LAPD SIS, SWAT, 1911s, Gunsite, Point Shooting, Scott Reitz, John Helms

[Mark D]

Uncle Scotty's latest podcast has retired Detective John Helms as a guest. They talk about the early days of LAPD SWAT, SIS, the transition to 1911's ("grab a couple pistols out of a box of mismatched, seized guns"), the introduction of the Modern Technique into the department, and lots of other stuff. Well worth a listen.

ITTS Podcast: With Deadly Force (internationaltactical.com) (https://internationaltactical.com/podcast.html)

[Trooper224]

Nuggets, golden nuggets.

[TC215]

Listened a few nights ago and am looking forward to Part 2.

[Doc_Glock]

Uncle Scotty's latest podcast has retired Detective John Helms as a guest. They talk about the early days of LAPD SWAT, SIS, the transition to 1911's ("grab a couple pistols out of a box of mismatched, seized guns"), the introduction of the Modern Technique into the department, and lots of other stuff. Well worth a listen.

ITTS Podcast: With Deadly Force (internationaltactical.com) (https://internationaltactical.com/podcast.html)

I am glad he has new episodes. These are great.

[WobblyPossum]

I listened to it once last week and enjoyed it so much I’m listening to the episode again.

[MVS]

For anyone remotely interested in the modern history of gunfighting, this was fascinating. Can't wait to hear more (what he can get away with telling) about the SIS.

[Norville]

I am glad he has new episodes. These are great.

Agree, great stuff.

[Mark D]

For anyone remotely interested in the modern history of gunfighting, this was fascinating. Can't wait to hear more (what he can get away with telling) about the SIS.

Totally agree. This episode (and hopefully the next) seem tailormade for the P-F crowd. I enjoyed the whole thing, but especially liked the story about the "jungle trail" course of fire, and John being the only SWAT cop who hit the target at 50 feet with a M16, and that was because he was "cheating" and using his sights.

[Trooper224]

Their comments about the early days of SWAT are very familiar to me. We were in the same boat when my old agency stood up our tactical unit. There were many in the upper chain of command who were far from sold on the concept, so funds were extremely limited. Nearly all of our gear was cast off army surplus. The very first piece of equipment I was ever issued was a bayonet, of all things. I asked, " What kind of unit is this exactly?"

[Dave Williams]

I "think" (assume) he was talking about Wayne and DB when he mentioned being invited to instruct at a seminar, and listening to them separately on podcasts, and thinking he had nothing to add. If so, an awfully nice compliment.

Also, Helms posted a bit on the Smith and Wesson forum about SIS using the 4506, 4566, and 4516. A google search will pop it up for you if interested.

[Wayne Dobbs]

A couple of us got to spend time with Helms a few weeks ago. Astounding simplicity and focus on mindset would be the executive summary.

[John Hearne]

I loved it and listened twice in the same day, taking notes. Stuff that stood out:

26:00 - SIS had no faith in pistols to stop bad guys. Used shotgun when they need to confront a legit bad guy.
36:30 - “When they saw that you could use your sights rapidly and get much more consistent hits on a target at a variety of different distances, there wasn’t a problem with anybody buying into the program.”
45:55 - Importance of being open to discovery of better stuff.
49:20 - Support for private gun ownership.
52:00 - Current low bar to be a firearms instructor.
55:10 - Bolke & Dobbs?
58:20 - Learn how to strike and manipulate the body.
1:03:10 - Win via skill and composure.

[Trooper224]

A couple of us got to spend time with Helms a few weeks ago. Astounding simplicity and focus on mindset would be the executive summary.

If one can get past the gear hurdle, ie. stop fixating on the widgets, some things become obvious. Experienced men like Helms have realized widgets are a small part of the equation. Gunfighting is simple. It's ugly and violent, but it's not launching a rocket to Mars. The main hurdles involve things like committment and resolve. They happen between the ears and you can't buy them.

[TheNewbie]

Excellent interview and discussion.

[Hambo]

Scott Reitz: "It's amazing we survived." He was half joking, but the point for younger shooters is that back in the day, we got by with some pretty crude equipment and JHP that doen't meet current "best" standards.

[TC215]

These are Bolke's photos that he's posted on the forum before, but I figured this was a good place for them:


https://i.imgur.com/04YpKjJ.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/ri1ImxA.jpg

[Le Français]

26:00 - SIS had no faith in pistols to stop bad guys.

Specifically, he said they had no faith in their .38 Specials loaded with LRN ammo.

[okie john]

Totally agree. This episode (and hopefully the next) seem tailormade for the P-F crowd. I enjoyed the whole thing, but especially liked the story about the "jungle trail" course of fire, and John being the only SWAT cop who hit the target at 50 feet with a M16, and that was because he was "cheating" and using his sights.

Wait, am I the only guy here who has trained his children and relatives on jungle lanes?


Okie John

[Mark D]

Wait, am I the only guy here who has trained his children and relatives on jungle lanes?


Okie John

I don't think John or Scott had complaints about jungle lane training. It was more the fact that John Helm's team mates were discouraged from using their sights, and consequently there was a poor hit rate on the longer range target (50 feet).

I think Uncle Scotty's school has a "donga lane", although I haven't used it.

[TC215]

Part 2 is up.

[parishioner]

That was excellent. Thoroughly enjoyed it and left me wanting more. Those guys have my respect.

It got me wondering, I admittedly don’t know anything regarding the current LE landscape and the use of such tactics employed by units like SIS and was wondering how prevalent they remain. If I had to wager, considering the current political atmosphere, they are frowned upon despite seemingly being very effective. I hope I’m wrong.

[TC215]

That was excellent. Thoroughly enjoyed it and left me wanting more. Those guys have my respect.

It got me wondering, I admittedly don’t know anything regarding the current LE landscape and the use of such tactics employed by units like SIS and was wondering how prevalent they remain. If I had to wager, considering the current political atmosphere, they are frowned upon despite seemingly being very effective. I hope I’m wrong.

The techniques and tactics SIS uses have changed with the times. I'm sure they still do some of the "old school" stuff, but it's not like it once was. I don't really want to go into specifics on an open forum.

[TC215]

Also, since this is P-F…the pistols of choice for SIS these days are the G19 and G45. A lot of guys run G17’s with their raid gear. A few guys running Staccatos, and less than a handful carrying .45’s (which was an SIS staple for decades).

[parishioner]

The techniques and tactics SIS uses have changed with the times. I'm sure they still do some of the "old school" stuff, but it's not like it once was. I don't really want to go into specifics on an open forum.

No specifics needed or requested. Just a hopefulness that a mission set like that was still supported in necessary areas.

[Mark D]

Also, since this is P-F…the pistols of choice for SIS these days are the G19 and G45. A lot of guys run G17’s with their raid gear. A few guys running Staccatos, and less than a handful carrying .45’s (which was an SIS staple for decades).

Thanks, I was wondering about that. I seem to recall reading that the G30 variants were popular at one time, but I was curious if the unit had followed the broader trend towards 9mm. And it sounds like they have, mostly.