Current opinions of the Colt LE6920?

[oregon45]

I'm looking for an AR that is ready to go out of the box with no need to scour the internet for out-of-stock parts; is the Colt LE6920 still the go-to commercial AR in the $1000 range?

[Andy T]

Based on Chris Bartocci's comments, latest Colts are parts guns and aren't what they were 4-5 years ago.

[call_me_ski]

They are good to go despite what some you tube personalities believe.

Colt outsourcing parts is not a revelation. Colt using a cage codes and laser engravers is not something that matters to professional users.

[HCM]

I'm looking for an AR that is ready to go out of the box with no need to scour the internet for out-of-stock parts; is the Colt LE6920 still the go-to commercial AR in the $1000 range?

The current 6920 is still a functional duty quality rifle.

The fact that it’s not exactly the same rifle as the “golden period” the masturbating fan boys like to fap over is irrelevant from a functional standpoint.

[HCM]

Based on Chris Bartocci's comments, latest Colts are parts guns and aren't what they were 4-5 years ago.

Colt’s guns also weren’t what they were 5 years before that.

How may years did colt use non standard pins, BCG, sear block receivers etc ?

Chris Bartocci is, at best a gun fondler obsessed with trivia.

[M2CattleCo]

Based on Chris Bartocci's comments, latest Colts are parts guns and aren't what they were 4-5 years ago.


That guy is a blowhard looking for enough youtube views to get enough followers to get monetized again after having a previous youtube channel cancelled.

The current 6920s are every bit the equal to the ones they’ve been making for the past 13 years.

[UNM1136]

I don't know how relevent my possibly outdated information is, but I became a pony lover after learning a bunch in Ken Elmore's armorer's course. Even after Colt lost the .gov contracts, they had the infrastructure in place in the factory to ensure the guns were still built to spec. 349 separate gauging stations to measure each component to spec. If that is still the case, and the parts are go/no go screened before assembly, then your human being is the limiting factor. Humans can allow "marginal" parts through with "good enough" and "close enough". And then you have assembly, which is a human endevor.

I have a 14 year old 6920 with just over 9k rounds through it, 5 actual cleanings, and Zero full detail stips. Usually just gets a boresnake and brake cleaner as the post annual training/qual touch up. I use this gun for everything: taking classes, teaching classes, patrol, special assignments, demos, sims training. My agency just switched to Colts, away from our long held state contract M&P15s. The difference in preventive maintnenance and repairs is night and day. We are very pleased with our purchases.

If Giselle and BCM are still cranking out good stuff, they may be cheaper, and of good quality. I would not hesitate to buy a Colt for $1k tomorrow, if I had, you know, $1k.

pat

[theJanitor]

Every rifle I own is based off a 6920 or similar model. They're a fine service rifle, that accepts incremental or wholesale upgrades easily.

[HCM]

That guy is a blowhard looking for enough youtube views to get enough followers to get monetized again after having a previous youtube channel cancelled.

The current 6920s are every bit the equal to the ones they’ve been making for the past 13 years.


https://youtu.be/NhQ0DibXdHU

[g4pi09]

Just picked up a new CR6920 yesterday and other than cage codes and laser engraving I can’t tell a difference between the CR6920 and my 2013 LE6920. Scheels had them for $1199 but since they price match I was able to get it for $955 plus cost of transfer fee and shipping. (Price matched Charlie’s custom clones)

[Lost River]

Colt and FN are the two that I would be perfectly comfortable about grabbing a box stock rifle and expecting it to run.

I have shot a LOT of brand spanking new M4A1s that came straight from the factory, and never, not once, was there a single problem with one functioning.


https://i.imgur.com/UU60N7C.jpg

[Beat Trash]

I’d be ok with a new CR6920.

But another option to consider, Colt has quietly been shipping new CR6960’s, which sell for around $1,050 - $1,100.

Basically a 16” mid-length barrel with a 13” Centurion Arms M-Lok rail.

[HCM]

$845 on sale with code FALL

https://www.reedssports.com/firearms/colt-m4-carbine-5-56mm-16in-cr6920

[19852+]

IMO Colt is still Colt. I've had a Colt carbine since 2009 and it has been flawless. It hasn't been used enough to break anything and I keep the spring fresh enough. I've since built a couple of uppers using Colt for the main parts; BCG , barrel, upper receiver and those parts have performed as expected. In my limited experience Colt is still a go to builder.

[Lost River]

$845 on sale with code FALL

https://www.reedssports.com/firearms/colt-m4-carbine-5-56mm-16in-cr6920

You would have to be Ray Charles to not see what is coming. I have ZERO intent of turning this discussion political, only to point out that right now, these are available. In 6-12-18-24 months, you may not be able to buy one of these for triple this price and guys will be kicking themselves in their third point of contact, saying "Why didn't I when I had the chance?".

We will have another manufactured shooting, a "national crisis" and then some BS excuse why all of the sudden we are not allowed to buy or sell these and things like them any more.

If you don't have one and want one, waiting would not be wise with the current regime.

Just food for thought.

[HCM]

You would have to be Ray Charles to not see what is coming. I have ZERO intent of turning this discussion political, only to point out that right now, these are available. In 6-12-18-24 months, you may not be able to buy one of these for triple this price and guys will be kicking themselves in their third point of contact, saying "Why didn't I when I had the chance?".

We will have another manufactured shooting, a "national crisis" and then some BS excuse why all of the sudden we are not allowed to buy or sell these and things like them any more.

If you don't have one and want one, waiting would not be wise with the current regime.

Just food for thought.

I'm well fixed for ARs but I'm having the same internal monologue regarding an HK SP5 pistol.

The other factor for those in the AR market is that historically Colt has halted civilian AR sales when prices drop.

[Mitch]

You would have to be Ray Charles to not see what is coming. I have ZERO intent of turning this discussion political, only to point out that right now, these are available. In 6-12-18-24 months, you may not be able to buy one of these for triple this price and guys will be kicking themselves in their third point of contact, saying "Why didn't I when I had the chance?".

We will have another manufactured shooting, a "national crisis" and then some BS excuse why all of the sudden we are not allowed to buy or sell these and things like them any more.

If you don't have one and want one, waiting would not be wise with the current regime.

Just food for thought.

I have a 6920 that’s never been shot and I don’t have the interest right now to even get it set up with an optic or zeroed. But every time I think about selling it I can’t make myself do it because of everything you just said. I’m afraid we might be at the tail end of the good old days right now.

Shit, I may buy another couple just to make sure my kids and grandkids have some.

[Lost River]

Yep,

Kids/Grandkids definitely will need a good AR. Along with a hunting rifle (if that is something that is part of your culture) a good .22 rifle, and a good handgun.

Equally as important is educating them in the skill sets to use such tools, along with being able to appreciate the outdoors, and being self sufficient.






https://i.imgur.com/jkt5u5I.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/3ztEPbv.jpg?3


https://i.imgur.com/ntK6i49.jpg?1


https://i.imgur.com/G3yIWCR.jpg




https://i.imgur.com/xQHzZqJ.jpg



Raising little Wolverines takes a lot of time, effort and commitment.


But they are worth it.



https://i.imgur.com/pHkhMAG.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/WDvZfT1.jpg?1

Do it while you can.

:cool:

[Mitch]

Our kids can definitely hang out together.

Mine are all getting a 9mm pistol, a 12 gauge, a good AR, and a 308 bolt gun. If they want a 350 legend or a 450 bushmaster to go deer hunting with their old man around home I’ll happily oblige that too.

[HCM]

I have a 6920 that’s never been shot and I don’t have the interest right now to even get it set up with an optic or zeroed. But every time I think about selling it I can’t make myself do it because of everything you just said. I’m afraid we might be at the tail end of the good old days right now.

Shit, I may buy another couple just to make sure my kids and grandkids have some.

Don't forget plenty of mags. They are a wear item and are currently cheap and availible.

[BWT]

The only thing I’ve heard is the parts are different.

Now how relevant that is I am unsure. It seems not at all.

I am happy that CZ has taken ownership and I’d be interested to see if the warranty improves from one year which was Colt’s to the five for CZ.

[rob_s]

Based on Chris Bartocci's comments, latest Colts are parts guns and aren't what they were 4-5 years ago.

who?

[rob_s]

I’d be ok with a new CR6920.

But another option to consider, Colt has quietly been shipping new CR6960’s, which sell for around $1,050 - $1,100.

Basically a 16” mid-length barrel with a 13” Centurion Arms M-Lok rail.

they seem to be commanding a premium, at the moment?

https://gun.deals/search/apachesolr_search/098289023506

76224

[Beat Trash]

In stock CR6960’s are at a premium. But I feel the dust has yet to settle in the current market. If Colt starts shipping more of these, as well as CR6920’s, then we might see prices stabilize somewhat.

I’m currently good with AR’s. But if I were in the market for a new AR and the 6960’s got back down to the $1,050, it would be a strong contender for me.

I am very curious, and slightly hopeful that Colt will start coming out with more options due to its new CZ ownership.

We shall see…

[rob_s]

if I were in the market for a new AR and the 6960’s got back down to the $1,050, it would be a strong contender for me.

That gun, at that price, would be my "new AR" buy as well.

[awp_101]

they seem to be commanding a premium, at the moment?

https://gun.deals/search/apachesolr_search/098289023506

76224

It certainly looks like it. I looked the websites of 3 local places and they were all in the $1100-1300 range for CR6920s. I don’t need another AR but I’m tempted to snag one of these and turn one of my cheap ass frugal builds into a dedicated .22 LR rig.

[call_me_ski]

I just backordered another LE6945 upper. Really working hard to resist buying a LE6920. What I really should do is buy one for each of the kids.

I went through a phase of going through all the premium rifle brands, I have come full circle back to Colt.

[willie]

My lgs specializes in AR's, and rifle sales have slowed down. They recently sold a new 6920 for $1000. l have two Colts, an A1 bought in 1987 and a recently bought 6920. I shoot rocks, stumps, and dirt clods with a hybrid, a Colt upper on a S&W lower. I tell people that right now there's not much price difference between an excellent AR and a shit gun.

[oregon45]

Thanks for the feedback everyone, I'll likely pick up a 6920 here in the next few weeks. The stores I shop at locally have had them in stock for $999 for awhile now.

[JMS]

Chris Bartocci's comments

...are typically twists of the data generated by weapon testing done by agencies such as my own. He's a proto-typical posturing drama queen of a gun-writer who rearranges the facts into a pattern most pleasing to him...one that tends to generate the most clicks.

That TDP is unchanged. The system either meets/exceeds the spec, or it does not. Gun is fine.

[Elwin]

I’m down to one AR, a BCM upper on an Aero lower that’s basically a Magpulized, mid length 6920. I built it at a time when finances dictated buying pieces at a time and Colts weren’t really available, but if things had been different I’d be just as happy with a stock Colt. If I get the opportunity to add a second and Colts are around for under $1300, that’s what I’ll go with. Everything I need, nothing I don’t, etc. etc. I’m getting less and less picky.

[Greg Bell]

It heartens me to see so many folks whose options I respect also think the Colts are still gtg. I am sick of a couple of you tubers starting click bait videos and that suddenly becoming “fact.” I will say this for Bartochhi, after first sort of endorsing Mac’s stupid, dumbass video you will note a lot of disclaimers in Chris’s more recent videos and YouTube chats. These days he seems to acknowledge the guns are good they just aren’t exactly like they were when he was there . Fair enough.

I think the current EPR rifles are a great option for a modern, no-nonsense AR. All it really needs is a Geisele and you are basically done.

[SecondsCount]

The truth is that there are a lot of good options on the market these days, and the 6920 is still one of them. I've gone midlength on everything that is 16" in my stable or I would have one.

[HCM]

It heartens me to see so many folks whose options I respect also think the Colts are still gtg. I am sick of a couple of you tubers starting click bait videos and that suddenly becoming “fact.” I will say this for Bartochhi, after first sort of endorsing Mac’s stupid, dumbass video you will note a lot of disclaimers in Chris’s more recent videos and YouTube chats. These days he seems to acknowledge the guns are good they just aren’t exactly like they were when he was there . Fair enough.

I think the current EPR rifles are a great option for a modern, no-nonsense AR. All it really needs is a Geisele and you are basically done.

I just re-watched Mac's video. He is just regurgitating info provided to him by Chris Bartocci.

Their heartburn is that the guns are no longer marked the same and Colt appears to be using sub contracted 'cage code" parts rather than all or most of the parts being made in house.

No one has been able to articulate any functional or material defect in the rifles. It's just collector / fan boy BS.

[HCM]

The truth is that there are a lot of good options on the market these days, and the 6920 is still one of them. I've gone midlength on everything that is 16" in my stable or I would have one.

The 6960 EPR is a midlength. In case you need some enabling.

[Greg Bell]

Agreed.

I just re-watched Mac's video. He is just regurgitating info provided to him by Chris Bartocci.

Their heartburn is that the guns are no longer marked the same and Colt appears to be using sub contracted 'cage code" parts rather than all or most of the parts being made in house.

No one has been able to articulate any functional or material defect in the rifles. It's just collector / fan boy BS.

[BWT]

MAC went after the PSA AK103 for having a thicker AKM bolt stem, bolt lugs, and not having an analogous piston head to a SGL21. Did it affect function? No.

But it does have a CHF chrome lined barrel, forged bolt, trunions, and life time warranty.

But he like the Kalashnikov USA with a traditional button barrel, non-forged parts, but it looks more correct. He also didn’t like the FN barrel.

So… to me one is more “correct” and one I bought.

I own an SGL21 and honestly the correct piston head, bolt stem, etc. mean nothing compared to a CHF CL barrel, forged parts, etc. because that means real durability.

The SGL21 and 31 have a thinner bolt stem to keep commonality with the 5.45 variant, but IMHO the AKM was thicker and designed around the 7.62 not the 5.45.

But this kind of a parallel to the Colt 6920’s and the LE 6920 and CR 6920. At the end of the day is there literally any significant difference? It doesn’t seem there is.

[HCM]

MAC went after the PSA AK103 for having a thicker AKM bolt stem, bolt lugs, and not having an analogous piston head to a SGL21. Did it affect function? No.

But it does have a CHF chrome lined barrel, forged bolt, trunions, and life time warranty.

But he like the Kalashnikov USA with a traditional button barrel, non-forged parts, but it looks more correct. He also didn’t like the FN barrel.

So… to me one is more “correct” and one I bought.

I own an SGL21 and honestly the correct piston head, bolt stem, etc. mean nothing compared to a CHF CL barrel, forged parts, etc. because that means real durability.

The SGL21 and 31 have a thinner bolt stem to keep commonality with the 5.45 variant, but IMHO the AKM was thicker and designed around the 7.62 not the 5.45.

But this kind of a parallel to the Colt 6920’s and the LE 6920 and CR 6920. At the end of the day is there literally any significant difference? It doesn’t seem there is.

Translation: Mac's company, Copper Custom sells Kalashnikov USA AK's not PSA AKs.

[rob_s]

I just re-watched Mac's video. He is just regurgitating info provided to him by Chris Bartocci.

Never herd of her…

[jh9]

Their heartburn is that the guns are no longer marked the same and Colt appears to be using sub contracted 'cage code" parts rather than all or most of the parts being made in house.

No one has been able to articulate any functional or material defect in the rifles. It's just collector / fan boy BS.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/fear-loading-union-sues-colt-s-manufacturing/

My understanding is that they basically cut second shift work in house and subcontracted some barrels/bolts/etc. I have no idea what the result of the lawsuit was, if it's ongoing, etc.

I didn't watch the video, but I've got 2 Colt BCGs that exhibit differences in appearance; one made around the same time as the lawsuit and one in 2020.

https://i.imgur.com/lD7MbuD.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/eWqyUvE.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/4AxIS22.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ceI1Rge.jpg

One BCG is on a 6960 that got test fired, zeroed, cleaned and stored. The second BCG is a spare. If the material and manufacturing processes are correct then, like you said, it's of no meaningful concern to anyone other than collectors.

[M2CattleCo]

I’ve built up about 10 Colt OEM-2 uppers that were purchased by LE this year and all of them have been excellent. I think only one had an unmarked carrier, barrel markings have been various, all receivers cage code marked.

All of them have been perfect and run perfect. I’ve shot a lot of 6920 along with a few 16” mids lately and I’m totally of the opinion that mid gas is the most overblown, overhyped, overrated, misunderstood aspects of the AR.

Whatever Colt is doing with their barrels and bcgs, just works.

[Guerrero]

For those wondering, here's Mac's video that people are referencing:


https://youtu.be/hf43zByGu9U

[EPF]

Only a sample of 2, but for what it’s worth I was asked by a friend to help familiarize 2 brothers who were new AR owners this summer. Both gentlemen showed up with brand new “CR” carbines which were purchased at a local shop for 1k each.

The guns seemed rock solid as far as assembly, correct staking etc. Each gun held up to 500 rounds in about 5 hours. If I were in the market I’d buy one without concern.

[MistWolf]

Garand shooters are laughing their butts off!

[Phaedrus]

I just re-watched Mac's video. He is just regurgitating info provided to him by Chris Bartocci.

Their heartburn is that the guns are no longer marked the same and Colt appears to be using sub contracted 'cage code" parts rather than all or most of the parts being made in house.

No one has been able to articulate any functional or material defect in the rifles. It's just collector / fan boy BS.


Well, I've never owned a Colt rifle, only Colt 1911s back in the day, and I don't have a dog in this fight. But to be fair to Mr. Bartocci I don't think he ever claimed that a new Colt rifle is no good. Bear in mind that he's a historian and worked for Colt for five years so he has a very solid grasp on the history of the company. He's also written the technical and owners manual for dozens of rifles including my CORE15. Additionally he's written a couple of the better books extant on the AR/Black Rifle. He's definitely not just talking out of his ass. I've not seen every video but I've seen several hours of him discussing the history of Colt and specifically the M16/AR15/M4 platforms. My takeaway from all that is that he's simply saying that "back in the day" you could trace virtually every single part and component back to the maker, and that the vast majority of them were made in house. Further, he makes a solid case that it's not that way anymore. He never claims a new Colt sucks but there's kind of a Ship of Theseus point to be made. Setting aside the concept of stacking tolerances it's probably true that if all the individual parts meet spec the gun should be okay. But aside from the Pony roll mark (it's not a rollmark nowadays but you get my point) it's really a parts/Frankengun, kind of the firearms version of a hot dog with meat from 200 different animals. In theory a hot dog with parts of 200 beasts should be pretty much the same a weiner made from a single animal...but which one would you rather eat and which would you pay more for?

If anyone can find a record of Bartocci saying a new Colt is junk, please enlighten me. I could be mistaken. I'm going by the words I've heard him say though, not things attributed to him. BTW, MAC seems like a world-class douchebag (not that I've ever met him) and I place no value in his opinions.

Would I buy a new LE6920? I dunno. Just handing them there's nothing much to differentiate them from a decent milspec gun like my CORE15. The only ones I've shot were older ones from their better days. Probably now that CZ owns them I suppose it's a safe bet that the warranty will be honored if you have any issues. So long as you avoid Frankenguns assembled in JoeBubba's storage shed it seems that ARs are generally pretty solid from most reputable makers. I'm not their target market as I don't really have much use for the front sight post, and I tend to prefer just a flat rail. But that's only my personal preference. If you do want that kind of rifle I don't see why a person wouldn't buy one as they don't really seem overpriced.

[HCM]

Well, I've never owned a Colt rifle, only Colt 1911s back in the day, and I don't have a dog in this fight. But to be fair to Mr. Bartocci I don't think he ever claimed that a new Colt rifle is no good. Bear in mind that he's a historian and worked for Colt for five years so he has a very solid grasp on the history of the company. He's also written the technical and owners manual for dozens of rifles including my CORE15. Additionally he's written a couple of the better books extant on the AR/Black Rifle. He's definitely not just talking out of his ass. I've not seen every video but I've seen several hours of him discussing the history of Colt and specifically the M16/AR15/M4 platforms. My takeaway from all that is that he's simply saying that "back in the day" you could trace virtually every single part and component back to the maker, and that the vast majority of them were made in house. Further, he makes a solid case that it's not that way anymore. He never claims a new Colt sucks but there's kind of a Ship of Theseus point to be made. Setting aside the concept of stacking tolerances it's probably true that if all the individual parts meet spec the gun should be okay. But aside from the Pony roll mark (it's not a rollmark nowadays but you get my point) it's really a parts/Frankengun, kind of the firearms version of a hot dog with meat from 200 different animals. In theory a hot dog with parts of 200 beasts should be pretty much the same a weiner made from a single animal...but which one would you rather eat and which would you pay more for?

If anyone can find a record of Bartocci saying a new Colt is junk, please enlighten me. I could be mistaken. I'm going by the words I've heard him say though, not things attributed to him. BTW, MAC seems like a world-class douchebag (not that I've ever met him) and I place no value in his opinions.

Would I buy a new LE6920? I dunno. Just handing them there's nothing much to differentiate them from a decent milspec gun like my CORE15. The only ones I've shot were older ones from their better days. Probably now that CZ owns them I suppose it's a safe bet that the warranty will be honored if you have any issues. So long as you avoid Frankenguns assembled in JoeBubba's storage shed it seems that ARs are generally pretty solid from most reputable makers. I'm not their target market as I don't really have much use for the front sight post, and I tend to prefer just a flat rail. But that's only my personal preference. If you do want that kind of rifle I don't see why a person wouldn't buy one as they don't really seem overpriced.

The OP's requirements were:

1) an AR that is ready to go out of the box with no need to scour the internet for out-of-stock parts;

2) is the Colt LE6920 still the go-to commercial AR in the $1000 range?

The current CR6920 meets both those requirements.

Like "mil spec" the CR6920 is not a premium gun, it's the minimum for serious use.

I don't care about cosmetics, collectability or historical bloviating. I care about reliability, durability and accuracy.

Regarding the Ship of Theseus, Colt's change in the prefix from LE to CR negates that argument. Nor did "all US Govt. parts" ever equal "all parts made in house by Colt. "

Bartocci never directly said it was good or bad, because he doesn't want to further burn bridges, rather he did a lot of harumpfing about how it's "not the same" implying the CR guns were no good then backed off in later videos etc .


https://youtu.be/JN99jshaQbY

Despite all the "good old days BS in the gun world, the fact is some changes are for the better. An example being older S&W revolvers. The video below is from a S&W Armorer with nearly 50 years of experience explaining why he believes the current S&W revolvers are functionally better guns.


https://youtu.be/4h9l2ipiKf4

The Founder of P-F, Todd Louis Green best addressed the brand fan boyism so common in the gun world in his "Trust No One" blog post:

https://pistol-training.com/articles/trust-no-one-an-insiders-perspective


Trying to decide which pistol to buy? If so, you’re probably looking for one that is guaranteed to be durable and reliable. Well, I’ve got bad news for you. There is no such gun. The day when you could point to a particular brand or model and be certain it would work 100% out of the box and last forever is gone.

After ten years in the firearms industry, including jobs at two major prestigious gun manufacturers, I have come to a very simple conclusion: no one makes a gun that you can be certain will work. Bias and personal preferences aside, most of the major manufacturers are more or less equal nowadays in quality. It wasn’t always that way, but as price became an increasingly important factor in buying decisions of both individuals and government entities, everything changed.

[OlongJohnson]

He never claims a new Colt sucks but there's kind of a Ship of Theseus point to be made. Setting aside the concept of stacking tolerances it's probably true that if all the individual parts meet spec the gun should be okay. But aside from the Pony roll mark (it's not a rollmark nowadays but you get my point) it's really a parts/Frankengun, kind of the firearms version of a hot dog with meat from 200 different animals.

Sorry, you said "stacking tolerances" and that's one of my pet peeves in internet chatter about quality.

The bolded part is actually one fundamental characteristic of a proper design. If the specs are good, and the parts meet the specs and are assembled correctly, then the assembly is good. Period.

"Tolerance stacking" only leads to problems if the tolerances aren't actually designed correctly and the system depends on parts being made within a range that is less than the tolerances allowed for that part in the design documentation. That's not a manufacturing problem, it's a design problem. If the manufacturer accepts from its supply chain and uses parts that are not to print because they usually go together and function OK, that's a manufacturing problem.

---------------------------

My ARs all have parts from a bunch of different sources, which I've done research on and believe to be good and reliable. They're "parts guns," but I didn't pick out the parts for their low price, I picked them out for their quality and features. I don't believe any one company makes the best of everything. Some of the parts are Colt parts, because my research and what I can observe about the parts in hand indicates they are the best available of that part. Others are Mega Arms, BCM, Magpul, Geissele, even Armalite. And barrels based on which maker had specs I wanted at an appropriate price; ARP, Wilson Combat, Centurion, etc. I've sent multiple barrels back to the manufacturer for being junk, and there are companies I wouldn't waste anyone's time buying from or recommending. I have gauges, a bore scope, magnifiers, official manuals, patience, and a lot of tools.

I'm tempted by those $850 Colts, but can't figure out when I'd ever grab it over one of the rifles I already have. At least without replacing the furniture, and then still probably not.

[Phaedrus]

I can base my choices on what I feel is important but I can't choose for anyone else. Again, I have no issue with the Colt. More importantly I don't think Bartocci does either. That's my point, that people are misunderstanding his point of view. It may not matter to you or me what the cage code is on those parts but it might matter to someone. For that reason I respect the pedantic way he goes about his reviews. More info is better- one can always ignore or disregard the things that don't factor into your decision, but it's nice that the info is there for anyone that does care.

[Phaedrus]

I'm tempted by those $850 Colts, but can't figure out when I'd ever grab it over one of the rifles I already have. At least without replacing the furniture, and then still probably not.

That's about where I am. I'm not a collector nor rich guy but rather a humble chef. One of my best friends has been a big collector for decades and has amassed the kind of collection they used to do TV shows about (including old drillings that cost more than any vehicle I've ever owned). Maybe if I made 10X the money I do I'd have ten the gun collection I do!:o But as it is my stuff is just users, utilitarian guns that I plink with or train with. Even at just $850 there's a lot of "fat" on the LE6920 that I'd have to trim and replace. There's a way I like to set up all my carbines, as close to each other as possible for training reasons. But I'm sure it's a great base gun for someone that prefers their carbines set up differently. Realistically I shoot my Bren 805 the most, followed by my PWS MkI Mod1, then my AR.

[rob_s]

a decent milspec gun like my CORE15.

AFAIK CORE guns aren’t “milspec”.

[Lost River]

I can base my choices on what I feel is important but I can't choose for anyone else. Again, I have no issue with the Colt. More importantly I don't think Bartocci does either. That's my point, that people are misunderstanding his point of view. It may not matter to you or me what the cage code is on those parts but it might matter to someone. For that reason I respect the pedantic way he goes about his reviews. More info is better- one can always ignore or disregard the things that don't factor into your decision, but it's nice that the info is there for anyone that does care.

It sure is a gud thing we hav a such a smart fella such as yourseelf to explain it to us simpletons how all of us are misunderstanding his point of view.

[vcdgrips]

I am familiar with 10+ officers who have bought 6920s as the personally owned carbines for patrol/duty use in the last 24-36 months. During their 20 hour carbine transition class, they were all inspected by the dept armorer gunsmith who was military trained in the area prior to and during his tenure as a sworn officer before taking his present position at the academy as firearms training officer/armorer as a second career. When I took the course 6+ years ago, there were a few there in my class of 24 as well. All were GTG.

The 6920 mated with an Aimpoint Pro is the recommended turn key solution.

If I was in the mkt and could get a 6920 in my hand at 999.99 or less, I would buy with confidence.

[Lost River]

I am familiar with 10+ officers who have bought 6920s as the personally owned carbines for patrol/duty use in the last 24-36 months. During their 20 hour carbine transition class, they were all inspected by the dept armorer gunsmith who was military trained in the area prior to and during his tenure as a sworn officer before taking his present position at the academy as firearms training officer/armorer as a second career. When I took the course 6+ years ago, there were a few there in my class of 24 as well. All were GTG.

The 6920 mated with an Aimpoint Pro is the recommended turn key solution.

If I was in the mkt and could get a 6920 in my hand at 999.99 or less, I would buy with confidence.



That pretty well sums it up.



Bartocci is quite long on theory, having done a good bit of writing, theorizing, pontificating etc. Where he falls short is spending thousands of hours wrenching on weapons.

He is no Cris Murray of the USAMU or Will Larson (Iraq Gunz on the net). I might value his opinion if he had more time actually wrenching on guns instead of reading researching and writing. It is that whole theory vs reality thing. Much like a criminal justice professor who never was a police officer, but wants to tell his class and the world all about how law enforcement works, I think I can find more credible sources.

Spend a few thousand hours here:

https://i.imgur.com/mjUxBDF.jpg?1


https://i.imgur.com/8I3oI4W.jpg?1


Actually wrenching on guns in real (third) world crappy conditions, where the guns get used frequently due to training and events that are often not planned thanks to neighborhood disputes.



https://i.imgur.com/bwICYNZ.jpg


Armory time, bench time, range time, simply cannot be replaced, no matter how much you read. Cobbling together guns, testing them, building parts from totally different guns, etc are all things you have to actually do. Maintaining hundreds of rifles at a very active REO (Regional Embassy Office) will teach you not only what their strong and weak points are but what stupid crap people will do with them. It will also teach you what parts are most important to have on hand, what tools are critical, what stuff never ever gets used, etc.


https://i.imgur.com/gluWzpx.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/D0AU27X.jpg?2



Working both sides of the armorer bench, both carrying them and wrenching on them gave me a pretty solid foundation in their function and practical application. It also gave me a nose for sniffing out BS pretty quickly when I hear or read it. :rolleyes:

[Guerrero]

Lost River I have the same French Press. Good coffee cannot be underestimated.

[Lost River]

Lost River I have the same French Press. Good coffee cannot be underestimated.

Better believe it!

It is especially important when the powers that be send in crates of much needed M203s for your M4s, and everybody wants them right freaking now, and you are up half the night trying to make that happen. Problem is, they don't fit and you have no idea why.

Fortunately there was an older retired SEAL who was doing armorer work for another outfit not too far away who solved that mystery for me when I brought my problem to him. Little did I know, that the version I received was for A2 type weapons (fixed carry handle types), and not flattops. But the crusty older Frogman knew a trick that they don't teach in any schools and showed me how to modify them.

I had struggled for hours with the first one. After a bit of education and Leatherman surgery, the rest took minutes, thanks to being shown things that you are not likely to see in a Colt manual . :)

Then it was off to test fire Cheetos rounds !

Coffee and "Cheetos" :cool:

https://i.imgur.com/oAMgyhS.jpg?1

[oregon45]

That pretty well sums it up.




The first AR I put together was a Colt LE 6920 with a Leupold 1.5-5 in a Larue mount, based on posts of yours on another forum back about 10-years ago. I was in my late 20s then and that rifle, although it did everything I needed it to do, was just not "cool" enough--particularly as the AR market took off into the stratosphere after 2010.

So I spent the past decade chasing "cool" AR's. In that time I assembled several AR's and all worked well, and all were expensive trips down the rabbit hole. The last AR I assembled was intended to reflect "an all around" AR circa 2016, here it is with one of its rotating cast of LPVO's, a Trijicon 1-4:

https://i.imgur.com/Ac7flZQ.jpg?2

BCM upper, Ruger lower, BCM furniture, Geissele SSA-E trigger, Geissele scope mount, Geissele bolt release; Geissele charging handle; Arisaka flashlight and mount--I can hear the cash register ringing as I type :rolleyes: It was a nice rifle, but every time I looked at it I saw all the money I had invested in it that I could have used to buy what I really like and enjoy: vintage S&W N-frame revolvers, Ruger single actions, 1911's and H&K USP's. So I parted it out and used the proceeds to buy these:

https://i.imgur.com/maokYnX.jpg?1

So, after 10-years on the AR-build treadmill I'm back to where I should have stayed all along: looking at a Colt LE6920 fitted with a lightweight LPVO. I'll likely go with another Trijicon 1-4 Accupower, if I can find one on sale.

[BillSWPA]

The first AR I put together was a Colt LE 6920 with a Leupold 1.5-5 in a Larue mount, based on posts of yours on another forum back about 10-years ago. I was in my late 20s then and that rifle, although it did everything I needed it to do, was just not "cool" enough--particularly as the AR market took off into the stratosphere after 2010.

So I spent the past decade chasing "cool" AR's. In that time I assembled several AR's and all worked well, and all were expensive trips down the rabbit hole. The last AR I assembled was intended to reflect "an all around" AR circa 2016, here it is with one of its rotating cast of LPVO's, a Trijicon 1-4:

https://i.imgur.com/Ac7flZQ.jpg?2

BCM upper, Ruger lower, BCM furniture, Geissele SSA-E trigger, Geissele scope mount, Geissele bolt release; Geissele charging handle; Arisaka flashlight and mount--I can hear the cash register ringing as I type :rolleyes: It was a nice rifle, but every time I looked at it I saw all the money I had invested in it that I could have used to buy what I really like and enjoy: vintage S&W N-frame revolvers, Ruger single actions, 1911's and H&K USP's. So I parted it out and used the proceeds to buy these:

https://i.imgur.com/maokYnX.jpg?1

So, after 10-years on the AR-build treadmill I'm back to where I should have stayed all along: looking at a Colt LE6920 fitted with a lightweight LPVO. I'll likely go with another Trijicon 1-4 Accupower, if I can find one on sale.

How do the non-folding front sight and LPVO work together? Does one interfere with the other?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[oregon45]

How do the non-folding front sight and LPVO work together? Does one interfere with the other?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I didn't have a problem using the Leupold 1.5-5 with the fixed AR front sight. On 1.5 it could be seen, but did not obscure the sight picture, and at 5.5 it was almost unnoticeable. All of my use was on the square range at 50-100 yards so I can't speak to how it would work for close-range work or shooting on the move.

[Lost River]

That old 1.5-5 was a good choice back in the day. Kind of the dark ages compared to what is available now. That said it is still a nice little scope. It has seen a rough life but still is rocking right along. When I got home from over there I sent it in for servicing to make sure it would track right, and they rebuilt the whole thing. Funny thing about the whole LPVO thing is that back then (07-08 timeframe) it was extremely rare to see anyone running anything but an RDO or an ACOG on an M4.

The majority of the tactical community thinks it discovered, invented and pioneered the use of the LPVO on ARs. But western coyote hunters have been using them for a very long time, since it is so common to have coyotes come blasting in at close range to a call, or hang up at extended distances. It reminds me of the "Recce Rifle" concept. The first time I saw that I thought " That just looks like a coyote rifle".

https://i.imgur.com/AEJMWn1.jpg

[Lost River]

I didn't have a problem using the Leupold 1.5-5 with the fixed AR front sight. On 1.5 it could be seen, but did not obscure the sight picture, and at 5.5 it was almost unnoticeable. All of my use was on the square range at 50-100 yards so I can't speak to how it would work for close-range work or shooting on the move.


I kept mine on 1.5 power 90+% of the time and shot with both eyes open. The front sight post being sort of visible really does not interfere with anything. When you are shooting at targets you don't notice it at all. Then when you dial up to observe something, or take a more precise/longer shot, you don't see the FSP hardly at all, as Oregon45 mentioned. In practical use in the field, it really is not an issue.

[Lost River]

BTW Oregon45,

Those vintage revolvers look like way more fun than black rifles. To me at least. I get a lot more enjoyment fondling an old N Frame with some holster wear than the latest AR stuff any day. When people ask me what my all time favorite gun to shoot is, they are often surprised (if they know my background) that it is not an AR or Glock or something along those lines.

It is this:

My Marlin Model 39 Mountie .22

https://i.imgur.com/mljcwgh.jpg

Probably the last rifle I would ever part with.

[tango-papa]

Better believe it!

It is especially important when the powers that be send in crates of much needed M203s for your M4s, and everybody wants them right freaking now, and you are up half the night trying to make that happen. Problem is, they don't fit and you have no idea why.

Fortunately there was an older retired SEAL who was doing armorer work for another outfit not too far away who solved that mystery for me when I brought my problem to him. Little did I know, that the version I received was for A2 type weapons (fixed carry handle types), and not flattops. But the crusty older Frogman knew a trick that they don't teach in any schools and showed me how to modify them.

I had struggled for hours with the first one. After a bit of education and Leatherman surgery, the rest took minutes, thanks to being shown things that you are not likely to see in a Colt manual . :)

Then it was off to test fire Cheetos rounds !

Coffee and "Cheetos" :cool:



What was the modification trick?

[awp_101]

When people ask me what my all time favorite gun to shoot is, they are often surprised (if they know my background) that it is not an AR or Glock or something along those lines.

It is this:

My Marlin Model 39 Mountie .22

https://i.imgur.com/mljcwgh.jpg

Probably the last rifle I would ever part with.

Because at the end of the day no matter how high speed, fancy, adaptable or rock solid they can be, ARs and Glocks are tools.

Lever action .22s OTOH are works of art.:cool:

[Lost River]

What was the modification trick?

It had to do with modifying the quadrant sights to fit detachable carry handle weapons, as well as modifying the launchers themselves, as a standard M203 launcher designed for the M16 won't bolt up to an M4A1.

Fixed carry handle weapons (like an A2) have more distance height wise between the receiver and the top of the carry handle. That is one of the reasons why an A2 has a effective range of 800 meters, and an M4 has an effective range of 600 meters (95% of the AR world does not know that) . Detachable carry handle weapons like our issued M4s did not have adequate space to accept the quadrant sight for the grenade launcher. Though most everyone just uses the leaf sight.

I had not even considered that I had been sent the wrong launchers/quadrant sights. and that there was a very slight difference between the height of a fixed handle weapon and a detachable one until the SEAL armorer showed me. Once he showed me what was up, and how to relieve some metal on the sight, as well as the launcher, it was all good. The grenade launchers for M4s are actually a bit different. Many may not know it, but M203s come in different tube lengths like 9 and 12"s. Prior to that I was pulling my hair out trying to make something fit that never was going to, and wondering what I was doing wrong. I had no manuals, so I was flying blind. It was a learning experience for sure. :cool:

[Cheap Shot]

Stupid questions, I've got a chance to get a 6920 for appx $1,000.00.

It looks like because the front sight is attached to the barrel I believe that means its not a "free floating barrel". How important is it to have a free floating barrel in terms of accuracy?

Can the fixed front sight be changed to a mlok or keylock hand guard easily? I'd want to add a flashlight and hand stop.

In the spirit of mission drives the gear my long term motivation is:

See what all the cool kids are doing and why?

Learn as much as I can, as economically as I can about AR-15's

Evolve into other configurations:

Could I easier switch the 16 556 to upper with a 7 - 10.3" 300 BO? I guess I'm wonder if anything in the lower receiver would be incompatible or need to be changed if I switch to 300 BO?

Eventually add a suppressor on a barrel maybe 7 - 12.5 inches

Would I be better off just getting an SBR then add a suppressor. I realize the legal requirements to do that but I'm assuming nothing will change (I naturally obvious and naive so take it for what its worth).

I'm so confused

[tango-papa]

It had to do with modifying the quadrant sights to fit detachable carry handle weapons, as well as modifying the launchers themselves, as a standard M203 launcher designed for the M16 won't bolt up to an M4A1.

Fixed carry handle weapons (like an A2) have more distance height wise between the receiver and the top of the carry handle. That is one of the reasons why an A2 has a effective range of 800 meters, and an M4 has an effective range of 600 meters (95% of the AR world does not know that) . Detachable carry handle weapons like our issued M4s did not have adequate space to accept the quadrant sight for the grenade launcher. Though most everyone just uses the leaf sight.

I had not even considered that I had been sent the wrong launchers/quadrant sights. and that there was a very slight difference between the height of a fixed handle weapon and a detachable one until the SEAL armorer showed me. Once he showed me what was up, and how to relieve some metal on the sight, as well as the launcher, it was all good. The grenade launchers for M4s are actually a bit different. Many may not know it, but M203s come in different tube lengths like 9 and 12"s. Prior to that I was pulling my hair out trying to make something fit that never was going to, and wondering what I was doing wrong. I had no manuals, so I was flying blind. It was a learning experience for sure. :cool:

Did you ever get the opportunity to have a one-on-one with the Ass Klown who sent A2's for the M4's?

[JRB]

Did you ever get the opportunity to have a one-on-one with the Ass Klown who sent A2's for the M4's?

It was probably some overworked/under-caring PBO or sad-sack 92Y that only had the one NSN or LIN for M203's when some CPT said "order some M203's", and had no idea there were any different ones.

[Beat Trash]

Stupid questions, I've got a chance to get a 6920 for appx $1,000.00.

It looks like because the front sight is attached to the barrel I believe that means its not a "free floating barrel". How important is it to have a free floating barrel in terms of accuracy?

Can the fixed front sight be changed to a mlok or keylock hand guard easily? I'd want to add a flashlight and hand stop.

In the spirit of mission drives the gear my long term motivation is:

See what all the cool kids are doing and why?

Learn as much as I can, as economically as I can about AR-15's

Evolve into other configurations:

Could I easier switch the 16 556 to upper with a 7 - 10.3" 300 BO? I guess I'm wonder if anything in the lower receiver would be incompatible or need to be changed if I switch to 300 BO?

Eventually add a suppressor on a barrel maybe 7 - 12.5 inches

Would I be better off just getting an SBR then add a suppressor. I realize the legal requirements to do that but I'm assuming nothing will change (I naturally obvious and naive so take it for what its worth).

I'm so confused

A lot of questions. The fixed sight 6920 is not free floated. Yes that can effect accuracy, depending on your definition of “accuracy”. But it’s still more than accurate enough for most people’s needs.

As for adding lights and a handstop, the cheapest way to do that is to buy a MagPul MOE SL handguard. You can install them yourself without tools. You can easily add a light and VFG or handstop if you wish. Go to MagPul’s web site and browse around. You’ll find what you need to accomplish adding the light.

Get a gun like a Colt 6920. Outfit it with MagPul MOE handguard if you’d like. Add a light and maybe a red dot sight. Get some extra magazines and som ammunition. Then deal out competent professional training.

Learn how to effectively run the Colt 6920. Then after you’ve got some training and experience, you’ll find most of the other questions you were wondering about reference short barreled uppers, different calibers and suppressors, and are they best suited for your needs, will most likely have answered themselves for you.

[Caballoflaco]

A lot of questions. The fixed sight 6920 is not free floated. Yes that can effect accuracy, depending on your definition of “accuracy”. But it’s still more than accurate enough for most people’s needs..

76385 This is a Colt 11.5” barrel upper, non-free floated, with an aimpoint shooting steel cased rooskie ammo and holding high on the berm at 500 yards (100 yard zero). I fired 10 or twelve rounds total, with a buddy spotting for me and no good reference on the berm. I was extremely happy with this group. Earlier in the day hits at 200 and 300 yards on a 8” plates were far easier.

As long as you don’t torque the shit out of the barrel non-floated is plenty accurate. Free float definitely gives you more options when you’re using different rests/slings and shooting from unconventional positions. I’ll upgrade one day, but non-floated will honestly do everything I need it to do for now, so I’m not in a hurry.

[MandoWookie]

Stupid questions, I've got a chance to get a 6920 for appx $1,000.00.

It looks like because the front sight is attached to the barrel I believe that means its not a "free floating barrel". How important is it to have a free floating barrel in terms of accuracy?

Free float handguards can be very important for accuracy, but practically speaking it doesn't matter at all that much. Watch 9 Hole Reviews on YouTube to see what someone with good skills can do with a basic M4.
Can the fixed front sight be changed to a mlok or keylock hand guard easily? I'd want to add a flashlight and hand stop.

No the front sight base cannot be easily removed, but you can get drop-in handguards that let you attach a light and hand stop easily. Or you can get light mounts that work with the standard handguards from Impact Weapons Components, and probably something for a hand stop too.
In the spirit of mission drives the gear my long term motivation is:

See what all the cool kids are doing and why?
Define cool kids? And is what they are doing applicable to you? Competition, LE, military, Instagram bragging rights?

Learn as much as I can, as economically as I can about AR-15's

Buy the Colt, it will save you from having to learn about improper assembly and poor small parts QA that cheaper AR can have, and then buy ammo and a range membership. Learn basic maintenance. Take something like an Appleseed course for basic marksmanship. Don't go out and try to 'upgrade' things out immediately, because they probably won't.

Evolve into other configurations:
Why are worrying about changing configurations before you have even decided on the base?

Could I easier switch the 16 556 to upper with a 7 - 10.3" 300 BO? I guess I'm wonder if anything in the lower receiver would be incompatible or need to be changed if I switch to 300 BO?

For .300 Blackout nothing should need to be changed in the lower, except if you are sticking a 7-10" upper on it it better be a registered SBR before you do. $ 200, do not pass go.

Eventually add a suppressor on a barrel maybe 7 - 12.5 inches

Another $200.

Would I be better off just getting an SBR then add a suppressor. I realize the legal requirements to do that but I'm assuming nothing will change (I naturally obvious and naive so take it for what its worth).

As someone who is considering doing this, I would say yes, dedicated SBR is the way, if that is your goal.
I'm so confused

As someone who followed the advice of "Just buy a 6920 and an Aimpoint Pro, and go shoot it" , that is also my recommendation. Don't fiddle with it, don't try to keep up with the 'cool kids', use that mental bandwidth and cash saved to build your skills and possibly get formal instruction, and figure out what you actually want it to do.

My 6920 currently no longer has the Aimpoint, because between my astigmatism and nearsightedness I couldn't hold groups beyond 50 yds that were acceptable to me. So its got a Leupold fx-ii 1.5x. Just enough magnification, but light and still good for up close. I may decide later that I need more scope than that later, but for now it works.

I still haven't reached the point where the rifle is what is impeding my accuracy, so I just switched out the old furniture for Magpul SL handguards and a Magpul fixed carbine stock. I can attach anything I need with little hassle with that.

[MistWolf]

Stupid questions, I've got a chance to get a 6920 for appx $1,000.00.
Grab it.


It looks like because the front sight is attached to the barrel I believe that means its not a "free floating barrel". How important is it to have a free floating barrel in terms of accuracy?
The handguard, not the front sight determines if it's free float or not.

My experience is, if you're just going to use blaster ammo, you won't see much improvement in precision using free float handguards.


See what all the cool kids are doing and why?
Be your own cool kid. It's fun to see what others are doing, but they're doing what works for them, or are too busy trying to be "The Cool Kid" to figure out maybe what they have isn't working well.

Colt 6920 with Slimline hand guard & stock. Gunfighter grip. Aimpoint Micro. Mossie Midnight light mount. Surefire light. Blue Force padded sling.https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-KVF2r4M/0/dfff8ce3/4K/i-KVF2r4M-4K.jpg
As simple as it gets and it works.


Could I easier switch the 16 556 to upper with a 7 - 10.3" 300 BO?
Yes. First, you'll need to register your lower as a Short Barrelled Rifle and get the tax stamp.


Would I be better off just getting an SBR then add a suppressor...?
You could start with an SBR and suppressor but this route requires a higher level of technical expertise to make sure it's right.

It's much easier to start with a 6920, then build or buy a AR pistol (or Colt 6933). That way, you'll have an AR to shoot while tinkering with your suppressed SBR.

Colt 6933
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-dWJHWFJ/0/1ae913e2/L/i-dWJHWFJ-L.jpg

[That Guy]

How important is it to have a free floating barrel in terms of accuracy?


My 6920 has a Magpul Moe SL handguard and a Midwest Industries sight block mount where I've mounted a flashlight. The trigger is stock. With a 5x scope my best five round groups, fired from prone at 100 meters, are 4cm (about 1.3 MOA) with GGG 55gr FMJ, and 3cm (about 1MOA) with PPU 75gr HPBT. Now, these aren't on demand groups so one could argue I'm cherry picking my results, but I still think that says something about the accuracy of the rifle. (In my defense, squeezing as tiny groups as possible from a gun with a milspec trigger ain't that easy, and I refuse to blame the gun for when the loose nut behind the stock messes up.) And since the stock is a synthetic material you don't have the issues traditional wood stocks have, where they might swell up with moisture and press on the barrel unless you free float them. Where you can run into issues are things like trying to use a sling for support or shooting from a rest, since pressure you put on your handguard will affect your barrel.

I do dream about one day getting a free floated handguard and a Geissele trigger (and a better scope and...) for my rifle. But until that day, I can manage just fine the way it is. I imagine you could too.

[Elwin]

I’d jump on that without hesitation for a first AR. Like others said, it doesn’t need much. Add what’s been suggested to start, and as you learn with it and figure it what works for you (based on actual use, not what other people do) you can make subtle adjustments. But a 6920 with an Aimpoint and a light is absolutely going to get the job done if the job is basic self defense applications. And it can turn into whatever else it might need to be if the application ends up being different than that.

I’ll highlight what someone else said because it’s extremely important. You CAN NOT add an upper with a sub-16” barrel to the lower from a 6920 or other rifle without first getting an SBR tax stamp. Doing so is creating an illegal SBR, which a federal felony. You may know that as well as anyone but since you seem somewhat new I wanted to clarify that point because the consequences are huge. No disrespect intended.

[Lost River]

Did you ever get the opportunity to have a one-on-one with the Ass Klown who sent A2's for the M4's?


It was probably some overworked/under-caring PBO or sad-sack 92Y that only had the one NSN or LIN for M203's when some CPT said "order some M203's", and had no idea there were any different ones.

So these were were not .mil guns. This was at an embassy. Truth be told, even though they were the wrong ones. I/we were grateful to get them. It was a very small compound and it was a location that was very active.

This is from an exploded ordinance sweep:

https://i.imgur.com/N2HETKQ.jpg?2

We used to get air mail delivered right to our living quarters frequently:

https://i.imgur.com/YRpME5b.jpg?1

[tango-papa]

So these were were not .mil guns. This was at an embassy. Truth be told, even though they were the wrong ones. I/we were grateful to get them. It was a very small compound and it was a location that was very active.

This is from an exploded ordinance sweep:


We used to get air mail delivered right to our living quarters frequently:



Yeah, no doubt getting them was a good thing. I recall your previous posts about the activity level in your AO.

But somebody still needed their head-space & timing adjusted - just sayin.

[Lost River]

Back on the topic of M4s.

I was looking through some pics and found this pic of an oddball gun I had located while at another small REO.



https://i.imgur.com/Gar6zce.jpg?1



The backstory was that I had flown into Bdad (initially) and was supposed to be working as a DDM (Designated Defensive Marksman) somewhere. However as soon as I got off the plane and was in line to draw my gear, this lady comes up and asks for me, and states that the country wide PM (project manager, who is the big boss) would like to see me. I was a little at a loss, and asked who the PM was, and apparently while I was home on break, the PM I had been working for, for the last few years had been promoted to PM of all of Iraq.

Anyways, I go see the boss and he asks how the family is, makes small talk, asked if I would like a cocktail. The whole time I am thinking "WTF is this about?". Then he fills me in. Our outfit had just taken over a regional embassy from a company that was fired. We had been tasked with getting 100% accountability, and shutting it down. They wanted me to fly down and oversee getting accountability of the armory, and everything that that entails. He knew that this DDM gig I was on was a bit of a vacation for me compared to what I had been doing, but they needed this done and done right.

While mildly disappointed that I am not going to be having a pretty easy gig for the rotation I am on, there is no way I would ever say no, especially considering both the circumstances and the man I am talking to. There are "reasons". The outfit at that time was extremely small. They had tons of people trying to get in, but were very selective and I felt extremely lucky to be part of it. Plus they had given me opportunity after opportunity, sending me to school after school, training me. Additionally the gentleman who was the PM was someone who I (and everyone I knew) respected greatly. He came from the military's premier unit and was everything a leader should be. He was quiet, smart and you knew that he knew what he was doing. So when he asked for something, it never crossed my mind to do anything but get it done for him.

Little did I know what a disaster I was walking into. I ended up signing for all the weapons before I ever even got to the embassy (:rolleyes:). When I got there, I opened the doors of the "armory" to find no real "books", pretty much non existent paperwork, and absolutely ZERO accountability of weapons. Belt feds, sniper rifles, M4s, etc, scattered into the wind. Weapons literally missing. Nobody had any idea who had what and the previous occupants were a total shit show of totally irresponsible conduct (they are a whole other topic).

I don't remember the exact numbers but if I recall, my initial count was 20 something guns were missing. Ones I had signed (and was now responsible) for. It was a complete disaster. I was getting physically ill with stress.

In a previous place we had been under indirect fire on a regular basis, and it was ugly, but the time I spent trying to track down and get accountability of all those weapons and paperwork was probably the single most stressful rotation I ever did overseas.

There is more to that story, but back to the picture above.


The M4/M16A2E.

That is a very freaking rare bird. It had been floating around the middle east and probably Africa for who knows how long. It was part of a good number of guns I discovered that were not even on record. Long story short, the one above is a very rare transitional model. It was made way back when Colt was in the process of creating the M4. I don't know how many were made, but it was only a couple of months that Colt made that model.

Here is an M4/M16A2E that just went for $54,000 this year.

https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/_N__NEW_IN_BOX_COLT_M4_M16A2E_MACHINE_GUN_WITH_ACC-LOT502483.aspx

This one is for sale for $75K

http://chestercountyarmory.com/products/?prodID=248

[Ed L]

The M4/M16A2E.

That is a very freaking rare bird. It had been floating around the middle east and probably Africa for who knows how long. It was part of a good number of guns I discovered that were not even on record. Long story short, the one above is a very rare transitional model. It was made way back when Colt was in the process of creating the M4. I don't know how many were made, but it was only a couple of months that Colt made that model.

Here is an M4/M16A2E that just went for $54,000 this year.

https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/_N__NEW_IN_BOX_COLT_M4_M16A2E_MACHINE_GUN_WITH_ACC-LOT502483.aspx

This one is for sale for $75K

http://chestercountyarmory.com/products/?prodID=248

I would think that the model would be post 1986 and therefore non-transferable to regular folks.

[Lost River]

The adverts say fully transferable. Since I don't keep up with the civilian machine gun world, I would not be a very good source for such things. For the amount of $$ it costs for a basic class 3 AR, I would most definitely rather do as Oregon .45 did and buy some nice old S&W revolvers, and a levergun or two like Malamutes. The black gun scene is about as exciting for me as owning a wrench.

I keep a couple around, appreciate their practical nature and certainly like a super accurate one for hunting, but in general when I see yet another AR I think (Quoting the great Clark Griswold) "Hey look kids, there's Big Ben, and there's Parliament... again.” :cool:

[Trooper224]

I'm with Lost River. To me an AR is about as exciting as plain yogurt. They're great tools but, like Glock is to handguns, they're the Bic lighter of rifles. One of the few things my youngest son got out of his now defunct marriage is a Daniel Defense AR. I'll admit, it's a very nice rifle. However, I can't see it doing anything the 6920 I was issued for the last half of my career couldn't.

[ST911]

I have 6x CR6920s, <2500rds each but at least 1500. They got cleaned in May for what I believe is the first time. They have the characteristics CB describes in his video. Function is indiscernible from other LE6920s. If I was looking for an M4-type configuration they're fine and I'd buy more. I'm mostly done with that configuration though, buying long FF handguards and better barrels.

[Wonder9]

The main problem with the 6920 is that it is not the 6720.

[Navin Johnson]

The great thing about vanilla puddin boring nothing exciting 6920's is that we have vanilla puddin boring nothing exciting 6920's.

[texasaggie2005]

The main problem with the 6920 is that it is not the 6720.

Man, do I ever regret getting rid of my 6720. Every time I see a 6720 referenced, I kick myself all over again.

[rob_s]

The main problem with the 6920 is that it is not the 6720.


Man, do I ever regret getting rid of my 6720. Every time I see a 6720 referenced, I kick myself all over again.

I'm still rocking one of the two 6720s I bought... damn near 15-20 years ago now? Fresh out of the ban, and they weren't selling them as flattops yet, so I had to source an M4 flattop upper to swap it out. it still wears the same Daniel Defense M4 handguard it did from the beginning, but the original ACOG I had on it has been swapped for a TA33... wait, shit, maybe this is the original optic...

only thing better than a 6720 is a 6933.

[Greg Bell]

My current gun started as a 6720 but I shot the barrel out with steel, .22 conversion, and general abuse. I swapped it for a Colt Socom barrel a few years back. I really miss my 6720. I have a buddy who has a new one he got on my recommendation but has never shot it (or even put an optic on it). I keep praying he will have some money trouble. LOL

[ST911]

I'm still rocking one of the two 6720s I bought... damn near 15-20 years ago now? Fresh out of the ban, and they weren't selling them as flattops yet, so I had to source an M4 flattop upper to swap it out.

Yep. I've swapped a bunch of 6520s over to flat top receivers, mostly using the BCM cosmetic blems here: https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-upper-receiver-m4-flat-top-m4-feedramps-complete-unassembled-demo-scratched/. These have been as cheap as ~$60 at times.

I have low serial factory 6720s, very handy.

[David S.]

I'm sure all the others are more correcter, but I much prefer the modern full length handguard over the old school handguards. They seem more conducive to mounting lights and slings, and I suppose I prefer the aesthetics.

If I had my heart set on Colt, I'd give a hard look at something like the 6960 (https://palmettostatearmory.com/colt-m4-carbine-5-56-nato-rifle-midlength-16-1-30rd-16-1-cr6960.html).

ETA: FWIW, Sportsman's Warehouse currently has the Colt Enhanced Patrol Rifle for $1299. deals.guns has several sellers I don't recognize carrying it for a bit less.

[ST911]

I'm sure all the others are more correcter, but I much prefer the modern full length handguard over the old school handguards. They seem more conducive to mounting lights and slings, and I suppose I prefer the aesthetics.

And they're a better overall fit for we knuckle-draggers.


If I had my heart set on Colt, I'd give a hard look at something like the 6960 (https://palmettostatearmory.com/colt-m4-carbine-5-56-nato-rifle-midlength-16-1-30rd-16-1-cr6960.html).

Yes, very GTG. But darn you for posting that link.

[TGS]

If I had my heart set on Colt, I'd give a hard look at something like the 6960 (https://palmettostatearmory.com/colt-m4-carbine-5-56-nato-rifle-midlength-16-1-30rd-16-1-cr6960.html).

Ditto.

I can't imagine spending my own money on a 6920 in 2021. They're a bit archaic compared to the other options out there at this point.

[Guerrero]

If I had my heart set on Colt, I'd give a hard look at something like the 6960 (https://palmettostatearmory.com/colt-m4-carbine-5-56-nato-rifle-midlength-16-1-30rd-16-1-cr6960.html).

At that price, though, you might as well look at a BCM RECCE-16, too.

[ST911]

At that price, though, you might as well look at a BCM RECCE-16, too.

Where available, also an excellent choice.

[rob_s]

Yep. I've swapped a bunch of 6520s over to flat top receivers, mostly using the BCM cosmetic blems here: https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-upper-receiver-m4-flat-top-m4-feedramps-complete-unassembled-demo-scratched/. These have been as cheap as ~$60 at times.

I have low serial factory 6720s, very handy.

Thank you for the subtle correction. ;)

You are correct, of course, in that my gun isn’t even a 6720, it’s a 6520!

[ST911]

Thank you for the subtle correction. ;)

You are correct, of course, in that my gun isn’t even a 6720, it’s a 6520!

Well, it mostly is now. Mostly.

[rob_s]

I’d be ok with a new CR6920.

But another option to consider, Colt has quietly been shipping new CR6960’s, which sell for around $1,050 - $1,100.

Basically a 16” mid-length barrel with a 13” Centurion Arms M-Lok rail.


they seem to be commanding a premium, at the moment?

https://gun.deals/search/apachesolr_search/098289023506

76224


In stock CR6960’s are at a premium. But I feel the dust has yet to settle in the current market. If Colt starts shipping more of these, as well as CR6920’s, then we might see prices stabilize somewhat.

I’m currently good with AR’s. But if I were in the market for a new AR and the 6960’s got back down to the $1,050, it would be a strong contender for me.

I am very curious, and slightly hopeful that Colt will start coming out with more options due to its new CZ ownership.

We shall see…


That gun, at that price, would be my "new AR" buy as well.


It certainly looks like it. I looked the websites of 3 local places and they were all in the $1100-1300 range for CR6920s. I don’t need another AR but I’m tempted to snag one of these and turn one of my cheap ass frugal builds into a dedicated .22 LR rig.


The 6960 EPR is a midlength. In case you need some enabling.


I'm sure all the others are more correcter, but I much prefer the modern full length handguard over the old school handguards. They seem more conducive to mounting lights and slings, and I suppose I prefer the aesthetics.

If I had my heart set on Colt, I'd give a hard look at something like the 6960 (https://palmettostatearmory.com/colt-m4-carbine-5-56-nato-rifle-midlength-16-1-30rd-16-1-cr6960.html).

ETA: FWIW, Sportsman's Warehouse currently has the Colt Enhanced Patrol Rifle for $1299. deals.guns has several sellers I don't recognize carrying it for a bit less.


And they're a better overall fit for we knuckle-draggers.



Yes, very GTG. But darn you for posting that link.


Ditto.

I can't imagine spending my own money on a 6920 in 2021. They're a bit archaic compared to the other options out there at this point.


At that price, though, you might as well look at a BCM RECCE-16, too.


Being horrible out of date, y'all clear this up for me, the EPR is model number 6920-EPR (https://www.colt.com/detail-page/enh-patrol-rif-556mm-16-301) and if effectively a 6960 with a carbine-length gas system and some minor stock/grip changes? I can't even find the 6960 on the Colt website. I guess there's some debate about various versions of the Centurion handguard that each may ship with. Then there's an LE6920-ER (https://www.colt.com/detail-page/trooper-m4-carb-556mm-16) "Trooper" carbine that adds to the confusion...

In any of these cases, not knowing what I don't know, I'd be a player for any of those models at $1k for sure. As the price creeps to $1300, I'd have to consider the 6920 if it's really available at $800-900 (or the LE6920-OEM2 (https://www.colt.com/detail-page/colt-le6920-oem1-556-161-lpgb-blk), which seems to be unobtanium now, if it was $700-800).

As the various factory free-floated options get to $1300+, I might start to look at other known-good, long-lived, manufacturers like BCM. Actually, I can't think of a second that I'd consider... Maybe Daniel Defense?

[19852+]

I have one of those BCM "blemished uppers and it is excellent if one doesn't mind a scratch or two [I don't].

[jh9]

Being horrible out of date, y'all clear this up for me, the EPR is model number 6920-EPR (https://www.colt.com/detail-page/enh-patrol-rif-556mm-16-301) and if effectively a 6960 with a carbine-length gas system and some minor stock/grip changes?

The 6960 has a lightweight barrel profile in addition to the mid gas. I think the EPR in the link uses the standard 6920 barrel which is the heavier government(?) profile. Difference in barrel diameter behind the a2 flash hider are visible from the pic on Colt's website and here: https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/upper-receivers/ar-15-le6960-ccu-upper-receiver-5-56-m-lok-prod120469.aspx

[rob_s]

The 6960 has a lightweight barrel profile in addition to the mid gas. I think the EPR in the link uses the standard 6920 barrel which is the heavier government(?) profile. Difference in barrel diameter behind the a2 flash hider are visible from the pic on Colt's website and here: https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/upper-receivers/ar-15-le6960-ccu-upper-receiver-5-56-m-lok-prod120469.aspx

need a goddamn chart just to figure out Colt these days... :p

[David S.]

In any of these cases, not knowing what I don't know, I'd be a player for any of those models at $1k for sure. As the price creeps to $1300, I'd have to consider the 6920 if it's really available at $800-900 (or the LE6920-OEM2 (https://www.colt.com/detail-page/colt-le6920-oem1-556-161-lpgb-blk), which seems to be unobtanium now, if it was $700-800).

Based on a whopping 2 minute search:

It appears the 6920 is currently going for $1000 - $1200. Lowest I saw was $979 (https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/254378).

A similarly equipped BCM's seem to be going for $1400 (https://www.omahaoutdoors.com/bravo-company/rifles/) here, so same price point as the long railed Colts.

[Wondering Beard]

need a goddamn chart just to figure out Colt these days... :p

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/068/362/702.jpg

[Beat Trash]

Being horrible out of date, y'all clear this up for me, the EPR is model number 6920-EPR (https://www.colt.com/detail-page/enh-patrol-rif-556mm-16-301) and if effectively a 6960 with a carbine-length gas system and some minor stock/grip changes? I can't even find the 6960 on the Colt website. I guess there's some debate about various versions of the Centurion handguard that each may ship with. Then there's an LE6920-ER (https://www.colt.com/detail-page/trooper-m4-carb-556mm-16) "Trooper" carbine that adds to the confusion...

In any of these cases, not knowing what I don't know, I'd be a player for any of those models at $1k for sure. As the price creeps to $1300, I'd have to consider the 6920 if it's really available at $800-900 (or the LE6920-OEM2 (https://www.colt.com/detail-page/colt-le6920-oem1-556-161-lpgb-blk), which seems to be unobtanium now, if it was $700-800).

As the various factory free-floated options get to $1300+, I might start to look at other known-good, long-lived, manufacturers like BCM. Actually, I can't think of a second that I'd consider... Maybe Daniel Defense?

The "LE" prefex guns for the most part are history.

The LE6920 Trooper is still on the web site, but is not being made currently. It came with a non-commercially available 13" Centurion Arms M-Lok rail that lacked some of features of the commercially available rail. Namely it had no QD attachments built into the rail. The 6920 Trooper was basically a Colt 6920 OEM2 that Colt stuck a 13" M-Lok rail on.

The LE6960 CCU was made with an ambi lower, MagPul furniture and a commercially available Centurion Arms M-lok 13" rail that included QD mounts.

I bought a 6920 Trooper a few years ago as a spare rifle. I really didn't need another spare rifle at the time. But the market was soft at the time and the compete gun cost me $689.99. I forced myself to buy one due to the price. Looking back, my only regret was not buying a few. My 6920 Trooper is marked as a CR6920 and not a LE6920. The circle portion of the roll mark for the Colt logo is slightly missing a small portion of the circle. At the time, the internet was loosing their minds over this issue with the stamping of the logo on the CR6920 marked lowers.

I'll share a little secret... The issue with the roll mark had absolutely zero effect on the performance of the gun!

Colt has quietly started shipping a remake of the 6960 CCU. It's sold as the CR6960. They cut costs by not including MagPul furniture and by using the cheaper 13" M-lok rail that was included on the 6920 Trooper. Some online sources were selling them for a bit under $1,100. At that price, I feel the CR6960 is a great option. At $1,300 and up, I get less excited about it.

I feel that Colt never pushed the marketing on the 6960 guns as much as they should have in the past. IF the new CR6960's start showing up in enough volume where the are retailing at the $1,075 - 1,100 range, they will be my recommendation to those who come to me wanting a recommendation for a rifle.

I own a few Colt 6920's. I have a pair of older LE6920's with the restricted markings stashed in the back of the safe. I have a pair that are LE6920's but marked "M4" on the lower. These are newer than the restricted marked guns. I even own a LE6920 that says, "Made in Canada", as it's manufactured by Colt Canada. All of my Colt 6920 lowers, including the newer CR6920 Trooper lower, perform exactly the same. All of the fixed sight 6920's perform about the same.

I personally feel that the 6920 with it's fixed front sight is a bit dated. The low profile gas block permits free floated rails and it also permits rails longer than 7" which provides so many options in user interface with the guns as well as adding accessories such as lights. For the type of shooter that spends more than 10 minutes a week on a gun form, this is important. But many people who buy an AR are people for whom guns are not a hobby or a passion, but they just want a solid AR available for home defense. They want a gun to protect what is important to them. For those individuals, I still think a CR6920 with a light, a sling and a RDS will do all that they need an AR to do. Especially the 6920 that is equipped with the Magul MOE SL furniture.

[HCM]

Being horrible out of date, y'all clear this up for me, the EPR is model number 6920-EPR (https://www.colt.com/detail-page/enh-patrol-rif-556mm-16-301) and if effectively a 6960 with a carbine-length gas system and some minor stock/grip changes? I can't even find the 6960 on the Colt website. I guess there's some debate about various versions of the Centurion handguard that each may ship with. Then there's an LE6920-ER (https://www.colt.com/detail-page/trooper-m4-carb-556mm-16) "Trooper" carbine that adds to the confusion...

In any of these cases, not knowing what I don't know, I'd be a player for any of those models at $1k for sure. As the price creeps to $1300, I'd have to consider the 6920 if it's really available at $800-900 (or the LE6920-OEM2 (https://www.colt.com/detail-page/colt-le6920-oem1-556-161-lpgb-blk), which seems to be unobtanium now, if it was $700-800).

As the various factory free-floated options get to $1300+, I might start to look at other known-good, long-lived, manufacturers like BCM. Actually, I can't think of a second that I'd consider... Maybe Daniel Defense?

The 6920 /6960 EPR’s are the same gun with the standard Centurion Mlok rail other than one is carbine length gas and the other has a mid length gas system. There is also a 6933 EPR.

The trooper is a 6920 with a cheaper, simpler Centurion hand guard which lacks built in QD attachments. My understanding is the Trooper was Colts entry into either/both the new carbine solicitations for both the TX DPS Highway Patrol and the Michigan State Police though TX wound up buying DD and MI bought FN.

The standard 6920 is currently in the $900-$1000 range. The $849 price I linked was a particularly good deal. Haven’t seen new “CR” series OEM models since Colt’s last pause in selling AR’s.

US CBP, including the USBP have been rebuilding their Colt M4/M4A1s using complete BCM uppers for a few years now. Currently 11.5” uppers with BCM MLOK rails.

[Elwin]

I personally feel that the 6920 with it's fixed front sight is a bit dated. The low profile gas block permits free floated rails and it also permits rails longer than 7" which provides so many options in user interface with the guns as well as adding accessories such as lights. For the type of shooter that spends more than 10 minutes a week on a gun form, this is important. But many people who buy an AR are people for whom guns are not a hobby or a passion, but they just want a solid AR available for home defense. They want a gun to protect what is important to them. For those individuals, I still think a CR6920 with a light, a sling and a RDS will do all that they need an AR to do. Especially the 6920 that is equipped with the Magul MOE SL furniture.

This is absolutely me. I recognize all the advantages a free float has. But a traditional Magpul handguard, whether mid or carbine, gives me what I need to add both a sling and a light mount that works well for me ergonomically when combined with a vertical grip (IWC mounts and BCM VGs are perfect for my hands). Add a dot and a fixed BUIS because I feel like it, and for me, I’ve got something so suited to my needs it’s not worth the extra cash to upgrade.

I may feel differently if I didn’t actually kindof like the ergonomics. The vertical grip is a game changer for me with this setup. Before I discovered that, very much by accident handling someone else’s budget build, I was much more intent on getting free floated handguards.

[TWR]

6720's for me, I like light weight guns and got tired of short hand guards, cut the FSB and installed longer free float rails. Figured even though a stock 6720 or even 6920 will do what I need it to, I didn't have to settle. Got 3 guns set up very similar and I'm done.

I haven't seen a current Colt in a few years but I'm interested in how CZ will move forward.

[kwb377]

The standard 6920 is currently in the $900-$1000 range. The $849 price I linked was a particularly good deal. Haven’t seen new “CR” series OEM models since Colt’s last pause in selling AR’s.




For anyone looking...

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/909216168

The seller is a store local to me, solid folks. The CR6920 they had listed a week or two ago ended at @ $865.

[Phaedrus]

I personally feel that the 6920 with it's fixed front sight is a bit dated. The low profile gas block permits free floated rails and it also permits rails longer than 7" which provides so many options in user interface with the guns as well as adding accessories such as lights. For the type of shooter that spends more than 10 minutes a week on a gun form, this is important. But many people who buy an AR are people for whom guns are not a hobby or a passion, but they just want a solid AR available for home defense. They want a gun to protect what is important to them. For those individuals, I still think a CR6920 with a light, a sling and a RDS will do all that they need an AR to do. Especially the 6920 that is equipped with the Magul MOE SL furniture.

I certainly can't disagree with you, but you could edit out "6920" and substitute about 50 other carbines from S&W to PSA and be equally correct. For the average guy who'll put a couple mags through then lean it up in the corner an M&P15 will probably do the job for a few hundred less.

[M2CattleCo]

I wish Colt still made publicly available the OEM-2 uppers.

KISS:

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-9p5b9dm/0/X2/i-9p5b9dm-X2.jpg

[HCM]

I wish Colt still made publicly available the OEM-2 uppers.

KISS:

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-9p5b9dm/0/X2/i-9p5b9dm-X2.jpg

When you see Colt selling uppers and lowers etc that will be a sign sales have tanked and they are likely to pause AR sales until the next panic buy drives up prices.

[Lex Luthier]

When you see Colt selling uppers and lowers etc that will be a sign sales have tanked and they are likely to pause AR sales until the next panic buy drives up prices.

This makes perfect sense to me. I would be curious to hear from retailers as to whether they know of any upper kits or OEM-dash units in the pipeline. For now, Colt still has the 6920 OEM carbines listed on the US web site.

(I am not the least bit sad to have obtained a Colt upper conversion, even if it was less plug-and-play than described. Quite happy with the performance so far. )

[MistWolf]

I certainly can't disagree with you, but you could edit out "6920" and substitute about 50 other carbines from S&W to PSA and be equally correct.
Not in my experience.

[HCM]

Not in my experience.

Nor mine.

Even within "S&W" there is considerable variance between actual M&P rifles and the Sport II models.

"PSA" also covers a broad range of quality from good as a 6920 to dog shit.

At this point it's like saying "a 1911 is"

A 6920 is like a SA TRP 1911. The minimum for a serious use.

A RIA may be good enough for plenty of people who will only take it to the range once a year for a box or two of FMJ, but it doesn't make it the equal of a TRP or a > quality 1911.

[JclInAtx]

I wish Colt still made publicly available the OEM-2

GT Distributors has them in stock https://www.gtdist.com/products/guns-firearms/rifles/colt-ar-15-oem2-platform-carbine-low-profile-gas-block.html