Scope selection

[mtnbkr]

I'm looking to put a scope on my Savage Hog Hunter 308. Until now, I've been using a peep sight, but aging eyes and a suppressor w/cover is making that less than optimal now. I have a chunk of money in my Cabelas Bucks account as well as a small gift card, so whatever I get *must* come from Cabelas. My primary use for this rifle is punching paper out to 100yds, but I won't rule out future options for longer distances. Secondary use is hunting in the Blue Ridge Mountains with distances from near point blank out to 150yds. I want a bit more magnification for target shooting, but keeping the low end low enough for woods hunting (somewhere in the 2x-4x range). I have two primary loads, one that is a 180gr spitzer soft point for general purpose, and another that is a 200gr subsonic for "quiet fun". I want to buy American Made if at all possible. My budget is $300-$500.

Up till now all of my scopes (Leupold, Nikon, Burris) have been standard 3-9x (or shorter) scopes intended for hunting, so I'm still learning the importance and application of other features beyond those basic scopes.

I've narrowed it down to these two, but I'm open to other suggestions.
Leupold VX-Freedom CDS Tri-MOA Rifle Scope - 4-12x40mm (https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/leupold-vx-freedom-cds-tri-moa-rifle-scope)
Leupold VX-Freedom CDS Rifle Scope - 4-12x40mm (https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/leupold-vx-freedom-cds-rifle-scope): 4-12x option...This one is my primary choice due to the side focus and 30mm tube (might be useful to cover adjustment range between 180gr supersonics and 200+gr subsonics)
Both have the CDS option that could be useful to me.

Chris

[okie john]

I see three use cases.

Hunting: The 308/180 spitzer zeroed for 125 yards will be within an inch of POA to 150 yards, so there’s no need to dial. Any weather-resistant optic should be fine.

200-grain fun: This probably does require dialing. Therein lies the rub—recent Leupolds aren’t known for repeatable tracking. If you’ve got a serviceable scope, then hunt with it and buy a non-Leupold that’s known to track reliably for use with 200-grain loads.

Paper beyond 100: I’ve had good luck getting hits to ~400 yards with hold-over reticles in hunting scopes. Luck got a lot less important when I started dialing. Getting hits beyond that with a 308 starts to become a specialized endeavor that deserves specialized gear, possibly Nightforce or other more expensive optics.

What mounts are you using? A rifle as versatile as a 308 deserves a 1913 rail, and they’re fairly cheap.


Okie John

[rjohnson4405]

So, in my opinion, you're really leaning that scope towards 100yd target shooting with too much magnification even for that.

I think this scope is custom made for that bad boy and 0-150 yards https://www.leupold.com/reticle/pig-plex-vx-freedom/

Not sure if you can find it at Cabelas or not anymore.

Use binoculars or a spotting scope to find your hits at 100, 4x is enough in my opinion.

[mtnbkr]

I see three use cases.

[QUOTE=okie john;1253647]Hunting: The 308/180 spitzer zeroed for 125 yards will be within an inch of POA to 150 yards, so there’s no need to dial. Any weather-resistant optic should be fine.
For that use case, if not for the can+cover, I'd be fine sticking with the peep sight, so any scope will do for that use case.


200-grain fun: This probably does require dialing. Therein lies the rub—recent Leupolds aren’t known for repeatable tracking. If you’ve got a serviceable scope, then hunt with it and buy a non-Leupold that’s known to track reliably for use with 200-grain loads.
Good point about the issue with repeatable tracking. I wasn't aware of that. Leupold was the first "good" scope I bought and one many of my friends use, so it always sticks in my head as a "go to". However, on my other main hunting rifle, it hasn't been adjusted since I mounted it nearly 20 years ago. Same gun, same scope, same load. This will be the first scope where I may be changing elevation over and over again. I don't want two scopes for this gun though.


Paper beyond 100: I’ve had good luck getting hits to ~400 yards with hold-over reticles in hunting scopes. Luck got a lot less important when I started dialing. Getting hits beyond that with a 308 starts to become a specialized endeavor that deserves specialized gear, possibly Nightforce or other more expensive optics.
To be honest, I doubt I'll be faced with an opportunity to shoot much beyond 200yds. Hell, I don't recall the last time I could have shot beyond 150. I like the idea of trying that out, but it's not a burning need. I'm perfectly fine with holdover, but thought something like their CDS turret would make for less "guesswork" if I knew the range.


What mounts are you using? A rifle as versatile as a 308 deserves a 1913 rail, and they’re fairly cheap.
Haven't selected any yet. I figured the scope, to an extent, would dictate the mounts.

Chris

[mtnbkr]

So, in my opinion, you're really leaning that scope towards 100yd target shooting with too much magnification even for that.
Possibly. I "think" I want to see the target up close and personal through the scope at that distance. I also recall informal "competitions" with friends that amounted to cutting small flags off target stands and the like.


I think this scope is custom made for that bad boy and 0-150 yards https://www.leupold.com/reticle/pig-plex-vx-freedom/

Not sure if you can find it at Cabelas or not anymore.

Use binoculars or a spotting scope to find your hits at 100, 4x is enough in my opinion.
Something like that scope is available there. I have a 2-7x on my main hunting rifle and a 3-9x on another (more of a range toy). The 2-7 is definitely pushing things, a 3-9x would work but, having used that I thought maybe a little more would be better. :)

Chris

[okie john]

To be honest, I doubt I'll be faced with an opportunity to shoot much beyond 200yds. Hell, I don't recall the last time I could have shot beyond 150. I like the idea of trying that out, but it's not a burning need. I'm perfectly fine with holdover, but thought something like their CDS turret would make for less "guesswork" if I knew the range.

If you know the range, then you can figure the drops here: https://www.federalpremium.com/ballistics-calculator

Then just keep them where you can find them. This method is crude but it works:

75540


Haven't selected any yet. I figured the scope, to an extent, would dictate the mounts.

It does, but how you plan to use the rifle is a bigger influence.


Okie John

[mtnbkr]

If you know the range, then you can figure the drops here: https://www.federalpremium.com/ballistics-calculator

Then just keep them where you can find them. This method is crude but it works:

I've done similar things before, but I was hoping, perhaps unrealistically, for a simple "turn the dial to X" solution for when I switch loads (most likely) or extend my distance materially beyond 100yds (less likely).



It does, but how you plan to use the rifle is a bigger influence.


Okie John
I'm aware of 20moa bases and why they would be used, but other than that, what is there to be considered?

Chris

[okie john]

I've done similar things before, but I was hoping, perhaps unrealistically, for a simple "turn the dial to X" solution for when I switch loads (most likely) or extend my distance materially beyond 100yds (less likely).

You might be able to get there. Some loads require different settings for windage as well as elevation, so it might be more like "turn Dial A to X and Dial B to Y." My experience with the Leupold CDS system is limited but I've found that it works to the extent that the scope's internals are repeatable, and that you get the most out of it when you stick to one load. For swapping loads, you might be able to swap in a new elevation drum but I'd bet that the procedure is, "Turn to Elevation Setting A and Windage Setting B, THEN swap in the new drum." In either case, you'd have to reverse those changes when going back to the original load. Do this when you're alone with no distractions because if you get off track mid-task, then you have to go to the range and rezero for one load or the other, then back out the corrections from there.

That's a lot of screwing around with scope settings no matter how you slice it. I'd be inclined to skip the CDS system, make notes of the changes required, and put those changes onto the sights when you swap loads. The beauty of a second optic is that you zero it for the second load and swap optics when you swap loads. The beauty of the 1913 rail is that you can do that and keep your zeros. It's not fool-proof but it is fool-resistant.


I'm aware of 20moa bases and why they would be used, but other than that, what is there to be considered?

For a rifle where you might change optics often or add night vision gear, magnifiers, lights, etc., then you want a 1913 rail. For a hunting rifle where you want light weight and the ability to replace a damaged scope in the field with primitive tools, old-school Weavers are light, cheap, and return to zero. For a target rifle that won't get banged around like a hunting rifle, you can use rings that bolt directly to the action. For a classic blue-and-walnut rifle, you'd want Redfield-pattern rings and bases because they look great, but some scope makers tell you to avoid them because the scope is really only held in place by the front ring, which is why you rarely see them on anything that kicks harder than a 338 WM. They also don't return to zero as well as 1913 or Weaver systems but they're close enough for big-game hunting out to about 300 yards.


Okie John

[mtnbkr]

The beauty of a second optic is that you zero it for the second load and swap optics when you swap loads. The beauty of the 1913 rail is that you can do that and keep your zeros. It's not fool-proof but it is fool-resistant.

At first I was thinking "second scope, that's crazy talk", but then I realized by going with a simpler scope, I could fit two identical ones into my budget rather than a single "do everything" model. That would require "downgrading" to a simple 3-9x though.

Then again, with what I'd be doing with the subsonics (mostly fun plinking with the can), maybe I wouldn't even need a 2nd scope, but a low end red dot already sighted in to that load. Couple different avenues to explore...

Chris

[jandbj]

At first I was thinking "second scope, that's crazy talk", but then I realized by going with a simpler scope, I could fit two identical ones into my budget rather than a single "do everything" model. That would require "downgrading" to a simple 3-9x though.

Then again, with what I'd be doing with the subsonics (mostly fun plinking with the can), maybe I wouldn't even need a 2nd scope, but a low end red dot already sighted in to that load. Couple different avenues to explore...

Chris

This is a good description of what I did with my Ruger GSR. 2.75x Burris Scout scope and cheap (but still surprisingly good for the $) Bushnell TRS-25. Gives me a total of three options when you include the iron sights. About $300 worth of optics, and a $15 set of Weaver 4x4 medium height rings. Can change optics with a quarter, and the little hex wrench for the Bushnell fits in larue wire guides on the rail too. Just marked each ring and location where they go on the rail with a paint pen. All options still holding zero over about 500 rounds with multiple attach/detach cycles.

[mtnbkr]

This is a good description of what I did with my Ruger GSR. 2.75x Burris Scout scope and cheap (but still surprisingly good for the $) Bushnell TRS-25. Gives me a total of three options when you include the iron sights. About $300 worth of optics, and a $15 set of Weaver 4x4 medium height rings. Can change optics with a quarter, and the little hex wrench for the Bushnell fits in larue wire guides on the rail too. Just marked each ring and location where they go on the rail with a paint pen. All options still holding zero over about 500 rounds with multiple attach/detach cycles.

Awesome, it looks like my thought is not entirely off the rails. :)

Is your GSR the 308 model? I have and like the Bushnell TRS-25s on my AR and Ruger 45/22 22lr. I *had* one on my 625 45ACP, but shot it to pieces within 100 rounds. Prior to that, it had lived on my AR for about 1k rounds (the one on my AR currently is the replacement). I suspect it was a counterfeit since I bought it from Amazon and the dial was exceedingly tight (more so than the other two I currently own). If it'll hold up to a 308 bolt rifle, I'll go that route since it won't need to live up to the rigors of battle or hunting.

Chris

[jandbj]

Awesome, it looks like my thought is not entirely off the rails. :)

Is your GSR the 308 model? I have and like the Bushnell TRS-25s on my AR and Ruger 45/22 22lr. I *had* one on my 625 45ACP, but shot it to pieces within 100 rounds. Prior to that, it had lived on my AR for about 1k rounds (the one on my AR currently is the replacement). I suspect it was a counterfeit since I bought it from Amazon and the dial was exceedingly tight (more so than the other two I currently own). If it'll hold up to a 308 bolt rifle, I'll go that route since it won't need to live up to the rigors of battle or hunting.

Chris

308 GSR stainless & synthetic stock (thus the lightest weight one too) and genuine Bushnell. Holosun has similar models I’d consider as well for not much more than the Bushnell.

[CSW]

I'm looking to put a scope on my Savage Hog Hunter 308. Until now, I've been using a peep sight, but aging eyes and a suppressor w/cover is making that less than optimal now. I have a chunk of money in my Cabelas Bucks account as well as a small gift card, so whatever I get *must* come from Cabelas. My primary use for this rifle is punching paper out to 100yds, but I won't rule out future options for longer distances. Secondary use is hunting in the Blue Ridge Mountains with distances from near point blank out to 150yds. I want a bit more magnification for target shooting, but keeping the low end low enough for woods hunting (somewhere in the 2x-4x range). I have two primary loads, one that is a 180gr spitzer soft point for general purpose, and another that is a 200gr subsonic for "quiet fun". I want to buy American Made if at all possible. My budget is $300-$500.

Up till now all of my scopes (Leupold, Nikon, Burris) have been standard 3-9x (or shorter) scopes intended for hunting, so I'm still learning the importance and application of other features beyond those basic scopes.

I've narrowed it down to these two, but I'm open to other suggestions.
Leupold VX-Freedom CDS Tri-MOA Rifle Scope - 4-12x40mm (https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/leupold-vx-freedom-cds-tri-moa-rifle-scope)
Leupold VX-Freedom CDS Rifle Scope - 4-12x40mm (https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/leupold-vx-freedom-cds-rifle-scope): 4-12x option...This one is my primary choice due to the side focus and 30mm tube (might be useful to cover adjustment range between 180gr supersonics and 200+gr subsonics)
Both have the CDS option that could be useful to me.

Chris

I have the Leupold Rifleman 2_7x33 on my model 700.
More than enough scope for the NH hardwoods.
It wasn't expensive but has really good glass and excellent eye relief.

Have you considered the Vortex Crossfire ii, 1-4x24?
Fairly inexpensive and good optics as well.

[okie john]

At first I was thinking "second scope, that's crazy talk", but then I realized by going with a simpler scope, I could fit two identical ones into my budget rather than a single "do everything" model. That would require "downgrading" to a simple 3-9x though.

The "simple" 3-9 is rarely wrong. I use a rifle for hunting and related plinking to about 350 yards. I could only have one scope, then a good 3-9 would be a strong contender, followed by a 2.5-8, and a good fixed 4x.


Okie John

[mtnbkr]

I have the Leupold Rifleman 2_7x33 on my model 700.
More than enough scope for the NH hardwoods.
It wasn't expensive but has really good glass and excellent eye relief.

Have you considered the Vortex Crossfire ii, 1-4x24?
Fairly inexpensive and good optics as well.

I've got the Rifleman's predecessor, the VX-1 2-7x32 on my Winchester Featherweight 6.5x55. Those two are a perfect match and great for hunting, but I'm looking for something with a bit more reach and maybe something more target than hunting oriented. I have been looking at some of the Vortex models.

Chris

[mtnbkr]

The "simple" 3-9 is rarely wrong. I use a rifle for hunting and related plinking to about 350 yards. I could only have one scope, then a good 3-9 would be a strong contender, followed by a 2.5-8, and a good fixed 4x.


Okie John
Yup. Still trying to decide what I want and if I really need this to be a hunting rifle or maybe something more range-oriented.

Chris

[OlongJohnson]

The thing I've noticed consistently about Vortex scopes is they have large ocular bells. So even if the objective bell is small, you're limited in how low you can mount them. Not a problem on an AR, but might be a distinct disadvantage compared to many Leupolds, for example, on a conventionally-stocked gun.