Training Pistol

[CHNEAL]

So I have finally come to a place that I am actually committed and comfortable with an entire carry system. By system I mean the complete pistol accessory’s included, belt and holster/mag carrier. For years I have chased the elusive “ perfection” from the company that claims it and several others. Ive had several points that I thought “ this is close, if only…” and the hunt continued. It always seemed that if the pistol was right the sights weren’t. If the sights were great the damn gun didn't have a rail…if it had a rail then the light I wanted didn't work for me…..
I know you have all been through this.
Anyway I have actually dialed it in and I have put together a system that is exactly what I want and feel I need in a gun to help protect me and mine. Like so many of these types of things they seem to come full circle if you stand still long enough.
The point of this is that after all these years I am now going to put together a dedicated training pistol in the exact configuration of my primary carry. No longer will I need to safe and clear my sidearm for dry fire practice ( I still will of course). No longer will I have to put a dirty and HOT gun back down my pants when leaving the range. This means I have also dropped out of my last class because the gun ( broke an extractor on a gen 4 19 at a class a few years ago)I was using went down as I will have an exact spare.

This pistol will live all its indoor not at the range life with a dry fire mag and barrel block installed. It will live in a dedicated orange wing claw 2.5 and I am even going to weight down a couple of oem mags with orange plates and make dummy mags. This will allow me to practice much more and do it without any more administrative handing of live weapons in the house with my family then necessary for cleaning and maintenance.
I have always wanted to do this but just wasn't in a place where both the carry and training gun weren’t going to change or be different. And honestly the expense was a factor as well. I know that I could have done this with a SIRT pistol or other types of training aids but I want this to also serve as a backup to my carry pistol.
So I have assembled- or at least ordered all the parts needed ( other then an SCD) to put together a new carry gun and make the one I am carrying now my training gun and I am as excited as a kid at Xmas!

Glock 19 Gen 5 MOS
Heinie MOS ledge sights
FCD plate
RMR 06 type2
Streamlight TLR-7A
Barrel Blok
Orange WingClaw 2.5 with DCC mono block-ordered
Orange AIWM mag carrier-ordered
Glock OEM Orange floor plates x3 - ordered
Glock OEM mags x 2 to replace the used ones I am going to dummy
DriFire Mag-ordered
SCD-the only part I just can’t get my hands on( hell I wouldn’t even mind getting gouged on a couple!)

Anyway That’s my plan. Anyone else go about it this way? How do you like it? What did I miss?

77931

[scw2]

I do the same thing. I’d say you’re pretty much good to go, and I did it also to reduce the need to admin handle pistols plus swapping out SD ammo after I chamber it x times. It might be worth vetting your new pistol and use that for carry instead given your other pistol may have a lot more rounds through it.

[4RNR]

My only problem was getting a proper holster and belt. And that was my fault and not something I was chasing but couldn't get just right. At one point I refused to buy anything specific. Walmart belt and whatever cheap holster was good enough. Once I actually bought a correct belt and proper holster and found how much more comfortable it was to carry and to carry more than just some small single stack ....that was the "perfection" for me. I don't chase anything else.

I don't bother with lights although I have a few. I don't carry them. And all sights I've had seem to work the same way.

Dry fire I do with the same gun. All the money spent on special additional guns and parts can go towards ammo. It's cheaper to just unload the gun.

My carry gun doubles as my training gun and triples as my night stand gun.

The only thing I really find to be a pain in the ass is dry firing striker guns. The constant racking of the slide. Hammer gun are so much easier in that area
Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[RJ]

Just a couple thoughts, having trod on this path a while.

Have you thought about purchasing a blue gun? It might inexpensively address some aspects of administrative handling. Especially a weighted one. The one's I've had from Rings are astonishingly life-like, albeit from a block of blue inert plastic.

What about Dry Practicing using the simple Zip-Tie hack (assuming a Glock)? (insert zip-tie, tail first, in through an open slide down the barrel. Carefully ease the slide home, at rest, such that the top of the slide sits against the now-upright and bent-at-90 head of the zip tie.) The trigger (because the zip-tie prevents the connector from clicking back down to reset against the trigger bar as normal) can then be manipulated through part of it's travel. Yes, it's mushy, but works pretty well if you want to simulate trigger presses.


However, I totally get the "2 is 1" philosophy, and applaud you for setting up a dedicated, backup / spare pistol for practice. I am somewhat in the same territory, carrying a G19 Gen 5 MOS and competing/Dry Practicing with a G34 Gen 5 MOS. Both have the same optic. The majority of my dry work is with the G34 for USPSA; generally the G19 is chambered and setup in it's rig.

Good luck!

[CHNEAL]

I do the same thing. I’d say you’re pretty much good to go, and I did it also to reduce the need to admin handle pistols plus swapping out SD ammo after I chamber it x times. It might be worth vetting your new pistol and use that for carry instead given your other pistol may have a lot more rounds through it.
Yes I worded the post wrong and you are absolutely correct. I have 200 rounds of 147 gr HST set aside to vet the new pistol and it will replace the the one I carry now that has about 6k rounds thru it and will become the training gun.

[octagon]

I've done this for years after reading IIRC Mas Ayoob's thoughts on it. It works for dry fire, it works if you are involved in a Defensive Gun Use, it works for training classes and it works if you need to send your gun in for repair. I have 2 of each of most of my guns for just these reasons. It can get expensive while trying to narrow down your final true choice or if you switch out carry guns often but the benefits are worth it to me.

[breakingtime91]

I've done this for years after reading IIRC Mas Ayoob's thoughts on it. It works for dry fire, it works if you are involved in a Defensive Gun Use, it works for training classes and it works if you need to send your gun in for repair. I have 2 of each of most of my guns for just these reasons. It can get expensive while trying to narrow down your final true choice or if you switch out carry guns often but the benefits are worth it to me.

I have done the same, I have three of the same gun right now. 1 carry, 1 training, 1 back up if I ever need to send one in. This is the only time I have ever done this, and that is how much I believe in the platform I have. Feels nice to find "the one"

[JCN]

Agree with all.

I have dry copies of my primary competition and carry guns for the exact reasons stated above.

The next step is 3 identical copies.

One to beat on at the range and never clean unless malfunctions, one dry one, one low round count carry one.

For a dedicated practice Glock I really like the Glock Store reset trigger better than the Dry Fire mag because then I could still do magazine changes and other drills like that.

[CHNEAL]

I have done the same, I have three of the same gun right now. 1 carry, 1 training, 1 back up if I ever need to send one in. This is the only time I have ever done this, and that is how much I believe in the platform I have. Feels nice to find "the one"

YES IT DOES! I was just thinking that if 2 is good 3 is better…

[CHNEAL]

Agree with all.

I have dry copies of my primary competition and carry guns for the exact reasons stated above.

The next step is 3 identical copies.

One to beat on at the range and never clean unless malfunctions, one dry one, one low round count carry one.

For a dedicated practice Glock I really like the Glock Store reset trigger better than the Dry Fire mag because then I could still do magazine changes and other drills like that.

I am not familiar with the reset trigger, off to the Glock store I go. Thanks.

[Shawn Dodson]

Being a submariner I've lived under the philosophy of dual redundancy for over 40 years - one is none, two is one.

I buy defense guns in pairs and outfit them similarly. When I take a training class I take both guns so that if one goes down I can just reach into my range bag for the other and drive on. So far I haven't had to do this. (I also take a third gun of the same caliber for just in case.) All my defense pistols are Glocks (except a Seecamp .32) so I have the same manual of arms. I'm not a Glock fanboy I just stick with Glock for consistency. Beware the man with only one gun - he probably knows how to use it.

[JCN]

I am not familiar with the reset trigger, off to the Glock store I go. Thanks.


https://youtu.be/-ekwvHop8o4

This is with the reset trigger and a cheapo laser bullet of eBay. I like the feeling of hitting the wall and breaking the shot with a striker release. That’s something you don’t get with a blue gun and something you don’t get with paper in the breech face. You have to actually swap out trigger and striker so it’s best for a dedicated dry gun. Glock Store will tell you that you can still light off primers with it but in my experience it’s too light of a strike to do that reliably.



Beware the man with only one gun - he probably knows how to use it.

I have not found that to be the case at all. :D

[RJ]

Being a submariner...



What boat?

(I worked for IBM FSD in the early 80s to mid-90s, supplying systems to 688s and 751s. Mostly AN/BQQ-5C, some AN/BSY-1. Hope OP won't mind a slight detour.)

[Shawn Dodson]

What boat?

643, George Bancroft. It's now a memorial at the Franklin gate at Subase Kings Bay. I was a Missile Tech. I became a Systems Engineer with Lockheed Missiles & Space when I got out in 86. I have more time underway on 726-class boats than I had in the Navy. Still punching holes, just not in uniform.

[RJ]

643, George Bancroft. It's now a memorial at the Franklin gate at Subase Kings Bay. I was a Missile Tech. I became a Systems Engineer with Lockheed Missiles & Space when I got out in 86. I have more time underway on 726-class boats than I had in the Navy. Still punching holes, just not in uniform.

Very cool.

Later on in my career, I was involved in some things for the 726s. Those are big boats. :) My manager sent me out to Bangor once for some data gathering. I boarded USS Georgia at Delta Pier for a day at sea. I didn't go back aft, since my stuff was in sonar.

Thanks for your service.

[DDTSGM]

I am even going to weight down a couple of oem mags with orange plates and make dummy mags. This will allow me to practice much more and do it without any more administrative handing of live weapons in the house with my family then necessary for cleaning and maintenance.

I think you need the following items if you are going to be doing dry fire training.

The problem that I have with the safety barrels is that they won't allow you to do drills using dummy rounds. I am not saying don't get the safety barrel, merely pointing out that at some point you may want to use dummy rounds, so make sure your dry fire protocol addresses that issue.

https://rogersshootingschool.com/products/rogers-shooting-school-tap-rack-training-aid-trt

https://stactionpro.com/product/9-mm-action-trainer-dummy-round/

Loading the mag with S-T dummy rounds and using the TRT will enable you to have enough weight in the mag to make it fall free (the S-T's weigh a little over 1/3 of what a 124gr 9mm does - so if you put 5 of 6 in the mag that would be the equivalent of 2 or 3 loaded rounds).

I have a couple of billet aluminum training mages - don't know who makes them. IDK if this is current info, but Rings (the blue gun people) was stopping sales of their blue guns and training mags to civilians. Unsure what the deal is - perhaps worried about liability should some person who was in the process of turning their life around painted one black and used it in a robbery with bad results to the beloved youth, who, as I said, was turning their life around. Or, maybe it was an agreement with the manufacturers or the pistols copied - conjecture, as IDK.

Nonetheless, these guys have blue weighted training mags available:

https://www.alternateforce.net/glock-blue-training-gun-magazines.html

[CHNEAL]

I think you need the following items if you are going to be doing dry fire training.

The problem that I have with the safety barrels is that they won't allow you to do drills using dummy rounds. I am not saying don't get the safety barrel, merely pointing out that at some point you may want to use dummy rounds, so make sure your dry fire protocol addresses that issue.

https://rogersshootingschool.com/products/rogers-shooting-school-tap-rack-training-aid-trt

https://stactionpro.com/product/9-mm-action-trainer-dummy-round/

Loading the mag with S-T dummy rounds and using the TRT will enable you to have enough weight in the mag to make it fall free (the S-T's weigh a little over 1/3 of what a 124gr 9mm does - so if you put 5 of 6 in the mag that would be the equivalent of 2 or 3 loaded rounds).

I have a couple of billet aluminum training mages - don't know who makes them. IDK if this is current info, but Rings (the blue gun people) was stopping sales of their blue guns and training mags to civilians. Unsure what the deal is - perhaps worried about liability should some person who was in the process of turning their life around painted one black and used it in a robbery with bad results to the beloved youth, who, as I said, was turning their life around. Or, maybe it was an agreement with the manufacturers or the pistols copied - conjecture, as IDK.

Nonetheless, these guys have blue weighted training mags available:

https://www.alternateforce.net/glock-blue-training-gun-magazines.html

Some great points and advice. Thank you. I went with the Barrel Blok just to address some of those issues. I hadn’t gotten around to dummy rounds yet however and those look good. One of the things I like about the barrel Blok is it gives my wife and daughter real time notice that the pistol is a training aid if they were to walk into the room when I was doing some practice. I always notify them first but you know how that works. The orange flag is immediate reassurance to them.

https://bloksafety.com/

77975

[RJ]

I went with the Barrel Blok...

...

https://bloksafety.com/



Cool gizmo.

Question for ya?

If you insert this barrel blok into the breach, and close the slide on it, do a dry press, and then cycle the slide to reset the connector, does the blok get extracted from the chamber?

The issue I have using my Tipton Snap Caps for Dry Practice is that when I move the slide, the dummy round, being machined with a lip as per a real cartridge case, ejects as per normal. As a result, I hardly ever use them.

Looking for a better solution that will allow me to dry practice with a snap cap, *and* cycle the slide. The fact a large orange flag sticks out of the barrel is a plus, too; I just wasn't sure how this blok thing worked.

Thanks!

[WobblyPossum]

I also really like the Barrel Blok. It does not extract when you retract the slide as it doesn’t have a groove or lip for the extractor to hook onto. You have to manually push it out from the muzzle end to remove it.

AZoom also makes “Striker Caps” which are their normal snap caps without a rim at the head of the case so the extractor can’t hook onto them. You rack the slide to reset the striker and they remain in the chamber. I use these for web I work out of my duty belt holster setup since the Barrel Blok won’t allow the gun to get deep enough in te holster to engage the retention mechanism.

[CHNEAL]

Cool gizmo.

Question for ya?

If you insert this barrel blok into the breach, and close the slide on it, do a dry press, and then cycle the slide to reset the connector, does the blok get extracted from the chamber?

The issue I have using my Tipton Snap Caps for Dry Practice is that when I move the slide, the dummy round, being machined with a lip as per a real cartridge case, ejects as per normal. As a result, I hardly ever use them.

Looking for a better solution that will allow me to dry practice with a snap cap, *and* cycle the slide. The fact a large orange flag sticks out of the barrel is a plus, too; I just wasn't sure how this blok thing worked.

Thanks!

No sir it will not extract as it is rimless. It allows full manipulation of the slide. Really a very simple yet cool little device.

[CHNEAL]

Played hoodie this afternoon after working all weekend just to do this…
78001
78000

[JCN]

I think you need the following items if you are going to be doing dry fire training.

The problem that I have with the safety barrels is that they won't allow you to do drills using dummy rounds. I am not saying don't get the safety barrel, merely pointing out that at some point you may want to use dummy rounds, so make sure your dry fire protocol addresses that issue.

https://rogersshootingschool.com/products/rogers-shooting-school-tap-rack-training-aid-trt

https://stactionpro.com/product/9-mm-action-trainer-dummy-round/

Loading the mag with S-T dummy rounds and using the TRT will enable you to have enough weight in the mag to make it fall free (the S-T's weigh a little over 1/3 of what a 124gr 9mm does - so if you put 5 of 6 in the mag that would be the equivalent of 2 or 3 loaded rounds).

I have a couple of billet aluminum training mages - don't know who makes them. IDK if this is current info, but Rings (the blue gun people) was stopping sales of their blue guns and training mags to civilians. Unsure what the deal is - perhaps worried about liability should some person who was in the process of turning their life around painted one black and used it in a robbery with bad results to the beloved youth, who, as I said, was turning their life around. Or, maybe it was an agreement with the manufacturers or the pistols copied - conjecture, as IDK.

Nonetheless, these guys have blue weighted training mags available:

https://www.alternateforce.net/glock-blue-training-gun-magazines.html

Double alpha sells weighted dummy mags for Glocks, P320 and CZs.

I usually buy dummy rounds that are made with real lead bullets (usually 124gr) just no powder and an elastic plug instead of primers. I’m anal so I weight my loaded practice mags the same as my competition classifier mags.


Some great points and advice. Thank you. I went with the Barrel Blok just to address some of those issues. I hadn’t gotten around to dummy rounds yet however and those look good. One of the things I like about the barrel Blok is it gives my wife and daughter real time notice that the pistol is a training aid if they were to walk into the room when I was doing some practice. I always notify them first but you know how that works. The orange flag is immediate reassurance to them.

https://bloksafety.com/

77975

For a dedicated dry gun I have also cut off a spare striker tip in the past. Allows you to still feel trigger weight and wall but no chance of ignition. It’s another way to make a training gun “safe.”

[RJ]

No sir it will not extract as it is rimless. It allows full manipulation of the slide. Really a very simple yet cool little device.

Much obliged; I have one on order.

[Utm]

Cool gizmo.

Question for ya?

If you insert this barrel blok into the breach, and close the slide on it, do a dry press, and then cycle the slide to reset the connector, does the blok get extracted from the chamber?

The issue I have using my Tipton Snap Caps for Dry Practice is that when I move the slide, the dummy round, being machined with a lip as per a real cartridge case, ejects as per normal. As a result, I hardly ever use them.

Looking for a better solution that will allow me to dry practice with a snap cap, *and* cycle the slide. The fact a large orange flag sticks out of the barrel is a plus, too; I just wasn't sure how this blok thing worked.

Thanks!
I would recommend double alpha academy dry fire mags. They are weighted and mimic the oem plus 2 mag extensions for glocks. They allow you to rack the slide without the slide locking back

[Bruce Cartwright]

CHNEAL:

Thanks for a thought provoking post. I have been doing something similar for a number of years. I settled on my primary carry gun, then obtained a police trade in version of the same gun and equipped it exactly the same as my carry gun. Then I added a dedicated spare set up the same way as the first two. My practice and reasoning is this: I vet/zero my primary carry gun and shoot it enough to annually verify that it is working properly. I clean it immediately after a range session (I do not like the idea of carrying a dirty gun). My second gun is my training gun. I shoot it extensively and clean it far less frequently than my carry gun. When I teach/attend a shoot/train, I swap out my carry gun for my trainer and vice versa once I finish that range session. My third gun has been shot enough to verify its reliability and zero and is stored. In the event of a justified use of force, I assume that my primary gun will be taken as evidence. I also assume I will probably never get it back. My "spare" then becomes my primary carry gun.

Food for thought.

Bruce

[CHNEAL]

CHNEAL:

Thanks for a thought provoking post. I have been doing something similar for a number of years. I settled on my primary carry gun, then obtained a police trade in version of the same gun and equipped it exactly the same as my carry gun. Then I added a dedicated spare set up the same way as the first two. My practice and reasoning is this: I vet/zero my primary carry gun and shoot it enough to annually verify that it is working properly. I clean it immediately after a range session (I do not like the idea of carrying a dirty gun). My second gun is my training gun. I shoot it extensively and clean it far less frequently than my carry gun. When I teach/attend a shoot/train, I swap out my carry gun for my trainer and vice versa once I finish that range session. My third gun has been shot enough to verify its reliability and zero and is stored. In the event of a justified use of force, I assume that my primary gun will be taken as evidence. I also assume I will probably never get it back. My "spare" then becomes my primary carry gun.

Food for thought.

Bruce

Thank you for the great info and insight. Ive had a couple others mention the “ pair and a spare” method and I believe it is the way i will move. Although my not weak OCD would rather go two pair! Gives me a bedside, basement, training and carry gun all the same and any could be put into service in place of any other. This is the point where my wife asks if Ive taken my meds today!

Thank s again stay safe.

[RJ]

Much obliged; I have one on order.

This Barrel Blok device package arrived and I started using it today for Dry Practice in my G34 gamer gun.

78295

I thought it might not be long enough for the bigger Glock, but it seems they thought of that, as it sticks out about 1/2" or so.

Draws with it inserted are no problem. The trigger press is now a more muted "thunk" than a typical "CLICK" as the striker releases. I wondered if my AMG Commander timer would still pick that up (I use it a lot to time things) and it sure does, no problem.

Racking the slide requires slightly more effort, I'm guessing the extractor is grabbing on the case rim then rubbing as it slides over the plastic. Certainly doable though.

I have not used the 3 mag inserts that came with it yet, but I have some Rogers Shooting ones that seem to do the same thing (suppress the slide stop lever enough to not allow it to raise into the slide, thus not locking the slide back when cycled dry)?

I am very pleased with this purchase. Thanks CHNEAL for making the suggestion, it was a good one.

https://bloksafety.com/

[CHNEAL]

This Barrel Blok device package arrived and I started using it today for Dry Practice in my G34 gamer gun.

78295

I thought it might not be long enough for the bigger Glock, but it seems they thought of that, as it sticks out about 1/2" or so.

Draws with it inserted are no problem. The trigger press is now a more muted "thunk" than a typical "CLICK" as the striker releases. I wondered if my AMG Commander timer would still pick that up (I use it a lot to time things) and it sure does, no problem.

Racking the slide requires slightly more effort, I'm guessing the extractor is grabbing on the case rim then rubbing as it slides over the plastic. Certainly doable though.

I have not used the 3 mag inserts that came with it yet, but I have some Rogers Shooting ones that seem to do the same thing (suppress the slide stop lever enough to not allow it to raise into the slide, thus not locking the slide back when cycled dry)?

I am very pleased with this purchase. Thanks CHNEAL for making the suggestion, it was a good one.

https://bloksafety.com/


I am happy that after all this time and info I have gotten from PF I was able to give back at least a tiny bit to help.

[CHNEAL]

Ok so thanks to the generosity of P-F and especially two great members, The hardware is all finished!
I am now researching the CoolFire training system. Rather expensive but I admit to being intrigued. Anyone here have any experience with it? Care to share your thoughts/observations?

78685

[JCN]

CHNEAL

I have experience with airsoft for training and in watching videos for cool fire I think it would suffer some of the same issues.

1. Recoil is so mild that it’s not helpful for recoil control practice.
2. Recoil is proportional to the waning gas charge.
3. Refilling gas wastes time that could be spent training.

With red dots on your guns I don’t think it’s worth the money.
I would recommend the Glock Store reset trigger instead.

The exception being if you wanted to practice specific things like index shooting without using sights. But a Glock store trigger plus laser bullet would work as well and have more applicability to other things.

If you had zero ability to live fire then I guess maybe cool fire would have more use.

[CHNEAL]

CHNEAL

I have experience with airsoft for training and in watching videos for cool fire I think it would suffer some of the same issues.

1. Recoil is so mild that it’s not helpful for recoil control practice.
2. Recoil is proportional to the waning gas charge.
3. Refilling gas wastes time that could be spent training.

With red dots on your guns I don’t think it’s worth the money.
I would recommend the Glock Store reset trigger instead.

The exception being if you wanted to practice specific things like index shooting without using sights. But a Glock store trigger plus laser bullet would work as well and have more applicability to other things.

If you had zero ability to live fire then I guess maybe cool fire would have more use.

Excellent feedback. Thank you.

[SwampDweller]

Regarding keeping the carry gun at a low but verified round count, what round count should that be that you get to and then stop? (Other than occasional verification of function). One thousand rounds? Two thousand? At what point should you stop shooting the one you intend to carry and only use the trainer for shooting (besides the exception above)?

I've read DocGKR's standard of not trusting a gun until 1000 failure free shots have been fired through it, along with the late Todd Green's article where he states he sees a pistol as being "long term reliable" after 2k failure-free shots have been fired.