New Girsan Hi-Power clone announced

[757_Magnum]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2021/09/14/eaa-girsan-mc-p35/

Thoughts? I don't know much about Girsan other than what I skimmed over in the review thread posted here:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?35635-Girsan-Regard

Of any guns that I regret selling, a pristine low round count MKIII Hi-Power is at the top of my list. I think I bought it for $500 from a small dealer at a gun show, and I was happy with the profit when I sold it for a couple hundred more when I was going back to Glocks. I've been yearning for a Hi-Power ever since they were discontinued. I've been seeing beat up Israelis and FMs going for $500 to $600 lately, but street price for these seems to be just over $400. At that price, I might be willing to overlook the billboard urging me to RTFM.

[Joe in PNG]

Hopefully, Cylinder & Slide will offer a similar package for these as they do for the Tisas copies.

[MattyD380]

When I hold my MKIII… I’m inclined to ask why the world needed another service pistol.

I think it’s cool the world is getting another P35 option. Still, I would of course prefer the genuine article. Are these “licensed” copies? I don’t think the Tisas version was (is). Not sure about the FEGs.

[Paul D]

About 15 years ago, I bought a new model FNH Hi-Power. I had a smith put new tritium sights, stipple the grips, put on nice wood grips, do a trigger job and refinished it with Robar. I gave it to one of my closest friends for a big birthday of his. They were like $500 back then. I loved that gun, but I loved him more. Now that fucking SOB won't sell it back to me every time I see him. I leave his house every time screaming: "I hate you! See you for dinner next week". These days you can't a decent shooter without paying 3 times that much. If one shows up at my LGS, I'm buying it.

[TiroFijo]

I like this clone, but it has the meat tenderizing hammer...

It is not a licensed copy, the patents expired eons ago and the turks have a thing for cloning guns. It looks pretty similar though, and probably can take the original or existing aftemarket parts.

A CZ75 is a much better practical option.

[fatdog]

Glad to see a version back in production. If as previously mentioned C&S will adapt their parts for it, or better yet like the Argy FM clones it is so close to original spec it accepts the C&S parts that will tempt me to buy one as another project gun.

[4RNR]

Wasn't there another one a few years ago or was that just under a different importer?

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[JonInWA]

Nothing against Cylinder & Slide, but even with their excellent reputation and history wth the High Power, these days I'd send it to BH Spring Solutions first for a thorough analysis and re-do as necessary. My major concern with Girsan/Tisas (or for that matter ANY of the High Power clones) is 1) the intrinsic quality of the metallurgy, 2) the manufacturing quality, 3) the intrinsic quality and dimensions of the components, and 4) the manufacturer's aftermarket support.

Best, Jo

[FrankB]

Nothing against Cylinder & Slide, but even with their excellent reputation and history wth the High Power, these days I'd send it to BH Spring Solutions first for a thorough analysis and re-do as necessary. My major concern with Girsan/Tisas (or for that matter ANY of the High Power clones) is 1) the intrinsic quality of the metallurgy, 2) the manufacturing quality, 3) the intrinsic quality and dimensions of the components, and 4) the manufacturer's aftermarket support.

Best, Jo

That whacky The Yankee Marshall on YouTube switched all of his High Power parts into a Tisas, and I think all but one fit and functioned. BH Springs suggests replacing a few Tisas parts that wear quickly. I was this close to buying one, but then they disappeared.

[alohadoug]

The original BHP nor any of the clones are "Mass Approved" which means a dealer can only sell ones that were made pre-1994 and in the state pre-1994. I can get one through a private sale but they're rare and expensive. Then I saw an Argentine copy at my local dealer on Tueaday. He wanted (seller was asking) $1200. I thought maybe I'd make an offer. Went in today and it was gone. Someone paid asking price.

I wish I could get an importer to submit a version of Mass compliance.

[Joe in PNG]

I like the idea of an optics equipped Hi-Power, but really don't want to have my Browning chopped on.
This may be a way to do just that, but without ruining the original.

[medmo]

Oh, dang. If this pistol is all Browning P35 spec'ed I'm all in. I could even accept the giant 'MADE IN TURKEY" stamp on it.

[Inkwell 41]

I like the idea of an optics equipped Hi-Power, but really don't want to have my Browning chopped on.
This may be a way to do just that, but without ruining the original.

Something along these lines?

MK3 Firearms

[Tokarev]

Hopefully these will be a market success. At least enough of a success to stick around awhile. LKCI didn't seem to have much luck with the Regent BR9 for whatever reason. The Regent seemed to generate some market interest but they just couldn't pull it all together for some reason.

Anyway, I'm glad to see this version appears to have corrected that funky grip tang radius on the other Turkish gun. Hopefully they did other stuff right like across the board parts compatibility and sight dovetails based on the late FN pattern and not the weird Novak but not Novak of the other gun.



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[Tokarev]

Link to EAA site:

https://eaacorp.com/product/girsan-mc-p35/#iLightbox

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[oss117]

I wonder if this one will have the firing pin block.

[MattyD380]

I remember reading this about the Tisas BR9:

"The Tisas Extractor Claw design has been modified, apparently to accommodate dimensional deviations in the Tisas HP slide that do not conform to the Hi Power’s original blueprints. A fracture in this part, at the area where the Tisas Extractor’s Claw meets the body of the Extractor, occurred within the first 1,000 rounds of testing (see picture bellow)."

https://bhspringsolutions.com/index.php/tisas-regent-br9-6000-round-tisas-regent-br9-hi-power-test/

They show the difference in the extractors, on that page.

I kinda took at as, "Okay, it's not actually a 100% honest copy." I guess I'd be open to a non-FN Hi Power--as long as I knew it was a legit clone.

[Tokarev]

Some decent pics contained in this link.

https://www.guns.com/news/reviews/a-closer-look-at-the-girsan-mc-p35-hi-power-clone

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[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/560z3DywTBk

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[MattyD380]

Well, it didn't have any FTEs. I also saw something about a 10,000 round endurance test at the end of the video.

Do we think this one may be closer to actual FN spec than the SA-35 or the Tisas?

[Tokarev]

Well, it didn't have any FTEs. I also saw something about a 10,000 round endurance test at the end of the video.

Do we think this one may be closer to actual FN spec than the SA-35 or the Tisas?Who knows what spec these are built to? Were they made simply to meet a price point? If so then they probably won't have much QC. At least the grip tang and general angles look right. The Tisas guns had some weird radius lines on the frame. The rear of the slide was also not as rounded as the real FN guns.

I do find it interesting that the Hungarians were able to produce an unlicensed copy some decades ago that seems to have stood the test of time. Not that these guns have seen hard military use but they did appear to have seen some police and prison duty use in Israel and probably a few other places. The FÉG guns seem to be pretty consistent with regard to quality over their lifespan. Early guns with the small rounded front sight seem to be particularly nice. Later guns got a little rough as can be expected when price becomes a major consideration. Anyway, the FÉG was the basis for the Charles Daly HP that was sold as "US made." Slides, frames, etc were brought in and finished here by either Magnum Research or Dan Wesson. Probably pretty much a similar thing is going on with the Springfield guns although we don't know country(ies) of origin for the basic parts.

Another unlicensed copy that we may encounter is the Bulgarian Arcus. These are HP inside but not outside. Parts will interchange from what I've read. But I've never seen one in person.

Less common is probably the Indian copy. Some speculated that these were built on surplus Canadian equipment but that's probably just wishful thinking.



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[Bucky]

When I hold my MKIII… I’m inclined to ask why the world needed another service pistol.

I think it’s cool the world is getting another P35 option. Still, I would of course prefer the genuine article. Are these “licensed” copies? I don’t think the Tisas version was (is). Not sure about the FEGs.

Patents expire, so why would it need to be licensed?

Also, and this is only my opinion, I think the High Power is over rated. It was a marvel of its time, but has been far surpassed in every practical way (nostalgia not withstanding).

[Tokarev]

Are these “licensed” copies?

AFAIK the only pistols produced with techincal data exchange with FN are the Inglis (Canadian) and the FM (Argentinian) guns. All the rest are unlicensed/reverse engineered copies.

[Stephanie B]

AFAIK the only pistols produced with techincal data exchange with FN are the Inglis (Canadian) and the FM (Argentinian) guns. All the rest are unlicensed/reverse engineered copies.

I heard that the Indian guns were/are built with FN’s data.

[Tokarev]

I heard that the Indian guns were/are built with FN’s data.I've seen some of that discussed on other boards. Another theory is these were built with assistance from John Inglis and Company out of Canada. Anything is possible.

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[Stephanie B]

I am interested, but I have heard that EAA’s customer service makes Taurus’s look top-shelf.

[Tokarev]

I am interested, but I have heard that EAA’s customer service makes Taurus’s look top-shelf.I'm interested too but more out of curiosity and a desire to accumulate BHPs vs using the Girsan as some type of hard-use pistol.

I really don't know how all these clones will play out but I'd suggest you buy a surplus FN from DWJ Imports or Mach 1 while you can if you want a Hi-Power for an actual shooter. They will actually hold their value and/or will be a good base to have sights changed, etc without devaluing someone's minty Browning Arms specimen.

Regarding the Indian guns; if you've ever actually seen one, you'd see it is pretty unlikely they are assembled with any FN input. Guns appear essentially hand made but not in a good way. More an advanced collector's novelty vs a gun worth owning as a shooter in my opinion.

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[Stephanie B]

I really don't know how all these clones will play out but I'd suggest you buy a surplus FN from DWJ Imports or Mach 1 while you can if you want a Hi-Power for an actual shooter. They will actually hold their value and/or will be a good base to have sights changed, etc without devaluing someone's minty Browning Arms specimen.
I have an ex-IDF Mk.III that’s riding in a Cozy Partner holster as I type this.

[Tokarev]

I have an ex-IDF Mk.III that’s riding in a Cozy Partner holster as I type this.Good.

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[JonInWA]

An interesting point will be if both the Girsan and the Springfield are essentially basically sourced from the same manufacturer...

At this point, I'm feeling that either of the new High Powers require a mandatory visit to BH Spring Solutions, or an older FN gun unless its BNIB would likely benefit from the same, or with the owner holistically thoroughly re-springing with one of the BH Spring Solutions kits.

Best, Jon

[Tokarev]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJPkH34cWl8

[RAM Engineer]

The online EAA/Girsan ad in my latest American Rifleman email *SEEMS* to indicate a version with a rail, flat trigger, magwell and fiberoptic front sight available.

[Tokarev]

The online EAA/Girsan ad in my latest American Rifleman email *SEEMS* to indicate a version with a rail, flat trigger, magwell and fiberoptic front sight available.Nice!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220118/5d4447ec0435435b52b4774d5dc01261.jpg



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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220118/2f82f3b8b377e56911f8f0f0c2d6d3b6.jpg

[RAM Engineer]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/01/19/shot-2022-eaa-girsan-mc-p35-year-hi-power/

There it is...

[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/gBg4CqRZYro

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[Tokarev]

BH videos.


https://youtu.be/RfWM8P4BB9M



https://youtu.be/TeLzi2HIzSc

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[RAM Engineer]

For those of us without the patience to sit through multiple BH videos, what is the EXSUM?

[Tokarev]

For those of us without the patience to sit through multiple BH videos, what is the EXSUM?They're probably okay.

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[Lester Polfus]

For those of us without the patience to sit through multiple BH videos, what is the EXSUM?

I have been following all this with rapt interest and have come to two conclusions: 1) I should have bought my friend Tommy The Gun Pimp’s Novak HP when I had the chance and 2) if I want a BHP for anything other than Indiana Jones cosplay right now, I should spend the money on a real FN (not the new ones).

I might revise that opinion after the SA35 has been out 5 years or so.

[Stephanie B]

I have been following all this with rapt interest and have come to two conclusions: 1) I should have bought my friend Tommy The Gun Pimp’s Novak HP when I had the chance and 2) if I want a BHP for anything other than Indiana Jones cosplay right now, I should spend the money on a real FN (not the new ones).

I don’t get the Indiana Jones reference. I thought he had either a .44 (or .455) N-frame or a Webley.

[alohadoug]

I don’t get the Indiana Jones reference. I thought he had either a .44 N-frame or a Webley.

He had a Hi Power in the bar in Nepal.

[Lester Polfus]

I don’t get the Indiana Jones reference. I thought he had either a .44 (or .455) N-frame or a Webley.

For the most part that is correct. But during the Nepal bar shootout and later on board the M/V Bantu Wind he packs (http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Raiders_of_the_Lost_Ark#FN_Hi-Power) a BHP.

[Tokarev]

May 2022 issue of American Rifleman had a decent write-up on the Girsan. The gun ran fine for the author and proved to be decently accurate. I think the best group at 25 yards was 2.5" with most being 3" to 3.5" Overall.

It may have been mentioned in the article but I'm curious about the sights. Does the Girsan use FN MKIII dovetails? It would be nice if this is the case since some aftermarket options are available.

I do find it interesting that the Girsan appears to lift the firing pin block right out of the FN. Springfield skipped this with the SA-35. It would seem a heavier firing pin spring would be the easier workaround from a machining standpoint, etc.

Curious to see how these guns are over the long haul and if they are consistent from batch to batch, etc. I don't really need one but I might pick one up at some point. Especially if I can find a decent price on a used one or something.

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[Stephanie B]

I do find it interesting that the Girsan appears to lift the firing pin block right out of the FN. Springfield skipped this with the SA-35. It would seem a heavier firing pin spring would be the easier workaround from a machining standpoint, etc.

Might that have something to do with import rules?

[Tokarev]

Might that have something to do with import rules?Maybe although I don't believe the Tisas has an active firing pin block.

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[Tokarev]

Not aluminum frame as he says at about two minutes in. Pretty sure these are steel frame.

I disagree when he says the Hi-Power is under sung throughout history. Just because it may not be as well known as the Glock or 1911 in the US doesn't mean one of the most successful handgun designs in world history is under sung.

Anyway:


https://youtu.be/ruzfKEu9ouw

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[Tokarev]

It looks like EAA has officially announced a couple new models. Both with an adjustable rear sight and beavertail. One with a rail and one without.

I don't like the looks of the beavertail. It seems overly long. But it probably wouldn't be a huge deal to saw half an inch off and then clean things up with a file and some sandpaper.

https://eaacorp.com/product/girsan-mc-p35-match-ops/

[Chuck Whitlock]

^^^^^

Most of the high-end custom beavertails added to BHPs look long....until the hammer is cocked.

I'm not sure why they don't have at least one photograph showing that.

Here's one review of the OPS one:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o43DR8EzjUM

[Tokarev]

Now available with optic cut:

https://eaacorp.com/product/girsan-mc-p35-optic/#

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[45dotACP]

Now available with optic cut:

https://eaacorp.com/product/girsan-mc-p35-optic/#

Sent from my SM-G970U using TapatalkProbably won't buy it, but it does bring a smile to my face.

It's time to drag the p35 by it's ears into the future.

Behold ye church of JMB and despair!

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[Tokarev]

Probably won't buy it, but it does bring a smile to my face.

It's time to drag the p35 by it's ears into the future.

Behold ye church of JMB and despair!

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No rear sight. But it looks like there's room to cut something like a Glock dovetail if desired.

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[Chuck Whitlock]

No rear sight. But it looks like there's room to cut something like a Glock dovetail if desired.

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It appears that the rear of the optic body has a notch and two dots either side. Whether they mate up with the front.....

[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/IO72z7JDfBA

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[Tokarev]

Note the "detective" model in the ad:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221223/9cb99c472a835d1756ac4591fe230560.jpg

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[backtrail540]

I handled one and it was shit.

Trigger unlike any other I've felt. Not bad per se, but different.

The safety lever on the other hand seemed impossible to work while gripping the pistol. No shelf and very tight to the frame. It seemed as if i couldn't manipulate without shifting my grip quite a bit. It was stiff as well but i imagine that would wear in.

Grip shape was meh but I'm used to plastic fantastics and cz's that are better. Sights were fine.

For me there isn't any appeal here. Unless you're nostalgic, i imagine you're better off elsewhere with modern designs. But it may be fun to shoot for all i know. Dry handling didn't leave me with that impression though.

[Tokarev]

https://www.facebook.com/100064627272195/posts/527318246099080/?flite=scwspnss

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[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/N8kteG-_mYc

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[Moped]

They’ve also come out with a compact version.

https://eaacorp.com/product/girsan-mc-p35-pi/

[Moped]

Oops!

[Tokarev]

They’ve also come out with a compact version.

https://eaacorp.com/product/girsan-mc-p35-pi/Yep. Supposed to have railed versions of the compact coming too.

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[Pit]

And an alloy framed Compact too.

[Tokarev]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230318/3c5e3fff14eec58aed70f9d777b9d852.jpg

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[krav51]

Yep. Supposed to have railed versions of the compact coming too.

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No optics ready carry version? WTH

[Notorious E.O.C.]

No optics ready carry version? WTH

Girsan heard you:

https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/low-profile-high-powers-eaa-s-girsan-mcp35-pi-ops/

[fatdog]

Sounds like they did everything right, except sheild optic footprint? Really???? I mean the target must be the US Civilian market for this thing.

[Joe in PNG]

Sounds like they did everything right, except sheild optic footprint? Really???? I mean the target must be the US Civilian market for this thing.

Who else would they be selling to?

[Tokarev]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REepsRbQJkY


https://youtu.be/oK4dAjeBPJ4?si=-jn191ANYEJ2L7Wb

[Chuck Whitlock]

My interest in this is almost purely because of the beavertail.

I also noticed in some of the above videos that the Girsan design incorporates the firing pin safety like my MKIII. Another plus.

It recently occurred to me that the protrusion at the bottom-of-the-frontstrap / front-of-the-magwell might play well with the poly Beretta floorplates without having to grind them down.

This came to mind when I saw this on Apex Tactical's site regarding their Hi-Power magazines:

Does Not Fit These Guns

Not compatible with the new 2022 model FN High PowerTM

Does not fit the Girsan MC P35 OPS/Match series pistols

[Tokarev]

Does not fit the Girsan MC P35 OPS/Match series pistols

I assume, without having actually seen these, that it would be a fairly easy deal to modify the base plate to work. Or maybe Apex will come out with a specific version.

I do see a couple new BHP products on the Apex site. One is a new trigger kit that includes a spur hammer. It looks somewhat like later FN production but is more upswept. And then there is a new extractor that may be the cure for extractor problems with the SA-35?

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[Chuck Whitlock]

Possibly. I am thinking about picking up a couple of the magazines to try out.

That trigger kit isn't compatible with the MKIII, so I saved myself $200. :cool:

I am considering bobbing the hammer spur or replacing it outright. Need to shoot it more before deciding.

[Tokarev]

A good price here, it would seem.

https://www.cdnnsports.com/eaa-high-power-mc-p35-9mm-black-and-gray.html

[Tokarev]

Apex Tactical is selling a Girsan trigger kit:

https://www.apextactical.com/action-enhancement-kit-for-girsan-high-power-pistols-mc-p35-series-tank-tread-hammer

[Timbonez]

It appears that Apex Tactical is another viable, albeit limited, source to keep BHP clones relevant. I truly do love the BHP design and wish it enjoyed even a fraction of the support/aftermarket that the 1911 has.

I helped a buddy install Apex parts on his SA-35 at the beginning of the year and it was a huge improvement to the workhorse design.

[Joe in PNG]

This looks really cool: Girsan MCP35 Optics Ready 3.8" $545.89 (https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/157309/european+american+armory+girsan+mcp35+pi+lw+ops+hi gh+power+9mm+3.8+black+optic+ready+15+1)