Late 90s p220

[DickPR]

So I found this in Cheyenne Wyoming of all places. It is unfired from what I can tell. Store owners said it arrived wraped in plastic from the original owner. Zero marks on the frame rails. From a google search it was manufactured around 96 to 97. Marked made in Germany. How did I do? What should I know as far as possible trouble spots? Anyone who can give me a history lesson would be appreciated.

[Sero Sed Serio]

Beautiful. Pretty much identical to my first SIG, down to the time frame. Mine was almost magically accurate. Yours has the updated hammer (the result of a CA LEO killed in the line of duty by his dropped 220; it was determined that he had thumbed the hammer down rather than using the decocker). The folded carbon slide SIGs require periodic replacement of the breech block pins. Overall the SIG .45s do not have as long a service life as other weapons, and the folded slide guns less so. Extractors and other internal slide parts may be difficult to find if needed. My gun’s finish wore very easily, and one of the blued mags developed rust after very little time in a leather mag pouch. The flat takedown levers tend to mar the finish, but pushing on the right side of the takedown lever and slipping a piece of paper between the frame and the lever can mitigate this. Keep the frame rails well-lubricated (I prefer grease) to protect the anodizing. SIG initially had issues when they redesigned the mags to hold 8 rounds, and I honestly haven’t paid enough attention to the 220s to know if this continues to be an issue or not. You will love shooting it—it is a very elegant weapon.

[Evil_Ed]

Beautiful. Pretty much identical to my first SIG, down to the time frame. Mine was almost magically accurate. Yours has the updated hammer (the result of a CA LEO killed in the line of duty by his dropped 220; it was determined that he had thumbed the hammer down rather than using the decocker). The folded carbon slide SIGs require periodic replacement of the breech block pins. Overall the SIG .45s do not have as long a service life as other weapons, and the folded slide guns less so. Extractors and other internal slide parts may be difficult to find if needed. My gun’s finish wore very easily, and one of the blued mags developed rust after very little time in a leather mag pouch. The flat takedown levers tend to mar the finish, but pushing on the right side of the takedown lever and slipping a piece of paper between the frame and the lever can mitigate this. Keep the frame rails well-lubricated (I prefer grease) to protect the anodizing. SIG initially had issues when they redesigned the mags to hold 8 rounds, and I honestly haven’t paid enough attention to the 220s to know if this continues to be an issue or not. You will love shooting it—it is a very elegant weapon.

The 8 round mag issue has been solved as far as I know; mags are stamped 220-1 I think now...there's notches pressed into it to prevent inertia feeds. At least, the couple thousand rounds I've put through all of mine, zero feed issues in both my full size P220s or my P220 Compact..the new factory mags are just fine from what I can tell. ACT-MAGs are another copy of the P220 mags but these do not have the inertia feed prevention nubs pressed into them. Sig mags are pricy, but they're worth the price IMO. The ACT-MAG copies are pretty literally half the price of the Sig mags; I have a bunch for practice...fortunately they're a different color than the Sig mags so they're really easy to tell apart. The Sig mags are silver and the ACT-MAGs are black.

You can fortunately find the pins and some other small parts from either Top Gun Supply or Midwest Gun Works...from my notes, those pins are:

inner pin: 1202658-R OR PIN-2
outer pin: PIN-4

Top Gun has PIN-2; I think Midwest Gun Works has them both...you won't be able to find an extractor for love or money though; they just don't exist anymore. Last I recall Gray Guns would custom-fab you one but it was a pricy service. My example is from 2000 and I swapped out the breech block pins when I got it (mine was a used LE tradein so it was only prudent to swap all the wearables). I don't remember the replacement interval for the pins; I want to say it was something like every 5000 rounds? If you plan on shooting it, it'll be best to pick up a couple extra recoil springs as well as sets of pins...when it's time to swap the recoil spring, it's time to swap the pins too. The last time I investigated it, Sig would replace an extractor but not ship you a new one; they would only do it in-house in NH. I don't know if that's still true. There's also the possibility that Sig might just straight up replace your slide with a new solid/stainless steel one if you send it in to them...I'd probably be a little leery of that and nail down precisely what service you want done if you need to send it in..

On the alloy frame Sigs, always use grease on the frame rails, not CLP or oil...the anodizing wears way too much and too quickly otherwise. My example, the top 1/4 or so of each rail is down to raw metal (through the anodizing) because it wasn't really properly lubricated...not a huge huge problem but it can happen, and any more wear like that and I'd start getting concerned (YMMV here). Here's a good article on Sig frame lubrication: Bruce Gray on lubricating Sigs (https://grayguns.com/lubrication-of-sig-sauer-pistol-rails/)

[fatdog]

Great find. It was my favorite gun for most of the 90's. I think the previous posters have told you everything important you need to know.

[John Hearne]

That's the same vintage as my first P220. Roll pin and magazine advice above is spot on. Replace the recoil spring every 3,500 rounds.

[OlongJohnson]

A thing of beauty. Like a DA/SA lightweight Commander, except it fits my hand much better than the Colt.

The slide, even with proper roll pin service intervals, lacks the durability of the milled slides, so don't run it as a high volume shooter. But definitely shoot it.

I'm a fan of the Hogue G10 checkered grips. They have a little more flat on the sides and seem to squirm less than the more oval cross section factory grips.

[DickPR]

Really appreciate the advice from everyone. I have owned 229s and 228s but never a 220 so any knowledge is helpful.

I definitely plan on shooting it but not abusing it.

[Beast17]

What should I know as far as possible trouble spots?

Well, first of all I guess I should say thanks for inspiring me to get off my butt and make an account here. Been lurking for about 8 years.

I had a P220 back in the late 90's that my agency let me carry as a POW. By LEO standards I shot it a lot, but maybe not too high a round count compared to some here. This is a gun you really need to stay on top of if you're going to put a lot of rounds through it. I eventually bought a second gun because I really liked it, but I couldn't trust it based on the breakdowns. One was virtually unfired and carried on duty, but the practice gun I just shot until it broke and kept records of when things went out on it. This is my record of round counts and when things broke:

Purchased 9/14/97

Rounds 4800 - Trigger return spring broke. Spring was replaced by an armorer. This wasn't repairable at the field strip level. This is would be a catastrophic failure in a gunfight. The trigger just swung loose and had no effect. Compare this to a Glock. I had a trigger return spring break on a Glock 21 (I like .45's) and the trigger still functioned - you just had to flick it forward. It wouldn't reset on its own, but continued to cause the gun to discharge when manually reset by pushing it forward. On the SIG the trigger just swings loose and the gun is down and nonfunctional.

Round 5700 - Recoil spring all warped and horrible looking, functioning was ok. I changed out the recoil spring myself, easy fix.

Rounds 8650 - Extractor ceased functioning. Multiple failures to extract during this practice session. Extractor replaced by a gunsmith.

Rounds 9250 - Breakdown pin sheared off. This was catastrophic. The slide slid off the frame of the gun in the middle of a qual course. The gun came apart and was obviously non-functional and beyond immediate repair. The breakdown pin was replaced by an armorer.

Rounds 10,000 - SIG factory replaced all springs, breakdown pin, and all small parts showing wear. Detail stripped, cleaned, inspected and lubricated.

Rounds 15,000 - 15,700 - Slide lock problems started around 15,000 rounds. At 15,700 the slide catch lever was replaced. It was so worn down it was round, not sharp edged, and it would not lock back reliably.

Rounds 17,250 - Benched into my safe.

At the end I transferred to another agency and they switched me over to a Glock. I hated that trigger to start, but 5,000 rounds later I didn't mind it.

I generally swapped the recoil spring out every 5,000 rounds or so. They just got all horribly warped looking by that point. Obviously that's an easy lift, it's not like you have to go beyond field stripping to swap that out.

The ammo fired through it was a mix of commercial ball, reloaded ball, and Federal Hydra-Shok. None of the reloaded ball was hot and I never had any problems with the reloaded ball beyond an occasional bad primer.

Hope this helps a little.

[MattyD380]

Mine was almost magically accurate.

Mine too. My late 90s P220 and P245 (a compact P220 before there was actually a “P220 compact”) are as accurate as anything I’ve shot. They’re great guns. I shot that group (~50 rounds) with my P245 at 10 yards after not touching the gun for a year. Not gonna win any medals, but even a hack like me can shoot with one of these things.

75838
75837

I sent my P220 into Sig this Fall to have the roll pins replaced. I’ve tried to do it myself, but i can never get the things to move. So that is kind of a pain. But a set of pins supposedly lasts 5000+ rounds. Other than that, I feel like they have a well-respected service record.

And while I do use a bit of grease on the rails in addition to oil (grease alone seems a little too viscous; slide was noticeably more sluggish on my P225, for instance, with just grease), I sometimes wonder if the concern over “rail wear” is overplayed. Maybe I’ve got the wrong idea, but I feel like an aluminum-alloy frame rail is gonna keep doing it’s job whether it’s covered with anodizing or not. And in my experience, the anodizing on Sigs tends to wear a bit in certain spots then it sorta stays where it is.

All this to say: I haven’t personally put tens of thousands of rounds through any Sig. But even the well-worn P2XX Sigs I’ve owned were reliable and accurate (well, except for a P230) and seemed like they had lots more left in them.

[Sero Sed Serio]

Mine too. My late 90s P220 and P245 (a compact P220 before there was actually a “P220 compact”) are as accurate as anything I’ve shot. They’re great guns. I shot that group with my P245 at 10 yards after not touching the gun for a year. Not gonna win any medals, but even a hack like me can shoot with one of these things.

I still have an Ace of Spades I center-punched with my old P220, and remember the day I discovered I could hit on demand point of impact with it—at the time I was still developing as a shooter and was spending a lot of time with Glocks, which for me are always area of impact guns.

A part of me still irrationally lusts for a P245.


And while I do use a bit of grease on the rails in addition to oil (grease alone seems a little too viscous; slide was noticeably more sluggish on my P225, for instance, with just grease), I sometimes wonder if the concern over “rail wear” is overplayed. Maybe I’ve got the wrong idea, but I feel like an aluminum-alloy frame rail is gonna keep doing it’s job whether it’s covered with anodizing or not. And in my experience, the anodizing on Sigs tends to wear a bit in certain spots then it sorta stays where it is.

I use pure grease (Lucas Extreme Duty) and a lot of it, and have never noticed any sluggishness, but I am in a hotter climate. Even when I was just just using oil (I was still generous with it), my experiences mirrored yours.


All this to say: I haven’t personally put tens of thousands of rounds through any Sig. But even the well-worn P2XX Sigs I’ve owned were reliable and accurate (well, except for a P230) and seemed like they had lots more left in them.

My highest round count SIG was an 05-06 P229 9mm two-tone. This was one of the last guns that I didn’t keep an exact round count log for, but probably had over 10,000 rounds without a malfunction. It got a little rattley, but virtually no wear on the slide, no visible wear on the frame, and mild wear on the slide rails. This was despite regular carry in a variety of leather and kydex holsters.

[HCM]

That's the same vintage as my first P220. Roll pin and magazine advice above is spot on. Replace the recoil spring every 3,500 rounds.

This ^^^^

Failure to replace the RSA as required will result in other parts breakages, particularly Takedown levers.

I would also avoid +P ammo or replace the RSA sooner if +P can’t be avoided.

[Rex G]

How did you do? You did well! Enjoy!

[Evil_Ed]

Also, if you enjoy looking for things that complete the set...Sig made not only a 22lr kit for it, but a threaded 22lr kit for it. Obviously they don't sell them anymore, since that would make them too much money, and they can't have that. I was lucky enough to find one right as they were blowing them out, as well as a bunch of mags when Sig was selling them at half price (so, $22)....

I gotta say, even though I've only put maybe 500 rounds though it, it's been stupidly reliable...both with and without a can on.

75858

75860

The eagle eyed among you may have noticed a discrepancy in the 45 mags but not quite what it was...

75859

The one on the left is the one that shipped with this used LE trade-in; the one on the right was purchased when I got it in to my FFL a few years ago. Both are helpfully marked the same 220-1, so you can instantly tell which one is the new rev and which one is the old; only the best from Sig. Anyway, all the 220 mags have those dimples now...

[MattyD380]

75859

The one on the left is the one that shipped with this used LE trade-in; the one on the right was purchased when I got it in to my FFL a few years ago. Both are helpfully marked the same 220-1, so you can instantly tell which one is the new rev and which one is the old; only the best from Sig. Anyway, all the 220 mags have those dimples now...

So, are the dimples only necessary on the 8 rounders? I've got some old-school German-made 7-rounders (with metal followers) that seem to work fine--they don't have dimples. And I've got a Mec-Gar 7-rounder (plastic follower) that also seems to work fine, sans dimples.

I will say that the P245/P220c mags (i.e., the 6-rounders) DEFINITELY need the dimples. I had a few inertial feeds with the non-dimpled 6-rounders; that never happened with the dimpled 6-rounders.

[Evil_Ed]

So, are the dimples only necessary on the 8 rounders? I've got some old-school German-made 7-rounders (with metal followers) that seem to work fine--they don't have dimples. And I've got a Mec-Gar 7-rounder (plastic follower) that also seems to work fine, sans dimples.

I will say that the P245/P220c mags (i.e., the 6-rounders) DEFINITELY need the dimples. I had a few inertial feeds with the non-dimpled 6-rounders; that never happened with the dimpled 6-rounders.

I have a pile of P220c mags and mine all have the dimples (I can photo if you need)...I would guess the 8 rounders need the dimples? I would assume (I don't know; don't have any) the 7 round mag follower/body is different and may not need that, but the 8 rounder seems like a slicker Wilson Combat; easy to inertia feed without something to arrest it, like the dimples...

[Brian T]

If anyone needs P220 factory mags, call Kurt at Bear Arms in Scottsdale, AZ

[JonInWA]

I don't have a dog in this fight (anymore), but I will say that the forum's response to and the information provided to the OP has been absolutely superb, and one of the things that continues to set p-f apart from the rest (in a good sense).

Best, Jon

[Rock185]

DickPR, Your 220 is a beauty, '90s guns in that condition do not come along every day. What is the date code under the "chin" of the slide? I bought my first 220 about '90-'91, and have owned others since; all stainless, Match, 9mm, etc. All fine pistols. A model that eluded me for some time was the 9mm version with the "American" type mag release. Finally found not one, but two a few years ago. They were LNIB '94 and '95 guns. Kept the '95 220 and hope to hang on to this one for a while;)

[Evil_Ed]

DickPR, Your 220 is a beauty, '90s guns in that condition do not come along every day. What is the date code under the "chin" of the slide? I bought my first 220 about '90-'91, and have owned others since; all stainless, Match, 9mm, etc. All fine pistols. A model that eluded me for some time was the 9mm version with the "American" type mag release. Finally found not one, but two a few years ago. They were LNIB '94 and '95 guns. Kept the '95 220 and hope to hang on to this one for a while;)

My "grail" of the 220 series is a post-94 in 38 Super (post-94 as it's my understanding around 1993-1994 was when Sig went to the rebounding hammer on the 220s), with the US mag release. The Euro release would be fine too...either one honestly would be impossible to find mags for, but the American one would be easier to use.

Every time one comes up on GB, it instantly hits an incredibly high price...my timing has just never been good for picking one up.

Hell, if I could find a 38 Super slide, barrel and locking block, I'd be tempted to just convert my existing folded slide 220...I think that's all there is, maybe an ejector needs to be swapped out too..

Edited - oh right, the ejector is built into the slide stop lever, which is static on these; same one for everything I think...that makes life easier; just locking block, barrel and complete slide then...phew, I thought this was gonna be hard! :D

[Evil_Ed]

!!!! Apparently extractors are back on the menu!!

https://www.matrixprecisionparts.com/sigparts/sig-sauer-extractor-p220-p226-p227-p229-p239

Stock up while you can!

Edit - looks like it's only for 9mm slides...

[MK11]

'90s-vintage Sigs are the best Sigs, IMO. Smoother and stronger than their predecessors, more trustworthy than their successors.

That said, here's two non-90s P220s: a late '80s West German P220 and an early '00s 220ST that went through the whole rigmarole of bad internal extractor, Gray Guns experimental extractor and finally a new slide with external extractor.

75906

[DickPR]

So much to digest. Really glad I came to PF for this. If I were to buy a brand new legion 220 to keep this one company, are there any known issues with those or should they be good out of the box (minus the sights falling off etc lol)?

[Sig_Fiend]

Great find DickPR! They're attractive guns and great shooters IMO.

At the risk of stating the obvious, figured I should post this for posterity sake. On the older pressed slide models with the separate breech block, definitely NEVER single load anything through the ejection port. I had a friend that used to do that with snap caps or dummy rounds for dry fire, despite my warnings. It doesn't take many times. Maybe a couple dozen, and it will reduce tension on the internal extractor. You'll start noticing failures to extract/eject as a result.

Newer, milled slide P220s are generally still good guns in the grand scheme of things. Yes, there have been issues from time to time. As long as the frame, slide, and barrel are in spec, all else can be replaced easily if there's a defect but, that's just my opinion. If it was me, I'd keep the classic pressed slide model as a collector and buy a milled slide model for a shooter.

[Rock185]

DickPR, I used to be one of our Dept. armorers, and one of the officers did have one of those problematic P220s with extraction issues. His standard milled slide 220 had the internal extractor that sometimes created failure to extract issues. But in looking at the photos on GB, it appears the Legions have the improved short external extractor. I suspect a new Legion would function just fine, and if it didn't, SIG would address the issue.

BTW, the guy who had the extractor issues with his new P220, had switched to the 220 after his Glock KA-Boomed. Seems like he couldn't catch a break with his duty pistols.....

[Sero Sed Serio]

A model that eluded me for some time was the 9mm version with the "American" type mag release. Finally found not one, but two a few years ago. They were LNIB '94 and '95 guns. Kept the '95 220 and hope to hang on to this one for a while;)

If you’re looking for another:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/909332276

No affiliation, just an enabler that lurks GB for NOS SIGs