Staccato C2 as "do it all" pistol?

[KevH]

I had the chance to see a bunch of Staccatos in action this weekend at a class and to shoot a couple. I'm in an admin assignment at work right now so I wear a polo and 5.11 pants 80% of the time and only wear a uniform about 20% although that could change and I could go back to patrol tomorrow (at some point I'll be back in a uniformed patrol assignment again...and then probably another investigations assignment...I still have awhile left).

I had been thinking a "P" but after shooting a C2 I'm leaning that direction.

Pro's and Con's:

(+) It's a little smaller (easier to conceal).
(+) It seems quite a bit lighter.
(+) Safariland does not make a holster for it, but US Duty Gear does (screw new Safariland anyway).
(+) Comfortable full three finger grip and accepts any size 2011 mag
(--) More recoil and shoots less flat
(--) C2 for some reason only comes with 3 mags and the P comes with 6 for LE (I called them today and verified...boo!)
(--) Dawson Tooless guiderod is not available...just the Recoilmaster system

Am I missing anything? What says the PF hive mind?

Please don't say to buy both. I'm going to have to sell some stuff to fund it as it is.

[GJM]

Unless someone else is buying them, and especially the magazines for you, I would buy neither.

[Archer1440]

Unless someone else is buying them, and especially the magazines for you, I would buy neither.

I’ve shot one (P), not extensively, but enough to have a favorable impression. If it were, say, $1500.

But not for the $2500 asking price (plus whatever they want for a mounting plate, mags, etc).

[krav51]

I had the chance to see a bunch of Staccatos in action this weekend at a class and to shoot a couple. I'm in an admin assignment at work right now so I wear a polo and 5.11 pants 80% of the time and only wear a uniform about 20% although that could change and I could go back to patrol tomorrow (at some point I'll be back in a uniformed patrol assignment again...and then probably another investigations assignment...I still have awhile left).

I had been thinking a "P" but after shooting a C2 I'm leaning that direction.

Pro's and Con's:

(+) It's a little smaller (easier to conceal).
(+) It seems quite a bit lighter.
(+) Safariland does not make a holster for it, but US Duty Gear does (screw new Safariland anyway).
(+) Comfortable full three finger grip and accepts any size 2011 mag
(--) More recoil and shoots less flat
(--) C2 for some reason only comes with 3 mags and the P comes with 6 for LE (I called them today and verified...boo!)
(--) Dawson Tooless guiderod is not available...just the Recoilmaster system

Am I missing anything? What says the PF hive mind?

Please don't say to buy both. I'm going to have to sell some stuff to fund it as it is.


I looked at them as well but ended up with a Wilson edc x9 as my do all gun. Couldn't be happier, not one thing I would change about it. Other than the price.

[Trooper224]

The price of the gun, as well as the ongoing cost of magazines would put it outside the realm of a sustainable duty weapon, at least for me. I don't get the excitement about the platform. I've shot them and they're nice pistols. However, in it's guts it's just a double stack 1911. I've seen quite a few high profile folks who've been very vocal about the obsolescence of Gods Gun for quite some time, suddenly extolling the virtues of this pistol as if it's a real game changer. If it was half the price it is and the mag cost didn't induce a nose bleed, maybe. In the end, I think your money can be better spent elsewhere. That's a lot of cost just to sit at the cool kid table.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Use your VP9...

[Nephrology]

Not a cop but I would have a very hard time justifying that myself, on multiple levels, cost being the most salient. Seems analogous to using an F350 Platinum for patrol truck (which does sound kind of sweet to be honest...)

[Trooper224]

Not a cop but I would have a very hard time justifying that myself, on multiple levels, cost being the most salient. Seems analogous to using an F350 Platinum for patrol truck (which does sound kind of sweet to be honest...)

Patrolling in a Duesenberg and using a Navy Luger as a duty sidearm sounds sweet too, but........... :)

If I chose a John Wick special as a duty weapon, the first time someone stomped on one of my preciously priced mags at range qual, or the seatbelt gouged up the tacticool grip frame I might have a moment. That's why you really can't beat plastic fantastics like the Glock as duty weapons: Bic lighters and all that.

[KevH]

Guys, I carried a John Jardine custom Colt Government Model for years on duty. That gun on the open market would fetch a whole lot more than any STI/Staccato. The only reason I stopped was weight (primarily of the extra ammo), lack of a rail to mount a light to it and capacity when I was a K9 handler.

A gun is something I consider life-saving equipment. The LE price for a P or C2 is right at $2k. More than a Glock? Sure, but if I use the thing everyday for the next decade I'm not that concerned about it.

[ScotchMan]

Seems like a strong opportunity for Magpul to make some 2011 PMAGs...

[Rex G]

Had I managed to get out of uniformed duty, rather than retiring altogether, I’d have carried a big gun, simply because it would not have been competing for space, on the duty belt, with all the other duty gear. (At the time, I was qual’ed with two 5” Les Baer 1911 pistols, and G19 and G17 Glocks.) This is my conceptual answer.

With a personal bias against compact 1911 pistols, that I acquired through unsatisfactory experiences, and a lack of familiarity with any 2011-ish design, I am unable to answer more specifically than that. (To be clear, I am not saying that there is anything wrong with the C2.)

And, yes, indeed, I can relate to clumsy, heavy colleagues stepping on my mags and speed-loaders, at the qual range. One step-and-pivot destroyed a speed-loader.

[UNK]

I had the chance to see a bunch of Staccatos in action this weekend at a class and to shoot a couple. I'm in an admin assignment at work right now so I wear a polo and 5.11 pants 80% of the time and only wear a uniform about 20% although that could change and I could go back to patrol tomorrow (at some point I'll be back in a uniformed patrol assignment again...and then probably another investigations assignment...I still have awhile left).

I had been thinking a "P" but after shooting a C2 I'm leaning that direction.

Pro's and Con's:

(+) It's a little smaller (easier to conceal).
(+) It seems quite a bit lighter.
(+) Safariland does not make a holster for it, but US Duty Gear does (screw new Safariland anyway).
(+) Comfortable full three finger grip and accepts any size 2011 mag
(--) More recoil and shoots less flat
(--) C2 for some reason only comes with 3 mags and the P comes with 6 for LE (I called them today and verified...boo!)
(--) Dawson Tooless guiderod is not available...just the Recoilmaster system

Am I missing anything? What says the PF hive mind?

Please don't say to buy both. I'm going to have to sell some stuff to fund it as it is.

I dont have a dog in this fight but I think it was one of the members here who had one. Im thinking The Janitor maybe? Not sure. If you can find that thread I think it has some very good info. As I recall he was enthralled at first…but he ended up getting out of the platform for multiple reasons and if Im not mistaken reliability especially concerning the magazines was a huge concern. After reading his thread theres no way Id buy one except as a range toy.

[Clusterfrack]

I don't think the price is the main issue with Stacatto as a duty-grade gun. Why do we believe that the company formerly known as STI has finally made a 2011 as reliable as a Glock?

For example: Doesn't the gun still require tuned extractors? How do the magazines perform after the Teflon coating wears, or when dirty/sandy? Can you cause magazine-related malfunctions by an impact that subtly changes the lip geometry (which you cannot see)?

[HeavyDuty]

Seems like a strong opportunity for Magpul to make some 2011 PMAGs...

They’re too busy making T-shirts and man bun wraps.

[Clusterfrack]

Seems like a strong opportunity for Magpul to make some 2011 PMAGs...

Is it possible to make mass-produced, generic, inexpensive 2011 magazines that are reliable under heavy use, long-term? Magpul has done it with AR and AK PMags. They have sort-of achieved it with Glock PMags, but not quite.

[Caballoflaco]

Is it possible to make mass-produced, generic, inexpensive 2011 magazines that are reliable under heavy use, long-term? Magpul has done it with AR and AK PMags. They have sort-of achieved it with Glock PMags, but not quite.

Not out of polymer, ain’t gots enough room in there.

[theJanitor]

I dont have a dog in this fight but I think it was one of the members here who had one. Im thinking The Janitor maybe? Not sure. If you can find that thread I think it has some very good info. As I recall he was enthralled at first…but he ended up getting out of the platform for multiple reasons and if Im not mistaken reliability especially concerning the magazines was a huge concern. After reading his thread theres no way Id buy one except as a range toy.


Not me. Probably Duke. I almost bought one last week, just so I could know for myself what was up with Staccato. But alas, I passed.....again.

[AMC]

A whole bunch of our officers have bought P' and C2s in the last 2 years. A couple of our SWAT guys are heavily pushing to replace their 2 year old 226 Legion 9mms with Staccatos. Because CDI and OAF. 4 years ago it was Glocks...then CZ P10's were the only gun to have. Now Staccato. Strangely seemed to follow the preferences of a particular prominent trainer or two. I have no interest in spending over $100,000 to replace the newest, and only 9mm, handguns in our department inventory. These guys are organizing huge group buys convincing everybody it's what they should be able to carry on duty.

I will say that they are great guns to shoot. Stupid easy to shoot well. Having spoken to several Instructors from agencies authorizing the platform, including guys on this forum, they are adamant about having certain things in place before considering it. And they're pretty realistic about the reality of running these guns, in terms of reliability. There are still issues....especially with the magazines.

If you're an experienced 1911 operator, and comfortable with the system, I get the "life insurance" aspect of the cost question. The question is, are you really buying the reliability you think you are?

[Trooper224]

Guys, I carried a John Jardine custom Colt Government Model for years on duty. That gun on the open market would fetch a whole lot more than any STI/Staccato. The only reason I stopped was weight (primarily of the extra ammo), lack of a rail to mount a light to it and capacity when I was a K9 handler.

A gun is something I consider life-saving equipment. The LE price for a P or C2 is right at $2k. More than a Glock? Sure, but if I use the thing everyday for the next decade I'm not that concerned about it.

Well, you mentioned selling stuff to fund it so that gives the impression cost is a factor. If you're not worried about the cost are you prepared to buy two? If this is a personal purchase and not agency supplied you should. If #1 goes down for maintenance or winds up in evidence for a while you'll need a #2, because the department won't have a spare in the arms room.

If cost isn't a factor, the only concerns I'd have would be the magazines. Irrespective of cost there's the reliability factor. Every time I see someone claim the mags are now good to go, I see someone claiming otherwise. If that's been solved, I don't see why the gun wouldn't serve well as a multi-use platform.
I'm not down on the gun at all, I think they're pretty cool. I guess what gets under my skin is the somewhat hypocritical, flavor of the moment fanboyism that surrounds the thing, but you didn't ask about that.

[Rick R]

The gents over at the Lightfighter Forum did a group buy that generated pages of interaction concerning the platform.

The price of having it end up in evidence would keep me carrying something Glock-ish for real world use.

[paherne]

Guys, I carried a John Jardine custom Colt Government Model for years on duty. That gun on the open market would fetch a whole lot more than any STI/Staccato. The only reason I stopped was weight (primarily of the extra ammo), lack of a rail to mount a light to it and capacity when I was a K9 handler.

A gun is something I consider life-saving equipment. The LE price for a P or C2 is right at $2k. More than a Glock? Sure, but if I use the thing everyday for the next decade I'm not that concerned about it.

Get one and have Jardine do a duty tune on it. He did it on my 2019 Staccato P. There's a group buy going on now. Folks who haven't shot a Jardine gun just don't know. Go work one of those fire deployments on OT and the gun, the mags, the holster and custom work are covered. The shorter mags are very reliable and now there are aluminum baseplates available.

[AMC]

Get one and have Jardine do a duty tune on it. He did it on my 2019 Staccato P. There's a group buy going on now. Folks who haven't shot a Jardine gun just don't know. Go work one of those fire deployments on OT and the gun, the mags, the holster and custom work are covered. The shorter mags are very reliable and now there are aluminum baseplates available.

If money is not an object, this is not a bad a idea. And I agree about John. He might look like an even crankier Wilfred Brimley, but he's DaVinci on a 1911 pattern gun.

[KevH]

If money is not an object, this is not a bad a idea. And I agree about John. He might look like an even crankier Wilfred Brimley, but he's DaVinci on a 1911 pattern gun.

I've seen John do things with 1911's and Glocks I didn't think were even possible (Fowler Ind resells his Glock stuff).

I'm going to buy a Staccato and have John work his magic. It's just a matter of which one to buy (P or C2)

[theJanitor]

I've seen John do things with 1911's and Glocks I didn't think were even possible (Fowler Ind resells his Glock stuff).

I'm going to buy a Staccato and have John work his magic. It's just a matter of which one to buy (P or C2)

What would you have Jardine do to it?

[PD Sgt.]

I recently ordered a “C” model (single stack compared to the double stack C2). This solved my magazine concerns as I already have a bunch from other pistols. For me it is not a duty gun so the reduced capacity is less of an issue.

[KevH]

What would you have Jardine do to it?

Literally whatever he wants to.

I'll just take the gun to him and ask him to make sure it will work.

Once, when I needed to give him my gun he had built for me back he told me to bring another 1911 with me. I brought another high-end custom 1911 with me that I thought ran fine.

While we BS'ed for a couple hours he went through the entire gun, nearly every part filing and stoning things (I wished I had paid more attention). He handed it back to me and said, "That should hold you over for a couple a weeks until I get you your gun back." That gun will feed out-of-spec ammo and has not had a single malfunction of any kind since. I know plenty of other people who have had similar experiences. Nothing on guns worked on by him seem to ever break.

John is some type of wizard. It's hard to explain unless you've experienced it first hand.

[M2CattleCo]

I don't think the price is the main issue with Stacatto as a duty-grade gun. Why do we believe that the company formerly known as STI has finally made a 2011 as reliable as a Glock?

For example: Doesn't the gun still require tuned extractors? How do the magazines perform after the Teflon coating wears, or when dirty/sandy? Can you cause magazine-related malfunctions by an impact that subtly changes the lip geometry (which you cannot see)?



I think this is the fourth time I can remember them trying to push the 2011 into the duty/military market.

I can’t tell any difference from the other 2011s but everyone says the mags are better.

I bet I would have one all clogged up with 147 HST by day three. At the latest.

[theJanitor]

Literally whatever he wants to.

I'll just take the gun to him and ask him to make sure it will work.

Once, when I needed to give him my gun he had built for me back he told me to bring another 1911 with me. I brought another high-end custom 1911 with me that I thought ran fine.

While we BS'ed for a couple hours he went through the entire gun, nearly every part filing and stoning things (I wished I had paid more attention). He handed it back to me and said, "That should hold you over for a couple a weeks until I get you your gun back." That gun will feed out-of-spec ammo and has not had a single malfunction of any kind since. I know plenty of other people who have had similar experiences. Nothing on guns worked on by him seem to ever break.

John is some type of wizard. It's hard to explain unless you've experienced it first hand.

I know a few Jardine owners and they say the same thing. I’ve never had one myself. Maybe one day…

Do you think you could have brought a pre-staccato STI and he could make it run?

[vcdgrips]

Edge of my lane. Rambles follow.

I suspect GJM could weigh in re a Jardine Gun. I have heard the same thing re Jardine and his ability to make a good gun great and a great one superlative from a number of serious 1911 guys over the years.

I get a 1911 style triggered gun being easier to shoot well. Undoubtedly true for the vast majority of shooters

I know me. I would be an extraordinarily unhappy camper if I had north of 2K in a system that was not Glock 19/17/45 reliable. It really becomes a 5k proposition by the time you buy a second gun, associated mags, holsters, pouches, etc. Given the 2011 platform's historic penchant for requiring "tuned" magazines at 50-100 a pop, I remain skeptical re the Staccato offerings long term.


Fore better or worse, I am "stuck" in a Glock or traditional 1911 world unless something comes along that really moves the bead forward and has Glock 9mm like reliability from the box.

The Wilson EDC series may be that gun at 3kish. I am hopeful the the Dan Wesson DWX is such a beast at 1500ish.

[saberwalk]

I had the chance to see a bunch of Staccatos in action this weekend at a class and to shoot a couple. I'm in an admin assignment at work right now so I wear a polo and 5.11 pants 80% of the time and only wear a uniform about 20% although that could change and I could go back to patrol tomorrow (at some point I'll be back in a uniformed patrol assignment again...and then probably another investigations assignment...I still have awhile left).

I had been thinking a "P" but after shooting a C2 I'm leaning that direction.

Pro's and Con's:

(+) It's a little smaller (easier to conceal).
(+) It seems quite a bit lighter.
(+) Safariland does not make a holster for it, but US Duty Gear does (screw new Safariland anyway).
(+) Comfortable full three finger grip and accepts any size 2011 mag
(--) More recoil and shoots less flat
(--) C2 for some reason only comes with 3 mags and the P comes with 6 for LE (I called them today and verified...boo!)
(--) Dawson Tooless guiderod is not available...just the Recoilmaster system

Am I missing anything? What says the PF hive mind?

Please don't say to buy both. I'm going to have to sell some stuff to fund it as it is.

I bought both over the past couple of months. A negative of the C2 is that the 16-round are the only flush fit magazines. The 17 and 20-round mags will fit in it as well but wobble around a bit. The C2 shoots well but the P shoots softer/flatter(?), which makes sense given the size difference. If you are not a fan of Safariland, take a look at BlackHawk. I think they have a T-series holster for the C2.

This is a hobby for me so will defer to others on the logistics and cost-effectiveness of the magazines. I have fired about 500 rounds through the P and about 200 rounds through the C2 -- no issues so far, for what that's worth.

[bofe954]

What caliber are you getting? 9mm I think I'd be tempted to go Wilson and get a gun and mag designed for the caliber.

I know Guncrafter makes a double stack, and Alchemy, Nighthawk.

Coming from a USPSA background vs LE, STI to me is the company that launched an industry for gunsmiths.

[Spartan1980]

If the 2011 platform ever moves out of it's niche core group of users I'll believe it when I see it. Most P-F members would certainly qualify but I just don't see them ever being a mainstream duty tool. The gun I had was fine with just a little normal 1911 type care. Lube, cleanliness, etc. It wasn't the problem.

It was the mags. Everytime they hit the ground the base plates had to come off and everything had to be brushed. If you got lazy with that, they would salt shaker on you...Every.Single.Time. I don't see that conducive to duty use except for the very dedicated. Mine would feed about every bullet you could ask to stuff in a .40SW case and at lengths from factory to 1.200" just as long as the mags were spotless and had good springs in them. 9mm is even more finicky IME.

They are great guns, but not for everybody.

[JHC]

I
Pro's and Con's:

(+) It's a little smaller (easier to conceal).


I recently saw my first C2 and fired a couple mags through it. Yeah I guess its only a little smaller than a P. I was surprised by the bulk of the C2; I just pictured it smaller. Probably got confused by the single stack C.

I wasn't overly impressed with it. Maybe have to shoot it more.

[M2CattleCo]

If the 2011 platform ever moves out of it's niche core group of users I'll believe it when I see it. Most P-F members would certainly qualify but I just don't see them ever being a mainstream duty tool. The gun I had was fine with just a little normal 1911 type care. Lube, cleanliness, etc. It wasn't the problem.

It was the mags. Everytime they hit the ground the base plates had to come off and everything had to be brushed. If you got lazy with that, they would salt shaker on you...Every.Single.Time. I don't see that conducive to duty use except for the very dedicated. Mine would feed about every bullet you could ask to stuff in a .40SW case and at lengths from factory to 1.200" just as long as the mags were spotless and had good springs in them. 9mm is even more finicky IME.

They are great guns, but not for everybody.


The STI guys would disassemble the mags, brush them out, roll the ammo in a silicone cloth, store the mags with the springs out…. All to feed 100 rounds of ammo carefully handloaded to the exact unique recipe tailored to that gun, from magazines with hand tuned feedlips and their own special combination of spring and follower.

Snow. Flake.

[GJM]

If the 2011 platform ever moves out of it's niche core group of users I'll believe it when I see it. Most P-F members would certainly qualify but I just don't see them ever being a mainstream duty tool. The gun I had was fine with just a little normal 1911 type care. Lube, cleanliness, etc. It wasn't the problem.

It was the mags. Everytime they hit the ground the base plates had to come off and everything had to be brushed. If you got lazy with that, they would salt shaker on you...Every.Single.Time. I don't see that conducive to duty use except for the very dedicated. Mine would feed about every bullet you could ask to stuff in a .40SW case and at lengths from factory to 1.200" just as long as the mags were spotless and had good springs in them. 9mm is even more finicky IME.

They are great guns, but not for everybody.

I thought the magazines were a feature not a bug, so the Open and Limited guys could clean mags each stage instead of tape and set steel.

I was shooting a 2011 in the 90's and took a STI in .45 to NTI 8 or so.

[Exiledviking]

With the gen 3 mags that are shipped now and Jardine going thru that pistol I'd say you should have a great running handgun. Seems to me most the issues encountered with the magazines were the longer magazines (17 and 20 round mags) and the earlier generations of mags.

It's on my wishlist to own a Jardine tuned pistol. I was fortunate to get to shoot a friend's Springfield Armory 1911 that had been tuned by Jardine. There's definitely something special about the guns tuned by him. Magical comes to mind.

[JHC]

I've seen John do things with 1911's and Glocks I didn't think were even possible (Fowler Ind resells his Glock stuff).

I'm going to buy a Staccato and have John work his magic. It's just a matter of which one to buy (P or C2)

I look forward to shooting a P one of these days in comparison to the C2. Kevin B got a P with an optic earlier this year and has been very impressed and I think he's got about 8K rounds on it. Liked it so much he's bought a second with just the irons for carry. He routinely carries a 5" 1911 so he's not that into the smaller equation.

[Sig_Fiend]

I'll be that guy. Being PF, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the people management angle... ;)

[Whiskey_Bravo]

I'll be that guy. Being PF, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the people management angle... ;)

True, but the LEM was deemed the best people management trigger. The SAO has always been deemed the best direct action/threat-stopping trigger. With the Glock system lumped in somewhere in between the two. Like a back-hoe machine. Okay at two specific tasks, but never excelling in one or the other.

[Wonder9]

A whole bunch of our officers have bought P' and C2s in the last 2 years. A couple of our SWAT guys are heavily pushing to replace their 2 year old 226 Legion 9mms with Staccatos. Because CDI and OAF. 4 years ago it was Glocks...then CZ P10's were the only gun to have. Now Staccato. Strangely seemed to follow the preferences of a particular prominent trainer or two.

The Glock 17 was invented specifically to combat gear queerness of that nature.

[rathos]

If the C2 is anything like the P DUO you will be fine. I have been personally using the P DUO for a while for uniform carry. The only change I made was going to the 509T as I wanted an enclosed emitter since I am in the pacific NW and it rains a lot. Since I recently retired, I decided that I would get a second Staccato and decided to go with the C2 duo. I filled out my paper work the other day but am waiting for it to clear. The gun felt way better than the P in my hand. I plan on putting about 1k through it along with 50 Speer G2's once it gets out of jail.

From what I can see most of the people posting are going off of STI's previous guns. Also, do the Heroes program, only took about 2 weeks for them to ship the gun.

[KevH]

So after hemming and hawing over which model to buy for a couple weeks, I discovered there was an uncatalogued option...

An aluminum-framed Staccato P Duo :cool:

It weighs just a skosh more than the C2, but offers the Dawson tool-less guide rod, and comes with six mags.

Considering I've chosen to carry a G17 over G19 (owning both) for years, it just made sense to go with the slightly larger version if weight wasn't the deciding factor.

I already ordered a Gen1 grip from Dawson to swap out once it gets here since I think I prefer it over the G2.

[Corse]

So after hemming and hawing over which model to buy for a couple weeks, I discovered there was an uncatalogued option...

An aluminum-framed Staccato P Duo :cool:

It weighs just a skosh more than the C2, but offers the Dawson tool-less guide rod, and comes with six mags.

Considering I've chosen to carry a G17 over G19 (owning both) for years, it just made sense to go with the slightly larger version if weight wasn't the deciding factor.

I already ordered a Gen1 grip from Dawson to swap out once it gets here since I think I prefer it over the G2.

How did you come buy this information. It sounds interesting.

[KevH]

How did you come buy this information. It sounds interesting.

Someone on another forum mentioned it so I called STI/Staccato and they said they make them, but haven't cataloged them (not on their website with a distinct item number) yet. The price (for now) is the same as a normal Staccato P so it made the decision somewhat easy.

I ordered a US Duty Gear rig for uniform work and a Milt Sparks OM-1 (also uncatalogued for some reason) for non-uniform.

[Jim Watson]

Seems like a strong opportunity for Magpul to make some 2011 PMAGs...

Never mind Magpul, I'd like Mecgar to get in the 2011 business. If they did a 2011 clip as good as my P226 magazines and in the same price range, I could hardly ask for more.

What I have (for match, not carry) are:
STI gen 1 which are fair 9mm but marginal .45.
STI gen 2 which feed reliably, but I did have one knock off its baseplate and spill its guts when dropped on a concrete floor. I wonder if a $40 milled aluminum base would stay put.

(I saw a picture of a magazine stamped GEN 3 but nothing said about its characteristics.)

MBX which are hideously expensive, reliable feeders, but I have found cartridges under the skimpy follower a couple of times and one total saltshaker experience. I THINK those were when I tried to top up and have a full magazine under a loaded chamber. So I don't do that any more. Try them again Sunday.

[JSGlock34]

Aluminum frame Staccato P DPO (https://nagelsguns.net/product/staccato-p-dpo-aluminum-frame-9mm-pistol-stainless-steel-flush-cut-barrel-magwell-4-40-10-1201-000000/).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWYuLJ6-oXc

[KevH]

JSGlock34

Well heck, that's the first one I've seen in a picture or video.

I'm super stoked to get this thing. Gen2 grip and the magwell will come off when it arrives.

The lightweight frame and the Gen1 grip with 17 rounders and a DPP should be just the ticket for me.

[Bergeron]

An aluminum frame on a P? Now that’s neat! 2011s get heavy quick, and that’s cool.

[rathos]

The DPP is a great optic. Never had any battery issues with mine, but changed it out for a 509T because of the rain in the PNW. I am going to put the DPP on my new C2 once it gets out of background check jail as concealed carry is all I do any more. I can't wait to hear a review on the aluminum framed DUO P, my regular DUO P has been an awesome weapon.


JSGlock34

Well heck, that's the first one I've seen in a picture or video.

I'm super stoked to get this thing. Gen2 grip and the magwell will come off when it arrives.

The lightweight frame and the Gen1 grip with 17 rounders and a DPP should be just the ticket for me.

[Bucky]

(--) Dawson Tooless guiderod is not available...just the Recoilmaster system


Is the Recoilmaster that thing that began life as a Springco? I have one of those in my STI VIP, and I truly hate it. If I ever used that gun, I’d have a solid guide rod configured for it.

[Bucky]

Is it possible to make mass-produced, generic, inexpensive 2011 magazines that are reliable under heavy use, long-term? Magpul has done it with AR and AK PMags. They have sort-of achieved it with Glock PMags, but not quite.

In this case the answer isn’t Magpul. It’s Mec-Gar.

[Bucky]

I’ve shot one (P), not extensively, but enough to have a favorable impression. If it were, say, $1500.

But not for the $2500 asking price (plus whatever they want for a mounting plate, mags, etc).


I looked at them as well but ended up with a Wilson edc x9 as my do all gun. Couldn't be happier, not one thing I would change about it. Other than the price.

If the Staccatos are getting EDC X9 prices, the EDC X9 is a no brainer for me. While I’ve not had a “Staccato”, I’ve had several STIs and briefly carried my VIP.

[Clusterfrack]

In this case the answer isn’t Magpul. It’s Mec-Gar.

I have Mec-Gar CZ mags that have at least 10,000 rounds through each of them. With the same mag springs. Dropped on rocky ground countless times. And they work like new. It would be nice to think that Mec-Gar has some voodoo that can make 2011 mags that reliable.

However, I'm highly skeptical that this is possible. My view of the 2011 is a tiny island of reliability, surrounded by an ocean of malfunctions. These guns can run great until ... mags get dirty, feed lips get bent just a little, recoil spring wears, ammo is different, etc.

It would take way more than slick marketing and John Wick movies to convince me to use one for life safety purposes.

[Bucky]

I have Mec-Gar CZ mags that have at least 10,000 rounds through each of them. With the same mag springs. Dropped on rocky ground countless times. And they work like new. It would be nice to think that Mec-Gar has some voodoo that can make 2011 mags that reliable.

However, I'm highly skeptical that this is possible. My view of the 2011 is a tiny island of reliability, surrounded by an ocean of malfunctions. These guns can run great until ... mags get dirty, feed lips get bent just a little, recoil spring wears, ammo is different, etc.

It would take way more than slick marketing and John Wick movies to convince me to use one for life safety purposes.

Back in the day, I was “that guy non gendered specific person”. I took my mags apart and cleaned them between stages. Replaced springs yearly, etc. Today, I’ll shoot entire matches without cleaning my mags (both open and limited 2011s), and my guns run without issues. I don’t even clean them between matches unless mud was involve. Oh, and they’re the older generation mags where each one is slightly different. They still just run and run. Admittedly, both guns were initially tuned or built by a reputable smith (my open gun I shot yesterday is an EGW build from 1999). Also, both have Aftec extractors, so I never have to worry about extractor tuning after the initial setup. Sure, you may not be able to pop the box and get that reliability, but set up correctly they can be quite reliable and withstand a heck of a lot of abuse.

As for bending the feed lips, I don’t know about the newer generation magazines, however I don’t think I can bend the feed lips on the older generation magazines that I own even if I use the pair of pliers. These things have some pretty thick stainless steel.

[03RN]

A shooter at a match today made a joke about living dangerously and not cleaning his mags before a stage.

I laughed and said I don't think I've cleaned a magazine in 15 years.

Eta, he looked horrified lol

[TGS]

This thread is more confusing to me than helpful, because people keep referencing STI/2011 mag issues even though the mags that STI developed for the Staccato P are supposed to be a different design that have fixed the issues with the old mags.......so much so, that STI/Staccato company personnel have been on podcasts and whatnot describing the differences, how big it matters, and that they even are replacing 1:1 old mags with the Staccato ones (or at least were at some point when I listened to those podcasts). Supposedly, this was the cornerstone of the Staccato development, as STI had gone through a "come to jesus" moment and hired a bunch of outside professionals to turn the 2011 into a duty-grade gun.

It'd be really helpful when speaking about mag issues if people could note whether they're referring to legacy 2011/STI mags or if they're referring to mags relevant to this thread topic: Staccato. This thread is not about legacy 2011s or their mag issues.

[Clusterfrack]

This thread is more confusing to me than helpful, because people keep referencing STI/2011 mag issues even though the mags that STI developed for the Staccato P are supposed to be a different design that have fixed the issues with the old mags.......so much so, that STI/Staccato company personnel have been on podcasts and whatnot describing the differences, how big it matters, and that they even are replacing 1:1 old mags with the Staccato ones (or at least were at some point when I listened to those podcasts). Supposedly, this was the cornerstone of the Staccato development, as STI had gone through a "come to jesus" moment and hired a bunch of outside professionals to turn the 2011 into a duty-grade gun.

It'd be really helpful when speaking about mag issues if people could note whether they're referring to legacy 2011/STI mags or if they're referring to mags relevant to this thread topic: Staccato. This thread is not about legacy 2011s or their mag issues.

That's a good thing to point out, and my experience is entirely with original STI and MBX mags. About the new STI mags: I simply don't believe the hype. I've heard it too many times. I'm sure Jesus is sick and tired of 2011 manufacturers always bugging him about reliable mags.

5 years from now, after there's some real-world testing, if Staccatos run like Glocks I'm ready to eat crow.

[And I should probably stop posting about 2011s, because I do not own one anymore]

[JSGlock34]

It'd be really helpful when speaking about mag issues if people could note whether they're referring to legacy 2011/STI mags or if they're referring to mags relevant to this thread topic: Staccato. This thread is not about legacy 2011s or their mag issues.

Also worth noting that even the new Staccato magazines are already up to GEN3 (stamped G3 on the back). Even with the new magazines, reports of problems seldom mention the generation. My impression is that the 20 rounders appear more prone to issue than the 17s.
77011

[porkster]

Also worth noting that even the new Staccato magazines are already up to GEN3 (stamped G3 on the back). Even with the new magazines, reports of problems seldom mention the generation. My impression is that the 20 rounders appear more prone to issue than the 17s.
77011

Not sure why Staccato is so tight lipped on the gen 3. They seemed to gush information about how the gen 2 mags were a huge improvement over the originals.

I have six of the gen 2 mags and have unreliable slide lock just like many others. Saw some information on how the follower for the "newer" (but they never say gen 3) mags has been improved, along with the slide stop, but cannot find any of those upgrades for sale for my unknown gen Staccato P (rolling changes).

Parts and references still are "gen2" everywhere.

I don't really care about added performance or cosmetic features for newer guns, but reliability upgrades especially for a company that is marketing duty ready pistols seem to be sideways.

[Bucky]

This thread is not about legacy 2011s or their mag issues.

We’re 55 posts into a thread on Pistol Forum. Be grateful we’re not talking about catnip. ;)

[Bucky]

Back in the day, I was “that guy non gendered specific person”. I took my mags apart and cleaned them between stages. Replaced springs yearly, etc. Today, I’ll shoot entire matches without cleaning my mags (both open and limited 2011s), and my guns run without issues. I don’t even clean them between matches unless mud was involve. Oh, and they’re the older generation mags where each one is slightly different. They still just run and run. Admittedly, both guns were initially tuned or built by a reputable smith (my open gun I shot yesterday is an EGW build from 1999). Also, both have Aftec extractors, so I never have to worry about extractor tuning after the initial setup. Sure, you may not be able to pop the box and get that reliability, but set up correctly they can be quite reliable and withstand a heck of a lot of abuse.

As for bending the feed lips, I don’t know about the newer generation magazines, however I don’t think I can bend the feed lips on the older generation magazines that I own even if I use the pair of pliers. These things have some pretty thick stainless steel.

Something occurred to me after re-reading this that needs to be added. I reload my own ammo, but haven’t done so in over a year (move and new workshop not completed), which is probably why it slipped my mind. I load ammo at longer OAL when loading for my STI / SV guns.

Also, my 9mm magazines are first Gen SV magazines, not STI. (My .40s are STI).

My point being, and this may apply to newer Gen magazines as well, perhaps we’re seeing the same issues that we’ve seen in single stack 1911s. We’re putting a 9mm cartridge in a .45 frame and magazine. It’s like putting a Subaru STI engine in a 1970 Chevelle.

Another plus to the EDC X9 is the frame and mags are sized to the 9mm.

[HCM]

We’re 55 posts into a thread on Pistol Forum. Be grateful we’re not talking about catnip. ;)

Better we were talking about catnip than putting out bad info which confuses the issue at hand.


The Stacatto with factory ammo and stacatto mags are designed (or in this case re-designed) to work as a system just like other modern duty guns.

It is intended to eliminate all the fiddle farting and tinkering commonly associated with 1911/2011 guns.

Lube gun, feed it duty grade ammo (including training ammo) clean more than a Glock. That’s what you are supposed to do to a Stacatto. If it has an issue send it back to the mother ship like any other modern duty gun.

Hence anecdote about STIs and other 2011s particular modified and or with non standard hand loads just muddle the issue because one should not be doing any of that with a duty gun.

Having seen how the old STI made their mags I’m not surprised they got the poor results they did. Stacatto outsourcing mag production to a company that specializes in mag production is as significant as the redesign of the mag itself.

[Jim Watson]

I have six of the gen 2 mags and have unreliable slide lock just like many others. Saw some information on how the follower for the "newer" (but they never say gen 3) mags has been improved, along with the slide stop, but cannot find any of those upgrades for sale for my unknown gen Staccato P (rolling changes).

My Gen 2s are reliable feeders but since their only use is USPSA, I have no idea of whether they will slide stop.

Some people would update W.W. Greener; "if 17 shots have been fired and the peril has not been abated, there are probably better things to do with the time remaining than hastily reloading the pistol."

[Clusterfrack]

…From what I hear there have been some issues with employee retention throughout the economy, and firearms related stuff is no different. I’ve heard that some 20rd magazines (from a vendor) have been supplied with 17rd springs and there was talk that the 20rd springs on some earlier generation mags were too weak... but some work great.

The three 16rd C2 mags and five 17rd P mags I’ve been using (gen 3) have been flawless so far over maybe 1,000 rounds.

Treat the Staccato like any other 1911 and test magazines and guns. If mags don’t work - get rid of them. If guns donw’t work, get them tuned and fixed. If you’re not sure, send the whole thing back and keep doing it until it runs 100%.

[rdtompki]

I bought a "C" a few months ago for (civilian) EDC. I couldn't be happier: light, soft-shooting, easy to conceal, and accurate. It has cycled everything I've fed it with Tripp Cobra mags that I run in my full-size 9mm 1911. Tripp officer mags (9 and 10 round) work just fine and have the small base pad extension to extend the front strap for a bit better pinky purchase. As an added bonus the softest steel challenge loads used in my full-size function in the "C" (and drop near my right foot). If USPSA would allow compact 1911s in Carry Optics the "C" would do very well IMO in pure stock configuration.

[GearFondler]

Aaron Cowan...

https://youtu.be/Z67jgDdZB7M