Infrared Driving Lights - Looking for advice or experiences

[El Cid]

As part of the Night Vision rabbit hole, I'm now finding myself shopping for IR driving lights. Main reason - America! That said, I'm wondering what I don't know to ask. I'm mostly focused on Lightforce (recommended by TNVC) and Rigid Industries because of their reputation. I also understand the 850nm have a red glow visible to the naked eye within 15 yards (where they'd hear my vehicle anyway), and 940nm are invisible w/o nods of some kind.

What I'm more interested in is the throw and beam pattern. Is it better to mount them wide on the bumper where fog lights normally go? Or are they okay closer to centerline?

Also, are there any drawbacks that nobody every talks about? No ninja cross-border Chuck Norris fantasies here... just wanting to get the most out of my nods and have an ability to be discreet if I want. lol!

Options I've found:
Rigid Pair: https://www.rigidindustries.com/d-series-infrared-spot-surface-mount-pair-202293.html

Rigid Bar: https://www.rigidindustries.com/e-series-10-spot-flood-combo-infrared-110392.html

Lightforce Pair 850nm: https://tnvc.com/shop/lightforce-striker-850nm-led-ir-driving-lights-2-pack/

Lightforce Pair 940nm: https://readymaderesources.com/product/lightforce-infrared-striker-led-infrared-driving-lights-1pair/

Thanks!

[Cookie Monster]

It’s just makes me happy this thread now exists.

[Stephanie B]

If there is a red glow discernible to the naked eye, do you run the risk of running afoul of the law?

[El Cid]

If there is a red glow discernible to the naked eye, do you run the risk of running afoul of the law?

Technically, probably. But they'd probably be more upset if I was driving on public roads with NV and all my other lights off. lol! One video I found a guy who hunts hogs quite a bit claims the red glow can spook the hogs. I have no idea if that's the case and he'd need to be stationary with the vehicle turned off for the red glow to be what alerts them in my opinion.

Of more interest to me than the red glow being visible, is whether or not the 850's (have a red glow) give better throw than the 940nm lights (invisible).

[Default.mp3]

Baja Designs is generally seen as being even higher quality than Rigid: https://www.bajadesigns.com/products/Infrared-Lighting.asp

Note that while 940 nm LEDs generate a much smaller visual signature apparent to the human eye, it also typically performs noticeably worse under most NODs, since it starts to get out of band; most folks say it's a reduction of between 30% to 50% in performance with typical NODs. While 940 nm LEDs won't be as apparent as the 850 nm, it will likely still have a visible signature at the power that you'd want driving lights to be; kinda like how the red glow of a 940 nm ModLite head is much less apparent than than the 850 nm one, but can still be seen. Now, it's my understanding that this is simply a function of the fact that most LEDs don't have the tightest control over exactly what they're outputting, and that the glow from the 940 nm LEDs are really just the LEDs being kinda lax in their output curve, but AFAIK, most of the stuff you will be able to find on the open market will have some visible signature even when specced for 940 nm (the more output the more glow comes more from the fact that you would be putting out a lot more power overall, including in the visible spectrum).

The BD's at 940 nm might (might!) have very good visible signature reduction and decent throw, given that they are what's used on some of the military vehicles; their website claims that "[t]he Squadron 940nm IR is the exclusive light of the Polaris M-RZR and Dagor".

I will also note that the Photonis 4G tubes are suppose to have better performance at the longer wavelengths than your standard L-3 and Elbit tubes, though I've heard mixed reviews as to exactly how much better.

[El Cid]

Baja Designs is generally seen as being even higher quality than Rigid: https://www.bajadesigns.com/products/Infrared-Lighting.asp

Note that while 940 nm LEDs generate a much smaller visual signature apparent to the human eye, it also typically performs noticeably worse under most NODs, since it starts to get out of band; most folks say it's a reduction of between 30% to 50% in performance with typical NODs. While 940 nm LEDs won't be as apparent as the 850 nm, it will likely still have a visible signature at the power that you'd want driving lights to be; kinda like how the red glow of a 940 nm ModLite head is much less apparent than than the 850 nm one, but can still be seen. Now, it's my understanding that this is simply a function of the fact that most LEDs don't have the tightest control over exactly what they're outputting, and that the glow from the 940 nm LEDs are really just the LEDs being kinda lax in their output curve, but AFAIK, most of the stuff you will be able to find on the open market will have some visible signature even when specced for 940 nm (the more output the more glow comes more from the fact that you would be putting out a lot more power overall, including in the visible spectrum).

The BD's at 940 nm might (might!) have very good visible signature reduction and decent throw, given that they are what's used on some of the military vehicles; their website claims that "[t]he Squadron 940nm IR is the exclusive light of the Polaris M-RZR and Dagor".

I will also note that the Photonis 4G tubes are suppose to have better performance at the longer wavelengths than your standard L-3 and Elbit tubes, though I've heard mixed reviews as to exactly how much better.

Exactly the kind of info I was looking for! Thanks! I figured the 940’s had less throw. Realistically I don’t need completely covert lights. But if the performance and price are close…. Why not? Lol! I mean I don’t “need” white phosphor nods.

[That Guy]

Since I can't even afford NODs I'm not quite sure why, but for some reason just knowing such a thing as infrared driving lights exist makes me unreasonably happy. So thank you for letting me know about these things. :)

(Naturally, now I need these for my truck. :p )

[El Cid]

Default.mp3 have you seen any of these in the field? Looking at aftermarket truck bumpers and every company seems to have its own ideas about where lights should be placed. Is it ok to place IR lights on the outer edges, or would they benefit from being closer to center? Looking at bumpers (which could be its own thread) is maddening and I'm almost at the point of analysis paralysis. lol!

Thanks!

That Guy clearly you NEED some manner of night vision. Kids can find another way to pay for college. ;)

[Default.mp3]

@Default.mp3 (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=1132) have you seen any of these in the field? Looking at aftermarket truck bumpers and every company seems to have its own ideas about where lights should be placed. Is it ok to place IR lights on the outer edges, or would they benefit from being closer to center? Looking at bumpers (which could be its own thread) is maddening and I'm almost at the point of analysis paralysis. lol!Sorry, I don't have much info on that; I haven't gotten around to modding my vehicle much yet, though it's something I am definitely planning on doing. That being said, I believe the light placement is dependent on what you're trying to do with it, and the lights themselves; for example, BD's Squadrons can be had in both a driving/combo pattern and work/scene pattern, the former having much more throw but less spill. BD's own literature suggests that a driving/combo pattern light be put closer to the center of the vehicle, which I think makes sense, since with more throw, you're trying to see further right in front of you, while lights with more spill could be placed closer to the side for cornering.

[gringop]

While I have not mounted any IR lights permanently to my vehicles, I have experimented at various times driving with NODS. A quick and easy way to test the experience would be to find a safe country road and switch to just the parking lights for a short distance, if your vehicle can do that.

With a single tube and lack of depth perception, I was not comfortable at much over 50 mph on a 2 lane country road. For off road driving at slower speeds, I don't think that more distance focused driving beams would be very useful.

Also, there are a number of less expensive 12 volt IR lights on Amazon that are marketed as fixed illumination for IR cameras. While these will not be as rugged as dedicated vehicle lights, they could be an inexpensive way to try out driving under NODS in various conditions.

Gringop

[Whiskey]

On top of the IR lights (which I havent gotten to yet), make sure you have a way to black out your dash lights. This is where older vehicles shine... seems like every newer vehicle I get in has everything up to the cupholders lit. I use painters tape, then duct tape over top. Comes off without leaving a ton of residue.

[Cookie Monster]

While I have not mounted any IR lights permanently to my vehicles, I have experimented at various times driving with NODS. A quick and easy way to test the experience would be to find a safe country road and switch to just the parking lights for a short distance, if your vehicle can do that.

With a single tube and lack of depth perception, I was not comfortable at much over 50 mph on a 2 lane country road. For off road driving at slower speeds, I don't think that more distance focused driving beams would be very useful.

Also, there are a number of less expensive 12 volt IR lights on Amazon that are marketed as fixed illumination for IR cameras. While these will not be as rugged as dedicated vehicle lights, they could be an inexpensive way to try out driving under NODS in various conditions.

Gringop

It makes me happy that PF members are out there doing this shit.

[El Cid]

On top of the IR lights (which I havent gotten to yet), make sure you have a way to black out your dash lights. This is where older vehicles shine... seems like every newer vehicle I get in has everything up to the cupholders lit. I use painters tape, then duct tape over top. Comes off without leaving a ton of residue.

This annoys me for a variety of reasons. I am old enough to remember when we could turn the dash lights completely off with the OEM dial/switch. Now, I don't know of any vehicles that allow this. I've had to modify vehicles for night or early morning surveillance with velcro on the dash and cut pieces of plastic to cover the dashes. The best plastic I found was the thin sheet lifters often found in 3 ring binders. In a pinch I throw a shirt or jacket over the dash, but this is something I don't understand why manufacturers went away from in the first place.

I did find this for a "tail light" under NV. https://www.bajadesigns.com/products/LED-IR-Follow-Me-Light.asp But I need friends with NV before I need that. lol!

[Whiskey]

For the price of that (and how much I drive under NV) I would use painters tape over the whole tail light, then duct tape over all of the tail light but a small window. That would probably let enough glow from the tail light through the painters tape to be easily visible with NODs but not enough to spook anything.

Most of the times me and the buddies are doing NV stuff we are all in my truck because its old enough to mostly "self blackout" requiring very little work for the dash lights. Because I have a PVS 14 I like to have another NV wearing buddy in the passenger side as a spotter for the ditch. Iraq was a lot easier to drive in most places than the back roads here.

[El Cid]

For the price of that (and how much I drive under NV) I would use painters tape over the whole tail light, then duct tape over all of the tail light but a small window. That would probably let enough glow from the tail light through the painters tape to be easily visible with NODs but not enough to spook anything.

Most of the times me and the buddies are doing NV stuff we are all in my truck because its old enough to mostly "self blackout" requiring very little work for the dash lights. Because I have a PVS 14 I like to have another NV wearing buddy in the passenger side as a spotter for the ditch. Iraq was a lot easier to drive in most places than the back roads here.

Yes - the taillight thing would be last on my list. For now if I really needed to have someone follow me, I suppose an IR chemlight would do just fine.

[TOTS]

Default.mp3 have you seen any of these in the field? Looking at aftermarket truck bumpers and every company seems to have its own ideas about where lights should be placed. Is it ok to place IR lights on the outer edges, or would they benefit from being closer to center? Looking at bumpers (which could be its own thread) is maddening and I'm almost at the point of analysis paralysis. lol!

Thanks!

That Guy clearly you NEED some manner of night vision. Kids can find another way to pay for college. ;)

El Cid, I’m not Default.mp3, nor have I stayed in a Holiday Inn lately, but from my experience, light seems to be light. Beam patterns and reflectors seem to work similar in both the visible and IR applications. Several of our lights have both IR and white light bulbs in the same reflectors. We just control which one is illuminated with a switch. If someone more experienced than I doesn’t correct me, I would put IR lights exactly where would be optimal for a white light.

[El Cid]

El Cid, I’m not Default.mp3, nor have I stayed in a Holiday Inn lately, but from my experience, light seems to be light. Beam patterns and reflectors seem to work similar in both the visible and IR applications. Several of our lights have both IR and white light bulbs in the same reflectors. We just control which one is illuminated with a switch. If someone more experienced than I doesn’t correct me, I would put IR lights exactly where would be optimal for a white light.

Makes sense. I figured IR light would have less throw than white. Thanks!

Now if anyone knows if Rigid ever has sales…? lol! Didn’t see a good guy discount online anywhere.