Tales of the Stakeout Squad

[awp_101]

I've heard about this for years but never read it. A month or so ago the Stakeout Squad was mentioned in a podcast or two I was listening to (maybe Scott Reitz's podcast) so I went looking for the book. I didn't know it was out of print but some digging turned up a revised and expanded version available from Paul Kirchner. He retained the rights when Paladin Press went under and then he went back through his notes and interviews to add more to the book.

He's self publishing it and selling them on Gunbroker (https://www.gunbroker.com/item/910163155)

I ordered a copy on a Friday last month and had it in my hand the following Tuesday. Now if I would just make the time to read it...:rolleyes:

[JCN]

It’s a really good read.

[JAH 3rd]

Our PD didn't have a stakeout squad. So back in the mid-80's, overnight vehicles at the local Holiday Inn and Howard Johnson motels were being broken into on a weekly basis, but random enough making future B&Es unpredictable. So another officer and I decided to stakeout a motel on one of our off days. Happened to pick the Holiday Inn.

So as the night progressed, we see a car circle the lot.....then twice more. On his last trip around the parking lot, he backed in beside a station wagon loaded to the hilt. He got out of his car and a few seconds later you could hear the metallic sound of the slim Jim going inside the door. Then the interior light came on. He started loading up his car with stuff out of the wagon. We rushed up from behind him and took him into custody. This arrest cleared several of the motel vehicle break-ins. Unlucky for him, this occurred on Friday the 13th.

A fond memory from years gone by.

[UNM1136]

Great book! I got it through interlibrary loan when I read it.

Side rant. Make use if your taxpayer funded public libraries! I don't have the room to store any more books, so 90% of my purchases for the last 5 years or so have been ebooks. But ILL is AWESOME! Decide before you buy. Screen books as loaners first. I got the Kuhnhausen manuals that way, and decided I didn't have enough money for the tools required to start 'smithing.

A tour of my local library revealed 19th century copies of Les Miserables. Books from the 1700s. Seeing textbooks from the 30s-60s is a real goof! A lot of fun.

Side rant off.

pat

[Guerrero]

Mas wrote a blog post about it last year (https://www.backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/a-great-book-new-and-improved/).

[HCM]

Our PD didn't have a stakeout squad. So back in the mid-80's, overnight vehicles at the local Holiday Inn and Howard Johnson motels were being broken into on a weekly basis, but random enough making future B&Es unpredictable. So another officer and I decided to stakeout a motel on one of our off days. Happened to pick the Holiday Inn.

So as the night progressed, we see a car circle the lot.....then twice more. On his last trip around the parking lot, he backed in beside a station wagon loaded to the hilt. He got out of his car and a few seconds later you could hear the metallic sound of the slim Jim going inside the door. Then the interior light came on. He started loading up his car with stuff out of the wagon. We rushed up from behind him and took him into custody. This arrest cleared several of the motel vehicle break-ins. Unlucky for him, this occurred on Friday the 13th.

A fond memory from years gone by.

The NYPD stakeout squad was not a general purpose surveillance or even career criminal unit targeting particular individuals.

The NYPD “stakeout” squad was targeted specifically towards armed robbers, many of whom became dead armed robbers when confronted in the act. This was …. Controversial.

Rather they set up in and around locations targeted for armed robberies.

It was the product of confluence of events. A financial crisis lead to police budget cuts and hiring freeze which coincided with a massive spike in armed robberies and other violent crime. The police hiring freeze lead to a surplus of police firearms instructors who normally trained new recruits and were now idle. Someone decided an “all star” unit made up of firearms instructors was the perfect solution to the wave of armed robberies.

They were very successful which lead to accusations of being an “execution” squad and the eventual disbanding of the unit.

[JohnO]

May also want to listen to Mas interviewing Bill Allard about his days with Jim Cirillo on the NYC Stakeout Unit.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTq_HnXk41Y

[peterb]

Side rant. Make use if your taxpayer funded public libraries!

https://www.libraryextension.com/

Very cool tool for finding books at your local library.

[JAH 3rd]

Thanks for the info!

[lwt16]

Purchased. Thanks for the link.

[BobM]

Thanks for the post. I have the original but wasn’t aware of the updated edition. My check will be going out Tuesday.

[PD Sgt.]

Thanks for posting the link, ordered.

[1911Nut]

Sent Paul a PayPal payment today.

[Stephanie B]

Sent Paul a PayPal payment today.

I'm mailing a check on Tuesday.

[lwt16]

Great seller. He already has me a tracking number and said he would ship tomorrow.

I went ahead and ordered another Cirillo book off Amazon to accompany it.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078SP8JHH/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i0

Finishing up a 700 plus page fictional yarn so I am looking forward to these getting here soon. I read a lot about Cirillo, Allard, and the SOU in my youth in various magazines.

[Inkwell 41]

Thank you for the link! Ordered last night and mailed the check today.

[lwt16]

Took two days to finish. Couldn’t put it down.

[awp_101]

I really hope Mr Kirchner is having a “WTH?” moment in a good way with these orders...:D

[blues]

I may have to break down and order a copy.

[Coyotesfan97]

I really hope Mr Kirchner is having a “WTH?” moment in a good way with these orders...:D

That’s funny I had the same thought after I ordered mine.

[Coyotesfan97]

I may have to break down and order a copy.

Do it!

[blues]

Do it!

So, I have to register a gunbroker account to buy it, or is there another way?

(Yeah, I know I'm a commie for not already having an account with them. :cool:)

[jlw]

I have an e-copy of the original version. My Gunbroker account no longer works. I'm not going to "fix" it as I don't need an avenue to spend money.

For a recount of a similar unit, check out Holloway's Raiders (https://www.amazon.com/Holloways-Raiders-History-Departments-Shotgun/dp/1495810275) which chronicles the Dallas PD Shotgun Squads.

[Inkwell 41]

Got a confirmation that my copy is in the mail.

[blues]

I have an e-copy of the original version. My Gunbroker account no longer works. I'm not going to "fix" it as I don't need an avenue to spend money.

For a recount of a similar unit, check out Holloway's Raiders (https://www.amazon.com/Holloways-Raiders-History-Departments-Shotgun/dp/1495810275) which chronicles the Dallas PD Shotgun Squads.

Thanks for that, Lee. I ordered "Holloway's Raiders" while I await an email reply from Mr. Kirchner.

[BobM]

Got a confirmation that my copy is in the mail.

So did I, but I would not have thought he could have received my check already.

[Inkwell 41]

So did I, but I would not have thought he could have received my check already.

Same here. Mine went out Tuesday from Florida. Must have been a good week for the USPS.

[blues]

I got an email back from Paul and he mentioned that Pistol-Forum has been driving his sales for the past week or ten days. :cool:

He mentioned he had a couple of books left and is getting another shipment around the 20th.

Hopefully, one of the couple he has left will be heading my way.

Ordered and paid.

[blues]

...and tracking number received...:cool:


That's gotta be some kind of record. (Even Tom Jones' "Tau Development Group" could hardly top that...on a Saturday night, no less.)

[StraitR]

I have an e-copy of the original version. My Gunbroker account no longer works. I'm not going to "fix" it as I don't need an avenue to spend money.

For a recount of a similar unit, check out Holloway's Raiders (https://www.amazon.com/Holloways-Raiders-History-Departments-Shotgun/dp/1495810275) which chronicles the Dallas PD Shotgun Squads.

That is an excellent read. Bought a copy years ago when it was recommended in one of the shotgun threads. Well worth the E-book price.

[arcticlightfighter]

Mines on the way …

[jtcarm]

I have an e-copy of the original version. My Gunbroker account no longer works. I'm not going to "fix" it as I don't need an avenue to spend money.

For a recount of a similar unit, check out Holloway's Raiders (https://www.amazon.com/Holloways-Raiders-History-Departments-Shotgun/dp/1495810275) which chronicles the Dallas PD Shotgun Squads.

That’s funny, I was just going to comment about how they used the very unpretentious name “shotgun squad” when I was a kid growing up in Texas.

Now I’m off to Amazon.

[arcticlightfighter]

Finished my collection 77049

[blues]

^^^^

Putting a gun to Jim's head is never a good idea...

;)

[FrankB]

^^^^
Putting a gun to Jim's head is never a good idea...
;)

Massad Ayoob said every time he hears “Shot Center of Mass” he cringes. 😁

[WobblyPossum]

I actually re-read my copy of Guns, Bullets and Gunfights earlier this year. It had been so long since I last read it that I forgot how much good information was contained within. I’ll be picking up a copy of this book soon.

[Coyotesfan97]

I got my copy yesterday and started digging in.

[1911Nut]

I got my copy yesterday and started digging in.

Me too.

[Inkwell 41]

My copy arrived today. awp_101, thank you for posting the link to this!

[ragnar_d]

I ordered a copy back in December when I found out about it. I couldn’t get the order in fast enough. I was pretty happy to get a book that had been missing from my collection for a while without spending a substantial sum for it.

[blues]

Got my copy in the mail today.

I'm reasonably sure that Jim Cirillo was our lead firearms instructor when I went through basic agent training at FLETC in 1983.

Pretty cool to have trained on the 2.5" Model 19 under the watchful instruction of a legend.

[ECVMatt]

Got my copy in the mail today.

I'm reasonably sure that Jim Cirillo was our lead firearms instructor when I went through basic agent training at FLETC in 1983.

Pretty cool to have trained on the 2.5" Model 19 under the watchful instruction of a legend.

That is unbelievable; you are indeed a lucky man!

On a side note, my copy arrived a couple of days after I placed my order. What a great book!

[Coyotesfan97]

Got my copy in the mail today.

I'm reasonably sure that Jim Cirillo was our lead firearms instructor when I went through basic agent training at FLETC in 1983.

Pretty cool to have trained on the 2.5" Model 19 under the watchful instruction of a legend.

That’s awesome!

[Stephanie B]

Got my copy yesterday.

[blues]

About a quarter of the way through the book and I have to laugh because I'm familiar with several of the locations mentioned.

The "Farm Store" shootout, which is the first one described, was a few blocks from where my wife lived in the Seven-Five, and about a half mile from where I lived on the Queens side of the Brooklyn / Queens border. (It was right near the funeral home my father in law had his wake at.)

It really helps to be able to put the locations in your mind's eye as you read about the setups they had.

Good read so far...but it needs an edit or two here and there regarding place names and such that wouldn't be apparent to those not native to the area or more familiar with some of the sites mentioned.

[Stephanie B]

I went ahead and ordered another Cirillo book off Amazon to accompany it.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078SP8JHH/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i0

I bought a Kindle copy and returned it because it was unreadable on my Kindle (6th generation paperwhite). The software is current on it.

Apparently, Amazon is now putting out books that can't be read anything other than the newest Kindles in the hopes that we'll replace them. They're getting to be as evil as Microsoft.

[Dave T]

Apparently, Amazon is now putting out books that can't be read anything other than the newest Kindles in the hopes that we'll replace them. They're getting to be as evil as Microsoft.

My wife and I closed our Amazon Prime account last year when we learned they donated something like $2M to the very anti police Black Lives Matter. We miss the convenience but we're not supporting a corporation that doesn't give a shit about Law Enforcement.

Dave

[lwt16]

I bought a Kindle copy and returned it because it was unreadable on my Kindle (6th generation paperwhite). The software is current on it.

Apparently, Amazon is now putting out books that can't be read anything other than the newest Kindles in the hopes that we'll replace them. They're getting to be as evil as Microsoft.

Yeah, I don't "do" e-books. Not that I predicted Amazon would do that but I just want a book in book form. Old fashioned, no doubt. I keep some and pass the others along to other readers that I know.

The Cirillo books are keepers. Plus, they don't take up too much room and I am hoping that my son will get them one day and read them.

[Guerrero]

As a general question, does the book address the situation/conditions which caused the NYPD to create the Stakeout Squad?

[blues]

As a general question, does the book address the situation/conditions which caused the NYPD to create the Stakeout Squad?

It discusses it, but not at great length. More in general terms. Was there something specific you were seeking?

[Guerrero]

It discusses it, but not at great length. More in general terms. Was there something specific you were seeking?

Just the social situation that created the team. The blog post of Mas's that I linked to above mentioned it a bit (rise in crime, budget cuts in the NYPD, police firearms instructors that "weren't doing anything else"). I always like seeing the "bigger picture."

For example, both the books "Blackhawk Down" and "13 Hours" did good jobs of establishing the bigger pictures around those two events.

[Rex G]

As a general question, does the book address the situation/conditions which caused the NYPD to create the Stakeout Squad?

Mas Ayoob has written about this subject, as long ago as the Eighties, if not the Seventies.\. Hopefully he will see the Mas signal, and respond. IIRC, the armed robbers were killing too many folks, causing enough of an outcry that the city leaders felt compelled to do something.

Edited to add: I typed the above, before seeing Guerrero’s post.

[blues]

Just the social situation that created the team. The blog post of Mas's that I linked to above mentioned it a bit (rise in crime, budget cuts in the NYPD, police firearms instructors that "weren't doing anything else"). I always like seeing the "bigger picture."

For example, both the books "Blackhawk Down" and "13 Hours" did good jobs of establishing the bigger pictures around those two events.

This book is nothing like that. It's a more colloquial discussion of reminiscences and events...is focused on the perspective of Cirillo, Allard and a small group of other officers who participated in the squad and ESU.

It'll give perspective, but not great depth in that regard. Still, it touches on many of the events of the day...as I remember them growing up back then. When the squad was formed I was about 15 or 16, and my uncle was an anti-crime cop in Brooklyn. My wife and I each lived in a couple of the precincts mentioned in the book and I'm familiar with several locales.

[HCM]

This book is nothing like that. It's a more colloquial discussion of reminiscences and events...is focused on the perspective of Cirillo, Allard and a small group of other officers who participated in the squad and ESU.

It'll give perspective, but not great depth in that regard. Still, it touches on many of the events of the day...as I remember them growing up back then. When the squad was formed I was about 15 or 16, and my uncle was an anti-crime cop in Brooklyn. My wife and I each lived in a couple of the precincts mentioned in the book and I'm familiar with several locales.

In addition to the social factors already mentioned, Cash was more common and only banks had security cameras making armed robbery more lucrative and more likely to be successful.

While checks existed, there were no ATMs so people carried and used more cash than today.

[Inkwell 41]

(rise in crime, budget cuts in the NYPD, police firearms instructors that "weren't doing anything else")

Interesting that history is repeating itself. But I doubt that todays NYC uh, "leadership" will form anything even remotely resembling the SOU. I could see teams of social workers, hiding in plain sight, that spring into counseling sessions during an armed robbery, trying to help the perpetrator to get in touch with there inner child and lead them into blaming their absent father for the life they chose and all the people they hurt. Upon the successful conclusion of the session, the social worker will present them with a certificate of reformation and send them along their way, record fully expunged.

But I could be wrong....

[blues]

The stakeout squads as discussed in this book, as well as the book about the Dallas shotgun squad which Lee mentioned above, are interesting as a glimpse back to how things were done for a period of time.

What stands out for me, from reading and personal experience is:

Many of the officers were poorly trained and made many, (some serious), errors both tactically as well as planning-wise.

That it is very difficult, even with a partner, to maintain vigilance over the length of the shift. Shorter being better, but correspondingly less opportunity for a successful encounter with the "hi-jackers".

Boredom and sloppiness are real dangers to the officers and civilians in these situations.

Having the drop is no guarantee of success. And more importantly, no round, whether from a handgun, shotgun or rifle is necessarily going to stop a perp before he gets his licks in. Don't presume ballistic success if hits are made.



I can relate to the faux pas made and reported upon in the book by Cirillo and other officers.

One of them I was reminded of while reading the book occurred early in my career when I thought my badge made me somehow invincible, and was sitting in a utility closet under a stairwell in a private home awaiting a drug trafficker who was coming to pick up a load of cocaine we had seized earlier in the day from one of his confederates.

I had a couple of agents upstairs who were supposed to alert me to the perp's movement and actions upon arrival, but having no peephole or window, I was operating blind, and as Mr. Murphy would have it, they failed to provide me the information I needed.

When the bad guy arrived and eventually his steps led him to my location...I had my 870 trained on the door and was holding my breath awaiting an opportune moment to leave the cramped broom closet, jump out and effect the arrest.

Imagine both his and my surprise when he flung the door open and saw me with a shotgun leveled at him. Fortunately for both of us, he gave up without a struggle or shots being fired...but it is easy enough to imagine all the things which could have gone wrong that day. Most of them tactical errors made by myself and my partners in hastily setting up the sting.

I never made that mistake again, and learned firsthand, (at a discount price), the lesson that "tombstone courage" is a real thing to be avoided at all cost.

I think most of us LEOs can think of situations where "there, but for the grace of God, go I". Even us agnostics.

[csheehy]

Got mine this morning...very fast service from Mr. Kirchner!

[DC_P]

My wife and I closed our Amazon Prime account last year when we learned they donated something like $2M to the very anti police Black Lives Matter. We miss the convenience but we're not supporting a corporation that doesn't give a shit about Law Enforcement.

Dave

I didn't know this and will have to reconsider. Most annoying to me is they list things as 'Prime' but are not going to be there 2 days later. They apparently let 3rd party sellers list it as Prime if they give free shipping to Prime members. I have complained but nobody seems to care. That said, anything that is listed as prime is always easy to return for free, so that's good.

[blues]

I didn't know this and will have to reconsider. Most annoying to me is they list things as 'Prime' but are not going to be there 2 days later. They apparently let 3rd party sellers list it as Prime if they give free shipping to Prime members. I have complained but nobody seems to care. That said, anything that is listed as prime is always easy to return for free, so that's good.

Always check the column on the right side where it states "sold" and "shipped by".

Unless I know it's amazon or a vendor that I'm willing to use, I won't order...when purchasing items where I may be concerned about buying counterfeit or lesser goods.

[DC_P]

Always check the column on the right side where it states "sold" and "shipped by".

Unless I know it's amazon or a vendor that I'm willing to use, I won't order...when purchasing items where I may be concerned about buying counterfeit or lesser goods.

Yea, we have learned to check that. Same with Walmart or any other large online retailer these days. 3rd party sellers can be very hit or miss.

[11B10]

May also want to listen to Mas interviewing Bill Allard about his days with Jim Cirillo on the NYC Stakeout Unit.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTq_HnXk41Y



JohnO - thanks for providing the link to this interview. Bill Allard, along with his died-entirely-too-young partner, Jim Cirillo - were invaluable resources for us. Thank God there are written and recorded links to their modern day gunfighter lives - engaging killers time after time. Not only did they prevail, they were totally willing to share the invaluable knowledge they gained through those encounters.
The old adage is true: "There is no substitute for experience."

[blues]

Fast forward to 14.30 to see the portion with Cirillo:


https://youtu.be/ADmY2F_N2Qs

[lwt16]

.

I think most of us LEOs can think of situations where "there, but for the grace of God, go I".

Oh yeah....bunch of times.

Learned more from my mistakes than my successes. Always tried to not repeat them and sharpen up over the years. Been on the job since 96 and still sign up for classes on my own time to improve. It's the sort of job where you never stop learning and evolving into a better version of who you were yesterday.

[serialsolver]

As a general question, does the book address the situation/conditions which caused the NYPD to create the Stakeout Squad?

The book, Target Blue by Robert Daly is a good read about the nypd during the time of the stake out squad. It is heavy on the police administration side (politics) but a good look on inside. Also some in-depth information about some major investigations like the parent organization of blm, the black liberation army.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[jlw]

The stakeout squads as discussed in this book, as well as the book about the Dallas shotgun squad which Lee mentioned above, are interesting as a glimpse back to how things were done for a period of time.



I don't know how widely spread such squads were, but I know they existed outside of NY and Dallas. I've heard tale of one in Atlanta or DeKalb County; the details escape me.

Macon, GA, had a mayor named "Machine Gun Ronnie" Thompson who was known for his exploits. I have not been able to find documentation, but he supposedly put out the word that any Macon PD officer who killed an armed robber would get a trip to Jamaica on the city's dime. Such a statement is very consistent with other documented actions.

I suspect that word of what was happening in NY and Dallas spread through the copvine, but those other cities just never got books written about them.

I just may have deployed such units when we had a crew hitting convenience stores and restaurants.

[blues]

jlw

I'll be happy to read the chronicle when the time is right. It reads like sound police work to me.

And I agree, there's lots of stuff that doesn't make the news headlines...or even get much fanfare outside of the unit conducting the op. (And thankfully so, imho.)

Same can be said for setting up stings and ops on narcotics cases...bringing in successively larger fish after an initial seizure and arrest...or what I liked to refer to as "Dialing For Dopers".

[DC_P]

Macon, GA, had a mayor named "Machine Gun Ronnie" Thompson who was known for his exploits. I have not been able to find documentation, but he supposedly put out the word that any Macon PD officer who killed an armed robber would get a trip to Jamaica on the city's dime. .

Ahh, the good old days...

[jlw]

@jlw (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=136)

I'll be happy to read the chronicle when the time is right. It reads like sound police work to me.

And I agree, there's lots of stuff that doesn't make the news headlines...or even get much fanfare outside of the unit conducting the op. (And thankfully so, imho.)

Same can be said for setting up stings and ops on narcotics cases...bringing in successively larger fish after an initial seizure and arrest...or what I liked to refer to as "Dialing For Dopers".

The neighboring counties were had a take over robbery crew hitting convenience stores and restaurants. I deployed personnel in unmarked cars and them "staking out" possible targets in our county. I announced that we were doing so with the provision that we would continue until the perpetrators were caught "or otherwise dealt with". They stayed out of our county.

I rolled with a shorty 870 loaded with FFC and a shorty 590 loaded with Brenecke slugs. The shotties were turned opposite of each other in the two-gun rack in my truck so that I could tell them apart by feel in the dark.

[blues]

The neighboring counties were had a take over robbery crew hitting convenience stores and restaurants. I deployed personnel in unmarked cars and them "staking out" possible targets in our county. I announced that we were doing so with the provision that we would continue until the perpetrators were caught "or otherwise dealt with". They stayed out of our county.

I rolled with a shorty 870 loaded with FFC and a shorty 590 loaded with Brenecke slugs. The shotties were turned opposite of each other in the two-gun rack in my truck so that I could tell them apart by feel in the dark.

Ironic.

You succeeded by keeping the bad guys away (or otherwise dealt with).

We succeeded by luring them into the trap (and jumping them from our "staked out" / secreted positions...whether adjoining rooms, vehicles, UC sites etc).

There are many ways to skin a cat. It's always heartening when the good guys get a win for the team. I think I'd have enjoyed working cases with you and your officers.

[42Willys]

blues having taken gunfighting classes taught by ljw I can pretty much guarantee working with him would be the bees knees.

[SWAT Lt.]

Back in the day (a bit before my time) businesses had hold up alarms that rang directly into the radio room and did not have to be relayed to the PD from the alarm company when the alarm was activated. This included some direct hold up alarms we installed in high risk businesses. Several bad guys were smoked due to the quick response times from officers based on this arrangement, including one I saw photos of early on in my career who caught a full load of 00 Buck at close range. I was told there were no longer direct reporting alarms due to politicians worried about the number of bad guys getting killed by police. I don't know if that was the case or if the number of hold up alarms increased to where it was not feasible to have them all report directly. I suspect it was mostly the latter.

My unit (Major Crimes) conducted a fair amount of robbery surveillance in the 7 years I was there but was only involved in one shooting. I do know that if a hold up guy got smoked by a business owner/employee or the police, and it was well reported in the news, armed robberies seemed to slow or actually cease for a bit.

[Coyotesfan97]

Back in the day (a bit before my time) businesses had hold up alarms that rang directly into the radio room and did not have to be relayed to the PD from the alarm company when the alarm was activated. This included some direct hold up alarms we installed in high risk businesses. Several bad guys were smoked due to the quick response times from officers based on this arrangement, including one I saw photos of early on in my career who caught a full load of 00 Buck at close range. I was told there were no longer direct reporting alarms due to politicians worried about the number of bad guys getting killed by police. I don't know if that was the case or if the number of hold up alarms increased to where it was not feasible to have them all report directly. I suspect it was mostly the latter.

My unit (Major Crimes) conducted a fair amount of robbery surveillance in the 7 years I was there but was only involved in one shooting. I do know that if a hold up guy got smoked by a business owner/employee or the police, and it was well reported in the news, armed robberies seemed to slow or actually cease for a bit.

We had those for awhile when I was new. I was meeting with my Sergeant when one kicked out. I didn’t know what it was. My boss said follow me and scorched out of the lot. He explained it to me afterwards. I was like fuck yeah!

[blues]

We had those for awhile when I was new. I was meeting with my Sergeant when one kicked out. I didn’t know what it was. My boss said follow me and scorched out of the lot. He explained it to me afterwards. I was like fuck yeah!

I just laughed when I read that. That feeling when you're new is priceless.

I know I've told this before, but when I was a newly minted agent, my very first raid was led by a former NYPD detective who now worked for my outfit...which was conducted in lower Manhattan at a Chinese gang run brothel.

I got to climb a fire escape, jump from one roof to another, climb down another fire escape, go in through a window and knock down a door. On the way out the madam smacked me on the ass and said "you come back".

I was ruined...I thought every day would be like that.

(Told another newb that started the same day as me, we had each been recruited following undercover assignments, "I'd do this fuckin' job for free!". I shortly thereafter learned the error of my ways. :p)

[Coyotesfan97]

(Told another newb that started the same day as me, we had each been recruited following undercover assignments, "I'd do this fuckin' job for free!". I shortly thereafter learned the error of my ways. :p)

I was somewhere between5-10 on when I stopped saying that. :)

[Mas]

Mas Ayoob has written about this subject, as long ago as the Eighties, if not the Seventies.\. Hopefully he will see the Mas signal, and respond. IIRC, the armed robbers were killing too many folks, causing enough of an outcry that the city leaders felt compelled to do something.

Edited to add: I typed the above, before seeing Guerrero’s post.

When I was down there in NYC in the early '70s researching the SOU, I was told that a particular spate of violent robbery-homicides had triggered public outrage and complaints from business people, and the result was the formation of the Stakeout Unit. I never did get the details, though.

[dogcaller]

The GB link is no longer working. Is there a way to order this directly?

[Guerrero]

The GB link is no longer working. Is there a way to order this directly?

Try this

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/918719612

[DDTSGM]

I meet Cirillo at FLETC in the early 80's when I was attending a pilot program for officer survival instructors. We had a couple days on the range and Cirillo struck me as a friendly guy who was did not particularly like the FLETC bureaucracy which was keeping firearms training from advancing as he thought it should. I enjoyed talking with him.

[dogcaller]

Try this

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/918719612

Thanks!

[Stephanie B]

The GB link is no longer working. Is there a way to order this directly?

The best way, imo, is to contact the seller and just send a check, directly.

[Guerrero]

The best way, imo, is to contact the seller and just send a check, directly.

How? Through Gunbroker, or is there another way?

[Stephanie B]

How? Through Gunbroker, or is there another way?

Gunbroker allows you to contact the seller. Do that and ask if you can send a check. He gets them out as quickly as he can.

[blues]

How? Through Gunbroker, or is there another way?

Guerrero


Standby for a PM. I think I still have his email for you to reach out directly.


ETA: Sent

[jd950]

I was somewhere between5-10 on when I stopped saying that. :)

That transition from "I can't believe they pay me to do this stuff" to "I can't believe how little they pay me to do this crap" can be a painful process. I think it was at about 5 years for me. But now, at my advanced age, I have worked my way to where I am enjoying what I do. Mostly.

[coldcase1984]

Great thread.

I remember Mas earliest articles about the Stakeout Unit, and told about the unit even earlier by my retired grand uncle (Newark Police from '36-'66).

I was explaining this to my wife and found this gem on YouTube as a result.

https://youtu.be/Tempcmb5hZU

[Lost River]

I have not had a chance to read the thread yet but thought some of you may appreciate this.

https://i.imgur.com/CVWpid1.jpg?1

The gun I am holding in my grubby hands (we were doing a revolver shoot) belongs to our friend Ken Hackathorn.

It used to be Jim Cirillo's. Ken managed to talk him out of it years ago.


An extremely cool piece of history for sure. :cool:

[Polecat]

JLW, Dave from Atlanta brother, I met one of our local Stakeout guys who was retired from APD. He was a super nice guy. Won’t mention his name online, but he worked at a local gunshop I used to frequent. While looking over the wares that day, I overhead a middle aged woman asking about a proper gun for self defense. He stated “of all the gunfights I have been in the Model 10 had never failed!

When she left I chatted him up and he opened up about his career that seemed on par with those of Cirrilo’s and Allard’s experience. It was about the same time somewhere in the 70’s. Long story short, he was the winner in 17 gunfights. He had similar things to say about shot placement, marksmanship, gun selection, etc. It was a great conversation, more about the history, that time and the men that were protecting us!

Dave

[RevolverRob]

Tales of the Stakeout Squad is a great book.

Holloway's Raiders - https://www.amazon.com/Holloways-Raiders-History-Departments-Shotgun/dp/1495810275/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1LSUAWFCB9Z4H&keywords=Holloway%27s+Raiders&qid=1640285782&sprefix=holloway%27s+raider%2Caps%2C326&sr=8-1 - Is also awesome in discussing the Shotgun Stakeout Squads of Dallas PD, which pre-date the NYC ones by nearly 2-decades.

DPD shot a lot of bad guys during that time...

Holloway was famous for his little sayings (I'm paraphrasing): "The last thing a bad guy should hear is the snick of the safety coming off an 870."

[FrankB]

I have not had a chance to read the thread yet but thought some of you may appreciate this.

https://i.imgur.com/CVWpid1.jpg?1

The gun I am holding in my grubby hands (we were doing a revolver shoot) belongs to our friend Ken Hackathorn.

It used to be Jim Cirillo's. Ken managed to talk him out of it years ago.


An extremely cool piece of history for sure. :cool:

Which model is it?

[RevolverRob]

Which model is it?

It's gonna be a Model 10.

NYPD didn't authorize .357 Magnum for carry. Cirillo talks about it in his book, but basically the deal was:

2-4" .38 Special Colt or Smith and Wesson, fixed sight, revolvers, barrel length depended on your assignment (uniformed patrol was a 4" gun, plain clothes could carry 2 or 3" guns). The Model 10 and Colt Police Positive where the two main choices.

Backup guns were 'free' and typically officers on Stakeout Squads or SOU would carry at least two handguns, sometimes three or four, their 'standard' 4" fixed sight gun and then 'backups'. Cirillo usually carried a 4" heavy barrel M10 and a K38 Combat Masterpiece as his 'backup' (by his own admission). Bill Allard, whom he was frequently partnered with, carried a 4" M10 and a customized 1911 as a backup.

In Cirillo's book - https://www.amazon.com/Guns-Bullets-Gunfights-Modern-Day-Gunfighter/dp/1976745160/ref=pd_bxgy_img_1/135-6284706-7186663?pd_rd_w=vT5m4&pf_rd_p=c64372fa-c41c-422e-990d-9e034f73989b&pf_rd_r=85P4J4XB7HWVXZD52D4G&pd_rd_r=479add44-a7d9-4bb4-8aec-2b0ee346dbf4&pd_rd_wg=61f5a&pd_rd_i=1976745160&psc=1 - He mentions post-Stakeout Squad carrying 2-3" guns as part of plainclothes assignments. I would bet this is one of those guns.

[Lost River]

Which model is it?

It was as I recall a Model 10.

A 3" M10 HB definitely has a certain balance to it that is pretty hard to beat.

[HCM]

Great thread.

I remember Mas earliest articles about the Stakeout Unit, and told about the unit even earlier by my retired grand uncle (Newark Police from '36-'66).

I was explaining this to my wife and found this gem on YouTube as a result.

https://youtu.be/Tempcmb5hZU

Check this one out: Televised debate on the Morton Downey Jr. show in the 80's including participation by Jim Cirillo.


https://youtu.be/xDXdLAfsHCQ

[DDTSGM]

Someone posted a revolver that Cirillo once owned. I had an interesting conversation with him while at FLETC regarding the revolver used in his first shooting:

Cirillo told me that a gun writer had asked about what had happened to the revolver with which he shot his first robber. Cirillo told me he told the guy that he didn't know, that he thought he had used the frame to build a PPC revolver. Cirillo told me the gun writer then exclaimed that he'd destroyed a piece of law enforcement history, he (Cirillo) seemed amused that someone thought that way.

I've cleaned the language he used up. LOL

Funny how people are different about things. I very rarely, like never, get rid of a firearm, I just get attached to them, I guess. Not like some folks I know who move firearms in and out of their safes like a revolving door.

[gato naranja]

Holloway's Raiders - https://www.amazon.com/Holloways-Raiders-History-Departments-Shotgun/dp/1495810275/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1LSUAWFCB9Z4H&keywords=Holloway%27s+Raiders&qid=1640285782&sprefix=holloway%27s+raider%2Caps%2C326&sr=8-1 - Is also awesome in discussing the Shotgun Stakeout Squads of Dallas PD, which pre-date the NYC ones by nearly 2-decades.

DPD shot a lot of bad guys during that time...

Holloway was famous for his little sayings (I'm paraphrasing): "The last thing a bad guy should hear is the snick of the safety coming off an 870."

I had no idea this was anything but apocryphal. Live and learn.

[Stephanie B]

Tales of the Stakeout Squad is a great book.

Holloway's Raiders - https://www.amazon.com/Holloways-Raiders-History-Departments-Shotgun/dp/1495810275/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1LSUAWFCB9Z4H&keywords=Holloway%27s+Raiders&qid=1640285782&sprefix=holloway%27s+raider%2Caps%2C326&sr=8-1 - Is also awesome in discussing the Shotgun Stakeout Squads of Dallas PD, which pre-date the NYC ones by nearly 2-decades.

The book on Holloway's Raiders needed a good editor.

[Mas]

Someone posted a revolver that Cirillo once owned. I had an interesting conversation with him while at FLETC regarding the revolver used in his first shooting:

Cirillo told me that a gun writer had asked about what had happened to the revolver with which he shot his first robber. Cirillo told me he told the guy that he didn't know, that he thought he had used the frame to build a PPC revolver. Cirillo told me the gun writer then exclaimed that he'd destroyed a piece of law enforcement history, he (Cirillo) seemed amused that someone thought that way.

I've cleaned the language he used up. LOL

Funny how people are different about things. I very rarely, like never, get rid of a firearm, I just get attached to them, I guess. Not like some folks I know who move firearms in and out of their safes like a revolving door.

That Cirillo conversation sounds awfully familiar...

[03RN]

It was as I recall a Model 10.

A 3" M10 HB definitely has a certain balance to it that is pretty hard to beat.

You got that right

[Cecil Burch]

That Cirillo conversation sounds awfully familiar...

;);)

[WobblyPossum]

Check this one out: Televised debate on the Morton Downey Jr. show in the 80's including participation by Jim Cirillo.


https://youtu.be/xDXdLAfsHCQ

The thing that struck me the most was the general conservative tone of the host and audience. I can’t imagine a show like that airing on a traditional television network now.

[Ed L]

The thing that nostruck me the most was the general conservative tone of the host and audience. I can’t imagine a show like that airing on a traditional television network now.

You are not familiar with the late Morton Downey Jr. He had an over the top conservative TV show that engaged the guests. I believe it started in 1987 in New York City and ran for a few years. You can find a good selection of his shows on YouTube. Over the top and entertaining as all hell

Here is a good quick highlight video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY7PhhjQu30

[JCN]

For anyone that wondered, I found the book is available by the author Paul Kirchner for $29 shipped.

His email is:
pkirchner_45@yahoo.com

Reach out and get yours. Mine is on the way.

UNK

[JCN]

97994

[Stephanie B]

For anyone that wondered, I found the book is available by the author Paul Kirchner for $29 shipped.

His email is:
pkirchner_45@yahoo.com

Reach out and get yours. Mine is on the way.

UNK

I bought one a few months ago. It was well worth the money.

(What he could have done with a modern gun, ammo and carry optics!)

[45dotACP]

I bought one a few months ago. It was well worth the money.

(What he could have done with a modern gun, ammo and carry optics!)Got one a while back as well. A truly excellent book.

Man part of my big takeaway reading stuff about Cirillo is "yeah I probably ought to just do more dry fire and not buy another gun/barrel/whizbang thingiemajig"

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[UncleGabby]

For a while the original Paladin Press copies were selling on Ebay for $200-$300 each. I’m glad Mr. Kirchner has re-released this book, but also I’m kicking myself for not cashing out when the market was up.

[entropy]

Great Christmas gift idea for the like minded. Done!

Thanks!

[mmc45414]

It was as I recall a Model 10.
It is my understanding that Ken has (had? he has sold some stuff...) a bunch Model 10s, would make sense to have a noteworthy one like that. :cool:

[DanTheWolfman]

Always been interested. So one can still get direct from Paul K?

[SAWBONES]

For anyone that wondered, I found the book is available by the author Paul Kirchner for $29 shipped.

His email is:
pkirchner_45@yahoo.com

Reach out and get yours. Mine is on the way.

UNK

Thanks for that. Ordered one.

[entropy]

Always been interested. So one can still get direct from Paul K?


I just ordered several for gifts. Fast response and shipping.

[DanTheWolfman]

I just ordered several for gifts. Fast response and shipping.

thanks already got an email back from Paul going to order now!

[DanTheWolfman]

Ordered last night and Paul already emailed me fyi.

[awp_101]

With everyone from P-F that’s been ordering them, has anyone invited Mr Kirchner to join yet?🤣

[BaiHu]

Ordered one for me and one for my dad. He was very prompt and appreciative.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

[msstate56]

I recently ordered one and found it on Gunsite’s pro shop web store. $19.99. I’d have bought from the man himself if I had seen this first.

[JCN]

Got my copy today, the personalized signature is a nice touch. I didn’t think I would care but it’s really a nice touch.

[DanTheWolfman]

It is, and I am half way through it already, and can't put it down.

[DanTheWolfman]

And Done....it's awesome & at times funny!

[spyderco monkey]

It's gonna be a Model 10.

NYPD didn't authorize .357 Magnum for carry. Cirillo talks about it in his book, but basically the deal was:

2-4" .38 Special Colt or Smith and Wesson, fixed sight, revolvers, barrel length depended on your assignment (uniformed patrol was a 4" gun, plain clothes could carry 2 or 3" guns). The Model 10 and Colt Police Positive where the two main choices.

Backup guns were 'free' and typically officers on Stakeout Squads or SOU would carry at least two handguns, sometimes three or four, their 'standard' 4" fixed sight gun and then 'backups'. Cirillo usually carried a 4" heavy barrel M10 and a K38 Combat Masterpiece as his 'backup' (by his own admission). Bill Allard, whom he was frequently partnered with, carried a 4" M10 and a customized 1911 as a backup.

In Cirillo's book - https://www.amazon.com/Guns-Bullets-Gunfights-Modern-Day-Gunfighter/dp/1976745160/ref=pd_bxgy_img_1/135-6284706-7186663?pd_rd_w=vT5m4&pf_rd_p=c64372fa-c41c-422e-990d-9e034f73989b&pf_rd_r=85P4J4XB7HWVXZD52D4G&pd_rd_r=479add44-a7d9-4bb4-8aec-2b0ee346dbf4&pd_rd_wg=61f5a&pd_rd_i=1976745160&psc=1 - He mentions post-Stakeout Squad carrying 2-3" guns as part of plainclothes assignments. I would bet this is one of those guns.


It's been about 10 years since I read 'tales' from its first printing. But I seem to recall Jim using a number of custom handloaded .38 ammo on the stakekout squad. Either +p/+p+ backwards loaded hollow base wadcutters, or actual HP/JHP projectiles loaded hot. One time resulting in 'grape like' holes in the badguy.

I also recall that he found the single most one shot stop / 'lighting bolt' weapon for him was not shotguns or .223, but a .30 Carbine loaded with JHP. Which I thought was pretty surprising.

[spyderco monkey]

While we're on Kirchner books, his two best are his 'Deadliest Men' series, which is an amazing assortment of badasses across history, filled with colorful and amazing anecdotes of their exploits. Good guys and Bad Guys covered equally. Each book covers ~30-50 people

https://www.amazon.com/Deadliest-Men-Worlds-Combatants-Throughout/dp/1581602715

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/W/WEBP_402378-T1/images/I/512C22vt2AL._SX310_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/W/WEBP_402378-T1/images/I/51xFEy6UNhL.jpg

https://www.amazon.com/More-Deadliest-Men-Ever-Lived/dp/1581606907

His sequel I think is even better

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/W/WEBP_402378-T1/images/I/51dm+Mi-5sL._SX318_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

[JCN]

98593