10,000 round Galil ACE test! (thoughts and ideas wanted)

[Greg Bell]

Hey guys,

I am going to do a series of videos where I document 10,000 rounds through my Galil ACE 7.62x39 Pistol. I am choosing it because I feel that the 7.62 is the best round for the super short format, and 7.62x39 is really the only "cheap" ammo around. The test will involve:

1. 10,000 rounds of Russian FMJ ammo.
2. Appropriate maintenance. This will not involve any stunt abuse.
3. A Holosun 503 optic (can it take 10k rounds of fairly exuberant recoil?)
4. Regular groups taken every 1000 rounds.
5. A carbine class if I can find time and the plague doesn't kill me.

I will shoot 200-250 rounds per week (barring vacation or sickness). Obviously, it should take me at least 9 months to complete.


My purpose in doing this test is to see if the Gen2 Galil is really ready for prime time. There are tons of 1k or so tests, but not much documenting the condition of the gun after a "lifetime" of shooting. I will be on the lookout for problems and parts breakage.


Let me know if you have any practical ideas for what to keep up with or for what to test. I know that this isn't a scientific test, but I want to keep up with as much info as is practical.


https://youtu.be/moU6ZglcsNY

[JRB]

Function/Fitment testing with all the various common magazines would be good.
No need to get weird with expensive collector stuff like Bosnian 2-ribs or Bakes, but it'd be cool to see common milsurp mags (Romanian, East German etc) vs common aftermarket mags (Magpul, KCI, Tapco, Bulgarian waffles, etc.) along with maybe some drum mags too.

Different ad-hoc penetration 'testing' vs things like junkyard car doors at various ranges from 25-300M would be interesting as well, given the short barrel.

[Default.mp3]

Maybe chrono the gun when you shoot for groups, too?

[Patrick Taylor]

When Action Arms was the importer for the Galil they put 45,000 rounds through a 5.56 rifle without problems.

[HCM]

When Action Arms was the importer for the Galil they put 45,000 rounds through a 5.56 rifle without problems.

Same name but not the same rifle.

[MandoWookie]

Interested to see how this pans out. With most decent AK models available pushing into Gucci AR price territory, the Galil Ace looks like a pretty decent upgrade for the price over basic patterns going for not much less.
Not sure how I feel about the feature set for the gen 2, the lack of irons in particular, but if the gun proves to be solid otherwise that is not a huge problem.

[Patrick Taylor]

Same name but not the same rifle.

.....and ......details please???

[Greg Bell]

1. I will chrono the groups in the future and compare it against my 16 inch Saiga.

2. I will test it with a variety of mags (so far everything fits I think, so that may not be too exciting.

3. I may switch to a scalarworks absolute co-witness to bring the sight down a bit.

4. I am very interested in doing penetration testing. What medium would you like me to use (that isn't cost prohibitive). I can definitely get a car door if that's what you want.

[Joe in PNG]

Some old pressed steel wheel rims may be fun as well.

[Wondering Beard]

4. I am very interested in doing penetration testing. What medium would you like me to use (that isn't cost prohibitive). I can definitely get a car door if that's what you want.

Using some self defense oriented ammo for those tests would be interesting in a short gun. I think Hornady has one and various makers have used a Barnes all copper bullet but I'm not knowledgeable about what's out there.

[Greg Bell]

Using some self defense oriented ammo for those tests would be interesting in a short gun. I think Hornady has one and various makers have used a Barnes all copper bullet but I'm not knowledgeable about what's out there.

I will try and do that. I will come up with a few tests. I want to do something useful (like what you are proposing), rather than stunt stuff. I really like the idea of testing barrier penetration. Maybe the car door, a regular door, and something fun like a trash can with stuff in it. Especially since use of the 7.62x39 is often recommended for barrier penetration.

[mrozowjj]

As a recent Galil convert I am very interested in the results of this.

[HCM]

.....and ......details please???

The only thing they have in common is they are both based on the AK action and both have the Galil style safety on the left side.

The trunnions, receivers, barrels and magazines are are all different. None of the Galil ACE’s use the original proprietary mags.

No judgement on which is better but the Galil and the Galil ACE have no more in common with each other than they do with any other AK variant.

Re the 45k test - i can believe one of the original guns went bang 45k times but you would be lucky to retain accuracy for a third of that round count.

I owned a pre-ban Action Arms Galil for a few years. It was reliable but ridiculously heavy and the 1/12 twist barrel restricted ammo options.

[Patrick Taylor]

There are a few videos out there of people trying to take weight off the ACE , they are taking off some of the changes and going back to the 1980s parts. The rifles are not that different. Magnum Research imports were 1-12 , every Action Arms and Springfield import I have seen were 1-7 but anything could be out there.

[HCM]

There are a few videos out there of people trying to take weight off the ACE , they are taking off some of the changes and going back to the 1980s parts. The rifles are not that different. Magnum Research imports were 1-12 , every Action Arms and Springfield import I have seen were 1-7 but anything could be out there.

They are both AKs.

KNS sells a plastic delete kit for the ACE but it does not convert the gun back to the old parts or mags. That requires true custom work - cutting the old parts from kits and cutting /welding modifying the receiver and magwell of the new guns.

The old guns had forged trunnions. LAV has mentioned the new guns have cast trunnions and that he beloved it could be a durability concern long term.

[Patrick Taylor]

The ACE 21 uses the 35 round 5.56 mags and the ACE N-21 uses the nato mag , original mags will work depending on model and it does not require custom work. South Africa made some solid updates on their version also.

[Patrick Taylor]

The 7.62 nato Ace rifles use the original mags , the 7.62x39 rifles use AK mags and the only models that do not use the original 35 round mags and use nato 5.56 mags have an N in the model. There is a chart floating around the net with the info on it.

There are cast ARs , forged ARs , plastic ARs and machined billet AR receivers. Have you notified the manufacturers they are incorrectly naming their rifles?

[Patrick Taylor]

Probably tough to find right now but Silver Bear x39 ammo has a soft point load that I have been told expands well. If I purchase another Galil it will be a x39 rifle , there was also a x39 caliber made in the original version but do not think it was ever imported into the states.

[Greg Bell]

First 1000 rounds complete (I am actually nearing 1500, but I am behind on posting videos).


In this video I try to shoot some groups at 100 yards with hobby grade AK ammo to predicted results (It'll hit a paper plate!))

I test out WBP mags, Magpul Mags, Euro Mags, Etc. for basic functionality. They are all fine. The only two mags that ever resisted at all are the arsenal USA made 5 rounder and the Palm Banana mag. And they worked, you just have to wiggle them extra.

I talk about the need for a medium height mount for my Holosun. And I whine about not trusting chi-com sights because my other Holsun just went down.

Anyway, I am still shooting.

What do you think about me not cleaning it? Since I suspect it will take a lot longer to hit 10k given the current conditions (I have 4k of expendable 7,62x39) so there is a real chance we will hit 5k and then slow to a crawl. Maybe not cleaning it will add a little more fun to the test?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0dso-te2gY

[HCM]

The ACE 21 uses the 35 round 5.56 mags and the ACE N-21 uses the nato mag , original mags will work depending on model and it does not require custom work. South Africa made some solid updates on their version also.

The ACE 21 is not imported into the US so it’s irrelevant. If it’s even an actual production item.

The ACE N-21, the one which is imported to the US, does not take original Galil mags without custom work and parts from a original Galil kit. It can be done but it is a custom job not a bolt on proposition.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Nice work so far. A few comments/suggestions:

1. Would be nice to go over the rifle and its features a bit more. Personally I would like to know the OAL folded and unfolded, the weight, and see it field stripped.

2. Why not use the low holosun mount? The holosun rifle optics I have purchased include those in the box, and I think that will get you a much better cheek weld.

3. Please measure the groups when doing group testing, I would like to see the specifics, even if the group is 5".

4. Definitely interested to see how long it can go without cleaning.

[LOKNLOD]

The ACE 21 is not imported into the US so it’s irrelevant. If it’s even an actual production item.

The ACE N-21, the one which is imported to the US, does not take original Galil mags without custom work and parts from a original Galil kit. It can be done but it is a custom job not a bolt on proposition.

There are 500 of the ACE 21's with the real galil mag, at least:

https://www.deguns.net/iwi-galil-ace21-556-limited/p

[HCM]

There are 500 of the ACE 21's with the real galil mag, at least:

https://www.deguns.net/iwi-galil-ace21-556-limited/p

Explains why IWI suddenly started selling new Galil mags.

[Greg Bell]

Of course, I am an idiot and I bought one of the new Galil's with Rock n' Lock mags. One of these days I will shoot a few groups.



Explains why IWI suddenly started selling new Galil mags.

[Greg Bell]

Nice work so far. A few comments/suggestions:

1. Would be nice to go over the rifle and its features a bit more. Personally I would like to know the OAL folded and unfolded, the weight, and see it field stripped.

2. Why not use the low holosun mount? The holosun rifle optics I have purchased include those in the box, and I think that will get you a much better cheek weld.

3. Please measure the groups when doing group testing, I would like to see the specifics, even if the group is 5".

4. Definitely interested to see how long it can go without cleaning.

1. I will do all this in my next video. I am always wondering what the heck I am supposed to talk about next. LOL. So I will get all that data for you.

2. It's too low. Then the BUIS will be useless. I wish HOLOSUN would put a bunch of risers in the box Like Primary Arms.

3. I am putting in a better bench next week so I will do some definitive testing. I will throw up the measurements on the screen as suggested. I did it on my Zastava video but those groups were a crapload less depressing LOL

4. I may just shoot this thing dirty. I do think I should keep oiling it though.

[HCM]

Of course, I am an idiot and I bought one of the new Galil's with Rock n' Lock mags. One of these days I will shoot a few groups.

Could be worse, you could have spent hundreds of dollars on a parts kit and custom work only to have the factory release this.

[Greg Bell]

Hey guys,

I did some followup accuracy testing with bargain ammo ( 5 shot groups at 100 yards). Basically, with some ammo 3 inch groups were standard and Tula was significantly worse. I have had some folks suggested I shoot some "Lapua" ammo but I haven't seen it in years. At some point I need to try the S&B brass cased ammo.


https://youtu.be/gcpvE6_c6Ig

[HCM]

Hey guys,

I did some followup accuracy testing with bargain ammo ( 5 shot groups at 100 yards). Basically, with some ammo 3 inch groups were standard and Tula was significantly worse. I have had some folks suggested I shoot some "Lapua" ammo but I haven't seen it in years. At some point I need to try the S&B brass cased ammo.


https://youtu.be/gcpvE6_c6Ig

Hornady brass case is available and provides best accuracy in my CZ bolt gun.

[Greg Bell]

Hornady brass case is available and provides best accuracy in my CZ bolt gun.

I will try that next!