Colt mid-length question

[awp_101]

At some point in the past couple of weeks I was digging around here for something and ran across a post from someone saying that after extensive testing, Colt found no significant benefit to the mid-length gas system.

Of course a couple of days ago I ran across someone selling a mid-length Colt upper and now I can’t find the post I remember seeing or remember how long ago it was posted.

I presume they’re making one now because that’s what the market wants?

[OlongJohnson]

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?21349-Midlength-Gas-Systems-(split-from-the-Colt-Midlength-thread)&p=746651&viewfull=1#post746651

[awp_101]

Thanks, that’s pretty interesting! Not what I was looking for, but I can make use of it.

[HCM]

At some point in the past couple of weeks I was digging around here for something and ran across a post from someone saying that after extensive testing, Colt found no significant benefit to the mid-length gas system.

Of course a couple of days ago I ran across someone selling a mid-length Colt upper and now I can’t find the post I remember seeing or remember how long ago it was posted.

I presume they’re making one now because that’s what the market wants?

Colt found no significant benefit where as the .Mil found no significant downside. But Colt had the patent on the M4 configuration- meaning it was in their interest to keep selling carbine gas system guns.

One thing neither account for is mid-lengths general run smoother making multiple shots and transitioning from target to target easier. They are also not accounting for use of suppressors.

The current Block III SOCOM guns are … mid length.

[Lex Luthier]

Colt found no significant benefit where as the .Mil found no significant downside. But Colt had the patent on the M4 configuration- meaning it was in their interest to keep selling carbine gas system guns.

One thing neither account for is mid-lengths general run smoother making multiple shots and transitioning from target to target easier. They are also not accounting for use of suppressors.

The current Block III SOCOM guns are … mid length.

All interesting points. Does the Colt-owned TDP cover mid-length variations, or only M-16/AR-15 and M4 specs?

I also wonder if the decision to start up new production of the 6960 middy was made under older Colt or current CZ ownership.

[HCM]

All interesting points. Does the Colt-owned TDP cover mid-length variations, or only M-16/AR-15 and M4 specs?

I also wonder if the decision to start up new production of the 6960 middy was made under older Colt or current CZ ownership.

AFAIK Colt TDP does not cover midlengths. I'm sure Colt experimented with them but AFAIK Mark Westrom of the current IL based Armalite company was the first to bring one to market.

The 6960 middy pre-dates CZ by at least a year or two. It was a typical Colt "too little, too late" response to market forces.

[Lex Luthier]

AFAIK Colt TDP does not cover midlengths. I'm sure Colt experimented with them but AFAIK Mark Westrom of the current IL based Armalite company was the first to bring one to market.

The 6960 middy pre-dates CZ by at least a year or two. It was a typical Colt "too little, too late" response to market forces.

Thanks for the clarification on the origin.
I meant that the circa-2017 6960 became unobtainable as a complete rifle for a couple of years (only uppers available through Brownells), and then in April 2021 they show up again, as a CR series rifle.
Which management team decided *that* was my question.

[HCM]

Thanks for the clarification on the origin.
I meant that the circa-2017 6960 became unobtainable as a complete rifle for a couple of years (only uppers available through Brownells), and then in April 2021 they show up again, as a CR series rifle.
Which management team decided *that* was my question.

What do gun companies exist to make ? (hint- it's not guns)

Who was president in 2017 ? Didn't Colt pause civilian AR sales at that time like they always do when AR prices slump ?

Didn't Brownells wind up selling those uppers at a discount to move them ?

We just experienced record demand for all types of firearms.

Colt is also notorious for building things in batches. So maybe the new guns are "new-old stock" which Colt held till prices went up or maybe they got an institutional contract big enough to make another batch of midlength guns viable.

[OlongJohnson]

AFAIK Colt TDP does not cover midlengths. I'm sure Colt experimented with them but AFAIK Mark Westrom of the current IL based Armalite company was the first to bring one to market.

The 6960 middy pre-dates CZ by at least a year or two. It was a typical Colt "too little, too late" response to market forces.

Armalite has been sold in the past couple years and the new entity is located in AZ:


https://www.armalite.com/

525 E Pinnacle Peak Rd Ste 100
Phoenix, AZ 85024
Sales Visits By Appointment Only

Phone 623-780-1050
salesorders@sacfirearms.com


I only know that because I bought a few LPKs not too long ago. Have been my preferred choice due to the unique bolt catch shown in the photo here:

https://www.armalite.com/SACItem.aspx?Item=15LRPK

It looks like the awesome price at that time might have been blowing out old stock. I was really only in it for the bolt catch, but the whole LPK was only $10 more then, so I bought LPKs and have spring and pin kits. Current bolt catch kit photo shows one that looks like everyone else's part:

https://www.armalite.com/SACItem.aspx?Item=EX6575

Guess I'm glad I did that when I did.

I will say that the service was excellent and it was a pleasure doing business with them.

[HCM]

Armalite has been sold in the past couple years and the new entity is located in AZ:




I only know that because I bought a few LPKs not too long ago. Have been my preferred choice due to the unique bolt catch shown in the photo here:

https://www.armalite.com/SACItem.aspx?Item=15LRPK

It looks like the awesome price at that time might have been blowing out old stock. I was really only in it for the bolt catch, but the whole LPK was only $10 more then, so I bought LPKs and have spring and pin kits. Current bolt catch kit photo shows one that looks like everyone else's part:

https://www.armalite.com/SACItem.aspx?Item=EX6575

Guess I'm glad I did that when I did.

I will say that the service was excellent and it was a pleasure doing business with them.

Given Mark Westrom's age I'm not surprised they were sold or that they finally moved out of anti-gun IL.

I've had a pair of ban era Armalite rifles since the 1990s. Their exceptional accuracy reflects Col. Westrom's background as a high power rifle competitor.

[jh9]

Didn't Brownells wind up selling those uppers at a discount to move them ?


Discounted price (for mine, anyway) in 2018 was $599. Current price is $724. I think I've seen them as high as $799.

[M2CattleCo]

The URGi program specified commercial off the shelf parts. It uses a standard Daniel Defense 14.5” mid-length barrel. Which are excellent, one of the very best barrels you can buy.

There’s mid-lengths, and there’s mid-lengths. I’ve seen 16” mids ported from .071”-.082”. Once the port is past about .073-074” whatever benefit you thought a mid-length had is long gone.

I would prefer a proper 5.56 chamber and .0625” gas port on a carbine over how most mids are built these days.

[awp_101]

The 6960 middy pre-dates CZ by at least a year or two. It was a typical Colt "too little, too late" response to market forces.



I meant that the circa-2017 6960 became unobtainable as a complete rifle for a couple of years (only uppers available through Brownells), and then in April 2021 they show up again, as a CR series rifle.

That explains why it was something of surprise when I saw that upper listed. I wasn’t going through an AR phase at that time so I wasn’t paying attention when they came out.

[DDTSGM]

I only know that because I bought a few LPKs not too long ago. Have been my preferred choice due to the unique bolt catch shown in the photo here:

https://www.armalite.com/SACItem.aspx?Item=15LRPK

What's the secret of the bolt catch? Is it just the fact that the bottom pad used to lock the bolt to the rear is absent?

Thanks!

[OlongJohnson]

What's the secret of the bolt catch? Is it just the fact that the bottom pad used to lock the bolt to the rear is absent?

Thanks!

The bottom pad is actually more prominent. The outward facing surface is all flush with the upper serrated paddle, and the whole thing is serrated. So there's a little more beef in the part for strength and it's easier to use to manually lock the bolt back than a standard catch. But it's not a big, snaggy paddle like the Geissele Maritime bolt catch. I like it as a mild but unobtrusive upgrade.

[DDTSGM]

Didn't Brownells wind up selling those uppers at a discount to move them ?


Discounted price (for mine, anyway) in 2018 was $599. Current price is $724. I think I've seen them as high as $799.

I paid $499.00 for a CCU upper on 5/13/19. On 12/27/17, I bought a complete M4 lower from them for $199.99 after a $20.00 discount. Thus making my only complete Colt - if you excuse the ToolCraft BCG, and the B5 Bravo stock. All told less than $850.00 in the base rifle.