Are dry fire traing systems worthwhile?

[gunrascal]

Which dry fire kit is most recommended and truly useful?

[JCN]

No kit is going to be useful without your own motivation and ability to critically self assess yourself.

Any kit can be useful if you have those personal and intellectual skills.

To make Master in USPSA I used three brown index cards taped to the wall.

I have used and tried and owned almost everything and nothing matters if you don’t have good observational skills and a problem solving mind.

It’s like asking “what diet system works?”

[gunrascal]

I agree with your comments, however, 'hoping for experienced users to compare and contrast various systems.

[JCN]

I agree with your comments, however, 'hoping for experienced users to compare and contrast various systems.

Yes, but what systems are you talking about and for what goal? Your scope is very wide.

Different dry setups work better for different levels of ability.

IMO the best dry setup is a DA gun and a red dot sight. The targets and system don’t matter much at all.

For people without any insight, desire or ability to self correct, the MantisX system or laser bullet enabled systems work okay but they don’t offer the level of versatility and applicability as you observing sight placement on trigger press.

[SAWBONES]

Correctly "going through the motions" involved in dry practice enhances your stability of performance for:

1.) gun access,
2.) the draw,
3.) grip,
4.) target acquisition,
5.) trigger control.

It cannot be anything but helpful if practiced correctly and safely.

The only aspect of the firing sequence it can't help is recoil recovery.

[Sal Picante]

Which dry fire kit is most recommended and truly useful?

This one.

p/BsGfPHZncnx

[David S.]

IMO the best dry setup is a DA gun and a red dot sight. The targets and system don’t matter much at all.

I agree with this. The goal is to learn to read and interpret your sighting system. Nothing does that better than using your sighting system.

A RDS is easier to interpret than iron sights, so I find it the most useful tool.
Laser devices distract you from what you should be focused on. BTDT
A SIRT without lasers makes a ton of sense as a dry fire tool. With lasers, it makes a ton of sense as an instructional prop.
I could see limited potential value of a Mantis device for an irons shooter, but after a month or so with a RDS, 95+% Mantis scores were no big deal. BTDT. The new units that measure draws and live fire might be more useful.

I have a BarrelBlok (https://www.concealedcarry.com/product/barrelblok-dry-fire-training-and-safety-tool/) on order. I think it makes a ton of sense from a safety perspective.

If it gets you over a hump or is a catalyst for you putting in the work over time, then it has value.

[gunrascal]

Informative post David. Which RDS do you recommend for sig 250 and 229 both 9mm?

[Darth_Uno]

I agree with this. The goal is to learn to read and interpret your sighting system. Nothing does that better than using your sighting system.

A RDS is easier to interpret than iron sights, so I find it the most useful tool.
Laser devices distract you from what you should be focused on. BTDT
A SIRT without lasers makes a ton of sense as a dry fire tool. With lasers, it makes a ton of sense as an instructional prop.
I could see limited potential value of a Mantis device for an irons shooter, but after a month or so with a RDS, 95+% Mantis scores were no big deal. BTDT. The new units that measure draws and live fire might be more useful.

I have a BarrelBlok (https://www.concealedcarry.com/product/barrelblok-dry-fire-training-and-safety-tool/) on order. I think it makes a ton of sense from a safety perspective.

If it gets you over a hump or is a catalyst for you putting in the work over time, then it has value.

My friend has a Mantis. I believe that it is very useful for new shooters in developing a "steady hand". More advanced shooters may not see as much of a benefit.

At some point you will learn to "beat the game", but/and that will show in your live ammo shooting.

Personally, I made the quickest progress when I finally bought a shot timer.

[David S.]

Informative post David. Which RDS do you recommend for sig 250 and 229 both 9mm?

That is going to be super subjective. I suggest you check out one of the recent RDS threads. TLDR: I personally think the Holosun products give the best balance of durability, features and price for general purpose use. The adjustable RMR is another solid GP choice, but more expensive, no reticle choices, smaller window, and you have to remove it to replace the battery. The SRO excels for competition and the ACRO for duty.

For a temporary solution, you can pick up a EGW mount (https://www.egwguns.com/trijicon-rmr-sro-holosun-407c-507c-mount-for-sig-sauer-p220-p226-p229-p320) that fits in the rear sight dovetail for $50. I used it as a cheap, non destructive way to "test drive" the dot before committing to milling my slides. Of course, there are downsides: It obviously sits significantly higher than your iron sights or a milled-in RDS, which takes some getting used to. You have to develop a new index that doesn't apply to your normal index. IMO, it's not durable enough for carry use. But, it's cheap and easy.

I suspect any of the normal mill shops will take on both of them if you decide to go all in on the dot. I've used Vulcan Machine Works in Plano, TX. FWIW, I believe The SIG Armorer outsources his RDS mill work to them.

[David S.]

My friend has a Mantis. I believe that it is very useful for new shooters in developing a "steady hand". More advanced shooters may not see as much of a benefit.

At some point you will learn to "beat the game", but/and that will show in your live ammo shooting.

Personally, I made the quickest progress when I finally bought a shot timer.

I dig it. The Active Self Protection Extra (https://www.youtube.com/c/ActiveSelfProtectionExtra) YouTube channel (sponsored by Mantis) has a lot of good info on using it. I had version 1, which was only designed for static shooting. The new version is apparently able to measures draws, movement, strings of fire and live fire, which seems more useful.

[DMF13]

I'll throw in my 2 cents, but take it with a grain of salt, as I'm just a C-class shooter, working to improve.

With a DA/SA gun, I agree that you can just dry fire in DA mode. I never understood the concern about the DA to SA transition. When I shot P228s and P229s, I never had any real problem with the short light SA pull, it was the longer heavy DA pull I had to work on. When I got decent at working the DA pull, the SA seemed almost like cheating, when going from 10.5# down to 4#.

Now, with my Glock, I use a DryFireMag, but I put in the spring that simulates the 6.5-7# trigger pull. So getting decent at working the trigger at 6.5#, makes the stock 5.5# seem much easier.

JCN has also convinced me that using a MRDS in dry fire pays off big time when switching to irons. For the last couple of weeks I've been switching back and forth between a dot and irons (again big thanks to JCN for loaning me a slide and barrel, with a MRDS). It has forced me to be much more consistent and smooth in my press out, and with the dot movement that might seem very small, or unnoticeable with irons, is quite obvious with the dot. That has forced me to be much more focused on a clean trigger press.

With regard to the Mantis X, I haven't seen enough value in it to justify the cost. My DryFireMag has the Mantis-X built in, and I saw some small value initially in the draw analysis, but not enough to justify the cost. If I were doing it again I would have saved the extra cash, and skipped the Mantis-X. That said, mine obviously can't be used for live fire, so I don't have any experience with using it for that.

[gunrascal]

I like the BarrelBlok idea and orderd one; good safety perspective.

[Kirk]

In my opinion, after owning the CoolFire system and using it a decent amount, pure dry fire is about 90% as good. I ended up spending most of my training time refilling the barrel and less time actually training it seemed.

The SIRT, in my honest opinion, is even less useful, especially if you use a dot or non-Glock. The laser can create bad habits in *some* shooters, as they will end up searching for the laser instead of focusing on the sights. And, if you run a dot, you don't need a laser to confirm hits.

I'm kind of where JCN is. You can do the vast majority of your training with 3 targets on the wall. I have a full dry fire room with targets, a few simulated plate racks, a few mini stages, and some Steel Challenge banners, but I still spend the majority of my time on the 3 targets.

It seems the best way is what it always has been - spend 30-90 minutes per day doing traditional dry fire on a timer and hit up the range 1+ time per week to at least confirm that your dry fire is translating. The hard part is having the discipline to do this and it is where I often fail.

This is all my own opinion, ymmv.

[John Hearne]

If you're patient, I'm working on a series of dry practice videos from very low end to mid range to higher end options. My time has been eaten by family illnesses this year but if I can get the time, I'll have something up by the end of the year.

[gunrascal]

If you're patient, I'm working on a series of dry practice videos from very low end to mid range to higher end options. My time has been eaten by family illnesses this year but if I can get the time, I'll have something up by the end of the year.

"sounds really good;I will watch for it.

[Cory]

I strongly recommend a blue training gun.

I have a kid, and the blue training gun allows me to have a "gun" that I can leave out for dryfire. I did a little work to make the sights more life like. I target focus most of the time anyway, so having a target in the garage and my blue gun on the bench lets me get a few reps everytime I change laundry or grab a tool.

Plus, a blue gun can be used to get reps on draws and the like. It's handy to have.

[JCN]

I strongly recommend a blue training gun.

I have a kid, and the blue training gun allows me to have a "gun" that I can leave out for dryfire. I did a little work to make the sights more life like. I target focus most of the time anyway, so having a target in the garage and my blue gun on the bench lets me get a few reps everytime I change laundry or grab a tool.

Plus, a blue gun can be used to get reps on draws and the like. It's handy to have.

I have used real guns for try fire that I have removed or modified strikers for safety.
Still no real ammo around of course.

I have also used this which might work for you:
https://www.amazon.com/Omega-Internal-Chamber-Semi-Auto-Pistol/dp/B00QL1AMVY

Basically a chamber lock that you need a tool to remove. Use it like a snap cap.

I personally think trigger training is useful in dry fire so I don’t want to give that up.

[Cory]

I have used real guns for try fire that I have removed or modified strikers for safety.
Still no real ammo around of course.

I have also used this which might work for you:
https://www.amazon.com/Omega-Internal-Chamber-Semi-Auto-Pistol/dp/B00QL1AMVY

Basically a chamber lock that you need a tool to remove. Use it like a snap cap.

I personally think trigger training is useful in dry fire so I don’t want to give that up.

Trigger training is definitely useful. I think often the low hanging fruit lays with vision. A good enough grip can cover shitty trigger many times. I do make a point to dryfire my DA occassionally, but it's a particular focus when I do it.

A blue gun just works well for my home firearm safety needs.

[Sal Picante]

Trigger training is definitely useful. I think often the low hanging fruit lays with vision. A good enough grip can cover shitty trigger many times. I do make a point to dryfire my DA occassionally, but it's a particular focus when I do it.

A blue gun just works well for my home firearm safety needs.

Especially when you just leave it out by the coffee maker...

p/Br5RtvbnHI7

[Sal Picante]

I've been really curious about this system... Might have to modify my garage to build it in there...

https://www.pointblanksimulator.com/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIdY4v8F0Uo

[Kirk]

I've been really curious about this system... Might have to modify my garage to build it in there...

https://www.pointblanksimulator.com/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIdY4v8F0Uo

Now *this* could be one of the first dry fire systems that is truly worthwhile IMO. At least, it has the potential to keep dry fire interesting and realistic for USPSA. I'm really tempted to give one of these a try.

[Sal Picante]

Now *this* could be one of the first dry fire systems that is truly worthwhile IMO. At least, it has the potential to keep dry fire interesting and realistic for USPSA. I'm really tempted to give one of these a try.

I logged a lot of time with the Virtra system years ago and liked it - most of that was scenario-based LE-context training.

I'll bet things have really progressed in the past few years.

[JCN]

I logged a lot of time with the Virtra system years ago and liked it - most of that was scenario-based LE-context training.

I'll bet things have really progressed in the past few years.

I used one recently that’s set up at a LGS and it was fun.

I have to see about maybe setting up one of my own firearms with a dot to use. The room is kind of low light and irons are hard to see.