Beretta 92 stoppage w/o magazine inserted

[Dcowboyscr]

I have a Beretta 92 I bought NIB and have 1,262 rounds through it. 1,230 of that is Sellier & Bellot mostly 124 grain but some 115 grain. Zero stoppages until today. Gun has a 14 lb chrome silicon hammer spring, 14 chrome silicone recoil spring, LTT optimized trigger bar, match sear, trigger from a 92X performance, metal parts kit, and a G conversion kit.

Today I was practicing loading a round from the magazine, removing the magazine, firing the round in the chamber, slide cycles, dry fire on the empty chamber then reload and repeat. I’ve found this very beneficial in eliminating anticipation etc.

Of the 3 magazines (45 rounds) I fired this way I had a stoppage twice. Other than that the pistol has never had a stoppage. I have it lubed pretty heavily with Weapon Shield Grease. In total I fired 163 rounds this range trip. The dry fire practice was after I’d fired 60 rounds normally.

Is this something I should be concerned about?

https://i.postimg.cc/KYptt9Lr/1-B04-A35-E-802-F-433-C-9-F4-F-EC54-D14312-C8.jpg (https://postimg.cc/p989HJsp)

https://i.postimg.cc/YC36C2CP/F020-ABE9-DE58-4-F7-C-B00-D-42-C831617792.jpg (https://postimg.cc/xXXJs2HG)

[WobblyPossum]

If the gun has never malfunctioned with a magazine inserted, the way the gun is designed to operate, then it sounds like it functions fine. I wouldn’t worry about it unless the gun started to malfunction when fired with a magazine inserted. The presence of the magazine aides in proper ejection on many semi-autos. Lots of guns will occasionally have stoppages if fired without a magazine.

[JAH 3rd]

The only malfunction I’ve had in my M9 was when a Golden Saber .380 got mixed in with some 9mm GS. It fired but the casing ejected per your picture. Purely my fault. Perhaps you had an underpowered round. And magazines do help with ejection in some pistols. Or maybe more accurately, ejection characteristics may change with a magazine removed. The 1911 comes to mind here with that ejection test with no magazine installed. This test is for extractor function with that platform. Maybe this is a one in a million, but that one is one too many in a defensive firearm. Make sure the extractor hook is clean and fire on. Those single only hiccups can be hard to diagnose. Keep shooting and see if it happens again. Disclaimer: I haven’t had my morning coffee yet!!

[JonInWA]

Your situation isrobably of no real actual operational concern, but I've found that a good annual protocol is to remove the extractor and clean the extractor and it's recess; there's an amazing amount of GSR that can get caked up in their and on the extractor itself, and that might be providing your issue when the magazine is removed. After reassembling, remember to lightly strake the extractor pin at the top of the slide to prevent the pin from wandering out in use.

Best, Jon

[GlockenSpiel]

Most semi auto pistols are designed and work more reliably with a magazine inserted. This topic comes up every couple of years, and it's up to you as to whether the gun not working as reliably when fired with no mag is important. I personally think it doesn't matter, because it's not going to be able to fire another round with no magazine anyway.

[Dcowboyscr]

Your situation isrobably of no real actual operational concern, but I've found that a good annual protocol is to remove the extractor and clean the extractor and it's recess; there's an amazing amount of GSR that can get caked up in their and on the extractor itself, and that might be providing your issue when the magazine is removed. After reassembling, remember to lightly strake the extractor pin at the top of the slide to prevent the pin from wandering out in use.

Best, Jon

Is there any benefit to installing a Wilson Combat 150% extra power extractor spring? I have a few of those laying around from when I had a 92X Performance but never used them.

[JonInWA]

Wilson has provided me with both of their chrome silicon extractor springs, so I installed the standard strength one. I've been pretty pleased with it's performance since it's installation, so while I have the increased strength one, I've had no compelling reason to remove the standard strength one and install it. I think you're just fine with the standard strength one. Best, Jon

[Dcowboyscr]

Another Question, I’ve noticed recently while dry firing, holding the trigger back and cycling the slide to check the trigger reset that in the last 200 rounds sometimes the reset i hardly hear the click noise when the trigger resets. It’s still resetting like normal in the same spot every time but sometimes for say 10 pulls it will go barely audible and then it goes back to hearing the very audible click sound. 1,500 rounds through the pistol now. LTT Optimized trigger bar and match sear, match hammer, and 14 lb CS hammer spring. The trigger is super smooth and broken in now. I’d say I have at least another 1,500 dry fires through it at least.

[Trooper224]

Don't be concerned about a single stoppage. They all malfunction eventually, especially if you're using the weapon outside of its design parameters, as you are. If you use the pistol with the magazine inserted and then start having failues to eject, that's cause for concern.

[Suvorov]

I suspect the lack of the magazine is allowing the spent casing to remain in the breach area long enough to create the stovepipe you are showing. I agree with the others here on the point that if this is not happening when you have a magazine inserted, then I would not worry about it. Supposedly the Beretta was designed to facilitate breach loading in the event the magazine was lost so if God forbid you were in a situation where you were down to breach loading single rounds in your defensive handgun, you would still have to lock the slide back and reload, thus clearing your stoppage ;)

The drill you are using sounds like a creative play on the “ball and dummy” drill. I will say from experience that with the Beretta, a spent casing can be used pretty reliably as a dummy allowing you to leave the magazine inserted. Of course YMMV.

[Dcowboyscr]

I suspect the lack of the magazine is allowing the spent casing to remain in the breach area long enough to create the stovepipe you are showing. I agree with the others here on the point that if this is not happening when you have a magazine inserted, then I would not worry about it. Supposedly the Beretta was designed to facilitate breach loading in the event the magazine was lost so if God forbid you were in a situation where you were down to breach loading single rounds in your defensive handgun, you would still have to lock the slide back and reload, thus clearing your stoppage ;)

The drill you are using sounds like a creative play on the “ball and dummy” drill. I will say from experience that with the Beretta, a spent casing can be used pretty reliably as a dummy allowing you to leave the magazine inserted. Of course YMMV.

That’s a good idea, I’ll try the empty shell casing next time.

[medmo]

Maybe extractor or extractor spring? I have a whole lot of trigger time with 92s but I really can’t think of any experience with shooting sans magazine. First thing that comes to mind is testing it by hand cycling. Test/inspect on empty brass with and without a magazine hand cycling the slide. Slow and fast. Can you see a difference?

[Suvorov]

That’s a good idea, I’ll try the empty shell casing next time.

I used spent casings to induce failures on my Sigs and HKs. Since switching over to Beretta I’ve found it rare to get a failure to feed with a spent shell casing unless it really has some deformation (like got stepped on).

Go figure :confused:

[stinx]

I believe having the magazine inserted helps with the extraction/ejection process on some semi-autos

[Suvorov]

That’s a good idea, I’ll try the empty shell casing next time.

Of course a few dummy rounds is the best option for this drill as an empty case can still induce a malfunction.

[HCM]

If the gun has never malfunctioned with a magazine inserted, the way the gun is designed to operate, then it sounds like it functions fine. I wouldn’t worry about it unless the gun started to malfunction when fired with a magazine inserted. The presence of the magazine aides in proper ejection on many semi-autos. Lots of guns will occasionally have stoppages if fired without a magazine.

Agree.

This is why the OP's anticipation drill is normally accomplished by mixing in dummy rounds.

Using empty cases for such drill can create it's own set of issues. Guns are designed to get rid of empty cases not feed them. The length, weight, and shape is "wrong."

Using dummy rounds lets the gun function the way it is designed to function.

[Mark D]

My Glocks won't cycle reliability without a magazine inserted, so I use dummy rounds. But for whatever it's worth, the drill described by the OP is taught by EL as an alternative to Ball and Dummy. When I asked EL why he prefers this one instead of Ball and Dummy, he explained that B&D is inconvenient in a class setting, with folks having to hunt around on the ground for their ejected dummy rounds.

[Dcowboyscr]

I originally saw the drill performed this way watching a video of Adam Painchaud SIG Acandemy instructor.

https://youtu.be/CtKFCyupJ_0

[willie]

Your Beretta 92 is customized with non-OEM parts. The hammer spring is reduced power, and the recoil spring is increased power though by one pound. You have a fine but non standard pistol. The changes may or may not be the cause of your observation. I would not fret about your observation. There was a time when I would have. I became expert at making good guns malfunction but trying to do just that, and I tried to fix things that were not broken. My only suggestion comes from above. Remove extractor, clean that groove, and I will say clean firing pin channel. My guess is that your weapon would have ejected that case had it not been altered.

[fixer]

The fact that it is cycling reliable enough that a few stovepipes is abnormal is pretty amazing, actually.

most semi autos when fired without magazine either stovepipe or drop the casing down the mag well.

[Dcowboyscr]

Another Question, I’ve noticed recently while dry firing, holding the trigger back and cycling the slide to check the trigger reset that in the last 200 rounds sometimes the reset i hardly hear the click noise when the trigger resets. It’s still resetting like normal in the same spot every time but sometimes for say 10 pulls it will go barely audible and then it goes back to hearing the very audible click sound. 1,500 rounds through the pistol now. LTT Optimized trigger bar and match sear, match hammer, and 14 lb CS hammer spring. The trigger is super smooth and broken in now. I’d say I have at least another 1,500 dry fires through it at least.

Anyone have any ideas about this? I can sometimes release the trigger now and not hear a click from the trigger resetting at all. Happens rarely.

[pangloss]

Anyone have any ideas about this? I can sometimes release the trigger now and not hear a click from the trigger resetting at all. Happens rarely.I wouldn't worry about it. Some of the PX4 pistols sound weird when you listen carefully during dry fire. It bothers me, but I've seen no evidence that it adversely affects function. You might skim the 2000 round challenge thread for the Beretta 92 entries. I don't know that you'd find anything immediately relevant, but it's a great thread regardless.

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