Training revolver

[03RN]

The thread in the semi auto section got me thinking. I know, bad idea... The idea of a training gun to work alongside our carry gun does have some merit.

For revolvers the unloading of carry ammo is so easy and doesn't effect our carry ammo that isn't an issue. Breakage is, a bigger concern ime, with revolvers. I carried my 4" m64 when I had to send my M19 out a few years back.

That was kind of my thinking with my 3" Sokol M10. If my m66 goes down I've got a gun I can drop in my holster and run with it. Night sights, good trigger, good grips, etc. I won't feel like I'm under gunned while I'm trying to fix the 66.

But how about a training gun? I really enjoy shooting my m66 which is why it's over 25k rounds of full house magnums through it. But at some point I should step back and keep it for carry and shoot other guns for training, right?

Nearly any k frame will give me what I want although .38 only guns don't help much with recoil management. So if it's a magnum k frame it's a somewhat iffy magnum trainer unless it's a 66-8 or 19-9. Which is exactly what I've been looking for. A 4" modern k frame to abuse and leave my 2.75" 66 as a dedicated carry gun that doesn't get shot much anymore.

What's you revolver trainer and why? Is it identical to your carry or just close enough?

[john c]

For many years I carried a 642 as a backup. My training gun was a 640-1. It fit the same holsters, etc, and I could shoot many more rounds in a shooting session.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Catshooter]

For me your question was fairly tough. The only real answer I could come up with was multiple copies of the carry piece. Somewhat complicated and certainly expensive these days.

When I started shifting away from rollers (in the early eighties) I applied the same idea to them. Still do, really, the "pair and a spare" concept.

Sorry I have nothing other than that of value. Twenty five thousand full power in one sixty six would make me start searching too! :)


Cat

[revchuck38]

I rarely shoot .357s anymore, so for me, it's easy - carry the 3" M10 and shoot one of my other K frames. Or it should be, but I like shooting the 3" so much it's about the only revolver I shoot. I do need to change that.

[jh9]

Shouldn't really matter so long as it was made after 1997. Any of the post mim guns (even the pre-lock, post-mim) should be serviceable by the factory.

The best trainer is a current production model you bought new that you *wink wink nudge nudge* never shot reloads through so you have a factory warranty. Shoot it until the wheels fall off and let S&W figure out the rest. So for OP the most logical course of action is to get the 4.25" 66-8 and drive on. Just don't disable the lock since, for a range gun it doesn't matter and again... warranty.

[Colt191145lover]

I just bought a identical 66-8. Also let's me mess with grips and parts without effecting my carry gun. YMMV


78044

[eb07]

The thread in the semi auto section got me thinking. I know, bad idea... The idea of a training gun to work alongside our carry gun does have some merit.

For revolvers the unloading of carry ammo is so easy and doesn't effect our carry ammo that isn't an issue. Breakage is, a bigger concern ime, with revolvers. I carried my 4" m64 when I had to send my M19 out a few years back.

That was kind of my thinking with my 3" Sokol M10. If my m66 goes down I've got a gun I can drop in my holster and run with it. Night sights, good trigger, good grips, etc. I won't feel like I'm under gunned while I'm trying to fix the 66.

But how about a training gun? I really enjoy shooting my m66 which is why it's over 25k rounds of full house magnums through it. But at some point I should step back and keep it for carry and shoot other guns for training, right?

Nearly any k frame will give me what I want although .38 only guns don't help much with recoil management. So if it's a magnum k frame it's a somewhat iffy magnum trainer unless it's a 66-8 or 19-9. Which is exactly what I've been looking for. A 4" modern k frame to abuse and leave my 2.75" 66 as a dedicated carry gun that doesn't get shot much anymore.

What's you revolver trainer and why? Is it identical to your carry or just close enough?

I use cheap charter arms professional 6 shots.
Use the same speedloader as my k frame

[RevolverRob]

This is a tough one for me, because I tend to view recoil management as secondary to trigger press. As a result, I view pretty much all DA revolvers as interchangeable. I'm not saying if you're running an Open Class ICORE gun you can just pick up an LCR and win Open Class with it. But I'm willing to put money on the table that you could pick it up and shoot just fine and vice versa without much of an issue.

So, for me it's far more critical to have a couple or three or twelve guns that have a spinny thing in the middle that holds ammo. And then you pull the trigger and spinny thing goes around and boom happens.

If you've found a holster you like, just buy one everytime you buy a new wheelieboi and call it a day.

[Catshooter]

"wheelieboi" I been doing guns for more'n 50 years and have never run across this technical term before.

I like it. :)


Cat

[MK11]

There's a bunch of 4-inch model 65s and 64s on Gunbroker. They aren't quite the steals that they were a couple of years ago when Aim Surplus had them for $299 but a decent deal can still be had.

I just won a 64 that's going to be chopped to three inches and serve as the trainer/beater to my three inch Model 13.

[JWH]

I went to the local farm supply to check out their Taurus 856 deals, and walked out with a 640 pro. My justification was to use it as a trainer for my 442. Looking at ammo prices, I’m debating getting it cut for 9mm. Alternatively, I just picked up a titanium cylinder that I could drop in the 442, and get the 442’s steel cylinder cut for 9mm/moonclips.

Would rechambering to 9mm absolutely preclude the use of 38spl in that cylinder?

Would the “moonclip” extractor of the pro need to be further thinned to work with a rechambered/cut 442 cylinder?

Is there something else I’m missing?78156

[Catshooter]

"Is there something else I'm missing?"

Well, with that piece I'd say you're well onto a nice track! Sweet weapon indeed.


Cat

[jetfire]

I have training doubles for all my serious guns. So for the MFR project that meant building one for matches and carry and another one for practice.

[03RN]

I wound up picking up a 4" m10-10 off GunBroker for $300. It's one of the DC guns with a round butt frame. I've got some ahrends retro target grips and after I paint the front sight it'll be my training gun.

I think my 66 has proven itself and POA/poi is so reliable I think it can strictly be my carry gun/back up competition gun.

For dryfire, training, and competitions I think the m10 with 158s @ 1000fps will do it all for a while.

[revchuck38]

I wound up picking up a 4" m10-10 off GunBroker for $300. It's one of the DC guns with a round butt frame. I've got some ahrends retro target grips and after I paint the front sight it'll be my training gun.

I think my 66 has proven itself and POA/poi is so reliable I think it can strictly be my carry gun/back up competition gun.

For dryfire, training, and competitions I think the m10 with 158s @ 1000fps will do it all for a while.

158s at 1000 fps won't blow up the gun, but they will cause it to wear a lot more quickly. You're going to have to use a relatively slow powder to reach that velocity.

FWIW, Alliant's max +P load of 5.7 grains of BE-86 under a Rainier 158-grain plated RN went 890 fps from my 3" M10. From a 4" gun with lead bullets, it'd probably go ~925-950 fps. I backed it down to 5.2 grains (840 fps) to approximate my carry load of R-P 158-grain LSWC-HPs.

[03RN]

158s at 1000 fps won't blow up the gun, but they will cause it to wear a lot more quickly. You're going to have to use a relatively slow powder to reach that velocity.

FWIW, Alliant's max +P load of 5.7 grains of BE-86 under a Rainier 158-grain plated RN went 890 fps from my 3" M10. From a 4" gun with lead bullets, it'd probably go ~925-950 fps. I backed it down to 5.2 grains (840 fps) to approximate my carry load of R-P 158-grain LSWC-HPs.

Thats my current load(5.7 of be-86). I get 1k fps from a 4" barrel.

I'm willing to see how long the 10 lasts before it needs maintenance.

I've read over on the s-w forum that modern .38 k frames are made identical to .357s but with .38 chambers.

[Dave T]

Looking at ammo prices, I’m debating getting it cut for 9mm. Alternatively, I just picked up a titanium cylinder that I could drop in the 442, and get the 442’s steel cylinder cut for 9mm/moonclips.

Would rechambering to 9mm absolutely preclude the use of 38spl in that cylinder?

Would the “moonclip” extractor of the pro need to be further thinned to work with a rechambered/cut 442 cylinder?

Is there something else I’m missing?78156

My opinion, since you asked, is that you have a very desirable J-frame in that 640 Pro, particularly since it doesn't have the stupid hole in the side. I would count my blessings and not screw with it chasing the Holy 9mm. And as far as I know you can't shoot 38 Specials in 9mm chambered revolvers. If you can chamber one it might go off but other things can go wrong...sticky extraction & bulged case heads as examples. YMMV!

Dave

PS: Others may have a different view and you're welcome to listen to them and ignore me. No hard feelings.

[jh9]

My opinion, since you asked, is that you have a very desirable J-frame in that 640 Pro, particularly since it doesn't have the stupid hole in the side. I would count my blessings and not screw with it chasing the Holy 9mm. And as far as I know you can't shoot 38 Specials in 9mm chambered revolvers. If you can chamber one it might go off but other things can go wrong...sticky extraction & bulged case heads as examples. YMMV!

Dave

PS: Others may have a different view and you're welcome to listen to them and ignore me. No hard feelings.

TK Custom advertises their 9mm conversions as still working with .38 and .357, just bulged cases and nothing over 35,000psi or the brass will stick. No 9mm nato or +P, or brass will stick.

That's how they advertise their work. I've never used it (yet).

[03RN]

TK Custom advertises their 9mm conversions as still working with .38 and .357, just bulged cases and nothing over 35,000psi or the brass will stick. No 9mm nato or +P, or brass will stick.

That's how they advertise their work. I've never used it (yet).

Their claims are also why Im not overly worried about warm .38s. They claim the can cut M10s for 9mm.

[Totem Polar]

I went to the local farm supply to check out their Taurus 856 deals, and walked out with a 640 pro. My justification was to use it as a trainer for my 442. Looking at ammo prices, I’m debating getting it cut for 9mm. Alternatively, I just picked up a titanium cylinder that I could drop in the 442, and get the 442’s steel cylinder cut for 9mm/moonclips.

Would rechambering to 9mm absolutely preclude the use of 38spl in that cylinder?

Would the “moonclip” extractor of the pro need to be further thinned to work with a rechambered/cut 442 cylinder?

Is there something else I’m missing?78156

I have that same revolver. It’s a great example of the breed.

Please don’t cut it up, unless you want to make baby Crom cry.

[tango-papa]

I wound up picking up a 4" m10-10 off GunBroker for $300. It's one of the DC guns with a round butt frame. I've got some ahrends retro target grips and after I paint the front sight it'll be my training gun.

I think my 66 has proven itself and POA/poi is so reliable I think it can strictly be my carry gun/back up competition gun.

For dryfire, training, and competitions I think the m10 with 158s @ 1000fps will do it all for a while.

...the photos of your new Model 10 didn't load. ;)

I was very seriously considering bidding - looks to be a nice one.

[03RN]

...the photos of your new Model 10 didn't load. ;)

I was very seriously considering bidding - looks to be a nice one.
I haven't gotten it yet lol. I will post some up.

[revchuck38]

I haven't gotten it yet lol. I will post some up.

A likely story...;)

[jtcarm]

IMO, you need twin carry guns in case one goes down,

[willie]

Thats my current load(5.7 of be-86). I get 1k fps from a 4" barrel.

I'm willing to see how long the 10 lasts before it needs maintenance.

I've read over on the s-w forum that modern .38 k frames are made identical to .357s but with .38 chambers.

K frame revolvers have had the same metallurgy at least since 1970 which is the date that I started talking with the then product service manager, Mr. Longtin. One difference between those chambered for .38 and those for magnums is that the magnums have a supported forcing cone located within the frame. The .38's have more of the cone protruding from the frame. Theoretically, it is more fragile. These comments refer to the older revolvers. I have not compared recently made ones.

1000 fps with a 158 grain bullet is a fine load but would wear most of us out when used as a practice load--or at least it would have me. I urge younger guys to practice with shooting gloves because it's a matter of time before nerve damage occurs in the palm. After I became arthritic, I wore a 1lb weight on my wrist to soften recoil forces affecting elbow and shoulder.

[03RN]

IMO, you need twin carry guns in case one goes down,

That's what my Sokol gun is for

[03RN]

K frame revolvers have had the same metallurgy at least since 1970 which is the date that I started talking with the then product service manager, Mr. Longtin. One difference between those chambered for .38 and those for magnums is that the magnums have a supported forcing cone located within the frame. The .38's have more of the cone protruding from the frame. Theoretically, it is more fragile. These comments refer to the older revolvers. I have not compared recently made ones.

1000 fps with a 158 grain bullet is a fine load but would wear most of us out when used as a practice load--or at least it would have me. I urge younger guys to practice with shooting gloves because it's a matter of time before nerve damage occurs in the palm. After I became arthritic, I wore a 1lb weight on my wrist to soften recoil forces affecting elbow and shoulder.

Noted.

At least the warm .38 is a step down from magnums for practice.;)

I really don't think the 158@ 1k fps is that bad but my wife thinks its a bit much. She does like a 125gr fmj @ 1k fps (although it's probably 850 from her 2" M15). Which works out since it has the same poi as the Winchester bonded ranger ammo

[03RN]

So I figure this will be my new training gun as long as it shoots ok. The trigger is a thing of beauty. The cylinder gap looks good, when the hammer is cocked the cylinder is very tight. Otherwise it's pretty lose. Hopefully it shoots ok.
The finish is pretty bad. It's a round butt m10-10 and came with standard square butt panels which is why I think I got it so cheap but is exactly what I wanted since I had a set of ahrends conversion grips for it.
78886
78887

[FrankB]

03RN
The Model 64 I bought a few weeks had a wobbly cylinder, so I but a new one. That tightened it up considerably, but when the new cylinder bushing arrived the following day, it was like a brand new revolver. The cylinder was $100, and the bushing a mere $5.

[tango-papa]

So I figure this will be my new training gun as long as it shoots ok. The trigger is a thing of beauty. The cylinder gap looks good, when the hammer is cocked the cylinder is very tight. Otherwise it's pretty lose. Hopefully it shoots ok.
The finish is pretty bad. It's a round butt m10-10 and came with standard square butt panels which is why I think I got it so cheap but is exactly what I wanted since I had a set of ahrends conversion grips for it.
78886
78887

Very nice.

Sending that one to KS to make a twin 3 incher would be pretty darn neat.
Just sayin...

[03RN]

Very nice.

Sending that one to KS to make a twin 3 incher would be pretty darn neat.
Just sayin...

This guy's going to stay as is I think. I like 3" guns for EDC, especially since I prefer aiwb, but I like 4" guns too.

[03RN]

So far so good. It's a well worn k frame. What's not to love?

She does shoot slow though. 910fps/905fps with 5.7 be-86/5.2 unique.

[falnovice]

I am a big fan of having an exact duplicate pistol for training and high round counts.
A long time ago now I had a come to Jesus moment when I witnessed a good friend of mine experience a parts breakage malfunction with his Glock. We had just got to the range after work and he cranked out precisely ONE round before the gun went tits up. Now he had a pretty high round count on that gun with no maintenance, as he liked to brag about how tough the gun and didn't need maintenance, yet what stuck with me was that this was his carry gun.....and he only managed one round....in a Glock no less, the uber-pistol the gunrags (waaay before youtube) were always telling us are indestructible.

After that I became a convert to the clean, lube, maintain religion for my carry gun, and using a dupe for training.
Admittedly, I probably neglect my range guns still.

[03RN]

78923

[03RN]

Drills today before work
79075

[03RN]

80880

Not to shabby with my new wadcutter recipe (4gr 231 under a 148gr dewc from rimrock.)

The 2 flyers were my first 2 shots which spoiled the whole group but they felt off so I won't blame the ammo.

[tango-papa]

80880

Not to shabby with my new wadcutter recipe (4gr 231 under a 148gr dewc from rimrock.)

The 2 flyers were my first 2 shots which spoiled the whole group but they felt off so I won't blame the ammo.

Flyers...?

That looks like a pretty damn nice grouping of three controlled pairs.

Not too shabby indeed - nice shooting.

[Lex Luthier]

Flyers...?

That looks like a pretty damn nice grouping of three controlled pairs.

Not too shabby indeed - nice shooting.

Indeed. It looks more like they went *exactly* where you aimed them, but were not sure of your sight picture vs POI. I'd be pleased as punch with those results.