View Full Version : Changes at Safariland
BehindBlueI's
09-02-2021, 08:04 AM
(I asked an off topic question of KevH in another thread, and thought the result was worth it's own thread.)
What changed at Safariland?
What changed at Safariland?
They moved production to Mexico and quality has plummeted.
A new 6000-series holster feels like some sort of cheap knockoff of their past great product. This applies to magpouches, cuff cases, and everything else.
My understanding is the employees they abandoned in California teamed up to make US Duty Gear and keep making the great old Safariland products. From talking to them last week I would expect to see at least one really really large department issuing their stuff in the near future. I know they're going to have an ALS line out shortly. I also know they're open to creating a new mold for something (gun, light, optic combo) if they get 100 orders of that product.
It's actually fairly exciting and may give Safariland actual real competition in the marketplace finally.
TheNewbie
09-02-2021, 10:30 AM
They moved production to Mexico and quality has plummeted.
A new 6000-series holster feels like some sort of cheap knockoff of their past great product. This applies to magpouches, cuff cases, and everything else.
My understanding is the employees they abandoned in California teamed up to make US Duty Gear and keep making the great old Safariland products. From talking to them last week I would expect to see at least one really really large department issuing their stuff in the near future. I know they're going to have an ALS line out shortly. I also know they're open to creating a new mold for something (gun, light, optic combo) if they get 100 orders of that product.
It's actually fairly exciting and may give Safariland actual real competition in the marketplace finally.
Any idea when their ALS line will be out? I also like the look of some of their leather stuff.
What kind of holster do you use for non uniform carry? Can you find one of those for the Stacatto?
Any idea when their ALS line will be out? I also like the look of some of their leather stuff.
What kind of holster do you use for non uniform carry? Can you find one of those for the Stacatto?
I've heard the ALS stuff will probably be out a few months into 2022. As with any new company I think we have to be patient.
Non-uniform it depends. I have old FIN Designs (long out of business) kydex holsters I really like for Glocks which is what I've been using lately. His stuff was the best kydex in my opinion, but it's NLA.
Like most guys, and much to my wife's chagrin, I have bins and bins of holsters. I have Rusty Sherrick SIS holsters for a few different guns, some holsters from Tim Thurner and bunch of Milt Sparks stuff all of which I use. My favorite Milt Sparks belt holsters (and my favorite for the 1911 in general) are the 60TK and 1RT. All of them except the 1RT ride really high which I like.
I'll probably beg Rusty to make me one for the Staccato and buy a Milt Sparks one and ultimately carry long-term whichever one works best. I don't think a 60TK can accommodate an optic.
UNM1136
09-02-2021, 10:48 AM
They moved production to Mexico and quality has plummeted.
A new 6000-series holster feels like some sort of cheap knockoff of their past great product. This applies to magpouches, cuff cases, and everything else.
My understanding is the employees they abandoned in California teamed up to make US Duty Gear and keep making the great old Safariland products. From talking to them last week I would expect to see at least one really really large department issuing their stuff in the near future. I know they're going to have an ALS line out shortly. I also know they're open to creating a new mold for something (gun, light, optic combo) if they get 100 orders of that product.
It's actually fairly exciting and may give Safariland actual real competition in the marketplace finally.
The Mexican producion referenences trouble me, there is concern, and decisions to be made...
I just had to buy a new body armor carrier, manufactured by Safariland, in Mexico. Only a month old, but watching. Not made in USA, which is where I would likely need it. Not really sure how I feel, or what benchmarks I need. I spent more than a couple of years on the southern border, though. One of my mentors got AR-10s (at least his, as Head of the Firearms Training Unit) as approved for duty use for "cartel intrusions"...I normally have a "Made in USA requirement" for life saving stuff. Like guns. And ammo. And armor. And med supplies...
Safariland's issues are not really its own. It is part of a multinational corporation, and the biggest issue is the bottom line. They will support what sells, not what saves...
pat
The Mexican producion referenences trouble me, there is concern, and decisions to be made...
I just had to buy a new body armor carrier, manufactured by Safariland, in Mexico. Only a month old, but watching. Not made in USA, which is where I would likely need it. Not really sure how I feel, or what benchmarks I need. I spent more than a couple of years on the southern border, though. One of my mentors got AR-10s (at least his, as Head of the Firearms Training Unit) as approved for duty use for "cartel intrusions"...I normally have a "Made in USA requirement" for life saving stuff. Like guns. And ammo. And armor. And med supplies...
Safariland's issues are not really its own. It is part of a multinational corporation, and the biggest issue is the bottom line. They will support what sells, not what saves...
pat
Not trying to drift my own thread, but we had a debacle with Second Chance after Safariland bought them a few years back. Safariland recently sent us a vest to demo a few months back and I returned it shortly after taking it out of the box. It was so stiff and the quality appeared very low. It felt like cardboard.
We switched to US Armor in 2015 and couldn't be happier. Great company, great product and made in the USA.
UNM1136
09-02-2021, 11:00 AM
Not trying to drift my own thread, but we had a debacle with Second Chance after Safariland bought them a few years back. Safariland recently sent us a vest to demo a few months back and I returned it shortly after taking it out of the box. It was so stiff and the quality appeared very low. It felt like cardboard.
We switched to US Armor in 2015 and couldn't be happier. Great company, great product and made in the USA.
You seem to have identified one of my problems. I don't mind stiff vests, in kevlar (my first was a 1986 Point Blank vest...) but the way they deform, like cardboard, and hold the deformation, resulting in crappy fits thereafter is pretty disturbing. Depite the girth I gained during my career thus far, I am convinced the fit of my vest was adversely affected by the way gravity affected it while being stored vertically in my locker...
pat
BehindBlueI's
09-02-2021, 11:09 AM
They moved production to Mexico and quality has plummeted.
A new 6000-series holster feels like some sort of cheap knockoff of their past great product. This applies to magpouches, cuff cases, and everything else.
My understanding is the employees they abandoned in California teamed up to make US Duty Gear and keep making the great old Safariland products. From talking to them last week I would expect to see at least one really really large department issuing their stuff in the near future. I know they're going to have an ALS line out shortly. I also know they're open to creating a new mold for something (gun, light, optic combo) if they get 100 orders of that product.
It's actually fairly exciting and may give Safariland actual real competition in the marketplace finally.
That's interesting and I had no idea. I'll split this out into it's own topic.
Trooper224
09-02-2021, 11:25 AM
A while back we got some new Safariland gear at work and I noted a decline in quality from years past. Having zero choice in gear for this job, I didn't give it any further thought. Now the reason is obvious, sad.
I'd agree with KehH on the lowered overall quality. Especially with the recent light compatible 7360 holsters we received. Universally hated here. Fit was terrible on both the draw and reholstering. When guys who've been using nothing but ALS/SLS combo holsters for years want to throw the holster in the lake out of frustration, you've got a problem.
We were just sent an "updated" version of this holster that's intended to deal with the fit issue, as well as the excessive flex in the holster body. First impressions are that it is an improvement, but that it still has issue. Still probably the best trigger area coverage of any light compatible holster....but that comes at a cost.
Looking forward to seeing the level 3 US Duty Gear offering. Their quality seems good....we just want something with a little more active retention than an SLS style bucket.
And don't get me started on Safarilands refusal to consider making a DG switch compatible holster....
I noted in my Acro P-2 thread that I sent a recent production 6360RDS to Chris Geist of Ghostmen Design to be refitted for VP9.
I can't rave enough about whatever it is that he did to make it fit. The holster I got back from him fit the VP9 with light and optic better than it had fit the P320 it was meant for from the factory. Buttery smooth, protected trigger guard, perfect engagement of the ALS mechanism. You cannot tell that it was ever modified by outward appearance.
If you are stuck by department policy using a Safariland holsters having him go through it may be an option.
AMC The 7000-series stuff doesn't impress me at all. I have a 7360RDS for a G19 with TLR7. It seems cheap and flimsy. My guess is that is the direction they are moving towards in general though.
In case anyone is interested, this is what we're using and paying for US Armor's vests. Super light, super flexible and very comfy. When we went with the "new" Second Chance stuff in 2011 there was a lot of bitching and guys went out and bought their own stuff or continued wearing expired vests. Since switching to US Armor we've had zero of that. Their carriers are super high quality as are the panels. I'm not aware of anyone wearing them out.
Requirements:
- Level 2 or Level 3A
- NIJ 06
- Color Black
- Extra Carrier also in Black
- Upgraded lining
- Up to 1 inch of overlap included
Models: 2021
5226F w/Extra carrier + Out/Cop in both $1,135.00
6216 w/Extra carrier + Out/Cop in both $1,230.00
6226F w/Extra carrier + Out/Cop in both NA
6316M w/Extra carrier + Out/Cop in both $1,310.00
6326F w/Extra carrier + Out/Cop in both $1,310.00
Additional overlap per inch (over the 1") $40.00
NOTE 1: Soft Trauma Plate always included
NOTE 2: 10% - 25% factory surcharges for sizes 49" & up!
Wayne Dobbs
09-02-2021, 03:34 PM
PM out to you BBI
They moved production to Mexico and quality has plummeted.
Do you know if this is just the holsters or if it's their entire product line?
Brownells, for instance, still identifies their comp speedloaders as made in the US.
Do you know if this is just the holsters or if it's their entire product line?
Brownells, for instance, still identifies their comp speedloaders as made in the US.
I'm not sure, but all belts, keepers, cases, and holsters we have received from them in the past year have been the Made in Mexico and are noticeably different in quality. It becomes super evident when you compare it to something made a few years back.
This is interesting. We’re just getting ready to issue new Safariland holsters when we issue our new duty guns in 2 weeks. I’ll report back if we have issues. I sent a request to US Duty Gear to see if we could get a T&E holster.
I'm not sure, but all belts, keepers, cases, and holsters we have received from them in the past year have been the Made in Mexico and are noticeably different in quality. It becomes super evident when you compare it to something made a few years back.
I just got a CD2 steel speed loader holder in today; the label says it’s made in Mexico
I just got a CD2 steel speed loader holder in today; the label says it’s made in Mexico
Interesting. Brownells also lists the CD2 as made in the US so they haven't gotten around to updating the country of manufacture yet.
Interesting. Brownells also lists the CD2 as made in the US so they haven't gotten around to updating the country of manufacture yet.
I just checked, Midway lists it as USA made also.
in the past year have been the Made in Mexico
Wow. That it's been that long and major outlets like Brownells and Midway are still incorrect about country of origin is a problem.
It's less a problem that it's made in Mexico than it is being falsely advertised as (still) made in the US.
HeavyDuty
09-02-2021, 05:42 PM
Wow. That it's been that long and major outlets like Brownells and Midway are still incorrect about country of origin is a problem.
It's less a problem that it's made in Mexico than it is being falsely advertised as (still) made in the US.
That’s a reseller issue - no one noticed the change.
Chuck Whitlock
09-02-2021, 06:08 PM
Wow. That it's been that long and major outlets like Brownells and Midway are still incorrect about country of origin is a problem.
It's less a problem that it's made in Mexico than it is being falsely advertised as (still) made in the US.
I imagine that Safariland hasn't been trumpeting it a whole lot.
Flamingo
09-02-2021, 06:13 PM
I sent Brownells a note:
I just wanted to contact you regarding Safariland shifting its manufacture to Mexico. Many of your Safariland items are listed as being manufactured in the USA.
Thanks,
Flamingo
Not sure they will respond or change the listing, but...
jnc36rcpd
09-02-2021, 07:37 PM
The Safariland news is disheartening, especially if the rot has spread to the various brands such as Second Chance. Any word on the current quality of Bianchi's nylon and leather goods?
jd950
09-02-2021, 07:38 PM
I would be tempted to order an ALS holster, even though I don't need one, just as a gesture of support. But, it does not appear they will be making holsters for the P229. I understand why, but I am clinging to the the thing as long as I can. From the looks it gets, you would think I was carrying a revolver again. If (or more likely when) I am forced to enter the striker-fired world, I will if possible use an M&P, which U.S. Duty gear does not seem to support either. It's like the whole world is trying to force me to carry a Glock.
They do support the P226, so I guess I could do that if necessary......
TheNewbie
09-02-2021, 08:23 PM
I noted in my Acro P-2 thread that I sent a recent production 6360RDS to Chris Geist of Ghostmen Design to be refitted for VP9.
I can't rave enough about whatever it is that he did to make it fit. The holster I got back from him fit the VP9 with light and optic better than it had fit the P320 it was meant for from the factory. Buttery smooth, protected trigger guard, perfect engagement of the ALS mechanism. You cannot tell that it was ever modified by outward appearance.
If you are stuck by department policy using a Safariland holsters having him go through it may be an option.
AMC The 7000-series stuff doesn't impress me at all. I have a 7360RDS for a G19 with TLR7. It seems cheap and flimsy. My guess is that is the direction they are moving towards in general though.
What kind of mods can he do to a holster?
SoCalDep
09-02-2021, 09:43 PM
I would be tempted to order an ALS holster, even though I don't need one, just as a gesture of support. But, it does not appear they will be making holsters for the P229. I understand why, but I am clinging to the the thing as long as I can. From the looks it gets, you would think I was carrying a revolver again. If (or more likely when) I am forced to enter the striker-fired world, I will if possible use an M&P, which U.S. Duty gear does not seem to support either. It's like the whole world is trying to force me to carry a Glock.
They do support the P226, so I guess I could do that if necessary......
US Duty gear makes M&P holsters… I have one along with many of my partners. Mine will accept the 2.0 with a Surefire X300/DG switch or TLR1. It’s an SLS-only design, but I expect additional options soon.
TheNewbie
09-02-2021, 09:49 PM
US Duty gear makes M&P holsters… I have one along with many of my partners. Mine will accept the 2.0 with a Surefire X300/DG switch or TLR1. It’s an SLS-only design, but I expect additional options soon.
Think one would work with a M&P TS version?
What kind of mods can he do to a holster?
About 10 years or so when a bunch of us decided to buy DG switches and stick them on our X200/X300's I spent a couple weeks with a heat gun heating up the backs of holsters and then gently inserting the pistol with the switch to make it fit perfectly.
Looking at the P320 6360 that Chris turned into a VP9 6360 I'm guessing he used heat and some type of press or vacuum to remold the holster to the gun (it literally fits perfectly). I can see where he altered the muzzle plug, but did a better job than I would have done with a Dremel. I know he must have altered the ALS mechanism somehow as well.
The end result is that it fits the gun absolutely perfectly and everything functions smoothly the way a 6360 would have ten years ago...and just think this is a holster NOT made at the factory for this gun.
I purchased a 6354DO (made in Mexico) during COVID last year and can't get the thing hasn't worked right since Day 1. It is an absolute bitch to get the gun out. I may send it to Chris at some point and ask him to sort it out if he's willing.
TheNewbie
09-02-2021, 10:31 PM
About 10 years or so when a bunch of us decided to buy DG switches and stick them on our X200/X300's I spent a couple weeks with a heat gun heating up the backs of holsters and then gently inserting the pistol with the switch to make it fit perfectly.
Looking at the P320 6360 that Chris turned into a VP9 6360 I'm guessing he used heat and some type of press or vacuum to remold the holster to the gun (it literally fits perfectly). I can see where he altered the muzzle plug, but did a better job than I would have done with a Dremel. I know he must have altered the ALS mechanism somehow as well.
The end result is that it fits the gun absolutely perfectly and everything functions smoothly the way a 6360 would have ten years ago...and just think this is a holster NOT made at the factory for this gun.
I purchased a 6354DO (made in Mexico) during COVID last year and can't get the thing hasn't worked right since Day 1. It is an absolute bitch to get the gun out. I may send it to Chris at some point and ask him to sort it out if he's willing.
I have used two different 6360s for my P-07s, and they were both rough out of the box. Now that they are broken in I am confident in them, but it was anything but confidence at first.
The 7360 seem nice in theory, but in actual use they feel cheap to me. I've read that they have been improved but I don't know. Next time I am in Mexico I'll stop by the factory and ask them to up the quality.
I look forward to US Duty Gears Level 3.
jnc36rcpd
09-03-2021, 12:51 AM
I would be tempted to order an ALS holster, even though I don't need one, just as a gesture of support. But, it does not appear they will be making holsters for the P229. I understand why, but I am clinging to the the thing as long as I can. From the looks it gets, you would think I was carrying a revolver again. If (or more likely when) I am forced to enter the striker-fired world, I will if possible use an M&P, which U.S. Duty gear does not seem to support either. It's like the whole world is trying to force me to carry a Glock.
They do support the P226, so I guess I could do that if necessary......
I carried a P226 on and off-duty for a quarter century supplemented by the P228, P229, and P239.I feel your pain, epecially since the FNS-9 fanboys helped force my medical retirement. I'd be tempted to go back to Classic SIG as a retirement gun, but if my current employer goes armed, it will almost certainly be to Glock or, less likely, another striker fired pistol.
I noted in my Acro P-2 thread that I sent a recent production 6360RDS to Chris Geist of Ghostmen Design to be refitted for VP9.
I can't rave enough about whatever it is that he did to make it fit. The holster I got back from him fit the VP9 with light and optic better than it had fit the P320 it was meant for from the factory. Buttery smooth, protected trigger guard, perfect engagement of the ALS mechanism. You cannot tell that it was ever modified by outward appearance.
If you are stuck by department policy using a Safariland holsters having him go through it may be an option.
AMC The 7000-series stuff doesn't impress me at all. I have a 7360RDS for a G19 with TLR7. It seems cheap and flimsy. My guess is that is the direction they are moving towards in general though.
Unfortunately, he only does holsters for pistols with WMLs.
RevolverJIM
09-03-2021, 08:00 AM
I still have some of the real Safariland gear from 1980s and although it has some battle scars it works as good as when it was new.
The "stuff" they sell now is junk and has been for several years!!
I hope US Duty Gear puts them out of business!
TheNewbie.....we just received some "improved" 7360 Weaponlight holsters last week. Two of the guys are trying them out. So far, the fit is somewhat improved, and the holster body is slightly reinforced in key areas....so it compresses less around the trigger guard when pressure is applied. I'll keep everyone posted on our opinions.
Interestingly, it was Safariland who reached out to us. Company Reps talk to other companies' reps...and several folks knew we thought our new holsters were hot garbage, and were looking at other manufacturers. Suddenly Tommy Campbell is calling my office and shipping me holsters. So they're aware of the problems at least.
Safariland reminds me of Colt. At one point they built a great 1911, but later the first thing you did was send it to a gunsmith to make it run the way you would like. Ghost men is to Safariland what the gunsmith was to Colt.
LtDave
09-03-2021, 06:18 PM
I guess I’m dating myself, but the only Safariland gear I have any interest in is made of leather. My ‘70s vintage cuff cases are still GTG.
Erick Gelhaus
09-03-2021, 08:59 PM
...And don't get me started on Safarilands refusal to consider making a DG switch compatible holster....
One of the truly sad things here is that for YEARS, their holsters were made to accommodate the SL & DG switches.
Chuck Whitlock
09-03-2021, 11:40 PM
One of the truly sad things here is that for YEARS, their holsters were made to accommodate the SL & DG switches.
I want to say that was prior to the ALS. I had (have?) a 6280 that will accommodate a DG switch.
Chuck Whitlock
09-03-2021, 11:47 PM
I guess I’m dating myself, but the only Safariland gear I have any interest in is made of leather. My ‘70s vintage cuff cases are still GTG.
Their Safari-Laminate with the genuine dead cow exterior was fantastic.
Chuck Whitlock
09-03-2021, 11:53 PM
This has been enlightening. I have been pleased with the 6360 and 6377/8 holsters for my Glocks, and later Sig 320/250's.
I was less than impressed with the 1911 versions I received fairly recently.... there was no adjustable friction retention, and absent the ALS mechanism, were SERPA-ish gun buckets.
I just checked and the 1911 ones were "assembled in Mexico". My 6360 for my Sig had the model info branded in, and has set-screw adjustable friction retention. The ALS belt holster for the Sig was "assembled in Mexico", and has a non-adjustable, rubber disc retention. This particular holster has been quite serviceable, but the 1911 ones have been problematic. I don't know how much of that is due to my personal physiology (needing a NUB to be able to work the ALS), but the friction retention is crap.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.