S&W M&P 10 MM

[RONK]

Hi,Smith and Wesson is coming out with an M&P in 10 MM,I don't know any details yet,sorry.

[wvincent]

Hi,Smith and Wesson is coming out with an M&P in 10 MM,I don't know any details yet,sorry.

Why?
Is 10mm really that popular at this time?
Serious question.

[HCM]

Why?
Is 10mm really that popular at this time?
Serious question.

Not in PF circles but general population- yes.

Also given the durability issues the M&P had with .357 SIG not sure how it will hold up to 10mm.

[Evil_Ed]

Mild interest, strictly based on them being one of the original offerors of 10mm pistols and having done a decent amount of engineering work to make it feasible...

Having said that, my P220 is one chonky 10mm boi, the G20C I had was entertaining but I'm not sure I'd buy another one (if I did, it would be a G40, not a 20)...and I don't know what Smith would bring to the table that isn't already covered by the 220 or G40.

79296

I've since replaced springs with a Gray Guns spring kit, and the trigger with one of the Gray Guns longer triggers, which fits me much better than the thin Sig one.

[HCM]

Mild interest, strictly based on them being one of the original offerors of 10mm pistols and having done a decent amount of engineering work to make it feasible...

Having said that, my P220 is one chonky 10mm boi, the G20C I had was entertaining but I'm not sure I'd buy another one (if I did, it would be a G40, not a 20)...and I don't know what Smith would bring to the table that isn't already covered by the 220 or G40.

79296

I've since replaced springs with a Gray Guns spring kit, and the trigger with one of the Gray Guns longer triggers, which fits me much better than the thin Sig one.

I suspect S&W is going after the SA XD 10mm customer base.

Gun companies exist to make....... money.

[GJM]

In the mountain west and Alaska, the typical buyer thinks service pistols suitable for field use begin and end with 10.

[MandoWookie]

Mild interest, strictly based on them being one of the original offerors of 10mm pistols and having done a decent amount of engineering work to make it feasible...

Having said that, my P220 is one chonky 10mm boi, the G20C I had was entertaining but I'm not sure I'd buy another one (if I did, it would be a G40, not a 20)...and I don't know what Smith would bring to the table that isn't already covered by the 220 or G40.

79296

I've since replaced springs with a Gray Guns spring kit, and the trigger with one of the Gray Guns longer triggers, which fits me much better than the thin Sig one.

I wish they would use that steel frame on a .45. As for the 10mm M&P, I have the .45, the only thing 10mm has ever interested me in is the ability to fit another couple of 200+ grain projectiles in a magazine, relative to .45.

[GJM]

If this pistol shoots wide meplat and higher power factor ammo reliably, it will be a welcome addition, and they will sell many of them.

[MandoWookie]

If this pistol shoots wide meplat and higher power factor ammo reliably, it will be a welcome addition, and they will sell many of them.

I cannot remember, did you do any testing with the Sig 10mm, as it was hyped as being 'the' solution for 10mm.

[GJM]

I cannot remember, did you do any testing with the Sig 10mm, as it was hyped as being 'the' solution for 10mm.

Nope.

[Evil_Ed]

I wish they would use that steel frame on a .45. As for the 10mm M&P, I have the .45, the only thing 10mm has ever interested me in is the ability to fit another couple of 200+ grain projectiles in a magazine, relative to .45.

They did! I got lucky enough to find one of them a few years ago. The model was 220R-45-SBSS, and it was in the same 37B prefix as the 220 10mms, same front checkering, etc.

Funnily enough, cruising one of the Sig forums, apparently a known issue on higher round count steel frame 45s is parts breakages - since the steel frame has less "give" than the alloy frames, the forces get transferred more to the smaller parts, which break more often...

Pardon the dirt and schmutz on it, I just dug it out for some photos for a proof of life (and to make sure I didn't forget in which stack of crap in the safe it was buried in):

79303
79308
79305
79306

Edit - if you have money coming out of your ears, you could of course just buy the 10mm, replace the locking block with a 45, and swap a 45 upper onto it...it'd be an expensive way to get you there, but you'd get a steel framed 45 that way...

[Suvorov]

I like the 10mm cartridge. I have taken one deer with it and it performed well. I also like the idea of having a 10mm with me when I'm in the back country.

I have a S&W1006 which serves as my back country gun, but it is a tank and I wouldn't mind having a lighter gun (but then again I do most of my back country activities mounted so it really doesnt matter).

I also have an M&P45 with which I am very impressed with. I have to admit that the idea of that pistol being able to spit 10mm round is appealing to me.

All that said, when I get my ass out of Kalifornia and start spending as much time back country as I would like, my work gun will be a Glock so I probably should just take the mark of the beast and get a G20 if I am not longer man enough to pack the 1006.

Still, I like the idea of an M&P in 10 Mike Mike.

[Inkwell 41]

Like many here, I’m old enough to remember the whole Dornaus and Dixon, Bren Ten debacle. When Vltor was showing their revived version, many, many years ago, I got pretty excited. Disappointment being a long time friend, when the production gun never materialized, my interest in the cartridge waned. A G20.5 MOS might catch my interest, but I won’t get my hopes up on that, either.

[MandoWookie]

They did! I got lucky enough to find one of them a few years ago. The model was 220R-45-SBSS, and it was in the same 37B prefix as the 220 10mms, same front checkering, etc.

Funnily enough, cruising one of the Sig forums, apparently a known issue on higher round count steel frame 45s is parts breakages - since the steel frame has less "give" than the alloy frames, the forces get transferred more to the smaller parts, which break more often...

Pardon the dirt and schmutz on it, I just dug it out for some photos for a proof of life (and to make sure I didn't forget in which stack of crap in the safe it was buried in):

79303
79308
79305
79306

Edit - if you have money coming out of your ears, you could of course just buy the 10mm, replace the locking block with a 45, and swap a 45 upper onto it...it'd be an expensive way to get you there, but you'd get a steel framed 45 that way...


Well dang, I remember researching that a couple years back as after handling the 10mm, but all I could find was the 'roll your own' solution. Guessing it wasn't really a huge run?

[TheNewbie]

I like the 10mm cartridge. I have taken one deer with it and it performed well. I also like the idea of having a 10mm with me when I'm in the back country.

I have a S&W1006 which serves as my back country gun, but it is a tank and I wouldn't mind having a lighter gun (but then again I do most of my back country activities mounted so it really doesnt matter).

I also have an M&P45 with which I am very impressed with. I have to admit that the idea of that pistol being able to spit 10mm round is appealing to me.

All that said, when I get my ass out of Kalifornia and start spending as much time back country as I would like, my work gun will be a Glock so I probably should just take the mark of the beast and get a G20 if I am not longer man enough to pack the 1006.

Still, I like the idea of an M&P in 10 Mike Mike.


Guadalupe mountains. Enough reason to move to Texas.

Can’t wait to get back out there soon.

[MattyD380]

Smith should just make a new 1006.

[HCM]

Smith should just make a new 1006.

Not economically viable.

[MattyD380]

Not economically viable.

Everyone would have said that about the Hi Power until about 2 weeks ago.

[HCM]

Everyone would have said that about the Hi Power until about 2 weeks ago.

First the HP has a much wider market than all the S&W DA autos combined.

Second, SA is making it work by importing forgings from overseas (Korea) similar to what they did with 1911s built on Brazilian forgings. That doesn't mean FN/Browning could meet the same price points. Would you want a 3rd world clone of a 1006 ?

Third the HP (like the SIG Classic P series) is a simpler design and cheaper to make that 3rd gen S&W autos. Like revolvers some people have mistakenly fallen into thinking of 3rd gen S&W autos as "cheap guns" due to the period when they were available as LE surplus.

[MattyD380]

First the HP has a much wider market than all the S&W DA autos combined.

Second, SA is making it work by importing forgings from overseas (Korea) similar to what they did with 1911s built on Brazilian forgings. That doesn't mean FN/Browning could meet the same price points. Would you want a 3rd world clone of a 1006 ?

Third the HP (like the SIG Classic P series) is a simpler design and cheaper to make that 3rd gen S&W autos. Like revolvers some people have mistakenly fallen into thinking of 3rd gen S&W autos as "cheap guns" due to the period when they were available as LE surplus.

Smith and Wesson has their own forge, I believe. So… they wouldn’t need to import anything. And it’s not to say they couldn’t/shouldn’t improve/simplify the design (like removing those camming lugs on the inside of the frame) like SA did.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

If this proves to have better reliability than a G20 I am fairly interested.

[revchuck38]

I have no use for a 10mm…but an M&P in that caliber would be cool, and I already have holsters for it (assuming it’s the same size as the 45).

[HCM]

Smith and Wesson has their own forge, I believe. So… they wouldn’t need to import anything. And it’s not to say they couldn’t/shouldn’t improve/simplify the design (like removing those camming lugs on the inside of the frame) like SA did.

Sourcing forgings overseas is an economic / price point issue, not a technical capability issue.

It's not that they (or SA) couldn't make make the forgings, it's that it would cost too much for them to do it.

Gun companies exist to make money, not guns, and a $2,000 1006 is not a money maker.

[Up1911Fan]

Has this rumor been validated anywhere?

[Evil_Ed]

Well dang, I remember researching that a couple years back as after handling the 10mm, but all I could find was the 'roll your own' solution. Guessing it wasn't really a huge run?

I don't know if it was a one time only thing, or if it was a limited run that they would do every few years, and it just hasn't come up again yet?

Then again, it is Sig...the "let's make one with diamond plate on the slide!" followed immediately by "Let's never acknowledge it's existence or sell parts for it again ever"...so who knows.

[HCM]

If this proves to have better reliability than a G20 I am fairly interested.

??

Better reliability with what ammo?

The G20 runs just fine with standard factory 10mm loads.

If you want to run hotter ammo you need to restoring the gun accordingly.

There aren’t many semi auto pistols which work reliably with Flatnose hard cast lead bullets in stock form.

[Spartan1980]

Also given the durability issues the M&P had with .357 SIG not sure how it will hold up to 10mm.

Durability issues? Haven't heard of any of those. Extraction issues, yes for sure. I have a factory .357Sig barrel for my M&P 40 and it's ain't good unless you scrub the chamber after 3 to 4 mags, but nothing has ever broken on it. It's sad because it's likely the most accurate handgun in my safe and runs great right up to the point that it doesn't. I can shoot multiple hundreds of .40 through it without any bother at all.

Seriously if you have any sources I'd love to read up on it.

[HCM]

Durability issues? Haven't heard of any of those. Extraction issues, yes for sure. I have a factory .357Sig barrel for my M&P 40 and it's ain't good unless you scrub the chamber after 3 to 4 mags, but nothing has ever broken on it. It's sad because it's likely the most accurate handgun in my safe and runs great right up to the point that it doesn't. I can shoot multiple hundreds of .40 through it without any bother at all.

Seriously if you have any sources I'd love to read up on it.

Open sources ? No.

Based on reports from the NC and NM state police both of which dropped them. NC kept the 357 round and went to SIG P229DAKs, NM kept the M&P but went to 9mm.

In fairness, the various Glocks, Berettas etc in .357 have had similar issues. The SIG 226/229 are the only .357 SIG chambered guns that have held up satisfactorily and run reliably, IF proper PMCS is performed.

[MichaelD]

If this turns out to be true I'll buy one as my first non-9mm M&P.

[UNM1136]

Open sources ? No.

Based on reports from the NC and NM state police both of which dropped them. NC kept the 357 round and went to SIG P229DAKs, NM kept the M&P but went to 9mm.

In fairness, the various Glocks, Berettas etc in .357 have had similar issues. The SIG 226/229 are the only .357 SIG chambered guns that have held up satisfactorily and run reliably, IF proper PMCS is performed.

Spent some time with the NMSP guys involved with the decision. The guns shot themselves apart pretty quickly. Glocks did too. PMCS was something to be learned about. Those cops are issued at least a case of ammo a year. Some of them actually shoot. Others trade the ammo to poor souls who need it...

pat

[MattyD380]

Sourcing forgings overseas is an economic / price point issue, not a technical capability issue.

It's not that they (or SA) couldn't make make the forgings, it's that it would cost too much for them to do it.

Gun companies exist to make money, not guns, and a $2,000 1006 is not a money maker.

I agree that a $2,000 1006 isn't a good idea. I'm just not sure I agree it would have to cost $2,000; the presence of Sig Legions, Springfield SA-35s/Mil-Specs, SW1911s, CZ-97s, Beretta 92Xs and others at far below that suggests, to me, it could be done for less.

I feel the 10mm is an "aspirational" caliber in search of a gun with a soul. I just don't think a plastic M&P is that gun. And if you really need a 10mm for the back country, more utilitarian options already exist. But hey... maybe I'm wrong and the thing will sell like crazy.

All that said...

A steel-framed M&P (a la Sig AXG & Walther Q4 SF) in 10mm would get me excited.

[MandoWookie]

I agree that a $2,000 1006 isn't a good idea. I'm just not sure I agree it would have to cost $2,000; the presence of Sig Legions, Springfield SA-35s/Mil-Specs, SW1911s, CZ-97s, Beretta 92Xs and others at far below that suggests, to me, it could be done for less.

I feel the 10mm is an "aspirational" caliber in search of a gun with a soul. I just don't think a plastic M&P is that gun. And if you really need a 10mm for the back country, more utilitarian options already exist. But hey... maybe I'm wrong and the thing will sell like crazy.

All that said...

A steel-framed M&P (a la Sig AXG & Walther Q4 SF) in 10mm would get me excited.

How is another plastic fantastic in 10mm not utilitarian? The M&P45 is probably the most utilitarian .45 in production.

[MattyD380]

How is another plastic fantastic in 10mm not utilitarian? The M&P45 is probably the most utilitarian .45 in production.

I wasn't suggesting that it wasn't. I was suggesting that other utilitarian options already exist (e.g., G29 & G20) so there's not really a point to Smith introducing more of the same, to the same segment.

[Bigghoss]

I sold off all my M&P's and don't have a need for a 10mm, so put me down for two M&P10's. Assuming they eat the hot stuff.

[HCM]

I sold off all my M&P's and don't have a need for a 10mm, so put me down for two M&P10's. Assuming they eat the hot stuff.

Why would they?

If you are S&W are you going to engineer the gun around $2 to $3 per round ammo no one actually shoots or regular 10mm FMJ from BassCabelas or Academy shot by 99% of 10mm owners ?

If you set it up from the factory for hot stuff at the expense of reliability with standard 10mm you are setting your self up for large numbers of unnecessary customer service claims which cut into your profits. Since gun companies exist to make money why would that do that ?

Other than the HK USP 45 series ability to work with 45acp through 45 Super what other semi auto works with both ?

[echo5charlie]

Has this rumor been validated anywhere?

FWIW, I just received a promo stand for the M&P 10mm.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211103/432a7f7dcd0bd0ec02ef31cb8a4a19c4.jpg

[Suvorov]

Are manual thumb safeties still available on the M&P?

[revchuck38]

Are manual thumb safeties still available on the M&P?

Well, they're still cataloged. Whether they're in production is a good question. My two 1.0 M&P45s have them.

[MandoWookie]

I wasn't suggesting that it wasn't. I was suggesting that other utilitarian options already exist (e.g., G29 & G20) so there's not really a point to Smith introducing more of the same, to the same segment.

Except there is a segment for whom the N-frame Glocks do not work, and prefer the M&P ergos. The M&P 45 has a rep for being a solid accurate gun that handles 45 better than most. If that translates over to 10mm, I could see a lot of folk who like the 10 being interested.

And that's before you get to aftermarket things like APEX triggers, with the FSS and the like, that you cannot effectively replicate on the Glock.

[MandoWookie]

Well, they're still cataloged. Whether they're in production is a good question. My two 1.0 M&P45s have them.

There are still the parts available to convert to safety's from multiple vendors(including Smith themselves last I checked), so it shouldn't be hard to convert if need be.
But I have seen both available on local gun store shelves recently, so I wouldn't see why they wouldn't offer it on this model.

[MattyD380]

Except there is a segment for whom the N-frame Glocks do not work, and prefer the M&P ergos. The M&P 45 has a rep for being a solid accurate gun that handles 45 better than most. If that translates over to 10mm, I could see a lot of folk who like the 10 being interested.

And that's before you get to aftermarket things like APEX triggers, with the FSS and the like, that you cannot effectively replicate on the Glock.

Fair. I have heard good things about the M&P 45s. Never actually shot one, though.

[Brianjkeene]

Would be great if they take the opportunity to introduce a Shield Plus style trigger to the double stack M&P lines with this release.

[Clusterfrack]

...other utilitarian options already exist (e.g., G29 & G20)

I don't find the Glock 10mm very utilitarian because--at least in my experience--they aren't reliable with full-power 10mm loads unless you do significant aftermarket modifications (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?25552-10mm-200gr-Hardcast-Load&p=866746&viewfull=1#post866746). I'm not an M&P fan, but am very glad to see this gun released because it keeps the caliber alive and brings more competition to the field. Hopefully Glock is paying attention?

[FPS]

For a 10mm bear gun, there is no reason to fuss with the problems of hardcast ammo (the wide meplat issue GJM has talked about repeatedly) now that we have Lehigh Xtreme Pentrator bullets. Xtreme Penetrators really are game changers in a variety of pistol calibers. They do everything hardcast can do without the feeding issues.

When I was fussing with 10mm pre-Lehigh, I had two main issue with my Glock 29SF - reliable feeding of the hardcast ammo (my KKM barrel with smaller throat was part of the problem but I was trying to avoid Glock "smilies" on the brass with the stock barrel) and practice ammo not properly stabilizing at higher speeds. I remember having accuracy problems and some keyholing using 180 grain RNFP copper plated - but perhaps things have changed now and maybe it was also a function of my inexperience at the time.

Everyone gets obsessed with caliber and power with bear guns but to me, accuracy doesn't get taken into account nearly enough. Especially with handguns, you must get accurate hits. I think this was solidified by Phil Shoemaker's success with 9mm Buffalo Bore hardcast against a grizzly:

"I have killed enough bears to know how important shot placement can be, even with large-bore rifles. I was well aware of the limitations of my 9mm pistol, even with Buffalo Bore ammo. I was aiming for a vital area with each shot; because it all took place between 6 and 8 feet, they were not far off. But hitting the head and brain of a highly animated and agitated animal is a difficult shot."

https://concealednation.org/2017/05/grizzly-bear-vs-9mm-the-caliber-debate-gets-ruined-for-many-people/

My own bear gun journy started with the S&W 629 44 mag with 300 grain Buffalo Bore. Then I tried getting accurate hits at speed and moved down to 10mm. Now most of the time I just carry 9mm Xtreme Penetrators in my P30SK. I feel better more confident of getting successful hits with 15 rounds of those (plus a fast mag change) than my other options.

I think 10mm is a cool round but for most people, I am just not sure it is necessary or practical unless you really practice and know you can consistently get good hits with full powered loads.

[Spartan1980]

I don't find the Glock 10mm very utilitarian because--at least in my experience--they aren't reliable with full-power 10mm loads unless you do significant aftermarket modifications (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?25552-10mm-200gr-Hardcast-Load&p=866746&viewfull=1#post866746). I'm not an M&P fan, but am very glad to see this gun released because it keeps the caliber alive and brings more competition to the field. Hopefully Glock is paying attention?

I'll just wait over here on Springfield Armory to build the Bren Ten.

[Clusterfrack]

Xtreme Penetrators really are game changers in a variety of pistol calibers. They do everything hardcast can do without the feeding issues.


That is not consistent with my G20 tests of full power Lehigh 10mm loads. I could reproduce the same FTF malfunctions with XP as I had with wide meplat hardcast.

The same solution fixed the issue with both bullet types: heavy mag springs from 460 Rowland.

[03RN]

For a 10mm bear gun, there is no reason to fuss with the problems of hardcast ammo (the wide meplat issue GJM has talked about repeatedly) now that we have Lehigh Xtreme Pentrator bullets. Xtreme Penetrators really are game changers in a variety of pistol calibers. They do everything hardcast can do without the feeding issues.

When I was fussing with 10mm pre-Lehigh, I had two main issue with my Glock 29SF - reliable feeding of the hardcast ammo (my KKM barrel with smaller throat was part of the problem but I was trying to avoid Glock "smilies" on the brass with the stock barrel) and practice ammo not properly stabilizing at higher speeds. I remember having accuracy problems and some keyholing using 180 grain RNFP copper plated - but perhaps things have changed now and maybe it was also a function of my inexperience at the time.

Everyone gets obsessed with caliber and power with bear guns but to me, accuracy doesn't get taken into account nearly enough. Especially with handguns, you must get accurate hits. I think this was solidified by Phil Shoemaker's success with 9mm Buffalo Bore hardcast against a grizzly:

"I have killed enough bears to know how important shot placement can be, even with large-bore rifles. I was well aware of the limitations of my 9mm pistol, even with Buffalo Bore ammo. I was aiming for a vital area with each shot; because it all took place between 6 and 8 feet, they were not far off. But hitting the head and brain of a highly animated and agitated animal is a difficult shot."

https://concealednation.org/2017/05/grizzly-bear-vs-9mm-the-caliber-debate-gets-ruined-for-many-people/

My own bear gun journy started with the S&W 629 44 mag with 300 grain Buffalo Bore. Then I tried getting accurate hits at speed and moved down to 10mm. Now most of the time I just carry 9mm Xtreme Penetrators in my P30SK. I feel better more confident of getting successful hits with 15 rounds of those (plus a fast mag change) than my other options.

I think 10mm is a cool round but for most people, I am just not sure it is necessary or practical unless you really practice and know you can consistently get good hits with full powered loads.

I always thought this was an interesting part.

"Larry and his wife were fishing with me, and because we were going to a small stream I had fished before, which had numerous large male brown bears, I decided to take my Smith & Wesson 3953 DAO 9mm, rather than the S&W 629 .44 Mag. Mountain Gun I have carried for the past 25 years, as the larger boars are usually less of a problem than sows with cubs."

He brought the 9 because he didn't think he would need it. It's not what he carries now either.

[FPS]

That is not consistent with my G20 tests of full power Lehigh 10mm loads. I could reproduce the same FTF malfunctions with XP as I had with wide meplat hardcast.

The same solution fixed the issue with both bullet types: heavy mag springs from 460 Rowland.

Interesting, I think you are the first I have heard having issues with them but I haven't tracked it all that closely in the last few years.



He brought the 9 because he didn't think he would need it. It's not what he carries now either.

If I felt confident I could get good hits with my 629 and not have to reload, I would probably do that too but it would take a lot of time and a lot of expensive ammo to get to that place. 10mm I could get there faster.

[GJM]

Believe I reported in another thread, that a few months ago I tried Underwood Lehigh penetrators in a G4 20, and had a stoppage.

[Clusterfrack]

Believe I reported in another thread, that a few months ago I tried Underwood Lehigh penetrators in a G4 20, and had a stoppage.

I haven't seen many reports of high-round count tests of XP 10mm. Mine were only ~50 rounds. I forget how many GJM shot. I am fairly confident that the main cause of the FTFs is increased slide velocity, and failure of the OEM magazine spring to deliver rounds in time. A flat wide meplat makes this more likely. However, even with very rounded bullets the OEM G20 is still operating on the edge of failure with full-power loads. That's not what I want in a field gun that gets dirty and wet, and is required for life-safety events. After adding aftermarket springs and mag shims, mine has been flawless and I now trust it. If I bought a new G20, I'd have to do the mods and testing all over again to feel confident.

[cheby]

After spending a few thousands on various 10mm ammo including the XP while testing my glocks I finally gave up and sold my 10mm glock stuff. I think Clusterfrack is correct about the magazine springs; however, I don't think I want to go down this rabbit hole again to test and verify it. A few hundred rds through such a heavily modified pistol may be not a sufficient sample to draw a conclusion. IMHO... I really hope SW will make a better pistol.

[spinmove_]

At this point, doesn’t it just make more sense to just scoop up an M&P 40 and stuff it with LeHigh Xtreme Penetrators?

[GJM]

At this point, doesn’t it just make more sense to just scoop up an M&P 40 and stuff it with LeHigh Xtreme Penetrators?

Don't know about the new M&P, but with Glocks that is exactly what I have done with the 23 MOS field pistol project. The .40 Underwood Lehigh is 140 grains at 1,250 fps vs 140 at 1,500 with the 10mm. I think 1,250 fps is enough velocity to penetrate while being more in the envelope of reliable pistol functioning.

[Clusterfrack]

Don't know about the new M&P, but with Glocks that is exactly what I have done with the 23 MOS field pistol project. The .40 Underwood Lehigh is 140 grains at 1,250 fps vs 140 at 1,500 with the 10mm. I think 1,250 fps is enough velocity to penetrate while being more in the envelope of reliable pistol functioning.

This makes a lot of sense. And for me, there's a lot of attraction to just loading 9mm XP in my EDC carry gun and counting on a decisive headshot to solve the grizzly problem. The thing that keeps me coming back to my modded G20 is being able to shoot 200gr hardcast, and the (admittedly uneducated) hope of a body shot slowing a grizzly down enough to stop an attack.

[cheby]

At this point, doesn’t it just make more sense to just scoop up an M&P 40 and stuff it with LeHigh Xtreme Penetrators?

Yeah, that is what I did as well. I just picked up a basically new P229 in 40SW. I shoot it so well that I see no reason for 10mm even if it works with bear loads. I have a lot of Lehigh XT bullets left from my 10mm exploration. I reload 40sw for my competition guns all the time. There's no way I can practice 10mm enough compared to my 40SW competition guns that I shoot a lot.

[GJM]

I am looking forward to this new M&P as much for clues about the development of the M&P line, as for a 10mm.

I have been competing with a 5 inch CORE with a FSS trigger and Apex barrel. Even though it would make sense to carry a M&P, the Glock is better for me right now. This is what I don't like about the M&P for carry. It really needs an after market barrel and trigger. Holsters for use with a TLR-7 are not common. The optics system isn't best of class. The BUIS are sharp! I hope they address barrel, trigger and optics with the 10 or other variants.

[mmc45414]

Are manual thumb safeties still available on the M&P?

Well, they're still cataloged. Whether they're in production is a good question. My two 1.0 M&P45s have them.
I did a search on an example SKU13144 and it looks like there are plenty of them out in the wild:
79460

[mmc45414]

FWIW, I just received a promo stand for the M&P 10mm.atalk-cdn.com/20211103/432a7f7dcd0bd0ec02ef31cb8a4a19c4.jpg[/IMG]
Well I guess that takes it past the rumor stage! :cool:
This is another one of those things I want and don't need...
I have always thought the cartridge is cool so that is probably reason enough. If it is a 4.5-5" gun like the 45 then I will want a conversion barrel so I can shoot up a bunch of forty, never mind that I have a perfectly good forty gun that I don't shoot...

[spinmove_]

I am looking forward to this new M&P as much for clues about the development of the M&P line, as for a 10mm.

I have been competing with a 5 inch CORE with a FSS trigger and Apex barrel. Even though it would make sense to carry a M&P, the Glock is better for me right now. This is what I don't like about the M&P for carry. It really needs an after market barrel and trigger. Holsters for use with a TLR-7 are not common. The optics system isn't best of class. The BUIS are sharp! I hope they address barrel, trigger and optics with the 10 or other variants.

I was under the impression that .40 and .45 variants of M&P weren’t in need of a barrel swap. Have there been reports of poorly performing M&P40s?

[MandoWookie]

I was under the impression that .40 and .45 variants of M&P weren’t in need of a barrel swap. Have there been reports of poorly performing M&P40s?

At least with the .45s, I have read that the factory barrel accuracy puts some custom 1911s to shame, but I can't shoot mine well enough to tell. The 40s I dont know, but all issues I've ever heard have been with 9mm.

[GJM]

Here is my experience. The first Gen 9mm pistols shot patterns, the .40 pistols were good by the standards of their time, and the 45's shot well by any standard.

Since then, we have Gen 5 Glocks that shoot HK and P series kind of groups. The 2.0 9mm pistols shoot better than the legacy M&P pistols but not in the same league with a Gen 5 Glock, hence my comment about needing a barrel. I haven't shot a 2.0 40 or 45, so no idea about them.

[Spartan1980]

Here is my experience. The first Gen 9mm pistols shot patterns, the .40 pistols were good by the standards of their time, and the 45's shot well by any standard.


I can second this. I've had the following results all out of 1.0 variants:

M&9 9Pro: (It shot OK, I could keep almost every shot on a full size steel IPSC target at 50 yards hitting it at least somewhere but it was no bullseye pistol by any stretch. Not off a bench but in a class. I was ringing the steel about 14 out of 17 rounds at speed)

M&P 9FS: (similar to the Pro)

M&P 40: (Haven't shot it at distance or paper enough to know but seems plenty adequate)

M&P 40: w/factory S&W .357Sig barrel bought from Midway for $88 installed: (Freaking laser. Picking off fragments of clays on the back berm is, to put it simply, easy from a bench. About 30 yards.)

M&P45: (First M&P I bought. It was an early version, right after release and shot about equal to my SA TRP)

M&P 9 Shield (Sample of Two): Bought these 3-4 years apart, first one was probably in the first batch released without the thumb safety. Both shoot well as far as accuracy but an interesting factoid. My first one had a horrendous gritty and hard trigger. A local smith worked it over and got it down to just over 4lbs with a decent break and very good reset. Then I bought the wife a new one and hers was almost as good as the first one that had been worked. Accuracy is better than the FS & Pro on both samples. A friend and local LEO trainer related that some of his officers were pissed that they scored higher with their backups than with the FS duty issue guns.

I love the M&P platform but the accuracy of the larger 9mm variants have always been disappointing and somewhat perplexing as to why S&W wouldn't address it for so long. All of the other factors about them kept me interested though.

[MandoWookie]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2021/11/05/budget-friendly-trigger-kit-mp-2-0-apex/

Figure this might be topical to the thread.

[falnovice]

Any updates on the 10m M&P?

[TC215]

Any updates on the 10m M&P?

https://snwcdnprod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/spec-sheets/13387-mp-specsheet.pdf

https://snwcdnprod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/spec-sheets/13388-mp-specsheet.pdf

https://snwcdnprod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/spec-sheets/13389-mp-specsheet.pdf

https://snwcdnprod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/spec-sheets/13390-mp-specsheet.pdf

[falnovice]

https://snwcdnprod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/spec-sheets/13387-mp-specsheet.pdf

https://snwcdnprod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/spec-sheets/13388-mp-specsheet.pdf

https://snwcdnprod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/spec-sheets/13389-mp-specsheet.pdf

https://snwcdnprod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/spec-sheets/13390-mp-specsheet.pdf

Thanks buddy!

Some actually usable front serrations? Wooweee!

[GJM]

https://snwcdnprod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/spec-sheets/13387-mp-specsheet.pdf

https://snwcdnprod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/spec-sheets/13388-mp-specsheet.pdf

https://snwcdnprod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/spec-sheets/13389-mp-specsheet.pdf

https://snwcdnprod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/spec-sheets/13390-mp-specsheet.pdf

This is awesome -- new trigger and optics ready!

[Gadfly]

The real questions,

1. Can it RELIABLY handle full power 10mm. Like the 1400fps stuff? (Not that I would run that, but a 10mm should run ALL 10mm, not just the weak stuff. Lookin at you original Glock 20…)

2. Can I get a .40 conversation barrel and finally have gun gun that will reliably eat .40 long term?


I don’t need another caliber or a “bear gun”… but I am still intrigued.

[GJM]

The real questions,

1. Can it RELIABLY handle full power 10mm. Like the 1400fps stuff? (Not that I would run that, but a 10mm should run ALL 10mm, not just the weak stuff. Lookin at you original Glock 20…)

2. Can I get a .40 conversation barrel and finally have gun gun that will reliably eat .40 long term?


I don’t need another caliber or a “bear gun”… but I am still intrigued.

All good questions, hopefully to be answered by next summer. As soon as I get one, I will run Underwood Lehigh penetrator and assess function.

I feel pretty confident that the redesigned Gen 5 Glock MOS will hold up, as the slide is about three ounces heavier.

[Corse]

The real questions,

1. Can it RELIABLY handle full power 10mm. Like the 1400fps stuff? (Not that I would run that, but a 10mm should run ALL 10mm, not just the weak stuff. Lookin at you original Glock 20…)

2. Can I get a .40 conversation barrel and finally have gun gun that will reliably eat .40 long term?


I don’t need another caliber or a “bear gun”… but I am still intrigued.

I didn’t know the G20’s failed. Was it just from the barrel and lack of case support or something else?

[4RNR]

I didn’t know the G20’s failed. Was it just from the barrel and lack of case support or something else?Never heard of that issue either. Curious if the polar bear patrol in Greenland just likes to show off their 40 +p to the wildlife or if they load their G20 with actual 10mm

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[VT1032]

2. Can I get a .40 conversation barrel and finally have gun gun that will reliably eat .40 long term?



Does the M&P40 not? Serious question. I was not aware of any real issues with those. My beat to shit VSP trade in example ran without a bobble, not that I shot it that much. Sold it like an idiot. One of the few sales I regret.

[Bergeron]

I’m almost disappointed with myself by how curious I am over the 4.6” thumb safety version. A WML and a sealed emitter optic, and I am sold.

I was super impressed with the .45 full size, and a bit less so with the smaller caliber guns.

I only care if it’ll shoot the 180s @ 1200 that seem so popular, if only for how available the loading are in stores. I can be quite happy with .40-spec out of a Ten, depending upon application. That .45 just fit and worked in ways I didn’t experience with the 9s and 40s; I hope the experience transfers.

[GJM]

My question, and I don't know the answer, is what is the reliability of Underwood 140 grain penetrators at 1,500 fps out of the new M&P, versus the same 140 grain penetrators at 1,250 fps out of the Glock 23 MOS?

[Brianjkeene]

Fingers crossed this new trigger has similar travel and break characteristics as the shield plus. really hoping it breaks further forward in the trigger guard than the current hinged trigger'd guns.

[GJM]

Fingers crossed this new trigger has similar travel and break characteristics as the shield plus. really hoping it breaks further forward in the trigger guard than the current hinged trigger'd guns.

I think this is a really big deal, and hope it finds its way to all 2.0 M&P pistols.

[Gadfly]

Does the M&P40 not? Serious question. I was not aware of any real issues with those. My beat to shit VSP trade in example ran without a bobble, not that I shot it that much. Sold it like an idiot. One of the few sales I regret.

The ammo we once issued, 155gr at @1250fps was notorious for beating guns apart. I was on my third locking block pin on my Gen 3 Glock 22…. Beretta had to redesign their locking block and slide into the Brigadier and the A1 models, as the original 96 just could not take the pressure. And the original m&p .40 had issues with sear bounce under recoil that would leave you with a dead trigger.

Now, all these issues arouse from using really hot .40 ammo. Agencies like the FBI who went softer, like 165gr at 950fps had a lot fewer problems. But they “cut the balls off their rounds” as an old salty armorer instructor mentioned.

So in most .40cal guns, the ammo you select has a great effect on the longevity and reliability of the pistol.

Now, Glock had increased the slide mass on the new Gen 5 22 and 23, so that should remedy the issue. The M&P enhanced the strength of the sear spring, and solved the issue years back. Beretta designed the storm and APX to deal with .40 since their 96 series had issues. Now that the .40 is basically dead in most LE circles, the kinks are finally worked out in most of the guns.


As to 10mm, many guns like the original Glock 22 and Delta Elite did NOT like full power 10mm, and the guns quickly beat themselves apart. The 1076 issued to the FBI also had a lot of issues with full power ammo, and the agents scores on qual dropped significantly u til they dropped the velocity to 950fps. The MP10 (10mm MP5) that the FBI ordered used hot ammo, and I have heard the stamped receivers got beat up much faster than the 9mm versions (which were pretty indestructible). So I hope the new M&P 10mm will run.

[Brianjkeene]

I think this is a really big deal, and hope it finds its way to all 2.0 M&P pistols.

Agreed. Excited to see a new trigger shoe but still nervous that it looks different than the shield plus. I’d take that Shield plus trigger over just about any factory striker trigger on the market - just so shootable while not being overly light or short.

[GJM]

Agreed. Excited to see a new trigger shoe but still nervous that it looks different than the shield plus. I’d take that Shield plus trigger over just about any factory striker trigger on the market - just so shootable while not being overly light or short.

Hmmm, Apex just released a poly FSS trigger, wonder if they are making this for S&W?

[HCM]

The ammo we once issued, 155gr at @1250fps was notorious for beating guns apart. I was on my third locking block pin on my Gen 3 Glock 22…. Beretta had to redesign their locking block and slide into the Brigadier and the A1 models, as the original 96 just could not take the pressure. And the original m&p .40 had issues with sear bounce under recoil that would leave you with a dead trigger.

Now, all these issues arouse from using really hot .40 ammo. Agencies like the FBI who went softer, like 165gr at 950fps had a lot fewer problems. But they “cut the balls off their rounds” as an old salty armorer instructor mentioned.

So in most .40cal guns, the ammo you select has a great effect on the longevity and reliability of the pistol.

Now, Glock had increased the slide mass on the new Gen 5 22 and 23, so that should remedy the issue. The M&P enhanced the strength of the sear spring, and solved the issue years back. Beretta designed the storm and APX to deal with .40 since their 96 series had issues. Now that the .40 is basically dead in most LE circles, the kinks are finally worked out in most of the guns.


As to 10mm, many guns like the original Glock 22 and Delta Elite did NOT like full power 10mm, and the guns quickly beat themselves apart. The 1076 issued to the FBI also had a lot of issues with full power ammo, and the agents scores on qual dropped significantly u til they dropped the velocity to 950fps. The MP10 (10mm MP5) that the FBI ordered used hot ammo, and I have heard the stamped receivers got beat up much faster than the 9mm versions (which were pretty indestructible). So I hope the new M&P 10mm will run.

The G20 and DE are set up for the 10mm most people shoot. If you want to run full power loads you need to re spring them. There is no free lunch. What other 10mm pistol runs reliably with both standard and "full power" ammo ?

The 1076 had issues period and it largely predated the 10mm MP5's. Nor is the 10mm MP5 load particularly hot, it just gets more juice out of a longer barrel.

The HK USP/USPC and the SIG 226/229 have held up to .40 even the stupid hot ammo we were previously issued.

As for Bears, the only Bears in our area :

80037

Cattle and horses might be a more realistic concern.

[HCM]

I didn’t know the G20’s failed. Was it just from the barrel and lack of case support or something else?

The G20 is sprung from the factory for "standard" 10mm which rounds 1200-ish fps. They need to be re-sprung to run with hotter ammo.

A G20 with a 10mm to 40sw conversion barrel is basically a "run forever" gun.

[HCM]

This is awesome -- new trigger and optics ready!

Given my local PD's results with .40 cal CORE mounts I'm not optimistic about how the CORE will hold up on a 10mm.

[GJM]

Given my local PD's results with .40 cal CORE mounts I'm not optimistic about how the CORE will hold up on a 10mm.

What part is failing on the CORE .40's?

[GJM]

I only saw CORE models, is there a non CORE model that could be direct milled for an Acro?

[HCM]

What part is failing on the CORE .40's?

Optics coming off due to screw/mount failures. No further details. They are authorizing milled guns as an alternative.

Ammo is a 165 grain at 950-1000 fps so not crazy hot.

[GJM]

Optics coming off due to screw/mount failures. No further details. They are authorizing milled guns as an alternative.

Ammo is a 165 grain at 950-1000 fps so not crazy hot.

I wonder if they are using Chip Wiz plates in lieu of the factory plastic plates? I have shot tens of thousands of rounds in CORE pistols over the last 15 months and had one sheared screw but no other CORE issues other than a Chip Wiz 509T installation that took a while to get right. My match load is Federal 150 Syntech that is 138 PF, so not a powder puff load.

[HCM]

I wonder if they are using Chip Wiz plates in lieu of the factory plastic plates? I have shot tens of thousands of rounds in CORE pistols over the last 15 months and had one sheared screw but no other CORE issues other than a Chip Wiz 509T installation that took a while to get right. My match load is Federal 150 Syntech that is 138 PF, so not a powder puff load.

I believe they are.

[jellydonut]

I'm glad there's another 10mm choice available, but I'll still wait for the gen 5 20.

[BobM]

I see that 10mm brass is out of stock at Midway. I’m interested in this new 10mm for some reason but wondering what it could do for me as opposed to Underwood ammunition in the M&P40s I already own, or an M&P45 that could use my existing stock of 45 practice ammunition, plus Underwood or other high performance 45 +P ammo.

[MK11]

The embargo must be over--two models, a 4.6 inch full size and a 4.0 compact, both based on the .45 frame. Core mounting with suppressor height sights.



https://youtu.be/GxdP7z_LW2o

[Brianjkeene]

Have to see once I get to shoot one but, per the video, the new trigger doesn’t look to be nearly as good as the Shield Plus trigger.

[ralph]

Anyone have a ballpark figure on what these cost? I reload, so all I’d need to do is round up components.. A tall enough order as things stand now, however, I do have a decent stash of primers and powder, so, that’s half the battle. If these are reliable, I could see carrying one..

[BobM]

Anyone have a ballpark figure on what these cost? I reload, so all I’d need to do is round up components.. A tall enough order as things stand now, however, I do have a decent stash of primers and powder, so, that’s half the battle. If these are reliable, I could see carrying one..

MSRP is about $650. Sportsman’s Outdoor Superstore is taking pre orders starting at $609 per an email I got within the last hour

[Greg Bell]

I wonder if some Std Height HD sights would work ok? I would probably prefer the compact model with HDs.

[Navin Johnson]

The embargo must be over--two models, a 4.6 inch full size and a 4.0 compact, both based on the .45 frame. Core mounting with suppressor height sights.



https://youtu.be/GxdP7z_LW2o

So.....if I have a big enough mag (capacity) for 22 LR it equals a 375 H&H.....awesome.

[backtrail540]

https://youtu.be/laXHzICDoFI

[Ethang]

I was able to shoot one last week, only 20 rounds because time and ammo was limited. First impressions are it is very solid. Trigger is different but good, very accurate and controllable but I was using factory ammo so it was not full power 10mm loads. I have an order in for one, but weather is changing here so not planning to spend much free time on the range.

[HeavyDuty]

The shorter barrel one with MS would make a great woods photography pistol…

[Suvorov]

https://youtu.be/laXHzICDoFI

If any woman can sell me a pistol I don’t need, it’s Julie!

[GJM]

If any woman can sell me a pistol I don’t need, it’s Julie!

Her reviews are very polished, and very prepared, with almost every word spoken on target.

[Bergeron]

From a sales perspective, Julie is dreamy.

I want to try one of these guns out.:)

[Suvorov]

Her reviews are very polished, and very prepared, with almost every word spoken on target.

She said something? I was just watching her smile ;)

Middle aged man fantasy aside, I took my 1006 out a couple days ago to verify the zero after having its tritium lamps replaced. It was a joy to shoot, so smooth and it’s heft tamed the 175 gr Silvertips running through it, and I was ringing steel at 100yds.

I really don’t NEED another 10mm……….

[JAH 3rd]

I don't need anything, but boy oh boy, my wants never go away. If I get a firearm on my mind, eventually I will buy it. It's just a matter of when. My latest acquisition is my Beretta PX4 Storm compact in 9mm. The various threads I read here was like throwing gasoline on a fire. It smolders, then boom. My FFL calls and says your PX4 is here. I've got 200 trouble free rounds through it. Ordered 3 more magazines. Now looking for a holster. Geez.

[mmc45414]

I really don’t NEED another 10mm……….
I don't need ONE, but it keeps getting more difficult...
Optics ready, fits holsters I have, someone (Hello Apex?...) is bound to make a forty barrel, I have several thousand forty loaded rounds in a ammo can. The only possible reason I could cling to for holding off would be if I could get a 5" to hunt deer here, and I haven't been hunting much, soooo...

[GJM]

I used to say that guys like to talk .45, shoot a 9 and carry a .38, but we may have to revise that!

[LockedBreech]

As my signature has attested for a couple years, I’m a huge fan of the M2.0 series. I have five and they’ve done stellar service in 9 and .45 the last couple years.

I don’t need a 10mm, necessarily, but I do live in the mountain west and hike a decent bit, so I do have a use case. So I’m definitely going to watch and see how the beta testing goes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HeavyDuty]

Oddly enough, this has me wondering about a G29SF for a woods gun…

[Suvorov]

I don't need ONE, but it keeps getting more difficult...
Optics ready, fits holsters I have, someone (Hello Apex?...) is bound to make a forty barrel, I have several thousand forty loaded rounds in a ammo can. The only possible reason I could cling to for holding off would be if I could get a 5" to hunt deer here, and I haven't been hunting much, soooo...

Agreed. This gun has moved up to one of my first purchases upon my escape from Kalifornia. I really like my M&P 45 Gen 1 so I have no doubt I’ll really like this pistol.

I still don’t need it though…….

[GJM]

Oddly enough, this has me wondering about a G29SF for a woods gun…

I would take a G5 23 MOS over a G29 all day, any day.

[mmc45414]

I really like my M&P 45 Gen 1
Me too. Also, with the inevitable (understandable) comparison to the Glock 10mm offerings I might point out that one of the things I like about the M&P 45 (10+1) is that it is only a marginally longer grip than the full size 9mm/40 pistol. It fits in the same holsters (I would buy OWB holsters 4.5"), and is pretty easily concealable. I will admit that I am not as aware of all the specifics of the Glock SF enhancements, but the M&P 10mm is 15+1. That matches the M&P 40, and that is the same external size as the 17+1 M&P 9mm, and that is about the same width as a 1911 with regular grips. So this could be a pretty small 15+1 10mm pistol.

[HeavyDuty]

I would take a G5 23 MOS over a G29 all day, any day.

Despite the cartridge difference?

[mmc45414]

Despite the cartridge difference?
You probably give it back with the short barrel.

[GJM]

Despite the cartridge difference?

Leaving aside that the 23 has a MOS option, a more shootable grip and slightly more barrel in a similar size package, specifically because of the caliber. For JHP defensive loads, there are more quality 40 loads than 10mm, and with penetrators, I believe the .40 ballistics are squarely in the reliability envelope and the 10 loads are not.

[Corse]

I stumbled across a 4” model at a LGS and I couldn’t resist. I grabbed an M&P 45 mag when I got it home and it fit perfect.

[Brianjkeene]

I stumbled across a 4” model at a LGS and I couldn’t resist. I grabbed an M&P 45 mag when I got it home and it fit perfect.

How’s the trigger

[Corse]

How’s the trigger

I would say it’s very comparable to a VP9 trigger.

It is probably a little heavier and there is a little more grit in the take up. It has a very defined wall for the second stage with a little creep if you look for it. My Apex’d a 45 1.0 is a little smoother.

It seems like it will be a very usable trigger that at this time i would see no reason to upgrade.

[richiecotite]

I stumbled across a 4” model at a LGS and I couldn’t resist. I grabbed an M&P 45 mag when I got it home and it fit perfect.

Does 10mm feed from the 45 mag? I have a small pile of 1.0 45 mags, and I’m looking to downsize pistols. I’m thinking the 10mm would take a pretty good .40 gun in a slightly larger frame would be the “ultimate” 40 gun that could shoot some 10mm, sort of like folks using 10mm Glock guns with .40 conversion barrels.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Corse]

Does 10mm feed from the 45 mag? I have a small pile of 1.0 45 mags, and I’m looking to downsize pistols. I’m thinking the 10mm would take a pretty good .40 gun in a slightly larger frame would be the “ultimate” 40 gun that could shoot some 10mm, sort of like folks using 10mm Glock guns with .40 conversion barrels.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I hope to get it out today for a little bit and plan on testing some 45 mags. The feed lips are further apart on the 45, so they aren’t the same mag with a different follower. The round sits a little higher, but will feed in manual cycling.

I visually checked chamber support, it appears to be better than my Jarvis G20 barrel and a lot better than the stock G20.

[Corse]

I got a chance to shoot about 75 rds through it today.

Good:
- Accuracy was excellent with a red dot and I did ok with the iron sights which were a little high at 25 yrds. It was comparable to my M&P 45.
- I shot a variety of ammo and no pregnant belly
- Trigger worked well.
- 45 mags worked ok (follower doesn’t activate the slide stop very positively)

Bad:
- 509t lasted less than 2 mags of heavier loads before the screws sheared and the plastic core plate cracked. Now I have to find a way to get the screws out.
- a couple FTF with 200 gr HST and some double tap hard cast.
- recoil is snappy with the heavy stuff.

[GJM]

I got a chance to shoot about 75 rds through it today.

Good:
- Accuracy was excellent with a red dot and I did ok with the iron sights which were a little high at 25 yrds. It was comparable to my M&P 45.
- I shot a variety of ammo and no pregnant belly
- Trigger worked well.
- 45 mags worked ok (follower doesn’t activate the slide stop very positively)

Bad:
- 509t lasted less than 2 mags of heavier loads before the screws sheared and the plastic core plate cracked. Now I have to find a way to get the screws out.
- a couple FTF with 200 gr HST and some double tap hard cast.
- recoil is snappy with the heavy stuff.

Thanks for your report. Many of us have had two major concerns -- will the CORE system hold up to 10mm recoil, and will this pistol feed heavy loads. Your results are concerning on both!

[Corse]

Thanks for your report. Many of us have had two major concerns -- will the CORE system hold up to 10mm recoil, and will this pistol feed heavy loads. Your results are concerning on both!

I would definitely use an aluminum plate. The included plate for the delta point pro is the only one that is aluminum. I was hoping the HST would work better. I might try some more later. Hotter 180 FMJ had no issues.

[GJM]

I got to handle a new 10, the longer barrel length one with a manual safety, at a shop in Bozeman yesterday. They have sold five, which is not surprising, as Montana along with Alaska, are very 10mm oriented places. Of the five, they sold four long barrel and one of the shorter barrel ones, which again is not surprising as most people believe longer barrel handguns are more powerful, and these are field use pistols.

I think Smith made a mistake by not offering a traditional sight model. First, most people will run these with iron sights in the field, and two, I have concerns about the CORE system holding up to 10mm. I would much rather direct mill a slide for an Acro.

Apparently someone with knowledge from Sig said there will be a 10mm 320 announced soon.

[JAH 3rd]

Seems pistol optics are on the front burner as evidenced by firearms manufacturers making them OEM and outside companies offering this service. I am not a fan of the tall sights on the optic mounted pistols, but I understand why they are there.......functional but ugly. Perhaps in an effort to bring the price down, Smith will offer non-optic pistols to the shooting public. Who knew they would bring out a 10mm M&P in the first place?

[GJM]

I was perusing some YT vids on the M&P 10, since I saw some chatter about reliability issues with heavy ammo. This reviewer was having issues with 200 grain PMC ball, then he got hit in the head by what he thought was a piece of brass. Turns out it was his optic that bonked him -- good thing he had a warm winter hat on! You can't make this stuff up.

[Lester Polfus]

I was perusing some YT vids on the M&P 10, since I saw some chatter about reliability issues with heavy ammo.

How 'bout that? It's almost like if you take a gun built to be a .45 and put 10mm holes in it instead, it won't run right.

10mm Sig 320: It'll Be Different This Time™?

[GJM]

How 'bout that? It's almost like if you take a gun built to be a .45 and put 10mm holes in it instead, it won't run right.

10mm Sig 320: It'll Be Different This Time™?

I agree, that it is difficult to build a 10mm service pistol that functions with the wide range of 10mm ammo, and especially with higher PF heavy loads. Hopefully Sig gets this, and develops an upper that does better than some other pistols in this caliber. I don't see much magic in the lower or FCU, but the magazines and slide/barrel/RSA need to be thought out. It would be cool if they got with Wilson and developed a 320 specific 10mm Lehigh load that functioned and penetrated.

[Spartan1980]

I was perusing some YT vids on the M&P 10, since I saw some chatter about reliability issues with heavy ammo. This reviewer was having issues with 200 grain PMC ball, then he got hit in the head by what he thought was a piece of brass. Turns out it was his optic that bonked him -- good thing he had a warm winter hat on! You can't make this stuff up.

Not surprising. Did you see anything to pinpoint what the problem might be? My M&P 40 runs like the Energizer bunny until I drop the factory S&W .357 Sig barrel in it. Then it'll run good for around 3 to 4 mags then start choking. The extractor isn't strong enough to extract .357 Sig unless the chamber is nice and clean. Unless they changed extractor geometry/dimensions/tension or some combination thereof I could totally see see problems. It just doesn't care if I clean it at all with the .40 barrel in it but with the higher pressure of the Sig it sure does and .357 Sig is just 10mm brass, shorter and bottlenecked. If they have beefed up the extractor I'm wondering if it'll fit my .40 or if one of the new springs might fix it.

[Frank500]

My five inch 40 m and p runs a 200 cast at a bit over a thousand. I have several five gallon buckets of brass. The gun has never malfunctioned after five thousand rounds. Why do I need a centimeter? I do have a 10 mm 1911 that I’m working to get it reliable. The m and p goes on winter hikes because of wolves. If a grizzly is awake and wandering the 40 will work just fine

[Patrick Taylor]

My five inch 40 m and p runs a 200 cast at a bit over a thousand.

I thought I was the only one running 200s in a 5 inch MP 40. I carry Underwood 200gr 40s and load 200 gr cast for practice.

I was planning on a 10mm but from what I have seen so far I will be sticking to the 40s.

[Lester Polfus]

My five inch 40 m and p runs a 200 cast at a bit over a thousand. I have several five gallon buckets of brass. The gun has never malfunctioned after five thousand rounds. Why do I need a centimeter? I do have a 10 mm 1911 that I’m working to get it reliable. The m and p goes on winter hikes because of wolves. If a grizzly is awake and wandering the 40 will work just fine


I thought I was the only one running 200s in a 5 inch MP 40. I carry Underwood 200gr 40s and load 200 gr cast for practice.

I was planning on a 10mm but from what I have seen so far I will be sticking to the 40s.

I went through three Glock 20s and thousands of rounds of ammo. Every time I would try to push a 200 grain bullet over about 1050 fps, I would start to see failures. It wasn’t huge, about a 2% to 3% failure to feed but it was toomuch.

[Corse]

I was perusing some YT vids on the M&P 10, since I saw some chatter about reliability issues with heavy ammo. This reviewer was having issues with 200 grain PMC ball, then he got hit in the head by what he thought was a piece of brass. Turns out it was his optic that bonked him -- good thing he had a warm winter hat on! You can't make this stuff up.

That is basically what happened to the optic when I was shooting mine.

There were definitely no issues with extraction with any ammo used. I had a couple FTF with 200gr HST and DT 200gr flat point. All the other ammo I had ran great, including 200gr gold dots.

[Lester Polfus]

That is basically what happened to the optic when I was shooting mine.

There were definitely no issues with extraction with any ammo used. I had a couple FTF with 200gr HST and DT 200gr flat point. All the other ammo I had ran great, including 200gr gold dots.

Hey man, would you be able to give us some numbers, like "X number of HST fired with Y number of stoppages?"

[LittleLebowski]

I was perusing some YT vids on the M&P 10, since I saw some chatter about reliability issues with heavy ammo. This reviewer was having issues with 200 grain PMC ball, then he got hit in the head by what he thought was a piece of brass. Turns out it was his optic that bonked him -- good thing he had a warm winter hat on! You can't make this stuff up.

Link?!

[pastaslinger]

I went through three Glock 20s and thousands of rounds of ammo. Every time I would try to push a 200 grain bullet over about 1050 fps, I would start to see failures. It wasn’t huge, about a 2% to 3% failure to feed but it was toomuch.

What generation and were they factory setups or modded?

[GJM]

Link?!


https://youtu.be/iugf76rPm3c

[Lester Polfus]

What generation and were they factory setups or modded?

Gen 2, Gen 3, and Gen 4. All with various combinations of aftermarket recoil springs and magazine springs.

The unreliability really wasn't terribly noticeable until I shot 1K rounds of heavier, wide meplat ammo and realized I'd had 15 or so failures to feed, which is really pretty big compared to a 9mm Glock. Where it would really go to shit is with any kind of compromised grip. Weak hand only shooting was an invitation to a feedway stoppage every other mag or so.

At which point lots of people point out "you're just limp wristing" to which I retort "lots of emergencies involve a less than optimal grip."

I think many folks practice with cheap 10mm ball, which is usually loaded to about .40 S&W power levels, then buy a box or two of Buffalo Bore WFN hot loads. Since they are about $2 a pop, they tend to just shoot a handful, or even none, and load them up and carry them around.

I soured of the whole concept because it was a constant project, and finally just sold out of 10mm and embraced my grumpy old man with a .357 persona.

[Lester Polfus]

https://youtu.be/iugf76rPm3c

Same shit. Different platform. I think this is going to be the nature of 10mm autoloaders until somebody puts on a sheet of paper a 10mm round with a 200 grain WFN bullet loaded to 1200 fps and designs a gun around it.

[Corse]

Hey man, would you be able to give us some numbers, like "X number of HST fired with Y number of stoppages?"

Unfortunately nothing that scientific, I don’t have that much of the HST. It had a malfunction every mag though, so I decided not to waste anymore.

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

Gen 2, Gen 3, and Gen 4. All with various combinations of aftermarket recoil springs and magazine springs.

The unreliability really wasn't terribly noticeable until I shot 1K rounds of heavier, wide meplat ammo and realized I'd had 15 or so failures to feed, which is really pretty big compared to a 9mm Glock. Where it would really go to shit is with any kind of compromised grip. Weak hand only shooting was an invitation to a feedway stoppage every other mag or so.

At which point lots of people point out "you're just limp wristing" to which I retort "lots of emergencies involve a less than optimal grip."

I think many folks practice with cheap 10mm ball, which is usually loaded to about .40 S&W power levels, then buy a box or two of Buffalo Bore WFN hot loads. Since they are about $2 a pop, they tend to just shoot a handful, or even none, and load them up and carry them around.

I soured of the whole concept because it was a constant project, and finally just sold out of 10mm and embraced my grumpy old man with a .357 persona.

Have you tried a heavier recoil spring? Reason I ask is if the cheap 10mm works but the heavy and hot stuff doesn't, maybe it's undersprung from factory to be reliable with the watered down stuff....

[Lester Polfus]

Have you tried a heavier recoil spring? Reason I ask is if the cheap 10mm works but the heavy and hot stuff doesn't, maybe it's undersprung from factory to be reliable with the watered down stuff....


Gen 2, Gen 3, and Gen 4. All with various combinations of aftermarket recoil springs and magazine springs.

[El Cid]

I was perusing some YT vids on the M&P 10, since I saw some chatter about reliability issues with heavy ammo. This reviewer was having issues with 200 grain PMC ball, then he got hit in the head by what he thought was a piece of brass. Turns out it was his optic that bonked him -- good thing he had a warm winter hat on! You can't make this stuff up.

lol! And that was my main reasoning for not putting an optic on my G40. Well, and it's not like I live in a place where I can expect to be eaten. A $500 optic would just sit on the gun most of the year. And with the aftermarket RSA, it runs the Trophy Bonded 180gr Federal and the Underwood 140gr EP ammo like a sewing machine. I don't want to mess with something that works. With my luck the optic would throw it out of balance with the universe.

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

Gen 2, Gen 3, and Gen 4. All with various combinations of aftermarket recoil springs and magazine springs.

Not sure how I missed that in the first line, lol thanks. Probably needs more mass in the slide to be reliable then.

[Lester Polfus]

Not sure how I missed that in the first line, lol thanks. Probably needs more mass in the slide to be reliable then.

That's my guess yes. I vacillated between buying a Glock 40 as a woods gun, or just selling the whole kit and kaboodle for a .357.

I really like my GP100.

[AirbusPilot]

??

Better reliability with what ammo?

The G20 runs just fine with standard factory 10mm loads.

If you want to run hotter ammo you need to restoring the gun accordingly.

There aren’t many semi auto pistols which work reliably with Flatnose hard cast lead bullets in stock form.

My Glock 29 and Glock 20 do. No problem at all with Underwood real 10mm ammo, not watered down .40 short & weak ballistics

[Corse]

My Glock 20 is mostly reliable, mostly.

[HCM]

My Glock 29 and Glock 20 do. No problem at all with Underwood real 10mm ammo, not watered down .40 short & weak ballistics

With factory springs or did you re-spring the guns for full power 10mm ?

How many of those full power rounds underwood rounds have you run through them?

[AirbusPilot]

With factory springs or did you re-spring the guns for full power 10mm ?

How many of those full power rounds underwood rounds have you run through them?

Over 2000 rounds each and completely stock guns.

Underwood Xtreme Defender 115gr (Muzzle Energy (ft/lbs) : 738
Muzzle Velocity (fps) : 1,700) is my EDC on my G29 and I use 150gr Xtreme Hunter (Muzzle Energy (ft/lbs) : 676
Muzzle Velocity (fps) : 1,425) and 140gr Xtreme Penetrator (Muzzle Energy (ft/lbs) : 700
Muzzle Velocity (fps) : 1,500) on my G20 woods/hunting gun.

Those are advertised velocities and energy by Underwood, on the G29 obviously I loose about 125 fps and are very accurate for the G20

[Bergeron]

My Glock 29 and Glock 20 do. No problem at all with Underwood real 10mm ammo, not watered down .40 short & weak ballistics

I think it's important to be a bit careful when trying to decide what constitutes "real" 10mm.

Underwood:
155 @ 1500 = 232 PF
220 @ 1200 = 264 PF
180 @ 1300 = 234 PF
200 @ 1250 = 250 PF
100 @ 1825 = 183 PF
180 @ 1250 = 225 PF
165 @ 1400 = 231 PF

Other factory 10mm:
Blazer Aluminum, 200 @ 1050, 210 PF
Hornady Hunter, 135 @ 1315, 182 PF
Winchester Silvertip, 174 @ 1200, 210 PF
S&B JHP, 180 @ 1164, 210 PF
Blazer Brass, 180 @ 1200, 216 PF
Federal HST, 200 @ 1130, 226 PF
Armscorp JHP, 180 @ 1008, 181 PF
Privi Partizan JFP, 170 @ 1115, 190 PF
PMC JFP, 170 @ 1200, 204 PF
Hornady XTP, 180 @ 1275, 230 PF
Magtech FMJ, 180 @ 1230, 221 PF
Magtech JHP, 180 @ 1230, 221 PF
Federal Trophy Bonded, 180 @ 1275, 230 PF
Speer Gold Dot JHP, 200 @ 1100, 220 PF
Barnes TAC-XP JHP, 155 @ 1150, 178 PF
Federal AE JFP, 180 @ 1030, 185 PF
Fiocchi FMJ, 180 @ 1275, 230 PF
Winchester FMJ, 180 @ 1080, 194 PF

I'd personally consider anything over 200 PF to be "full power". I'm not trying to say that there are no "40-spec" loads, only that what I find in local settings over the last few years has trended very much towards the "full power" stuff. The reviews on the <200 PF loads are amusing in the amount of hate that people are giving to the loads.

It's really hard to find a factory load with less than 180 PF, and those loads will still hit pretty hard. I find that 180s @ about 1200 are the most common "on-the-shelf" factory loads in my area.

I've shot 200 - 225 PF loads in bowling pins, where they fit pretty nicely, and in USPSA Single Stack, where they do not. For self-defense against people, I have no problem with .40-spec loading. I get turned off by loads above 225 PF, as I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze.

[AirbusPilot]

I think it's important to be a bit careful when trying to decide what constitutes "real" 10mm.

Underwood:
155 @ 1500 = 232 PF
220 @ 1200 = 264 PF
180 @ 1300 = 234 PF
200 @ 1250 = 250 PF
100 @ 1825 = 183 PF
180 @ 1250 = 225 PF
165 @ 1400 = 231 PF

Other factory 10mm:
Blazer Aluminum, 200 @ 1050, 210 PF
Hornady Hunter, 135 @ 1315, 182 PF
Winchester Silvertip, 174 @ 1200, 210 PF
S&B JHP, 180 @ 1164, 210 PF
Blazer Brass, 180 @ 1200, 216 PF
Federal HST, 200 @ 1130, 226 PF
Armscorp JHP, 180 @ 1008, 181 PF
Privi Partizan JFP, 170 @ 1115, 190 PF
PMC JFP, 170 @ 1200, 204 PF
Hornady XTP, 180 @ 1275, 230 PF
Magtech FMJ, 180 @ 1230, 221 PF
Magtech JHP, 180 @ 1230, 221 PF
Federal Trophy Bonded, 180 @ 1275, 230 PF
Speer Gold Dot JHP, 200 @ 1100, 220 PF
Barnes TAC-XP JHP, 155 @ 1150, 178 PF
Federal AE JFP, 180 @ 1030, 185 PF
Fiocchi FMJ, 180 @ 1275, 230 PF
Winchester FMJ, 180 @ 1080, 194 PF

I'd personally consider anything over 200 PF to be "full power". I'm not trying to say that there are no "40-spec" loads, only that what I find in local settings over the last few years has trended very much towards the "full power" stuff. The reviews on the <200 PF loads are amusing in the amount of hate that people are giving to the loads.

It's really hard to find a factory load with less than 180 PF, and those loads will still hit pretty hard. I find that 180s @ about 1200 are the most common "on-the-shelf" factory loads in my area.

I've shot 200 - 225 PF loads in bowling pins, where they fit pretty nicely, and in USPSA Single Stack, where they do not. For self-defense against people, I have no problem with .40-spec loading. I get turned off by loads above 225 PF, as I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze.

PF is a flawed formula, favors heavy bullet weights which have applications mostly for hunting and 4 legged predator defense but not for EDC self defense. Modern bullet design has changed the game and I choose my ammo based on what kind of performance I have seen on the field while hunting. A 10mm light weight bullet traveling at high speed has devastation effects and it's better when you "squeeze" as you refer to it. The recoil of the Xtreme Defender 110gr 10mm is very manageable, much more so then for example the 200gr HST; the XD it is completely barrier blind, does not over penetrate and with it's light weight reduces the gun's total loaded weight compared to the HST. I have used the HST which on your post is rated at 226 PF and its performance is marginal because the expansion is not consistent in 10mm. Another example of the flawed PF numbers in your post, S&B JHP which I have tried and is junk is rated as a full load at 216 PF above something like Hornady Hunter at 182 PF which performs very well against hogs and deer.

I respect you point of view but I will stay with what I see during hunting.

If you have no problem with .40 S&W specs for self defense why carry a big gun, get a G27, 22 or 23 which are a lot easier to carry.

BTW you can get Underwood and other brands that would rate higher than 200 PF on the .40 S&W, but they still don't come close to the performance of a proper 10mm. I do own a G23

[Navin Johnson]

Over 2000 rounds each and completely stock guns.

Underwood Xtreme Defender 115gr (Muzzle Energy (ft/lbs) : 738
Muzzle Velocity (fps) : 1,700) is my EDC on my G29 and I use 150gr Xtreme Hunter (Muzzle Energy (ft/lbs) : 676
Muzzle Velocity (fps) : 1,425) and 140gr Xtreme Penetrator (Muzzle Energy (ft/lbs) : 700
Muzzle Velocity (fps) : 1,500) on my G20 woods/hunting gun.

Those are advertised velocities and energy by Underwood, on the G29 obviously I loose about 125 fps and are very accurate for the G20


$6000-$6500 of ammo.

Serious scratch....

[AirbusPilot]

$6000-$6500 of ammo.

Serious scratch....

Yes Navin, they came out 5 to 6 years ago and I have been shooting nothing but underwood including their range ammo for my 10mm Glocks. Your quote is for today's price, they used to be much cheaper but yes I do spend more than $1000/year buying ammo which I think is not uncommon. I did purchase quite a bit more some years to have as reserve, I'm happy I did.

[Suvorov]

Fondled the optics ready pistol at the store today. I really liked it and at $600 it is really tempting. Does anyone know if .40 cal conversion barrels are available or will a standard .40 barrel drop in?

If so this pistol would solve both my desire for a lighter 10mm than my 1006 and my desire for a .40 cal pistol.

[crosseyedshooter]

Fondled the optics ready pistol at the store today. I really liked it and at $600 it is really tempting. Does anyone know if .40 cal conversion barrels are available or will a standard .40 barrel drop in?

If so this pistol would solve both my desire for a lighter 10mm than my 1006 and my desire for a .40 cal pistol.

I thought the 10mm can shoot .40 even if not officially acknowledged by S&W.

What I’d like to know is if the M&P 10mm can be easily converted to .45.

[Squib308]

I thought the 10mm can shoot .40 even if not officially acknowledged by S&W.

What I’d like to know is if the M&P 10mm can be easily converted to .45.

The breech face on a 45 is larger than a 10mm. I would not expect the M&P 10mm to ever reliably accommodate a 45 auto. S&W makes a 45 auto version for this cartridge.

Shooting .40 S&W from a 10mm is something I never understood. The cartridge will no longer headspace correctly. The extractor will determine the head spacing as the .40 is 3mm shorter than a 10 mm. No thanks.

[crosseyedshooter]

The breech face on a 45 is larger than a 10mm. I would not expect the M&P 10mm to ever reliably accommodate a 45 auto. S&W makes a 45 auto version for this cartridge.

I’m more wondering if the whole top end will swap onto a .45 frame and vice versa. Sort of like how the 9mm and .40 frames are interchangeable.

[Suvorov]

Well, I went and bought one! Didn’t need the thing but I wanted one since they were announced and I finally live in a state where I am deemed worthy to purchase one. And as a bonus, it is the first time in a long long time I went home with a gun the same day I purchased it!!!

I ended up with the 4.6 inch barrel with thumb safety. With the veterans discount it came out to about $580 before tax which made the decision a lot easier!

Now the question is what route to go with sights? The gun is optics ready and thus has suppressor height sights for a co-witness when using the optic. I don’t think I’m ready to go down this route and given this pistol’s primary mission as a ‘backwoods and camping gun’ it wouldn’t be the gun I would want to put an optic on. But due to it’s primary roll - I do want night sights.

It fits my current M&P45 ALS holster fairly snugly but fits. Most of the time backwoods it will spend in my Hill People chest rig.

Is it worth keeping the tall sights or are low profile sights such as the Trijicon HDs the better option?

ETA - While trying to convince myself I needed this pistol I watched every video on YT I could find. In the two cases where the optics separated from the slide I saw, both were failures of the mounting screws and at least one if not both were more budget minded optics. In my mind that seems to be more of an optic manufacturer issue than a problem on S&Ws front. Then again as I do not plan on running an optic it was less concerning to me.

[crosseyedshooter]

Is it worth keeping the tall sights or are low profile sights such as the Trijicon HDs the better option?

The regular M&P sights won’t fit properly on the CORE slides because the rear sight cut is further back. If you put Trijicon HD on the CORE slide, the rear sight may not fit and, if it does, it’ll stick out the back about half an inch.

The only nightsights I know that fit the CORE are the ones that come on S&W Law Enforcement SKUs. S&W has tall and low sights for the CORE slides that I think are manufactured by Truglo.

[Suvorov]

The regular M&P sights won’t fit properly on the CORE slides because the rear sight cut is further back. If you put Trijicon HD on the CORE slide, the rear sight may not fit and, if it does, it’ll stick out the back about half an inch.

The only nightsights I know that fit the CORE are the ones that come on S&W Law Enforcement SKUs. S&W has tall and low sights for the CORE slides that I think are manufactured by Truglo.

THANK YOU!!!

That is really good to know.

[LockedBreech]

The regular M&P sights won’t fit properly on the CORE slides because the rear sight cut is further back. If you put Trijicon HD on the CORE slide, the rear sight may not fit and, if it does, it’ll stick out the back about half an inch.

The only nightsights I know that fit the CORE are the ones that come on S&W Law Enforcement SKUs. S&W has tall and low sights for the CORE slides that I think are manufactured by Truglo.

This is helpful information, thank you. Thanks to a post like this I was able to choose a night sight set (Trijicon Bright & Tough) for my Glock 22 Gen 5 that did not overhang the rear, which I dislike a lot. So thanks for contributing, these little nuggets can save people time and money.

[Suvorov]

This is helpful information, thank you. Thanks to a post like this I was able to choose a night sight set (Trijicon Bright & Tough) for my Glock 22 Gen 5 that did not overhang the rear, which I dislike a lot. So thanks for contributing, these little nuggets can save people time and money.

Just ordered a set of Trijicons from Amazon. The description box was all sorts of wrong but the SKU was correct and the Q and A said this was for the M&P CORE.

The SKU from Trijicon’s website is: SKU: SA240-C-601011

https://www.trijicon.com/products/details/sa240-c-601011

[Tannhauser]

Well, I went and bought one! Didn’t need the thing but I wanted one since they were announced and I finally live in a state where I am deemed worthy to purchase one. And as a bonus, it is the first time in a long long time I went home with a gun the same day I purchased it!!!

I ended up with the 4.6 inch barrel with thumb safety. With the veterans discount it came out to about $580 before tax which made the decision a lot easier!

Now the question is what route to go with sights? The gun is optics ready and thus has suppressor height sights for a co-witness when using the optic. I don’t think I’m ready to go down this route and given this pistol’s primary mission as a ‘backwoods and camping gun’ it wouldn’t be the gun I would want to put an optic on. But due to it’s primary roll - I do want night sights.

It fits my current M&P45 ALS holster fairly snugly but fits. Most of the time backwoods it will spend in my Hill People chest rig.

Is it worth keeping the tall sights or are low profile sights such as the Trijicon HDs the better option?

ETA - While trying to convince myself I needed this pistol I watched every video on YT I could find. In the two cases where the optics separated from the slide I saw, both were failures of the mounting screws and at least one if not both were more budget minded optics. In my mind that seems to be more of an optic manufacturer issue than a problem on S&Ws front. Then again as I do not plan on running an optic it was less concerning to me.

I've seen those videos. In my opinion, those failures are operator error and not an issue with the optic, the plate, the S&W design, etc.

I have a Holosun 407C on my M&P 10mm 4.6" using the included M&P polymer plates. I have several hundred rounds through the set up at this point, most of which is either Underwood 200gr hardcast or my own 180 gr handloads with heavy charges of Blue Dot.

I've had zero issues with the optic.

The entire assembly of an optic, plate tied to a reciprocating slide absolutely depends on those tiny fasteners maintaining full preload to compress the joint together. This is true of any bolted joint that relies on friction to resist lateral forces. In other words, the compression in the joint resists the lateral motion and not the tiny cross section of the threaded fasteners. Fasteners should only see load in compression.

When I installed my optic I carefully degreased every surface with 90% IPA. Not just the fasteners and the threaded holes, but also the plate and the bottom of the optic. I used Vibratite on the fasteners and torqued them to 15 in-lbs, per Holosun specs. Then I added witness marks to each fastener with a silver Sharpie.

I think when optics going flying off the slide what happened was the person installing it didn't due any surface prep by degreasing, slapped it together, installed fastener trusting that factory blue coating (or no coating) to be "good enough" thread locker and then ignored using a torque wrench. Finally, I doubt any witness marks were used.

So under recoil the fasteners backed out slightly, releasing the compression in the joint and forcing the tiny minor diameter of the fasteners to reapeatedly resist a shock loading from the slide. The fasteners sheared through and launched the optic.

[Virtuosity Student]

Bumping this thread. To anyone who purchased these, do you still own them? If so, how are they running? What mods have you made (if any) to RSA and or magazine springs?

I have the 4” model and have just over 150ish rounds of commercial 10mm (read: lower power) and no issues so far. However I have seen many videos of failures to feed with heavier stuff as well as some sporadic FTE/mag issues.

[Suvorov]

Bumping this thread. To anyone who purchased these, do you still own them? If so, how are they running? What mods have you made (if any) to RSA and or magazine springs?

I have the 4” model and have just over 150ish rounds of commercial 10mm (read: lower power) and no issues so far. However I have seen many videos of failures to feed with heavier stuff as well as some sporadic FTE/mag issues.

Still running good with about 500 rounds though it. Only modification is night sights. Been reliable with everything I’ve shot other than “10mm Short” although I have not tried anything hotter/heavier than Hornady 180gr XTP.

[JDB]

I really want to like this gun.

It seems some folks have figured out how to make the Glock 20 work with full on Norma powered factory 10mm (200gr bullet at 1200 fps).

Sounds like that isn't the case with the M&P10.

Since I handload almost everything...has anyone tried backing off the velocity slightly, say a 200 gr bullet at 1100-1150 to see if the M&P10 works acceptably?
There's got to be a happy spot below the Norma/Buffalo Bore levels.

Thanks