Ruger Blackhawk Convertible: any drawbacks?

[RAM Engineer]

I decided I want a Blackhawk, but I was wondering if there is any downside to the convertible versions vs the standard ones, other than price. Here are the two I’m looking at:

https://ruger.com/products/newModelBlackhawkStainless/specSheets/0309.html

https://ruger.com/products/newModelBlackhawkConvertible/specSheets/5245.html

Thanks in advance.

Jason

[OlongJohnson]

Search to make sure I'm not full of it, but the groove diameter is probably sized for .357 bullets. Accuracy at longer ranges may not be as good with .355 bullets. You could overcome that by loading 9mm cases with .356 or .357 bullets, but that's a possible hazard for your 9mm pistols and you might as well just load .357 cases the way you want.

[RAM Engineer]

Search to make sure I'm not full of it, but the groove diameter is probably sized for .357 bullets. Accuracy at longer ranges may not be as good with .355 bullets. You could overcome that by loading 9mm cases with .356 or .357 bullets, but that's a possible hazard for your 9mm pistols and you might as well just load .357 cases the way you want.

So possibly lower accuracy for 9mm, but unchanged for .357? That doesn't sound like too bad a deal for something purchased for .357 primarily, with 9mm as a backup function. So I guess that the .45Colt/.45ACP convertibles would have the same *possible* issue using strictly factory ammo?

[OlongJohnson]

So possibly lower accuracy for 9mm, but unchanged for .357? That doesn't sound like too bad a deal for something purchased for .357 primarily, with 9mm as a backup function. So I guess that the .45Colt/.45ACP convertibles would have the same *possible* issue using strictly factory ammo?

.45 Colt and .45 Auto are both .451 bullets for jacketed and typically .452 for unjacketed, though slugging the bore may suggest a slight change to better match it for best accuracy and least leading.

Oh, yeah. Shooting undersized non-jacketed bullets will lead up a revolver PDQ.

[WDR]

For some reason, the .45 Colt Rugers seem to be the ones most likely to have issues with the sizing of the throats in the cylinder. I do not know how that applies to convertibles in .45 Colt/.45 ACP.

I have a .357/9mm convertible, and so far, have only shot .357/.38 in it, so I cant speak to accuracy with 9mm, but it shoots both revolver cartridges just fine.

ETA: Mine is the 5.5" version of your second link... The "Flattop" models are a slightly smaller grip frame than the non-flat top models (your top link), FYI. I believe its the "Vaquero" sized frame. This probably only matters if you have huge paws.

[JAH 3rd]

I have the Ruger 0472 Stainless New Model Blackhawk Convertible revolver in 45 acp/45 Colt 5.5" barrel. To be honest I bought this revolver to have the ability to shoot two different calibers from the same platform. Would be handy to have a lever action rifle in 45 Colt with a like caliber revolver. Plus ammo availability figured into my decision as well. An ACP in a 1911 and a Blackhawk offers flexibility too.

Cylinder throat diameter can affect accuracy. I sent my two cylinders to DougGuy on the Cast Boolits website. He gets great reviews for his firearms work. I didn't shoot the Ruger for accuracy before/after the work he did on the cylinders so I don't have that data. He reamed the cylinders in both. I thought his prices were very reasonable. I joined the group, sent him a message, and he sent all the info I needed to send the cylinders to him. I think turn around time was about 3 weeks.


https://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/


https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?433416-45-colt-cylinder-throats&

DougGuy posts on second link.

[OlongJohnson]

Anyone seriously thinking about getting into Ruger single actions should rabbit-hole this thread:

https://singleactions.proboards.com/thread/26528/brass-grip-frames-ronnie-wells

[JAH 3rd]

I read an article on Ruger single actions and the many frames sizes/names they have used over the decades. By the time I finished, my eyeballs were looking at each other, and my eyebrows were touching. Lots of good info, but man, lots of knowledge to digest. Good link OlongJohnson!!

[okie john]

I read an article on Ruger single actions and the many frames sizes/names they have used over the decades. By the time I finished, my eyeballs were looking at each other, and my eyebrows were touching. Lots of good info, but man, lots of knowledge to digest. Good link OlongJohnson!!

There's an excellent article on Ruger grip frame history at https://gunblast.com/Hamm_Ruger-SA-GripFrames.htm. The diagram at the bottom of the page clears up a lot of confusion with regard to the actual shapes. I grabbed it for my desktop but can't publish it here due to copyright issues.

Long story short, if you disregard the birdshead and Bisley, then the other variants are far more similar than they are different. The real issue, in my experience, is less about the grip frame than it is about the grips themselves.


Okie John

[JAH 3rd]

That's one of the articles I read! Great minds think alike. Lots of good info there.

[okie john]

That's one of the articles I read! Great minds think alike. Lots of good info there.

One of the biggest problems with learning about single-action revolvers is that so many writers have sworn up and down over the decades that X was the one true solution to the grip frame problem. A lot of shooters took the same positions and it became a lot like the 9 vs. 45 debate. For years, there was no PF equivalent for single actions where people could say, "This is what I prefer based on my experience/glove size" and then discuss their position with others who sought honest inquiry and debate, although https://singleactions.proboards.com/ is very close.

That said, I have an appointment to talk with Ronnie Wells about building a custom grip frame for my Ruger Blackhawk, which I will then proclaim to the one true solution to the grip frame problem.


Okie John

[jamautry]

I have a Ronnie Wells Brass Dealer frame going on my 357 maximum as we speak. I just know this will be the solution to everyone's problem, lol.

Seriously, don't sweat the grip frame. If it gives you issues Ronnie has an alternative of some type that will work for you.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[RAM Engineer]

In my lead-up to buying a Ruger BH, I've been checking out the RW website and their frames. I was kind of surprised they only offer aluminum and brass as their options, but not steel. What are the factory grip frames made from?

[Crow Hunter]

I decided I want a Blackhawk, but I was wondering if there is any downside to the convertible versions vs the standard ones, other than price. Here are the two I’m looking at:

https://ruger.com/products/newModelBlackhawkStainless/specSheets/0309.html

https://ruger.com/products/newModelBlackhawkConvertible/specSheets/5245.html

Thanks in advance.

Jason

I have personally owned a pair of Davidsons special run 45 ACP/LC Vaqueros and two different versions of the .357/9mm convertibles. The older aluminum frame 6.5" bbl and one of the new Lipsey's flattops.

I don't own any of them anymore.

I didn't really notice any accuracy problems with the 9mm but I don't know that I am a good enough shot to notice.

The stainless Vaqueros I got rid of because I showed them to my Dad after I got them when he was eaten up with cancer (fuck cancer) and he had trouble holding them up. I can still see the look on his face. I couldn't stand to look at them after that. Otherwise they shot good enough for me although they always seemed "fat".

I got rid of the 6.5" bbl one because I hardly ever shot it but then I got to missing it and convinced myself that I needed one of the Lipsey's convertibles with the smaller frame. The frame might have been smaller but geeze, the thing weighed too much to do anything other than play with at the range. A buddy I work with wanted it more than I did so I sold it to him.

If the weight isn't a problem to you, they can be fun to shoot. I personally just went with a Single Six for when I want a single action fix. Although if I ever saw one of those Lipsey 45ACP/45LC flattops I would probably buy it and then regret it and get rid of it. :cool:

ETA: I am glad to see that Ruger finally edited the weight on their Lipsey Flattop. I used to say like 36 oz like the 45 version. It definitely wasn't!

[Totem Polar]

The stainless Vaqueros I got rid of because I showed them to my Dad after I got them when he was eaten up with cancer (fuck cancer) and he had trouble holding them up. I can still see the look on his face. I couldn't stand to look at them after that. Otherwise they shot good enough for me although they always seemed "fat".



As the proud son of a pretty great dad who’s 85 with a ton of health issues, I get that. Sucks.

I went through a pretty serious Ruger SA kick a few years back. I sort of see them like I see a Harley or something; they’re great if you really get into them and take them out for real every weekend, but otherwise they just become cool and shiny garage/safe queens.

I’m down to just my dad’s old Flatgate single-six and my 50th anniversary Blackhawk. Perfect pair, and the downsizing goes well with my recent caliber consolidation push.

I still want a Bisley.

And a Harley 48 or 72 1200…

:rolleyes:

[OlongJohnson]

That said, I have an appointment to talk with Ronnie Wells about building a custom grip frame for my Ruger Blackhawk, which I will then proclaim to the one true solution to the grip frame problem.

However much time you have set aside, double it. The guy is pleasant and he likes to tell stories.



In my lead-up to buying a Ruger BH, I've been checking out the RW website and their frames. I was kind of surprised they only offer aluminum and brass as their options, but not steel. What are the factory grip frames made from?

That's addressed in the SingleActions thread I linked. If I remember right, it's that aluminum and brass can be cut with the same cutting inserts. He just has to make a few simple changes to speeds and feeds in the CNC programs. There may also be some tolerance for cross-contamination of the chips (the scrap value of the chips sold to recyclers can be a significant financial aspect of running a machining operation). The cutting inserts used for steel are different, so it's a completely new setup on the machines, which takes a bunch of time. There is also no tolerance for mixing steel chips into the aluminum or brass chips, so the machines have to be perfectly cleaned when switching between materials, which also takes a bunch of time.

Factory grip frames are probably discussed in the gunblast link above a lot more accurately than I can recall.

[Eugene]

Search to make sure I'm not full of it, but the groove diameter is probably sized for .357 bullets. Accuracy at longer ranges may not be as good with .355 bullets. You could overcome that by loading 9mm cases with .356 or .357 bullets, but that's a possible hazard for your 9mm pistols and you might as well just load .357 cases the way you want.

I've not been able to tell a difference shooting .355 and .356 bullets. I figure manufacturing tolerances are probably bigger than .001, if you were to measure a batch of bullets you'll probably find a wider range than .355-.356.

[Duelist]

In my lead-up to buying a Ruger BH, I've been checking out the RW website and their frames. I was kind of surprised they only offer aluminum and brass as their options, but not steel. What are the factory grip frames made from?

Many, if not most, are aluminum, but there are steel ones as well. I don’t recall seeing a factory grip frame made of brass.

[oregon45]

Many, if not most, are aluminum, but there are steel ones as well. I don’t recall seeing a factory grip frame made of brass.

Ruger made Old Model Super Blackhawk grip frames in brass. They are relatively rare but come up for sale regularly on the Ruger Forum. Brass grip frames also were made by Qualite for several years in both standard and birdshead configurations. The original Ruger grip frames all were aluminum, and this led to decades of complaints about the use of "cheap" metal--it didn't help that the finish on the grip frames was often poor, and the fit of the frames to the receiver was a matter of happenstance. For many years it was common to see Ruger single actions with Ruger Old Army stainless grip frames fitted to them, because the Old Army was the only source of a stainless steel grip frame. It took until the middle 2000s for Ruger finally to have a line of steel grip frames suitable for use on all of their single actions.

One thing about single action grip frames is that blanket statements often obscure more than they illuminate. For instance, I prefer the Bisley grip for hard recoiling guns with barrels less than 7.5". For longer barrels in hard kicking calibers, like my 10.5" 44's and .357 Maximums, I like the standard Super Blackhawk grip frame, but only with grips that fill the space between the rear of the trigger guard and the grip frame to prevent my index finger from getting battered. I find the less vertical angle of the SBH grip to give me better leverage over the long barreled guns, leading to fewer misses due to elevation misalignment (I still miss a lot, but for other reasons). For light recoiling, fast handling, guns I prefer a steel XR3 frame like those on the New Vaqueros and New Model Flattops because the additional weight of the grip frame reduces the "roll" of the gun during recoil, but for carrying in a belt holster for long periods of time, I prefer the original XR3 alloy grip frame, and I keep an Old Model 44 Magnum as one of my field revolvers for exactly that reason despite the "whippy" recoil it delivers.

The variety of grip frames and grip styles available make it possible to fit just about any Ruger single action to any shooter.

[ECVMatt]

Here is a quick write up on my .357/9MM convertible:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/got-some-time-in-on-the-blackhawk-convertable-today.880843/#post-11768849

I also have a 45 Colt/ACP SS Bisley, but to be honest I have never used the .45 ACP cylinder. It is nice in crazy ammo times to have options to keep shooting. I have a few Ruger BH's and they have all served me well.

Take the plunge!

[jtcarm]

My first CF handgun was an Old Model .357/9mm convertible.

47 years later the 9mm cylinder is still unfired.

[JonInWA]

I have a 4 5/8" Blackhawk Convertible in stainless, magnificently tuned by Ruger for me. While I usually use the .357 cylinder (with Hornady Custom 158 gr XTPs), in close-to medium distances using 124 gr Sellier & Bellot 9mm I expereince little to no degridation in accuracy, and they share the same POA/POI.

Once a year, in a club IDPA match oriented to BUG guns (intitial load and all reloads limited to 6 rounds) I shoot it in a bona-fide IDPA match. Hey, for the first rounds, I'm actually reasonably competitive time-wise, but the wheels fall off with the SA reloads...But my accuracy is equal to the best I do with my best-performing "real" semi-autos and DA revolvers. And I have an absolute blast. I do it with both .357 magnum and 9mm in alternating years.

Best, Jon

[Rock185]

Ram, I had one of the stainless Lipseys .357/9mm convertibles. Out to 25 yards, I could not determine any accuracy difference between .357 and 9mm. In most any discussion of .357/9mm convertibles, bore size, groove diameter differences, etc. usually comes up. FWIW, SAAMI specs for .357, .38 Spcl. and 9mm bore and groove diameters are the same, i.e., .346" and .355".

ETA: I don't know of any drawbacks to the convertible, other than price, as you mentioned. IMHO, it's not a bad thing to have the option of using the most popular centerfire pistol cartridge on the planet....

[Stephanie B]

My first CF handgun was an Old Model .357/9mm convertible.

47 years later the 9mm cylinder is still unfired.

I bought a Bicentennial Blackhawk in .357/9mm. It took me 40 years to put rounds through the 9mm cylinder.