Knight's Armament

[rob_s]

https://www.knightarmco.com/product/commercial-firearms

There may be a thread on them already, but it seems like nothing recent...

Some may not know this, but I wrote one of the first published articles about the SR15 commercial model many years ago. it was based on a pre-production model, and I had several conversations at the time with Trey Knight and others from the company about their desire to get into the commercial AR market.

On another personal note, I was one of the lucky people that got to visit the facility in Florida and tour the museum back when SHOT was in Orlando. I also had all the parts for the "lunchbox" gun when they did that, but foolishly sold the parts off.

Maybe I'm just disconnected from the industry as a whole these days, but it seems like they're kind of off the radar again?

Thoughts?

[WobblyPossum]

Their guns are expensive and they don’t do as much marketing as some of the other manufacturers in that price point so people don’t talk about KAC a lot. I don’t think they were ever very focused on the commercial market as most of their money comes from government contracts. The people shopping for ARs in the KAC price point generally know about them. I remember reading some posts about KAC opening up the gas ports on their 16” and 14.5” commercial guns to improve reliability with the cheap .223 most people shoot and that turned some people off.

[dontshakepandas]

I don't think they are off the radar. I think you don't hear a lot about them because they are expensive and in high demand so availability is even worse than everything else gun related in the last few years. Also, most people on the internet are buying the cheapest shit they can find and are convinced it is just as good so the differences that make KAC special would be completely lost on them.

[Cory]

I remember some years ago John Johnston did a long term review of the SR15 and said that if he had to pick a single off the shelf AR15 to use and know it was good to go, it was the SR15. If I had unlimited funding, an SR15 with a CompM4 would probably be fairly high on my wantsies list. That and an M110 of some flavor.

I bumped into a guy who worked for KAC once, and he seemed like a really good dude. I would absolutely spend money with them, I just don't have instagram famous money.

[Sig_Fiend]

If I had unlimited funding, an SR15 with a CompM4 would probably be fairly high on my wantsies list.

+2

SR15 + CompM4 + LMT enhanced bolt carrier + A5 setup, in my mind at least, seems like it would make for an awesome end-of-the-world carbine. Maybe an LMT AR10 tube (LMP259C) for the rolled threads? Not sure if SR25 tubes (25758) have rolled threads? Not sure if that's too many dwell time modifiers to function reliably in a 16" though.

[Caballoflaco]

+2

SR15 + CompM4 + LMT enhanced bolt carrier + A5 setup, in my mind at least, seems like it would make for an awesome end-of-the-world carbine. Maybe an LMT AR10 tube (LMP259C) for the rolled threads? Not sure if SR25 tubes (25758) have rolled threads? Not sure if that's too many dwell time modifiers to function reliably in a 16" though.

I don’t know why you’d spend that much money on a gun and then tear out the guts of the operating system.

I always thought part of what you’re paying for with KAC was their r&d to get the operating system balanced and working well so that there was no point in adding after market parts from different companies.

[LittleLebowski]

Knights is always there, but their focus is military and LE contracts. Knights makes fantastic turn key rifles.

[theJanitor]

KAC gets their gas right, so no need to change anything in the operating system. I gotta get off my ass and get a MAMS for my SR15

If I had to pick one gun it would be an SR15.

[Sero Sed Serio]

KAC gets their gas right, so no need to change anything in the operating system. I gotta get off my ass and get a MAMS for my SR15

If I had to pick one gun it would be an SR15.

The 5.56 MAMS have been vapor ware for a while. If you stumble across one, don’t hesitate. It may be a while before you find another.

[Sig_Fiend]

I don’t know why you’d spend that much money on a gun and then tear out the guts of the operating system.

I always thought part of what you’re paying for with KAC was their r&d to get the operating system balanced and working well so that there was no point in adding after market parts from different companies.

I didn't say those mods were necessary. I wouldn't take my words too seriously as I tend to take things a bit to their extreme, for fun, if anything. In reality, most of my serious guns are 6920's or DD because, alas, I'm a peasant and can't actually stomach spending over $3k or nearly $4k (at current prices) for one rifle. ;)

I think the SR15 has been more than proven to be perfectly fine out of the box and long-lasting due to the factory enhancements.

[theJanitor]

I didn't say those mods were necessary. I wouldn't take my words too seriously as I tend to take things a bit to their extreme, for fun, if anything. In reality, most of my serious guns are 6920's or DD because, alas, I'm a peasant and can't actually stomach spending over $3k or nearly $4k (at current prices) for one rifle. ;)

I think the SR15 has been more than proven to be perfectly fine out of the box and long-lasting due to the factory enhancements.

Coughing up the dough for a spare bolt, when you'll probably never need one (on my firing schedule), is hard to swallow. But it would suck to have an E3 rifle and a broken bolt and no spare

[M2CattleCo]

The E3 bolt is the deal.

I went through a KAC phase and ended up back with 16” carbine gas Colts because in the end the bolt is replaceable without even needing tools, and KAC has a knack for making easy things hard, making the tools super expensive, and little proprietary pieces unavailable.

Ambi lowers ain’t my jam. At all.

[HCM]

Coughing up the dough for a spare bolt, when you'll probably never need one (on my firing schedule), is hard to swallow. But it would suck to have an E3 rifle and a broken bolt and no spare

Long term, yes, short term, in a pinch, you can use a standard AR bolt in an E3. (Though the reverse is not true).

It's actually one of the things that makes it more attractive than other proprietary systems.

[Wake27]

I don’t think they’re off radar, just look at the prices used ones are going for right now. I’m a huge KAC fanboy but was just getting into it when the panic hit. I’m down to one 11.5 upper and a QDC in jail. Would love to get a lower and then a complete 14.5 at some point along with more QDCs. All of my ARs are wearing KAC MDs as I decided they would be my 5.56 cans. Also hard as balls to find though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[theJanitor]

Long term, yes, short term, in a pinch, you can use a standard AR bolt in an E3. (Though the reverse is not true).

It's actually one of the things that makes it more attractive than other proprietary systems.

Yeah, but since I’m a civilian, and “in a pinch” doesn’t really apply to me, I just got the correct bolt.

[HCM]

Yeah, but since I’m a civilian, and “in a pinch” doesn’t really apply to me, I just got the correct bolt.

Supply chain disruptions are a thing.

[Rex G]

Collectors Firearms, in Houston, a rather high-end place that handles several of the boutique AR/M4 lines, moves new and pre-owned KAC products, regularly. I bought a KAC SR15 lower, there, as a gift for a nephew, a year or two ago. No KAC firearms are listed, on the website, at this moment in time, but I would not doubt that there are some KAC accessories in stock, right now. Collectors lists relatively few of accessories on-line, and many of the newly-acquired firearms are sold to walk-in buyers before the firearms are photographed and/or listed. Plus, if any customers have wish-listed a KAC firearm, the firearm will not be listed for sale, until the customer has had time to respond.

https://www.collectorsfirearms.com/

I have no financial affiliation with this business, other than my wallet being lighter, because of their existence.

Edited to add: I do not consider myself a “fan” of KAC. My wife bought me a pre-owned KAC SR15, to use as a patrol rifle. It had to go back to KAC, because of a machining step that had been skipped, in manufacturing an entire batch. (There were no M4 cuts.) It had feeding problems, so I quickly got PD letterhead, and bought an LE/Government-only Colt AR15 Govt Carbine, in order to be able to attend one of the precious, then-rare patrol rifle cert classes, for which I had been miraculously scheduled. The Colt ran fine, so, I sold the SR15 when it came back from KAC. So, yeah, regardless of its reputation, among the hobbyists, I see KAC being just like any manufacturer, capable of making an egregious QC slip-up.

[RancidSumo]

Collectors Firearms, in Houston, a rather high-end place that handles several of the boutique AR/M4 lines, moves new and pre-owned KAC products, regularly. I bought a KAC SR15 lower, there, as a gift for a nephew, a year or two ago. No KAC firearms are listed, on the website, at this moment in time, but I would not doubt that there are some KAC accessories in stock, right now. Collectors lists relatively few of accessories on-line, and many of the newly-acquired firearms are sold to walk-in buyers before the firearms are photographed and/or listed. Plus, if any customers have wish-listed a KAC firearm, the firearm will not be listed for sale, until the customer has had time to respond.

https://www.collectorsfirearms.com/

I have no financial affiliation with this business, other than my wallet being lighter, because of their existence.

Why did you have to tell me this? I've told myself I'll get an 11.5 KAC next time I see one in stock thinking my wallet would be safe for many months.

[MistWolf]

Collector's Firearms. I didn't spend nearly enough money there while I lived in Texas.

[cosmog]

https://www.knightarmco.com/product/commercial-firearms

There may be a thread on them already, but it seems like nothing recent...

Some may not know this, but I wrote one of the first published articles about the SR15 commercial model many years ago. it was based on a pre-production model, and I had several conversations at the time with Trey Knight and others from the company about their desire to get into the commercial AR market.

On another personal note, I was one of the lucky people that got to visit the facility in Florida and tour the museum back when SHOT was in Orlando. I also had all the parts for the "lunchbox" gun when they did that, but foolishly sold the parts off.

Maybe I'm just disconnected from the industry as a whole these days, but it seems like they're kind of off the radar again?

Thoughts?



They are not off radar, it's just that they have not been working more on there commercial lately

[Sensei]

+2

SR15 + CompM4 + LMT enhanced bolt carrier + A5 setup, in my mind at least, seems like it would make for an awesome end-of-the-world carbine.

Don’t hate me because I’m beautiful…

77908

While I like the LMT enhanced bolt carriers, I don’t see it having any advantage over the E3 bolt and it’s carrier in this gun.

[Bergeron]

Collector's Firearms. I didn't spend nearly enough money there while I lived in Texas.

My God, would it even be possible to spend enough money in Collector's? I left before they got to their new location, and anytime gun nut friends were in town, there we were. I spent my Collector's money in the used 1911 shelves, and on books, but that milsurp section was sure tempting.

[MistWolf]

My God, would it even be possible to spend enough money in Collector's? I left before they got to their new location, and anytime gun nut friends were in town, there we were. I spent my Collector's money in the used 1911 shelves, and on books, but that milsurp section was sure tempting.

It was some years ago. They had racks of 03A3s, a good selection of Les Baer 1911s and an exempt G Series FNFAL that, while expensive, it was within my reach, if only I had realized what I was looking at. I told myself I was doing the responsible thing.

[Bergeron]

Yearight?! What kind of '03 might I prefer- straight stock, s-stock, c-stock, 03, 03A3; all of it, just sitting there, ready to picked up and decided upon.

[M2CattleCo]

+2

SR15 + CompM4 + LMT enhanced bolt carrier + A5 setup, in my mind at least, seems like it would make for an awesome end-of-the-world carbine. Maybe an LMT AR10 tube (LMP259C) for the rolled threads? Not sure if SR25 tubes (25758) have rolled threads? Not sure if that's too many dwell time modifiers to function reliably in a 16" though.


Sample of who knows how many but I’ve seen LMT enhanced BCGs and A5s cause more problems than they ever solved. If they one caused one solitary problem they’d have still caused more problems that they ever solved.

[SLUZENE]

https://www.knightarmco.com/product/commercial-firearms
[...]

Maybe I'm just disconnected from the industry as a whole these days, but it seems like they're kind of off the radar again?

Thoughts?

A: I look up KAC's stuff from time to time. It seems finding anything KAC in 2020/2021 is like trying to find an in stock molle rear slickster from ferro concepts. I've personally lost the drive for now.
B: from research over the years, paying for KAC doesn't seem to give me great odds the rifle will be more accurate, lighter or reliable than 2021 factory options from Daniel Defense or Geissele.

A lot of people remark the 11.5 Geiessele uppers are still very reliable while being "properly gassed" as compared to 11.5 KAC uppers. Subjective from what I hear.

[HCM]

A: I look up KAC's stuff from time to time. It seems finding anything KAC in 2020/2021 is like trying to find an in stock molle rear slickster from ferro concepts. I've personally lost the drive for now.
B: from research over the years, paying for KAC doesn't seem to give me great odds the rifle will be more accurate, lighter or reliable than 2021 factory options from Daniel Defense or Geissele.

A lot of people remark the 11.5 Geiessele uppers are still very reliable while being "properly gassed" as compared to 11.5 KAC uppers. Subjective from what I hear.

Anecdotes about individual personally owned guns aside, I know of two institutional / GOV users of multiple Geissele complete rifles. The reports based on multiple examples in use are mixed. One agency had great results in testing then experienced issues with barrels / accuracy on some of the actual production guns. The other has reported multiple rifles with reliability issues.

"Properly gassed" can also depend on suppressed vs unsuppressed and the back pressure of the suppressor. The above referenced agencies are not running suppressors on their G rifles AFAIK.

[Wake27]

Anecdotes about individual personally owned guns aside, I know of two institutional / GOV users of multiple Geissele complete rifles. The reports based on multiple examples in use are mixed. One agency had great results in testing then experienced issues with barrels / accuracy on some of the actual production guns. The other has reported multiple rifles with reliability issues.

"Properly gassed" can also depend on suppressed vs unsuppressed and the back pressure of the suppressor. The above referenced agencies are not running suppressors on their G rifles AFAIK.

Interesting, I've heard the exact same thing.

[M2CattleCo]

Short dwell time isn’t the boon for reliability that most of the internet thinks it is.

For all of the accusations of ‘lack of innovation’, Colt actually did a LOT of testing and evaluation of the mid-length system before they stated that there was no reliability benefit to it and why they still market the 6920 to institutional users all over the world. When they did release a mid-length, it was .071” ported 16” which is .003” smaller than the most commonly available conservatively ported barrels. Because if there’s anything that Colt doesn’t care about, it’s your .223 ammo and heavy buffer/goofy spring nonsense you screwed to the back of the gun.

[SLUZENE]

Anecdotes about individual personally owned guns aside, I know of two institutional / GOV users of multiple Geissele complete rifles. The reports based on multiple examples in use are mixed. One agency had great results in testing then experienced issues with barrels / accuracy on some of the actual production guns. The other has reported multiple rifles with reliability issues.

"Properly gassed" can also depend on suppressed vs unsuppressed and the back pressure of the suppressor. The above referenced agencies are not running suppressors on their G rifles AFAIK.

Thank you for the feedback and info. I should have said "properly gassed" suppressed. Thank you.