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Kirk
10-19-2021, 11:02 PM
I'm currently looking at revamping my live fire training and I was hoping to some thoughts from the competitive shooters here. The question here is simple:

What 5 drills, classifiers, or skills tests give you the most bang for your buck at the range? If you were to limit yourself to a handful of drills/classifiers/tests, which would they be?

I can dry fire stages and USPSA-specific skills at home, and I'm looking at simplifying my live fire training a good bit going into 2022. I was just curious what handful of drills you guys would focus on if you were limited to those.

JCN
10-20-2021, 06:06 AM
What are your goals and where is your skill set at?

My live fire changes depending on what I feel is deficient and needs work.

Or it reflects what specific thing I’ve been working on dry to confirm I’m doing what I think I’m doing.

But whatever you do, do it on a timer.

Clusterfrack
10-20-2021, 11:05 AM
My practice sessions typically involve warming up with a few mags of fundamentals. Eg. Doubles or practical accuracy. Then, I design a 8-12 round drill around what I’m currently working on. After running that (usually in different ways) past the limits of my ability, I pick a sub-section where I failed and work that in isolation. I do that in dryfire and live.

I dryfire a lot on the range, and often don’t even touch the trigger.

I can’t imagine limiting myself to 5 drills.

Kirk
10-20-2021, 01:10 PM
What are your goals and where is your skill set at?

My live fire changes depending on what I feel is deficient and needs work.

Or it reflects what specific thing I’ve been working on dry to confirm I’m doing what I think I’m doing.

But whatever you do, do it on a timer.

Yeah, I probably should have been more specific to my situation in my initial post, it was somewhat vague. My bad.

I dry fire a lot and all of my work is done on a timer. The range situation where I am *absolutely sucks*, meaning I have to drive over 90 minutes 1 way to get to a range bay. So basically I'm just focusing on confirming that my dry fire is translating to live fire. I've been running -

15 yard bill drill (I switched to 15y when my 7y time got into the 1.7x consistently and I felt like I was getting minimal returns)

El Prez (I'm in the 5.5 second range using my CO gun - need to get faster/more consistent)

Merle's Standards (this gives me distance/SHO/WHO work)

Tight Squeeze (gives me hard targets/partials at speed)

300 Drill on B8 at 25y (10r FS/10 SHO/10 WHO)

In a perfect world, I'd be able to get a lot more specific in my live fire, but with such limited range time due to the 3 hour travel time and thus my need to focus on dry fire, I'm essentially just trying to track fundamentals.

So basically I was just curious what handful of fundamental drills/standards/etc you'd use to track your overall skill development in live fire. Kind of an impossible task I realize, but something that I might have to do unless I move :D I know you did something kind of similar with ammo shortage/prices last year and I really enjoyed reading that - you made incredible progress while shooting a very limited number of live rounds

JCN
10-20-2021, 01:30 PM
Kirk

The one thing missing from your description of your times…

How were the hits?

A 1.7 second Bill drill from a draw to 7 yards is excellent.

That could be a 0.9 draw with 5x 0.15 splits.

If you’re getting all alpha at 7 yards, that’s very good.

If you’re getting all alpha off a draw at 15 yards with 6 shots that’s seriously impressive.

But that’s a little disconnect with your El Prez unless you have a 2.5 second reload…

So something seems funny.

What is your hit factor on live El Pres?

And what are your future goals?

General competency? USPSA specific stuff?

I have some recommendations if you can clarify the seeming discrepancy between your Bill drill and your El Pres.

Clusterfrack
10-20-2021, 01:44 PM
Here’s what I’m doing now. Working different confirmation types. 2 positions, 10 rounds. Note no-shoot behind 6” plate on exit.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211020/cef096dc6f4a852ad0f58068e4a11940.jpg

JCN
10-20-2021, 02:08 PM
Here’s what I’m doing now. Working different confirmation types. 2 positions, 10 rounds. Note no-shoot behind 6” plate on exit.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211020/cef096dc6f4a852ad0f58068e4a11940.jpg

Despite the way he asked it, he’s not really asking what YOU do.

He’s asking what should he do. :D

Clusterfrack
10-20-2021, 02:17 PM
Despite the way he asked it, he’s not really asking what YOU do.

He’s asking what should he do. :D

I get that. I’m giving an example of constructing a “drill” to work on specific skills. If I could rewind the tape of my training, I would spend less time on Bill Drill and El Pres type drills.

Kirk
10-20-2021, 02:30 PM
Kirk

The one thing missing from your description of your times…

How were the hits?

A 1.7 second Bill drill from a draw to 7 yards is excellent.

That could be a 0.9 draw with 5x 0.15 splits.

If you’re getting all alpha at 7 yards, that’s very good.

If you’re getting all alpha off a draw at 15 yards with 6 shots that’s seriously impressive.

But that’s a little disconnect with your El Prez unless you have a 2.5 second reload…

So something seems funny.

What is your hit factor on live El Pres?

And what are your future goals?

General competency? USPSA specific stuff?

I have some recommendations if you can clarify the seeming discrepancy between your Bill drill and your El Pres.

These are great questions and I should've clarified. My hits on the 7 yard bill drill are usually As in that time frame unless I'm really pushing to set a record. I'm decent at pure hoser stuff and one of the reasons I don't shoot it at 7 is because my index is good enough that I can get away with being pretty lazy with the dot. I'd say the 7 yard bill drill is not representative of my actual skill level, it makes me sound like a better shooter than I actually am lol.

My El Prez time is probably a better indicator of my skills. My raw time is often a shade under 5 seconds, but with .1/point scoring penalties I'm usually in the 5.5 range. 1.1 turning draw (yikes!), 1.4 reload (double yikes!), and .23 splits are about normal for me. Hit factor is 11ish. All things that need work, especially my reloads. I'm not sure at what point I should keep pushing hit factor here or try to make the drill a little harder (possibly move it to 15 or add no shoots)

My main goals are general competency really. I haven't shot a USPSA match in quite some time, though I do plan get back to competing soon.

JCN
10-20-2021, 02:36 PM
I get that. I’m giving an example of constructing a “drill” to work on specific skills. If I could rewind the tape of my training, I would spend less time on Bill Drill and El Pres type drills.

Yes, but you didn’t say that. Because you might be able to do those drills now because you did Bill and El Pres type drills before.

Personally if someone has poor trigger control I wouldn’t recommend anything at distance yet and I wouldn’t add movement yet. Walk before running.

But at a certain level of proficiency, like you said, doing more movement is helpful.

Which is why it’s important IMO to know where his proficiency lies currently.

Kirk
10-20-2021, 02:37 PM
I get that. I’m giving an example of constructing a “drill” to work on specific skills. If I could rewind the tape of my training, I would spend less time on Bill Drill and El Pres type drills.

This makes a lot of sense to me too and might be something I should consider. If I could develop specific drills/stages to work on specific weaknesses I notice in dry fire, it could be more beneficial for me than focusing strictly on standard type drills

JCN
10-20-2021, 02:44 PM
These are great questions and I should've clarified. My hits on the 7 yard bill drill are usually As in that time frame unless I'm really pushing to set a record. I'm decent at pure hoser stuff and one of the reasons I don't shoot it at 7 is because my index is good enough that I can get away with being pretty lazy with the dot. I'd say the 7 yard bill drill is not representative of my actual skill level, it makes me sound like a better shooter than I actually am lol.

My El Prez time is probably a better indicator of my skills. My raw time is often a shade under 5 seconds, but with .1/point scoring penalties I'm usually in the 5.5 range. 1.1 turning draw (yikes!), 1.4 reload (double yikes!), and .23 splits are about normal for me. All things that need work, especially my reloads.

My main goals are general competency really. I haven't shot a USPSA match in quite some time, though I do plan get back to competing soon.

But why not use USPSA scoring for the USPSA standards and get a sense of what percents you’re running?

As for 7 yard open Bill drills, I’d suggest Eye of the Tiger and It’s not Brain Surgery for 7 yard heads.

It’s basically a Blake drill on 7 yard heads. Score it Hit Factor and you’ll get a sense of where your functional accuracy is at.


https://youtu.be/84IrC0-LH50

If you’re good on hoser stuff you might try the “Can You Count”


https://youtu.be/IF79vFubeIA

Another one that I do sometimes that’s along the lines of Clusterfrack drill:

Different size targets (shot with 40SW).

https://youtu.be/kHaMKbDXO6A

Kirk
10-20-2021, 09:41 PM
But why not use USPSA scoring for the USPSA standards and get a sense of what percents you’re running?

As for 7 yard open Bill drills, I’d suggest Eye of the Tiger and It’s not Brain Surgery for 7 yard heads.

It’s basically a Blake drill on 7 yard heads. Score it Hit Factor and you’ll get a sense of where your functional accuracy is at.


https://youtu.be/84IrC0-LH50

If you’re good on hoser stuff you might try the “Can You Count”


https://youtu.be/IF79vFubeIA

Another one that I do sometimes that’s along the lines of Clusterfrack drill:

Different size targets (shot with 40SW).

https://youtu.be/kHaMKbDXO6A

Thanks so much, brother! I really appreciate these recommendations and I'm going to run them at my next range session. I'm also going to convert my scores on El Prez to USPSA scoring and track the new drills you recommended the same way.

Also, are you running an Aimcam by chance in the videos? I just picked some up to try out but haven't tested them yet

JCN
10-21-2021, 07:14 AM
Kirk

I have an AimCam but I don’t like the weight and heat of the unit for gaming stuff. The videos were done with a hat mounted GoPro Session since it’s small and light.

If you have a USPSA membership you can use the calculator to tell you what your hit factor represents achievement wise.

For example, if you’ve set up El Pres to spec and can do it in 5.0 sec with two Charlies (-4 points so 5.4 sec by your scoring) then you get HF of 11.2 with minor scoring and that’s a GM run!

78776

If you’re at the M/GM stand and shoot classifier level, then I think I might work on more movement, super wide transition and gear change drills. What is your range setup like? Open bay outside? One berm or any ability to shoot 90-150 degrees?