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part-time shooter
08-05-2012, 12:09 PM
While cruising some older topics on another forum I came across someone, fairly well known, advocating the use of stacked magazines. i.e. using mixed ammo in a single mag, so JHP, Ball, JHP, ball etc. While not exactly a new idea I've never seen it discussed before. What's the general consensus on mixed ammo magazines? I've always used a single round for consistency and what I thought would be greater reliability. Is there another school of thought on this?

Thanks.

Sparks2112
08-05-2012, 12:43 PM
While cruising some older topics on another forum I came across someone, fairly well known, advocating the use of stacked magazines. i.e. using mixed ammo in a single mag, so JHP, Ball, JHP, ball etc. While not exactly a new idea I've never seen it discussed before. What's the general consensus on mixed ammo magazines? I've always used a single round for consistency and what I thought would be greater reliability. Is there another school of thought on this?

Thanks.

Why would you want to? Modern JHPs penetrate intermediate barriers more consistently than any FMJ loads in existence barring purpose built AP rounds.

orionz06
08-05-2012, 12:48 PM
Having recently witnessed my carry ammo shot through intermediate barriers, along with FMJ, I have zero concerns. I will continue to carry Federal HST 124gr +P.

Al T.
08-05-2012, 01:25 PM
In the old days, we really didn't know what we didn't know. The idea behind "stacking" or "candy caning" was that if your JHP failed to penetrate, the FMJ would. As we know now, JHP tends to clog and act just like that FMJ in most instances. :cool:

Back when the "Silvertip" was the only game in town, guys used to carry a magazine of FMJ if an automobile was a possible engagement area.

orionz06
08-05-2012, 01:36 PM
In the old days, we really didn't know what we didn't know. The idea behind "stacking" or "candy caning" was that if your JHP failed to penetrate, the FMJ would. As we know now, JHP tends to clog and act just like that FMJ in most instances. :cool:

Back when the "Silvertip" was the only game in town, guys used to carry a magazine of FMJ if an automobile was a possible engagement area.

That's the kind of context that often gets lost when people mention various things that *now* may sound weird. At one point it was the best thing to do.

Al T.
08-05-2012, 03:19 PM
LOL, yeah. The old days actually sucked. Buy your Colt Series '70, go straight to the gun smith to put decent sights on, trigger job and polish the feed ramp. I once saw a S&W Model 59 that (by live fire testing) could actually shoot 50 rounds of Federal 9mm JHPs with out a problem get sold for $350.00. New, they were in the mid 200s.

Today you can get ten times the gun for maybe twice the money. And good ammo. :cool:

Odin Bravo One
08-05-2012, 03:25 PM
I do it.

But not in a pistol.

I have enough choices in rifle/carbine ammo that a mix of particular loads make sense, given the proper environment.

Dr. No
08-05-2012, 03:42 PM
If I did that my Detectives would have an aneurysm processing the scene.

Honestly, if I'm shooting at a target and my ammo isn't producing the desired effect .... maybe it's time to change my target area or go to another weapon system.

ToddG
08-05-2012, 09:48 PM
For a CCW or domestic LE duty pistol where JHPs are readily available? I have a hard time grasping what the perceived benefit would be. I cannot for the life of me think of a single LE agency that follows (or authorizes) such a thing, either. I do know plenty of military units that wish they could carry JHP instead of FMJ in their pistols.

Even if we discount the countless obvious benefits of modern JHP ammo with its engineered penetration and expansion, you're trapped essentially not knowing whether the next round out of your gun is going to be an effective anti-personnel projectile or a solid penetrator. Instead of having predictable performance and capabilities each shot, you're stuck guessing or hoping that the bullet you're about to launch is the "right type" for what it needs to do this moment.

TCinVA
08-06-2012, 08:17 AM
In most intermediate barriers that the average LE officer or citizen is likely to need to shoot through, repeated application of a decent JHP load will accomplish pretty much the same thing that repeated application of FMJ rounds will accomplish.

Up1911Fan
08-06-2012, 10:14 PM
Most thing's Kyle Defoor says make's sense to me. His reasoning is that one round or the other will penetrate the barrier. That said, I carry Win Ranger 127gr +p+ and have no doubt's it'll get the job done.

part-time shooter
08-07-2012, 08:12 PM
Most thing's Kyle Defoor says make's sense to me. His reasoning is that one round or the other will penetrate the barrier. That said, I carry Win Ranger 127gr +p+ and have no doubt's it'll get the job done.

That's exactly what I'm carrying as well (RA9TA) and I'm quite content with it's performance against any barrier compared to ball, or any other 9mm load for that matter. I was more than a bit surprised to see this posted given the performance of modern ammunition. If I were going into harms way I'd be extremely happy to carry this load compared to any ball round.

Joe-jitsu
08-08-2012, 12:43 PM
I sometimes do as well, and Kyle isn't the only guy who does so.

Ball tends to perform better against some barriers from what I've seen.

When I stack I do Speer GD and Lawman. I don't advise throwing in crap ball (WWB, UMC, etc.) The lawman is nice because it is still quality, not underpowered and has extremely similar POI and accuracy.

ToddG
08-08-2012, 12:51 PM
Ball tends to perform better against some barriers from what I've seen.

Such as? And to what extent?

What kind of likelihood do you see facing such a barrier?

What kind of terminal performance are you losing on half your shots in return?

98z28
08-08-2012, 01:03 PM
I sometimes do as well, and Kyle isn't the only guy who does so.

Ball tends to perform better against some barriers from what I've seen.




Can you provide any sources for this statement?

From what I have seen (a single LE ammo demo for my old agency) and read, ball penetrates worse in every medium except bare gelatin. Bare gelatin is supposed to mimic human tissue. I would think that you would not want increased penetration (relative to modern, quality JHP loads) in human tissue. That assumes, of course, you are not John McClane and thus do not need to shoot through through your own shoulder to hit the bad guy.

ETA: Todd beat me to it.

98z28
08-09-2012, 02:24 PM
Here is the thread with Kyle Defoor's comments on M4C: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=97663

When pressed on the "why" of stacked mags, Kyle says that "every other round does everything" and that "I've had better luck with ball than hp on cars and concrete". He specifies what ammo he likes to carry (Speer GD 124gr and Speer Lawman 124gr), but not what ammo he has tested.

Interesting. I personally have a very small sample size, but this runs counter to my experience and to what I remember reading elsewhere.

Andy T
08-11-2012, 12:31 PM
Thanks SkyLine1.
Here is the thread: Stacked Magazine (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4976-using-quot-stacked-Magazines-quot)

JM Campbell
08-11-2012, 12:35 PM
Reference "stacked magazine" thread. Answers are there.

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