Winchester SXP Defender

[Lon]

My boss at the local Police Academy wants to buy some new shotguns and obviously 870s are not being made. Anyone familiar with the SXP Defender? I played w one at a Gun shop this morning and it looks like an updated version of the old 1200/1300. Anyone have one?

[BobM]

Some years ago I repaired a 1200/1300 for someone and my recollection was that it didn’t seem very robust internally. It’s been a long time so I don’t remember the details.

Have you talked to anyone from any vendors that might have any idea how long before 870s become available again?

[JWintergreen]

I would like to hear more reports about these as well. It would be nice if there was a way for them to offer a version with a full length mag tube. Perhaps they could have the mag tube assembly installed after importing the shotguns?

Then again, I wish we could see an 8 shot Miroku produced 1300 Defender and Model 12/97 riot gun reproductions. Stupid import restrictions.

[kwb377]

My understanding is that the SXP is Turkish manufactured and Winchester branded?

While there's always the venerable 500/590, I've become enamored with the Benelli in the last few months. I bought a Nova several months ago, then a SuperNova not long after. I've only put a coupe hundred shells through both combined, but I really like them. Stripping them down for cleaning, they seem much better built than my Mossberg, for not much $$ more.

[ibnaqil]

https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/new-remington-870s-shipping-to-dealers/

[Wonder9]

Run away from Turkish shotguns.

Stick to American or Italian made scatterguns. Even Chinese 870 clones and the MexiMerican Maverick 88 would be better for a fleet of training shotguns.

[MandoWookie]

https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/new-remington-870s-shipping-to-dealers/

Good to see that. Hopefully soon we will be seeing parts show back up. I need a 20 in 20 ga barrel with the interchangeable chokes to upgrade my dads old 870.

[Duces Tecum]

My boss at the local Police Academy wants to buy some new shotguns and obviously 870s are not being made.

Curious why the Beretta 1301 is off the table.

[Lon]

State curriculum only does pump action shotguns. There aren’t many agencies in OH using semi-auto shotguns. I have a feeling they’ll disappear entirely from the basic academy within the next 5-10 years and be replaced by rifles.

[Duces Tecum]

State curriculum only does pump action shotguns. There aren’t many agencies in OH using semi-auto shotguns. I have a feeling they’ll disappear entirely from the basic academy within the next 5-10 years and be replaced by rifles.

Thank you, Lon. I understand now.

[Lon]

Thank you, Lon. I understand now.

It’s unfortunate, really. I’d run a 1301T as a patrol long gun all the time if I could. One of my SWAT guys is buying a LTT 1301 and I’m gonna see if I can get him permission to run it on SWAT. If the Chief goes for it I may get one myself.

[GearFondler]

If the Chief goes for it I may get one myself.

You should get yourself one anyway, even if it's not for work... It's that good.

[Lon]

You should get yourself one anyway, even if it's not for work... It's that good.

It’s on my wish list. Maybe I should sell off the last of my 5.45 ammo to fund it.

[Chuck Whitlock]

State curriculum only does pump action shotguns. There aren’t many agencies in OH using semi-auto shotguns. I have a feeling they’ll disappear entirely from the basic academy within the next 5-10 years and be replaced by rifles.

In that case, I'd lean heavily toward the Mossberg 590/500 or Benelli SuperNova. The only thing that makes me not recommend the Nova is the inability to change LOP without a hacksaw.
I actually kinda prefer the control layout of the Mossy to the 870.

[Lon]

In that case, I'd lean heavily toward the Mossberg 590/500 or Benelli SuperNova. The only thing that makes me not recommend the Nova is the inability to change LOP without a hacksaw.
I actually kinda prefer the control layout of the Mossy to the 870.

Our Academy Commander bought 5 Mossy 500s. Talk about the biggest pieces of shit in the world. Awful. I had to put a piece of tape on the stocks with hold over info for slugs. The safeties were so bad we stopped using them. They all went back to the factory after we got done at the range.

[167]

Our Academy Commander bought 5 Mossy 500s. Talk about the biggest pieces of shit in the world. Awful. I had to put a piece of tape on the stocks with hold over info for slugs. The safeties were so bad we stopped using them. They all went back to the factory after we got done at the range.

Bead sight guns, or something different?

[Lon]

Bead sight guns, or something different?

Bead sight.

[167]

Bead sight.

All the bead sighted Mossy’s I have used shoot way high. Why Mossberg hasn’t done something to correct that like Remington did is beyond me.

[awp_101]

Any updates on these? One of the local chain stores has them on sale for $279 which is inexpensively tempting. :rolleyes:

[LHS]

All the bead sighted Mossy’s I have used shoot way high. Why Mossberg hasn’t done something to correct that like Remington did is beyond me.

Yeah they haven't figured out that you need a pedestal under the bead on a shorter barrel, despite years of people saying so.

[jgf]

Yeah they haven't figured out that you need a pedestal under the bead on a shorter barrel, despite years of people saying so.

This seems to work: https://defendertactical.com/products/highball

[Chuck Whitlock]

All the bead sighted Mossy’s I have used shoot way high. Why Mossberg hasn’t done something to correct that like Remington did is beyond me.



Yeah they haven't figured out that you need a pedestal under the bead on a shorter barrel, despite years of people saying so.

One reason I like these:

https://xssights.com/products/big-dot-shotgun-bead-plain-barrel-mossberg.html

Back when I was the Chief for a small village in Nebraska, I had the town purchase a T&E Mossberg 590DA1, then had a local-ish gunsmith take 2" off the synthetic stock and install an XSBD. I was able to decently bust clays when wringing the combo out. If I could have, I'd have bought the gun from the village in a heartbeat.

[TCinVA]

Any updates on these? One of the local chain stores has them on sale for $279 which is inexpensively tempting. :rolleyes:

I had a client last week who bought an SXP "Extreme" Defender:

https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/shotguns/sxp/sxp-extreme-defender-fde.html

The "door breacher" choke tube on the thing was fucking ridiculous.

The length of pull on the stock was stupidly long. And the pistol grip didn't help getting to the action release.

It looked goofy as hell.

...but it worked. It ran smoothly. Extraction and ejection were smooth. It has an actual chrome-lined bore and chamber. It patterned extremely well with FFC. The sights were kind of goofy but they were well regulated and allowed accuracy with all the slugs and buckshot I tried in the gun. The heat shield/accessory rail thing they put on it makes taking it apart more complicated than it has to be, but apart from looking like a complete simpleton drew it the fundamentals of the gun weren't bad at all.

If you could put a sensible choke on the thing, swap the goofy pistol-gripped stock for the 12" stock from the Field Micro on it:

https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/shotguns/sxp/sxp-field-micro.html

...and ditch the somewhat goofy heat shield/rail on it, you'd have a pretty solid gun.

The 1200/1300's seem to have more felt recoil than any other pump gun for whatever reason, but apart from that of the "budget" guns out there one of the Winchesters with some reasonable sights doesn't strike me as a particularly bad option.

Unfortunately my client paid $500 for his from Cabelas during the height of pandemic paranoia.

[TCinVA]

Yeah they haven't figured out that you need a pedestal under the bead on a shorter barrel, despite years of people saying so.

I had a client this past weekend with a brand new 590 who asked the same question.

He bought it based on "the guy at the gun store said" and had no real experience with firearms before. And he had never shot this one.

"Why would they make it this way if it doesn't work well?"

I responded: "Well, the gun company is in business to get you to buy a shotgun. Their mission is accomplished."

"Good point."

Luckily for those of you stuck with a Mossberg with a terrible bead sight, there's an option (https://defendertactical.com/products/cosight?variant=42640501276851). One of those would be immensely helpful.

To my surprise, his gun ran extremely well. None of the issues I've seen on a lot of new Mossbergs lately. The action ran smoothly and I could bust out .27 splits with it. It extracted and ejected properly. The wood on it was even nice, although too long for him. It patterned FFC brilliantly at 15 yards.

[awp_101]

Thanks TCinVA! The one on sale is the bog standard Defender (https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/shotguns/sxp/sxp-defender.html) which is bead only and doesn’t appear to be d&t based on the website pictures. I’ve already burned through the fun budget for the year but it looks like it could be a solid suggestion for the “What shotgun should I buy?” question in addition to the Maverick 88 (because the people asking are usually cheap asses frugal).

That Defender Tactical sight looks interesting. I’m curious if the short sight radius is an issue if running irons only.

[TCinVA]

Thanks @TCinVA (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=4)! The one on sale is the bog standard Defender (https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/shotguns/sxp/sxp-defender.html) which is bead only and doesn’t appear to be d&t based on the website pictures. I’ve already burned through the fun budget for the year but it looks like it could be a solid suggestion for the “What shotgun should I buy?” question in addition to the Maverick 88 (because the people asking are usually cheap asses frugal).

That Defender Tactical sight looks interesting. I’m curious if the short sight radius is an issue if running irons only.

For typical shotgun work it shouldn't be.

It's kind of like the sight radius of a compact pistol. Probably wouldn't be ideal for slug use at distance, but the sights alone would be useful for any typical defensive shotgun tasks.

[willie]

My 22 inch vent rib barrel Mossberg shoots very high and did so with an identical borrowed barrel. Mossberg once sold shims to adjust pitch in 12 ga guns. The shims were placed between stock and receiver to raise or lower the stock's position in relation to the receiver. Though their purpose is adjusting fit, they can be used to change p.o.i. Kickeze the recoil pad company sells spacers to place between recoil pad and stock. Spacers are thicker on one end and thinner on the other. To experiment you can place plastic washers between one pad screw and the stock. My intent was correcting pattern placement for wing shooting. Using a higher bead is not a best practice for wing shooting but would be for slug or buckshot use.

I tinker with Mossbergs and got good at it. I regret today that the older guns from 25 years ago were better made. However, when you see a Mossberg on a used gun rack, you very likely will get a good deal. Too, you can take time to examine it closely. They have very low resale value which makes them be priced cheap as used guns.

Gun makers have good and bad runs of products. They often outsource parts. Once Mossberg sold a ton of 500's with defective shell latches. Then they did the same thing with mag springs. There was a big run of adjustable sights on 590 guns, and most had crooked front sights. But when their components are to spec, Mossberg can make an ok shotgun.

My opinion is that Mossberg more closely inspects gun designated to be shipped to law enforcement. Hence one of these is a better choice.
.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Luckily for those of you stuck with a Mossberg with a terrible bead sight, there's an option (https://defendertactical.com/products/cosight?variant=42640501276851). One of those would be immensely helpful.

It's kind of like the sight radius of a compact pistol. Probably wouldn't be ideal for slug use at distance, but the sights alone would be useful for any typical defensive shotgun tasks.

That's pretty slick! Ought to pair pretty nicely with a Shockwave.

My wife has a 20 ga. 510 Mini, too.

[SCCY Marshal]

...My wife has a 20 ga. 510 Mini, too.

One of these with an adult-sized stock would be such a handy do it all shotgun. I keep hoping my oldest tires of the 510 so I can take it but, nope. Little bugger.

[Chuck Whitlock]

One of these with an adult-sized stock would be such a handy do it all shotgun. I keep hoping my oldest tires of the 510 so I can take it but, nope. Little bugger.

I'm a stubby guy, so the stubby stock(s) aren't much of a hinderance. As small and light as it is, it recoils about like a 12 guage. If you try to hip-shoot, the gun will exit, stage rear! Ask me how I know!