Thumb Safety Discussion

[Bergeron]

I like ‘em! But they’ve got to be done right, and I think that only a few really are.

Motivating pictures. I just got some Glocks back from the ‘smith, and drug then to class the very next day, because what’s a developmental schedule if you aren’t screaming at the end of it?

77279

77280

77281

77282

I’m happy with that, but it took a while to get there. I had first thought, “hey no problem, D&L enhanced levers on a Cominolli system w/ a SCD, and I am good to go!”

Not so. No criticisms, at all, of either Mr. Cominolli or Mr. Lauck (who provide excellent service & communication to customers!) but my problem was the “off-safe position” of the safety. For me, with Glocks, it needs to be close to the slide/frame interface, and parallel to that slide-frame line. The stock Cominolli points down in off-safe, no good for me, and it turned out that the stock D&L, while parallel, was too low. I just couldn’t get my left hand on the gun.

But that’s why we have gunsmiths, yes? 1911s are kind of the world’s standard for thumb safety ergonomics, and the M&P (particularly the .45) is excellent. I get along wonderfully with the USP levers, I’m ok with the P30, am suspicious of the P320, I have no experience with the CZ or SIG P22X, and strongly doubt kind of anyone else.

I tried stuff, but I was also nomadic, which hurts experimental gunsmithing. One guy put shelves on the Cominollis- great, but the angles were still wrong. Another guy got the “parallel-slide-frame-safety, and high enough” down, but those parts were delicate, and too wide. The last guy did great. I can’t imagine ambidexterity, but I’d love to experience it.

I like a thumb safety, but I’d rather nothing than a crummy one. How about ya’ll?

[GearFondler]

Based only on the pics it looks like you ended up with an excellent solution!
How's the action? Crisp or mushy?

[Bergeron]

Mushy! ;)

No perfect solutions, and I'll say that "action feel" doesn't matter much to me. I smash hard when I off-safe, and when I on safe. You should hopefully be able to see the drag marks on the frames. They don't "click-click", but so much as "slide-thunk" into place. I'm happy with that.

[GearFondler]

Mushy! ;)

No perfect solutions, and I'll say that "action feel" doesn't matter much to me. I smash hard when I off-safe, and when I on safe. You should hopefully be able to see the drag marks on the frames. They don't "click-click", but so much as "slide-thunk" into place. I'm happy with that.For me the issue would be less the feel and more about whether it was secure enough to stay on safe when carried.

[MickAK]

For me the issue would be less the feel and more about whether it was secure enough to stay on safe when carried.

Kinda seems like an escalator becoming stairs thing unless I missed something in the design.

[Bergeron]

An excellent point. I had the thumb safety smith also modify my holsters to retain the thumb safety in the “on-safe” position. I intend to neither take chances nor miss out on the benefits:

77292

Holsters are Dale Fricke, G34 w/TLR-8AG.

I’d do terrible things for an OEM ambi thumb safety solution, but I can dream on.

[GearFondler]

Kinda seems like an escalator becoming stairs thing unless I missed something in the design.Since it's a Glock, then yes... Off safe it's just a stock Glock.

[TheNewbie]

How do you like these vs the M&P safety? You mentioned the .45, is the safety better on that vs other M&Ps?



These do look good, and it make me wish even more that Glock would do something safety wise.

[Bergeron]

The M&P is ambi, which I like better than the single-side that I have. Other than that, the shapes and locations feel pretty similar. Maybe for the M&P .45, it's the frame size as well as the safeties. My understanding is that Ernest Langdon played an important role in the M&P .45 thumb safety design.

For using the Glocks in class, the safeties were nothing I had to really consciously think about manipulating. They went off as I built my grip, and on as I broke my grip. Holstering a thumb safety Glock with a SCD is nice.

[revchuck38]

Pardon the slight drift…I’ve got two M&P45s with thumb safeties and came up on 1911s, and never really understood the complaints about the M&P safeties. I’ve never used the 9x19/.40 version with thumb safeties, though.

[Yute]

Looks more usable than the M17 safety.

[HeavyDuty]

Looks more usable than the M17 safety.

I have a MS equipped M18, and I’m finding the safety to be agreeable. I’m hoping it will slick up a little more with use, but even now it’s fine.

[Bergeron]

I am curious to see how the broad base of M17/M18 users find the safeties.

I really wanted both a thumb safety and a hammer/SCD.

[JHC]

The M&P is ambi, which I like better than the single-side that I have. Other than that, the shapes and locations feel pretty similar. Maybe for the M&P .45, it's the frame size as well as the safeties. My understanding is that Ernest Langdon played an important role in the M&P .45 thumb safety design.

For using the Glocks in class, the safeties were nothing I had to really consciously think about manipulating. They went off as I built my grip, and on as I broke my grip. Holstering a thumb safety Glock with a SCD is nice.

I love a good thumb safety also. I never tried an M&P 45 with one, but I did not like the M&P Compact 9mm Gen 2 thumb safety dimensions and position at all.

This is really neat. I too wish Glock had such an OEM offering. I'd vote they model it after the EGW overbuilt beast I just had Derr Precision fit to my LW Operator. I love that thing and may convert others to it.

[Bergeron]

Yeah, I've never shot a thumb safety on a M&P 9 or 40, and I've only ever even held the full-size M&P guns.

A positive thing about ambi stuff that I only really first noticed when I had an outing with a M&P .45 was that my straight, high trigger finger helped on-safe the gun, and made manipulating the safety super slick. Same thing dropping the slide, I could keep my grip, and with a "pinching" sort of motion, get the slide stop with both thumb and index finger. Nothing like that for these Glocks, but I'm still happy.

I've never gotten into the guts of a M&P, but considering S&W's old "SD" semi-glock clones, I would think (hope!) that some sort of M&P-ish solution would work for Glock safeties. Maybe not, though, because Glock's thumb safety solution for the MHS solicitation did not appear to the have the sort of robust engineering that I was hoping to see, and it looks like Glock got dinged for that on the evaluation of their submission.

EGW and Mr. Derr are both top-of-the-line, compliments on your fine taste!

[APS-PF]

I find the M&P 2.0 thumb safety to have a limp action. Also for my hands, riding the safety puts my thumb base joint right at the corner of the frame and it's painful within a few rounds.
The P320 safety has a firm action and I don't have any issues riding the safety. Unfortunately, it's attached to a P320.

[Hot Sauce]

I find the M&P 2.0 thumb safety to have a limp action. Also for my hands, riding the safety puts my thumb base joint right at the corner of the frame and it's painful within a few rounds.
The P320 safety has a firm action and I don't have any issues riding the safety. Unfortunately, it's attached to a P320.
Because of tolerance variations I've seen in a variety of thumb safety guns, I made it a policy to generally always get hands on at the FFL, go through several examples they stock, and pick out the one with the best tolerances.

I had the same model M&P once where one example had the safety be super positive and clicky, and the other example had no holding power and would go to unsafe if you sneezed on it. That's how I learned that lesson.

If you choose to, you can also carefully deepen the engagement notch on the M&P safety with a small file.

[TheNewbie]

If the M&P had a thumb safety like the one on the 92x, I would be all in on the M&P.


The Ruger American thumb safety looks pretty decent.....but it’s a Ruger American. No idea if they are great guns or not, but I doubt there are a lot of high round count ones out there to give us some data.

[APS-PF]

If you choose to, you can also carefully deepen the engagement notch on the M&P safety with a small file.

Yes I did work on this a bit but stopped after I considered the long term affects of thousands and thousands of rounds beating up my thumb joint. Ultimately I gave up on the thumb safety quest and am back to Glock/SCD.

[Hot Sauce]

Yes I did work on this a bit but stopped after I considered the long term affects of thousands and thousands of rounds beating up my thumb joint. Ultimately I gave up on the thumb safety quest and am back to Glock/SCD.

Understandable. In the end of it all, our hand size/shape is a constant and the gun is a variable. Just like some hands fit Glocks well and others don't, M&Ps/1911s/etc are not immune to this either.

[TheNewbie]

Yes I did work on this a bit but stopped after I considered the long term affects of thousands and thousands of rounds beating up my thumb joint. Ultimately I gave up on the thumb safety quest and am back to Glock/SCD.

That’s kind of the debate I’m constantly in. If I ever return to striker fired, it will be either Glock or M&P.


The M&P has a lot of things I like, and does have an ok TS option, but not a great one. Not for me anyway.

The Glock has endless support, NY triggers for those like me and the SCD. However, I would rather have a good TS and I have no idea if SCDs will be produced again.

[TheNewbie]

Handled a Ruger American with a thumb safety. While I might skip the Ruger auto, the thumb safety was well done.


If Glock only did one. It even felt better than the M&P in my limited time with the Ruger.

[Bergeron]

Liking thumb safeties is akin to liking double action, nowadays. There’s a few quality choices, but it’s not the standard, and it’ll never be as popular or as intensely supported.

My first pistol was a USP9F, that I carried de-cocked and on-safe 15 years back. I imagine I might have difference preferences now if I had gotten a circa-2005 Gen3 Glock 17 and built years of habits and experience that way, instead.

[ccmdfd]

Yes I did work on this a bit but stopped after I considered the long term affects of thousands and thousands of rounds beating up my thumb joint. Ultimately I gave up on the thumb safety quest and am back to Glock/SCD.

I've had pain/discomfort in my thumb joints with some thumb safeties. I've been taught "ride the safety, ride the safety!!!"

Recently saw a video on the Wilson Combat YouTube channel where they talked about the benefits of a low thumb grip, completely off the safety. One of the big benefits is that it makes it much easier to deactivate the grip safety, and that's an issue I've has with many 1911s.

It's got me rethinking trying 1911s again and using a low thumb grip. That should also reduce any discomfort from the safety.

[krav51]

I've had pain/discomfort in my thumb joints with some thumb safeties. I've been taught "ride the safety, ride the safety!!!"

Recently saw a video on the Wilson Combat YouTube channel where they talked about the benefits of a low thumb grip, completely off the safety. One of the big benefits is that it makes it much easier to deactivate the grip safety, and that's an issue I've has with many 1911s.

It's got me rethinking trying 1911s again and using a low thumb grip. That should also reduce any discomfort from the safety.

or pick up a wilson edc x9:) I never had an issue engaging the grip safety during range sessions or matches but once i started doing force on force it wasn't uncommon to not get that perfect master grip resulting in the safety not being all the way engaged. The Wilson was a great(although expensive ) solution that made me switch back to 1911"s for carry from Glocks with Cominolli safeties.

[spinmove_]

That’s kind of the debate I’m constantly in. If I ever return to striker fired, it will be either Glock or M&P.


The M&P has a lot of things I like, and does have an ok TS option, but not a great one. Not for me anyway.

The Glock has endless support, NY triggers for those like me and the SCD. However, I would rather have a good TS and I have no idea if SCDs will be produced again.


Erm, I’ve been out of the loop around here for a bit, but SCDs aren’t being produced anymore? When did that happen and why?

[TheNewbie]

Erm, I’ve been out of the loop around here for a bit, but SCDs aren’t being produced anymore? When did that happen and why?

I don’t know that they are not, but the man behind the SCD has not been active here for a while, and there is not much response from his website.


He’s a super nice guy, who does put the customer first and will do the right thing, so I’m sure there is a good reason for all of this, but still, there is no real way to know about the future of the SCD at this time.


It’s been posted that he’s doing well, which is the most important thing, and I’m sure we will get news about the SCD. Just don’t know when.

[spinmove_]

I don’t know that they are not, but the man behind the SCD has not been active here for a while, and there is not much response from his website.


He’s a super nice guy, who does put the customer first and will do the right thing, so I’m sure there is a good reason for all of this, but still, there is no real way to know about the future of the SCD at this time.


It’s been posted that he’s doing well, which is the most important thing, and I’m sure we will get news about the SCD. Just don’t know when.

Ok, fair enough. I just wasn’t sure if there was a major announcement that went out or whatever. The site lists all options as sold out with no indication of when stock will be replenished. It’s a small company obviously and if he’s busy with real life things then it is what it is. Such is life.

The concept of the SCD was the thing that got me thinking about the overall safety view of carrying a pistol and what goes into that. I know carrying a Glock without one can be safe, but I also fully acknowledge that it’s a system that requires the end user to be more aware more of the time and is less forgiving of being human. These days I much prefer having a thumb safety, an external hammer I can thumb, or a completely DAO option to carry than just about anything striker fired without any external stimuli.

[Bergeron]

Yeah, the striker gun without SCD is my least favorite, from a safety and holstering perspective, and the thumb-safety-plus-hammer/SCD is my favorite, on the other end of that spectrum.

Lots of very smart (smarter than me) and capable (more capable than me) people make excellent arguments for pistols without thumb safeties, and I do not wan to argue with them, at all. My sister has a SCD G19.4 that she is totally satisfied with, and that really is enough. But.

But I started with an excellent thumb safety gun- a USP. I then went into 1911s, and I'll always keep and have several of them. I still want to be a part of and experience the modern, polymer-lightweight, double-stack and dotted 9mm pistol, while retaining all this stuff. The USP is still relevant, the P30 would be an excellent solution, and I do find the P229 SAO interesting- but. The Glock ecosystem/universe is the most extensive-by far, and I still want to have rimfire slides, easy magazine and holster availability, and just general third party support. So.

I think I found a solution that for the thumb safety that I can live with. I'd love it if the concept could grow to ambidexterity, but I'd rather just own and shoot these guns and go experiment with other stuff for a while (I've got a desk loaded down with almost-everything for a cool PCC, and I really want a stupid-big-bore AK) while enjoying these guns.

[GearFondler]

Yeah, the striker gun without SCD is my least favorite, from a safety and holstering perspective, and the thumb-safety-plus-hammer/SCD is my favorite, on the other end of that spectrum.

Lots of very smart (smarter than me) and capable (more capable than me) people make excellent arguments for pistols without thumb safeties, and I do not wan to argue with them, at all. My sister has a SCD G19.4 that she is totally satisfied with, and that really is enough. But.

But I started with an excellent thumb safety gun- a USP. I then went into 1911s, and I'll always keep and have several of them. I still want to be a part of and experience the modern, polymer-lightweight, double-stack and dotted 9mm pistol, while retaining all this stuff. The USP is still relevant, the P30 would be an excellent solution, and I do find the P229 SAO interesting- but. The Glock ecosystem/universe is the most extensive-by far, and I still want to have rimfire slides, easy magazine and holster availability, and just general third party support. So.

I think I found a solution that for the thumb safety that I can live with. I'd love it if the concept could grow to ambidexterity, but I'd rather just own and shoot these guns and go experiment with other stuff for a while (I've got a desk loaded down with almost-everything for a cool PCC, and I really want a stupid-big-bore AK) while enjoying these guns.You had to jump through many hoops to get what you wanted but you did it and it looks to be done right. I have zero doubt that if what you have right there was easily available to the rest of us that it would be very popular.

[Bergeron]

Thank you!

I'd like to be clear that while it took a long time to arrive at this final solution, the last gunsmith and parts setup was actually quick and straightforward. You would need:

1) Cominolli Thumb Safety Kit

2) D&L Enhanced Thumb Lever

3) Gunsmith

I don't know if my guy would like to do more, or not- his apprentice, who was heavily involved, is off at a First Responder training, and I don't expect him back until the first bit of 2022. But they did a quick and great job. Multiple other gunsmiths were not as successful, but there was definitely a learning curve on my part as far as what I needed to communicate to them. As one smith put it: "Dude, I'm a gunsmith, not a structural engineer".

This is all so achievable, I just wish that Glock would get over their "Perfection" (yeah, right, and I wish the sun and moon would get over eclipses ;)) and offer us factory optional, modular thumb safties and SCDs.

PS- I got a G19 w/TLR-8 JMCK shell for Enigma-Light-Bearing, and an Enigma Light Bearing Kit. My local indoor range is partnered with a "real custom" Kydex holster shop, so I plan to turn over the guns, Enigmas, holsters, and whole damn-kit-and-kaboodle to see if we can arrive at an final place of carrying these silly guns with lights and lasers and SCDs and thumb safeties all in an Enigma. I have high hopes.