How bad is the plumbing industry right now?

[LittleLebowski]

I need something done at my house. What's going on is that there is a long run of PVC in my house that is unfortunately nearly level and it should be at a downward angle to drain properly. Couple that with a family that isn't so good about not putting grease, food, etc down the pipes and we have periodic clogged pipes. It needs cut out and reworked for a much better downward angle. I'm guessing it wouldn't be more than a few hundred, but who knows nowadays?

[HeavyDuty]

I’ve heard the industry is pretty shitty all of the time.

[HeavyDuty]

Seriously, how is the access? Can you do it yourself?

[Toonces]

3” and 4” drain lines usually have slope spelled out in the building codes. I think 4” was 1/8” per foot, and 3” was 1/8” to 1/4” per foot in my old hometown. Supposedly to stop the water from running away from the solids and leaving them stranded.

[LittleLebowski]

Seriously, how is the access? Can you do it yourself?

Access is good, maybe great. I just don’t know what the fuck I’m doing. I need to make it into much more of a downward angle.

[Darth_Uno]

3” and 4” drain lines usually have slope spelled out in the building codes. I think 4” was 1/8” per foot, and 3” was 1/8” to 1/4” per foot in my old hometown. Supposedly to stop the water from running away from the solids and leaving them stranded.

I don't know the code*, but I do know you can have too much slope, for that exact reason.

LL, it may be a bigger job than you think. To get the correct slope, you may need to either raise all the points where the various drains tie into it, or lower the far end. If that runs through your foundation wall into a septic tank, you may need to drill a new hole both in your foundation and tank.

*if I take something apart I can put it back together, but plumbing is the one thing I've never really done on our new homes

[LittleLebowski]

So, this is what access looks like:

76780

76781


And here’s where it terminates. I think I just need to change where it terminates in order to give it more of a downward angle?


76783

[Darth_Uno]

Ok, great. As long as you don't have bathrooms or other fixtures tying into that line, looks like you just need to drop it where it ties into the lower drain line (which then presumably runs to whatever system handles your sewage).

[Caballoflaco]

Ok, great. As long as you don't have bathrooms or other fixtures tying into that line, looks like you just need to drop it where it ties into the lower drain line (which then presumably runs to whatever system handles your sewage).

This. And if I were to do that here is where I’d cut.

76784

[Caballoflaco]

Deleted for Pre-mature postulation

[Rob79]

The tee facing down with the clean out in your second picture is most likely your main issue. That should be removed and replaced with a straight run of piping. Any grease or solids that are in the line are going to collect in that fitting and create a blockage.

[Snapshot]

The tee facing down with the clean out in your second picture is most likely your main issue. That should be removed and replaced with a straight run of piping. Any grease or solids that are in the line are going to collect in that fitting and create a blockage.

IANAP and I try very hard to limit my work on "away" plumbing to fixtures and maybe traps, but that T fitting seemed odd to me, hard to tell without the context but seems like an unusual location and orientation for a cleanout and likewise for a future fixture. Also the color looks different than the adjacent tubing, almost like a repair or a misapplication of a T as a union.

Is there a suitable vent for whatever fixture uses this drain? And is the outlet to the left of the Y fitting?

[Cory]

I dabble in plumbing at work, but I'm not a plumber. Mostly commercial. That clean out looks like a problem waiting to happen to me. It's goin to catch shit. Or grease. Or whatever. Having a cleanout is super important for clogs... but that one looks like it would make clogs.

This weekend I got to walk through sewage backup at a public beach restroom, and then close it to the public on labor day. Pump had to get reset. So I got that goin' for me I guess.

[Borderland]

I thought the opening for clean outs were supposed to be above the flowline, not below. That looks weird. Easy to fix with a Sawzall and good instructions to your wife as she makes the repair.

Word of caution. Don't send her to Home Depot for parts. Do that yourself. ;)

I would wait a month for a plumber and 2 months for an electrician. Painters are easy because Hispanic and a general contractors license.

[UNK]

It looks like the problem pipe is actually running up hill. Probably because of the three fittings theres just not enough room. Id say it needs to have a 90 at the end then drop straight down into the larger pipe.
Id calculate the drop over the length of the run and see if there is enough room to turn the 90 and tie in. If not its going to need to be shortened on the other end.
Doesnt look like a big job for a plumber. I would think less than 300. A whole lot less if you do it yourself. Is the pipe currently clogged?

ETA Im a sparky not a plumber
Also Id give some thought to how I would get 2 straight cuts on that larger pipe. Id also buy all the parts and hold them up to the large pipe to make sure I know exactly where to cut. Id buy a length of both pipe sizes and couplings plus the fittings the cleaner and the glue. Id rather take parts back than run to get more. And gloves. I think id also try to flush the pipes before I made a cut. Probably be a good idea to call a plumber. 😝

I dont know how much movement that larger pipe has but looking at it more my concern would be how im going to get the large pipe back togather. In electrical Id use a three piece coupling to cut into an existing pipe. Surely plumbers have something like that but I have no idea what it would be called. Id probably get one for the problem pipe too if you are going to remove that tee/clean out.

[rob_s]

This. And if I were to do that here is where I’d cut.

76784

I followed along all those pics, thought “the clean out is jacked, but otherwise not a huge deal” until I got to this last pic.

The main issue, and probably what happened to the original guy that installed it, is that your larger main is too high and needs to be lowered. What this pic shows is fittings that are bald to back to back, which means you have no room for adjustment at this end of the pipe without lowering the main.

You might get away with what they call a “street 90” at the top, which might buy you an inch, but depending on the length of pipe that might not get you much.

I also agree with those that said your clean out is probably collecting gunk and then backing things up. A straight T that’s turned so the clean out is facing horizontal Instead of down might help. I can’t help but wonder, however, if a previous owner didn’t install that due to the clogging flat pipe…


ETA:
I’d call a plumber. You’re likely going to have a hard time getting through to anyone, etc. I would call the biggest residential/service plumbing company in your area, and I would NOT hire someone that lives in your neighborhood nor try to cheap out by getting a guy for cash on the weekend.

I work in the construction industry. Very often I *could* get someone for cash on the weekends. We also live in a neighborhood with a lot of tradespeople. I hire both name companies and I take the hit, whenever possible. Little guys are rarely professional enough (or have the staff) to return phone calls, and neighbors that fuck things up are very uncomfortable to run into at the grocery store and the school. A big name company may tell you things you don’t want to hear (it’ll be three weeks before someone can come out, and it’s a $500 service call credited against your total bill if you have us do the work) but it’ll be done and you won’t have to go chasing people around.

[Hambo]

I followed along all those pics, thought “the clean out is jacked, but otherwise not a huge deal” until I got to this last pic.

The main issue, and probably what happened to the original guy that installed it, is that your larger main is too high and needs to be lowered. What this pic shows is fittings that are bald to back to back, which means you have no room for adjustment at this end of the pipe without lowering the main.

You might get away with what they call a “street 90” at the top, which might buy you an inch, but depending on the length of pipe that might not get you much.

I also agree with those that said your clean out is probably collecting gunk and then backing things up. A straight T that’s turned so the clean out is facing horizontal Instead of down might help. I can’t help but wonder, however, if a previous owner didn’t install that due to the clogging flat pipe…


ETA:
I’d call a plumber. You’re likely going to have a hard time getting through to anyone, etc. I would call the biggest residential/service plumbing company in your area, and I would NOT hire someone that lives in your neighborhood nor try to cheap out by getting a guy for cash on the weekend.

I work in the construction industry. Very often I *could* get someone for cash on the weekends. We also live in a neighborhood with a lot of tradespeople. I hire both name companies and I take the hit, whenever possible. Little guys are rarely professional enough (or have the staff) to return phone calls, and neighbors that fuck things up are very uncomfortable to run into at the grocery store and the school. A big name company may tell you things you don’t want to hear (it’ll be three weeks before someone can come out, and it’s a $500 service call credited against your total bill if you have us do the work) but it’ll be done and you won’t have to go chasing people around.

I've done plumbing, and I hate it. Now I hire it out. I used to have a retired guy from Rhode Island for little jobs. He came to the house, didn't talk, and fixed the problem for a hundo. For big stuff, I call big companies because they can send tools, parts, and reinforcements if the job turns out to be bigger than expected.

[beenalongtime]

I had to call a plumber recently for my business. It was not an emergency, so I could wait the three days he needed to finish up some jobs. The one I used, use to be a silent partner in my LGS, so we had an established relationship. If you know someone that owns rentals, you might ask them if they have someone they use. Our old landlord used to, and I expect our current landlord does.

The other thought, was local places that specialize in snaking drains, typically have either someone that does DWV for them, either internally or externally.

[Erik]

The main issue, and probably what happened to the original guy that installed it, is that your larger main is too high and needs to be lowered. What this pic shows is fittings that are bald to back to back, which means you have no room for adjustment at this end of the pipe without lowering the main.

Looking at that picture, I would think you could drop the problem line if you cut out the tee on the larger main and install a new tee further to the left. It would give you enough room have a section of PVC between the tee and the elbow off the problem line. Drop the problem line and change the angle of that elbow on the end of it, as LL was thinking.

[UNK]

LittleLebowski We need to see if you can shorten the pipe at the drain end (originating end). Can you take a pic of that?

[rob_s]

Looking at that picture, I would think you could drop the problem line if you cut out the tee on the larger main and install a new tee further to the left. It would give you enough room have a section of PVC between the tee and the elbow off the problem line. Drop the problem line and change the angle of that elbow on the end of it, as LL was thinking.
possibly. Assuming the main is sloped. that big main also looks a little flat to me.


LittleLebowski We need to see if you can shorten the pipe at the drain end (originating end). Can you take a pic of that?
I was thinking the same thing after my post. if you could raise the "high" end (or the end that's supposed to be high).

I'd shoot for 1/4" per foot myself. LL, take the overall length of the offending pipe, and figure 1/4" of drop for every foot of length. If it's 20ft long it needs to drop 5" over the full length. If you can't get 1/4in/ft, then try for 1/8in/ft (or 2.5in of vertical drop over the same 20ft length).

Overall though, I'm guessing that whoever did the original install ran into some sort of problem themselves, rather than just mass incompetence or intentional fuckery. Doing some of the above ciphering will help you figure out which it is.

[JohnO]

LittleLebowski We need to see if you can shorten the pipe at the drain end (originating end). Can you take a pic of that?

Yes. Make the beginning of the horizontal run start higher.

[Snapshot]

I am not on any plumbing forums (if such things even exist) so the information in this thread just reinforces what a great forum this is, no need to look anywhere else no matter what your issue or question. :D

We would like a full report of what was done to correct this problem once that is done.

[HeavyDuty]

Straight drop into a barrel, ejection pump. Simples.

[AKDoug]

First thing I would do is check your pipes for slope. 1/4" per foot is the standard. It's easy to check.. put a 1" block of something on the end of a 4' level, or 1/2" on a 2' level, then check the pipe. There are times the strapping has settled or whatever and you can often put the pipe back into slope. I'd definitely get rid of that downward facing tee/cleanout.

[LittleLebowski]

LittleLebowski We need to see if you can shorten the pipe at the drain end (originating end). Can you take a pic of that?

You mean where it comes in from above?

[LittleLebowski]

Overall though, I'm guessing that whoever did the original install ran into some sort of problem themselves, rather than just mass incompetence or intentional fuckery. Doing some of the above ciphering will help you figure out which it is.

I don’t know about that. This house was owned by some quirky people. They built an office in the basement. Internal wall. Then they installed internal windows facing inside, with blinds, I shit you not.

[JohnO]

You mean where it comes in from above?


Yes.


So, this is what access looks like:

76780



How far back does the horizontal run start. If it is close to what we see in the picture it appears there is room to start an elbow higher, assuming there is a downpipe that 90 degrees into the horizontal pipe. The horizontal pipe appears close to the bottom of the joist.

[UNK]

You mean where it comes in from above?

Yes at the source. Lookin back at the other post it seems like others are on the same page.
Measure the length of the run. Find out how much drop you need in inches. If there not enough drop the cheapest option is to make the pipe shorter at the source if there is a vertical drop that can be cut.
Im looking for the simplest cheapest method of doing this. Dropping the main or a pump are the most expensive options.

[UNK]

I think this article addresses the concerns I voiced earlier about cutting into the main drain if its solidly in place.

https://www.finehomebuilding.com/2018/03/01/help-tying-drain-line

[NEPAKevin]

...and I would NOT hire someone that lives in your neighborhood nor try to cheap out by getting a guy for cash on the weekend.



I work with a guy who does that. He recently was telling the tale of how he got a call one night from a couple that had their outlet line completely blocked. Goes over and it was jammed with these special "wipes" the wife uses instead of regular TP. Now, I didn't really understand this part as none of the houses I have lived in had a place to access the septic line other than at the ends but apparently this one does. It is also important to note that the husband had told the wife not to use the plumbing until they told her... So he has the line open and unclogs it. You can see where this is going. Husband: "Stop flushing the F***ing Toilet!" Wife: "But it's fixed?!" Husband: "No it's not F***ing fixed!" As previously mentioned, plumbing can be a shitty job.

[Cory]

I work with a guy who does that. He recently was telling the tale of how he got a call one night from a couple that had their outlet line completely blocked. Goes over and it was jammed with these special "wipes" the wife uses instead of regular TP. Now, I didn't really understand this part as none of the houses I have lived in had a place to access the septic line other than at the ends but apparently this one does. It is also important to note that the husband had told the wife not to use the plumbing until they told her... So he has the line open and unclogs it. You can see where this is going. Husband: "Stop flushing the F***ing Toilet!" Wife: "But it's fixed?!" Husband: "No it's not F***ing fixed!" As previously mentioned, plumbing can be a shitty job.

Been there. We were snaking the cleanout. The snake had just finished removing some items that are small and white, resemble dead mice, and are literally intended to clog certain... orifices. There were more to remove and it was still clogged when someone decided to flush all the toliets, and we wound up with a very messy breakroom.

[Darth_Uno]

Years ago a friend of mine rented an apartment and had to call a plumber fairly soon after moving in.

"Hey man," says the plumber, "I don't care and I'm not judging, but you gotta stop flushing your needles." My friend then spent a couple hundred on bleach, alcohol, and a new toilet.

[HCM]

I work with a guy who does that. He recently was telling the tale of how he got a call one night from a couple that had their outlet line completely blocked. Goes over and it was jammed with these special "wipes" the wife uses instead of regular TP. Now, I didn't really understand this part as none of the houses I have lived in had a place to access the septic line other than at the ends but apparently this one does. It is also important to note that the husband had told the wife not to use the plumbing until they told her... So he has the line open and unclogs it. You can see where this is going. Husband: "Stop flushing the F***ing Toilet!" Wife: "But it's fixed?!" Husband: "No it's not F***ing fixed!" As previously mentioned, plumbing can be a shitty job.

There is no such thing as "flushable" wipes.

[Tabasco]

My neighbor does septic install and service. Had a couple of his guys out with their SST (sh!t sucking truck) to clean out our tanks. Asked them, "ever find anything interesting in someones tank"? No body parts or anything like that, but one job they found a bunch of condoms clogging up the works, and advised client they should stop flushing condoms. Wife replies, " but we don't use condoms"?

[Toonces]

Do you know where the clogs are forming? What are the slopes on the lines? The line coming into the main looks very flat, as it is above the joists for the entire run, and appears to cross rooms, so it has some run but not much rise. It looks like the main line has some/plenty of slope.

The following is assuming the main is sloped enough, and that the incoming line is not: I would figure out the heights to know how far to drop the smaller line. Then I would make three cuts, as shown. Move the main line Y back to give enough room for a long sweep 90 on the incoming line to rotate into the Y. Cut the old coupling out of the main line and replace with a repair coupling. So some math, a Y, a long sweep 90, a repair coupling, less than 3' of main pipe, 2-6" of incoming pipe, and cleaning supplies would drop that end of the pipe to get proper slope. Get rid of that cleanout at the same time.

It's not rocket science, but it could be a stress filled mess, and plumbers fix shit every day.

76820

[TC215]

Discovered a similar issue in my plumbing last year. The plumbers had it fixed in no time. It was a quick fix and something I wasn’t willing to tackle myself.

[LittleLebowski]

There is no such thing as "flushable" wipes.

Correct.

[LittleLebowski]

Update: got a pro recommended by JV_ to take a look. Code calls for 6” of slope, I’ve got less than 2”. We are going to fix that with new pipe Saturday.

[LittleLebowski]

I work with a guy who does that. He recently was telling the tale of how he got a call one night from a couple that had their outlet line completely blocked. Goes over and it was jammed with these special "wipes" the wife uses instead of regular TP. Now, I didn't really understand this part as none of the houses I have lived in had a place to access the septic line other than at the ends but apparently this one does. It is also important to note that the husband had told the wife not to use the plumbing until they told her... So he has the line open and unclogs it. You can see where this is going. Husband: "Stop flushing the F***ing Toilet!" Wife: "But it's fixed?!" Husband: "No it's not F***ing fixed!" As previously mentioned, plumbing can be a shitty job.

We’ve been slacking on spreading the #BidetTruth

https://www.amazon.com/Veken-Ultra-Slim-Non-Electric-Adjustable-Attachment/dp/B082HFS8KT/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=Bidet&qid=1631153602&sr=8-9

[UNK]

Update: got a pro recommended by JV_ to take a look. Code calls for 6” of slope, I’ve got less than 2”. We are going to fix that with new pipe Saturday.

After having more time to think about it probably the simplest solution if you have room is just shorten it at the source and strap according to slope needed. I dont know why my brain over complicates things.
Look forward to the solution that you arrive at. Nothing more infuriating than fixing screw ups by someone who has not applied themselves to mastering their trade.

[LittleLebowski]

After having more time to think about it probably the simplest solution if you have room is just shorten it at the source and strap according to slope needed. I dont know why my brain over complicates things.
Look forward to the solution that you arrive at. Nothing more infuriating than fixing screw ups by someone who has not applied themselves to mastering their trade.

I don’t have the pics right now, but the solution is crazy simple. New pipe and change the angle where it terminates into the main, that’s it. I apologize for my mangling of the terminology. The guy is charging $50 an hour and he’s punctual, knowledgeable, and conservative.