Mouseguns

[Clusterfrack]

Mouseguns! Here is a new thread on the topic of very small guns. I would define a mousegun as no larger than a Ruger LCP.

Here are some links to previous related discussions on pocket .380s (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?24920-Help-me-decide-on-a-pocket-380) and BUGs (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29947-380-pocket-bugs).

Disadvantages of mouseguns:

less reliable
less capacity
less powerful
hard to shoot well

Advantages of mouseguns:

tiny
lightweight

Why would we choose a mousegun instead of a larger gun?
What are the best mouseguns--especially with regard to reliability?
Other things of interest?

Please limit the thread to mouseguns. No Glock 42s or snubbies allowed.

[Clusterfrack]

Ok, I admit to starting this thread for selfish reasons. The biblical rain in the PNW has led me to pants pocket carry for easier access while wearing raingear. After re-re-visiting my LCR9 for pants pocket carry and once again finding it too large, I'm back to my LCP1 Gen2. It's been a really good gun, and it shoots surprisingly well (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?22600-Gabe-White-Standards&p=637977&viewfull=1#post637977) for what it is.

But, the grip angle on the LCP is quite vertical, and very unlike my CZs and Glocks. The Kahr P380 looks like it has a more angled grip. I know folks have had some mixed experiences with these little guns. Am I nuts to consider it?

7983179832

[Gadfly]

I do NOT have any personal experience with the Kahr 380… I looked at them back in the day, and pretty much every thing I read was not complimentary.

I did own a Keltec P32. Amazingly small, but I found the semi rimmed .32 gave me rim lock malfunctions enough that I no longer trusted it.

The LCP in 380 with the replaceable sights seems the way to go… I just wish the finish on Ruger pistols did not rust just be looking at them too hard.

[GearFondler]

Based strictly on other people's experiences, I'd say you are fine trying the Kahr if...
1) You are okay with vetting the shit out of it
2) You can find and afford the ammo to do #1
3) You are okay dealing with it not functioning properly, i.e., sending back to Kahr or selling.

[GAP]

The first tiny gun I ever bought was a Kahr 380 and it was traded in towards an LCP.

The Kahr choked on a variety of FMJ and also both Speer Golddot and Federal HS.

My LCP has not had one malfunction with any type of ammo.

[4RNR]

I sometimes carry a LCP. Rarely but it happens. When I have to go somewhere where a full size gun would be hard to conceal and obvious. And on the rare occasion I have to run out to the store in the evening. The LOP is easy to just throw in a pocket and go.

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[octagon]

The first tiny gun I ever bought was a Kahr 380 and it was traded in towards an LCP.

The Kahr choked on a variety of FMJ and also both Speer Golddot and Federal HS.

My LCP has not had one malfunction with any type of ammo.

My experience was almost the opposite. I bought a LCP early on and it worked well but the sights and trigger along with no last round hold open didn't do it for me. I bought a Kahr P380 and it worked almost flawlessly with any ammo I tried. I liked it so much I bough the cheaper CW380 which is the same size but uses a MIM or cast slide lock lever and no polygonal rifled barrel. It also has less slide machining and stamped not rolled marks but basically the same gun. It runs as good or better than the P380 as I don't recall any malfunctions with it. Still have both Kahrs.

That said LCPs are often less expensive and with the LCPII and LCP Max out more choices are always good. I am looking at getting a LCP Max but I don't know if that fits the OP definition on mousegun. It fits mine.

[spinmove_]

I had an LCP for a short while. Carries great, but I had pretty routine stoppage issues typically on the 4th or 5th round in the magazine with the pinkie extension. Without the pinkie extension it worked fine, but had a nasty habit of wriggling it’s way out of my hands regardless of how I gripped it. Simply didn’t work for me.

For pocket carry I’ve had really good experience with my J-frame. Since this is a mousegun thread I’ll leave it at that.

I’m not opposed to the concept of a different mousegun though and am eager to hear of other possible options. Does anyone have any experience with the Beretta Tomcats?

[TheNewbie]

The LCP 1 Gen 1 I had was reliable for a decade of minimal care and hundreds of rounds. Hundreds of rounds isn't a lot but on an LCP it is a pretty decent round count, especially compared to the average LCP owner. It finally crapped out on me, but Ruger replaced the slide and sent it back. It is now with a family member, but I did like it for what it was.


The LCP with and extra mag carried in your watch pocket gives you 13 rounds in a package that is almost as if it isn't there. While you are not going to win any major gun games with it, the LCP actually is not that difficult to shoot at a decent level. The worst thing about it is that is painful to shoot. Not PF9 painful, but after 50 rounds I am ready to stop.


The reason I would select it over a snubbie is that I cannot get a DAO snubbie with a bobbed hammer, and the LCP simply disappears. You could carry with an empty chamber and carry it in some shirt pockets if you absolutely had to do so.


A Keltec P32 is a small gun I would like to try.

[JCN]

Clusterfrack

79845

Kimber micro 380 has a more sloped grip angle.

But for size and weight it’s hard to beat the LCP Custom.

Better sights and trigger.

79846

But really what you should get is a Taurus Curve.

Sloped grip and curved to along your thigh in a pocket!

79847

























Just kidding. It’s a horrible gun.

Instead of the P380, what about a Smith Bodyguard?

Similar type of long DA trigger pull.

79848

But when I pocket carry it’s usually this:

79849

Half a step up from a sharp stick.

[45dotACP]

I love the LCP custom

The good sights and better trigger is a step up from the usual LCP but I got it for a similar price.

I have been eyeing a Beretta Bobcat .22lr from a local range and contemplating whether to get that or the LCP .22 that's in the case next to it.

I suppose I should throw up the bat signal for Claude Werner or Les Pepperoni.



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[El Cid]

Before I was in LE my deep concealment gun (when getting made could mean losing your CCL), was a Beretta Tomcat in 32ACP. It was always reliable and accurate enough for what it was. The newest version has better sights I think. Haven’t carried it in years so I don’t even know what the latest and greatest 32 ammo is. I kept mine full of Gold Dots.

[Rex G]

My choice of miniaturized pistol is the Seecamp LWS-32. Though small, its dimensions fit me where it is important, and it points well enough; windage is good, and elevation is, well, close enough for pointy-stick distance. I have seen anecdotes of parts breakage, but have also seen anecdotes of some quite high-round counts, with no problems. They certainly seem to feed reliably, at least when using the recommended loads. (I have not tried anything but the recommended loads.) I have accumulated several of these, and my wife has her own LWS-32.

I helped my wife break-in her Kel-Tec .32. We both hated shooting it. Very uncomfortable. We found it to be reliable, if the magazines are kept down-loaded by one, from full capacity. It has sat, unused, since we finished the original vetting, years ago. I think that I would rather carry a stick.

Edited to add: I think that I might rather use one of those mini-revolvers, than a Kel-Tec .32. Seriously. I would probably fire it in “slip gun” fashion.

[Duelist]

MY brother bought a KelTec P32 decades ago. It is his go-to pocket gun, and since he works in an office he is part owner of or on job sites he has nominal control of daily, with occasional suit days for proposals and bids and so forth, a gun he can slide into his jeans or suit pants is ideal.

I always hated shooting it, though. I have run a Jframe as my primary pocket gun for years, but ended up buying a P32 for $100 on a lark. It runs. It’s not exactly fun to shoot, but it doesn’t hurt to do so, so I don’t hate it and it goes places other guns won’t. Very discreet in business attire. Not interested in shooting .380 through a gun that size.

The G42 only weighs 13 ounces or so and fits in most of my pockets when the 642 is too bulky, so since I got one of those, the P32 has gotten very little carry. Not worth selling, but worth keeping the ugly little thing around for extreme low profile carry.

[jandbj]

If anyone wants to part with an LCP Custom, hit me up.

Why Ruger stopped making the BEST iteration of the gen1 LCP is a mystery.

Until I find one of those, the G42 or S&W 351c are my favorite pocket rockets for those times I can’t carry anything more capable.

P3at & Seecamp 32 haven’t left the safe in years.

Shot an LCP Max recently, other than it hitting 6-8” low at 15 yards, I liked it. Even when driving the dot, I’d have appreciated a taller rear sight to correct the elevation.

[Totem Polar]

I was, at one point, the inveterate mousegun guy. I’ve had a bunch of them. Still sort of wish I had a TPH.

The Seecamp was astonishingly reliable (keeping in mind that the last round stovepipe is a designed feature, not a bug), but the no-sight thing ultimately wore thin. In hindsight, I should have kept it though. I’m intrigued by some of the NAA custom shop offerings; NAA .32 acp guardians with real sights and stippling, etc. Not cheap, but I bet they’re cool if they run.

The Kahr you are looking at has a good trigger, and good sights. It recoils more than one would expect out of a .380 though. The Sig P238 was a neat little gun, provided that one is ok with the SA design. I shot a 2-day intermediate handgun class with my p-238 back in the day, and I did surprisingly well—certainly holding my own against the other students with that thing. The magazines were sort of expensive.

I’ve not had good luck with the Beretta 21. Honestly, the Taurus PT-22 was more reliable, right up to the point that it went full Taurus, and started doing things like shedding the slide mid-string, or disengaging the safety if you pull the trigger… (Yay! Time saver! Bonus!).

I am intrigued by the threaded barrel Tomcat. My dad has an original recipe .32 Tomcat, and it runs fine. Possibly an option.

I dunno. I suspect that the comments about that LCP custom being the apex of obtainable mouse gun design are probably spot-on. If I find one of those things clean, used, I’m on it.

If I come into FU discretionary cash, I’ll buy a pile of German TPHs, and keep the best two out of the pile. Despite the war-hammer DA trigger on the first shot.

:)

[BillSWPA]

It has been my experience that almost everyone I know who is truly serious about being armed 16/7/365 owns at least one mousegun. Sometimes, discretion must take priority.

My first was a cheap DAO .25 auto which I sold after my first range trip. Watching .25 FMJ penetrate 3/16 inch of wood on my target frame and then drop to the ground undamaged was not confidence inspiring.

After hearing very mixed reviews of the reliability of various .22 and .25 semiautos, and seeing how large they were compared to what they offered, I noticed that a few people I respected carried NAA .22lr mini revolvers in their pockets. At the time, a Seecamp required either a 3 year wait or paying about $1,000 if one could be found for sale. I bought a 1 1/8" .22lr, and used it for backup and high discretion carry. The NAA leather pocket holster worked well. The best grips for size and control have been the "boot" grips. They are only slightly larger than the birdshead grips, but make a big difference in recoil control and accuracy.

As soon as the Kel-Tec P-32 became available, I acquired one. At first, I had to keep it loaded with 7 rounds only, because if I loaded 7+1, it would jam on the first shot. The rim of the top round was stuck in the groove of the round below. Later, I learned that switching to Wolff 11 lb. recoil springs completely solved this problem. I also use their =10% extra power magazine springs. My gun shot several inches to the right at 20-30 feet. David Clay, who is unfortunately no longer in business, installed his "tritium channel sight" while also cutting metal from the left side of the hole in the muzzle supporting the barrel, and welding metal to the right side of that same hole. He was able to shift the windage so that it was no longer off. The gun currently wears a Crimson Trace LaserGuard.

For several years, a North American Arms .380 was my pocket gun of choice. Mine has mini Novak tritium sights from the NAA Custom Shop, as well as a Teddy Jacobson trigger job. The gun is very reliable as long as I use Federal or Winchester primers. This gun also currently has Crimson Trace LaserGrips. All of these changes made the gun significantly easier to shoot than it was out of the box. Unfortunately, it is still not as easy to shoot quickly and accurately as My P3AT.

My current mousegun choice is a Kel-Tec P3AT. Like my other Kel-Tec, this one runs best with recoil springs whcih are 2 lb. heavier than factory standard. With 13 lb. springs, I have no worries about jams. The gun does give me some light strikes unless I use Federal or Winchester primers. It currently has a Crimson Trace LaserGuard. The factory sights are useless except under perfect range conditions, but the LaserGuard is a total game changer in low light. The vast majority of the time when I thought I might need a gun, it was after dark.

When I first shot the P3AT, it rotated in my hand badly, slowing my second shot speed. I tried +1 magazine extensions, but found them to be noisy. The +0 extensions are not only quieter, but provide a better grip.

A few pointers about the Kel-Tec mouseguns:

If it came with a plastic guide rod, stick with the plastic. The flexing of the guide rod helps prevent binding the slide.

Do not do the "fluff and buff" recommended on some websites. Not only will it take the gun out of warranty, but it will likely take an in-spec gun out of spec.

Heavier recoil springs, and to a lesser extent magazine springs, are simple and effective first steps to cure any reliability issues.

In .32 ACP, careful loading of the magazines will prevent rimlock. I am convinced that most rimlock occurs during loading of the magazines.

These guns are absolute pocket lint magnets. Clean the lint out frequently.

[jmf552]

I have a S&W Bodyguard .380. When I first got it, it had light strike issues with some ammo. I sent it back to Smith, they kept it for a month, replaced the firing pin and called it good. It was actually worse when I got back on the range with it. But I liked the design, so I sent it to Galloway Precision and had them install their improved lifter and a stronger hammer spring. Now the gun will smash any primer it comes up against. Completely reliable. I added XS Big Dot tritium sights and a Hogue Handall grip.

I like it for deep carry and as a BUG. It is safe, reliable, very concealable and reasonably accurate in my hands. I saw a video of Jerry Miculek hitting steel at 200 yards with one, on the first try, so it is more accurate than I am. I am a long time revolver guy, so the DA trigger does not faze me.

[boing]

Remember, the OP’s rationalization for buying a new gun is “wrong grip angle”, so many of these suggestions are not really solutions. He should have at least said “high bore axis” or something. That would have opened the field a bit.

Maybe a grip sleeve would add a hump to the bottom on the LCP back strap, or one could be trimmed near the web of the hand to get the same effect. It doesn’t change the angle of the front strap, though.

[Sal Picante]

p/CFj__iWp9Ci

Did someone say pocket guns?

Here in board short and flip-flop land, aka Florida, pocket guns are normal; They're a compromise, of course, but fill a niche...
Some other options these days are with LCR/jFrame clip-able holsters (Like DarkStar) and Phlster's enigma: both have worked for me.

p/B5p6oFfA0iP

But keeping on point:

p/CPTJ0pLrXJN
p/B6WJXdQJIPy
p/BzMZtBpgMMz

22 Short is a terrible pocket gun. They're great if you have a Beretta mouse gun addiction, tho.

p/CGah-OMJFEP

The 25 jetfire's are cool, but I don't trust the safety and they're SAO. Having to contemplate cocking the hammer is a non-starter.

p/BikhR5JntdQ

The Bobcats are good in my experience. The newer one have way more reliable ignition. If you buy a stainless one: finding white stainless sights against white stainless rear sights is tough - a sharpie helps.
They do shoot surprisingly accurately, tho, and I've had good luck with Stingers and Velocitors. Clean them after every couple of magazines. Oil and grease are your friend: these guns hate being run dry.

Semi-daily checks/cleaning are important.

p/BqqNXj7Hn4M
p/B_qVlhAJGf_

My stupid KelTec P32 is a daily companion. Mine runs exceedingly well. I feed it Sellier and Bellot 32 72 gr FMJ: the OAL of the round prevents rimlock.
I liked the gun so much, I had real sight put on by Innovative Arms.
I carry it in a Galco Horsehide pocket holster - it has "hooks" at the leading and trailing edge to catch a pocket...
I usually wedge my phone between the holster and outside of the pocket to help break up the shape.
(The holster works great on the rare event that I need to wear a jacket in FL too.)

p/Bou_6whHh5F

I dislike pocket guns with no sights (Seecamp, CZ Duo): The idea that you're going to get a a pocket gun into action during a grapple is, well, unrealistic.
I view them more as for surreptitious use: drawing or access before things are going down, preparing for an imminent threat, etc.

p/BueJZQ2HIyt
(Volume up...)

I don't practice with my P32 as much as I once did, because inflation and supply-chain issue have made ammunition stupid expensive, but some dry fire goes a long way...
Cleaning/checking everyday is a necessity, even with a reliable revolver like the LCR: Lint, grit, sand, sweat, etc all conspire against you.

[4RNR]

If anyone wants to part with an LCP Custom, hit me up.

Why Ruger stopped making the BEST iteration of the gen1 LCP is a mystery.

Until I find one of those, the G42 or S&W 351c are my favorite pocket rockets for those times I can’t carry anything more capable.

P3at & Seecamp 32 haven’t left the safe in years.

Shot an LCP Max recently, other than it hitting 6-8” low at 15 yards, I liked it. Even when driving the dot, I’d have appreciated a taller rear sight to correct the elevation.That's the one I have. Prior to the panic they were very common trade in guns. I picked mine up for like $150. My friend saw it and bought a used one the next week. My dad saw it and bought a used one a few days later.

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[CCT125US]

Had an LCP that I carried frequently in a Desantis Nemesis. I put over 1k rounds through it and sold it for what I paid for.

Also borrowed a neighbors P3AT for comparison. It disassembled itself in my hand, so that was fun.

One pocket gun I am interested in is the Baby Browning. Cute little thing.

A Mauser 1910 is one I occasionally get to shoot.

79855

[MattyD380]

I had a new production Seecamp. I put about 40 rounds through it in the time I had it. 40 expensive Speer Gold Dots. It ran reliably and, at 7 yards, put them into a fairly wide--but serviceable--group on paper.

But it was just so finicky in just about every aspect of its operation. Only certain (expensive!) ammo. Don't over-lube or the slide could fly off. Don't pull the trigger with the mag out or the springs will break. Plus, you can't pull the slide back with the mag out of the gun. I was just kinda over it. And, small as it was, it would still kinda pull gym shorts down.

Can't comment on the Kahr P380. But I have anedotally heard of many people having problems. I will say, however, my Kahr K9 is excellent and very reliable.

The Bodyguard seems solid. I've also considered a Beretta Tomcat. Or even the older 925 Jetfire.

One other pocket gun I'd really like to try (again) is the Bond Bullpup:

https://i1.wp.com/blog.cheaperthandirt.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Bond-Bullpup-13.jpg?resize=640%2C453&ssl=1

I had an original Boberg, back in 2013. It was the second firearm I ever owned. I never had any issues with it... other than the fact I couldn't shoot it worth a damn (then). But it had a VERY nice DAO trigger--which I'm sure I'd appreciate more, now. Kinda wish I still had it.

[Sal Picante]

I've had a lot of good luck with my Kahr PM9. This was a gun that was worked over by Kahr (I had a homie that worked there for a time). I used to shoot it in IDPA, carry it a lot, etc.
The trigger is nice, but it pinches my fingers, which is kinda why I stopped carrying it. Now, it is a SHTF gun that I can keep in a pelican case in the car, the boat, the bag, etc. Full kit with holster, mags, carrier, and box of Federal HST.
The PM9 is just too big to work as a real mouse gun. I've shied away from the P380/CW380 because my hands are too big - I sold my CW380 to a buddy that had carried it for years and is still happy with it.
I think you just need to shake Kahr's out - some are real diamonds, others are total dogs...

p/Boz87otn8n1

p/CEkiIs7pM6h

[Sal Picante]

The real reason to keep mouse guns...

p/BzOhd-wgBRd

[Clusterfrack]

The real reason to keep mouse guns...

p/BzOhd-wgBRd

Here's a true story involving a baby Browning...

I and my teenage buddy were backpacking in the Sierras. We had heard there was a really aggressive black bear where we were planning to camp, but there was a mountain we wanted to climb so that's where we set up our tent. Around midnight the bear showed up, and it began to trash our campsite. We did all the standard things--banged pots and pans and yelled, but this only made the bear angry. It was clearly not afraid of us in any way. I had a little Browning in my pocket, and decided to use it to try to scare the bear away. As I was getting the gun out, my buddy hit the bear squarely in the head with a softball sized piece of granite. This seriously pissed the bear off and it charged me. I ran, tripped, and lost the gun. As the bear was chasing me, my buddy picked the gun up. When he saw what it was, he screamed "Oh my GOD, it's a GUN!!!" and threw it into the bushes. The bear continued to destroy our campsite, but fortunately didn't seem interested in killing me anymore. After what seemed like an hour but was probably only seconds I found the Browning and fired a single shot into the ground. The bear immediately stopped, and ran away. My buddy seemed more scared by the gun than by the bear, and continued to give me grief for the rest of the trip.

[wmu12071]

p/CFj__iWp9Ci

My stupid KelTec P32 is a daily companion. Mine runs exceedingly well. I feed it Sellier and Bellot 32 72 gr FMJ: the OAL of the round prevents rimlock.
I liked the gun so much, I had real sight put on by Innovative Arms.
I carry it in a Galco Horsehide pocket holster - it has "hooks" at the leading and trailing edge to catch a pocket...
I usually wedge my phone between the holster and outside of the pocket to help break up the shape.
(The holster works great on the rare event that I need to wear a jacket in FL too.)

p/Bou_6whHh5F


I desperately want to love my P32 and I think the sights are a big part of the problem for me. I saw the sights you had installed and looked into it but I have a hard time justifying the cost of the gun+ in upgrades to a Keltec. The common denominator for me and shooting well seems to be sights so I may do it anyway.

[Doc_Glock]

I have owned a lot of mouseguns with the exception of the LCP2.


Most have been absolutely garbage.


However the LCP MAX has totally restored my faith in the pocket gun:
-It carries nearly identical to an LCP.
-barely heavier than an LCP.
-in my experience it is -way- more reliable and durable than a Gen 1 LCP.
-11 is moar than 7!


I have carried it and simply abused it for the past three months and it shrugs it off. I haven’t noticed missing the slimmer, lighter LCP at all. Plus I have had several Gen 1 LCPs of recent production disassemble themselves while shooting so I don’t really trust anyone them.


For a mouse gun in a mouse caliber I think the LCP 22 is probably the best bet. I tried and tried to get the Beretta offerings to run reliably but never could. The LCP 22 can bobble but it is very occasional and random as seems to be the character of these .22 pistols. The Beretta .22 ran about 95% of the time and the Ruger is closer to 99-99.5% reliable.


For the .22 LCP I remove the useless safety. I would be decently comfortable carrying it at my only option with caliber being my only concern. It shoots circles around the Beretta from a trigger perspective.


I like the Bodyguard .380 from a size perspective and the DAO trigger is great. I have no idea yet if it is reliable but from my prior experience with any small gun, it probably isn’t. Time will tell.

[BillSWPA]

I desperately want to love my P32 and I think the sights are a big part of the problem for me. I saw the sights you had installed and looked into it but I have a hard time justifying the cost of the gun+ in upgrades to a Keltec. The common denominator for me and shooting well seems to be sights so I may do it anyway.

Consider a Crimson Trace LaserGuard. It is a game changer for these pistols.

The laser will not be useful outside during the day, but will work very well outdoors in low light, or at any time indoors.


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[GJM]

I am interested in learning more about the LCP max, but otherwise there isn't a lot here to endear any of these mouse guns to me. J frame with snake shot is something I carry part of the year, but in a second (Phlster)AIWB holster, since my front pockets are full. Twenty years ago, I Mexican carried a loved on Colt .380, hammer down behind my hip, under my tucked in shirt, with a 317 in my front pocket, but that was before AIWB was as developed as it is now.

[JCN]

Here's a true story involving a baby Browning...

I and my teenage buddy were backpacking in the Sierras. We had heard that there was a really aggressive black bear in the area we were planning to camp at, but there was a mountain we wanted to climb so that's where we set up our tent. Around midnight the bear showed up, and it began to trash our campsite. We did all the standard things--banged pots and pans and yelled, but this only seemed to make the bear angry. It was clearly not afraid of us in any way. I had a little Browning in my pocket, and I figured that I would fire a shot to try to scare it off. As I was getting the gun out, my buddy hit the bear squarely in the head with a softball sized piece of granite. This seriously pissed the bear off and it charged me. I ran, tripped, and lost the gun. As the bear was chasing me, my buddy picked the gun up. When he saw what it was, he screamed "Oh my GOD, it's a GUN!!!" and threw it into the bushes. The bear continued to destroy our campsite, but fortunately didn't seem interested in killing me anymore. After what seemed like an hour but was probably only seconds I found the Browning and fired off a single shot into the ground. The bear immediately stopped, and ran away. My buddy seemed more scared by the gun than by the bear, and continued to give me grief for the rest of the trip.

Did you happen to find his testicles when you were looking for the gun?

[JCN]

One other pocket gun I'd really like to try (again) is the Bond Bullpup:

https://i1.wp.com/blog.cheaperthandirt.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Bond-Bullpup-13.jpg?resize=640%2C453&ssl=1

I had an original Boberg, back in 2013. It was the second firearm I ever owned. I never had any issues with it... other than the fact I couldn't shoot it worth a damn (then). But it had a VERY nice DAO trigger--which I'm sure I'd appreciate more, now. Kinda wish I still had it.

I think your memory is playing tricks on you.

I have one and it’s heavy and kind of clunky.

The PM9 trigger is better and the Boberg is actually kind of a heavy gun.

Would take a P365 over a Boberg any day of the week.

It’s also larger than the mouse gun definition in the first post.

[OlongJohnson]

I picked up an LCP Custom when they went on sale in summer 2017. Did my usual going-through, deburring and smoothing things that needed it. Came out with a surprisingly decent trigger. It actually should have a good trigger, as the hammer spring floats freely and frictionlessly between the two shafts it hooks on; this theoretically gives it the same advantage in this area as a K or L frame.

I found that if I didn't hold it in a meat vise, it would jump around and the bullets would end up in relatively random places. I could make hits reasonably accurately, if not super quickly, if I clamped the heck out of the tiny grip....

I also had a variety of failures that could not be cleared without dropping the mag, and in some cases additional detail manipulation beyond that. At one point, I had the takedown pin start to walk out while shooting it. I inspected it to see if anything looked weird, and found that the locking lug on the bottom of the barrel didn't point straight downward. I sent it back to Ruger, and they replaced the slide assembly and barrel with components that at least look right to me. Due to the realization shooting it injures my hands, it is on consignment at a local shop.

The idea that a first-gen LCP couldn't have a thoroughly useable trigger comes from people not trying. Perhaps more than any other in my experience, the deburring that is obviously needed on the LCP action makes a huge difference. The design is pretty good, it's the low-cost manufacturing that lets it down.

I could grip it tightly enough to make hits, but with XXXL hands, not tightly enough to prevent it injuring my finger. It was something that accumulated over time. I went awhile running a couple of mags through the LCP before I did anything else at the range. Ended up getting an infection on the right side of my trigger fingernail. Thanks to incompetent medical care, it took months to get it cleared up. A few months after it was back to normal, I took the LCP to the range once or twice. Started to see the infection again. Went away with no more LCP shooting. My hypothesis is that the muzzle flip caused the trigger guard to hammer the side of the finger and damage the tissue enough that it was unable to resist the normal presence of bacteria.

Might be worth trying again with a Max.

[JCN]

OlongJohnson did you ever try the LCP with a pinky extension to help with recoil? I won’t shoot it otherwise.

[OlongJohnson]

OlongJohnson did you ever try the LCP with a pinky extension to help with recoil? I won’t shoot it otherwise.

Yeah, I couldn't even try it without that. Pics in this thread that shows how I tuned it up a little.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?27441-LCP-magazine-failure-to-seat


Forgot I had a whole thread on my experience with the gun overall:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29304-Ruger-LCP-Custom-vetting-issues

Just for context, I had to sell some ~$100 Alpinestars motorcycle gloves after one ride because the fingers proved to just be too short for my XXXL hands with long fingers. Changed to German-designed Held gloves and they work with my USP 45 FS-sized mitts.

[Duke]

CO2 Guns for killing mice ?


79882

[Malamute]

.... right up to the point that it went full Taurus, and started doing things like shedding the slide mid-string...

:)


I was out on a hike with a GF years ago, she said to go ahead so she could do some girl thing or other,....a few minutes later I hear Bang!. Hmm, I walked back to find her sitting on the ground, her Llama mini-sized 1911-ish 22 purse gun was in pieces around her, she was trying to put it back together. She had seen a squirrel and decided to shoot it, at the shot the slide launched off the frame and came apart into a couple pieces. She missed the squirrel also.


Way back the AMT Backup 380s were the cool thing. Some time later I came across one for reasonable money and picked it up, ir was heavy, clunky, didnt shoot all that well, and i dont think it was particularly reliable. I moved it down the road and went back to the 640.

A friend and I did some shooting with one of the NAA mini revolvers, it took 60 rds of CB caps, but we finally succeeded in hitting a pop can at 60 yards. With birdshot they may have some potential as a snake gun.

[TheNewbie]

The NAA micro autos interest me but I have no idea how the rate in this he reliability department.

[JCN]

A friend and I did some shooting with one of the NAA mini revolvers, it took 60 rds of CB caps, but we finally succeeded in hitting a pop can at 60 yards. With birdshot they may have some potential as a snake gun.

I sometimes think of trying to run defensive drills and practice with my NAA but then I sober up.

[Evil_Ed]

Probably a little large for a mousegun, but I wish someone would make another copy of the Mauser HSc...32acp and all. I've got a couple and I wish I could get more mags...more than that I wish I could get parts as the one I'd actually use, is probably a bit fragile at this point.

[Polecat]

I went wild several years ago and owned a bunch of the little .380s. My favorites were the kahr, Taurus TCP believe it or not! I found a TCP
32 which is sweet!

Ruger supposedly working on .32 but the LCP II .22 came out about that same time so maybe that was it? I am with les, I love the little jetfires. 9 rounds FMJ, but SO concealable, you really forget it is there. I really wish Hornady would make a good .25 like a hard conical 35 grains with bit more velocity.

[BillSWPA]

The NAA micro autos interest me but I have no idea how the rate in this he reliability department.

Reliability is not a concern with these guns. They are built to be shot a lot and carried a lot.

They are heavy for their size. Since they are straight blowback, recoil is surprisingly uncomfortable. Accuracy is not easy to achieve with the tiny sights and heavy triggers.

In the early 2000’s, the .380 was probably the best pocket gun available. However, with other better options on the market, some improvements that were available when I carried mine might not be as readily available today.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Malamute]

I sometimes think of trying to run defensive drills and practice with my NAA but then I sober up.

They are definitely better than a sharp stick or harsh words, and being super small, have some potential to be available when other things may not, or be overlooked in a disarm and pat down, but Im not sure Id want it to be the only option in time of need.

I sort of vaguely recall from years ago a girl or somebody getting out of a kidnapping by the prudent application of one of the tiny revolvers at contact distance. It was no doubt a huge surprise to the recipient.

[peterb]

If anyone wants to part with an LCP Custom, hit me up.

Why Ruger stopped making the BEST iteration of the gen1 LCP is a mystery.

It is still shown on the Ruger website. Can it be ordered?

79896

[GearFondler]

Photo luminescent sights has to be the fucking dumbest sight option ever conceived.

[JCN]

Photo luminescent sights has to be the fucking dumbest sight option ever conceived.

79906

79907

I checked and at least my LCP custom has an Ameriglo night sight.

It kind of looks like a Glock sight.

[Clusterfrack]

I was, at one point, the inveterate mousegun guy. I’ve had a bunch of them. Still sort of wish I had a TPH.

The Seecamp was astonishingly reliable (keeping in mind that the last round stovepipe is a designed feature, not a bug), but the no-sight thing ultimately wore thin. In hindsight, I should have kept it though. I’m intrigued by some of the NAA custom shop offerings; NAA .32 acp guardians with real sights and stippling, etc. Not cheap, but I bet they’re cool if they run.

The Kahr you are looking at has a good trigger, and good sights. It recoils more than one would expect out of a .380 though. The Sig P238 was a neat little gun, provided that one is ok with the SA design. I shot a 2-day intermediate handgun class with my p-238 back in the day, and I did surprisingly well—certainly holding my own against the other students with that thing. The magazines were sort of expensive.

I’ve not had good luck with the Beretta 21. Honestly, the Taurus PT-22 was more reliable, right up to the point that it went full Taurus, and started doing things like shedding the slide mid-string, or disengaging the safety if you pull the trigger… (Yay! Time saver! Bonus!).

I am intrigued by the threaded barrel Tomcat. My dad has an original recipe .32 Tomcat, and it runs fine. Possibly an option.

I dunno. I suspect that the comments about that LCP custom being the apex of obtainable mouse gun design are probably spot-on. If I find one of those things clean, used, I’m on it.

If I come into FU discretionary cash, I’ll buy a pile of German TPHs, and keep the best two out of the pile. Despite the war-hammer DA trigger on the first shot.

:)

I just sold a Walther TPH .22, which is going to fund the new mousegun. It was kind of cool, but the DA trigger was around 20#.

A while ago I had a Sig p238. It shot really well, and was the most reliable of all my 1911 type guns. Which wasn’t saying much, but the 238 was a good little gun. It is just too big for me to justify the limited capacity and caliber. And it has the wrong manual of arms for me at this point. I did use it to protect myself while mountain biking against two Rottweilers that the owner sent after me. Fortunately for everyone involved, “Don’t make me shoot your dogs.” was sufficient.

[Totem Polar]

I just sold a Walther TPH .22, which is going to fund the new mousegun. It was kind of cool, but the DA trigger was around 20#.


#chickenfucker!

Oh well, I’m not *really* in the market, and that DA is atrocious—they’re all that way. PPKs rimfires too. Yeah, I sort of dug the P238. I lugged it around in an “RKBA” pocket holster. That thing absolutely *lunched* recoil springs, though. I convinced Sig to send me 3 springs, gratis, by putting an overview of my round count logs in an email. Those RSAs were sacked by 350 or so rounds, IIRC.

I forgive you for not checking with me on the TPH first, because you’re a bro. Don’t fail me again.

;) ;) ;)

[Clusterfrack]

#chickenfucker!

I forgive you for not checking with me on the TPH first, because you’re a bro. Don’t fail me again.


Copy...

[BN]

I've carried several mouse guns over the years. A Sterling .22, a Davis derringer in .32ACP, a Beretta Model 20 in .25ACP, a KelTec P11, a Kahr PM9, and some a little bigger. I've always pocket carried. Sometimes allowances need to be made.

Reliability has been a problem at times. The P11 was very reliable until it wasn't. The Kahr was very reliable with the 6 round mag, but had nose dives on the second round with the 7 round mags. I could probably spend some money on different springs to see if I could fix them, but now I have a Glock 43 and a S&W 43c.

I just went on GunBroker looking at mouse guns. I really don't need one. ;)

[Totem Polar]

Copy...

You know that I’m yanking your dick, yes?

I still need a TPH though. West German, ideally because, I dunno… reasons?

[Clusterfrack]

You know that I’m yanking your dick, yes?

I still need a TPH though. West German, ideally because, I dunno… reasons?

Of course. How much an asshole do you think I am? Don't answer that...

Mouseguns are addictive.

[Totem Polar]

Mouseguns are addictive.

So are Ratguns….

:D

https://i.redd.it/0n7w0qipzfl41.jpg

[Flamingo]

I think RevolverRob has a mouse gun that shoots .32 NAA.

[RevolverRob]

I think RevolverRob has a mouse gun that shoots .32 NAA.

LCP 1 Gen2 with an Innovative Arms .32NAA conversion barrel. Runs well and I like it, but it's pretty tough to find .32NAA ammo these days. Good thing I've got dies and you can make the brass from .380 brass.

It's tough for me to argue with anything besides the LCP. I've tried the various small Berettas, a Baby Browning, a FN Vest Pocket, Kel-Tec P3AT. The LCP1 with the DAO trigger is still the best.

I have not tried the Kahr though. And I do like the 9mm Kahrs.

I still need to buy a Beretta 81 and convert it to .32 NAA. Should be awesome. And I'll admit, I want one of those stupid threaded Beretta Tomcats.

And I wouldn't mind getting a NAA Guardian in .32 NAA. When NAA reopens it's custom shop they'll mill them for real sights and do a factory dehorn on them.

[Flamingo]

LCP 1 Gen2 with an Innovative Arms .32NAA conversion barrel.

Runs well and I like it, but it's pretty tough to find .32NAA ammo these days. Good thing I've got dies and you can make the brass from .380 brass.

I still need to buy a Beretta 81 and and convert it to .32 NAA. Should be awesome.

If you need any 380 brass I have some you can have. I think the Beretta 81 project is cool.

[OlongJohnson]

There's a placeholder in my brain of "that would be cool" to convert a Browning 1911-380 to .32NAA. But that's getting too big for this thread.

[Totem Polar]

RevolverRob we can hang out.


If you need any 380 brass I have some you can have.

I might have a few casings to throw into the pot, too. I can’t imagine that I’ll ever reload for .380…

[RevolverRob]

If you need any 380 brass I have some you can have. I think the Beretta 81 project is cool.

That would be great! I only have about 50 pieces. I haven't owned a .380, that I shot .380 in, in years.

Now I need to actually find a Beretta 81. I'm sort of looking for one date coded to '85 as a birth year gun. But I should probably just grab whatever I can find.


There's a placeholder in my brain of "that would be cool" to convert a Browning 1911-380 to .32NAA. But that's getting too big for this thread.

Yes that would also be awesome.

But I also agree, too big for what CF is looking for. Clusterfrack, I lost the plot have you made a decision?

Oh and Totem Polar once again proving to me that he is a man of discerning taste, by also mentioning the NAA Custom Shop guns.

[Clusterfrack]

That would be great! I only have about 50 pieces. I haven't owned a .380, that I shot .380 in, in years.

Now I need to actually find a Beretta 81. I'm sort of looking for one date coded to '85 as a birth year gun. But I should probably just grab whatever I can find.



Yes that would also be awesome.

But I also agree, too big for what CF is looking for. Clusterfrack, I lost the plot have you made a decision?

Oh and Totem Polar once again proving to me that he is a man of discerning taste, by also mentioning the NAA Custom Shop guns.

If I can locate a Kahr p380, I'll give it a try. Meanwhile my LCP 1.2 is just fine.

Since USPSA needs more divisions ;), how about Mousegun division? Special scoring: Points/(Time*Weight).

[Totem Polar]

If I can locate a Kahr p380, I'll give it a try. Meanwhile my LCP 1.2 is just fine.

Since USPSA needs more divisions ;), how about Mousegun division? Special scoring: Points/(Time*Weight).

I think my LGS has one. There was one there the last time I stopped in.

[RevolverRob]

If I can locate a Kahr p380, I'll give it a try. Meanwhile my LCP 1.2 is just fine.

Since USPSA needs more divisions ;), how about Mousegun division? Special scoring: Points/(Time*Weight).

Since Mouseguns are so weak, I think only A-zone hits should count. I mean let's make it sporting. Since the first Mousegun GM is probably going to be JCN or Les...

[Clusterfrack]

I think my LGS has one. There was one there the last time I stopped in.

That's encouraging. It doesn't seem like it would be very popular because of the high price tag.

[GearFondler]

There's a placeholder in my brain of "that would be cool" to convert a Browning 1911-380 to .32NAA. But that's getting too big for this thread.Bullshit...there's no post limit here. [emoji14]
My heart loves bottleneck pistol cartridges even if my mind knows the juice is rarely worth the squeeze.

[Sal Picante]

Here's a true story involving a baby Browning...

I and my teenage buddy were backpacking in the Sierras. We had heard that there was a really aggressive black bear in the area we were planning to camp at, but there was a mountain we wanted to climb so that's where we set up our tent. Around midnight the bear showed up, and it began to trash our campsite. We did all the standard things--banged pots and pans and yelled, but this only seemed to make the bear angry. It was clearly not afraid of us in any way. I had a little Browning in my pocket, and I figured that I would fire a shot to try to scare it off. As I was getting the gun out, my buddy hit the bear squarely in the head with a softball sized piece of granite. This seriously pissed the bear off and it charged me. I ran, tripped, and lost the gun. As the bear was chasing me, my buddy picked the gun up. When he saw what it was, he screamed "Oh my GOD, it's a GUN!!!" and threw it into the bushes. The bear continued to destroy our campsite, but fortunately didn't seem interested in killing me anymore. After what seemed like an hour but was probably only seconds I found the Browning and fired off a single shot into the ground. The bear immediately stopped, and ran away. My buddy seemed more scared by the gun than by the bear, and continued to give me grief for the rest of the trip.

"former friend"...

[Sal Picante]

I desperately want to love my P32 and I think the sights are a big part of the problem for me. I saw the sights you had installed and looked into it but I have a hard time justifying the cost of the gun+ in upgrades to a Keltec. The common denominator for me and shooting well seems to be sights so I may do it anyway.

I put the sights on before Ruger came out with the LCP Max. That's probably a better option now...

The real reason I appreciate the P32 is that it weighs <10oz fully loaded. I can slip it into swimming trunks without it sagging - it's rarely left at home.

32 sucks. 380 sucks. But it is better than nothing...

[Sal Picante]

I am interested in learning more about the LCP max, but otherwise there isn't a lot here to endear any of these mouse guns to me. J frame with snake shot is something I carry part of the year, but in a second (Phlster)AIWB holster, since my front pockets are full. Twenty years ago, I Mexican carried a loved on Colt .380, hammer down behind my hip, under my tucked in shirt, with a 317 in my front pocket, but that was before AIWB was as developed as it is now.

Bro... You live where there are more bears than people. :D

Why would you carry a pocket gun? :confused:

[Sal Picante]

I sometimes think of trying to run defensive drills and practice with my NAA but then I sober up.

Right? Shooting mouseguns for drills is just no fun...

[MattyD380]

I think your memory is playing tricks on you.

I have one and it’s heavy and kind of clunky.

The PM9 trigger is better and the Boberg is actually kind of a heavy gun.

Would take a P365 over a Boberg any day of the week.

It’s also larger than the mouse gun definition in the first post.

It's no larger than a PM9. Maybe a bit smaller. I like the Kahr trigger (I have a K9) but it doesn't feel like a "real" DA to me. The Boberg did (and is). Had a good feel in the hand, too--weight notwithstanding.

[Duelist]

Bro... You live where there are more bears than people. :D

Why would you carry a pocket gun? :confused:

Arizona doesn’t have *that* many bears. That other state that starts and ends with A that George and Charlie spend part of the year in, on the other hand, doesn’t have that many snakes, so ...

[JCN]

It's no larger than a PM9. Maybe a bit smaller. I like the Kahr trigger (I have a K9) but it doesn't feel like a "real" DA to me. The Boberg did (and is). Had a good feel in the hand, too--weight notwithstanding.

You know what? You are right.

It was MY memory that was wrong.

My apologies. It’s smaller than I remember.

79924

Still heavy though. :)

79923

[Oldherkpilot]

I was out on a hike with a GF years ago, she said to go ahead so she could do some girl thing or other,....a few minutes later I hear Bang!. Hmm, I walked back to find her sitting on the ground, her Llama mini-sized 1911-ish 22 purse gun was in pieces around her, she was trying to put it back together. She had seen a squirrel and decided to shoot it, at the shot the slide launched off the frame and came apart into a couple pieces. She missed the squirrel also .

The first pistol i ever bought was a Llama miniature 1911 in .22. This was in 1977. It worked well for almost a full carton of shells. But one day the 7 round mag was empty after only 3 "shots." I tried it again, paying attention to the cases as they ejected and sure enough, it was putting out 2 and 3 round bursts with each pull of the trigger. Local gunsmith fixed the problem and i promptly sold it to him.

My wife is a pet sitter and i have assisted her in caring for a llama rescue farm. The animal version is even nastier than the firearm!

[Oldherkpilot]

Bro... You live where there are more bears than people. :D

Why would you carry a pocket gun? :confused:

One doesn't shoot the bear with the mousegun. One slows his friend down with the mousegun.😁

[UNM1136]

I got lucky with my two Kel-tecs, a P32 and a P11. My P32 is the regionally infamous couch gun. Never had a problem, the guns ran. Carried easily, had pocket clips, and the pocket clips introduced me to AIWB.

Neither has seen a lot of use. I have begun a wild, passionate love affair with my 9mm LCR. I don't see myself going back. A moon clip, a speed strip, a Philster Enigma and a City special, and maybe a nice Kramer, Nelson, or Five Shot ankle rig for duty use. I also see a .327 mag in my future, which due to ammo selection and the sixth chamber could likely replace my 9 LCR.

pat

[Clusterfrack]

The first pistol i ever bought was a Llama miniature 1911 in .22. This was in 1977. It worked well for almost a full carton of shells. But one day the 7 round mag was empty after only 3 "shots." I tried it again, paying attention to the cases as they ejected and sure enough, it was putting out 2 and 3 round bursts with each pull of the trigger. Local gunsmith fixed the problem and i promptly sold it to him.

My wife is a pet sitter and i have assisted her in caring for a llama rescue farm. The animal version is even nastier than the firearm!

Full auto mousegun... that's awesome. I couldn't agree more about llamas. Anything in the camel family is evil at heart. The more humps the more evil.

[OlongJohnson]

The first pistol i ever bought was a Llama miniature 1911 in .22. This was in 1977. It worked well for almost a full carton of shells. But one day the 7 round mag was empty after only 3 "shots." I tried it again, paying attention to the cases as they ejected and sure enough, it was putting out 2 and 3 round bursts with each pull of the trigger. Local gunsmith fixed the problem and i promptly sold it to him.

Back in the '90s, I was home from school and someone had a .22 pistol. Went out to some public land where people shot. Similarly, the pistol ended up being empty after 4 or 5 rounds. My recollection is that it wasn't actually firing doubles and triples, it was just throwing extra cartridges out on the ground. I do recall that when I looked at it to see if anything obvious made sense, it was marked for .22 Long and he'd brought .22 LR cartridges. Figured it must be something with the extra power screwing up the cycling. No idea what gun it was, as I wasn't at all into guns at the time.

[BN]

79948

I started with mouse guns at a pretty early age.

[Velo Dog]

My heart loves bottleneck pistol cartridges even if my mind knows the juice is rarely worth the squeeze.

Perhaps feeding reliability is improved, but gel testing shows little improvement in terminal ballistics over the parent cartridge.

https://northamericanarms.com/pdfs/sanow32.pdf

https://brassfetcher.com/Handguns/32%20NAA/32%20NAA.html

https://brassfetcher.com/Handguns/32%20NAA/32%20NAA/32NAAPenetration.html

[RevolverRob]

Perhaps feeding reliability is improved, but gel testing shows little improvement in terminal ballistics over the parent cartridge.

https://northamericanarms.com/pdfs/sanow32.pdf

https://brassfetcher.com/Handguns/32%20NAA/32%20NAA.html

https://brassfetcher.com/Handguns/32%20NAA/32%20NAA/32NAAPenetration.html

Yea it's not really a big bump up.

The load I need to actually work up and test is a Lehigh Extreme Cavitator https://www.lehighdefense.com/311-caliber-50gr-xtreme-cavitator-lead-free-defense-handgun-bullets.html - Just waiting to actually get some bullets from Lehigh.

Also not a ton of info on reloading .32 NAA so I have to work up a base recipe too with 71-grain FMJs.

[BN]

The mousegun thread got me thinking. I was looking at the web site where you can compare different pistols. https://www.handgunhero.com/compare/kahr-pm9-vs-smith-wesson-model-642

That Kahr is a tiny little pistol. I wish it was as reliable with the 7 round mags as it is with the 6 rounder. So I ordered some springs to see what I could do. Any advice? I thought I saw somewhere that there are different generations of mags. I carried the Kahr for a while and decided that the 7 round mags were just a handy way to carry extra rounds to top off my 6 rounder. Also, rounds would pop out of the mags when carried in my pocket.

I added some mag springs for my KelTec P11 while I was at it.

I also bid on a Ruger LCR 9mm on Gunbroker. ;)

[TGS]

Supposedly the current generation of mags don't allow the top round to work itself out if the mag is carried loose in a pocket.

My PM9 always worked fine with the 7 round mags that it came with from another P-F.com member in 2016, so no advice I can give there.

[Sal Picante]

I've got a 2015-2016 vintage 8rd Kahr magazine that was always easier to reload with. That has worked reliably.
The 6 round magazines I've got work reliably, though the base plates do disassemble when dropped on padded concrete...

My gripe with Kahr magazines, in general, is the follower "foot".
It is weak point and can break, rendering the entire magazine useless. Now granted, it only breaks when you've disassemble the magazines and are cleaning it, etc...

I found this https://lakelinellc.com/product-category/kahr-pistol-accessories/magazine-parts-accessories/ but I can't vouch for it/haven't tried it...

I'm not sure how to tell the difference of the magazine generations...

[Clusterfrack]

https://lakelinellc.com/product-category/kahr-pistol-accessories/magazine-parts-accessories/ but I can't vouch for it/haven't tried it...


Do you know if the aftermarket P380 striker (https://lakelinellc.com/shop/ultimate-striker-solution-for-kahr-380-pistols/) helps reliability?

[RevolverRob]

It used to be if you called Kahr and informed them you had mags where the top round popped loose, they would exchange them. Not sure if they still do that, but it might be worth a phone call. It is a common issue with Kahr mags in every caliber.

[Elwin]

My two 7rd mags for my CM9 have always worked, which I know is an unhelpful non-answer. I do know Wolff supports Kahr pistols so you may browse what they have to see if there's anything helpful.

I also run Pearce finger rest base pads on the 6rd mags and they help a lot with shootability without making it any harder to conceal (IWB, at least - I don't do much pocket carrying but when I do I go back to a flush mag). If I couldn't make 7rd mags work reliably, I'd be fine carrying those as a reload too.

[jd950]

I used to carry j frames as BUG/pocket-size guns, but several years ago switched the Kahrs. They carry as easily and I shoot them better. My experience is not guarantee of what another gun might do, but I have had no reliability issues with either size magazine. I also have a Kahr P380 and no problems with it either. I got it after going through S&W bodyguards and LCPs and not liking them.

I do not carry any gun until it has gone several hundred rounds without a malfunction (defective ammo aside) and with a variety of ammo. I have experienced feeding issues with some Kahrs for the first 50-100 rounds in a new gun, but that has always cleared up pretty fast. I only carry 147 grain ammo in the 9mm, unless I am forced to do otherwise.

Some people have reported problems with the magazine follower hitting the rear of feed ramp with eventual failure resulting, and the steel followers are a solution to that. I guess I have been lucky...I have not experienced this problem. If you examine your mag and the front of the follower is getting chewed up, that is an indication this could be happening. The other fix is to relieve the rear edge of the feed ramp, or so I am told.

Kahr did change the follower in their mags a few years back, and I guess the new one may be more reliable but I have never had a problem with either type. I have heard of the issue with the top round coming loose, but I don't carry mags loose in my pocket, so I have never seen this.

The .380 striker is supposedly at risk to break and Lakeline says theirs will not. My understanding is that is the only "benefit," not overall reliability. I have one of those strikers and have yet to install it.

My son also carries a Kahr and ordered a mag at a good price online. It never worked reliably, even with a spring change, and in in his gun or mine. I am not certain it is a legit Kahr mag as I never experienced that before. If it is a legit kahr product, I suspect the feed lips must have gotten jacked up or something. It is a nice tool for malfunction drills.

79987

New style follower on the right.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I had a PM-9 way back when, about the time of the introduction of the Gen 3 Glock 26s Mine was a jammer even with different mags and I had no interest in playing with it, so I sold it.

I had an LCP which was reliable but I didn't like shooting it, thus I traded it towards a G42.

That was a first issue and was a horrific jammer. It jammed solid on the first round fired and Karl Rehn had to help me free it. Bah. Later when testing it, it fired out of battery with smoke and flame coming out of the ejection port. Back to the shop and it was fixed but I'm still leary of it. My Js are more my pocket choice.

A Taurus Pt-22, a pretty chromed gun with very nice fancy wood grips. Terrible jammer - could not get through a mag. It ejected entire live rounds. It slammed shut on live round it was trying to eject and bent it in half. OMG!

Went shooting with Dave Kopel, the gun rights activist. He had a Beretta 21 something, it liked to jam.

For a true mouse gun - my NAA minis never gave me trouble but they were not serious EDC, just because guns.

[JAH 3rd]

I have the NAA-32 pistol. Had it for decades. It is .32acp with 6+1 capacity and stainless steel. Think Seecamp 32 in appearance. I vetted the pistol with JHP and FMJ bullets with 100% function. Probably at least 500 rounds through it. This thread makes me want to shoot it again. It is not competitive with the .380 and 9mm polymer pistols of today in regards to caliber and weight.

[JHC]

Here's a true story involving a baby Browning...

I and my teenage buddy were backpacking in the Sierras. We had heard that there was a really aggressive black bear in the area we were planning to camp at, but there was a mountain we wanted to climb so that's where we set up our tent. Around midnight the bear showed up, and it began to trash our campsite. We did all the standard things--banged pots and pans and yelled, but this only seemed to make the bear angry. It was clearly not afraid of us in any way. I had a little Browning in my pocket, and I figured that I would fire a shot to try to scare it off. As I was getting the gun out, my buddy hit the bear squarely in the head with a softball sized piece of granite. This seriously pissed the bear off and it charged me. I ran, tripped, and lost the gun. As the bear was chasing me, my buddy picked the gun up. When he saw what it was, he screamed "Oh my GOD, it's a GUN!!!" and threw it into the bushes. The bear continued to destroy our campsite, but fortunately didn't seem interested in killing me anymore. After what seemed like an hour but was probably only seconds I found the Browning and fired off a single shot into the ground. The bear immediately stopped, and ran away. My buddy seemed more scared by the gun than by the bear, and continued to give me grief for the rest of the trip.

And that is surely the backstory of your User Name!

[41magfan]

I've carried a pocket gun daily for over 40 yrs now and I think I've tried just about every viable semi-auto, revolver and derringer out there. Kahr, Beretta, High Standard, NAA, Browning, Colt, blah, blah, blah.

For a long time (80's-90's time frame) I carried a Beretta Mod 20 or 950 (.25 Auto) loaded with a fast moving (1200 fps) monolithic hollow-point made by PPS, Ltd. I couldn't train with it much because seven (7) rounds costs about $15 back then, which was an ass-full of money for rounds shot into a backstop.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/921/6VcaZJ.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pl6VcaZJj)

When the LCP came along in 2008, I waited a year or so till I was sure the bugs were worked out and I haven't really found anything better to date. I did move up to the updated version of the original Gen 1 design as the improved sights (slide bumps) made the gun much easier to shoot. My half-dozen samples have worked fine and they're more accurate than they need to be. The only concern I have about the LCP is durability, so I have carry guns and a single dedicated training gun.

I shoot them well enough to protect myself and carry one as a 2nd gun everyday.

The Test - Modified to 7 rounds (yanked one round)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/923/xrWrnJ.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnxrWrnJj)

Dot Torture - 5 yds - Clean

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/633/MHNoYX.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/hlMHNoYXj)

A typical LE Qualification COF - 50 rds fired at various positions from 3 to 25 yards (yanked one round)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/922/wxOlXJ.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmwxOlXJj)

[41magfan]

The gripe I hear most often about the LCP concerns the sights. If you have a grasp of soft target focus with a "silhouette" view of the sight picture, acceptable muzzle orientation isn't much of an issue ..... as long as there is decent ambient light available. My visual acuity has been in the toilet for over a decade, but I still managed to split a cardboard target in half at 3 yds on the second shot. My first shot (visible just below the good shot) just missed.


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/923/e9ntpi.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pne9ntpij)

[Doc_Glock]

41magfan Great post!

[Glenn E. Meyer]

This is shooting the old TX CHL blue bottle protocol with a NAA 1 5/8 " Mini in 22 LR

3 yards – 20 rounds fired
7 yards – 20 rounds fired
15 yards – 10 rounds fired

The dots are to enhance the shot holes.

175 is passing. I note that I shot 249 or 250 with a Glock. Got cocky on one shot!

80060


I also shot it with a NAA 22S - got about a 130 ish. Had a picture but it vanished into a couple of PCs of years of old.

[RevolverRob]

For those wanting some Mousegun Drills - I see Clauder Werner is offering his two e-books on Concealed Carry Skills and Indoor Range Drills along with a target for $7.99 - https://tacticalprofessor.wordpress.com/ - It is all ebook format. Claude is one of the few people I know of, who has put a concerted effort into developing drills and skills for small guns that are easy to access and practice by the average person.

Because mouse guns are limited capacity and limited caliber - accuracy is more important. And unfortunately these guns can be hard to hit with. Which is why I like Claude's various drills which emphasize accuracy and shot placement with small caliber guns in recognition of these facts.

[Sal Picante]

Because mouse guns are limited capacity and limited caliber - accuracy is more important. And unfortunately these guns can be hard to hit with. Which is why I like Claude's various drills which emphasize accuracy and shot placement with small caliber guns in recognition of these facts.

This is one of the big reasons I think sights on a mousegun are non-negotiable...

I took at long look at the LCP Max yesterday ... Nice gun, actually.

[Clusterfrack]

Kahr p380 inbound --purchased from a kind P-F member at a very reasonable price. I've already ordered a holster and some parts that are supposed to improve this little gun, and will report back after testing. Parts list below:

DDS Pocket Shark holster
https://discretedefensesolutions.com/shop/gun-holsters/pocket-shark-kydex-pocket-holster/
Tool steel striker
https://lakelinellc.com/shop/ultimate-striker-solution-for-kahr-380-pistols/
Steel striker guide
https://gallowayprecision.com/kahr/cw380-and-p380/stainless-steel-striker-guide-for-kahr-cw380-and-p380-pistols
Tractiongrips
https://gallowayprecision.com/traction-grip-overlays-for-kahr-cw380-and-p380-pistols
Lehigh XP 90g bullets for reliability testing
https://www.brownells.com/reloading/bullets/pistol-bullets/380-auto-0-355-90gr-extreme-penetrator-ftm-50-box-sku100031022-120349-224583.aspx

[JCN]

Kahr p380 inbound --purchased from a kind P-F member at a very reasonable price. I've already ordered a holster and some parts that are supposed to improve this little gun, and will report back after testing. Parts list below:

DDS Pocket Shark holster
https://discretedefensesolutions.com/shop/gun-holsters/pocket-shark-kydex-pocket-holster/
Tool steel striker
https://lakelinellc.com/shop/ultimate-striker-solution-for-kahr-380-pistols/
Steel striker guide
https://gallowayprecision.com/kahr/cw380-and-p380/stainless-steel-striker-guide-for-kahr-cw380-and-p380-pistols
Tractiongrips
https://gallowayprecision.com/traction-grip-overlays-for-kahr-cw380-and-p380-pistols
Lehigh XP 90g bullets for reliability testing
https://www.brownells.com/reloading/bullets/pistol-bullets/380-auto-0-355-90gr-extreme-penetrator-ftm-50-box-sku100031022-120349-224583.aspx

You’ll get a thousand different opinions and it’ll be a personal judgement.

When I played with the XP it went >20” in gel.
And looked like this in a melon (I know it’s not flesh).


https://youtu.be/KnuhpqzWkMI

Compared to an XTP

https://youtu.be/C9qkeVg01T0

[JCN]

https://youtu.be/uj6XJVtGTes

9mm Gold Dot above


https://youtu.be/ABYeKD0TbD4

10mm JHP above (Hornady maybe?)

[Clusterfrack]

You’ll get a thousand different opinions and it’ll be a personal judgement.

When I played with the XP it went >20” in gel.


Thanks for posting those videos. I've already settled on 90gr Underwood/Lehigh XP as my .380 defense load. It's what's in my LCP. Your tests are consistent with what I've read elsewhere. This load penetrates satisfactorily for defense use. As you showed, expansion is lacking. But, that's the tradeoff I'm willing to make.

[Duelist]

https://youtu.be/uj6XJVtGTes

9mm Gold Dot above


https://youtu.be/ABYeKD0TbD4

10mm JHP above (Hornady maybe?)

A 9mm GDHP will kill a deer, right now, at close range when placed in the melon or spine. I haven’t shot one in the ribs or heart with one, but expect it will still work, but probably not quite as dramatically. It will kill a rabbit the same way with any kind of vitals hit, where a round nose .22 just puts a little pinprick hole and makes them sick. .22 used for hunting should be a fast HP or flat nose, and placed precisely, it will work. I’d rather use a centerfire, most of the time. For self defense, I pretty much feel the same way about the .22 as I do for hunting.

I load GDHP or HST in my 9mm GLOCKs. Airweight J gets FGMM wadcutters, because those don’t suck to shoot and kill game pretty well, too. Steel .38s get Winchester 130gr Ranger bonded because I bought a bunch a few years ago and haven’t seen a reason to change. .380 gets ball or Hornady JHP.

[RevolverRob]

Kahr p380 inbound --purchased from a kind P-F member at a very reasonable price. I've already ordered a holster and some parts that are supposed to improve this little gun, and will report back after testing. Parts list below:

DDS Pocket Shark holster
https://discretedefensesolutions.com/shop/gun-holsters/pocket-shark-kydex-pocket-holster/
Tool steel striker
https://lakelinellc.com/shop/ultimate-striker-solution-for-kahr-380-pistols/
Steel striker guide
https://gallowayprecision.com/kahr/cw380-and-p380/stainless-steel-striker-guide-for-kahr-cw380-and-p380-pistols
Tractiongrips
https://gallowayprecision.com/traction-grip-overlays-for-kahr-cw380-and-p380-pistols
Lehigh XP 90g bullets for reliability testing
https://www.brownells.com/reloading/bullets/pistol-bullets/380-auto-0-355-90gr-extreme-penetrator-ftm-50-box-sku100031022-120349-224583.aspx

I'll be interested in the pocket shark holster. I bought an Aholster and found it worked well once I added something to break up the outline. I love the speed of the Aholster but not the concealment.

[Clusterfrack]

I'll be interested in the pocket shark holster. I bought an Aholster and found it worked well once I added something to break up the outline. I love the speed of the Aholster but not the concealment.

I have one for my LCP1.2, with a Victor Grippy Gun Band (https://victorcompanyusa.com/grippy-gun-bands) added to provide better retention. It's the best pocket solution I've found.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211112/6a9fa902378ceaba9abf2f8eceb041d4.jpg

[RevolverRob]

I have one for my LCP1.2, with a Victor Grippy Gun Band (https://victorcompanyusa.com/grippy-gun-bands) added to provide better retention. It's the best pocket solution I've found.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211112/6a9fa902378ceaba9abf2f8eceb041d4.jpg

Interesting...might give that a shot. I out foam on the AHolster Foam breaks up the outline a lot, but it's clear SOMETHING is in your pocket.

80099

80100

[Clusterfrack]

Interesting...might give that a shot.

It's only $30. I like that I can get a full grip inside the pocket. And it's almost as thin as the gun itself.

[DDTSGM]

I'll be interested in the pocket shark holster. I bought an Aholster and found it worked well once I added something to break up the outline. I love the speed of the Aholster but not the concealment.


I have one for my LCP1.2, with a Victor Grippy Gun Band (https://victorcompanyusa.com/grippy-gun-bands) added to provide better retention. It's the best pocket solution I've found.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211112/6a9fa902378ceaba9abf2f8eceb041d4.jpg

Question for you guys - I carry my LCP pretty fulltime with a DeSantis Nemesis Holster. In looking at the photos of all three, I don't see what makes any of the three more concealable in a pocket, you still have that grip sticking out. Does the square body of the pocket shark make that much of a difference?

DeSantis Nemesis:

https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-r31ah3s0ci/images/stencil/160w/products/203/943/N38_XDS__03265.1525794290.jpg?c=3

Pocket Shark:

https://discretedefensesolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/photo.jpg

AHolster:

https://i0.wp.com/aholster.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/AutoandRevolverPocket.jpg?fit=615%2C410&ssl=1

[Clusterfrack]

Dan Lehr,

Here’s an in pocket pic, trying to show the profile. I think it does break it up a bit.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211117/d9c008e0e9550dae75dfc8241baf78bc.jpg

[RevolverRob]

Question for you guys - I carry my LCP pretty fulltime with a DeSantis Nemesis Holster. In looking at the photos of all three, I don't see what makes any of the three more concealable in a pocket, you still have that grip sticking out. Does the square body of the pocket shark make that much of a difference?

DeSantis Nemesis:

https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-r31ah3s0ci/images/stencil/160w/products/203/943/N38_XDS__03265.1525794290.jpg?c=3

Pocket Shark:

https://discretedefensesolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/photo.jpg

AHolster:

https://i0.wp.com/aholster.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/AutoandRevolverPocket.jpg?fit=615%2C410&ssl=1

So a lot of it is a matter of pants pockets + holster curve. The Nemesis if sat on a table is flat. It'll take a curve after awhile, but it starts out flat and thin. The material doesn't break up the outline of the holster much at all, but when carried in jeans or dark slacks with a heavier fabric, you won't notice.

The AHolster has a curve to it, a bit too much, in my opinion. When sat on a table with the gunside down it will curve up. This helps it fit into pockets like those found in a lot of khakis and outdoor pants. Where the pocket sits lower and more towards the front of the hip.

My hip shape is pretty round and guns are not. So, a holster that matches my hip will make a gun print all day long. Hence, I need a flatter shape with a gentle curve. I added foam to my aholster so it now looks like a big wallet in my front pocket. You can't tell it's a gun, but you can tell it's something.

Pocket Concealment Systems has a nice break down of different shapes for different shape pockets. Like a belt holster, no, in fact like an appendix holster, no unlike any other holster, the pocket holster probably benefits the most from tailoring the cut of the holster to the pocket. The downside to that is potentially needing to practice different drawstrokes.

One benefit to the AHolster, the upper little claw across the top of the gun reliably catches the top edge of a slash pocket. Making for an extremely reliable and fast draw.

[JAH 3rd]

Dan Lehr,

Here’s an in pocket pic, trying to show the profile. I think it does break it up a bit.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211117/d9c008e0e9550dae75dfc8241baf78bc.jpg

That's they way my S&W 340PD looks in my front right pocket. I use an Uncle Mikes holster, #3. I carry my wallet in the front left pocket. It gives a balanced look. But the reason I carry my wallet up front is it helps my back not ache at the end of the day. A friend told me he had a back ache, moved his wallet to front pocket, and it did help his ache.....YMMV.

[JWH]

So a lot of it is a matter of pants pockets + holster curve. The Nemesis if sat on a table is flat. It'll take a curve after awhile, but it starts out flat and thin. The material doesn't break up the outline of the holster much at all, but when carried in jeans or dark slacks with a heavier fabric, you won't notice.

Another consideration for pocket carry is leg size/shape. When I was in college, I pocket carried almost exclusively. As I started lifting, my thighs grew and I find I cannot get the level of concealment I desire from pocket carry anymore.

[HeavyDuty]

I’ve always had mouseguns around. In approximate order of acquisition:


A .22 inspired by the PPK, a piece of pot metal crap ca. 1983 or so, I don’t remember the brand. It could never get through a whole mag without jamming, so it was quickly sold.
Seecamp .32. I was very short of money after getting married, so it was sold for a tidy profit. I only had it a year or so.
NAA mini .22. This one replaced the Seecamp and got a lot of watch pocket carry before IL was CCW. I still have it but haven’t used it in many years.
Beretta 950 in .25. My usual pocket carry pistol pre IL CCW.
Ruger LCP Gen1. I picked this up around the time IL got carry, and I put a lot of miles on it. I still have it.


All have been superseded for most uses by a Glock 42 in the pocket.

[Navin Johnson]

Dan Lehr,

Here’s an in pocket pic, trying to show the profile. I think it does break it up a bit.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211117/d9c008e0e9550dae75dfc8241baf78bc.jpg

Gun sits too low. So it prints bad. Needs to be up where leg bends/pelvis area. (In the indent) Likely need different pants.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

So, it's colder and my standard jacket is a EverTherm Down Jacket from Eddie Bauer. It will handle most unless we get real nasty. It does make a belt based gun hard to get to. You could walk around with it unzipped. Horrors - the Internet says everyone will know I'm a gun nutso. It's ok with a nice heavy flannel shirt when it's 40 deg but colder, I need it zipped.

My area is very, very low crime - but you never know. I don't do convenience stores, but do gas stations in the small nice town. I'll add my SW 432 but here's the problem. The jacket is so light weight - which is why I like it, that if you put the gun in the side pocket and try to draw (with DeSantis pocket holster) the jacket comes up with the gun. Oops. Thus, it goes in my off side pocket - my everyday nasty pants are Duluth various cargo pants which are very comfy and so far ok in the colder weather. Haven't switched to lined pants yet.

I've been watching a 327 Mag LCR but do I want to spend the money. Does carrying full bore 327 get me anything? I note that firing such in a stainless, with hammer, 3 inch SW 632 is rather a BOOM with significant recoil.

If I have to wear my -40 Deg jacket, then that beast is a heavy long garment and no pocket movement complications.

[Clusterfrack]

Gun sits too low. So it prints bad. Needs to be up where leg bends/pelvis area. (In the indent) Likely need different pants.

Those are the Prana pants I wear to my combatives group. And I was making the LCP print to show how the Pocket Shark breaks up the outline.

But good point. I may not wear pants that lend themselves to pocket carry of a snubby.

[Doc_Glock]

Question for you guys - I carry my LCP pretty fulltime with a DeSantis Nemesis Holster.


I have tried a ton of pocket holsters and keep coming back to the Nemesis for LCP and LCP max (and now BG380).

For revolvers and G42 I like the Safariland model 25. But I rarely if ever carry those.

[Chuck Whitlock]

While I would never have gone out and paid for one, I won a Taurus TCP .380 as a door price years ago. This one has the blackened stainless slide.
I guess the angels smiled upon me, because it has functioned 100% so far, 20-, 25-, 50- rounds at a time with ball, Critical Defense, and XTP. Currently using XTP for carry, but I'm interested in the HydraShok Deep when it becomes available.
It is now a left front pocket BUG at work, as cover garments aren't a thing in that situation. a DeSantis Nemesis behind a PocketShield has solved the magazine releasing in the pocket. A J-frame or LCR would just be too thick to work.

If I were mousegun shopping today, the LCP Max would be at the top of the list.

[JCN]

You guys have me thinking about buying an XYZ table and milling and drilling a P32 for Glock sights.

[Sal Picante]

You guys have me thinking about buying an XYZ table and milling and drilling a P32 for Glock sights.

Innovative arms already does that... The sights are nice enough.

[JCN]

Innovative arms already does that... The sights are nice enough.

That’s where I got the idea!

[4given]

The only real mousegun I now own anymore is a Keltec p32 with the nickel boron slide. I load it with Fiocchi 73gr FMJ and have no issues. I carry it it when I can't carry anything else. It actually shoots really well for what it is. Recoil is very manageable and I can keep all my shots on target at close ranges. I did put a Pachmayr grip sleeve on it and that helps. I pocket carri it in a Desantis Nemesis. pocket holster.

Also the little FMJ penetrates pretty well. https://www.luckygunner.com/fiocchi-32-acp-ammo-for-sale-32auto73fmjfiocchi-50#geltest I sold all my 380 ACP mouseguns after I purchased this P-32 as it seems to penetrate deeply as needed, holds one more shot than the standard LCP's and the slide stays open on the last shot.

I am glad somebody makes a pistol so small, so light, and so easy to shoot chambered in something that 22lr. Mine has been very reliable so far. Just load it with the longer European FMJ's and you should be OK.

As I type this, I am pocket carrying a Sig 365 in a sticky holster. Not really a mouse gun but I find this set up works for me most of the time as long as I dress around it. Really comfortable way to carry 11 rounds of 9mm in a very shootable pistol. You do need a good belt or suspenders to keep your pants up though.

[DDTSGM]

Dan Lehr,

Here’s an in pocket pic, trying to show the profile. I think it does break it up a bit.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211117/d9c008e0e9550dae75dfc8241baf78bc.jpg

Thanks for taking the time to take and post that. I agree.

Most folks probably don't see that silhouette and immediately think 'gun.'

[DDTSGM]

So a lot of it is a matter of pants pockets + holster curve. The Nemesis if sat on a table is flat. It'll take a curve after awhile, but it starts out flat and thin. The material doesn't break up the outline of the holster much at all, but when carried in jeans or dark slacks with a heavier fabric, you won't notice.

The AHolster has a curve to it, a bit too much, in my opinion. When sat on a table with the gunside down it will curve up. This helps it fit into pockets like those found in a lot of khakis and outdoor pants. Where the pocket sits lower and more towards the front of the hip.

My hip shape is pretty round and guns are not. So, a holster that matches my hip will make a gun print all day long. Hence, I need a flatter shape with a gentle curve. I added foam to my aholster so it now looks like a big wallet in my front pocket. You can't tell it's a gun, but you can tell it's something.

Pocket Concealment Systems has a nice break down of different shapes for different shape pockets. Like a belt holster, no, in fact like an appendix holster, no unlike any other holster, the pocket holster probably benefits the most from tailoring the cut of the holster to the pocket. The downside to that is potentially needing to practice different drawstrokes.

One benefit to the AHolster, the upper little claw across the top of the gun reliably catches the top edge of a slash pocket. Making for an extremely reliable and fast draw.

Thanks to you for taking the time to respond.

When you say 'foam' exactly what type are you talking about? From your picture it looks to me as if you fastened the foam to the AHolster using the bottom eyelet, did you also glue or otherwise secure?

Thanks.

I've never had anyone ask me what I'm carrying when I've had my LCP in my pocket. Of course, that doesn't mean someone hasn't made me.

[TheNewbie]

Those are the Prana pants I wear to my combatives group. And I was making the LCP print to show how the Pocket Shark breaks up the outline.

But good point. I may not wear pants that lend themselves to pocket carry of a snubby.


My Old Navy jeans do not inhibit me, I even can squat heavy weights in them. Of course I don’t buy the “why don’t the chicks dig my emaciated legs?” skinny jeans model. The boot cut work really well, and allow for carry of a decent sized revolver. If I had to hike in them, it would be far from the end of the world.

I’m boring and jeans work for me, but I get they don’t work for everyone and they are not everyone’s style.

[alohadoug]

I've been pocket carrying a Bodyguard (M&P post laser version) as my primary for a couple of years now. I live in a suburb of Boston (and can count on one hand the number of times I've been to the city in ten years) so living the j frame lifestyle works. I'm also in and out of prohibited places quite often so I wanted something that I can stick in my truck safe with minimal fuss. Primary holster is a Nemesis but I also have both square and round bottom holsters from Mika that I use depending on the picket shape of the shorts/pants. I'm usually wearing jeans from LL Bean or shorts from 5.11.



I've been watching a 327 Mag LCR but do I want to spend the money?
Or you can trade your 432 for my LCR...😉
I'm looking at moving into the .32 family (have several historic in .32S&W Long) and tried the LCR but it didn't work for me. Now I'm looking for a 432.

Aloha

[RevolverRob]

Thanks to you for taking the time to respond.

When you say 'foam' exactly what type are you talking about? From your picture it looks to me as if you fastened the foam to the AHolster using the bottom eyelet, did you also glue or otherwise secure?

Thanks.

I've never had anyone ask me what I'm carrying when I've had my LCP in my pocket. Of course, that doesn't mean someone hasn't made me.

Just high density sheet foam like you can buy at a hobby store. It is only fastened with the screw through the eyelet. This is so it doesn't impede getting a hand on the gun.

80136

80137

80138

And just so folks get an idea here is after drawing the gun straight out, the upper kydex hook pulls the holster off:

80139

[DDTSGM]

Just high density sheet foam like you can buy at a hobby store. It is only fastened with the screw through the eyelet. This is so it doesn't impede getting a hand on the gun.

80136

80137

80138

And just so folks get an idea here is after drawing the gun straight out, the upper kydex hook pulls the holster off:

80139

Thanks again.

[Joe in PNG]

I've been pocket toting tiny guns for ages, everything from a Glock 27 to a PPK to a pair of Baby Brownings.

My current pocket gun of choice is a Shield 1.0 with CT Lightguard. It's doable, but a bit on the bulky side.

I'm very interested in a S&W Bodyguard .380 as a BUG, as it's not that much bigger than a Baby Browning, but it's got a bit more punch than a .25, and is probably less likely to go bang by accident.

[jandbj]

It is still shown on the Ruger website. Can it be ordered?

79896

Found a like new one with CT laser and 2 mags on funbroker. Cost me $355 shipped.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/915045993

Back down the mouse hole I go.

[RevolverRob]

I've been pocket toting tiny guns for ages, everything from a Glock 27 to a PPK to a pair of Baby Brownings.

My current pocket gun of choice is a Shield 1.0 with CT Lightguard. It's doable, but a bit on the bulky side.

I'm very interested in a S&W Bodyguard .380 as a BUG, as it's not that much bigger than a Baby Browning, but it's got a bit more punch than a .25, and is probably less likely to go bang by accident.

I think Doc_Glock is running one of those now (IIRC).

Would be interested to see how it compares to the LCP.

[parishioner]

Browsing around online I came across a post from October stating the Kel-Tec P3AT will be produced for one more run and then discontinued as they plan to introduce another .380 at SHOT in attempt to compete with Rugers latest offerings. I haven’t been able to locate one from the major online retailers so seems like it’s plausible.

However the P32 will still continue to be produced the post said FWIW.

[Leroy Suggs]

My "mouseguns" and holsters.

G26.5 in the cordavan. G43 in black.
Both PCS Blackbirds.

Both look the same in the pants as shown in pic.

80254


80255


8025680256

I will not carry less than 9mm or smaller than the 43.

[Clusterfrack]

My "mouseguns" and holsters.


I’m calling those out as at
least ratguns :)

[Totem Polar]

I’m calling those out as at
least ratguns :)

Gopher Glocks.

[LJP]

I have a RM380. Doubt they’re still made after the bankruptcy. It is the same size as an LCP and just a tad thicker. Tough to find holsters for, but I had Aholster make me a pocket holster for it in trade for a blue gun model of it. I tend to reach for a j-frame when I attempt pocket carry these days, but my RM380 has over 500 rounds through it without major issue. Sights are vestigial, but there. For my small stature, pocket carry is almost a non starter, much to my dismay.
80268
80267
80269

[Doc_Glock]

I think @Doc_Glock (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=12978) is running one of those now (IIRC).

Would be interested to see how it compares to the LCP.

I am only just getting to know the BG 380.

Compared to the LCP (classic version):
BG seems better built.
BG is harder to shoot fast. 8 vs 6 lb trigger.
BG has a pretty classic DAO trigger which completely de-energizes ignition system of the pistol.
LCP has a half cocked DA type trigger no second strike capability. But shorter lighter stroke than the BG.
BG has better sights.

Not sure either is compellingly “better” would just buy the trigger you like.

[Doc_Glock]

I have a RM380. Doubt they’re still made after the bankruptcy. It is the same size as an LCP and just a tad thicker. Tough to find holsters for, but I had Aholster make me a pocket holster for it in trade for a blue gun model of it. I tend to reach for a j-frame when I attempt pocket carry these days, but my RM380 has over 500 rounds through it without major issue. Sights are vestigial, but there. For my small stature, pocket carry is almost a non starter, much to my dismay.
80268
80267
80269

I went searching for one of those a year ago and never found one, and would love to
try one. I had the Rohrbaugh 9mm version and it was jewelry and this seems like an improvement on the design.

Plus DAO.

[mmc45414]

Kahr p380 inbound --purchased from a kind P-F member at a very reasonable price.
He might be kind, or he might be trying to financially atone for the tactical shotgun frenzy that led to the impulsive purchase of a 590 that was followed three weeks later by the unbudgeted purchase of a 1301T that leaves him thinking that if he sold a few more underutilized gun, archery and paddling items he might even be able to put a 1301C into the mix, whoever he is...

[Clusterfrack]

He might be kind, or he might be trying to financially atone for the tactical shotgun frenzy that led to the impulsive purchase of a 590 that was followed three weeks later by the unbudgeted purchase of a 1301T that leaves him thinking that if he sold a few more underutilized gun, archery and paddling items he might even be able to put a 1301C into the mix, whoever he is...

Your financial atonement is feeding my mousegun habit

[GearFondler]

Your financial atonement is feeding my mousegun habitDude... Not cool. You totally outed him.

[MickAK]

Am I nuts to consider it?

Yes.
80281
Not off topic though. You could put like, 10 mouseguns in there if you wanted. Juggle them to display proficiency and deter attackers.

The problem with mouseguns is that other than a situation where you have to duct tape one to your taint, people have figured out a better way to just have a better gun. I don't actually know anything about the Orvis bag but the Vertx ones work pretty well and they're all similar in mechanics.

[Leroy Suggs]

I actually do have 2 real mouseguns.
A P3AT and an LCP 22lr.
But like MickAK says I've figured out a way to have a better gun.

[jandbj]

80672

Shoots pretty darn well. Using either the factory “custom” sights or the laser.

Pretty good little gun to carry when you don’t carry a gun.

[WobblyPossum]

For the AHolster fans, do any of them have any level of retention? I love my AHolster for my G26 but wish it held onto the gun a bit better. The G26 once fell completely out of my pocket while I was lounging on the couch. The pocket retained the holster but the holster didn’t retain the gun. I’m transitioning to a P365 and am looking for a pocket holster. Does anyone know if the P365 AHolster holds on to the gun any better? If not I might have to start looking at leather.

[Polecat]

What happend to the supposed Ruger .32 “keltec, I guess it would have been basically an LCP in .32. I would love one in .32 as it would be more comfortable to shoot and better than the keltec. Hope they are considering it.

[Leroy Suggs]

For the AHolster fans, do any of them have any level of retention? I love my AHolster for my G26 but wish it held onto the gun a bit better. The G26 once fell completely out of my pocket while I was lounging on the couch. The pocket retained the holster but the holster didn’t retain the gun. I’m transitioning to a P365 and am looking for a pocket holster. Does anyone know if the P365 AHolster holds on to the gun any better? If not I might have to start looking at leather.

From my experience all the Aholsters have little to no retention.
The PCS Blackbird works well for me with a G26 and a G43.

80686

[BillSWPA]

For the AHolster fans, do any of them have any level of retention? I love my AHolster for my G26 but wish it held onto the gun a bit better. The G26 once fell completely out of my pocket while I was lounging on the couch. The pocket retained the holster but the holster didn’t retain the gun. I’m transitioning to a P365 and am looking for a pocket holster. Does anyone know if the P365 AHolster holds on to the gun any better? If not I might have to start looking at leather.

Pocket holsters can only have a limited amount of retention. Unlike a belt holster, they are not anchored to anything. Too much retention would make drawing the gun unreliable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Clusterfrack]

Here's what I use to add a bit of retention to my pocket holster:


http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161008/61e57eb44c67f05bef523bb39dac6a55.jpg
LCP Gen2 in Pocket Shark holster (http://discretedefensesolutions.com) with Victor Grippy Gun Band
http://shop.victorcompanyusa.com/GRIPPY-GUN-BAND-3-PACK-VC-GRIPPY-BAND.htm

[RevolverRob]

My Aholster has plenty of retention. I can push it off with my thumb, but only by changing my grip and using the meat of my thumb, not just the distal phalanx. It has a fairly well-defined kydex "pop" when I both insert the gun and draw.

If your AHolster isn't retaining the gun well enough, you might try contacting AHolster about it.

But recognize you're always going to have retention issues with butt heavy "ratguns" like the G26 or 365. Those are big chunks of steel to stick in your pocket.

[WobblyPossum]

Here's what I use to add a bit of retention to my pocket holster:
That’s pretty smart. I’ll give it a try. I think I have a ranger band or two somewhere.


My Aholster has plenty of retention. I can push it off with my thumb, but only by changing my grip and using the meat of my thumb, not just the distal phalanx. It has a fairly well-defined kydex "pop" when I both insert the gun and draw.

If your AHolster isn't retaining the gun well enough, you might try contacting AHolster about it.

But recognize you're always going to have retention issues with butt heavy "ratguns" like the G26 or 365. Those are big chunks of steel to stick in your pocket.
Interesting. My AHolster has absolutely no retention, whether friction or the kydex pop from being molded around the trigger guard. I’ll reach out to the company. I’m not looking for the same kind of retention you get in a kydex belt holster, but just enough that if I lay down on the couch and roll over, gravity doesn’t pull the gun out of the holster with no resistance.

[Clusterfrack]

I shot a little over 100 rounds through the Kahr p380. I like this gun much better than my LCP 1.2. The ergos are way better: lower bore axis and more grip, yet similar size. The Kahr is actually smaller than the LCP but feels much bigger.

Underwood/Lehigh XP +p 90gr chronoed at 1000fps out of the p380.

The gun still feels a bit unfamiliar. I played with pocket draws and was around 0.6x. A clean 5yd Bill was 2.20s. 0.24 splits seemed manageable even with the long trigger pull.

The sights are usable, and hitting 8” plate at 25 yds was totally doable with some care.

Two mouse thumbs up!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211201/81ab0194b695d20dce6aa13d1135454b.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211201/d76bfd8dd17cd97d88c3365b057fce3e.jpg

[Clusterfrack]

Here are the parts I’ve added to the Kahr p380:

Tool steel striker
https://lakelinellc.com/shop/ultimate-striker-solution-for-kahr-380-pistols/

Striker guide
https://gallowayprecision.com/kahr/cw380-and-p380/stainless-steel-striker-guide-for-kahr-cw380-and-p380-pistols

[Totem Polar]

I think I need a P380.

[WobblyPossum]

Clusterfrack the ranger band around the holster seems to be working very well. That was a great idea. Thanks.

[JAH 3rd]

For the AHolster fans, do any of them have any level of retention? I love my AHolster for my G26 but wish it held onto the gun a bit better. The G26 once fell completely out of my pocket while I was lounging on the couch. The pocket retained the holster but the holster didn’t retain the gun. I’m transitioning to a P365 and am looking for a pocket holster. Does anyone know if the P365 AHolster holds on to the gun any better? If not I might have to start looking at leather.

Just opining here. I have two gen 5 Glocks, a 17 and 26. To me their finish is a bit slippery compared to my gen 3 Glock 21. I wonder if the finish on gen 5 models affect a holster's ability to hold onto the pistol. As an aside, I carry my S&W 340PD in an Uncle Mike's size 3 holster in my front right pocket. Revolver stays put and the holster stays in the pocket when the revolver is drawn. I know I'm comparing apples to oranges.

[WobblyPossum]

Just opining here. I have two gen 5 Glocks, a 17 and 26. To me their finish is a bit slippery compared to my gen 3 Glock 21. I wonder if the finish on gen 5 models affect a holster's ability to hold onto the pistol. As an aside, I carry my S&W 340PD in an Uncle Mike's size 3 holster in my front right pocket. Revolver stays put and the holster stays in the pocket when the revolver is drawn. I know I'm comparing apples to oranges.

The G26 I use the most is a Gen4 so it wouldn’t be the case here. I’ve had Gen5 Glocks since the originals with the front strap cutout were released and I haven’t seen them have retention issues in any of my holsters compared to prior generations.

[JCN]

For the AHolster fans, do any of them have any level of retention? I love my AHolster for my G26 but wish it held onto the gun a bit better. The G26 once fell completely out of my pocket while I was lounging on the couch. The pocket retained the holster but the holster didn’t retain the gun. I’m transitioning to a P365 and am looking for a pocket holster. Does anyone know if the P365 AHolster holds on to the gun any better? If not I might have to start looking at leather.


Just opining here. I have two gen 5 Glocks, a 17 and 26. To me their finish is a bit slippery compared to my gen 3 Glock 21. I wonder if the finish on gen 5 models affect a holster's ability to hold onto the pistol. As an aside, I carry my S&W 340PD in an Uncle Mike's size 3 holster in my front right pocket. Revolver stays put and the holster stays in the pocket when the revolver is drawn. I know I'm comparing apples to oranges.

My Aholster backbone has some retention for my J frame.

Just talking about what I know about Kydex from a number of experimental endeavors, the friction fit is susceptible to oils and lubricants and wear just like anything else.

The steps to increase tension in them are as follows:
1. Clean gun and holster with alcohol.
2. Rough up mating surfaces in the holster with a file if desired.
3. Localized heat to a hinge point and squeeze a little.

I tend to do a fair amount of heat modification to kydex holsters either to increase or decrease tension.

I personally like a brûlée torch with VERY quick passes in a line that I’m trying to modify. I like it better than a diffuse heat gun because I’m able to heat just a very thin strip for hinge points without turning the side of the holster into a relaxed blob like can happen if you heat too wide of an area with a heat gun.

[4RNR]

I shot a little over 100 rounds through the Kahr p380. I like this gun much better than my LCP 1.2. The ergos are way better: lower bore axis and more grip, yet similar size. The Kahr is actually smaller than the LCP but feels much bigger.

Underwood/Lehigh XP +p 90gr chronoed at 1000fps out of the p380.

The gun still feels a bit unfamiliar. I played with pocket draws and was around 0.6x. A clean 5yd Bill was 2.20s. 0.24 splits seemed manageable even with the long trigger pull.

The sights are usable, and hitting 8” plate at 25 yds was totally doable with some care.

Two mouse thumbs up!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211201/81ab0194b695d20dce6aa13d1135454b.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211201/d76bfd8dd17cd97d88c3365b057fce3e.jpgInteresting. I don't think I can get the gun out of my pocket that fast let alone do a clean drill. Part of what i like about my lcp, doesn't NEED a holster. For quick trips during cold weather I just toss it in a pocket of a jacket or sweatshirt.

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[APS-PF]

My AHolster has absolutely no retention, whether friction or the kydex pop from being molded around the trigger guard. I’ll reach out to the company. I’m not looking for the same kind of retention you get in a kydex belt holster, but just enough that if I lay down on the couch and roll over, gravity doesn’t pull the gun out of the holster with no resistance.

I use a ranger band (just a slice of bike tire innertube) around my aholster to give a little more retension. Place it around the trigger guard area and check it to make sure it doesn't ride up, mine doesn't.

[Clusterfrack]

Interesting. I don't think I can get the gun out of my pocket that fast let alone do a clean drill. Part of what i like about my lcp, doesn't NEED a holster. For quick trips during cold weather I just toss it in a pocket of a jacket or sweatshirt.


I wasn't clear about the draw times. 0.6x was for fast shots out of the pocket. Bill had a 1.00s first shot because I needed to get a good grip. I usually find Mouseguns really hard to shoot fast, and was surprised the p380 didn't feel as hard to control. I didn't have enough .380 ammo to shoot a lot of drills, unfortunately.

For some reason, a DAO auto loose in a pocket creeps me out while a snubby doesn't. I can't think of a rational reason for that.

[Doc_Glock]

I think I need a P380.

I thought so to, gave it a try and it was an unreliable dog. Seems spotty like most small Kahr's some work and some don't and I can't figure why?

At this point I don't forsee moving on from the LCP MAX. ~1400 trouble free rounds minimal maintenance.

[41magfan]

I thought so to, gave it a try and it was an unreliable dog. Seems spotty like most small Kahr's some work and some don't and I can't figure why?

At this point I don't forsee moving on from the LCP MAX. ~1400 trouble free rounds minimal maintenance.

That was my Kahr experience, as well. I bought two P380's and they were both turds. One went back to factory 4 or 5 times (the other one went back once) with differing problems arising the more I shot it. They eventually replaced it with a new gun (turns out the frame was cracked) and it was a turd, too. I found it a bit troubling to find out that in my limited magazine inventory (about 8-10 mags) there were three different iterations of magazines - and none of them were reliable.

I loved the ergonomics and performance (when they worked) but I couldn't trust them any farther than I could throw them. I wasted a lot of time and $$$ on those two pistols. In total contrast, one of my LE comrades owns 4 or 5 Kahr pistols (.380, 9mm, .45) and they ALL run like a Swiss watch. It just so happened that I shot every one of them right out of the box with no issues whatsoever.

If I was going to dip my toe in the Kahr waters again it would be a CW380 - they're a good bit cheaper and offer just as much utility for my purposes.

[Clusterfrack]

I thought so to, gave it a try and it was an unreliable dog. Seems spotty like most small Kahr's some work and some don't and I can't figure why?

At this point I don't forsee moving on from the LCP MAX. ~1400 trouble free rounds minimal maintenance.

I was worried about reliability. I’ve avoided Kahr in the past for that reason. After exploring the design of the p380, I have a few observations.

While it’s superficially Glock-like, the gun requires 1911-levels of lubrication. The slide stop-barrel lower lug interface may be important to lube to prevent FTRB. I’m planning on lightly polishing the inside of the lug with a q-tip spun on a drill.

It will not feed reliably with long rounds. I did not observe issues with bullet shape, just OAL and length to ‘ogive’ at the feed ramp.

The nice big slide stop makes reloads easy without slingshotting, but if you bump it while firing, that can cause a malfunction.

The mags are excellent for such a small gun. The length is very generous for 6 rounds, and the springs feed strongly.

Overall, I’m impressed with the design. But, I don’t think it’s as out-of-the box reliable as a Glock.

[Totem Polar]

I think I don’t need a P380.

[Clusterfrack]

I think I don’t need a P380.

LOL!

[JWH]

Interesting. I don't think I can get the gun out of my pocket that fast let alone do a clean drill. Part of what i like about my lcp, doesn't NEED a holster. For quick trips during cold weather I just toss it in a pocket of a jacket or sweatshirt.

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

Some years ago, one of the gun magazines, either Guns or American Handgunner ran a story about how a holsterless p32 and a forgotten keychain led to an accidental discharge at a gas station. Please use a holster.

[4RNR]

Some years ago, one of the gun magazines, either Guns or American Handgunner ran a story about how a holsterless p32 and a forgotten keychain led to an accidental discharge at a gas station. Please use a holster.I don't carry anything in front pockets except for some loose change and I have 2 pockets for that. The one thing I absolutely cannot stand is anything in front pockets. Anything more than a random paper receipt and some change. Not even a cell phone. I'll carry that in hand all day vs using the front pocket.

There are certain situations when I will front pocket carry a gun for more than a few minutes but those are very very very very very rare. Like maybe once every few years and those involve a holster.

Otherwise its in a jacket pocket or something.

I don't know how much crap people typically carry but except for wallet, gun, and cell phone I'm done. Wallet back pocket. Cell phone in the inside pocket of a jacket or the other back pocket. Gun ISWB.

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[Clusterfrack]

Some years ago, one of the gun magazines, either Guns or American Handgunner ran a story about how a holsterless p32 and a forgotten keychain led to an accidental discharge at a gas station. Please use a holster.

My policy is nothing else should be in the pocket even with a holstered gun. Another reason I prefer a holster is to keep the gun oriented properly. I don't want to go for an emergency draw and find the gun upside down.

[Shawn Dodson]

For the AHolster fans, do any of them have any level of retention? I love my AHolster for my G26 but wish it held onto the gun a bit better. The G26 once fell completely out of my pocket while I was lounging on the couch. The pocket retained the holster but the holster didn’t retain the gun. I’m transitioning to a P365 and am looking for a pocket holster. Does anyone know if the P365 AHolster holds on to the gun any better? If not I might have to start looking at leather.

I have Vedder Pocket Locker holsters for my G42 and G43. It's Kydex and retains the pistol inside the holster very well.

I recently got a PCS Blackbird for the G43. My only complaint with it is I cannot acquire a shooting grip with it. I'll have to trim leather below the trigger guard area to provide enough clearance for my middle finger to slide between the holster and front-strap (my middle knuckle snags on the leather in this area). Once I make the modification I'll spend more time practicing with it. Being a new holster it seems to adequately retain the pistol. That may change with use and wear.

Good luck!

[Clusterfrack]

The slide stop-barrel lower lug interface may be important to lube to prevent FTRB. I’m planning on lightly polishing the inside of the lug with a q-tip spun on a drill.


Confirmed. The p380 now locks into battery smoothly, without the ‘hitch’.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211201/be1b1a25e7e0b017fc75e7896f3fa2fb.jpg

Yes, I’m aware this borders on conflicting with my sigline…

[GearFondler]

My Aholster backbone has some retention for my J frame.

Just talking about what I know about Kydex from a number of experimental endeavors, the friction fit is susceptible to oils and lubricants and wear just like anything else.

The steps to increase tension in them are as follows:
1. Clean gun and holster with alcohol.
2. Rough up mating surfaces in the holster with a file if desired.
3. Localized heat to a hinge point and squeeze a little.

I tend to do a fair amount of heat modification to kydex holsters either to increase or decrease tension.

I personally like a brûlée torch with VERY quick passes in a line that I’m trying to modify. I like it better than a diffuse heat gun because I’m able to heat just a very thin strip for hinge points without turning the side of the holster into a relaxed blob like can happen if you heat too wide of an area with a heat gun.I use a heat gun to do the same type mods but to prevent heating the entire holster I mask the rest of the Kydex with cold wet rags, leaving only the area I wish to heat up exposed... It works very well. You could use the same technique with the torch, adding another layer of protection to the process.

[DDTSGM]

I have Vedder Pocket Locker holsters for my G42 and G43. It's Kydex and retains the pistol inside the holster very well.

Did you get them with thumb tabs? If so, are they a worthwhile upgrade?

[4given]

Last week Iwas offered a like new LCP II for $230 so I bought it. I had a LCP II once before and I liked it just fine. Ended up trading it off with the intention of getting another someday.

I'll keep it loaded with FMJ.

[TheNewbie]

Picked up a P32 today. At $175 I couldn’t say no.

[RevolverRob]

Picked up a P32 today. At $175 I couldn’t say no.

I wouldn't be able to either.

So, I'll admit some irrational bias. The thing keeping me from buying/trying a lot of pocket guns is they're chambered in .380. I've had half a dozen .380s and they all sucked to shoot and only one actually ran without incident. And since getting rid of the last one I had (Bersa, I know), I've just not been able to convince myself to invest back in the caliber. When by contrast I've rarely owned a .32 that did not work and that wasn't easy as pie to shoot.

And it's not rational, but the .32NAA makes enough crossed stream for me to run with. If more .380s had .32NAA barrel available, I'd have a pile of them. Or if I could figure out a legitimately good way to sleeve a .380 barrel down.

[boing]

Assassins and men of low character know what’s up.

80846

[johnnywitt]

I do NOT have any personal experience with the Kahr 380… I looked at them back in the day, and pretty much every thing I read was not complimentary.

I did own a Keltec P32. Amazingly small, but I found the semi rimmed .32 gave me rim lock malfunctions enough that I no longer trusted it.

The LCP in 380 with the replaceable sights seems the way to go… I just wish the finish on Ruger pistols did not rust just be looking at them too hard.

The reason that you had Rim lock is that you used HP Ammo in a caliber that is meant to use FMJ the way that JM Browning intended.:DYou will not get rimlock with proper length ammo in a FMJ round. A Kel-Tec P32 is one of the best Pocket Pistols out there because it weighs 6.6 oz and is the thinnest pocket gun at .75" and holds 8 rounds of 7.65mm Browning 73gr FMJ (which is what you should be putting in it). It has negligible recoil and is easy to hit with and my two copies are 100% reliable. I have carried them for 22 years.
An LCP, on the other hand, is a nasty little beast that is not easy to shoot well at all. Tiny ultra-light .380's and for that matter, 9mm's are way overrated and are very unbalanced handguns- the weight to power factor ratio is just way out of balance.
A 7.65mm will put somebody down just as fast as a .380. I love .380 too, just in a bigger pistol like a SIG P365 sized pistol. In fact, all these micro 9's should be in .380 IMO. The .380 would get a lot more cred if it was called what it actually is: a 9mm Short.
Folks whom are not Military or Police could learn a lot from the Claude Werner philosophy of breaking contact if you're a civilian CCW carrier. Cops and Military have a completely different mission and need a different primary handgun. Also, the old cliche is correct- have a gun. Which is way easier to accomplish if you have a small lightweight pistol to grab when heading out the door on a milkrun to the Circle K.

[johnnywitt]

Just opining here. I have two gen 5 Glocks, a 17 and 26. To me their finish is a bit slippery compared to my gen 3 Glock 21. I wonder if the finish on gen 5 models affect a holster's ability to hold onto the pistol. As an aside, I carry my S&W 340PD in an Uncle Mike's size 3 holster in my front right pocket. Revolver stays put and the holster stays in the pocket when the revolver is drawn. I know I'm comparing apples to oranges.
I use a Desantis Superfly for small autos, but the J Frames carry really well in a Mika Pocket Holster because you can get them in a rounded shape. The other J Frame holsters are square on the bottoms & won't fir in a lot of pockets where the Mika will. Sorry about the thread drift, but a lot of Folks that like small autos carry J Frames too and maybe this will help some safe queen J Frames get carried again.

[Sal Picante]

Assassins and men of low character know what’s up.

80846

The Duck of Death.

[Gadfly]

The reason that you had Rim lock is that you used HP Ammo in a caliber that is meant to use FMJ the way that JM Browning intended.:DYou will not get rimlock with proper length ammo in a FMJ round. A Kel-Tec P32 is one of the best Pocket Pistols out there because it weighs 6.6 oz and is the thinnest pocket gun at .75" and holds 8 rounds of 7.65mm Browning 73gr FMJ (which is what you should be putting in it). It has negligible recoil and is easy to hit with and my two copies are 100% reliable. I have carried them for 22 years.
An LCP, on the other hand, is a nasty little beast that is not easy to shoot well at all. Tiny ultra-light .380's and for that matter, 9mm's are way overrated and are very unbalanced handguns- the weight to power factor ratio is just way out of balance.
A 7.65mm will put somebody down just as fast as a .380. I love .380 too, just in a bigger pistol like a SIG P365 sized pistol. In fact, all these micro 9's should be in .380 IMO. The .380 would get a lot more cred if it was called what it actually is: a 9mm Short.
Folks whom are not Military or Police could learn a lot from the Claude Werner philosophy of breaking contact if you're a civilian CCW carrier. Cops and Military have a completely different mission and need a different primary handgun. Also, the old cliche is correct- have a gun. Which is way easier to accomplish if you have a small lightweight pistol to grab when heading out the door on a milkrun to the Circle K.

I did carry HP some times (cor born if I recall, it’s been 20 years). But, It malfunctioned because I carried it on my ankle, clipped in a boot. Running, climbing stairs, general “bouncing” due to is location. When I would go to the range, I would take it out and fire it “as is” straight from the holster. About a lot of times, first round goes bang, second round is hung up in rim lock. Multiple mags rotated in, some issue. Mags just loaded and set on the table? Those run fine. And I don’t recall much, if any, rim lock from firing. Any mag carried in the gun, all day, for weeks, on the ankle, bouncing… that produced rim lock for me. I am never going to pocket carry, ever, so I sold it off.

I’m not a civilian CCW, I am LE with a need of a primary handgun. I never intended the 32 to fill that role. The 365 is on me 7 days a week. On duty and off. If I am leaving the office to go do enforcement, I will grab a p320 or rifle to complement the 365.

Side note, the p32 rusted often, the mags even more so. Terrible finish for south TX humidity.

[BillSWPA]

A true rimlock, with the rim of one cartridge behind the rim of the cartridge below it, is not going to happen from the rounds bouncing around. The same rim interaction which makes a true rimlock such a nasty jam will also prevent it from occurring if the magazine has been properly loaded. In my experience, rimlock occurs while the magazine is being loaded with cartridges. Careful loading of the magazine will prevent it from ever occurring.

First shot jams, particularly when a P-32 is loaded with 7+1, are often the result of the rim of the first cartridge within the groove of the cartridge below it. This is not a true rimlock, but the standard 9 lb. recoil springs will not overcome this condition when the gun is fully loaded. Switching to Wolff 11 lb. recoil springs will overcome this condition every time. I regard it he extra power recoil springs as mandatory for a P-32.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Clusterfrack]

Kahr p380 update: spare parts arrived from the Kahr mothership. It's nice that every part is readily available and reasonably priced.

The double recoil springs are the main point of this post. The springs in my gun were apparently quite worn, despite a low round count. The outer spring was 1.5 coils short and the inner spring was 4 (!) coils short. Installing the new springs was challenging. I solved it by using the edge of a bench to push the rod and compress the springs while aligning the rod tip to fit in through the slide hole. These new springs are much heavier--especially in the first 1/4" of slide movement. No wonder I had some FTRB before I lubed and polished (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?50494-Mouseguns&p=1293083&viewfull=1#post1293083) the slide stop and lower lug.

My plan is to order some extra recoil springs (2x more of the inner springs) and replace them often.

[octagon]

Kahr p380 update: spare parts arrived from the Kahr mothership. It's nice that every part is readily available and reasonably priced.

The double recoil springs are the main point of this post. The springs in my gun were apparently quite worn, despite a low round count. The outer spring was 1.5 coils short and the inner spring was 4 (!) coils short. Installing the new springs was challenging. I solved it by using the edge of a bench to push the rod and compress the springs while aligning the rod tip to fit in through the slide hole. These new springs are much heavier--especially in the first 1/4" of slide movement. No wonder I had some FTRB before I lubed and polished (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?50494-Mouseguns&p=1293083&viewfull=1#post1293083) the slide stop and lower lug.

My plan is to order some extra recoil springs (2x more of the inner springs) and replace them often.

It's not a bad idea to order the slide stop retention spring or a couple. They can be dislodged or lost without trying and are tiny enough to be tough to find. Ask me how I know. Kahr has sent a replacement for free before but it is nice not to have to ask, order or wait for one if they are on hand.

[Totem Polar]

For what it’s worth, Clusterfrack my Sig P238 absolutely ate RSAs for breakfast. 350 rounds, and they were toast. Kahr may well be better, but I’d still change them frequently. You will figure out what that is, but 400-500 rounds may well be it.

[Clusterfrack]

Gabe White Standards 7 yds
Kahr P380 concealed in pocket holster, hand on gun. I like this gun!

Bill 2.31 -.25: 2.06 L

F2S 2.06 +.25 -.25: 2.06 L
F2S 1.83 -.25: 1.58 T

2H 1.64 -.25: 1.39 T
2H 1.75 +.25 -.25: 1.75 T

4B2H 2.57 -.25: 2.32 T

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211208/760d4396876632f32861acdfa131631b.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211208/bfaa035fae73469585651ab235ea8f1d.jpg

[TheNewbie]

Gabe White Standards 7 yds
Kahr P380 concealed in pocket holster, hand on gun. I like this gun!

Bill 2.31 -.25: 2.06 L

F2S 2.06 +.25 -.25: 2.06 L
F2S 1.83 -.25: 1.58 T

2H 1.64 -.25: 1.39 T
2H 1.75 +.25 -.25: 1.75 T

4B2H 2.57 -.25: 2.32 T

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211208/760d4396876632f32861acdfa131631b.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211208/bfaa035fae73469585651ab235ea8f1d.jpg

If there was an SCD like device for the Kahr, I would really take it in to consideration. It has much of what else I want, especially in the trigger.

How is the recoil vs the LCP?

[Clusterfrack]

If there was an SCD like device for the Kahr, I would really take it in to consideration. It has much of what else I want, especially in the trigger.

How is the recoil vs the LCP?

The p380 ergos are SO much better than the LCP. I was honestly shocked at the times and hits. Hard to say about recoil, neither seems very heavy, but the p380 feels much more controllable. And I don’t have to grip it quite as extremely hard. My support hand is still a little pumped from that set of drills though.

Edit: about the SCD. I don’t see the need. You holster it out of the pocket, so there’s not a significant risk of ND.

[TheNewbie]

The p380 ergos are SO much better than the LCP. I was honestly shocked at the times and hits. Hard to say about recoil, neither seems very heavy, but the p380 feels much more controllable. And I don’t have to grip it quite as extremely hard. My support hand is still a little pumped from that set of drills though.

Edit: about the SCD. I don’t see the need. You holster it out of the pocket, so there’s not a significant risk of ND.

The recoil is not bad in the LCP but it causes the gun to move enough in my hand and that I think it makes it seem worse than it might actually be.

A non rimmed super reliable .32 type round might be the king of pocket carry for me if it existed. The P32 had just one step above no recoil when I shot it.

[BillSWPA]

The recoil is not bad in the LCP but it causes the gun to move enough in my hand and that I think it makes it seem worse than it might actually be.

A non rimmed super reliable .32 type round might be the king of pocket carry for me if it existed. The P32 had just one step above no recoil when I shot it.

Something very close does exist, but it never caught on: the .25 NAA. This cartridge is essentially a rimless .30 caliber case necked down to .25 caliber. Although it was developed with the goal of increasing kinetic energy by driving a lighter bullet faster, the rimless case is far more attractive to me than any theoretical, perhaps dubious claim of improved stoping power.

I rarely see a need for a new caliber, but this one could potentially have been a real reliability enhancer in mouseguns.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mmc45414]

Edit: about the SCD. I don’t see the need. You holster it out of the pocket, so there’s not a significant risk of ND.
And the trigger pull is pretty long and deliberate.

[wmu12071]

I am too cheap for a P380 but this thread is making me think about a CW380. I have a P32 but I am not in love with it because the lack of sights don't work well for me. I dislike the ergos on the LCP.

[Clusterfrack]

P380 front sight paint job. Testors fluorescent orange enamel.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211210/005ebb31b2f3050323063b8cb34b1457.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211210/c05c91e762e352c84656e0500e786804.jpg

[Catshooter]

I think it's Mepro who makes trintium sights for the little guy.

[Clusterfrack]

I think it's Mepro who makes trintium sights for the little guy.

There are some nice tritium sights at Kahr, but the OEM sights are super low profile. I like that.

[Catshooter]

They are that, for sure.

[45dotACP]

Anybody have time or opinion on the new LCP Max? I've been looking at one at a local LGS.

I currently carry a LCP Custom (because it has good sights) and I was wondering if the Max is low profile enough to realistically keep in a pocket?

10+1 of .380 is tempting if I can still keep it as a deep concealment gun.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Clusterfrack]

Anybody have time or opinion on the new LCP Max? I've been looking at one at a local LGS.

I currently carry a LCP Custom (because it has good sights) and I was wondering if the Max is low profile enough to realistically keep in a pocket?

10+1 of .380 is tempting if I can still keep it as a deep concealment gun.


Thread on the LCP max:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?48809-Ruger-LCP-Max

[4RNR]

Anybody have time or opinion on the new LCP Max? I've been looking at one at a local LGS.

I currently carry a LCP Custom (because it has good sights) and I was wondering if the Max is low profile enough to realistically keep in a pocket?

10+1 of .380 is tempting if I can still keep it as a deep concealment gun.

Sent from my moto g(6) using TapatalkI just bought a used one but haven't had time to shoot it. However, it seems to carry fine in pocket and I very much dislike pocket carry of anything. To me it doesn't feel any different than my LCP Custom but I don't carry it very often. Almost never. If you carry it every day you may notice a difference. I literally bought mine for the occasional late night store run or the one time a decade I go to a wedding or something that requires a suit

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[Polecat]

Wanted to love it, totally frustrated. Rusting slide, poorly finished, machining marks with fine metal splinters on one side, sent it back, replaced slide, did not bother to center the rear sight, trigger was worse, pull back to rear, wait the it would drop. I dont have clue what they did. Got rid of it vowed never again. In fact got rid of my LCP custom and LCP II on primicipal.

I am now vetting a little SA 911 .380. So far 12 oz of goodness in 500 something rounds! I am also gonna pic io a kimber micro and P238 just for comparison. This little thing is great so far!

Dave

[Polecat]

On the mouse thing, why did Hornady not come out with a decent 35 gr truncated FMJ @ 900 fps or so for the tiny guns instead of all this hollow point non penetrating crap! Boggles the mind.

[45dotACP]

Wanted to love it, totally frustrated. Rusting slide, poorly finished, machining marks with fine metal splinters on one side, sent it back, replaced slide, did not bother to center the rear sight, trigger was worse, pull back to rear, wait the it would drop. I dont have clue what they did. Got rid of it vowed never again. In fact got rid of my LCP custom and LCP II on primicipal.

I am now vetting a little SA 911 .380. So far 12 oz of goodness in 500 something rounds! I am also gonna pic io a kimber micro and P238 just for comparison. This little thing is great so far!

DaveI wanted to like the Springfield 911, but they gave me terrifically bad slide bite. Like less than a mag and I'm bleeding.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[TheNewbie]

I wanted to like the Springfield 911, but they gave me terrifically bad slide bite. Like less than a mag and I'm bleeding.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

Was your gun reliable? Besides the slide bite.

[Doc_Glock]

Anybody have time or opinion on the new LCP Max? I've been looking at one at a local LGS.

I currently carry a LCP Custom (because it has good sights) and I was wondering if the Max is low profile enough to realistically keep in a pocket?

10+1 of .380 is tempting if I can still keep it as a deep concealment gun.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

It is fabulous and I recommend it. It has totally changed my opinion on Ruger’s tiny guns.

[PNWTO]

It is fabulous and I recommend it. It has totally changed my opinion on Ruger’s tiny guns.

I really want to handle one but, for the cost and resale market, I may just order one. Seems like a pretty good fit for my “LCR Dad Life”.

[Shawn Dodson]

Did you get them with thumb tabs? If so, are they a worthwhile upgrade?

I have both versions - with and without the thumb tab. IMO, the thumb tab is the superior version because you don't have to rely on the holster to hook the corner of your pocket to release the gun from the holster when you draw. Also, make sure you choose the "curved" option too, to follow the contour of your thigh.

[JCN]

Current mousegun selection…

81833

81834

For reference….

81835

81836

[iWander]

If I can locate a Kahr p380, I'll give it a try. Meanwhile my LCP 1.2 is just fine.

Since USPSA needs more divisions ;), how about Mousegun division? Special scoring: Points/(Time*Weight).A friend is selling a stainless slide P380 & CM9, both with minimal wear for under $300 each. PM me if you're interested.

Revolver Bob, PM also with your address and I'll send 380 brass ASAP.

[Totem Polar]

A friend is selling a stainless slide P380 & CM9, both with minimal wear for under $300 each. PM me if you're interested.


Not CF, but PM sent nonetheless.

[Clusterfrack]

Not CF, but PM sent nonetheless.

I’m interested, but since I already have one, you take this one.

[Totem Polar]

I’m interested, but since I already have one, you take this one.

I appreciate that, stud. Let’s see what we see. :cool:

[iWander]

The recoil is not bad in the LCP but it causes the gun to move enough in my hand and that I think it makes it seem worse than it might actually be.
I bought a used LCP 1.0 last month and had it for exactly 2 weeks... It was 100% reliable with everything I ran through it, but having to slide index it due to the lack of real sights really bugged me, and I felt like I was shooting a barking bar of soap. It seemed to slide all over the inside of my hand no matter how hard I gripped it. For whatever reason the KT P3AT and 32 I used to own seemed easier to hold and shoot accurately. Our state qualification has a max distance of 50'.

I picked up these twins after putting out a request for a new BUG here and on a few other forums. They are very solid in my hand with great sights and I don't think I'll have any problem holding a tight qual group with either one. Both have night sights and the Crimson Trace is spot on.

I have a soft spot for Kahrs as I owned 5 and carried one 24/7 until a few years ago when Sig worked through most of the problems with the P365. I sold it and now carry 365XL full time off duty. I'm looking forward to carrying and shooting the Kahrs again.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220102/7f6e675fa5f31422d95b7d9442599c15.jpg

[peterb]

and I felt like I was shooting a barking bar of soap.

Thank you for starting my morning with a smile. :-)

[Warped Mindless]

I really want to handle one but, for the cost and resale market, I may just order one. Seems like a pretty good fit for my “LCR Dad Life”.

Speaking of dad life, it’s a great gun to wear when outside chasing my daughter. .380 ain’t my favorite round for self defense but I’m not to worried about other people while I’m my back yard. Stray dogs on the other hand are a big problem around here.

[Clusterfrack]

Kahr P380 update:

Another mostly trouble free 200 rounds. With new recoil springs, weak PMC ammo had 2 stovepipes.

After ~200 rounds, the striker hole got gritty, and caused 2 light strikes. Cleaning is more important than with a Glock, apparently.

Chambering the first round is best done from slide lock, by releasing the slide stop. Otherwise the round can nosedive.

The slide is too stiff for many people to rack. No female has succeeded.

The gun shoots way better than any mousegun I’ve tried. A buddy and I ran it on a short two position USPSA type drill with 10-15yd partials and 8” steel. Yes, it takes a little longer to stabilize and confirm sights on the hard targets, but our points and times weren’t that much worse than with full size guns with RDS.

[jh9]

Since Karhs have been brought up...

What's the difference between P-series and the budget C-series? Is it more substantive than the MIM slide stop? I ask because I didn't know the CT380 existed. It's like a DAO Glock 42X. There is no analogous "big" P380.

[octagon]

Since Karhs have been brought up...

What's the difference between P-series and the budget C-series? Is it more substantive than the MIM slide stop? I ask because I didn't know the CT380 existed. It's like a DAO Glock 42X. There is no analogous "big" P380.

I have had a PM9 and Cw9 as well as still have a P380 and CW380. These are basic the same guns to each other in the same caliber. The C series uses a regular rifled barrel where the P series uses polygonal rifling. The C series uses the MIM slide stop vs the P series being cast. The C series has less slide machining on edges and stamped markings. The P series has a smoother finish machining and roll stamping for markings. Otherwise the guns are the same. My C series runs the same or a touch better than the P series but both have run almost flawlessly so that is splitting hairs.

Just FYI Kahr states in their manual that the proper way to chamber a round is to use the slide lever and not slingshot the slide. I always found that odd but it works where slingshoting the slide often causes nose down feeding issues.

[Clusterfrack]

Kahr P380 update:
The gun shoots way better than any mousegun I’ve tried. A buddy and I ran it on a short two position USPSA type drill with 10-15yd partials and 8” steel. Yes, it takes a little longer to stabilize and confirm sights on the hard targets, but our points and times weren’t that much worse than with full size guns with RDS.

Just to clarify: hit factor was about 50% with the mouse gun.

[PNWTO]

Speaking of dad life, it’s a great gun to wear when outside chasing my daughter. .380 ain’t my favorite round for self defense but I’m not to worried about other people while I’m my back yard. Stray dogs on the other hand are a big problem around here.

I’ve come to really, specifically, like the pocket, and sometimes the ankle for the acrobatics of toddler-wrangling. Even more so since at 6’5” most of shirts ride up fairly easily. I’m pretty comfortable with two LCRs but will probably have an LCP Max on order by the end of the month.

[SecondHandSmoke]

Current mousegun selection…

81833

81834

For reference….

81835

81836

I have to know... what is it like shooting that Taurus? That has to be a handful... even with wadcutters. I was always curious about that gun.

[JCN]

I have to know... what is it like shooting that Taurus? That has to be a handful... even with wadcutters. I was always curious about that gun.


https://youtu.be/3eUt3AQgATk

I only shot wimpy ammo in it and really it’s just a replacement for my NAA Minis. You don’t really try and control the recoil as much as shoot and reset lol.

Someday I’ll try some up close steel with frangible using left hand pocket draw the way I am currently carrying it.

I like the shorter grip for not sticking out of shallower dress pant pockets.

I have a second one coming to the FFL and then can really get into working it.

[Doc_Glock]

Kahr P380 update:

Another mostly trouble free 200 rounds. With new recoil springs, weak PMC ammo had 2 stovepipes.

After ~200 rounds, the striker hole got gritty, and caused 2 light strikes. Cleaning is more important than with a Glock, apparently.

Chambering the first round is best done from slide lock, by releasing the slide stop. Otherwise the round can nosedive.

The slide is too stiff for many people to rack. No female has succeeded.

The gun shoots way better than any mousegun I’ve tried. A buddy and I ran it on a short two position USPSA type drill with 10-15yd partials and 8” steel. Yes, it takes a little longer to stabilize and confirm sights on the hard targets, but our points and times weren’t that much worse than with full size guns with RDS.


Thanks for confirming that I will stick with the BG380 for a DAO mousegun. It has been zero drama so far.

Kahrs do have very nice triggers though

[Chuck Whitlock]

Since Karhs have been brought up...

What's the difference between P-series and the budget C-series? Is it more substantive than the MIM slide stop? I ask because I didn't know the CT380 existed. It's like a DAO Glock 42X. There is no analogous "big" P380.


I have had a PM9 and Cw9 as well as still have a P380 and CW380. These are basic the same guns to each other in the same caliber. The C series uses a regular rifled barrel where the P series uses polygonal rifling. The C series uses the MIM slide stop vs the P series being cast. The C series has less slide machining on edges and stamped markings. The P series has a smoother finish machining and roll stamping for markings. Otherwise the guns are the same. My C series runs the same or a touch better than the P series but both have run almost flawlessly so that is splitting hairs.

Just FYI Kahr states in their manual that the proper way to chamber a round is to use the slide lever and not slingshot the slide. I always found that odd but it works where slingshoting the slide often causes nose down feeding issues.

One other difference that comes to mind is that the CW-series guns have a plastic front sight that is staked via 2 holes in the slide, whereas the P-series has the same steel dovetailed front sight of the K-series guns.

[Clusterfrack]

Thanks to iWander, my cute blonde p380 now has a cute brunette friend.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220205/4e66462ba7f91be0c68d89a851fac859.jpg

[iWander]

Thanks to iWander, my cute blonde p380 now has a cute brunette friend.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220205/4e66462ba7f91be0c68d89a851fac859.jpgNow you need a redhead!

[Clusterfrack]

Now you need a redhead!

I already have plenty of those. LOL!

[JCN]

Thanks to iWander, my cute blonde p380 now has a cute brunette friend.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220205/4e66462ba7f91be0c68d89a851fac859.jpg

Oh man, now they're going to make babies.....

[41magfan]

Since Karhs have been brought up...

What's the difference between P-series and the budget C-series? Is it more substantive than the MIM slide stop? I ask because I didn't know the CT380 existed. It's like a DAO Glock 42X. There is no analogous "big" P380.

Interestingly, the only Kahr slide stop failure I have first-hand knowledge of occurred on a P-series pistol. It being a two-piece design (vs the MIM part), it tied up the gun when it failed. No bueno!!

[Clusterfrack]

Kahr#2 is good to go. I only have a sample of two, and some anecdotes from the internet, but here’s my take on these guns:

P380's with serial #RC or higher prefix are the ones to get. RA and especially RB had a lot of issues.

Kahr has updated the recoil springs, and they are absolutely required for reliable functionality. These springs are very stiff, and require “man strength” to rack, making this a poor choice for many people. Installation of new springs is not easy, because the resting length is much greater than the guide rod. A table edge helps and safety glasses are a must.

Mag springs wear out, and should be replaced when they are 1-2 coils short.

I’m using Lakeline tool steel striker assemblies. It is also sold at Kahr, so that’s interesting.
https://lakelinellc.com/shop/ultimate-striker-solution-for-kahr-380-pistols/

Polishing the lower barrel lug where it interfaces with the slide stop helps smooth out slide lockup, and possibly fixes feed issues with hollow point bullets.

These little mouseguns shoot shockingly well. No problem keeping very aggressive splits in the A zone at 7yds. I was able to keep all shots on cardboard at 25, again shooting aggressively.

Mouse thumbs up!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220207/69d297dc000d10dec712ed2359cd4df8.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220207/f208005b7ca4fcf5c193ae957dd33cba.jpg

[Catshooter]

Mine, an RA numbered gun has been 100%. In slow fire at 22 yards It will do just over 2 inches. Really surprisingly accutate.

[Doc_Glock]

I shot the BG 380 back and forth with the LCP Max over the weekend.

The BG 380 is a full on DAO trigger, the LCP is decidedly single action.

I think I shoot the BG 380 better and more precisely. The LCP leads to me snatching at the gun a little and driving it off target. I don't know why but I really get along with Glock and DAO triggers and tend to get flinchy with SA type triggers. Probably it is just familiarity.

My main issues with the BG 380 have been dropping the mag with single handed shooting where my trigger finger wraps around and actuates the button. I have been grinding down the mag release to prevent this. Otherwise it is a solid unit in my hand so far. The Ruger is a rattle trap after 1700 rounds. I had to replace the recoil springs at 1600 due to FTRTB issues. Otherwise it too has chugged along. The Ruger feels cheap wheras the BG380 feels better made. Hard to describe. Both seem to be decent Mouse guns.

[TGS]

Damn you, Clusterfrack.

About 10 years ago, I absolutely loved everything about my P380 except for the fact it wouldn't work. From what you're saying it sounds like there's a clear point in time at which point they were fixed, so I might give it another shot.

[the Schwartz]

I shot the BG 380 back and forth with the LCP Max over the weekend.

The BG 380 is a full on DAO trigger, the LCP is decidedly single action.

I think I shoot the BG 380 better and more precisely. The LCP leads to me snatching at the gun a little and driving it off target. I don't know why but I really get along with Glock and DAO triggers and tend to get flinchy with SA type triggers. Probably it is just familiarity.

My main issues with the BG 380 have been dropping the mag with single handed shooting where my trigger finger wraps around and actuates the button. I have been grinding down the mag release to prevent this. Otherwise it is a solid unit in my hand so far. The Ruger is a rattle trap after 1700 rounds. I had to replace the recoil springs at 1600 due to FTRTB issues. Otherwise it too has chugged along. The Ruger feels cheap wheras the BG380 feels better made. Hard to describe. Both seem to be decent Mouse guns.

I find myself in much the same position as you. The LCP and P380 are just not compatible with the size of my hands. The G42 with its slightly longer grip accommodates my hand more comfortably than either of the former. I think that the 42 also beats both in terms of robustness and prefer the 42's trigger due to the familiarity that I have with the system. I'll bet that I would probably get along very well with the BG 380, too, given its dimensions. For mouseguns, the 42 is going to have to be ''it'' for me.

[Doc_Glock]

I find myself in much the same position as you. The LCP and P380 are just not compatible with the size of my hands. The G42 with its slightly longer grip accommodates my hand more comfortably than either of the former. I think that the 42 also beats both in terms of robustness and prefer the 42's trigger due to the familiarity that I have with the system. I'll bet that I would probably get along very well with the BG 380, too, given its dimensions. For mouseguns, the 42 is going to have to be ''it'' for me.

The BG 380 is much much closer in size to the standard LCP or P380 than it is to the G42. I think the G42 is the best functionally of all the mouse guns, but IMO it is too big and too awkwardly shaped for a pocket draw.

[the Schwartz]

The BG 380 is much much closer in size to the standard LCP or P380 than it is to the G42. I think the G42 is the best functionally of all the mouse guns, but IMO it is too big and too awkwardly shaped for a pocket draw.

I get it.

Of course, the pockets (winter coats) that I carry the 42 in might be a bit larger than the pockets you are talking about. ;)

[Clusterfrack]

I find myself in much the same position as you. The LCP and P380 are just not compatible with the size of my hands. The G42 with its slightly longer grip accommodates my hand more comfortably than either of the former. I think that the 42 also beats both in terms of robustness and prefer the 42's trigger due to the familiarity that I have with the system. I'll bet that I would probably get along very well with the BG 380, too, given its dimensions. For mouseguns, the 42 is going to have to be ''it'' for me.

Bigger hands usually go with bigger bodies, and bigger pockets. If I had the choice, I'd rather carry a 42 or 43.

[FrankB]

Bigger hands usually go with bigger bodies, and bigger pockets. If I had the choice, I'd rather carry a 42 or 43.
I can easily fit a 2.5” S&W 686+ in the front pocket of my slacks…seriously.

[Leroy Suggs]

I can easily fit a 2.5” S&W 686+ in the front pocket of my slacks…seriously.

No doubt. I can easily carry a G26 in a PCS Blackbird or Aholster all day long in my front pocket, and do sometimes.

It draws just as fast and sure as a J frame.

I am 6' 190#.

The G43 is even better.

[DDTSGM]

I have a question for the group: anyone ever tried a Crossbreed Pocket Rocket?

https://www.crossbreedholsters.com/pocket-rocket.html

[the Schwartz]

Bigger hands usually go with bigger bodies, and bigger pockets. If I had the choice, I'd rather carry a 42 or 43.

must resist making bad ''big hands'' joke...must resist making bad ''big hands'' joke...must resist making bad ''big hands'' joke...

You're killing me, CF. ;)

[boing]

The BG 380 is a full on DAO trigger, the LCP is decidedly single action.

I think I shoot the BG 380 better and more precisely. The LCP leads to me snatching at the gun a little and driving it off target. I don't know why but I really get along with Glock and DAO triggers and tend to get flinchy with SA type triggers. Probably it is just familiarity.

I’m looking hard at the LCP, but for the trigger. I favor pistols that default to an “at rest” condition. I’d be all over a BG380 Max.

[Clusterfrack]

FYI, the LCP1 is DAO, hammer fired.

[boing]

Yeah, but 10+1 gives me the max allowable in my current state of incarceration, and I need a stack of justifications to replace my P32.

[retdusm]

Yeah, but 10+1 gives me the max allowable in my current state of incarceration, and I need a stack of justifications to replace my P32.

The desire to be armed with a deadly weapon without any of the attendant burdens or advantages appears to be never ending.

[4RNR]

I have a question for the group: anyone ever tried a Crossbreed Pocket Rocket?

https://www.crossbreedholsters.com/pocket-rocket.htmlI have their IWB holster for a S&W 5906 which has seen use and holding up pretty good. Never tired that though.

I'd be interested maybe if it was closer to something like thishttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220208/b44133c4378ea40e102c553a295cef06.jpg

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[DDTSGM]

I have their IWB holster for a S&W 5906 which has seen use and holding up pretty good. Never tired that though.

I'd be interested maybe if it was closer to something like thishttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220208/b44133c4378ea40e102c553a295cef06.jpg

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

That kind of defeats the purpose of the looks like a wallet or cellphone feature that caught my eye.

I'm kind of a burly guy...yeah, that's the ticket, burly LOL... and generally run around in loose fitting jeans or shorts. I've tried the plastic mesh silhouette disguising things as well as cutting the corner of an old ensolite(?) sleeping pad attaching the holster to the piece of pad. That works but, in my paranoia, it looks too thick and bulky.

Back in the old days I would just run down to Tandy Leather, get a hunk of the right thickness leather and do it myself, but they've gone the way of the whale.

I think I'll give it a shot. Ordered one.

ETA: I have a CrossBreed Super Tuck for a Shield that works well and has also held up well.

[4RNR]

That kind of defeats the purpose of the looks like a wallet or cellphone feature that caught my eye.

I'm kind of a burly guy...yeah, that's the ticket, burly LOL... and generally run around in loose fitting jeans or shorts. I've tried the plastic mesh silhouette disguising things as well as cutting the corner of an old ensolite(?) sleeping pad attaching the holster to the piece of pad. That works but, in my paranoia, it looks too thick and bulky.

Back in the old days I would just run down to Tandy Leather, get a hunk of the right thickness leather and do it myself, but they've gone the way of the whale.

I think I'll give it a shot. Ordered one.

ETA: I have a CrossBreed Super Tuck for a Shield that works well and has also held up well.I could be wrong and if you get it let me know but that holster holds the gun by the inside of the trigger guard. That's where the gun snaps in. The I see it is your not going to get a good grip and pull the gun out without the holster attached.

Let me know how it works out

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[DDTSGM]

Will do!

[BN]

I just got an email from Rural King Guns that they have Seecamps available online in 32 and 380. $475 and $550.

[HeavyDuty]

I just got an email from Rural King Guns that they have Seecamps available online in 32 and 380. $475 and $550.

I saw that. I got my old .32 one when the wait time was measured in years.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Shot an USPSA style compact carry gun match with a G42. Did ok for accuracy with the stock Glock sights. Slow times, long distances to stroll to etc. Limited by about one extra mag change than the guys with 10 round guns. Interestingly, while it was a 'carry gun' match, most folks tried to use USPSA tactics like planning mag changes and dumping partially full mags. Some of the guns had dots. Lots of bitching about using iron sights - leading to the famous USPSA will get you kilt on DA street. Some Sig 938s, G43s, 26s, Sig 365s with optics.

I asked if anyone had shot this with something like J frame. Interestingly, some of the folks were unfamiliar with that gun. Whaz Dat?

A revolver - oh, does it use moon clips? - so USPSA! I might try the next one with a 642 and a CT laser grip - those are allowed in this match.

Anyway, it was fun. The 42 is a one or two mugger gun of lesser power, IMHO. It was suggested that I get mag extensions - again to make it a pseudo USPSA gun! The tug between competition and carry. I doubt I would get one of the new higher cap 380s as my old hands still can shoot 9s and 45s.

Do you WIN with speed? Or practice with a carry gun within its normal carry paradigm. Then I went to a lecture on Yemeni Jews and had a traditional Yemeni meal! Had the G42 concealed. Then to the supermarket to shop with the list from my dear one.

Home and tired! BTW, raining and cold crappy night.

[CDW4ME]

22/25/32 - No, just no.
Pocket 380/38snub - If/when one can truly not do better, work (NPE) = Okay
Pocket 380/38snub - One could do better but chooses not to, ex: unrequired shirt tucking, "good area", "quick trip to the store", "its hot" = Nope
Pocket 380/38snub - As a 2nd gun (AKA backup) to something better = Okay.

[Clusterfrack]

I was working on pocket draws today to see how easy it is to beat the Correia par time for “Bad guy with eyes on you and weapon presented: average draw speed needed (0.6 sec)”.

If I prepped by pushing the gun out of the holster so it didn’t need to snag on the pocket, I had some very good par times. A relaxed draw to a close target was well under 0.6s. I was able to push it down to 0.41, but that added tension.

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Snagging the pocket to remove the holster was consistently slower, barely under par (and consistent with my previous times, quoted below).

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I shot a little over 100 rounds through the Kahr p380. I like this gun much better than my LCP 1.2. The ergos are way better: lower bore axis and more grip, yet similar size. The Kahr is actually smaller than the LCP but feels much bigger.

Underwood/Lehigh XP +p 90gr chronoed at 1000fps out of the p380.

The gun still feels a bit unfamiliar. I played with pocket draws and was around 0.6x. A clean 5yd Bill was 2.20s. 0.24 splits seemed manageable even with the long trigger pull.

The sights are usable, and hitting 8” plate at 25 yds was totally doable with some care.

Two mouse thumbs up!

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