Staggered Mini-9 Discussion

[Joe in PNG]

Figured it would be good to have a general, consolidated discussion of the virtues and vices of the various new tiny 10+ round 9mms.

Of the current reputable makers, we have:

-Glock 43x: works, but needs aftermarket mags for 15 rounds capacity
-Glock 48: the above, except the RSA should be bigger
-Sig P365: works, but it's a modern production Sig
-Shield Plus: a bit on the too new side

Which is what I've read here, but I've been wrong before. Please feel free to correct me.

[octagon]

You about hit the highlights for big names. The Glocks only need the S15 mags to be more size efficient. The factory mags work great just don't hold the capacity for the longer grip length. Also don't forget the Ruger Max 9 for more inexpensive offering if it suits you.

The Taurus GX4, Kimber R7 Mako are newer offerings in the same format and similar sized as is the Hellcat depending on what you consider major manufacturer. Obviously not as well respected but if you are like me proper vetting of any gun from any manufacturer is a must and some smaller OEMs are making good improvements or may offer something the others have missed out on( Backstraps, totally ambi for lefties)

[HCM]

Figured it would be good to have a general, consolidated discussion of the virtues and vices of the various new tiny 10+ round 9mms.

Of the current reputable makers, we have:

-Glock 43x: works, but needs aftermarket mags for 15 rounds capacity
-Glock 48: the above, except the RSA should be bigger
-Sig P365: works, but it's a modern production Sig
-Shield Plus: a bit on the too new side

Which is what I've read here, but I've been wrong before. Please feel free to correct me.

43X/48 share the same RSA one isn’t going to run better or worse than the other

P365 series works and has not had any issues outside one batch of oversized sight dovetails and one bad batch of takedown levers which has not re-occurred. Pretty damn good given the number of these things SIG has cranked out.

No direct experience with the new S&W other than it feels better in the hand than the Glocks or Sigs.

[Kirk]

I guess my only complaint with the P365XL is that the grip length is ever slightly too small for me with a 12 round mag. The G43x/G48 grip length is perfect imo. Just a personal preference there that is very, very subjective. I prefer everything else about the P365XL though.

Is the Hellcat even worth mentioning? I've heard so many mixed reviews but LTT selling an upgraded model has caught my attention.

[BillSWPA]

43X/48 share the same RSA one isn’t going to run better or worse than the other

P365 series works and has not had any issues outside one batch of oversized sight dovetails and one bad batch of takedown levers which has not re-occurred. Pretty damn good given the number of these things SIG has cranked out.

No direct experience with the new S&W other than it feels better in the hand than the Glocks or Sigs.

When was the bad batch of takedown levers?


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[HCM]

When was the bad batch of takedown levers?


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pre-covid

[TGS]

-Glock 43x: works, but needs aftermarket mags for 15 rounds capacity
-Glock 48: the above, except the RSA should be bigger

I don't think these should really be included in the category; the 43x is significantly larger than the P365, which is more the size of the 43 (actually slightly smaller). The stock configuration is not really staggered, and the Shield Arms magazines don't seem to be up-to-snuff. Someone is bound to chime in how theirs has been fine, but there's way too many reports of them being either unreliable at the very least picky and inconsistent.

I'd be curious to see how the Shield Arms mags functioned with a longer/stronger spring and say, 12 or 13 rounds. 15 seems to be a bridge too far.

[MandoWookie]

I don't think these should really be included in the category; the 43x is significantly larger than the P365, which is more the size of the 43 (actually slightly smaller). The stock configuration is not really staggered, and the Shield Arms magazines don't seem to be up-to-snuff. Someone is bound to chime in how theirs has been fine, but there's way too many reports of them being either unreliable at the very least picky and inconsistent.

I'd be curious to see how the Shield Arms mags functioned with a longer/stronger spring and say, 12 or 13 rounds. 15 seems to be a bridge too far.

My understanding is that the Shield Arms mags are literally just normal 15 round double stack Hi-power style mag bodies like nearly every gun since the Hi-power have used, just modified to fit front to back and with a Glock compatible mag release slot cut into them.
I have read that people have experienced worse reliability from these guns compared to the full size guns, with it getting worse as the RSA get higher round counts. It might not be the mag spring that is the culprit, but that the gun itself runs much closer to the edge of the envelope in terms of functionality, and because of the nearly full size grip and shoot ability, people are expecting them to function like a duty gun, when they are built off of a pocket gun. But it doesn't seem to have been engineered with that in mind.

[Bucky]

43X/48 share the same RSA one isn’t going to run better or worse than the other.

Sure, but the 48 may run better with a longer RSA, though obviously it would no longer share parts or be slide swappable with the 43/43X.

[lwt16]

I have a 43X and a P365. Both are, so far, proving to be reliable and accurate "summer carry" guns. The capacity of the 43X with the factory magazines isn't concerning to me. I do know people that have the S15 magazines and they are happy with them...but they aren't what I would call medium to high volume shooters.

The P365 with the 12 round magazine is a good choice. I'm intrigued with the P365X (slide of the 365 with the grip module of the 365XL) and I may get one in the future for the optics cut. I'm also planning on a Hellcat one day and if this H&K micro ever comes out, I'm sure either my son or I will pick up one of those as well.

I do run the 43X at speed better than the 365 simply because, for me, the grip of the 43X is easier to grab on to when drawing. At 25 yards on a B8 they are about neck in neck for me.

It's great to have so many options now. Years ago, finding something small and reliable was a bit of a challenge. I can remember struggling with a Colt Officer's model (weight and reliability) and longing for options like we have now.

Regards.

[gato naranja]

I have a 43X and a P365. Both are, so far, proving to be reliable and accurate "summer carry" guns.

It's great to have so many options now. Years ago, finding something small and reliable was a bit of a challenge.

The above is the way I should feel, but "reliable" is sort of a relative term- at least at the local level. (Awkward range moment #1: a shooter claims their "X" never malfunctions... after I see them clearing a malfunction.)

The Shield Plus is the only one of the current offerings I have even remotely enjoyed shooting, and "enjoyed" is also a relative term. I can see one replacing my NanX, but frankly, I am about burnt out trying to find a mini-9 I actually like better than a S&W 640.

[D-der]

I guess my only complaint with the P365XL is that the grip length is ever slightly too small for me with a 12 round mag. The G43x/G48 grip length is perfect imo. Just a personal preference there that is very, very subjective. I prefer everything else about the P365XL though.

Is the Hellcat even worth mentioning? I've heard so many mixed reviews but LTT selling an upgraded model has caught my attention.

I've found a Magguts +2 kit in my XL adds maybe 1/8 - 1/4,
just noticeable in grip but not enough to impact concealment,
especially AIWB.
I was apprehensive about carrying with the mag but, I've run
hundred's of mixed ball and 150 rds of 124gr HST (current
carry rd), fast, slow, mag dump, limp wrist etc and all have
fed, functioned 100% to proper slide lock with this mag, plus
14rds load easier than 12 with the original spring.
I've read that MG has tested the kit's to 6000 cycles,
which would eguate to 84,000rds
After yesterday's shooting, I see no obvious reason, that it
would be more likely to fail in the next 14rds than original equipment.
I have it in the gun for edc and will order a couple more and vet them
in similar fashion.
I guess time, and more ammo will tell.

[HeavyDuty]

This is a size pistol that is of great interest to me since I generally carry a small 9mm and just plain like little guns.

Back in the day it was first (briefly) an ASP, and then when the 3913 came out I grabbed the first one I saw. That was replaced with an early Shield which was my main carry gun until the 43 came out - that (along with the reduced gripframe on the 41) and the availability of SCDs were the events that lured me back to Glock after a ten year dalliance with M&Ps.

My main mini these days is still a 43, I actually picked up a second which currently has a Mepro Bullseye sight like the SIG P365 SAS as an experiment. I fully expect that second will end up getting milled for a RMRcc. I also recently picked up a P365 to see what the fuss is about, and am currently vetting it for carry - I may pick up a 12 round magazine for a reload. I do have a 43x (and a 48,) but to be honest I really don’t like the grip on the 10 round Glock slimlines - they pinch my palm. I never carry the 43x, I’ll always grab a 26 when I want something with more capacity than the 43.

A good friend is very slowly shopping for his first carry pistol. He shot my 43, 48 and 26, and also rented a Hellcat and a P365 (this was before I got mine.) I have to say the Hellcat was really impressive - reliable over the 200 rounds we shot and accurate. He may well end up with one, he’s balancing the smaller size against how well he shot my 26.

I don’t have an issue with the 6+1 provided by the 43, and I see one being my main carry for a long time to come.

[4RNR]

I tried the 43X, 365 & XL, and Hellcat.

This was an attempt to replace my 43, which I never warmed up to. I rented the 43X and thought it was great. Unfortunately after buying one I couldn't hit the broad side of the barn. That gun and I just didn't get along but the 15rd mags worked fine.
Replaced the 43X with the 365 but I hate little guns with little grips. I can't ever get good grip on one when it matters..... drawing from holster. But the 365 shot well so I kept it and added the XL.

I rented the Hellcat but don't remember much about it aside from the sight picture.

Also having owned the Walther PPS M1 and S&W Shield 1.0. the two smallest guns with full size grip feel were the PPS and 43X. 365XL is close behind. All others were a too much of a compromise and ultimately sold/traded off. Did I mention I hate little grips

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[lwt16]

The above is the way I should feel, but "reliable" is sort of a relative term- at least at the local level. (Awkward range moment #1: a shooter claims their "X" never malfunctions... after I see them clearing a malfunction.)

The Shield Plus is the only one of the current offerings I have even remotely enjoyed shooting, and "enjoyed" is also a relative term. I can see one replacing my NanX, but frankly, I am about burnt out trying to find a mini-9 I actually like better than a S&W 640.

Keep in mind that tiny guns are super easy to induce malfunctions by those that are a bit on the amateur side of the shooting coin. I've had a lot of folks come to me with small guns with the "this gun jams" complaint. Lots of riding the slide with a thumb, thumbing up the slide lock during firing, etc. From what I've seen, it's typically solved with grip changes on the shooter's part.

I had a student in a class once that couldn't get his 92FS to run.....a pistol well known for reliability with OEM magazines which is all he possessed. I assumed a bad recoil spring and went to change it out and in doing so, figured out that the pistol hadn't been oiled since it left Maryland. A drop or two of oil solved it and his malfunctions never returned.

Then there's the "this gun shoots low/left" but that is another story altogether.

We have two copies of the 365 at the house and neither have malfunctioned to date. Even my son has been able to run that gun without inducing malfunctions like he has with other pistols. He called me in a panic once because his brand new Glock 19X was stovepiping. When I got home, I told him to show me his grip during a dry fire session and he was digging his support thumb into the slide so hard I was surprised his live fire session hadn't transferred the coyote color to his thumbprint. He went back to the range, stopped slowing the slide with that thumb and like magic, the problems went away.

Regards.

[gato naranja]

Keep in mind that tiny guns are super easy to induce malfunctions by those that are a bit on the amateur side of the shooting coin. I've had a lot of folks come to me with small guns with the "this gun jams" complaint. Lots of riding the slide with a thumb, thumbing up the slide lock during firing, etc. From what I've seen, it's typically solved with grip changes on the shooter's part.

Therein lies one of the rubs- there are people who think they absolutely HAVE to have a particular gun (SIG 365, I am currently looking at you) or they won't be cool. Or their genitalia will alter size, or... or something. Then the new hotness becomes a bad partner, be it due to grip-to-hand interface, amount of training, mindset, whatever. These things are touchy, and there is no getting around it; I am amazed they work as well as they do for so many people.

If there is one mini-9 to rule them all, I am just not seeing it with my own eyes yet.

[lwt16]

Therein lies one of the rubs- there are people who think they absolutely HAVE to have a particular gun (SIG 365, I am currently looking at you) or they won't be cool. Or their genitalia will alter size, or... or something. Then the new hotness becomes a bad partner, be it due to grip-to-hand interface, amount of training, mindset, whatever. These things are touchy, and there is no getting around it; I am amazed they work as well as they do for so many people.

If there is one mini-9 to rule them all, I am just not seeing it with my own eyes yet.

Yeah, I see a lot of that too. Something new drops and credit cards get pulled out.

Since I have a lot of folks in my social circle, I get to see a good bit of new pieces and try them out prior to buying. The P365 when it came out was no exception. I was assisting a class and one of the students had one. I asked if I could check it out while they were in PowerPoint hades and I took it down to our range. After seeing what it could do at 25 yards, I was definitely intrigued......when I figured out it fit my Galco Ankle glove that was for my G42, I decided that I'd probably get one eventually. Eventually turned into months of waiting until the striker breakage was addressed and it had more "street" time. Shot different copies and finally purchased one from a police supply house.

I'm the type that instead of deciding which one rules I'll just buy them all. With ammo being double the price, that has slowed significantly.

Regards.

[HCM]

Sure, but the 48 may run better with a longer RSA, though obviously it would no longer share parts or be slide swappable with the 43/43X.

Reliability is THE most important quality for a defensive handgun.

Without reliability the rest is irrelevant.

[pastaslinger]

I hate how the G43x/48 shoot relative to their size, I find the G26 far more pleasant.

I have not shot a p365 in a while but have nearly bought a p365xl multiple times.... I am still considering one but worry about Sig's quality. I do like the idea of direct mounting a holosun 507k to it without a plate.

The m&p shield plus performance center really impressed me. A friend got one of the ported ones and it is very pleasant to shoot. I would love to get a ported one that's optic ready but it seems they make you buy the crimson trace optic as well as the, in my opinion, horrible triple fiber optic sights, which adds a lot to the cost for things I will remove anyways.

I have no experience with the Ruger max9, Springfield Hellcat, nor Kimber Mako.


As a last note, I highly recommend checking out the LCP max even though it's .380 and not 9mm. It's a very small gun with a lot of performance and I think it's ready to go out of the box, sights included. You just need more mags.

[frozentundra]

I would like to transition to an optic ready, long barreled version of these guns for all of my carry purposes, BUT:

Shield Plus 4" Optic Ready-
Great ergonomics and size. However, no provision for a frame rail to attach a TLR-7 sub or equivalent light. Also, they will not sell me one without CT RDS installed like a more annoying/expensive version of Glock plastic sights, and the footprint still requires modification to install a Holosun "K" footprint RDS as I understand it.


Sig P365XL-
Nice little gun. I've carried one a bit. However, the grip frame is just a tad bit too small for me to replace a larger gun in terms of draw index and shootabillity. So close. Very concealable, but I don't personally need it to be quite that concealable.


Glock 48 MOS-
I just don't like what they did with the recoil spring assembly. I don't trust it to feed defensive hollowpoint ammo reliably over time because of this. Perhaps I'm being silly, but I can't shake the impression. It's a pity.



I think an optic ready Shield Plus 4" with a decent red dot and frame rail would do 95% of anything I need a pistol to do. Based on how long it took S&W to produce a 15 round grip frame for the M&P, I will not be expecting this any time soon.

A railed, optic ready, 4" Shield Plus with an extended grip frame that only accepted 13 round mags without spacer would make an interesting hybrid of a duty/carry pistol. It's my dream gun. We will never see one.

[45dotACP]

I'd be interested to hear what LangdonTactical has to say about the Hellcat. I'm seeing a LTT page about them and I'm intrigued as to what about them appeals to a guy like Ernest over their contemporaries.

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[FNFAN]

Interesting to see the Wilson X9s didn't make the original list. I had an opportunity to run a few mags through the SIG 365x and found it very accurate and with a surprisingly manageable trigger. The grip was so small however, I could only put the ridge of my support hand on the grip. I've had a Glock 26 Gen3 and didn't enjoy shooting that with or without an extension and while it was accurate, I found it unappealing and sold it. Enter the Wilson EDC X9. I shot a friend's gun after a match and it was pretty much a "Wow!" moment. Shoots like a much larger gun, enough grip for a good support hand purchase. Flush magazines offer 10+1 and the extended mag doesn't do much to make it less concealable and brings the count up to 15+1. One of the little plusses for me and the EDC X9/X9s are the magazines. Very high quality and easy to load. Loading SIG 365x mags immediately took me back to the days of loading Colt Woodsman .22 mags with that rough scratchy snaggy feel. It is a few ounces heavier than the listed guns, but for me it hits the 3 Bears "Juuuust Right" spot.


76732

X9s vs SIG 365x


76733

X9s vs G26

Shout out to the Handgun Hero (https://www.handgunhero.com) sight for their easy overlay comparison tool.

[octagon]

I would like to transition to an optic ready, long barreled version of these guns for all of my carry purposes, BUT:

Shield Plus 4" Optic Ready-
Great ergonomics and size. However, no provision for a frame rail to attach a TLR-7 sub or equivalent light. Also, they will not sell me one without CT RDS installed like a more annoying/expensive version of Glock plastic sights, and the footprint still requires modification to install a Holosun "K" footprint RDS as I understand it.


Sig P365XL-
Nice little gun. I've carried one a bit. However, the grip frame is just a tad bit too small for me to replace a larger gun in terms of draw index and shootabillity. So close. Very concealable, but I don't personally need it to be quite that concealable.


Glock 48 MOS-
I just don't like what they did with the recoil spring assembly. I don't trust it to feed defensive hollowpoint ammo reliably over time because of this. Perhaps I'm being silly, but I can't shake the impression. It's a pity.



I think an optic ready Shield Plus 4" with a decent red dot and frame rail would do 95% of anything I need a pistol to do. Based on how long it took S&W to produce a 15 round grip frame for the M&P, I will not be expecting this any time soon.

A railed, optic ready, 4" Shield Plus with an extended grip frame that only accepted 13 round mags without spacer would make an interesting hybrid of a duty/carry pistol. It's my dream gun. We will never see one.

Consider the Mossberg MC2C and do an optic cut. It is basically identical in size to the Glock 48 or 4" Shield plus but has a accessory rail and full length RSA. Glock like function and internals and has 13 round metal mags OEM.

The Arex Delta M Gen 2 is also very close in size but starts with 15 round mags.

I am in similar position/thinking but the 365XL actually fits my hand well.

[4RNR]

I would like to transition to an optic ready, long barreled version of these guns for all of my carry purposes, BUT:

Shield Plus 4" Optic Ready-
Great ergonomics and size. However, no provision for a frame rail to attach a TLR-7 sub or equivalent light. Also, they will not sell me one without CT RDS installed like a more annoying/expensive version of Glock plastic sights, and the footprint still requires modification to install a Holosun "K" footprint RDS as I understand it.


Sig P365XL-
Nice little gun. I've carried one a bit. However, the grip frame is just a tad bit too small for me to replace a larger gun in terms of draw index and shootabillity. So close. Very concealable, but I don't personally need it to be quite that concealable.


Glock 48 MOS-
I just don't like what they did with the recoil spring assembly. I don't trust it to feed defensive hollowpoint ammo reliably over time because of this. Perhaps I'm being silly, but I can't shake the impression. It's a pity.



I think an optic ready Shield Plus 4" with a decent red dot and frame rail would do 95% of anything I need a pistol to do. Based on how long it took S&W to produce a 15 round grip frame for the M&P, I will not be expecting this any time soon.

A railed, optic ready, 4" Shield Plus with an extended grip frame that only accepted 13 round mags without spacer would make an interesting hybrid of a duty/carry pistol. It's my dream gun. We will never see one.

Wouldn't the Shield+ 4" be about the same thing as the 365xl? They're in the same category. The 365xl has a 3.7" barrel, is optics ready, has rail and comes in 12 flush /15 extended round mag.

As far as I can remember the shield it has a slightly larger grip but that's about it

EDIT
Actually now that I look at the dimensions the Shield+4 isn't all that far from a G19

https://www.handgunhero.com/compare/glock-g19-vs-smith-wesson-m-p-9-shield-plus-4

[frozentundra]

Wouldn't the Shield+ 4" be about the same thing as the 365xl? They're in the same category. The 365xl has a 3.7" barrel, is optics ready, has rail and comes in 12 flush /15 extended round mag.

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We have a P365 XL. I think It's a great pistol for a certain purpose, but I find even the original S&W Shield 3.1" with an 8 round magazine to be more controllable and much easier to grip/index on the draw. I think it's mostly because of grip size/shape. Something about the 365 XL grip just doesn't interface well with my hands, and I don't have extra large hands. This makes it more of a deep concealment gun for me, and not a true M&P 2.0 Compact/G19 replacement. It works better for other members of household and their purposes. I don't find the Shield extended magazines much harder to conceal, but they do seem quite a bit easier for me to grip.


I have never tried the XL with the 15 round mags. They look crazy big to me. Probably outside of my Goldilocks zone.

[TGS]

Interesting to see the Wilson X9s didn't make the original list.

It's a "traditional" double-stack pistol like the G26, not a staggered-slimline or whatever this new genre is called that cuts the difference between a traditional double stack and traditional single stack. It's significantly thicker than the P365 and gang.

[Mitch]

I think the P365 is really the gun to beat in this segment. The guns run and shoot well. And there are parts and holsters available. The only problems I have with one is I’ve shot glocks for so long I naturally push sigs a little low, and I’m not sure where I come down on the 320. I’d like a pair of micro 9s and something the size of a glock 19/45 for training, home defense, and to be a little more enjoyable to shoot.

I don’t know if that means a pair of 365s and a 320. I know it’s not a 43x/48 and glock 45. To me the 43X/48 is a 10 round glock 19 with more questionable reliability. Not for me.

If shield plus mags were available I’d probably have one of those and an M&P compact.

Right now I have 1 p365. I don’t see anything else in the market that I would go for, unless the shield magazine situation changes. If that doesn’t happen soon and I get set up with 365 mags, holsters, and a spare gun, then that’s it for me.

[Wonder9]

Therein lies one of the rubs- there are people who think they absolutely HAVE to have a particular gun (SIG 365, I am currently looking at you) or they won't be cool. Or their genitalia will alter size, or... or something.


If there is one mini-9 to rule them all, I am just not seeing it with my own eyes yet.


76736

I can bash modern Sig Sauer all day long, but the P365 really eats the lunch of other micro 9s.

[HCM]

Interesting to see the Wilson X9s didn't make the original list.

Agree with TGS the X9, G26 etc are double stack guns and not relevant here. Regardless of their capacity or subcompact length and height they are full thickness guns and thus “carry” differently.

The attraction of stagger mag guns is they “carry” like single stack guns..

I pocket snd ankle carried a G26 for several years and it’s a small brick.

[gato naranja]

76736

I can bash modern Sig Sauer all day long, but the P365 really eats the lunch of other micro 9s.

Size-wise, probably. At least until the next new Gromaz* comes around.

For me, it is like all modern SIGs: totally unfriendly to my hands/fingers... it also pushes compactness to where I constantly have some part of an appendage either out in space or some place where it shouldn't be.

*Größter Mini aller Zeiten

[FNFAN]

Agree with TGS the X9, G26 etc are double stack guns and not relevant here. Regardless of their capacity or subcompact length and height they are full thickness guns and thus “carry” differently.

The attraction of stagger mag guns is they “carry” like single stack guns..

I pocket snd ankle carried a G26 for several years and it’s a small brick.

Granted, to some the 0.15" difference in thickness between the X9s and the 365x would matter a lot. There's the same 0.15" difference between the X9s and the EDC X9 and the X9s feels thinner -so point taken.

[pastaslinger]

What's the current state of the P365 XL or P365X? They sound like they fit what I want the best, but I worry about the past reported issues like broken strikers. Are the current models having any problems?

[BillSWPA]

I cannot compare the P365 to anything else being discussed in this thread, but I do have two of these guns, one purchased in the summer of 2019, and the other purchased this past summer.

The first of these has become the gun on my person about 98% of the time. With flat base pad 10 round magazines, it is a game changer for pocket carry. With 12 round magazines, it splits the difference between a G19 and G26 while being thinner than both, making it ideal for IWB carry. Unlike my G19, it has not yet poked a hole in any of my shirts.

Both guns have a low round count at this point, but so far have been 100% reliable.

If the gun is disassembled for cleaning, do not move the takedown lever from the takedown position, or reassembling the gun will be a challenge.

The factory night sights are very nice, but went dim after about 2 years on my first example. That gun now has Night Fision sights.

I do not see myself using either of these guns with a mounted light, but for anyone who does, a Streamlight TLR-7 will not fit, but a NightStick single CR123 weapon light will fit.

Holsters, magazine pouches, etc. seem readily available. I use either an Aholster pocket holster or JM Custom Kydex IWB #3 to carry mine.

Other than having to re-acquire the sights after each shot, recoil is quite comfortable. Last weekend, I shot 270 rounds through the newer gun, and would have continued had my wife not called me home for dinner. I would like to have my wife try this gun to see how she likes it.

My only complaint is the grip angle, which is noticeably more vertical than Glock. I have not previously noticed the difference in grip angle between a Glock and 1911 throwing off my draws from a holster when transitioning between those two guns, but the grip angle of the P365 required some adjustments after using Glocks almost exclusively for well over a decade.

If Sig ever comes out with a .22 lr. version of the P365, I will buy it as soon as I can for practice.

[HCM]

What's the current state of the P365 XL or P365X? They sound like they fit what I want the best, but I worry about the past reported issues like broken strikers. Are the current models having any problems?

Broken strikers was an issue with the the initial P365s. I was fixed long before the 365XL was even a thing and has not re-appeared in either platform.

I've seen two issues with POW P365s at my agency both of which appear to have been one time "bad batch" issues: Some out of takedown levers with rough edges causing issues taking the slide off for field stripping (but no functional issues); Some sight dovetails cut oversize resulting in sights drifting under recoil.

The guns flat out run and IME they are the best gun SIG makes.

[DiscipulusArmorum]

What's the current state of the P365 XL or P365X? They sound like they fit what I want the best, but I worry about the past reported issues like broken strikers. Are the current models having any problems?

Not sure if you would consider it a "problem", but some have reported rust issues. GJM posted a pic in another thread of his 365XL with a rusty sight dovetail. The mags and mag catch area seem to be the most commonly complained about area for rust, and I can attest that my mags started getting surface rust after just a few days sitting on an indoor shelf, even after being oiled. Would hate to see what they would have looked like after a few days of IWB carry in the Georgia summer. Some people get their mags coated or are able to find a rust preventative that works. Plenty of people have no issues, though, even in very humid conditions.

[JPedersen]

Is the Hellcat even worth mentioning? I've heard so many mixed reviews but LTT selling an upgraded model has caught my attention.

I am curious of the same thing. Especially since there is a thumb safety version now. I know I am in the minority , but I would love to see a functional thumb safety on a micro nine or a hammer fired micro nine … I think a true da/sa micro nine is out of the picture given its complexity and the form factor.


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[TheNewbie]

I am curious of the same thing. Especially since there is a thumb safety version now. I know I am in the minority , but I would love to see a functional thumb safety on a micro nine or a hammer fired micro nine … I think a true da/sa micro nine is out of the picture given its complexity and the form factor.


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I’m with you. A useable TS or even a DAO smaller gun would be nice.

[HeavyDuty]

I am curious of the same thing. Especially since there is a thumb safety version now. I know I am in the minority , but I would love to see a functional thumb safety on a micro nine or a hammer fired micro nine … I think a true da/sa micro nine is out of the picture given its complexity and the form factor.


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I’m with you. A useable TS or even a DAO smaller gun would be nice.

The P365 I picked up is the MS variant - I’m finding it very usable.

[TheNewbie]

The P365 I picked up is the MS variant - I’m finding it very usable.

Really? I thought it looked borderline at best. May easy to off safe but hard to put on safe.


If I’m wrong about that, then color me happy.

[HeavyDuty]

Really? I thought it looked borderline at best. May easy to off safe but hard to put on safe.


If I’m wrong about that, then color me happy.

Is that fuschia?

Seriously, thought - my hand size works well with it. I’d actually love to see a slightly larger MS on a P365XL.

[D-der]

My 1/19 DOM 365 has just under 3000rds and my
7/19 DOM XL has close to 5000 with 0 malfunctions

[BigT]

The G48 recoil spring argument is peculiar to me. There's not a gun on this list I would run past 2000 rounds on the spring, and I would most likely change at 1000 (which is what I do with the 48 anyway) There's also not a gun on this list I would carry loaded with +P or +P+ ammo.

[BillSWPA]

I carry my P365 with +P ammo. Although my round count with this ammo is low, it has been 100% reliable with all ammo I have tried.

I also change recoil springs frequently, and purchased a few replacements shortly after buying the gun. For a full size gun, I have seen recommendations of 2,000-5,000 rounds. Rohrbaugh recommended changing the recoil springs every 100 rounds in their tiny 9mm. For a small but not absolutely tiny 9mm, 1,000-2,000 rounds seems to make sense.


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[D-der]

I believe Sig recommends 2500 rds,
I'd think a diet of +P's would shorten that

[BillSWPA]

I do not see a reason for a steady diet of +P once reliability is determined, unless a police department requires training with duty ammo. I would rather prolong the life of the gun with standard pressure practice ammo. The difference in recoil is noticeable but not large.


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[CCT125US]

Made the switch to the P2000sk about 6 months ago. Prior to that it was only carried occasionally. Based on dimensions, it's in the ballpark. Performance wise, it does everything I ask of it. Including standard metrics and accuracy.

G43X / P2000SK

Dimensions
Glock G43X MOS
Length: 6.5 in
Height: 5.04 in
Width: 1.1 in
Weight: 18.55 oz
Barrel: 3.41 in
Heckler & Koch P2000 SK
Length: 6.4 in
Height: 4.55 in
Width: 1.27 in
Weight: 24 oz
Barrel: 3.26 in

[HCM]

The G48 recoil spring argument is peculiar to me. There's not a gun on this list I would run past 2000 rounds on the spring, and I would most likely change at 1000 (which is what I do with the 48 anyway) There's also not a gun on this list I would carry loaded with +P or +P+ ammo.

I can tell you from both personal and professional experience that:

G43s do not function well with +P ammo. The G43 RSA and the G48 RSA, make of that what you will

The P365 and P365XL function well with +P ammo.

[MistWolf]

There may be pistols in this category better than the P365 but I like the P365 well enough with the 12 round mag I feel no desire to go looking. I've shot and compared the Glock 43 with the P365. I didn't care for the Glock. I do like how soft the Glock 42 shoots.


If the gun is disassembled for cleaning, do not move the takedown lever from the takedown position, or reassembling the gun will be a challenge.

If the take down lever moves out of position (which it'll do easily) just push up on the slide release and swing the take down lever down once more. Pulling the trigger while disassembled also moves the lever out of position.

[RJ]

I'm pondering options on slimline guns after going through a P365XL (not robust enough), P365 (wife's, but too small for me anyway), G43X (too snappy) and a direct milled G48 that did not prove reliable enough with carry ammo. Since selling the G48, I picked up a G19 Gen 5 MOS+507c, which I am pretty happy with AIWB for daily carry, but want something between that and the Ruger LCR which I use for taking the trash out. For this purpose, I probably just stick with irons; I'm not sure a dot fits into my use case for a thin 10 round subcompact.

I was going to go rent a G43, but 6+1 in OEM mags, plus the apparent lack of availability of SCDs has gotten me widening the aperture of small single stack 9s beyond Glocks, and well, here I am in this thread.

So, specifically: With regard to the Shield Plus (3.1" barrel, SKU 13249), these have been out for what, since March this year? How have they been faring? Any recurring issues or common problems?

[Beat Trash]

I’ve had a Shield Plus for a while now. I’m less than 500 rounds through mine, but no issues. There are subtitle changes to the shape of the grip from the Gen 1/2 Shields. But the changes to the grip make a substantial improvement in my opinion. I really like the stock flat faced trigger.

The only complaint was a lack of spare magazines. But 2 x 13 round magazines showed up in the mail from Brownells yesterday. So they are starting to ship them.

My “little” 9mm quest to date is S&W 3913, Kahr PM9, Shield Gen1 G43, G43x, Sig P365. For my hand size, the Shield Plus stands out above all the others.

[BobM]

I have my Shield Plus on now. I like it much better than the original Shield as the grip seems more solid in my hand. I only have 100-150 rounds through it but also recently received more magazines. I was carrying a 2.0 Compact 40 but the Plus gives me the same round count in a smaller, lighter package. It is somewhat less “shootable” than a larger pistol. I shot the FBI PQC with it and dropped a few rounds where I typically do not with a bigger pistol.

[HeavyDuty]

I'm pondering options on slimline guns after going through a P365XL (not robust enough), P365 (wife's, but too small for me anyway), G43X (too snappy) and a direct milled G48 that did not prove reliable enough with carry ammo. Since selling the G48, I picked up a G19 Gen 5 MOS+507c, which I am pretty happy with AIWB for daily carry, but want something between that and the Ruger LCR which I use for taking the trash out. For this purpose, I probably just stick with irons; I'm not sure a dot fits into my use case for a thin 10 round subcompact.

I was going to go rent a G43, but 6+1 in OEM mags, plus the apparent lack of availability of SCDs has gotten me widening the aperture of small single stack 9s beyond Glocks, and well, here I am in this thread.

So, specifically: With regard to the Shield Plus (3.1" barrel, SKU 13249), these have been out for what, since March this year? How have they been faring? Any recurring issues or common problems?

What issues were you having with the P365XL?

[Wonder9]

G43X / P2000SK

Dimensions
Glock G43X MOS
Length: 6.5 in
Height: 5.04 in
Width: 1.1 in
Weight: 18.55 oz
Barrel: 3.41 in
Heckler & Koch P2000 SK
Length: 6.4 in
Height: 4.55 in
Width: 1.27 in
Weight: 24 oz
Barrel: 3.26 in

The problem (for me) is the weight aspect when considering the P2Ksk or other small double stack 9s. While dimensions are smaller, the weight puts it into unloaded G19 and loaded G26/P365/43x territory. I had the PX4sc years ago, but the weight made it feel like a brick on the hip despite the small dimensions.

YMMV

[RJ]

What issues were you having with the P365XL?

Well, let's see. I owned it four months and shot 641 rounds. It had no malfunctions, and was accurate. Felt great in the hand. I carried it in a Vedder Lighttuck behind the hip, or pocket carried it in a Desantis Nemesis. I flew to SLC with it last year and brought it on a two-week vacation driving trip through the mountains. It carried fine.

I bought an OWB holster and took it to a USPSA match. Reloading a dropped mag after a stage, I noticed the follower had barfed out the top of the tube. I kinda sorta just stuffed it back in on the spot, but that startled me. Later I found you could literally lever the followers out of the tube fairly easily with a plastic fork, which was not confidence inspiring.

It also had this odd "hitch" in the take up of the trigger, which I traced to the FCU rocking back and forth about 0.1" in the grip module. It only manifested itself in Dry Practice. Lastly, I read persistent accounts of rust at the sights, as well on magazines. Not helping matters was the affordability was the cost of Sig magazines, which were in Arm and Leg territory.

At the time I wanted to transition to AIWB, and I was coming from a perspective of a gadget-equipped Glock. Plus, well, Sig. So, like I said, it was not robust enough for what I wanted.

I switched to Gen 5 Glocks in 2017 in large part due to the SCD, and have been content shooting them since. Having been through the G43X and G48, the next most obvious answer is a G43. I'm seeing a lot of activity from Shield Arms which would indicate their long-awaited aftermarket G43 mag is to be released. A reliable 9 (or 10?) round Glock 43 would be great; "but" I would really want to have an SCD if I was going to stay with a Glock, carrying AIWB. Plus, I didn't like the P365 size, and based on shooting a rental G43 a while ago, it is really small for me.

So, with the apparent lack of availability of SCDs at the moment, and no information about when they might be available, I might as well consider other SFA options.

Hence the Shield Plus. I really need to go find one of these to rent.

[HeavyDuty]

I remember the mag follower issue you had now. I need to look at mine - I have two ten round and one 12.