 1911s for just the enjoyment of shooting them so I don't require they eat duty or HP ammo.

[awp_101]

Pics up!

85614
85615
85616
85619
85620

Disconnector and rail (hammer does look like MIM)
85617
85618

Pinned(?) ejector
85621

Feed ramp, trigger bow, mag catch (mags are sticky going in and out, may need to adjust catch)
85622

Plunger tube attachment (can't tell if it's staked or glued)
85623

[45dotACP]

I've finally gotten home and had a few minutes to go over mine. No pictures yet because I've got further commitments this afternoon and tonight but I'm hoping to break out the light box tomorrow morning for some beauty shots.

Initial observations and things I've noted:

It's not just tight, it's dry. After adding a little oil to the rails and cycling the side a few times, the hitch is going away. No hitch felt when using the slide stop or using the sling shot method. The last 3 of the sn are engraved on the disconnector rail . I'll also note that after a dozen or so cycles I can see the finish wearing on the rail. Totally normal AFAIK and what we're feeling when hand cycling could simply be friction from the engraving or the initial wearing of the finish on the rail. Absolutely non-issues IMO.

Bluing is nice with matte on the rounds and polished flats.

MSH feels like plastic but it does not have the ILS SA has been using.

The ejector appears to be pinned, not glued in place.

Over a whole 5 pulls, the trigger is running 4.75-5#. I've come to dislike triggers under 3-3.5# so this is a non-issue for me.

Slide stop really needs a bit of polishing/angle change on the plunger tube end to help avoid idiot marking the frame.

I did not strip the frame so I can't say what internals are MIM.

Safety snaps on safe with a crisp "snick" but isn't near as positive moving off safe. Borderline mushy going off safe.

Can't confirm yet, but a member on Addicts said he replaced the sight with Novak cut sights and another said he was told by SA the Garrison uses Novak sight cuts

My wife says it smells good (no kidding, she really did)


Changes:

Right now I'm only considering a few cosmetic changes and functional changes:

Swap the hex grip screws for slotted

Swap silver barrel bushing for blued (possibly EGW angle bore)

Swap front sight for FO, gold bead or gold line

Swap FCG for Harrison Design parts including Commander style hammer (or maybe just the hammer)

Swap the pins for nitre blued (if I do, I'll include the grip screws as well)

Grip tape or Wilson checkering strip on the front strap instead of sending it out for checkering


All in all, for ~$825 including shipping and xfer fees I'm very happy with this purchase so far. If it's reliable with hardball and target loads (SWC? Truncated cone? I'm drawing a blank on describing the bullet profile), I'm good with that. I shoot 1911s for just the enjoyment of shooting them so I don't require they eat duty or HP ammo.One of the quirks of my Springfield RO is that it doesn't feed my SWC handloads very well. That said, it's not my only gun which doesn't feed these rounds so it's probably my handloads.

It feeds JHP and FMJ/RNL ammunition quite well however. The main issue that keeps me from carrying it comes from trying to run the (very spicy) HST 230gr +p ammo that clocks at 950fps with conventional recoil springs and hammer springs and my tired old competition mags.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[MandoWookie]

Pics up!

85614
85615
85616
85619
85620

Disconnector and rail (hammer does look like MIM)
85617
85618

Pinned(?) ejector
85621

Feed ramp, trigger bow, mag catch (mags are sticky going in and out, may need to adjust catch)
85622

Plunger tube attachment (can't tell if it's staked or glued)
85623


I've been very tempted to pick one of these up, and swap in some Harrison 'retro' parts to make a poor man's Dan Wesson A2( now that DW discontinued that model, and prices skyrocketed).

But I still go back and forth on it, as I have had a bad(but limited) history with 1911s.

[JonInWA]

Totally agree that the hammer needs to go-the OEM one just looks wrong to my aesthetic sensibilities; Harrison would be a great choice. Great report-thanks.

Best, Jon

[GlockenSpiel]

First seven shots of the day (and first ever with Mr. Garrison). 15 yards, the top one is a called flyer. Probably better than I can shoot my glocks and almost as good as my 92. I put 100 rounds of 230 grain magtech through it without issue. I agree the safety is a little mushy when turning it off. Otherwise I'm completely happy with it so far.

[awp_101]

My days of full house .45 appear to be over but if they bring these out in .38 Super I may not be able to resist. Or at least a 9 so I can do a barrel swap.
I haven’t even been able to hit the range since picking up the .45 version and this morning I see this:

NEW: SPRINGFIELD ARMORY GARRISON 1911 IN 9MM (https://www.guns.com/news/2022/04/25/new-springfield-armory-garrison-1911-in-9mm)

[Trukinjp13]

A 10-8 hammer would look great. You get the benefits of modern metals and the looks of the classic hammers. I want one for my Trp if they are ever back in stock. And he has them setup to match egw sears so not much smithing involved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[awp_101]

Finally got to hit the range and break in the Garrison. 55-60 rounds total of various 230gr and 185gr ball with no problems EXCEPT it won't reliably lock back on Wilson mags (not sure which model). Locks back every single time with the GI style SA mag but rarely with the WC.

First 7 rounds, ~10 yards offhand

88947

On round number 4, as Chuck P would say, the flinchies came for a visit and we made a trip to Shanksville.

The only thing that really stuck out to me was it felt like it's sprung very heavy. Maybe it's just tight and I simply need another 450+ rounds through it but it feels like it's moving slower than my other .45 Govts. I have no idea what SA is using for sring weights so I may order some standard weight springs (19/23?) when I get ready to swap out the hammer, grip screws, etc. And it needs a magwell.

[JohnK]

Finally got to hit the range and break in the Garrison. 55-60 rounds total of various 230gr and 185gr ball with no problems EXCEPT it won't reliably lock back on Wilson mags (not sure which model). Locks back every single time with the GI style SA mag but rarely with the WC.

First 7 rounds, ~10 yards offhand

88947

On round number 4, as Chuck P would say, the flinchies came for a visit and we made a trip to Shanksville.

The only thing that really stuck out to me was it felt like it's sprung very heavy. Maybe it's just tight and I simply need another 450+ rounds through it but it feels like it's moving slower than my other .45 Govts. I have no idea what SA is using for sring weights so I may order some standard weight springs (19/23?) when I get ready to swap out the hammer, grip screws, etc. And it needs a magwell.

If I recall correctly, when I got my professional many moons ago and when I got my TRP 2.5 yrs ago, both had 18.5# recoil springs.

[awp_101]

Thanks, I’ll probably try several weights so I’ll add them to the list.

[TOTS]

Thanks, I’ll probably try several weights so I’ll add them to the list.
In a Primary and Secondary modcast, Joe Chambers recommended a 23 lb mainspring and 18.5 lb recoil spring from Sprinco for 5 in guns in .45. I have been using this combination in my Colt as well as following his advice for 9mm 5 in (20/13) and have nothing but good experiences with them.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O_NrooMVMms&t=16613s

[revchuck38]

In a Primary and Secondary modcast, Joe Chambers recommended a 23 lb mainspring and 18.5 lb recoil spring from Sprinco for 5 in guns in .45. I have been using this combination in my Colt as well as following his advice for 9mm 5 in (20/13) and have nothing but good experiences with them.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O_NrooMVMms&t=16613s

That was the recommendation when I was into 1911s back in the 80s and 90s. It's what I have in my Series 70 Gubmint Model that I bought in '83.

[awp_101]

In a Primary and Secondary modcast, Joe Chambers recommended a 23 lb mainspring and 18.5 lb recoil spring from Sprinco for 5 in guns in .45. I have been using this combination in my Colt as well as following his advice for 9mm 5 in (20/13) and have nothing but good experiences with them.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O_NrooMVMms&t=16613s

Thanks! It’s time for me to revisit the Two World Wars podcast again anyway.

[Stephanie B]

I am interested in this gun and I have a Colt Series 80 GM, a Series 80 LWC and a A-O 1911A1 that all run well.

Clearly, I have a problem.

[awp_101]

I am interested in this gun and I have a Colt Series 80 GM, a Series 80 LWC and a A-O 1911A1 that all run well.

Clearly, I have a problem.
No we don’t. (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?2817-1911-picture-thread&p=1353659&viewfull=1#post1353659) If we don’t admit it, it doesn’t exist! Right? Right?!

And I already want the 9mm model…

[45dotACP]

I am interested in this gun and I have a Colt Series 80 GM, a Series 80 LWC and a A-O 1911A1 that all run well.

Clearly, I have a problem.It clearly sounds like your problem is not having enough 1911s.

I mean do you have a SINGLE 1911 with Novak dovetails? Or a 5" 9mm 1911?

Gonna have to get on that.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[TOTS]

Thanks! It’s time for me to revisit the Two World Wars podcast again anyway.
I never copied down the spring recs for the commander/ officer sized guns so if you do re-visit and come across those, please send them my way.

[Stephanie B]

It clearly sounds like your problem is not having enough 1911s.

I mean do you have a SINGLE 1911 with Novak dovetails? Or a 5" 9mm 1911?

Gonna have to get on that.

9mm is covered, got a BHP.

[Evil_Ed]

I am interested in this gun and I have a Colt Series 80 GM, a Series 80 LWC and a A-O 1911A1 that all run well.

Clearly, I have a problem.


A new one or older one? I'm looking at one of the new ones, which is about %95 of the way there...the thumb safety is all kinds of wrong, but the rest of it looks right. Basically looking for a copy of an early 1940s Colt 1911A1, and that ticks just about every visual box..again, except for the thumb safety.

And looking online...hmm, the local store that has a couple of them, seems to want an insane price for them, I wonder if I'm looking at the right one..

[45dotACP]

9mm is covered, got a BHP.Having shot a few BHPs in my time, I would still humbly suggest you need a government model in 9mm (aka the cheat codes gun).

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[Stephanie B]

I am interested in this gun and I have a Colt Series 80 GM, a Series 80 LWC and a A-O 1911A1 that all run well.


A new one or older one? I'm looking at one of the new ones, which is about %95 of the way there...the thumb safety is all kinds of wrong, but the rest of it looks right. Basically looking for a copy of an early 1940s Colt 1911A1, and that ticks just about every visual box..again, except for the thumb safety.

And looking online...hmm, the local store that has a couple of them, seems to want an insane price for them, I wonder if I'm looking at the right one..

I don't know how old it is. I bought it used for $400 off GB two years ago. The seller was starting to do a custom build, he had put in an Ed Brown barrel, but then he apparently got cold feet at the idea of doing a full custom gun on an A-O frame.

[Stephanie B]

9mm is covered, got a BHP.


Having shot a few BHPs in my time, I would still humbly suggest you need a government model in 9mm (aka the cheat codes gun)

And as to all of the stuff I've read on here over the years about how 9mm 1911s can be problem children because the case is too short (amplified for the .40s) and that if one wants to run a sub-.45 1911, it's best to get a .38 Super? That's not got some truth to it?

[Jim Watson]

Some.
But there has been a lot of work done to get 1911 types to work with 9mm, driven by the wide availability and low cost of ammo being shot by everybody else's guns.

I have had a couple of .38s but got tired of crawling around looking for my brass.

[Robinson]

And as to all of the stuff I've read on here over the years about how 9mm 1911s can be problem children because the case is too short (amplified for the .40s) and that if one wants to run a sub-.45 1911, it's best to get a .38 Super? That's not got some truth to it?

There is some truth to it. 1911s in 9mm are more finicky in general than those in 45. But recently some manufacturers have been building 9mm guns that run without drama. But I still don't trust them as much as a Government Model 45. Even though I've owned 9mm 1911s that were trouble free I always felt like I was one round away from a malfunction. I prefer either a 4" or Commander length gun with a bull barrel or a Government model with a bushing for 9mm.

The 38 Super is a longer cartridge and my 38S guns run great. I stocked up on ammo during the early months of the 9mm and 45 shortage because 38S was available and it took a while before the prices started going up significantly. But there is nothing magic about the 38 Super cartridge -- it is no more accurate than 9mm or 45ACP, in fact maybe less so on average. It's like a 9mm +P than works well in the 1911.

[mmc45414]

it's best to get a .38 Super? That's not got some truth to it?
Seems to me as the 1911 world turns things evolve, and they have evolved to the point that 9mm works in the 1911. The 38S is probably/surely more optimal, but you can expect a 9mm 1911 to work. I think they all come with ramped barrels now (Colt?...) and not so many magazine variables.

My personal experience is with two lowly Rugers, a 5" with a cone barrel and a LWC (a proper 4.25") with a bushing (I think Ruger got that backwards, but oh well) and with Wilson ETMs they gobbled up everything, including some reloads I goofed up that should have choked them. I only remember one bulk pack Winchester round failed to extract, funny I was shooting it as a baseline to make sure it was reliable with factory ammo, I almost never shoot factory ammo.

My summary opinion, it is not as good but it works great.



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[RJ]

Well how did I miss this thread.

Picked up a new Springfield Garrison in .45ACP in July. One range visit so far, 95 rounds of Federal AE 230 with no issues; so far, so good. I bought two CM Power Mags and two WC ETMs, all 8 rounders, to start with.

Not crazy about the white dot front (I sharpied the rears). I'm also not 100% clear where it shoots. Last part of the first range session I "think" it liked shoot the dot, so I'm going to try that next time.

92788

[rob_s]

Well how did I miss this thread.

I was just thinking the exact same thing...

[FrankB]

My wife and I bought a 9mm Garrison last week, and it’s pretty sweet. Lots of MIM parts, but they’re the best MIM parts I’ve seen.


https://youtu.be/ck3xhWvRSqk


https://youtu.be/2nQEg9JgLjM

[RJ]

Ordered and installed a set of "Coolhand" G10 thin grips on the Garrison today.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01J7S0ATQ?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

92847

These were $19.99 shipped from Amazon Prime. The right panel is milled with a pocket for the Ambi cut. I like these thin grips, and the color ("Grey/Black"), much much better than the previous set (returned with no hassle for a full refund. Nice.) They came with four T10 (I think?) screws and four teeny O-rings I inserted the O-rings onto the screws and tightened them securely (perhaps 10 in lbs?) with the provided Torx L-wrench. Texture is good in the hand, not too aggressive but not too slick. Trigger reach with a dry press is the same as the SA grips (of course). My guess is the G10 material will be a better match for outdoor shooting at The Pin Shoot next year, and won't draw moisture like the original wood grips (carefully wiped down and packed away securely.)


In other news, my WC Bulletproof Ambi Safety I'd ordered arrived, so I'm arranging with my local smith to make an appointment to get it installed. It's interesting, in profile it is perhaps 60% of the width, left and right, of the side part of the levers of the original SA left hand side safety. I have briefly used the safety (obviously very awkwardly) using my right hand, overhand, at the range to make sure it works. But I've noticed it sticks out quite a bit; having the WC part in hand, I'm very glad I went this way instead of the EGW part. Also, the rear of the lever is very nicely blended and beveled towards the frame, which I gather is a plus for these.

[Caesar]

A few months ago, Hilton Yam at 10-8 Performance was starting a 1911 build class on Patreon using Garrisons for base guns. I’ve had a 1911 bug for awhile and wanted to learn more about how it works so I bought a stainless model to follow along.

So far, it’s been a good experience and I’ve learned a lot. I think the biggest thing I’ve learned though is, if you want to dump the MIM for tool steel parts, they likely won’t just drop in. It took me a couple hours to fit a slide stop properly and don’t ask about how the extractor replacement is going. I’m on my second extractor and still trying to get it fit right. I have a new found appreciation for 1911 smiths/armorers to say the least.

[TOTS]

Well how did I miss this thread.

Picked up a new Springfield Garrison in .45ACP in July. One range visit so far, 95 rounds of Federal AE 230 with no issues; so far, so good. I bought two CM Power Mags and two WC ETMs, all 8 rounders, to start with.

Not crazy about the white dot front (I sharpied the rears). I'm also not 100% clear where it shoots. Last part of the first range session I "think" it liked shoot the dot, so I'm going to try that next time.

92788

IIRC, all three of my (2012-timeframe) SAs shot six o-clock at 25yds per the owners manual.

[RJ]

Shot the Garrison another 42 rounds today. I used the two new WC ETM magazines, and had some issues I would like some advice on

Ammo was 230 AE ball, same lot as before. I had loaded the WC mags to 8 rounds when they arrived on 8/4. Range objectives were to validate the WC mags, and see where a shoot the dot hold actually shot to.

I tried another of the local square ranges here in Venice:

93156

On the first mag, I was shooting with 5 rounds. After 2 rounds, I got this:

93157

The gun was pretty locked up. I struggled to get the mag out but did manage to do so. At that point the action was still locked. I applied some force to the slide and finally ejected the round. I added some Lucas HD gun oil to the barrel and hood, and racked the slide 5 or 6 times.

I performed the 10 8 Extractor Test. The gun passed. (8 rounds 2 handed, one round chambered, no mag. 4 rounds strong hand, one round chambered, no mag, and 4 rounds weak hand, one round chambered and no mag). Ejection was strong and to the right at 3 to 4 o'clock.

I then shot three more targets, no issues. I finished with 8 rounds for an attempt at "the test". At round 7 of 8, I got this:

93158

I quit at this point. Unfortunately I did not note which of the WC mags was in the gun.

I got home and remembered I had measured the feed lips on the mags I have, out of sheer interest, since I had seen a comment on a 10 8 video from Hilton Yam about 1911 feed lips. These were all done with my HF digital caliper:

93159

It seems interesting to me the mags with no issues (SA, 2xCM) average 0.390", and the other (2xWC) measure consistently 0.380". Thoughts? Is it possible this gun just prefers the other magazines (CM RPMs)?

[LockedBreech]

I'll be honest, I wouldn't be okay with that. American Eagle is great ammo, 230 is standard weight, and ETMs are reference-grade magazines. The 1911 should function. Worth a customer service call maybe? I'm not sure how Springfield is on that, no experience.

[Caballoflaco]

RJ Read this, get out your feeler gauges, calipers and other metrology tools and take some measurements and make some observations. Then decide if you want to mess with it or if you want to get your gunsmith to properly fit an extractor for you while he’s installing the ambi-safety.

https://www.1911forum.com/threads/steve-in-allentown-extractor-fitting.829865/

My first hunch is that you have an extractor that’s holding onto the case too tightly. It could be too much tension or it might not be fitted or shaped correctly.

From what I’ve seen online and heard from a few folks locally lately Springfield can be hit or miss when it comes to solving extractor issues sometimes requiring multiple trips back to the factory.

[03RN]

Try a flat bottom firing pin stop if it's not an extractor issue. I like slowing the slide down a tad.

[RJ]

More data/inputs.

I went back to my other local square range, with both CM RPMs to see if the mags would make a difference. To cut to the chase, after 25 rounds through both CM1 and CM2, I had a fail to feed on CM1 on round 3 of a 5 round string. I removed the mag and noticed that the slide was literally locked in place, slightly out of battery. Note this is with no mag and no rounds in the gun at this point. The slide would not move either forward or backward from this position.

93161

At this point I'm baffled as to what to do...while I'm standing there, I just keep putting pressure backward and forward and eventually the slide releases itself and resumes normal operation. I'm like, what the. Pondering if I can get anything else out of this session at this point, I lubed the barrel and hood again, and loaded 5 rounds in one of the WC mags (1) and sure enough, I got a FTF on round 3 of 5.

So things are not good at this point. It doesn't seem like its the magazines, but who knows. I'm back at home and will disassemble the gun for a basic field strip and clean. I'll be dropping it off with my local smith (Brandan Bunker in Ellenton FL) next week for the ambgi-safety install. I will relate all this and ask him to give the gun a once over.

Appreciate all the inputs.

[03RN]

Can you take a picture of the slide off the frame with a round up against the breech face under the extractor?

[Robinson]

@RJ

So far, to me this looks like you have too much extractor tension -- as others have suggested.

I just recently experienced this with a Wilson Combat 9mm Commander, so it can happen. Fortunately in my case it was an easy fix -- just adjusted the extractor tension a bit.

Hopefully yours will be an easy fix too. A Government Model 45 should run without any fuss.

[RJ]

Can you take a picture of the slide off the frame with a round up against the breech face under the extractor?

Interesting you ask that, I just put the gun back in the safe but:

While I had the slide off, I took an empty case, a live round, and a Tipton .45 snap cap and alternately inserted them under the extractor claw so they were held in place. Then I rotated the slide around.

In all three cases, the case/round/cap slid out of it's location and fell out. Meaning, the extractor claw was not doing a super terrific job of capturing the edge of the rim. I mean it is super loose, as in, you can wiggle the case against the breechface quite a bit.

So from more research / YT videos, this isn't how it's supposed to work. I had a mental discussion with myself about "ok, well, you know, you can probably take the extractor out, I just need to go get a pin punch..." and in the end I decided no, I'm conscious of my (relative lack of) knowledge on 1911s at this point. I have an appointment with a gunsmith next week who I can ask about the gun in it's present state (working, more or less). I kinda feel like I can wait a week to get some hands on input from someone who knows what they are doing. THEY will probably say "hey, look, it's easy, just bend it a little bit...here" and poof! problem solved. But me monkeying with it at this point? Eh, I dunno. A man's got to know his limitations, as they say. :cool:

But yeah, I think the input so far is on point, and I have an issue with extractor tension (oddly, I did the 10 8 Extractor Test today and based on it passing, thought I was "ok") somewhere in the firing sequence.

All in all I'm not bummed out. I wanted to have the "1911 experience" and being a retired engineer, I have more time than sense. I will get to the bottom of this one way or another. :)

[Hambo]

More data/inputs.

I went back to my other local square range, with both CM RPMs to see if the mags would make a difference. To cut to the chase, after 25 rounds through both CM1 and CM2, I had a fail to feed on CM1 on round 3 of a 5 round string. I removed the mag and noticed that the slide was literally locked in place, slightly out of battery. Note this is with no mag and no rounds in the gun at this point. The slide would not move either forward or backward from this position.


Appreciate all the inputs.

The slide stop could have move slightly to the left and caused that lockup. It's hard to tell from the pic, but it looks like that might be the case based on how much of the stop is sticking out the right side of the frame.

WC slide release and fit a WC extractor.

[Ichiban]

The slide stop could have move slightly to the left and caused that lockup. It's hard to tell from the pic, but it looks like that might be the case based on how much of the stop is sticking out the right side of the frame.

WC slide release and fit a WC extractor.

I've heard of that happening when people use their middle finger as their trigger finger and rest their index finger on the slide stop pin. There used to be a video floating around about how the 1911 will get you killed and the author was doing just that and locking the gun up.

[theJanitor]

The slide stop could have move slightly to the left and caused that lockup. It's hard to tell from the pic, but it looks like that might be the case based on how much of the stop is sticking out the right side of the frame.

WC slide release and fit a WC extractor.

I've had a slide stop walk and seize up the slide, so I'd definitely give that are a once over. My smith subsequently cut a vertical groove in the face of the slide stop, to engage the detent pin. it allowed the slide top to rotate up/down, but not walk out. @RJ, in between firing, do yo index your finger on the slide stop pin? My index point is in front of the pin, and I can feel the pin near the first joint of my trigger finger

[Hambo]

I've heard of that happening when people use their middle finger as their trigger finger and rest their index finger on the slide stop pin. There used to be a video floating around about how the 1911 will get you killed and the author was doing just that and locking the gun up.

When it happened to me, I was in the middle of shooting. The pistol was an early Kimber, and I fitted a new stop and never had another problem. If pressing the stop pin is a problem, you can cut them down so they are flush with the slide.

[TiroFijo]

The joys of buying a 1911... :D

And people keep doing it. No other design would be tolerated 1/10th of this work and sweat to make it run properly.

I'm not a hater BTW, I've had a few and still own one.

[RJ]

@RJ, in between firing, do yo index your finger on the slide stop pin? My index point is in front of the pin, and I can feel the pin near the first joint of my trigger finger

Well now.

I just took the gun, unloaded, and did a master firing grip. (I'm a lefty, remember). It seems my right thumb was resting on some little pointy thing...which turns out to be the tip of the slide stop pin, on the right side. Could be I am shifting it slightly to the left, as I;m shooting. Would this impede (and or lock?) slide motion? (sorry this might be a dumb question).

I do grip hard AF, but I dunno if when shooting today I was hitting the slide stop. For sure my right thumb is resting on the point. It's weird because the first session of 95 rounds went fine. I modified my grip slightly so my thumbs were proud of the gun. I may try this tomorrow at the range again. If I get the slide to where it's "locked" again, I'll try pushing inward on the slide stop and see if it pops more closer to the frame.

[RJ]

The slide stop could have move slightly to the left and caused that lockup. It's hard to tell from the pic, but it looks like that might be the case based on how much of the stop is sticking out the right side of the frame.

WC slide release and fit a WC extractor.

I think I owe you a beer.

I took another photo of the gun, correctly assembled, using as close to the same angle as I did when the gun was locked up. Compare the two images below. Left, the gun is "locked up" as Rich is standing with a big "WTF" thinks bubble above his head. At right, the gun as cleaned and oiled.

93172

I think you can see in the picture (I can, on the computer screen, with the original photos, for sure) in the "locked up" picture, the slide stop pin is very noticeably below where it should be, relative to the "normal" position shown on the right.

I think we are getting somewhere. Thanks Hambo.

[jh9]

(I'm a lefty, remember)

From another lefty that's gone round a few times with the 1911... someone else mentioned flush cut the slide stop. You'll want to do that.

edit: Don't flush cut and chamfer because you might be back to square one.

[03RN]

The joys of buying a 1911... :D

And people keep doing it. No other design would be tolerated 1/10th of this work and sweat to make it run properly.

I'm not a hater BTW, I've had a few and still own one.

Yeah, just look at the stickies on this board. All about getting 1911s to work. Oh wait

[TiroFijo]

Yeah, just look at the stickies on this board. All about getting 1911s to work. Oh wait

Yeah, how uncommon... :rolleyes:

BTW, I first shot a 1911 about 39 years ago, and really started getting into the intricacies of the design in the early 90s.

[theJanitor]

From another lefty that's gone round a few times with the 1911... someone else mentioned flush cut the slide stop. You'll want to do that.

edit: Don't flush cut and chamfer because you might be back to square one.

a heavy chamfer also effectively reduces the wall thickness of the frame where the pin resides

[03RN]

Yeah, how uncommon... :rolleyes:

BTW, I first shot a 1911 about 39 years ago, and really started getting into the intricacies of the design in the early 90s.

I'm addressing the comment about no other design would be tolerated with 1/10 the issues.

There are.

[Hambo]

I think we are getting somewhere. Thanks Hambo.

Glad to hear that. You can DIY that pin and then test the pistol.

[wrmettler]

I'm completely left handed. Years ago at a LAV class in Marana, Arizona, (maybe 2005-07 or so) I was shooting my trustee 1911. LAV was standing behind me. My 1911 locked up. My right thumb pushed the slide stop out a small bit, locking the slide. LAV explained the issue. I think because he was standing behind me he expected it to happen. He then proceeded to tell me the 1911 was an aficionado's gun, you needed to understand it, yada, yada. He wanted to know where my thumb had been when (or if) I practiced, etc. Said I'd have been killed in da streets. Finished the course with my g17. He was shooting a g19.

Shortly after that, I had all my 1911s slide stops ground short below the frame with the slide stop frame hole champered. Never had the problem again. Sort of expensive, though, because I had to re-coat the frames. And it creates problems for me in dissembling the gun.

[zaitcev]

I'm addressing the comment about no other design would be tolerated with 1/10 the issues.

There are.

The difference is, the market is deservedly down on the unreliable designs. Just look at people who buy Kahrs or SCCY.

[RJ]

I went back to my LGS again today, with all four mags. For this session, I conspicuously removed my right thumb from the slide stop, resting it on the frame below the pin but above the trigger, lightly, or actually outboard of the frame, not touching.

93199

Result was 35 of 35 rounds lit off, no stoppages of any kind. I mean 35 rounds is not a lot, but the complete absence of issues, vs. the jam-o-matic I had yesterday, using exactly the same ammo and magazines, kind of points to the issue being me, pushing on the slide stop. Kudos to Hambo who diagnosed the issue correctly. I would have never discovered this on my own. Thanks a bunch.

With those clouds of doubt out of the way, I shot a few B-8s, experimenting with hold. I am still figuring this out, but string 1 was 5 on 5, center of target, at 10 yards.

93200

I did a couple 10 round runs out to 25 and got 6 on paper with the first, then for string 2 I adjusted my hold quite a bit higher and got 8 on paper. So, still some work to do.

All in all a very satisfactory day.

[RJ]

I do grip hard AF, but I dunno if when shooting today I was hitting the slide stop...

Been thinking about this. I have a dim memory of shooting yesterday with a very firm grip so that I could focus on POI=POA. Because of that, I remember now feeling a little pointy thing under my right thumb while shooting. This provided a very convenient index since my natural G34 grip is to lay my thumb along the right side of the slide. Gripping the gun as per normal I am 100% positive that I was pushing the slide stop pin inadvertently, resulting in malfunctions.

I did some Googling on 1911 slide stop issues and there is more than one thread online about lefties having issues, caused by slide stop pins sticking out from the frame. Geez this isn't something I expected, for sure; just another consequence of being wrong handed all my life.

I am pondering whether to go ahead and deal with the issue with a grip change (not, really, desirable) or grinding down the Springfield slide stop or purchasing a Wilson slide stop and grinding IT down...I dunno yet.

[theJanitor]

Isn't Bunker gonna give the gun a once over anyway? let him do it

[RJ]

Isn't Bunker gonna give the gun a once over anyway? let him do it

Yes, I drop it off next Wed. I’ll discuss it with him.

[theJanitor]

Yes, I drop it off next Wed. I’ll discuss it with him.

Check extractor
Clean up the trigger (if necessary)
Trim the slide stop and make sure it clears bullets in the mag, and is profiled for easy assembly
Fit a barrel bushing (if necessary)

the bill shouldn't be big

[gomerpyle]

Been thinking about this. I have a dim memory of shooting yesterday with a very firm grip so that I could focus on POI=POA. Because of that, I remember now feeling a little pointy thing under my right thumb while shooting. This provided a very convenient index since my natural G34 grip is to lay my thumb along the right side of the slide. Gripping the gun as per normal I am 100% positive that I was pushing the slide stop pin inadvertently, resulting in malfunctions.

I did some Googling on 1911 slide stop issues and there is more than one thread online about lefties having issues, caused by slide stop pins sticking out from the frame. Geez this isn't something I expected, for sure; just another consequence of being wrong handed all my life.

I am pondering whether to go ahead and deal with the issue with a grip change (not, really, desirable) or grinding down the Springfield slide stop or purchasing a Wilson slide stop and grinding IT down...I dunno yet.

Just buy a Caspian receiver designed for left handed shooters and have Springfield fit your Garrison slide onto it:). Then have Springfield spec the hybrid gun like the mighty Delta 1911.

A man can dream....

https://www.caspianarms.com/receiver/left-hand-receiver-stainless

[Trukinjp13]

Back when the custom shop was a thing. You could get the fbi mod or some shit. Was basically a trimmed end and I think the frame was beveled around it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Robinson]

Back when the custom shop was a thing. You could get the fbi mod or some shit. Was basically a trimmed end and I think the frame was beveled around it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah the Professional models still come that way.

[RJ]

Just seen on Gunbroker:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/944415589

[Tokarev]

Not going to lie. It would be pretty awesome to see a 10-8 patreon.com Prodigy build.

[03RN]

Just seen on Gunbroker:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/944415589

Great price

[LockedBreech]

I own a Colt Series 80 Government and a Smith & Wesson E-Series Government, both .45, both stainless.

The lady is supportive of my gunning but generally not interested in having one for herself. I gave her my Beretta 92A1 and a P365 and she has been very content with those. The other day, she saw me looking at the blue steel Garrison and expressed interest.

However, she doe not like the 3-hole trigger. She wants a flat or G.I.-style trigger.

How much of a smithing project am I setting myself up for if I snag a Garrison? Is there a drop-in trigger available? Not the springs and such, just the actual part you put your finger on. I am happy to admit I am a relatively poor home gunsmith. I can put night sights in, that's about all.

[MountainRaven]

I own a Colt Series 80 Government and a Smith & Wesson E-Series Government, both .45, both stainless.

The lady is supportive of my gunning but generally not interested in having one for herself. I gave her my Beretta 92A1 and a P365 and she has been very content with those. The other day, she saw me looking at the blue steel Garrison and expressed interest.

However, she doe not like the 3-hole trigger. She wants a flat or G.I.-style trigger.

How much of a smithing project am I setting myself up for if I snag a Garrison? Is there a drop-in trigger available? Not the springs and such, just the actual part you put your finger on. I am happy to admit I am a relatively poor home gunsmith. I can put night sights in, that's about all.

Fitting a new trigger to a 1911 is super easy, barely an inconvenience; so long as you have a good file and some patience.

I thought Jason Burton had done a video on it for Recoil, but I'm not finding it, otherwise I'd share it.

[LockedBreech]

Fitting a new trigger to a 1911 is super easy, barely an inconvenience; so long as you have a good file and some patience.

I thought Jason Burton had done a video on it for Recoil, but I'm not finding it, otherwise I'd share it.

Thank you much. I will do some YouTube digging.

[RJ]

Yes, I drop it off next Wed. I’ll discuss it with him.

...and got it back on Friday.

96423

Sight installed was a Dawson, 020-024-00 "Sight / Springfield / Front / 1911 / Opt / .180T / .125W / Ramped / Also fits Dan Wesson.

The ambi safety is a Wilson Amgi, Bulletproof, blue, 192BBP:

https://shopwilsoncombat.com/THUMB-SAFETY-AMBIDEXTROUS-TACTICAL-LEVER-1911-BULLET-PROOF-BLUE/productinfo/192BBP/

96426

Operation of either lever is very very firm with no lost motion. I have a pair of thin Cool Hand G10 grips currently, pocketed for an AS, but the WC part doesn’t need them, it seems. Pretty happy so far in Dry Practice, need to shoot it.

I am finally getting to break in my Mitch Rosen President Express Cuban Brown BBQ holster with it. I picked the President because of the offset construction. Insertion is quite stiff, even after applying some Leather Lightning product to the inside surface. I recall my previous MR holsters to require breaking in as well. I am following the instructions by using the gun in the holster on my belt (also leather, also Mitch Rosen). Fit and comfort is good, despite it being a bit startling to get used to strapping on 2 lb of steel. I think the holster could stand a lower "pillow" to push it in a little on the upper end; an XL T-shirt yields some slight printing of the rear slide. Perhaps that's a combination of a full size 1911 and one or two patty melts too many on the summer trip to Michigan, as I seem to have found a 5 lb increase since getting below 180 last winter. Oh well.

So far so good, while waiting for my smith to finish, I ordered a bunch of more WC 500 magazines and more ball amoo to continue shooting. With the Ambi installed, I can now finally get to working on the 1911 manual of arms properly, and verify where the FO front sight places rounds at the range.

[Polecat]

Looked these over at the gunshow this weekend, well fit, beautiful. For the money really nice. Kimda has everthing Cooper recommended in a serviceable 1911, back in the day. Reminiscent of the old Springfield “Defenders” and Gunsite 1911s.

[Evil_Ed]

Fitting a new trigger to a 1911 is super easy, barely an inconvenience; so long as you have a good file and some patience.

I thought Jason Burton had done a video on it for Recoil, but I'm not finding it, otherwise I'd share it.

Well...it depends on the trigger, too :) Something like a C&S or Harrison trigger is generally oversize for the shoe, so that would require some work to take some off the bottom (and maybe top), as well as setting the overtravel. I've had a couple of C&S triggers that needed the bow to be both shortened vertically and narrowed horizontally as well (and one Harrison as well, for that matter). FYI, these were all in Colts; no idea how Springfield trigger tracks are.

There's plenty of drop-in triggers that'll actually drop in without much if any work, but they also tend to rattle around a bit...

[Deaf Smith]

I see them at pawn shops for $600-700 all the time. They look real good. I just don't need another 1911 (really!)

[arcticlightfighter]

My only 1911 and I’m keeping it

It’s a tack driver and for the price point a beautiful basic factory 1011

Only thing I had to do is install a Wilson low safety

If only it didn’t say “garrison” I would prefer Model of 1911 or something

[MountainRaven]

Well...it depends on the trigger, too :) Something like a C&S or Harrison trigger is generally oversize for the shoe, so that would require some work to take some off the bottom (and maybe top), as well as setting the overtravel. I've had a couple of C&S triggers that needed the bow to be both shortened vertically and narrowed horizontally as well (and one Harrison as well, for that matter). FYI, these were all in Colts; no idea how Springfield trigger tracks are.

There's plenty of drop-in triggers that'll actually drop in without much if any work, but they also tend to rattle around a bit...

I've put Harrisons in two Springfields and a Dan Wesson. The Springfields just needed a little off the bottom and one of them needed a little off the overtravel stop. The Dan Wesson needed a bit off the bottom, a little off the top, and nothing off the overtravel stop.

So small sample size, but with the guns I've put new triggers in, it's been pretty simple. YMMV, of course.

[Trooper224]

I've fit Harrison triggers to five different 1911s I can remember. Always consistent QC and minimal fitting requirements.

[RJ]

Put another 61 rounds today on the Garrison today at my local square range. Gun is now 263 rounds. No stoppages or malfunctions. I started in on an order of S&B SB45A 230 FMJ (ordered since I could not find in stock AE230.) And I made SURE my right thumb was not indexing on the slide stop. I am 100% positive this was the cause of my previous issues. I cycled through all my mags; 2xChip McCormick 8 round Railed Power Mags, 2xWC 8 round ETM 500's, and 3xWC 47C 7 rounders.

Today I was able to "run" the gun as per what I understand is the 1911 manual of arms. This is my first gun with a safety. So now I have an Ambi lever, I can slide lock to verify empty, insert mag, release slide to chamber round, flip safety on. To shoot, put gun down range, flip safety off, shoot. This may be old hat for most of you, but it is not yet wired into my lizard brain.

I shot a few drills, including Tom Givens Baseline Assessment Drill, cold, from low ready for a mediocre score of 172/200. Since I wasn't sure where exactly to hold, I just tried a Combat (put orange FO dot on top of bull) and pressed. This seems to be ok, albeit perhaps overall a bit low, on average? Or I am jerking the gun. Or both. I don't, really, have a lot of time on 1911s.
96478

I shot The Test* for a pretty good for me for irons of 96-5X. Actually I take that back; I believe this is the highest score I've ever shot on The Test. I was extremely pleased with that.
96480

* 2 mags of 5, each inside 5 seconds.

Back to indexing, I really do need to figure out where to put my thumbs when shooting. I'll experiment with this in Dry Practice and see what works best, then confirm at next range visit.

Afterwards, I did the alternate "armorer's grip" method to get it field stripped for cleaning today, where you hold the slide at the disassembly notch, remove the slide stop, then slide off the frame as an assembly, wrapping your fingers around the RSA so it does not launch into orbit. I gather this reduces axial wear on the bushing, vs twisting the bushing with a tool, but perhaps that only applies to expensive, hand fitted guns; of which mine is not. Again, my first 1911, so I am learning as I go. For reasons I can't explain, I find taking it apart and putting it back together very satisfying. Weird I guess.

I used my analog Wheeler trigger pull gauge and got an average of 6.2 lbs. This seems like a lot to me? I don't know if it will "break in" further. It's certainly a stout press at the break. There is no creep, the sliding trigger just gets to the wall and Clonk. The Ambi safety controls work well in live fire, engagement on and off is very positive, with a tactile and audible click as it moves into place.

I'm still really happy I bought this gun; it was a pretty good day at the range.

[bofe954]

Afterwards, I did the alternate "armorer's grip" method to get it field stripped for cleaning today, where you hold the slide at the disassembly notch, remove the slide stop, then slide off the frame as an assembly, wrapping your fingers around the RSA so it does not launch into orbit. I gather this reduces axial wear on the bushing, vs twisting the bushing with a tool, but perhaps that only applies to expensive, hand fitted guns; of which mine is not. Again, my first 1911, so I am learning as I go. For reasons I can't explain, I find taking it apart and putting it back together very satisfying. Weird I guess.


I always felt like 1911's were the only pistol that was meant to be detail stripped by the end user routinely. No roll pins, no bic pen springs.

[Joe in PNG]

I always felt like 1911's were the only pistol that was meant to be detail stripped by the end user routinely. No roll pins, no bic pen springs.

Well, there is that spring in the plunger tube...

[bofe954]

Well, there is that spring in the plunger tube...

Yeah, but if it's done right it doesn't launch out of there.

[Joe in PNG]

Yeah, but if it's done right it doesn't launch out of there.

That's the recoil spring's job.

[RJ]

I used my analog Wheeler trigger pull gauge and got an average of 6.2 lbs. This seems like a lot to me? I don't know if it will "break in" further. It's certainly a stout press at the break. There is no creep, the sliding trigger just gets to the wall and Clonk.



This bugged me all day so I went back last night and retried measuring the trigger press. This time I did it with the gun horizontal, not vertical. Average was now 5 lbs 4 oz. This seems more in line with what typical the YT reviewer is getting. So it's either my technique, or the tool I have is getting unreliable, or both. I have never been thrilled with the Wheeler analog trigger gauge so maybe it's time to upgrade, perhaps to a Lyman digital.

[Stephanie B]

That's the recoil spring's job.

Don't strip a 1911 while sitting on the balcony of a 19th floor apartment. The recoil spring plug was launched out over the parking lot.

[Inkwell 41]

Don't strip a 1911 while sitting on the balcony of a 19th floor apartment. The recoil spring plug was launched out over the parking lot.

Oops.

[RJ]

Back to indexing, I really do need to figure out where to put my thumbs when shooting. I'll experiment with this in Dry Practice and see what works best, then confirm at next range visit.



Went looking for some input and found Mas video on thumb positions.


https://youtu.be/XVvUHsFdHK4

Since Mas uses a 1911 for a good part of this demonstration, it seems relevant. I ended up trying all four of these in Dry Practice with the Garrison and settled on thumbs forward, with my strong (left) hand pointing more or less down range, on top of the right side Ambi lever, with my support (right) hand thumb curling slightly and resting against the frame but BEHIND the pointy part of the protruding slide stop pin. This seems to avoid me pushing on the slide stop pin, and steadies the gun.

I appreciate that this might be a person specific issue (I have M hands), but if anyone see's a problem with this, let me know. I'll verify it in live fire soon.

[RJ]

Right, so WC was having an early Black Friday sale, so I snagged a #414B (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=414B) BP Slide Release and a #417-70 BP Extractor, both in blue.

I was interested in the slide release because I observed the MIM Springfield part exhibiting some wear fairly quickly (it seemed to me) and it had a wonky fit into the slide, as well as the link pin. The pin part almost looks like it is not 100% straight either, which is a little worrisome, at 200 rounds in. It just seemed a bit looser than it should be?

Anyway, the new WC release is much, much tighter fitting, with almost no slop in the slide and link pin holes. I also noticed it seems to have a small triangular cut in the surface that initially sits against the plunger tube; this cut appears to be designed to allow the release to "slide" on top then over to depress the pin, avoiding the need to stress about Idiot Scratches. It just pushed right on, requiring a little oomph. I had none of the usual drama of trying to use three hands to get the release popped in place, while holding the slide at the take-down position, while depressing the plunger.

Cool, because one of my recurring issues is stoppages caused by me inadvertently resting my support thumb along the slide, pressing the pin ever so slightly that it stops the gun from running. Happened to me yesterday, in fact.

The geometry of the slide release blade on the WC part is cut different, as is the face of the part where it fits inside the slide. Assembling the gun I used a Glock Armorer's tool to center the link pin, while pushing the slide on. This seemed to help so I'll keep doing that. Taking it apart and putting it back together is not exactly something I can do blindfolded, but it's getting better. For some reason I really enjoy doing it.

97005
WC part on left, OEM Springfield on right

The BP extractor looks very nicely machined also. I'll leave replacement for a bit, as I need to figure out how to take the slide down properly.

I've put a spent shell casing on the retaining hook of the existing part, and while the casing is held there if I shake the slide, it ends up curving out a bit so it's not held tightly at all against the face of the slide surface. I think the extraction of the gun as is is ok, but I figured why not get the part while it was on sale, and have the experience of removing and re-installing the extractor. I gather I have to do that to clean the firing pin anyway.

And I can go cast around for new tools, heh. Dawson Precision has I think a "1911 Extractor Tool" which I'll need to look into, but never having done it, I'll see what's involved in removing and replacing an extractor.

[SW CQB 45]

I mainly use a Glock tool for .45 extractors, firing pins and firing pin stops, but I do have the Dawson tool that I used exclusively for 9mm extractors.

[FrankB]

I always felt like 1911's were the only pistol that was meant to be detail stripped by the end user routinely. No roll pins, no bic pen springs.

Oh Yeah. The LGS is a 1911 hangout, and they’re frequently stripped completely on the counter just because. Here’s a video of my Garrison stripped:


https://youtu.be/ck3xhWvRSqk

[Elwin]

Removing the firing pin and spring, the firing pin stop, and the extractor is really quite easy. Easier for example than replacing the leaf spring for the sear/grip safety/trigger return. I just use a punch that’s about the size of the back of the firing pin. Push firing pin in, ease firing pin stop down, capture spring tensioned parts before they hit you in the face, then pull everything out.

[Joe in PNG]

Oh Yeah. The LGS is a 1911 hangout, and they’re frequently stripped completely on the counter just because. Here’s a video of my Garrison stripped:


I often do it just because it appeals to the part of me that regularly disassembled my GI Joe toys.

[SW CQB 45]

this is a very easy video to follow for the firing pin stop and extractor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwsV1GE6yXw

[RJ]

I mainly use a Glock tool for .45 extractors, firing pins and firing pin stops, but I do have the Dawson tool that I used exclusively for 9mm extractors.

Thanks! I looked at that one last night and put one on order from Dawson. Inasmuch as the Extractor seems to be a key element in making sure one's 1911 runs properly, it seems like a no brainer to have a simple tool on hand to avoid damage to the extractor hook during removal. Also appreciate the tips above on firing pin stop, that looks fairly straightforward.

[RJ]

It occurred to me that since the design of the WC Ambi Safety doesn't require pocketed grip panels, I didn't, really, need to keep the Cool Hand G10 grips on the gun. So today I swapped out the panels back to the original thin wood grips.

Got an opportunity to clean out the frame in that area. I wiped it with a drop of oil, then thought about what might be appropriate to use for the wood, which was a bit dry. Ended up spritzing on some Ballistol and wiping them down. It seemed like an appropriate product to use a 1911.

And anyway I kinda like the look of the gun with the wood grips. It looks a lot more appropriate in my Mitch Rosen Cuban Brown President Express holster, which arrived recently.

97109

[BK14]

Right, so WC was having an early Black Friday sale, so I snagged a #414B (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=414B) BP Slide Release and a #417-70 BP Extractor, both in blue.

I was interested in the slide release because I observed the MIM Springfield part exhibiting some wear fairly quickly (it seemed to me) and it had a wonky fit into the slide, as well as the link pin. The pin part almost looks like it is not 100% straight either, which is a little worrisome, at 200 rounds in. It just seemed a bit looser than it should be?

Anyway, the new WC release is much, much tighter fitting, with almost no slop in the slide and link pin holes. I also noticed it seems to have a small triangular cut in the surface that initially sits against the plunger tube; this cut appears to be designed to allow the release to "slide" on top then over to depress the pin, avoiding the need to stress about Idiot Scratches. It just pushed right on, requiring a little oomph. I had none of the usual drama of trying to use three hands to get the release popped in place, while holding the slide at the take-down position, while depressing the plunger.

Cool, because one of my recurring issues is stoppages caused by me inadvertently resting my support thumb along the slide, pressing the pin ever so slightly that it stops the gun from running. Happened to me yesterday, in fact.

The geometry of the slide release blade on the WC part is cut different, as is the face of the part where it fits inside the slide. Assembling the gun I used a Glock Armorer's tool to center the link pin, while pushing the slide on. This seemed to help so I'll keep doing that. Taking it apart and putting it back together is not exactly something I can do blindfolded, but it's getting better. For some reason I really enjoy doing it.

97005
WC part on left, OEM Springfield on right

The BP extractor looks very nicely machined also. I'll leave replacement for a bit, as I need to figure out how to take the slide down properly.

I've put a spent shell casing on the retaining hook of the existing part, and while the casing is held there if I shake the slide, it ends up curving out a bit so it's not held tightly at all against the face of the slide surface. I think the extraction of the gun as is is ok, but I figured why not get the part while it was on sale, and have the experience of removing and re-installing the extractor. I gather I have to do that to clean the firing pin anyway.

And I can go cast around for new tools, heh. Dawson Precision has I think a "1911 Extractor Tool" which I'll need to look into, but never having done it, I'll see what's involved in removing and replacing an extractor.

My slide stop looks similar, and I planned on purchasing the same. Anyone think there’s a barrel link/figment issue, or just bad finish on the original part?

[RJ]

My slide stop looks similar, and I planned on purchasing the same. Anyone think there’s a barrel link/figment issue, or just bad finish on the original part?

I for sure don't know. Mine looks that way, kinda the way a Glock Gen 5 barrel looks, but without the smoothness of a Gen 5 barrel (despite the smilies). The thing that worried me is that the pin part is a wee bit crooked, or bent maybe (this is subtle), as if the metal (MIM?) itself is slightly deformed...which probably isn't good, but I have no clue. I'll shoot the gun with the WC BP pin and see how it wears for comparison, but that's going to be another 200 rounds or so.

[RJ]

Out of academic interest, I wanted to add the response I got from SA Customer Service today regarding the mainspring and recoil spring weights in my gun (5" .45 Garrison), in case anyone else was wondering:

After sending them an email, with my pistol S/N, I asked if they could confirm the recoil and main springs that were fitted. This is what I got back, confirming what I had guessed::

Good morning,

The pistol with Serial number NM7xxxxx, has a 16lb recoil spring with part number PI0030 and a 23lb mainspring with part number PI0054. I have added a link to a tune-up kit on our store that has both springs in it. Thank you and have a great day.

1911 Spring Tune-Up Kit - .45 ACP

https://store.springfield-armory.com/1911-spring-tune-up-kit-45-acp/

[Evil_Ed]

Well, yeah - I don't know what you were expecting, but that's been the standard for pretty literally 111 years; not sure why you would have expected that to be any different?

[Trooper224]

You're a cat chasing its own tail. The gun's over a century old and there's nothing new to discover. Any of the changes you've been contemplating quickly reach a point of diminished returns. You'd be better off spending your time and money on ammo and practice, rather than searching for the source of the river 1911.

[RJ]

Removing the firing pin and spring, the firing pin stop, and the extractor is really quite easy. Easier for example than replacing the leaf spring for the sear/grip safety/trigger return. I just use a punch that’s about the size of the back of the firing pin. Push firing pin in, ease firing pin stop down, capture spring tensioned parts before they hit you in the face, then pull everything out.

Thanks. Got this knocked out a day ago. Using the Dawson tool helped me doing this the first time. Extractor came right out using my 10 8 tool.

97353

I’d already got the WC BP Extractor so I didn’t fiddle with tuning the factory part. And I had ‘r/r extractor’ on my 1911 Task Book anyway. The WC part comes slightly bent, and the hook is larger in cross section than what was in the gun. I wonder if this might have contributed to my FTE together with me pushing on the slide stop pin. Hmm.

The existing factory FPS is really sloppy in the frame. My WC BP FPS should arrive soon. I’ve been learning more from various online sources how that gets fitted. I have my eye on some Grobet USA files if I need those.

I’m really glad to have started this process, learning about how 1911s work and also being able to take them apart and put them together figured high on the list of why I wanted one of these.

[RJ]

The existing factory FPS is really sloppy in the frame. My WC BP FPS should arrive soon.



The Wilson Combat Firing Pin Stop arrived today, so I fitted it to the gun tonight:
97401
Original SA Factory Firing Pin Stop at left, WC BP FPS on right.


Ok, Ok, "Fitting" might be a bit exaggerated.

Um. In actual fact, it is completely untrue.

The Wilson Combat FPS slid home easily, with very slight pressure, no filing or modifications at all. There was no slop or lost motion against the Extractor, or slide insert area.

The difference in part tolerances between what I assume is an MIM Factory part, and the WC BP Part is noticeable. Without the extractor in place, the SA Factory FPS drops out of the slide, by itself, it is that loose. The WC part is held in snugly by friction. I was also pleased/surprised the WC FPS has a slight bevel or radius to the lower end, even though it is labeled "square bottom". Since it had the bevel I was going to put on it, I didn't need to go source a file or do anything, really, other than insert it into the gun and let the FP pop into place.

Racking the slide, I'd guess it does feel slightly stiffer, which makes sense as the part of the FPS acting on the mainspring has less of an arm length to act on, hence stiffer.

Plan is to get to the range this week and try all this out; I've left in the mainspring (23#) and RS (16#) as per stock for now and will try the gun primarily with new FPS and Extractor and see how it runs.



PS I will admit I also ordered and installed a WC Bullet-Proof Flat-Cap Guide Plug, in Stainless, to replace the factory plain black one. just because it looked super cool. And it was on sale. I am sure It has no effect on shooting, but as I think I mentioned, it looks super cool. :).

[Hambo]

I’m really glad to have started this process, learning about how 1911s work and also being able to take them apart and put them together figured high on the list of why I wanted one of these.

It's not plug and play, but it's not the voodoo some people make it out to be. Welcome to the club ;)

[Jim Watson]

"I'm gonna yank all that there no good MIM stuff out of my Springer." is a common post, but I think it an overreaction.

My most used SA soon got to where it would not hold extractor tension and the slide stop was ill-fit.
But the hammer, sear, and disconnector took a 3.25 lb pull and has held up. SA ambi safety is better than I expected, good enough for the occasional weak hand drill or match stage although I doubt it would hold up to 100% use by a southpaw.

[03RN]

"I'm gonna yank all that there no good MIM stuff out of my Springer." is a common post, but I think it an overreaction.

My most used SA soon got to where it would not hold extractor tension and the slide stop was ill-fit.
But the hammer, sear, and disconnector took a 3.25 lb pull and has held up. SA ambi safety is better than I expected, good enough for the occasional weak hand drill or match stage although I doubt it would hold up to 100% use by a southpaw.

Agreed. I've been replacing most mim parts in my Springfield's more to ensure they fit. Then I save all the OEM parts as spares. If Springfield sent spare mim parts with their guns I wouldn't bother.

[SW CQB 45]

"I'm gonna yank all that there no good MIM stuff out of my Springer." is a common post, but I think it an overreaction.

My most used SA soon got to where it would not hold extractor tension and the slide stop was ill-fit.
But the hammer, sear, and disconnector took a 3.25 lb pull and has held up. SA ambi safety is better than I expected, good enough for the occasional weak hand drill or match stage although I doubt it would hold up to 100% use by a southpaw.

Jim, are you stoning the MIM sear to get that low of pull?

I have a 2005 MCOP with a horrible hitch in the trigger press. I put WC parts and it cleaned it up, but eventually I want to return the factory components.

[CSW]

In the last two years, I've bought five different Springfield firearms - a 1911 RO, a 1911 RO Operator 9mm, a Hellcat, a 911, and a Saint Victor rifle. Of these five, exactly one, the late 2018-production date RO in 45, have been anywhere near functional from the factory. The 9mm RO Operator won't even consider feeding JHP ammo, fails to go into battery with FMJ about 1-2 rounds out of every magazine, and the sights are regulated 6-8" high at 25 yards. The Hellcat was a jamming POS with a horrible trigger. The 911 would not shoot ANY 9mm of any profile reliably or accurately. The Saint Victor came out of the box with the castle nut completely loose, and shot 4-5" patterns at 25 yards, from the prone on a sled (verified by three different shooters). They all went back to SA under warranty, and all were deemed to be "in spec" and returned allegedly with no repairs. I sold all except the Operator at a hard loss with full disclosure of the issues I'd been having.

The 2018ish RO is generally OK - been reliable through semi-significant abuse, but the trigger is "meh" at best, and the accuracy is definitely not up to snuff for what I expect 1911s to be capable of (definitely less accurate than my DW CCO).

At this point, if I won a Springfield, I would give it to someone I REALLY disliked. I'm completely done with them - life is too short to deal with shitty guns.

<snip> ...

Put me on your short list, as I've had stellar results in a bone stock RO Elite in 9mm. The only mod I've done was an RDO for my aging eyes.


Sounds like you're contradicting your self. You start with saying your RO is ok except the trigger and accuracy isn't as good as a gun twice as expensive. Then say you haven't had good results with their 1911s. A 9mm 1911 is pretty hard for any company to get right 100% of the time so anytime one is bought, that should be understood.

Their milspecs have always been one of the best buys out there. They've never been known for poor quality or materials.

Own 2 of the RO's in 9....The Elite just runs, flawless, but like to be really lubed.
The other RO, well no issues beyond a non factory ambi, but it is not as accurate side by side with the Elite. Both have zero issues with any type of ammo as well.

I've owned 5 Springers in my lifetime:
2 Loaded, on stainless, one park'd.
A loaded champion lightweight in 45.
And now these two RO 9mms.

No real issues beyond Mag concerns.

I wish they'd offer a Champion sized Garrison. A blued one would be the cat's azz.

[CSW]

Anyone know what sight cut Springfield went with? Actual Novak cuts or their proprietary cut?

When I had rear irons on my RO Elite, I ordered the 10-8 rear for Springfield/Novak.

I just replaced the Front sight on the RO I had RMR'd....A Dawson for the Springfield/Novak cut.

Only the slightest fitting, which was only light sanding/thinning on the bottom of both front and rear. A touch of lock-tight under both, and I was good to go.

This was the email from Springer:

"Springfield used to use the standard Novak rear cut, but it's changed since after ~2002 to a smaller cut.
Front: 60° x .330" x .078"
Rear: 65° x ~.490"-.485" (this is just a smaller cut in the dovetail, which requires filing down the sight to fit)"

[RJ]

Just to wrap up this line of parts updates, I went to my local square range for some lead therapy today, and to validate the latest set of parts I replaced didn't cause any problems. They didn't. I shot 66 rounds of various drills with no issues.

At the end of the session, I had 8 rounds left, so I replaced the SA recoil spring with the WC 18.5 pound spring and shot a group. I didn't notice much more muzzle flip, but the slide did absolutely return to battery much, much more forcefully.

I ordered a few more spring options to play around with, and another couple types of ammo (a Winchester flat nose, and the JHP version of the S&B) to get some more data on pin load options. I'll leave the current springs in the gun and shoot some more when the new ammo comes in.

Never having had a 1911 before, it's interesting to fiddle with the gun. I enjoy it. It's why I bought the gun in the first place; to have the 1911 experience, and to understand how they work, by taking it apart and putting it back together. The shooting part is somewhat incidental.

[Robinson]

Put me on your short list, as I've had stellar results in a bone stock RO Elite in 9mm. The only mod I've done was an RDO for my aging eyes.



Own 2 of the RO's in 9....The Elite just runs, flawless, but like to be really lubed.
The other RO, well no issues beyond a non factory ambi, but it is not as accurate side by side with the Elite. Both have zero issues with any type of ammo as well.

I've owned 5 Springers in my lifetime:
2 Loaded, on stainless, one park'd.
A loaded champion lightweight in 45.
And now these two RO 9mms.

No real issues beyond Mag concerns.

I wish they'd offer a Champion sized Garrison. A blued one would be the cat's azz.

I currently own four SA Operator pistols:

Professional Operator 45
Operator 45 (latest version)
Lightweight Operator 45
RO Operator 9mm

Three of the four have not had any malfunctions to date. The Pro had two failures to feed in the first 100 rounds but has been solid ever since over many hundreds more. The 9mm is the big surprise, in that it just runs and runs. It doesn't have the hitch in the slide action due to the disconnect that many SA 9mm guns do.

I am struggling a bit with accuracy shooting the LW 45, but I'm pretty sure it's me and not the gun.

But my experience plus that of CSW and that of psalms144.1 just go to show that no production 1911 can really be assumed to be 100% out of the box. Chances are decent that you will get a good gun, but there is also a chance you will need to spend some time/money/effort to get the gun sorted out before it can be relied upon. But once a 1911 is sorted it typically can be counted on to work without much drama in my experience.

[fatdog]

to understand how they work, by taking it apart and putting it back together.

Engineer's disease. I am an armorer with a box of parts (mostly not certified since I am not LE) for every handgun and rifle platform I have owned the last 35 years. Getting ready to learn CZ. The Cajun gun works kit is in house now.

1911 is one where you will probably learn some parts fitting skills at some point, if you have not already, if you continue to tinker

[RJ]

Engineer's disease. I am an armorer with a box of parts (mostly not certified since I am not LE) for every handgun and rifle platform I have owned the last 35 years. Getting ready to learn CZ. The Cajun gun works kit is in house now.

1911 is one where you will probably learn some parts fitting skills at some point, if you have not already, if you continue to tinker


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGrH33uWCVk

:cool:

[JCN]

Engineer's disease. I am an armorer with a box of parts (mostly not certified since I am not LE) for every handgun and rifle platform I have owned the last 35 years. Getting ready to learn CZ. The Cajun gun works kit is in house now.

Just as a word of advice re: CZs to work someplace where small springy bits can be found easily if they launch or fall off.

The safety detent retention tabs and the sear spring tend to migrate.

[Jim Watson]

Jim, are you stoning the MIM sear to get that low of pull?

I have a 2005 MCOP with a horrible hitch in the trigger press. I put WC parts and it cleaned it up, but eventually I want to return the factory components.

Well, FLG actually did the work, but yes, it was a regular sear and hammer hook trigger job. Also sear spring but that was more because the factory spring was so coarse and sharp it was actually digging into the disconnector bevel and giving a hitch in slide closure. Polishing out the gouges and Colt sear spring fixed that and no doubt provided a tweak point on the trigger pull.

I did have to replace the extractor, the factory part did not hold tension.
I had to replace the slide stop because it started out giving premature slide lock due to bullet bump and I took off too much of the lobe and it would then sometimes fail to slide lock, unacceptable for IDPA.

But why do you want to go back to factory parts if Wilson bits work better? I was prepared to replace mine if FLG had not been able to get results with the factory.


Just as a word of advice re: CZs to work someplace where small springy bits can be found easily if they launch or fall off.

Years ago when the CZ75 first hit the Western World, a reviewer in an English publication (!) said he took his apart in a box with hand slots in the ends and a piece of Perspex over the top. Sure enough, he was soon rewarded with a Ping!

[SW CQB 45]

But why do you want to go back to factory parts if Wilson bits work better? I was prepared to replace mine if FLG had not been able to get results with the factory.

it's not my gun. It belongs to the dept I work for.

I bought the parts used and cheap just as a test. The WC parts are installed and are a huge improvement, and I had intentions of carry this 2005 model on duty, but I am now leaning on this gun as a range piece and just carry my personal 2008 on duty.

thats a WC trigger and WC hammer along with the other WC internals.

https://i.imgur.com/lKwR3ioh.jpg

and my ruffy duty carry

https://i.imgur.com/jYnSfp0h.jpg

[RJ]

I ordered a few more spring options to play around with, and another couple types of ammo (a Winchester flat nose, and the JHP version of the S&B) to get some more data on pin load options. I'll leave the current springs in the gun and shoot some more when the new ammo comes in.



Made it to the square range yesterday. As an ammo experiment, I had bought a box of 50 Winchester "Ready" Flat Nose 230 FMJ 880 fps (sku RED45) and 50 S&B 230 JHP 889 fps (sku SB45C). Gun still has the 18.5# WC recoil spring and factory 23# mainspring. Other non-factory parts include a WC BP ambi safety, WC flat bottom FPS and a WC extra power firing pin spring.

The Winchester ammo had 3 fail to chamber malfunctions during fire. The bullets just didn't go in. I also had 2 malfunctions, where it would not feed when being loaded (sling shot). This was with my CM RPM 8 rounders. This ammo is also very dirty and very smoky. Not going to order any of that again, that's for sure. The S&B hollow point had no issues, all 50 rounds went down range with no drama.

No problems with the 18.5# spring. I didn't do much in the way of metrics, but I played some with top of front sight hold versus combat hold. I did have two instances of locking up the slide stop, where I inadvertently push on the pin, and lock up the slide. Argh.

I'm happy with the 18.5# recoil + 23# mainspring combo, at least as much as I can be, with the very small number of rounds through the gun, and based on my very limited 1911 experience. I don't perceive any real ill effects on my shooting; I shoot about as well / poorly as I did previous to the spring change.

Overall, it was a good day, even though neither ammo worked out. And I learned the gun shoots to combat hold, with the FO front, which I prefer for irons, so that was a useful discovery. I still have trouble seeing the front sights, my arms aren't long enough these days. Gun is at 448 rounds.

I plan to standardize on Federal American Eagle 230 ball, and keep the S&B SB45A ball as backup, since the gun is cycling 100% with that ammo.

[LockedBreech]

I’m all set for stainless 1911s (Colt Government and Smith E-Series) but was browsing blued 1911s and this thread. Fiancée who usually doesn’t pay much mind to my gun browsing because “everything just looks like your Glocks or AR to me” (hey, fair enough) casually goes “oh that one is really nice, I wouldn’t mind having that one as my 1911.”

Not two weeks later (last Friday) she got a big raise at work and later that night when browsing gun stuff I saw the opportunity to put a new Garrison on layaway for absurdly cheap (about 630 with tax and shipping).

I’m not one to bite my thumb at the universe sending a clear message, so I’ve got one on order and I have time to holster shop. Valentines done except for dinner, thanks P-F.

Though I’m thinking I should let her pick the holster out rather than buying it for her. That sorta thing is personal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RJ]

Fitted a WC BP hammer and sear today. Learning has occurred.

99377

I refitted the SA safety, as I couldn’t manage to wriggle the WC Ambi safety back in. I’ll work that out in a day or two. It wasn’t too bad, overall. I’d bought a few tools but had most all of what I need. Very interesting to take the gun apart and get it back together. Took the opportunity to Flitz the rails slightly, as well as the trigger bow. They’re much smoother now. It’s not a Glock, that’s for sure.

[RJ]

Just a quick update on the Garrison; I've been learning a lot by taking it apart and installing parts myself. I'm very happy with how it is working and is is almost where I want it to be for The Pin Shoot in Michigan.

I've addressed the binding in the WC Ambi Safety by removing it and filing on the axle to ease fitment. It now operates very satisfactory with a mechanically pleasing snick snick action.

I replaced the trigger components (hammer, sear, disco) with WC BP parts. I am in the process of trying out a WC short trigger, and although now the reach is perfect, the gun needs some more tuning of the sear spring to reduce the trigger press. I got an average of 5 lbs 8.6 oz using my Lyman digital with 10 pulls yesterday, so it is pretty stout. To try and fix this, I have a Cylinder and Slide Lightened sear spring on order (supposed to drop press 1.5 lb), as well as a regular sear spring to mess around with (retaining the factory part unmodified) in case the C&S spring doesn't work out. My goal is around 4 to 4 1/2 lbs.

The last experiment is probably going to be a flat trigger. Right now I am looking into both the Chambers Custom CCO medium flat and Harrison Designs HD-105-N flat face.

I had a very odd result at this week's range session I also wanted to dive into. The target below is from "The Test(*)", * = 2 magazines, 5 rounds each. 78-0X is not particularly good for me, and I'm obviously off a bit in elevation. What worried me more however was the group shifting to the left. As a lefty, this almost never happens; when I am not paying attention to my grip, my group is always low and right. So shooting left was a bit of a shock.
100647

I sat down with the gun today and examined the sights. It appeared to me the rear sight was "off" a bit, so I got my HF caliper out to confirm. I measured a delta of about 0.030", left side to right. Meaning the rear sight was in fact off to the left slightly. It appears to have left the factory that way, as I've never noticed it before this week.

I was wondering what effect 0.030" would have on my poi at 10 yards, so I did a quick calculation:
100648

...the results of which seem to confirm what I am seeing; i.e. the poi is about 1.5" off of poa at 10 yards. Which is not a huge deal, but kind of annoying. I looked at the rear sight retaining screw (1/16 hex) on the top, and it was tight. I broke it free and pushed on the sight by hand, and it did not move. So the sight at least is in there good and tight. I went so far as to set up my rudimentary sight pusher tool on it, and it did not budge. I'll be looking at (relatively) low cost options to address this; the MGW310 at $115 at Brownell's being the leading candidate at the moment.

[Robinson]

RJ I have enjoyed your posts on this subject. I like seeing someone explore the possibilities and really learn about the 1911.

If it were me I would take the opportunity to install a Heinie Ledge rear sight since I have that rear sight on pretty much all of my guns. But that is a personal choice so carry on.

[Elwin]

If you're looking into flat triggers, I highly recommend the 10-8 Performance version. I have one in both of "my" 1911s ("wife's" has a Wilson short in it). I'm a huge fan, and any future 1911s will get one installed immediately.

In long shooting sessions the hole for an overtravel screw can start to blister my finger. The 10-8 trigger (as well as the Harrisons and likely others) doesn't have an adjustable overtravel and therefore has a solid face. I got the triggers for that and found I preferred them overall as well.

[RJ]

RJ I have enjoyed your posts on this subject. I like seeing someone explore the possibilities and really learn about the 1911.

If it were me I would take the opportunity to install a Heinie Ledge rear sight since I have that rear sight on pretty much all of my guns. But that is a personal choice so carry on.

Thanks! I'm amazed if what I write is interesting, being a complete noob to all this.

So this comment got me looking at sights (ha!) and what I have, vs what I could put on the gun, assuming I get a real sight pusher. In doing research online, it appears based on multiple sources the Springfield Garrison slide uses a Novak style, 65 degree cut for the rear. Armed with that information, I went looking for options and came back to the Harrison Designs rear sight (just an option, there are many). I'm looking at plain black, one of these:

https://shop.harrisoncustom.com/rear-sights-for-the-novak-style-cut

But what height to pick? I got my calipers out again, and confirmed the rear on my gun is 0.325" tall, and has a 0.125" notch (they may be Novak rears, for all I know). Anyway, I busted out my sight elevation calculator tool, took an estimate of how much I was off in elevation using the same target, and plugged in the numbers:
100666

It would seem that to fix my problem, besides correcting the position of the rear sight on the gun, I probably could benefit by switching to a 0.350" tall rear. This would correspond to the Harrison HD-004.5-S, with a useful square 0.140" notch. (I'm focusing on the rear because I have and like the Dawson FO I have on the front, and I have to mess with the rear anyway.

Thanks for the tip on the Heinie Ledge's, I'll go have a look at their web site armed with this information.

ETA: I didn’t find a Heinie Ledge at 0.350, but did locate a 10 8 option.

https://www.10-8performance.com/1911-2011-low-mount-rear-sight/

[Robinson]

Rich, yes the Heinie Ledge is available in either .325 or .375 heights. The .325 height typically can replace a Novak Lo-Mount rear sight as they are also a .325 height.

I am using the Heinie Ledge on a couple of my Springfield Armory Operator pistols and that arrangement works well for me so far. But if your gun is shooting low then going to a .350 might be a better option for you. Harrison and 10-8 both offer excellent parts.

[RJ]

Installed the C&S Lightened Sear spring today. Holy smokes.
100730

So that’s about a minus 1.75 lbs over what I had, using a 10 pull average on my Lyman digital. The difference in dry fire is…startling. Looking forward to getting it to the range.

[Archer1440]

I'll be looking at (relatively) low cost options to address this; the MGW310 at $115 at Brownell's being the leading candidate at the moment.

Lots of people here have posted positive feedback about the “Wyoming sight tool” which is basically a spring loaded punch. I haven’t used one myself, but I have the impression it works well and is reasonably priced.

I have an MGW Sight Pro and a plenitude of different slide shoes for the thing, but there are times when a proper punch and hammer are more than enough for a quick adjustment.

[Evil_Ed]

Installed the C&S Lightened Sear spring today. Holy smokes.
100730

So that’s about a minus 1.75 lbs over what I had, using a 10 pull average on my Lyman digital. The difference in dry fire is…startling. Looking forward to getting it to the range.

Be careful with that when you go to the range to test it. Don't load more than 2-3 rounds in a mag until you can be SURE it's not going to double or even full-auto on you, between the weight of the trigger itself, if anything gets stuck or bounces off, etc. Yes, you can get triggers down to absurdly low weights with 1911s, but it's a balancing act...

[LockedBreech]

Picking up my Garrison today or tomorrow. It was originally for Valentine's Day, but her birthday is this week and I'm kinda tempted to switch some presents around to check it out sooner.

While I did not pick magazines or holsters yet (going to give her color/material options from good quality brands), I did luck into 50-round boxes of 230-grain HST for 74 cents a round yesterday. Grabbed 200 because I don't think I've seen it below $1.20 a round for a hot minute. Nice to see ammo costs getting mildly less horrible.

[RJ]

Be careful with that when you go to the range to test it. Don't load more than 2-3 rounds in a mag until you can be SURE it's not going to double or even full-auto on you, between the weight of the trigger itself, if anything gets stuck or bounces off, etc. Yes, you can get triggers down to absurdly low weights with 1911s, but it's a balancing act...

Thanks. This excellent post deserves more than just a "like", due to it's safety implications for me as a new 1911 owner. I was aware of the potential consequences of inserting parts leading to an unanticipated loud repetitive noises when I installed the new sear, hammer and disconnector prior to my last range session with them. To that end, I loaded the mags I planned to start with 2 rounds, only, for exactly this reason. I really didn't want the gun to go full auto on me. That would not be good. This is one of the reasons I picked all Wilson Combat Bulletproof Parts; not because they are "the best", but because I had a reasonable expectation based on their reputation they would be machined and finished to a safe, consistent and effective standard of quality.

I did wonder a bit about the weight I got, despite it being an average of 10 presses. I noticed being left handed, I had the Lyman "hook" in an S shape (if you have one you know what I mean). I rotated the hook 180 and remeasured the gun. The resulting "C" shape (to me) felt more like a solid measurement and (I thought) would reduce the axial component of force on the transducer. I also made sure and ran the slide each time, vs. cocking the hammer. Anyway, the new technique felt weird since I was doing it "right handed", but I did get a new result of 3 lbs 14.3 oz (3.894 lbs decimal). Which, I think being pretty close to 4 lbs, unless something really weird happens at the range in live fire, I'm going to stop there. I think 4 lbs seems ok to me for a competition, range use only gun. For dang sure it feels a lot better than 5 and a half.

[RJ]

As an item on my "task book" list of learning, I swapped out the SA 23 lb mainspring with a WC reduced power 19 lb mainspring today. I heard of this from a Hilton Yam video where he likes either the 23/18.5 main/recoil combo, or the 19/17 main/recoil combo. After this swap I now have the 19/17 setup in the gun. Anyway, I had been wanting to learn more about the MSH housing and how it works for a while.

Nothing special on the R/R: I clamped the Grip Safety with a big rubber band, pressed out the pin and slid the MSH out. I used an Armorer's block for this, vs a vise. Mine has a really convenient square area with a plastic "pin" sticking up, just the right size for compressing the mainspring, while you push the teeny retaining pin out. Going back in I just flipped the MSH 180, offered the pin up, and gently pushed the MSH back down until the pin slipped in. It was surprisingly straightforward.

Rechecking trigger pull I got an average of 10 at 3.64 lbs, so a bit lighter. I'm not sure if the reduction of 0.25 lb from what I got yesterday is is within the margin of measurement for my tool/gun, or the new reduced power mainspring. I am ok either way, since this is a range only gun; I don't think I'd like to go lower than that. The slide is slightly easier to rack, which makes sense. Plan is to get to the range in the current configuration later next week; we are off for some camping this weekend in the trailer.

100748

[RJ]

For possible future reference, I did take a group picture of the two new sear springs and the SA OEM part.

100753

Top is the new WC (not bullet proof) sear spring, middle is the Cylinder and Slide part, and bottom is the spring that came out of the gun. The most noticeable physical difference is the "prongs" (sear, left; disconnector, middle) for lack of a better word on the C&S sear. The thinner metal contributes to a lower spring rate, despite being bent to essentially the same shape. Interesting the grip safety prong (right most) was quite a bit closer in the SA OEM part, than the WC or C&S (the C&S is facing camera, or you'd see the bend better). The grip safety on this gun has always worked satisfactorily.

[RJ]

Lots of people here have posted positive feedback about the “Wyoming sight tool” which is basically a spring loaded punch. I haven’t used one myself, but I have the impression it works well and is reasonably priced.

I have an MGW Sight Pro and a plenitude of different slide shoes for the thing, but there are times when a proper punch and hammer are more than enough for a quick adjustment.

Thanks for the tip, I'll look into that. Sure would be cheaper than a new Rangemaster Compact and a shoe. Plus a new sight. I could live with elevation delta by adjusting hold on the target but it would be nice if I could just skoosh the rear over 0.030" and call it a day. I may just put the slide in my vise and have a go with a brass punch and a steel 16 oz hammer. I've already put some "experience marks" on the factory rear anyways due to the jury-rig setup I used the other day, so what the heck.

[Trooper224]

Thanks for the tip, I'll look into that. Sure would be cheaper than a new Rangemaster Compact and a shoe. Plus a new sight. I could live with elevation delta by adjusting hold on the target but it would be nice if I could just skoosh the rear over 0.030" and call it a day. I may just put the slide in my vise and have a go with a brass punch and a steel 16 oz hammer. I've already put some "experience marks" on the factory rear anyways due to the jury-rig setup I used the other day, so what the heck.

Do yourself a favor and invest in a sight pusher.

[RJ]

Finally got to shoot the gun in the current configuration. I had bumped the rear sight right by 0.030", and wanted to check some other things out. I had ordered some Federal Hi Shok 230 gr Hollow Point, as a new potential pin ammo, which arrived this week.

Other changes included yet another set of G10 grips, in black (ok, but still a bit slippery. Working on another option now.) I'd put in a Wolff #1 spring in the mag release from a spring pak assortment, and stoned the working surface of the flat-bottom firing pin stop. Oh and the 17# recoil / 19# hammer combo. But mostly I wanted to check out the change in trigger weight resulting from the new Cylinder and Slide Lightened Sear Spring I put in.

101184

I shot 32 rounds of the new Federal, and 30 of the S&B 230 Ball. No malfunctions. I used my three WC #47C mags. Did a 12 round 10 8 Extractor Test (6 2H, 3 WH, 3 SH.) All rounds ejected over my right shoulder. I shot “The Test (2*5)” for a 92-4X. (4X!!! WOOHOO!!!) I had two called flyers on The Test, otherwise all the rounds would have been in the black. This is very good for me with irons. I shot Level 1 FYL at 5 yd, for a 9/10. Other targets included a new four 1" square target I devised, to work on small targets. And a B-8 or two.

The trigger...woah. It felt like taking off a straightjacket. Almost 2 pounds off factory is an astonishing difference. Today it was, see sight picture, will the trigger back, BOOM!, hole appears under front sight. It was THAT big of a change for me. I think I'm finally understanding this whole "1911 trigger" thing. Wow.

The Federal Hi Shok is accurate, feels good, punches nice holes, and has no real difference in felt recoil compared with the S&B, to be honest. It might not be the current thing for a carry load, but for the pins, I think it will do ok. All groups on all targets were centered in windage; each group had the same number rounds left of center, as right. I mean, I started looking through my previous targets, and ALL of them show a marked tendency to be on the left side. So with the small change in position, the gun is now good to go. With the FO front set at Factory Height (0.180"), elevation was good. I mean, I am no fantastic shooter, but I think I will change sights at this point. I need to run the targets out to 25 to see how my longer range groups are, and confirm top of front sight or dot hold. At 5 yards, it didn't matter so much, I'll be interested though for academic reasons. I don't see a problem putting rounds center of a pin at 7 yards if I do my part.

I REALLY like how the gun is operating now.

101185

[RJ]

...Working on another option now.)



...which arrived today from vcdgrips. Black, tapered bottom. I installed them with a couple flat-head screws, no issues with fit. Torqued to about 8 in lb with my Wheeler.

101501

I'd seen some comments, not sure where, that the VCD grip surface was a bit rough. I don't know, maybe it's the fact I had Talon Granulate on my Glock 34, and got used to it, but it doesn't feel all that bad to me. Just very firm, and non-moving, in dry practice. I think if I still had the normal long trigger installed, I might have an issue with trigger reach. Since I went to short trigger pads, the combination of normal grip and short trigger seems ok. My finger is flat on the trigger at any rate.

Looking forward to getting to the range soon. Thanks David!

Speaking of triggers, you will have noticed the flat trigger. I'd wanted to try one, so I ordered a Thunder Mountain Custom 1911 Ultralight Premium Match Grade Flat Trigger, Short Pad, in silver. The shoe required fitting to 0.9165”; the same as the Wilson curved shoe. I took off material with my Grobet #4, about 40 strokes total. This took 45 minutes of trial, fit, file, measure, trial fit, file, measure, etc.. 75% of the material came off the upper side 75%, about 25% off the lower. After filing, I burnished the flats mirror smooth with 800/2000 and put Lot-tite (blue) on the overtravel screw proud 1 thread, same setting as the SA Shoe. The original factory Springer shoe was 0.9125” high, and very loose in the trigger bow track. This new flat trigger is very snug, no lost motion, and moves straight back.

101500

While I had the gun apart, I dressed the 45 chamfer/polished the forward end of disco rail. I also polished the disco paddle and nose. I had been feeling some binding on the rear travel of the slide, so I spent 20" with some Flitz eliminating most of the felt slight hitches. This resulted in completely smooth motion over the normal travel of slide.

[Robinson]

I'd seen some comments, not sure where, that the VCD grip surface was a bit rough. I don't know, maybe it's the fact I had Talon Granulate on my Glock 34, and got used to it, but it doesn't feel all that bad to me.

I've got VCD Grips on a bunch of my 1911s and I don't find them too rough either. VZ Grips are really nice too, but the G10 material is a bit heavier. Simple wood stocks with full checkering or well made plastic/rubber grips are what I always use.

By the way in case anyone is interested, VZ now offers a set of polymer 1911 grips. I will probably order a set to try at some point.

Still enjoying your thread Rich!

[vcdgrips]

Re roughness of the grip panel:

I have been hit/miss re enclosing a piece of sandpaper to "true" my grips.

I will endeavor to do better going forward.

Thank you all for your business, recently and over the years.

DB

PS- VZ makes an excellent product. They are particularly honorable folks as exemplified in the link below:
https://vzgrips.com/products/simonich-gunner-full-size-1911-grips.html

[RJ]

...This new flat trigger is very snug, no lost motion...



...or so I thought. I got back from the square range this week (had an interesting malfunction; but I will wait to post about that until I get to the bottom of it with another range session next week) and was noticing a lot of slop in the trigger. Not only was there a good bit of pre-travel, but quite a lot of lost motion in the trigger shoe before it even reached the break.

After some research, I found out apparently these triggers are setup to remove pre-travel, having two teeny "bendable" tabs milled in to the bow. If you push out on the tabs, they add some padding (for lack of a better word) to the front of the travel, taking up motion. Moving the trigger rearward, at rest, is another way to say it. Anyway, news to me.

Before I got to bending on it though, I measured some distances from the frame curve to the front of the trigger shoe, thusly:

- Max (as in, the farthest forward the trigger would go, slop and all) - 0.290"
- Min (as in, the distance the trigger was at, as it reached the spring tension - 0.265"

For me, I just wanted to remove the slop, so about 0.030" was my goal. I proceeded to tweak the ears out a teeny bit with a small flat blade, eyeballing thirty thousandths (area I adjusted is in the red circle):
102269

I must have lucked out, because all the slop was removed. I guess I could take out "all" the pretravel (I'd need another 0.020") but I think I'll leave it as is for now. At least I know how to do it now.

Oh and I had two bonus rounds of "find the 1911 part". First was the plunger spring tube assembly, which enthusiastically bounced off my chest and caromed onto the floor under my desk as I removed the LH TS piece. It (of course) hid in the rough area of the carpet I have, which is inconveniently black and gray. Second was the Magazine Catch Lock, which I caught a brief glimpse of, arcing gracefully in the air, to land in the vicinity of my plastic potted plant, and on top of my coffee mug coaster. Only lost about 20 minutes. I'll need to do a better job of keeping these corralled, or maybe better, just buy some spares in my next order.

[Robinson]

RJ - that post cracked me up. Been there done that. Learned some hand positioning that more or less prevents those parts from sproinging into the atmosphere.

[Trooper224]

Disassembly inside a plastic bag or a box goes a long way towards preventing said frustrations. How do I know this? 🤔

[Totem Polar]

vcdgrips, that was a classy post. Thanks for brightening my day up.

Carry on, all.

[MountainRaven]

[snip]

Changes:

Right now I'm only considering a few cosmetic changes and functional changes:

Swap the hex grip screws for slotted

Swap silver barrel bushing for blued (possibly EGW angle bore)

Swap front sight for FO, gold bead or gold line

Swap FCG for Harrison Design parts including Commander style hammer (or maybe just the hammer)

Swap the pins for nitre blued (if I do, I'll include the grip screws as well)

Grip tape or Wilson checkering strip on the front strap instead of sending it out for checkering
[snip]

Did you ever get around to putting in a Harrison Commander-style hammer?

[awp_101]

Did you ever get around to putting in a Harrison Commander-style hammer?

No I didn't. Actually I just dropped it off at my LGS for him to sell it on consignment. Nothing against it, I just can't do much .45 anymore and I've got nicer/more interesting 1911s in the safe so it's time to turn it into something else.

[UNK]

It was driving me nuts, knowing I had seen one of these before...and I had - the Colt Competition series of guns :) Less than a grand, too...though Springfield comes in maybe a hundred bucks less. While I'm not sure the Colt would be worth a hundred more, I'm not sure it wouldn't be, either; if that makes any sense...

I'd also trust Colt more to get it right out of the box, and to use standard sight cuts (Novak front and rear); I know Springfield likes to use their own cuts for sights on some models. But YMMV...Colts seem to be more difficult to find these days?

To me the high cut on the front strap makes the Colt worth more. I havent kept up with the 1911 world in some time so if Springfield is doing the high cut then I stand corrected.

[MK11]

My Colt Competition was a train wreck out at first. Zero extractor tension and a mushy safety that practically rotated to the mag well. It's run great since a trip back to Colt (and the undercut is pretty sweet) but I stopped listening to the folks who were saying, "These are the best guns Colt has made in 30 years."

My Springfield Ronin on the other hand has run pretty well. It doesn't like 115 grain ammo but has been fine with 124 grain ball and Gold Dots. Fit and finish are better than the Colt and while I'm sure its full of cheap parts that need upgrading, it's been the better performer out of the box.

[RJ]

...or so I thought. I got back from the square range this week (had an interesting malfunction; but I will wait to post about that until I get to the bottom of it with another range session next week)

...which seems to have occurred again today:
102472

So, I think I'll work back from the conclusion: I am going to stop pushing the rope of making hollow points work in this gun, and shoot ball ammo for The Pin Shoot.

Last week, I had changed springs (main/recoil) back to stock (23# main/16# recoil) to evaluate the gun with the Federal Hi-Shok 230. It was a train wreck at the range. Almost every mag, I had a fail to chamber malfunction. Back at home, I swapped the springs back to the config I had no issue with (19#/17#). To check that out before I hit live fire again, I took one round, and chambered it 15 times, using three different mag types, 5 round each (interesting to me the COAL started with 1.215; after I'd completed this round of testing the COAL of that cartridge was 1.178. I mean, it was noticeably shorter. So, set back is a thing.)

Today I thought I was on a good run but I had a stoppage on round 36, the one shown above. The front of the case is jammed up against the feedramp. While I was pondering this, I swapped in the 18.5 recoil spring I'd brought along. I was still thinking about it so I decided to run some S&B 230 ball through. No issues.

But what struck me was how smoothly the ball ammo felt, compared to the HP. I mean, with the Federal, there is this KERCHUNK that takes place that I can both feel and hear. I am assuming this is the flat part of the mouth hitting the feedway. At any rate the ball ammo being smoother, it feeds right in without this drama. Bottom line I don't think this round is quite the best match for this gun, in terms of reliable feeding. If I have just one stoppage on a stage, it's going to ruin the match for me. So while I appreciate that a hollow point bullet may "catch" the pin more than a FMJ profile, the HP ammo I can afford just isn't working out.

Other than the ammo, really liking how things are working with the gun. The flat trigger is great, the lack of take up means it's fairly crisp, but I still have a little slop before the wall to deal with. I shot 10 rounds, slow fire at 25 yards, 2 handed unsupported for a 79-0x, not bad for me. I used a top of front sight hold, but looking at the target the Garrison might be a 6 o'clock hold kind of gun. At least with the HP.
102473

[RJ]

Forgot to add picture of setback. Cartridge at right, chambered 15 times. Cartridge at left, out of the box.
102474

[Totem Polar]

Forgot to add picture of setback. Cartridge at right, chambered 15 times. Cartridge at left, out of the box.
102474

Hmm. That’s… noticeable.

[Robinson]

RJ - I'm a little surprised you are having trouble with hollow points feeding in your Garrison. I favor HST for my guns and it runs fine in both the 45s and the 9mms.

I think I have a few hundred rounds of the Hi-Shok ammo around somewhere -- I think I will load some mags with it for my next range trip to see if my Springfield 45s have any trouble with it. One is a Professional Operator and I don't expect it to have any issues, but the other is just a production Operator. It feeds HST fine but I'll let you know if it does okay with the Hi-Shok stuff. Isn't Hi-Shok pretty close to the old Hydra-Shok only without the center post in the bullet?

[RJ]

For purposes of comparison, I took this picture of the current ammo I have in my box.

102478

From left to right, 1 through 4, they are: (Price is per round I paid)

1 - S&B 45 Auto, #SB45A (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=SB45A) 230 FMJ ($0.48)
2 - Federal Hi-Shok #45D (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=45D) , 230 JHP ($0.55)
3 - Hornady Custom 45 Auto+p 230 gr XTP #9096 ($1.45)
4 - .45 ACP 250 Berry FP/TMJ 7.1 grains Accurite#5 (Birthday gift from my son, who has a Dillon :) )

As above, the only cartridge I have had issues with is the Federal (#2). Albeit I did not shoot much of the Hornady as it made my wallet squeal, 20 rounds of it worked fine (pretty zippy it was, too). I've only shot about 5 of the reloads, will have to do that again. The S&B I maybe have 150 rounds with, no issues. Hmmmm.

[NPV]

The Hi-Shock runs ok in my warmed over Colt, and prints decent groups at 25y. Though nothing spectacular despite all of the accuracy claims (though honestly there’s a chance it was me as I don’t shoot rested ever).

5 @ 25y
102501

[RJ]

RJ - I'm a little surprised you are having trouble with hollow points feeding in your Garrison. I favor HST for my guns and it runs fine in both the 45s and the 9mms.

I think I have a few hundred rounds of the Hi-Shok ammo around somewhere -- I think I will load some mags with it for my next range trip to see if my Springfield 45s have any trouble with it. One is a Professional Operator and I don't expect it to have any issues, but the other is just a production Operator. It feeds HST fine but I'll let you know if it does okay with the Hi-Shok stuff. Isn't Hi-Shok pretty close to the old Hydra-Shok only without the center post in the bullet?

Hey thanks, I appreciate it. Be interesting to compare.

So I went on the Federal web site and downloaded an image of the Federal Personal Defense HST P45HST2S cartridge, and did a graphical comparison with my drawing tool by eye of the visible bullet dimensions. The red arrow dimension lines are identical, and overlaid on the HST (Far left) and Hi-Shok (middle round of three, right hand side in picture).

I mean, I don't have an actual HST round to inspect, but it looks like the ogive profile of the Federal HP rounds are about the same? Meaning whatever is causing the thump/KERCHUNK during feed operation with the Hi Shok is probably going to happen with the HST? I suspicion it is the wide case mouth of the bullet's hollow point area, which is contacting the feedway, stopping the round from going in. I dunno.

At least I don't think for me it's worth the expense of purchasing HST rounds (last priced $0.96 a round from Lucky Gunner Dec '22), strictly to vet for a competition. "Juice not worth the squeeze" and all that. I'm obviously not saying the HST isn't a verified and respected self-defense round, it just doesn't make any sense to me to spend the money, when I can go back to Federal American Eagle 230 ball and not have this problem, and get on with working on shot placement.

As a footnote, I am running what most consider reference grade magazines; Wilson Combat 7 round #47 (the 47C with steel basepad) and 8 round Elite Tactical Mags, and Chip McCormick Railed Power Mags. My stoppages don't seem tied to any of these magazines, I've had these malfunctions with each. Recall the previous malfunctions I had with Winchester READY flat nose bullet were almost exactly the same; 3 feedway stoppages in a box of 50 rounds.


I do have to say though oddly I'm getting a kick out of going on this journey of ammo selection, as I find this stuff interesting. And it's a large part of why I bought a 1911 in the first place, to learn about this stuff.

102524

[Shorikid]

Hey thanks, I appreciate it. Be interesting to compare.

So I went on the Federal web site and downloaded an image of the Federal Personal Defense HST P45HST2S cartridge, and did a graphical comparison with my drawing tool by eye of the visible bullet dimensions. The red arrow dimension lines are identical, and overlaid on the HST (Far left) and Hi-Shok (middle round of three, right hand side in picture).

I mean, I don't have an actual HST round to inspect, but it looks like the ogive profile of the Federal HP rounds are about the same? Meaning whatever is causing the thump/KERCHUNK during feed operation with the Hi Shok is probably going to happen with the HST? I suspicion it is the wide case mouth of the bullet's hollow point area, which is contacting the feedway, stopping the round from going in. I dunno.

At least I don't think for me it's worth the expense of purchasing HST rounds (last priced $0.96 a round from Lucky Gunner Dec '22), strictly to vet for a competition. "Juice not worth the squeeze" and all that. I'm obviously not saying the HST isn't a verified and respected self-defense round, it just doesn't make any sense to me to spend the money, when I can go back to Federal American Eagle 230 ball and not have this problem, and get on with working on shot placement.

As a footnote, I am running what most consider reference grade magazines; Wilson Combat 7 round #47 (the 47C with steel basepad) and 8 round Elite Tactical Mags, and Chip McCormick Railed Power Mags. My stoppages don't seem tied to any of these magazines, I've had these malfunctions with each. Recall the previous malfunctions I had with Winchester READY flat nose bullet were almost exactly the same; 3 feedway stoppages in a box of 50 rounds.


I do have to say though oddly I'm getting a kick out of going on this journey of ammo selection, as I find this stuff interesting. And it's a large part of why I bought a 1911 in the first place, to learn about this stuff.

102524How is the extractor tension and profile? I've had too much tension/deflection cause some hesitation in feeding. Certain hollowpoints being worse than ball ammo in all cases.

Sent from my SM-A536U1 using Tapatalk

[RJ]

How is the extractor tension and profile? I've had too much tension/deflection cause some hesitation in feeding. Certain hollowpoints being worse than ball ammo in all cases.

Sent from my SM-A536U1 using Tapatalk

I can certainly look at that, albeit I have almost zip for experience in what should be correct tension other than what I've read.

I replaced the SA extractor fairly early on (Nov 22). From my log: Installed WC BP Extractor. NB: SA Firing Pin Stop loose to fit; very imprecise. New WC extractor has wider hook. Tested with snap camp, retention under hook is much more positive. No tuning performed on Extractor, installed box stock out of package. Used Dawson tool.

I'm not hopeful since I don't have the skill or experience to fiddle with it a whole lot. Leaving it be and shooting FMJ seems like a more reliable plan at the moment. Of course I have 300 rounds of Hi-Shok I can play with now, so I got that going for me. :cool:

[NPV]

@RJ

I think HST has a slightly different ogive.
102534
102535

[RJ]

@RJ

I think HST has a slightly different ogive.



Thanks, I'm sure you are right, those are good pictures. Which is the HST? The left one?


Anyway, I found some change down the back of the couch, so I ordered a box to try along with moar AE from TargetSportsUSA. $0.80 a round I might be able to handle, if it runs. We'll see how this goes. :cool:
102536

[NPV]

Thanks, I'm sure you are right, those are good pictures. Which is the HST? The left one?


Anyway, I found some change down the back of the couch, so I ordered a box to try along with moar AE from TargetSportsUSA. $0.80 a round I might be able to handle, if it runs. We'll see how this goes. :cool:
102536

Yes HST is on the left, the ogive looks a little more tapered and less round if that makes sense. Also the hollow point opening is a little more rounded on the HST whereas the Hi-Shok has almost sharp edges. FWIW I’ve been carrying HSTs in 1911s for 7 years and it’s one round I’ve never had an issue with in any of my guns.

[SW CQB 45]

As LE and an instructor, we teach not to reload the same round over and over as bullet push or set back will occur, no matter the gun.

I was always under the impression that case cannelure was to minimize bullet set back.

Remembering ammo back from the 80s, the case cannelure was heavy.

the round you posted a picture of, the indentation around the case belong the bullet is a poor representation of what case cannelure used to be.

quantity over quality


I download and reload my duty carry MCOP a lot. before I reload, the loose round that came from the chamber will be placed in another mag after I strip 2 or 3 off.

about every quarter, (unless I went to shoot and my mags got dirty/wet), I will strip my mags down to clean them. the rounds get mixed up.

I shoot my duty ammo every year, sometimes twice. Quals are next week YAY!

230 Gold Dot

[Trooper224]

As LE and an instructor, we teach not to reload the same round over and over as bullet push or set back will occur, no matter the gun.

I was always under the impression that case cannelure was to minimize bullet set back.

Remembering ammo back from the 80s, the case cannelure was heavy.

the round you posted a picture of, the indentation around the case belong the bullet is a poor representation of what case cannelure used to be.

quantity over quality


I download and reload my duty carry MCOP a lot. before I reload, the loose round that came from the chamber will be placed in another mag after I strip 2 or 3 off.

about every quarter, (unless I went to shoot and my mags got dirty/wet), I will strip my mags down to clean them. the rounds get mixed up.

I shoot my duty ammo every year, sometimes twice. Quals are next week YAY!

230 Gold Dot

For me, one of the advantages of having dedicated training and carry guns is, the carry gun rarely gets unloaded. So, bullet set back isn't an issue. I typically cycle rounds out for chewed up case rims rather than bullet set back.

[SW CQB 45]

For me, one of the advantages of having dedicated training and carry guns is, the carry gun rarely gets unloaded. So, bullet set back isn't an issue. I typically cycle rounds out for chewed up case rims rather than bullet set back.

I tried to go that route but ran into issues.

https://i.imgur.com/wjGrw8zh.jpg

The dept I work for ended up with a MCOP through the disposal of property. It was issued to me (since I am the lone .45)

Everything was going well, and I wanted to shoot it a lot before I put it on the street. I bent the shit out of the extractor (it was not fitted) and destined to fail, however the pistol ran when I got it, so I kept pumping rounds through it.

Since it's not my property, I had to go through some red tape to get an ffffn extractor and FPS purchased for this.

I got WCBP components, and this was the hardest extractor install I have ever done. It was hitting brass (the reason the first one failed) and a smith told me the extractor was too long and needed to be set back. So, either the 2005 MCOP had something out of spec, or the WC extractor was out of spec. Here comes the red tape again to get another. To set the extractor back is out of my abilities and time. So, I kept working with it and I got it running but pretty much parked it as the factory trigger press developed a horrible hitch. I parked it as a spare dry fire unit (I put some old WC trigger components I had laying around to clean up the hitch). I won't use it for duty.

[Trooper224]

I tried to go that route but ran into issues.

https://i.imgur.com/wjGrw8zh.jpg

The dept I work for ended up with a MCOP through the disposal of property. It was issued to me (since I am the lone .45)

Everything was going well, and I wanted to shoot it a lot before I put it on the street. I bent the shit out of the extractor (it was not fitted) and destined to fail, however the pistol ran when I got it, so I kept pumping rounds through it.

Since it's not my property, I had to go through some red tape to get an ffffn extractor and FPS purchased for this.

I got WCBP components, and this was the hardest extractor install I have ever done. It was hitting brass (the reason the first one failed) and a smith told me the extractor was too long and needed to be set back. So, either the 2005 MCOP had something out of spec, or the WC extractor was out of spec. Here comes the red tape again to get another. To set the extractor back is out of my abilities and time. So, I kept working with it and I got it running but pretty much parked it as the factory trigger press developed a horrible hitch. I parked it as a spare dry fire unit (I put some old WC trigger components I had laying around to clean up the hitch). I won't use it for duty.

I remember you documenting your heartache with that gun. That has to be beyond frustrating. The gun problems wouldn't be a hard fix, but the bureaucracy sounds nose bleed inducing. I've used Wilson extractors for years without issue. Two within the last year, in fact. You never know when the tolerance Fairey's going to show up.

[Shorikid]

I can certainly look at that, albeit I have almost zip for experience in what should be correct tension other than what I've read.

I replaced the SA extractor fairly early on (Nov 22). From my log: Installed WC BP Extractor. NB: SA Firing Pin Stop loose to fit; very imprecise. New WC extractor has wider hook. Tested with snap camp, retention under hook is much more positive. No tuning performed on Extractor, installed box stock out of package. Used Dawson tool.

I'm not hopeful since I don't have the skill or experience to fiddle with it a whole lot. Leaving it be and shooting FMJ seems like a more reliable plan at the moment. Of course I have 300 rounds of Hi-Shok I can play with now, so I got that going for me. :cool:RJ,

Takes time to do it. I've milled a couple of extractors in the learning process. And I've definitely over tensioned them before. Hesitation during feeding and excessive set back of the bullet since it crashes into the feed ramp.

Try this https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?url=https://www.1911forum.com/threads/steve-in-allentown-extractor-fitting.829865/&share_tid=829865&share_fid=20522&share_type=t&link_source=app

Hope that works.

Sent from my SM-A536U1 using Tapatalk

[RJ]

RJ,

Takes time to do it. I've milled a couple of extractors in the learning process. And I've definitely over tensioned them before. Hesitation during feeding and excessive set back of the bullet since it crashes into the feed ramp.

Try this https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?url=https://www.1911forum.com/threads/steve-in-allentown-extractor-fitting.829865/&share_tid=829865&share_fid=20522&share_type=t&link_source=app

Hope that works.

Sent from my SM-A536U1 using Tapatalk

Excellent, thanks. I will head down that rabbit hole. Back in a while.

[Shorikid]

Excellent, thanks. I will head down that rabbit hole. Back in a while.Good luck RJ. Extractor fitting/tension is something every 1911 owner needs to at least try their hand at.

Sent from my SM-A536U1 using Tapatalk

[RJ]

I am looking for options to replace the original front sight on my SA Garrison. It's currently a steel white dot, 0.180" tall x 0.125" wide sight, with a 60 degree dovetail. I found a white/tritium sight by Dawson that seems to fit the bill:

105694

Any other good options out there for a SA front dovetail? I'm ok with white but would prefer orange due to my eyesight picking it up better. I like the Trijicon HD set, but they seem to be Novak cut (65 degree?) and at $170 for a set, are a bit spendy for me.

[RJ]

Good luck RJ. Extractor fitting/tension is something every 1911 owner needs to at least try their hand at.

Sent from my SM-A536U1 using Tapatalk

I did want to say thanks for the reference info.

For anyone else interested, what I ended up doing was numerically measure the extractor tension using my Lyman digital trigger gauge on a spent .45 cartridge wedged in under the rim. I connected the gauge and case rim with a short length of dental floss, allowing me to pull the case out. The average of the first three pulls was 51 oz. I loosened Extractor in a vise. The average of the next three pulls was 29 oz.

Weigand sells a extractor deflection tool, and in his instructions he lists ideal tension on a gauge as 25-28 oz. Since I got 29, I concluded it was "close enough" and stopped there. Subjectively the "feel" of a case placed in the slide seems to match all the online videos I see using the "shake" test.

105695

[03RN]

I tried to go that route but ran into issues.

https://i.imgur.com/wjGrw8zh.jpg

The dept I work for ended up with a MCOP through the disposal of property. It was issued to me (since I am the lone .45)

Everything was going well, and I wanted to shoot it a lot before I put it on the street. I bent the shit out of the extractor (it was not fitted) and destined to fail, however the pistol ran when I got it, so I kept pumping rounds through it.

Since it's not my property, I had to go through some red tape to get an ffffn extractor and FPS purchased for this.

I got WCBP components, and this was the hardest extractor install I have ever done. It was hitting brass (the reason the first one failed) and a smith told me the extractor was too long and needed to be set back. So, either the 2005 MCOP had something out of spec, or the WC extractor was out of spec. Here comes the red tape again to get another. To set the extractor back is out of my abilities and time. So, I kept working with it and I got it running but pretty much parked it as the factory trigger press developed a horrible hitch. I parked it as a spare dry fire unit (I put some old WC trigger components I had laying around to clean up the hitch). I won't use it for duty.

SW CQB 45

Which magwell is on the mcop on the left? Is that a lanyard loop on it?

[Robinson]

I am looking for options to replace the original front sight on my SA Garrison.

So, you had a fiber optic front sight installed but went back to the original white dot? Curious why you replaced the fiber optic sight, since you are looking for something more visible than the white dot?

Anyway, I've installed Dawson front sights on several Springfield Armory guns and they work well. For the price, the Dawson sights are hard to beat. I've always gone with the .170" height though, paired with a Heinie Ledge rear sight.

[SW CQB 45]

SW CQB 45

Which magwell is on the mcop on the left? Is that a lanyard loop on it?

SACS installed in 2009

It was a no hole S&A where I sent them an image of the sides tapered and a lanyard loop machined pocket and requested those mods.

SACS drilled the hole for a tight no gap fit.

I have used that lanyard loop 0 times since 2009 😂

[RJ]

So, you had a fiber optic front sight installed but went back to the original white dot? Curious why you replaced the fiber optic sight, since you are looking for something more visible than the white dot?

Anyway, I've installed Dawson front sights on several Springfield Armory guns and they work well. For the price, the Dawson sights are hard to beat. I've always gone with the .170" height though, paired with a Heinie Ledge rear sight.

Short version is I had been planning to use the Garrison at The Pin Shoot in Michigan in June. Unfortunately, due to one of those life gets in the way events, I had to cancel.

So since my shooting is indoors, at a range which features dark bays and black walls without a lot of illumination, the FO is so hard to see that it might as well be black. This range also has local indoor bowling pin matches, so I want to switch to something a bit more visible.

Thanks for the Dawson info, that one I referenced is most likely the one I will pick up.

[Chuck Whitlock]

I am looking for options to replace the original front sight on my SA Garrison. It's currently a steel white dot, 0.180" tall x 0.125" wide sight, with a 60 degree dovetail. I found a white/tritium sight by Dawson that seems to fit the bill:

105694

Any other good options out there for a SA front dovetail? I'm ok with white but would prefer orange due to my eyesight picking it up better. I like the Trijicon HD set, but they seem to be Novak cut (65 degree?) and at $170 for a set, are a bit spendy for me.

Rich,

This might be an option for you:

https://www.edbrown.com/product/hdxr-front-sight/

[RJ]

Rich,

This might be an option for you:

https://www.edbrown.com/product/hdxr-front-sight/

Dang it Chuck, that appears about perfect!!

I took a look at the specs, and unless I'm not understanding something, it has a 65 degree (Novak?) dovetail? The Springfield's are 60, do they not? So, not sure, but that EB sight would not fit a Springfield? Man, I sure hope that is not the case, because this looks exactly like what I want.

[CSW]

RJ;

I did the Dawson on my Springfield RO. Minor fitting and it's been working well.

Put a touch of red Loctite under the sight .

[Elwin]

Dang it Chuck, that appears about perfect!!

I took a look at the specs, and unless I'm not understanding something, it has a 65 degree (Novak?) dovetail? The Springfield's are 60, do they not? So, not sure, but that EB sight would not fit a Springfield? Man, I sure hope that is not the case, because this looks exactly like what I want.

I don't know about fitting to Springfields, so hopefully someone else can help with that, but I can confirm it's a great sight. Have one on my KC9, and it's only going away when I get it milled for a dot and replace it with a black one for a BUIS.

I feel like I read something somewhere about fitting it to Springers but I could be wrong.

[RJ]

I don't know about fitting to Springfields, so hopefully someone else can help with that, but I can confirm it's a great sight. Have one on my KC9, and it's only going away when I get it milled for a dot and replace it with a black one for a BUIS.

I feel like I read something somewhere about fitting it to Springers but I could be wrong.

Thanks, there's also a thread over on Addicts and I got the same input there...that the Novak (Ed Brown) 65 degree front sight and the Springfield dovetail are not compatible. So with that I'll be ordering the Dawson Tritium/White front. The Dawson does not have a hole for that tension pin that got sheered off on mine, so after fitting the sight dovetail, I'll use some loctite and press it in.

Appreciate all the inputs.

Funny, lately since I had to withdraw from the Pin Shoot (because: reasons) I've been reverting some parts of the gun back to original form. It's a lot of fun to tinker with. Besides futzing with the sights, I'm going to see if I can tweak the new EGW raised mag catch to make insertion slightly less troublesome. I did this to the SA mag catch, just relieving the edges a bit following a recipe I found online by Steve in Allentown.

105745

[RJ]

Since this was mostly about my specific issue in the Garrison, I decided to put this here vs. the general 1911 thread.

I was wondering why my mags were a bit hard to insert after I replaced the Springfield mag catch with the new EGW Raised Mag catch.

Well, duh. It turns out I forgot I hadn't done the same smoothing work yet. Pictured below (red arrow) is the very very abrubt transition, right at the point of the magazine lips which contact the catch on insertion. Well no wonder why there was a big "hitch" now, and I had to use quite a bit of force.

After working on the EGW catch in the same area (green arrow), mag insertion is much, much smoother and solid. I also opted to swap down to a Wolff #2 mag catch spring, I'll give that a try at the range next chance.

Original SA mag catch is shown at left in both photos, the EGW is show as I started on the left, and where I ended up on the right. Did just a few strokes with a file then smoothed with 800 and finished with 2000 paper.

105746

[Chuck Whitlock]

Dang it Chuck, that appears about perfect!!

I took a look at the specs, and unless I'm not understanding something, it has a 65 degree (Novak?) dovetail? The Springfield's are 60, do they not? So, not sure, but that EB sight would not fit a Springfield? Man, I sure hope that is not the case, because this looks exactly like what I want.

I am not the guy to answer that question, Rich.

Here is something from Novak's site that may be informative for you:

https://www.novaksights.com/Content.aspx?PAGE=%22Sights%20101%22

[RJ]

Here is something from Novak's site that may be informative for you:

https://www.novaksights.com/Content.aspx?PAGE=%22Sights%20101%22

Thanks Chuck. That was a pretty informative read. Takeaway for me is that Springfield uses their own dovetail front cut, so a Novak sight will not work.

Right now I'm thinking of playing around with options to make my existing Springfield front dot a bit more visible. (And beside, it's fitted to my slide already). I have a tiny drop of traffic cone orange model paint over the white dot at the moment, but I did a pretty half ass job of that, I admit. Might just scrape all that out and perhaps enlarge it a bit, then repaint it bright gloss white. I mean I don't need tritium per se, and I can use the $65 price of the Dawson to buy some more Federal HST. :cool:

[CSW]

If you choose to not go with a night sight, what about a fiber?

If you're interested, I'd send you the fiber that came off my Champion 9mm gratis, if you wanted to try. This fiber is the one that came on the pistol from Springfield. I cannot ever use it again on my gun as I've milled it for a dot.

These are the specs from Springfield for mine, if it helps you:

Rear : 375 tall with a 125 notch.
Front : 175 tall x a 125 wide red fiber optic dot.

[RJ]

If you choose to not go with a night sight, what about a fiber?

If you're interested, I'd send you the fiber that came off my Champion 9mm gratis, if you wanted to try. This fiber is the one that came on the pistol from Springfield. I cannot ever use it again on my gun as I've milled it for a dot.

These are the specs from Springfield for mine, if it helps you:

Rear : 375 tall with a 125 notch.
Front : 175 tall x a 125 wide red fiber optic dot.

Much appreciate the offer, but: I just removed the Dawson FO that I'd had on the gun since last fall, as it turns out. My shooting nowadays is indoors, at a range with dull gray walls and ill-lit stalls..so the FO might as well have been black. Thanks though!


I made a bit of progress on modifying the original Springfield front sight this morning. I used a small ball cutter and a teeny diamond tipped bit to remove both layers of paint, and enlarge / deepen the opening, followed by sanding the front surface:
105759

After re-blueing it, I had to clean out some leftover schmutz with a pick.
105758

Now I need to source some bright white gloss paint. ETA: Just ordered a .25 oz bottle of Testor's Enamel Gloss White and a 50-pack of 1/16x1/4 tension pins.

[Elwin]

Two thoughts.

One, on my last carry gun I messed around with red fiber and a Dawson white outline tritium sight before settling on a green fiber with the sight itself painted orange. This made kindof the fiber version of an HD-XR (large orange thing good for lighter conditions and small green thing in the middle with some amount of low light advantage) that gave me a good sight picture in all lighting conditions until you got to levels of darkness where only tritium works. I got this idea from an old post here, forget who it was by. Maybe GJM.

Two, you could just mill it for a dot… have the slide refinished, make it the platform for kindof a build as you go custom. I know classic 1911 is an aesthetic, but 1911s are also the beloved pistols they are because you can turn one into pretty much the perfect pistol for you and your purposes.

[Robinson]

Since this was mostly about my specific issue in the Garrison, I decided to put this here vs. the general 1911 thread.

I was wondering why my mags were a bit hard to insert after I replaced the Springfield mag catch with the new EGW Raised Mag catch.

Well, duh. It turns out I forgot I hadn't done the same smoothing work yet. Pictured below (red arrow) is the very very abrubt transition, right at the point of the magazine lips which contact the catch on insertion. Well no wonder why there was a big "hitch" now, and I had to use quite a bit of force.

After working on the EGW catch in the same area (green arrow), mag insertion is much, much smoother and solid. I also opted to swap down to a Wolff #2 mag catch spring, I'll give that a try at the range next chance.

Original SA mag catch is shown at left in both photos, the EGW is show as I started on the left, and where I ended up on the right. Did just a few strokes with a file then smoothed with 800 and finished with 2000 paper.

105746

Rich -- I don't know if this has come up in any of these threads before, but having some magazines that require vigorous insertion is somewhat common with 1911s. Often times the issue goes away with use.

That's not to say you shouldn't have modified the mag catch, just a bit of info.

[SW CQB 45]

My eyes are getting up in age and always looking for an edge to find my front quicker.

I did this to my MCOP and it worked great till the ALS contraption in the duty holster kept rubbing it off.

https://i.imgur.com/SatkRnah.jpg

on the other MCOP I have, I did this... damn its easy to find.

https://i.imgur.com/8pV835bh.jpg

I did this to a night sight and again, it worked till the ALS rubbed it off.

https://i.imgur.com/o9ABAnih.jpg

I always do it to a snub revolver

https://i.imgur.com/PNhI1zKh.jpg

[SW CQB 45]

As I head out for duty,

quick photo to show the ALS rub on my front sight.

Its a pain as my draw has me already wanting to rotate and it makes contact inside the holster.

F/O is the same issue where the bubble or melted dome on the other side of the sight will make contact on the return and limit my F/O life.

https://i.imgur.com/m0h2XAKh.jpg

[RJ]

When I had rear irons on my RO Elite, I ordered the 10-8 rear for Springfield/Novak.

I just replaced the Front sight on the RO I had RMR'd....A Dawson for the Springfield/Novak cut.

Only the slightest fitting, which was only light sanding/thinning on the bottom of both front and rear. A touch of lock-tight under both, and I was good to go.

This was the email from Springer:

"Springfield used to use the standard Novak rear cut, but it's changed since after ~2002 to a smaller cut.
Front: 60° x .330" x .078"
Rear: 65° x ~.490"-.485" (this is just a smaller cut in the dovetail, which requires filing down the sight to fit)"

Really appreciated this post. I was wondering what the rear sight cut was on my Garrison as I want to order a 10 8.

Thanks!!

[RJ]

Really appreciated this post. I was wondering what the rear sight cut was on my Garrison as I want to order a 10 8.

Thanks!!

...which got installed today. Shown along with the rewickered front (drilled, cleaned, drop of Testor's White Enamel) sight. I like the sight picture, rear notch is a U, 0.140", and the front is 0.125". Picked the rear in stock height, 0.325", will verify poi v poa at the range soon, but don't expect it to change.

106049

[CSW]

Nice work RJ.
Very clean install.

[Robinson]

...which got installed today. Shown along with the rewickered front (drilled, cleaned, drop of Testor's White Enamel) sight. I like the sight picture, rear notch is a U, 0.140", and the front is 0.125". Picked the rear in stock height, 0.325", will verify poi v poa at the range soon, but don't expect it to change.

Nice job, it's a big improvement IMO.

[RJ]

...will verify poi v poa at the range soon, but don't expect it to change.



Thought I would swing back, now I have had a couple range sessions since my last update.

I fitted on the tang of the Grip Safety. My percent engagement went from 72% to 44%, so I quit at that point.

Out of an abundance of caution I installed four Wilson 500SK-8HD Flat-wire spring/follower kits in my ETM mags (hey they were on sale for Father's Day.)

It occurred to me that I had never used full size grips with my Short Pad trigger. So to try this setup out inexpensively, I ordered a couple plain brown nylon GI grips off eBay. $7.95 plus shipping. While I was in there, I replaced the bushings and screws with Challis parts, and touched up the frame underneath, as it had gotten rubbed a bit. I used both bushing and grip O-rings from Challis. I torqued them per Challis' numbers, I don't think they are going anywhere. And actually I kind of like the plain and simple look. The grips worked well at the range today, so I will most likely just leave them on.

106456

After getting the gun cleaned today, I took 4 strokes on the axle of the thumb safety. Operation after putting in the new, Wilson plunger assy was getting into the "wow, this is hard" category. I have it back now to "firm but manageable". I will stop there.

Naturally this required removal and refitment of the TS after every file stroke, so I had to cast around for a convenient tool to winkle the left piece of the TS up and out. Good thing I had that Medium Rare steak at Longhorn last week. :cool:

106457

Gun is at 750 rounds, exactly. Zero malfunctions or stoppages, and none since I did all that work on the Feedway stuff in March/April. Today I shot The Test for a decent score, for me, of 88-2X with 10/10 on paper. Looking at all the targets lately, the gun may still shoot a bit of a 6 o'clock hold, but it is hard for me to break my habit of shooting the dot.

[theJanitor]

If the hammer is cocked back, the thumb safety should be easy to wiggle out without a tool.

[SW CQB 45]

steak, brew and 1911s. :cool:

[RJ]

If the hammer is cocked back, the thumb safety should be easy to wiggle out without a tool.

I’m aware of that.

Picture was taken for a joke only, but perhaps it didn’t work in this case.

[theJanitor]

I’m aware of that.

Picture was taken for a joke only, but perhaps it didn’t work in this case.

That's not on you, Brother. I'm quite short when it comes to catching jokes

[A-Train]

Those look nice. I like ‘em.

[Hambo]

106457



The rails can't be as rough as they look in the photo...can they?

[RJ]

The rails can't be as rough as they look in the photo...can they?

Yep.

Beats me, I just shoot it. 750 rounds to date.

ETA: When I got it last July, slide to frame was pretty rough. The slide would not fall off the bare frame under it's own weight, at all. I worked it with Flitz until it did. It's pretty easy to fall now. Could be I did what you see in the photo, I guess; I only have this sample of one 1911 to go by.

[Hambo]

Yep.

Beats me, I just shoot it. 750 rounds to date.

ETA: When I got it last July, slide to frame was pretty rough. The slide would not fall off the bare frame under it's own weight, at all. I worked it with Flitz until it did. It's pretty easy to fall now. Could be I did what you see in the photo, I guess; I only have this sample of one 1911 to go by.

It looks like tooling marks to me. I can't tell how much the photo accentuates it, or maybe the Flitz made them stand out, but I've never seen rails like that before. I'll have to see if I can find one in a store.

[RJ]

It looks like tooling marks to me. I can't tell how much the photo accentuates it, or maybe the Flitz made them stand out, but I've never seen rails like that before. I'll have to see if I can find one in a store.

Be interesting what you find out.

I tried out the new fancy-pants range near me on Tuesday; very nice it was, too. Even had air conditioning, which was a big step up from where I usually go. The retail shop has this large circular display with maybe 200 or so cabled pistols, all set up so you can handle them each in turn. I went around looking at all the 1911s that had ambi thumb safeties, so I could compare with mine before fitting on it some more.

Anyway, out of idle curiosity, I also felt the slide to frame fit of each one as I handled it. The display included a couple Colts, Springfield, Taurus, Ruger, and a S&W. No Tisas or RIA. It was funny, the guns with the most perceptible wiggle were the brown "Military" looking Colt and the Taurus. The one with the least was the Springfield.

These are finger banged a lot, sitting on display, of course. My Garrison feels fairly tight, or at least as tight as the best of them, which IIRC was a Springfield Loaded. I appreciate slide to frame fit isn't a lot to do with accuracy necessarily, and we are talking low end production guns, not Les Baer's, but I thought it was interesting, nonetheless.

[Robinson]

It was funny, the guns with the most perceptible wiggle were the brown "Military" looking Colt and the Taurus.

Colt is known for making 1911s with a fairly loose slide to frame fit, and it's actually by design. However, sometimes they are so loose that it detracts from a feel of quality and it affects the feel when shooting. I would prefer that they tighten things up a bit. The exception is the guns currently made in the Custom Shop -- they are built tight.

Springfield Armory has been building some pretty nice guns of late. I have been very impressed with my recent manufacture Operator.

[RJ]

Welp I'm still fiddling around with the gun. I have to say it is still pretty interesting, learning new stuff about the design. I'm sure it's old hat to most of you, but it is fun for me.

I wasn't thrilled with the U-notch in the 10 8 rear so I hogged out the channel with a file and reblued it. I much prefer this sight picture. Should lower my groups a tad, which I am ok with.
107113

I had removed the granulate Talon front strap a few weeks ago, and finally installed the other option I had, which was the rubber. I like this a lot better; gives some texture but doesn't tear up my fingers.

Functionally the biggest recent change was installing a new EGW bushing and long nose spring plug. I measured my gun the way they suggest, then sat down and figured out which one of their "drop-in" parts would work best. After it arrived, it would barely turn in the slide, so I rubbed on it just a tad with some Flitz until it (barely) rotated. It chewed up my Wilson plastic wrench pretty good, I have an Aluminum one on the way. Bushing to barrel fit is also much tighter. Even racking the slide was quite a bit harder than before. I've watched several videos on Les Baer guns and there is a kind of "hitch" in the action that you can see people experience. Mine is exactly like that.

I shot 89 rounds this week at the square range with the new bushing with no issues. I can't say yet whether the bushing reduced my groups; I was on the short 15 yard range and didn't use a rest. If my gun had any play at the barrel end before, it sure doesn't now, I'll say. Just to include the clearances before and after, for reference (remember, all this is to Harbor Freight caliper standards, my Garrison ain't exactly a Mitutoyo-worthy gun):

Before: Data for Gun, Stock parts
Slide ID 0.6990
Springfield Bushing OD 0.6970 (Delta 0.0020)
Barrel OD 0.5795
Springfield Bushing ID 0.5830 (Delta 0.0035)

After: Data for Gun, EGW parts
Slide ID 0.6990
EGW Bushing OD 0.6990 (Delta 0.000)
Barrel OD 0.5795
EGW Bushing ID 0.5800 (Delta 0.0015)

(Part I bought was an EGW "Barrel Bushing Drop-in Carry Bevel Govt. 0.699x0.580 Angle Bore")

107115

The new tighter bushing means I can't field strip with my normal, turn bushing first method. So I came across a good YT video of Rob Schauland with an excellent tutorial on the slide stop first method. I've been doing that lately, and it's been fairly easy, as long as I follow the procedure described. Rob has a good way of getting the loaded hand grenade which is the top end including RSA all put together, that works well. This was the big problem I had; and doing it the way Rob describes it really reduces the risk of parts going SPROING!! into the ceiling or carpet (or, worse, me).

It certainly was worth $25 to learn a lot more about barrel bushing fit. But that is like most of the things I get to fiddle with the gun; it's not so much about the gun per se for me, I am just curious how these work. Replacing parts is a pretty low-cost way of getting to understand the function, as I am more of a visual, hands-on learner. And it is fun to play with. :cool:


So, I'm up to 961 rounds, with no malfunctions or stoppages of any kind with ball or HP ever since I installed the higher shelf mag catch. Not sure quite what I'm going to try next, maybe a magwell. Thinking an Ed Brown Maxi-Well, most likely. It is a two piece, under $100, seems to be well reviewed.

[45dotACP]

Welp I'm still fiddling around with the gun. I have to say it is still pretty interesting, learning new stuff about the design. I'm sure it's old hat to most of you, but it is fun for me.

I wasn't thrilled with the U-notch in the 10 8 rear so I hogged out the channel with a file and reblued it. I much prefer this sight picture. Should lower my groups a tad, which I am ok with.
107113

I had removed the granulate Talon front strap a few weeks ago, and finally installed the other option I had, which was the rubber. I like this a lot better; gives some texture but doesn't tear up my fingers.

Functionally the biggest recent change was installing a new EGW bushing and long nose spring plug. I measured my gun the way they suggest, then sat down and figured out which one of their "drop-in" parts would work best. After it arrived, it would barely turn in the slide, so I rubbed on it just a tad with some Flitz until it (barely) rotated. It chewed up my Wilson plastic wrench pretty good, I have an Aluminum one on the way. Bushing to barrel fit is also much tighter. Even racking the slide was quite a bit harder than before. I've watched several videos on Les Baer guns and there is a kind of "hitch" in the action that you can see people experience. Mine is exactly like that.

I shot 89 rounds this week at the square range with the new bushing with no issues. I can't say yet whether the bushing reduced my groups; I was on the short 15 yard range and didn't use a rest. If my gun had any play at the barrel end before, it sure doesn't now, I'll say.

Just to include the clearances before and after, for reference (remember, all this is to Harbor Freight caliper standards, my Garrison ain't exactly a Mitutoyo-worthy gun):

Before: Data for Gun, Stock parts
Slide ID 0.6990
Springfield Bushing OD 0.6970 (Delta 0.0020)
Barrel OD 0.5795
Springfield Bushing ID 0.5830 (Delta 0.0035)

After: Data for Gun, EGW parts
Slide ID 0.6990
EGW Bushing OD 0.6990 (Delta 0.000)
Barrel OD 0.5795
EGW Bushing ID 0.5800 (Delta 0.0015)

(Part I bought was an EGW "Barrel Bushing Drop-in Carry Bevel Govt. 0.699x0.580 Angle Bore")

107115

The new tighter bushing means I can't field strip with my normal, turn bushing first method. So I came across a good YT video of Rob Schauland with an excellent tutorial on the slide stop first method. I've been doing that lately, and it's been fairly easy, as long as I follow the procedure described. Rob has a good way of getting the loaded hand grenade which is the top end including RSA all put together, that works well. This was the big problem I had; and doing it the way Rob describes it really reduces the risk of parts going SPROING!! into the ceiling or carpet (or, worse, me).

So, I'm up to 961 rounds, with no malfunctions or stoppages of any kind with ball or HP ever since I installed the higher shelf mag catch. Not sure quite what I'm going to try next, maybe a magwell. Thinking an Ed Brown Maxi-Well, most likely. It is a two piece, under $100, seems to be well reviewed.

I personally didn't love the Ed Brown Maxi-well. The magwell would get wobbly on the mainspring housing. I very much preferred the Smith and Alexander and it's the one that rides on my Caspian Build (which is my very favorite 1911).

The EGW bushings were a pain in the ass for me to install on my guns, but a well worthy pain in the ass. After installation, I noticed significant improvement in the accuracy of most of my 1911s. Definitely recommend a bushing wrench made of something more than just plastic, as it chewed up my plastic wrench very easily when I got my RRA poly 1911 and installed EGW bushings on my other 1911s.

[RJ]

I personally didn't love the Ed Brown Maxi-well. The magwell would get wobbly on the mainspring housing. I very much preferred the Smith and Alexander and it's the one that rides on my Caspian Build (which is my very favorite 1911).


Good to know, thanks for the perspective. That is a worry of mine with the two piece design. If I found some spare change down the couch cushions, I would probably opt for Stan Chen's user installed magwell, but it's a bit spendy.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Not sure quite what I'm going to try next, maybe a magwell. Thinking an Ed Brown Maxi-Well, most likely. It is a two piece, under $100, seems to be well reviewed.



Good to know, thanks for the perspective. That is a worry of mine with the two piece design. If I found some spare change down the couch cushions, I would probably opt for Stan Chen's user installed magwell, but it's a bit spendy.

Rich,

For not a lot of money, you could try the Wilson slip-on magwell to play with the concept.

https://wilsoncombat.com/magazine-well-blue.html

Looks like it is out of stock at Wilson, but looks available at Brownells and VZ.

https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts/handgun-parts/handgun-frames-parts/1911-ez-loader-magwell/?sku=965170113

https://vzgrips.com/products/wilson-combat-magazine-well.html

The inside of the grip panels need to be relieved, but I think you've got some spares lying around to toy with, if you've go an interest.

[SW CQB 45]

my fricken two piece factory DW Specialist mag well is junk.

I was messin with the gun the other day and I heard rattling. I took off the slide and the rattle was on the frame. The magwell is not tight. I will take a pic in a few days two show the design. Its a U shape cut out and uses the mainspring pin to keep the two together. I guess who was making them that day had something else on their mind.

My 1911 must haves...

good sights
good trigger
well fit barrel
mag well
some sort of front strap treatment with checkering being the sheeeeOT. I like 20/25 and 30.

[03RN]

I just put a nighthawk magwell on my loaded. It's about as solid as a piece of steel
107128

[Trukinjp13]

I just put a nighthawk magwell on my loaded. It's about as solid as a piece of steel
107128

Looks like you have some well placed accessories on her [emoji1303][emoji1303]


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