The Clipdraw: can anyone speak to how they’ve fared in FoF training?

[Hstanton1]

If this is in the wrong sub forum please let me know.

An individual in a certain Facebook group has been making claims about how well his clipdraw/trigger guard combo has worked in grappling, and I’m looking for some more data points surrounding that claim, which I am admittedly fairly skeptical of. Have any of you seen or personally used a clipdraw in a class like ECQC? How did it do?

Thanks in advance.

[willie]

If this is in the wrong sub forum please let me know.

An individual in a certain Facebook group has been making claims about how well his clipdraw/trigger guard combo has worked in grappling, and I’m looking for some more data points surrounding that claim, which I am admittedly fairly skeptical of. Have any of you seen or personally used a clipdraw in a class like ECQC? How did it do?

Thanks in advance.

I"m a non grappler. I have tried two different models of these and see no provision preventing another to gain control of the weapon. Once the other guy has it, all he has to do is jerk. A string attaches holster to belt and jerking will free the pistol. I now use one of these to serve as a trigger guard for a night stand Glock. I gave the other one away to a friend so he could use it in the same fashion. Perhaps the model referred to is different.

[Kirk]

I'll be interested to read the replies. I've never tried one grappling, but I'm just kind of uncomfortable using a holster without a trigger guard. I can't see this as being much better than any other holster/carrying system in FoF, but again, no experience with one.

[JCN]

I have tried a Clipdraw on an LCP, a P32, a G42, LC9S and a Taurus Curve.

Most of the time it rides too low and makes a draw very difficult. I suppose that could help retention but at expense of the draw so I’m not sure that’s a good trade off.

It’s also very inconsistent with regards to gun placement as the high pivot point means the grip could go anywhere.

[BehindBlueI's]

SouthNarc demonstrates very positive weapon retention with no holster at all, showing that if one has the skill (and is conscious and able) hardware is very much a secondary concern. Maybe the fellow bragging about the clipdraw is just that good? I don't know how much difference between it and any number of open top friction retention only holsters would be.

[Hstanton1]

SouthNarc demonstrates very positive weapon retention with no holster at all, showing that if one has the skill (and is conscious and able) hardware is very much a secondary concern. Maybe the fellow bragging about the clipdraw is just that good? I don't know how much difference between it and any number of open top friction retention only holsters would be.

He may well be that good, but I figured I’d post here and try to get some more opinions on his statement.

The gun he’s using is a Glock 27, so the big difference that I see between it and a kydex holster like say, a Henry holsters Flint, is that there’s much more material below the belt line when the gun is in the holster. It seems to me that more material below the belt (in addition to attachments to the belt that aren’t meant to slide off) would do a better job of keeping the gun in place in spite of movement or your opponent swiping their hip or something against the butt/rear sight of the gun.

You make a very good point about Mr. Douglases demonstrations though.

[JCN]

is that there’s much more material below the belt line when the gun is in the holster. It seems to me that more material below the belt (in addition to attachments to the belt that aren’t meant to slide off) would do a better job of keeping the gun in place in spite of movement or your opponent swiping their hip or something against the butt/rear sight of the gun.

Those are exactly the attributes that also make it hard to draw when YOU want access to the gun as well.

[Guerrero]

I don't have any experience with them myself, but I remember Dagga Boy (Darryl Bolke) having them on at least one of his J-frames, and he's legit. For example, THIS POST (https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1843071242512048&id=1199287713557074&__tn__=K-R) from his Facebook page.

[Cheap Shot]

My random thoughts that dont directly answer your question.:o

I'm one of those people that is uncomfortable with a device that doesnt cover the trigger. In addition, the clip draw cant be attached if you have a gadget installed, which I do on my glock.

However, after resisting for a few years, based on the recommendation of an LEO friend who uses one daily, I got one for my LCP. I'm still concerned about "surprises" but love it compared to my LCP holsters or pocket carry. But as JCN pointed out I dont get blazing draw speed using it, but its still faster than pocket carry.

So while I dont have FOF experience with it yet, the good news is a clip draw is so cheap its a non issue to just buy it and try it. Think of it as a trivial tuition payment on the learning curve for FOF. My .02

[UNM1136]

SouthNarc demonstrates very positive weapon retention with no holster at all, showing that if one has the skill (and is conscious and able) hardware is very much a secondary concern. Maybe the fellow bragging about the clipdraw is just that good? I don't know how much difference between it and any number of open top friction retention only holsters would be.

This....I was very surprised at how Mexican Appendix carry worked on FoF evolutions. I went from "sold" to "super sold" based on those experiences. So much so that my eldest daughter has done IAJJ, and now that she is in her 20s ECQC is on the horizon. My second daughter will take Cecil Burch 's IAJJ at first opportunity...

I was shamedly carrying appendix with a fluffed and buffed Kel-Tec P9 about 20 years ago...

pat

[Cecil Burch]

As BehindBlueI's stated, retention is more skill and software based, and while having some kind of retention aid built it to the holster is nice (one reason part of me still likes leather holsters - even though I never wear any for the most part), it is not the end all be all.

The true problem with the clipdraw has little to do with on belt retention. The issue is that it does not hold the gun in place particularly well when you are in compressed and entangled spaces. That is why I have strong doubts the person the OP was talking about has done any legit FoF work with truly resisting opponents with focused oppositional will, malevolent intent, and freedom to act as a bad guy really would act. 7 out of 10 times in any kind of entanglement - standing or on the ground - the gun will absolutely not be where you think it is, not will it be in a position that you can easily access and deploy it. I have worked extensively with a clipdraw because years ago I thought it may be a good solution. I can back up what I just wrote with years of testing and a metric ton of evolution repetitions with many people. When the guy spouting off he is good with it in a grappling situation, until he posts multiple video, I won't believe him.

[Hstanton1]

As BehindBlueI's stated, retention is more skill and software based, and while having some kind of retention aid built it to the holster is nice (one reason part of me still likes leather holsters - even though I never wear any for the most part), it is not the end all be all.

The true problem with the clipdraw has little to do with on belt retention. The issue is that it does not hold the gun in place particularly well when you are in compressed and entangled spaces. That is why I have strong doubts the person the OP was talking about has done any legit FoF work with truly resisting opponents with focused oppositional will, malevolent intent, and freedom to act as a bad guy really would act. 7 out of 10 times in any kind of entanglement - standing or on the ground - the gun will absolutely not be where you think it is, not will it be in a position that you can easily access and deploy it. I have worked extensively with a clipdraw because years ago I thought it may be a good solution. I can back up what I just wrote with years of testing and a metric ton of evolution repetitions with many people. When the guy spouting off he is good with it in a grappling situation, until he posts multiple video, I won't believe him.


Thank you so much for providing your experiences with the clipdraw! Would you mind if I share your comment with this guy and attribute it to you?

[willie]

How does one do Mexican appendix carry and not lose the weapon or have a mishap? I'm certain I must be missing something. The only guy I knew who did so shot off his right testicle.

[Hstanton1]

How does one do Mexican appendix carry and not lose the weapon or have a mishap? I'm certain I must be missing something. The only guy I knew who did so shot off his right testicle.

The guy in question is doing so with a kydex trigger guard in addition to the clip draw, so other issues aside, he at least has a fully covered trigger while the gun is in his pants.

I think there are a whole bunch of very valid non combatives related reasons to use a real holster, but this guy says he’s pressure tested it in BJJ, so hopefully he will be more receptive to expert opinions in that arena.

[willie]

I have a kydex trigger cover hook or support commonly seen on holsters. The hook fits over my belt. The Glock is inside the waist. Problem is drawing the pistol is difficult and awkward. Reholstering requires removing the holster. I use it for a trigger cover on a house gun.