Dog time! My new Caucasian Ovcharka puppy!

[Mercworx]

Hi there,

Thought id share about my new Caucasian Ovcharka (Shepherd) puppy. We have had her about 6 weeks now.

When she arrived at 8 weeks old she was about 22lbs. Little over a month later and shes right around 45lbs. Hips appear to be developing well.

Initially I fed her a raw diet however after doing more research I decided to invest in a quality kibble and supplement her with cooked groundbeef. She also gets a large breed fish oil supplement, joint support vitamin and raw goats milk. After more research I may introduce Red Cell Canine to her as well.

Overall is progressing well. We went through great lengths to socialize her, even taking her downtown. We have eased up on that a bit and now take her to an outdoor cafe a couple times a week. Housetraining is progressing well.

https://i.imgur.com/n7M3tar.jpg

[Jim Watson]

Aren't Ovcharkas what Scott Horvath's agency hacker has for guard dogs?

[Sensei]

Yeah. Socialization is key for this bread. They can be high drive / aggressive which could be a disaster for a 100+ lb dog in a neighborhood. They also tend to be very loyal and protective. I had a distant family member with one. It was VERY weary of strangers…to the point that walks were a no go if lots of people or other dogs were present.

[Mercworx]

Yeah. Socialization is key for this bread. They can be high drive / aggressive which could be a disaster for a 100+ lb dog in a neighborhood. They also tend to be very loyal and protective. I had a distant family member with one. It was VERY weary of strangers…to the point that walks were a no go if lots of people or other dogs were present.



Yes absolutely. We hit the early socialization hard. Ive had previous large breed working dog experience but nothing exactly like this before. I first encountered the breed living abroad as a child where my friends family had one. They were originally from Georgia.

So far very pleased we her. She is a bit of a goof. We keep a close eye on her. Its worth noting I live in the mountains in a semi rural area and have a fully fenced property. Neighbor next door has a farm.


Aren't Ovcharkas what Scott Horvath's agency hacker has for guard dogs?


Not familiar with Horvath myself.

[JohnO]

Outstanding! She looks great. I would love to see pics as she matures. Keep up the socialization.

If you haven't already figured it out a Prong Collar is your friend. My female high drive GSD came home at 8 weeks wearing a prong collar and wears the same collar today with quite a few more links added. Buy the best. https://www.original-herm-sprenger-dog-collars.com/

If you have plans of getting her "fixed" make sure you allow her to fully mature with all her natural hormones. More and more it is being discovered that hip (and other) problems are the result of dogs getting spayed or neutered too early. A large breed like your girl will not fully be done maturing until 3 years. ~98% of what you see will happen much much earlier but that last ~2% lags behind.

[Mercworx]

Outstanding! She looks great. I would love to see pics as she matures. Keep up the socialization.

If you haven't already figured it out a Prong Collar is your friend. My female high drive GSD came home at 8 weeks wearing a prong collar and wears the same collar today with quite a few more links added. Buy the best. https://www.original-herm-sprenger-dog-collars.com/

If you have plans of getting her "fixed" make sure you allow her to fully mature with all her natural hormones. More and more it is being discovered that hip (and other) problems are the result of dogs getting spayed or neutered too early. A large breed like your girl will not fully be done maturing until 3 years. ~98% of what you see will happen much much earlier but that last ~2% lags behind.

Thank you for the info! I did not know that about the 3 year maturity mark. I was planning on fixing her at 2 years (beeder also had it in the contract) I noticed the vet seems to push it earlier but didnt seem to mind when I said not before 2 years. I will definitely look into this more. I appreciate it. I will snag one of those collars as well.

I will be happy to include updates as she grows! We are excited to have her and love her already. She does very well with my young daughter (10 months) although their interactions are brief and very closely monitored.

[JohnO]

I noticed the vet seems to push it earlier but didnt seem to mind when I said not before 2 years.

Revenue stream!

Regarding food. Mine love raw chicken. It's fun to listen to them crunch through the bones. Always fun to have someone over and give a dog a raw chicken leg quarter and watch the look on the guests face when they hear the bones getting chomped through. Depending on who it is I could say "Yup and they can do that to you arm or leg."

I get a 40 pound box of chicken backs for $22. I strip off the skin (too much fat) and freeze them in a dedicated freezer I have for the dogs raw. I get raw goats milk, Kefir, cottage cheese, plain yogurt as a treats. Natural (unbleached) green tripe is really nutritious and good for the gut. My two are spoiled.

[Mercworx]

Revenue stream!

Regarding food. Mine love raw chicken. It's fun to listen to them crunch through the bones. Always fun to have someone over and give a dog a raw chicken leg quarter and watch the look on the guests face when they hear the bones getting chomped through. Depending on who it is I could say "Yup and they can do that to you arm or leg."

I get a 40 pound box of chicken backs for $22. I strip off the skin (too much fat) and freeze them in a dedicated freezer I have for the dogs raw. I get raw goats milk, Kefir, cottage cheese, plain yogurt as a treats. Natural (unbleached) green tripe is really nutritious and good for the gut. My two are spoiled.

Oh definitely.


Id love to revisit the raw diet again. It was hard for me to manage at the time. I need a dedicated freezer for certain and then Id be open to it. Where do you get your trip from?

Never thought of kefir or cottage cheese either. How do you serve it to them?

[NEPAKevin]

Aren't Ovcharkas what Scott Horvath's agency hacker has for guard dogs?

Yes. Nicholas aka the Dwarf has two and in one book, Horvath had a puppy.

[Shotgun]

I thought it was fairly difficult to buy a pet bear.

[Mercworx]

Yes. Nicholas aka the Dwarf has two and in one book, Horvath had a puppy.

Holy cow now I remember, yep his puppy named Bullet. Believe he is introduced in the novel Takedown.



I thought it was fairly difficult to buy a pet bear.

Haha excellent avatar on this one. At 8 weeks a couple people did stop and ask "what is that a little bear" in jest. I thought she looked like a giant racoon at first.

[camel]

I thought it was fairly difficult to buy a pet bear.

I tought a chow chow was a bear until I saw one of these.
Raw diet is hard on the human. But good for the dog. So I understand

[Mercworx]

I tought a chow chow was a bear until I saw one of these.
Raw diet is hard on the human. But good for the dog. So I understand



I found it difficult to prepare but its due to a lack or equipment. She will end up eating about 5lbs a day. I needed a designated freezer set to an appropriate temperature. Was turning the bags of chicken leg quarters into frozen logs in my normal fridge. Many advocate giving them the food frozen as well to make them slow down even more. For me it added extra work that with mt current setup and schedule just did work well.

I want to do right by her so will probably revisit this soon maybe. She is on a high quality kibble with supplements as well.

[JohnO]

Where do you get your trip from?

Never thought of kefir or cottage cheese either. How do you serve it to them?

Local pet food store is a specialty shop. The owner Nicci is a nutritionist who consults for Military and Police K9s. https://northpointpets.com/. (Explore the website) Nicci is an excellent resource. My male GSD did damage to himself by chewing on his paws. He really tore up his pads. It was bad enough that he was limping for days. The vet said it must be a food allergy and wanted to start him on a prescription diet they sell. Nicki told me vets commonly overlook a fungal infection of the paws. Nicci told me to get this https://www.chewy.com/durvet-chlorhexidine-solution-horse/dp/139642. You mix 1 oz. per 1 gallon of water. I put some in a spray bottle and sprayed my dogs paws. Problem solved. For ~$20 I think every dog owner should have a bottle on hand. There are many uses, cuts, scrapes and hot spots spray them. It can be added to dog shampoo and now you have the expensive stuff with Chlorohexidine Gluconate without the big price tag. I spray on my tile floor for wet mopping. Caution beware of what you use on floors for how it can adversely effect dogs paws. Swiffer Wet Jet is a know problem.

The local shop will have a couple choices in frozen green tripe. You can look for a Coop local to you that puts in one large order and everyone picks up once a month. I'm part of one that distributes https://blueridgebeef.com/ Then there is https://rawganicspetfood.com/. Local shop carries it and they sell direct from their farm in NY.

Some places I've heard of but haven't personally used.
https://www.rawdogfoodwholesale.com/distributors/
https://raawenergy.com/

Regarding the kefir and cottage cheese it usually is a before bed snack. I just put some in a bowl for each dog. It's become such a habit for them they start bugging me when it's getting late in the evening.

[Robert Mitchum]

Good dogs I had one and a Kangal ..both where big and not the dogs you would go up and pet.
The Caucasian did very well at bite work but Kangal's should not be trained in protection work.

I never let anyone pet my dogs .. I take them all over ..the only ones allowed to touch my dogs are the Vets office.
If you have kids you must teach your dog that the kids from next door are no threat when they play rough.
Good luck !!! nice looking pup !!!!!

[Mercworx]

Local pet food store is a specialty shop. The owner Nicci is a nutritionist who consults for Military and Police K9s. https://northpointpets.com/. (Explore the website) Nicci is an excellent resource. My male GSD did damage to himself by chewing on his paws. He really tore up his pads. It was bad enough that he was limping for days. The vet said it must be a food allergy and wanted to start him on a prescription diet they sell. Nicki told me vets commonly overlook a fungal infection of the paws. Nicci told me to get this https://www.chewy.com/durvet-chlorhexidine-solution-horse/dp/139642. You mix 1 oz. per 1 gallon of water. I put some in a spray bottle and sprayed my dogs paws. Problem solved. For ~$20 I think every dog owner should have a bottle on hand. There are many uses, cuts, scrapes and hot spots spray them. It can be added to dog shampoo and now you have the expensive stuff with Chlorohexidine Gluconate without the big price tag. I spray on my tile floor for wet mopping. Caution beware of what you use on floors for how it can adversely effect dogs paws. Swiffer Wet Jet is a know problem.

The local shop will have a couple choices in frozen green tripe. You can look for a Coop local to you that puts in one large order and everyone picks up once a month. I'm part of one that distributes https://blueridgebeef.com/ Then there is https://rawganicspetfood.com/. Local shop carries it and they sell direct from their farm in NY.

Some places I've heard of but haven't personally used.
https://www.rawdogfoodwholesale.com/distributors/
https://raawenergy.com/

Regarding the kefir and cottage cheese it usually is a before bed snack. I just put some in a bowl for each dog. It's become such a habit for them they start bugging me when it's getting late in the evening.

Wow, thank you for taking the time to share these resources with me! I will be ordering the anti bacterial agent today along with a spray bottle. Never thought about what we use on our floors either. Good info.

I'm really enjoying having her with us. So far a wonderful dog.


Good dogs I had one and a Kangal ..both where big and not the dogs you would go up and pet.
The Caucasian did very well at bite work but Kangal's should not be trained in protection work.

I never let anyone pet my dogs .. I take them all over ..the only ones allowed to touch my dogs are the Vets office.
If you have kids you must teach your dog that the kids from next door are no threat when they play rough.
Good luck !!! nice looking pup !!!!!


Thank you!

Thats really cool, thank you for sharing. Kangals look like fantastic dogs as well but I heard they are true livestock guardians and dislike much else.

We have pulled back on letting strangers pet her now.

[NEPAKevin]

Never thought about what we use on our floors either. Good info.





Same thing outside with fertilizers and pesticides. A friend had his Corgi get really sick IIRC from something his landscaping guy used.

[Willard]

...but Kangal's should not be trained in protection work.

Interested to hear more on this if you're so inclined. Thanks.

[JohnO]

Interested to hear more on this if you're so inclined. Thanks.

https://www.kangaldogamerica.com/kangal-dog-not-as-a-protection-dog

[Flamingo]

After looking at the link about Kangal Dogs I realized I had one when I was in Afghanistan. I was part of a small group working separate from regular forces (our 11B platoon(-) never wore uniforms). The guards wanted a dog and we needed to test a source so we combined the two and sent one of the sources up to Nuristan to get a dog for us and he brought back this puppy:

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We named him Tailbander

He was covered in ticks, and the MWD vet wasn't too happy about treating him, but we got him all taken care of. I made sure that the guards raised enough money to send home. If they didn't I was going to have to put him down... Afghans just don't treat dogs like we do.

We rescued a cat as well. He is living in a Fisher house in San Antonio. That poor cat got raped by the ANAs monkey. I really don't like monkeys.

[Mercworx]

https://www.kangaldogamerica.com/kangal-dog-not-as-a-protection-dog



Very interesting. I know of a few Kangal and Turkish Boz breeders in the US. All own large farms and wont sell to non farmers. There was some debate in the Caucasian Ovcharka community about the breeds modern origins. The consensus seems to be that while they are heavily derived from the Caucasian Livestock Gaurdian Breeds they themselves are a separate selectively bred dog. The Soviets used them for police and prison work as well as guarding the Berlin Wall.

However I struggle to see how. They seem extremely headstrong and independent like other livestock guardian breeds. I researched the breed for years prior to getting one and nearly went with a Dogo or Central Asian. I think I made the right choice and didnt have expectations of IPO type certs like with my GSD.


Fun fact apparently the Soviets bred Caucasians to Newfoundlands in the hopes of making a tougher water rescue dog. They called it the "Moscow Diver". They ended up scrapping the program because allegedly the dogs were more likely to swim out to those in need of rescue and savage them rather than save them! Lol


Same thing outside with fertilizers and pesticides. A friend had his Corgi get really sick IIRC from something his landscaping guy used.

Fortunately we have moved away from that. We have very nice neighbors who own an organic farm and politely requested we obstain from spraying. We honor this. They have excellent produce.


Edit: Just purchased $80 worth of "tactical" styled dog gear from Chewy. All in Ranger Green. Yes I am that lame.

[JohnO]

Edit: Just purchased $80 worth of "tactical" styled dog gear from Chewy. All in Ranger Green. Yes I am that lame.

I've made my fair share of purchases from Chewy.

These places also:
https://www.rayallen.com/
https://leerburg.com/ <-- Their Amish leather leashes are outstanding.
https://store.sportdog.com/locator-beacon <-- Night Ops: AKA walks and activities after dark.

[DC_P]

Aren't Ovcharkas what Scott Horvath's agency hacker has for guard dogs?

This was the only place I had heard of them too. The book describes them as very trainable, loyal, and huge.

Unfortunately, it is 2021, so I find the name racist and I am offended...

[Mercworx]

This was the only place I had heard of them too. The book describes them as very trainable, loyal, and huge.

Unfortunately, it is 2021, so I find the name racist and I am offended...

Makes me want to revisit the books actually. Also maybe its just in my head but when we would take her out to socialize her I felt an intial weird stare when stating her breed. Id quickly give the geography lesson and people seem to understand. Ive taken to calling her by one of their informal titles (Russian Mountain Dog) and it raises no eyebrows.


I've made my fair share of purchases from Chewy.

These places also:
https://www.rayallen.com/
https://leerburg.com/ <-- Their Amish leather leashes are outstanding.
https://store.sportdog.com/locator-beacon <-- Night Ops: AKA walks and activities after dark.

I will check them out! I would like a nicer leash and collar for her. Thank you.

I will drop in a few more pics today.

[Mercworx]

A few additional pics. Having to resize some of them so hopefully there is no issue.

I purhcased the Durvet Chlorhexidine Solution recommended to me by JohnO as well as an Amish Leather Padded Collar for her. Looks very sharp.



https://i.imgur.com/d6nal9V.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/1IQSp7B.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/j9N9HcD.jpg

[Robert Mitchum]

Wow, thank you for taking the time to share these resources with me! I will be ordering the anti bacterial agent today along with a spray bottle. Never thought about what we use on our floors either. Good info.

I'm really enjoying having her with us. So far a wonderful dog.




Thank you!

Thats really cool, thank you for sharing. Kangals look like fantastic dogs as well but I heard they are true livestock guardians and dislike much else.

We have pulled back on letting strangers pet her now.

They are killing machines from good working lines .. I also had an Anatolian Shepperd which some say are the same dogs.
My Anatolian was a very tall dog and was the alpha over my Bandogs ,.. he killed a few Coyotes like they where toys.



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I now have Perro de Presa Canario dogs ..my youngest one just turned a year old .. he is 150 pounds and 29" at the withers.
They are also Farm dogs that will do very well at protection work. They are not a good choice for first time dog owners JMO.
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I am getting a Pup from a freaky breeding ..this is the Male that will be the Sire ..he is 171 pounds of freak.
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[Robert Mitchum]

A few additional pics. Having to resize some of them so hopefully there is no issue.

I purhcased the Durvet Chlorhexidine Solution recommended to me by JohnO as well as an Amish Leather Padded Collar for her. Looks very sharp.



https://i.imgur.com/d6nal9V.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/1IQSp7B.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/j9N9HcD.jpg

You are going to be very happy !!! they are awesome dogs !!!

[Robert Mitchum]

Thank you!

Thats really cool, thank you for sharing. Kangals look like fantastic dogs as well but I heard they are true livestock guardians and dislike much else.

We have pulled back on letting strangers pet her now.[/QUOTE]

Smart move ..you never know when some A hole is going to rough house or do some thing stupid.
Kids have a bad habit of pulling ears or poking eyes ..
Other dogs is also a no no in my book ..if your pup gets bite by another dog they might wind up being aggressive towards dogs.
If you trust the other dog than play time can be fun.

[Latka Gravas]

Aren't Ovcharkas what Scott Horvath's agency hacker has for guard dogs?

The "Troll" Nicholas gave him a puppy Caucasian Ovcharka, after Scott saved one of his, after it got shot. Scott named his Bullet, after a friend who got killed in the NYC attack.

Nicholas is no a good guy and "the old man" even allowed at work with him. Arcos and Dracos are the dogs names, if my memory serves......

[Mercworx]

They are killing machines from good working lines .. I also had an Anatolian Shepperd which some say are the same dogs.
My Anatolian was a very tall dog and was the alpha over my Bandogs ,.. he killed a few Coyotes like they where toys.



75258

I now have Perro de Presa Canario dogs ..my youngest one just turned a year old .. he is 150 pounds and 29" at the withers.
They are also Farm dogs that will do very well at protection work. They are not a good choice for first time dog owners JMO.
75259

I am getting a Pup from a freaky breeding ..this is the Male that will be the Sire ..he is 171 pounds of freak.
75260

Thank you for sharing those pictures. Your Presa looks great. I looked at them briefly (owned Game Bred American Pitbulls Terriers in the past). I felt the Presas drive and power wasn't the best fit for me at this time. Same reason I ended up steering away from the Dogo Argentino (despite it being my first choice). Caucasians are known to be relatively lower energy in most situations which I think was better for my family.

I also owned a Rottie (non working lines) and a West German GSD. Almost got a working line GSD this time around from Coldwater Kennels in NC but again the hyper drive turned me away. Just thought it be too much with a young child as well. I find myself drawn to the Jadgterrier for my next dog but have heard if you dont hunt to not even bother. I know some people successfully keep Patterdales as strictly pets but work/excerise them daily.

Not sure what the next addition will be.

I had heard that about Anatolians and Kangals. Apparently the AKC now recognizes them as the same breed. My understanding is in Turkey they are very dependent upon which region they arrive from. Seems to me the Turkish Boz is no different than a Sivas Kangal save for appearing larger

That final picture is incredible. Is that also a Presa? Or is it a XL Bully?

[UNM1136]

Second Leerburg's Amish Leashes. Also they make replacement leather thongs for the "ball on a rope" toys that are much easier to hang onto than any rope on any ball, even the ones with the T-handle.

They are also the source for Michael Ellis' dog training videos. Those are my current go-to.

pat

[Robert Mitchum]

Thank you for sharing those pictures. Your Presa looks great. I looked at them briefly (owned Game Bred American Pitbulls Terriers in the past). I felt the Presas drive and power wasn't the best fit for me at this time. Same reason I ended up steering away from the Dogo Argentino (despite it being my first choice). Caucasians are known to be relatively lower energy in most situations which I think was better for my family.

I also owned a Rottie (non working lines) and a West German GSD. Almost got a working line GSD this time around from Coldwater Kennels in NC but again the hyper drive turned me away. Just thought it be too much with a young child as well. I find myself drawn to the Jadgterrier for my next dog but have heard if you dont hunt to not even bother. I know some people successfully keep Patterdales as strictly pets but work/excerise them daily.

Not sure what the next addition will be.

I had heard that about Anatolians and Kangals. Apparently the AKC now recognizes them as the same breed. My understanding is in Turkey they are very dependent upon which region they arrive from. Seems to me the Turkish Boz is no different than a Sivas Kangal save for appearing larger

That final picture is incredible. Is that also a Presa? Or is it a XL Bully?

57.5 % bulldog & 42.5 %mastiff cross by crossing three different European Mastiffs with three types of bulldogs, then keeping only the best for this selective breeding program .
A good Friend who breeds some real Monster is doing a few breeding's with his females and this male from another guys program. They are not backyard breeders ..they do a lot of testing before any breeding's.
They PennHIP:
OFA Elbows:
No Radiographic Evidence of DJD
Genetic DNA Test


My Son has a Game Bred American Pitbull ..
Patterdales are awesome !! All of the Bandog guys I use to hang with loved those little guys serious dogs for sure !!!!!.
My Wife wanted nothing to do with Presas .. she now loves the breed they are just like the Bandogs we had very loving to family.
They can be head strong ..they will eat a cat so we let him know the cat is not his next meal.
Thanks for putting a smile on my face talking about dogs ..

[Crawls]

...
Patterdales are awesome !! ...

Sorry for the thread drift, but you grabbed my attention. What can you tell me about Patterdales? Super interested.

OP, awesome pup. I love seeing breeds that haven't yet been corrupted by the AKC show world.

[Shotgun]

Mercworx in a year and a half.

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2016/01/15/12/dan2.jpg?width=982&height=726

[MistWolf]

Mine love raw chicken. It's fun to listen to them crunch through the bones. Always fun to have someone over and give a dog a raw chicken leg quarter and watch the look on the guests face when they hear the bones getting chomped through...

My mother had a St. Bernard when I was growing up. He'd sit down with a large hambone and chew it into small pieces in about a half hour. The cracked bones sounded like pistol shots in his jaws.

[Robert Mitchum]

Sorry for the thread drift, but you grabbed my attention. What can you tell me about Patterdales? Super interested.

OP, awesome pup. I love seeing breeds that haven't yet been corrupted by the AKC show world.

Mario from Thunderdome bandogs had a few of them years ago we did some bite work with them.
He also had some Bull Terriers from Germany that where also serious little dogs.



https://youtu.be/MwaGc8n05MA
https://youtu.be/67KRKGjBarw
https://youtu.be/zjdAvVkWed4
https://youtu.be/dxVLZyWbpnI

[Robert Mitchum]

Sorry for the thread drift, but you grabbed my attention. What can you tell me about Patterdales? Super interested.

OP, awesome pup. I love seeing breeds that haven't yet been corrupted by the AKC show world.
Mercworx Sorry for the thread drift ..

I cannot find the Patterdales but this is the first time he worked the Bull Terriers .. long time ago.

https://youtu.be/b6jfxB9OgX8

[Crawls]

Mario from Thunderdome bandogs had a few of them years ago we did some bite work with them.
He also had some Bull Terriers from Germany that where also serious little dogs.



Thanks for the Patterdale video links.

As to Bull Terriers - I've been there, done that, got the stitches. Not happening again anytime soon. My sample of one that we adopted at 12 months old had more health and aggression issues than I have time to type. I will add though, that watching how easily this seemingly uncoordinated little 38 lb Bull Terrier bowled over and manhandled an athletic GSD twice his weight left me with a tremendous respect for the engineering that goes into a fighting dog's genetics. The GSD simply had no counter to the compact build and low center of gravity.

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75529

[Baldanders]

Hi, my name's Flora and we are just about the same age!

I am well socialized.

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[QUOTE=Mercworx;1250259


Initially I fed her a raw diet however after doing more research I decided to invest in a quality kibble and supplement her with cooked groundbeef. She also gets a large breed fish oil supplement, joint support vitamin and raw goats milk. After more research I may introduce Red Cell Canine to her as well.
[/QUOTE]

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I like Wegmans mixed fruit yogurt. Coconut and Lime are the best. But it gives me yogurtface.

[Mercworx]

Hi, my name's Flora and we are just about the same age!

I am well socialized.

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75562

I like Wegmans mixed fruit yogurt. Coconut and Lime are the best. But it gives me yogurtface.



Dangerously cute dog.





Sorry for delay I welcomed a son in September and got a little busy. I may edit this post as more comes to me.


7 month update:

Our girl will be turning 8 months soon actually. A couple weeks back I took her to the vet to get her weight in order to get her new flea and tick medicine. She came in right around 101lbs. She is very health.

As previously discussed I transitioned off of a raw diet and onto high quality kibble. We supplemented her with cooked ground beef, eggs, and thanks to some recommendations on here low fat plain Greek yogurt and cottage cheese. She also gets a green tripe patty weekly. Additionally I typically give her raw goats milk and some berries with breakfast. I have given her the occasional raw turkey neck but didn’t want to keep introducing raw too often (although I have heard this is actually fine?). She gets a glucosamine supplement and fish oil as well.

Training is going well. She is pig headed and like a typical LSG breed she “sort of listens” but she is very good about “Leave it, sit & stay” she is also great with “place” and will head into her crate. Recall is tough but she does it. Unfortunately I don’t think she would recall properly if there was something truly catching her attention.

Leash work is ok. She pulls a bit and gets excited. I told my wife not to walk her for now and that I would do it. I give her a short walk in the morning and then after work. Maybe a quarter mile total for each. I was told to go easy on her as she grows. I’m going to invest in one of those chase toys that come on a long string to help exercise her a bit more

Gear wise I am in the processing of ordering some of the collars posted here. I waited a bit as I didn’t want to invest into something she would rapidly grow out of. For now I have her in a recycle dog collar (made from used seatbelt) I got from a specialty pet store here locally. It has a mental seatbelt style securing mechanism. She could undoubtably break the standard plastic collars without even trying. I did order the herm sprenger JohnO recommended. I also got some of the Durvet Chloroxidine and have treated her paws a couple times. I was able to take her to the speciality pet store and rent the dog washing station there. I think I’m probably not going to be able to continue doing that her soon and will need to get some equipment for the home.

Around 5 months we allowed her to sleep outside her crate but secured in the kitchen area. She does well and didn’t cause any issues. She has had a couple legitimate accidents that were both 100% my fault. We trained her to ring a lanyard of bells attached to the doorknob when she wants to go out and on both occasions I knew she had gone out recently and assumed she was goofing off. Poor girl. Now I always get up and let her out even if she went out recently.

Behavior wise she is EXCELLENT with our young daughter. Though they are never left unsupervised we are very impressed with her. Our daughter can remove chew toys directly from her mouth with no objection (we are extremely
close by). For being so large she is careful to not knock our daughter over however she does get excited from time to time and licks her too much etc.

Protection wise, oh boy. Well she barks at everything. I mean I suppose I saw this coming but in actuality it’s a bit different. She has stopped barking at the immediate neighbors dog and livestock. Though she charges the fence if they bark at her. She is extremely wary of stranger but quick to pick up on our energy. My wife had family visit and the puppy was mostly ok with it. On the other hand a man came to replace our dishwasher a month ago and our girl was secured on the other side of the baby gate with my wife and kids watching this man intently. My wife said every time he reached in his toolkit she would growl. I would describe her as “balanced” for the breed. Funnily
enough she is basically exactly what we asked the breeder for. I asked for the most laid back one of the litter who would be great with kids and watchful of people. My thought process was if she is so reactive that my wife has to secure her in the back room when a maintenance man comes over then she would be of no help should the maintenance man turn out to be a weirdo. If someone does approach the house without myself or wife greeting them then she does respond pretty aggressively until she picks up on our energy.

Socialization has pretty much stopped as she won’t allow strange people to pet her anyways. Plus per the recommendations on here I decided we had done enough and now don’t let people approach her. I guess overall I would describe her as very obviously “not friendly” towards strangers but not necessarily aggressive.

I put down a deposit for first pick male from another breeder for this coming year.

Most of these are about a month or more
Old. I don’t have recent ones with just her in them but I will take some soon.

https://i.imgur.com/PBZldyc.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/1JzwwwR.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Lns83ZV.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/h2XwnX0.jpg


Mercworx in a year and a half.

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2016/01/15/12/dan2.jpg?width=982&height=726


Lol you’re not kidding we are almost there now.


Mercworx Sorry for the thread drift ..

I cannot find the Patterdales but this is the first time he worked the Bull Terriers .. long time ago.

https://youtu.be/b6jfxB9OgX8

Feel free to let it drift wherever the wind blows it. Love talking about dogs in general. I must say I’m sorry everyone I didn’t realize the conversation had kept going and then I got a little busy.

I almost bought a Patterdale years back but I don’t hunt and it seemed like the wrong dog for me at the time. Also looked at Jagterriers.

[UNM1136]

May I humbly recommend a Herm Springer prong collar and two videos:

https://leerburg.com/training-with-food.htm

https://leerburg.com/LeashSkillswithEllisDVD.htm

The videos are pricey, and you can stream them for less. I have both and recommend them to pet owners all the time.

They are great for dogs that like food and like to pull on the leash...

pat

[Mercworx]

May I humbly recommend a Herm Springer prong collar and two videos:

https://leerburg.com/training-with-food.htm

https://leerburg.com/LeashSkillswithEllisDVD.htm

The videos are pricey, and you can stream them for less. I have both and recommend them to pet owners all the time.

They are great for dogs that like food and like to pull on the leash...

pat

Absolutely thank you for your recommendation I actually did pick a prong collar up just recently. Working great so far.

I have saved those links and will use them asap, definitely something I want to work on with her. Thanks again.

Edit: I see I need to order the DVD and will do so.

[JohnO]

https://i.imgur.com/h2XwnX0.jpg



Great looking girl! I saw you mention the Herm Springer collar. Keep in mind you can add additional links if the collar becomes too small. Also you may want to add what some refer to as a Dominate Dog Collar, basically a backup if the Prong collar fails. https://leerburg.com/746.htm?set=1. FYI.

I have never had a prong collar come apart except for the time my wife put it on the dog incorrectly. The links were not assembled properly. I worked with a trainer who would make a field expedient back up collar with 550 cord for his clients.

You said that you have a deposit down for a male in a future litter. I did the same when my female GSD was a little over 1 year old. Guess what it isn't 2X the work, it's like kids, it's 4X the work. But I love every minute of it!

I'm using "The Boss" from Educator Collars. https://www.educatorcollars.com/educator-et-800-the-boss.html I have a 2nd collar and the remote can be programed to control 2 collars. I use the collar as a off leash backup. I let the dogs free run in the woods but with the e-collar I have recourse if they won't respond to a recall. They have finally learned to stay away from skunks. They will go after deer but will come on recall. Where they absolutely lose control are coyotes. We spotted a coyote last night our before bed neighborhood patrol. On a scale of 1 to 10 they were jacked up to about a 199. They were both pulling into their prong collars to where I needed to give them corrections with the e-collars or my arm was going to get torn out of the socket. Combined they have about 20 pounds on me and 8 legs vs. my 2. I learned long ago never take them out together on flat collars. I got launched through the air and dragged till they got to what they were after.

[UNM1136]

I never used a Dominant Dog collar, but I believe it is a Leerburg invention, and like it in theory. For a large dog who can be hard headed I would use one. My mal's dog aggressivness recently ramped up, and I don't know why. I may have to go old school with the e-collar and do some "crittering" to teach him how to ignore other dogs.

Anyway the food video focuses on building a relationship with the dog using food and clear, consistent communication to teach. Luring and shaping behaviors are gone over.

The Leash Skills video was one that I initially rolled my eyes at, but was very impressed with. It teaches using a prong collar and leash to communicate with the dog. Literally you are trying to teach the dog to follow leash pressure, and eventually the dog associates the input from the prong collar as "Hey! Pay attention! Dad wants to tell us something."

The Power of Playing Tug with your Dog is another good one. I also have Training the Recall and Training the Retrieve.

pat

[UNM1136]

Our Schutzhund club was pretty diverse. Mastiffs, Pits, and Jagdterriers, and the usual GSDs, Mals, and Dutchies.

pat

[JohnO]

I never used a Dominant Dog collar, but I believe it is a Leerburg invention, and like it in theory. For a large dog who can be hard headed I would use one. My mal's dog aggressivness recently ramped up, and I don't know why. I may have to go old school with the e-collar and do some "crittering" to teach him how to ignore other dogs.

Anyway the food video focuses on building a relationship with the dog using food and clear, consistent communication to teach. Luring and shaping behaviors are gone over.

The Leash Skills video was one that I initially rolled my eyes at, but was very impressed with. It teaches using a prong collar and leash to communicate with the dog. Literally you are trying to teach the dog to follow leash pressure, and eventually the dog associates the input from the prong collar as "Hey! Pay attention! Dad wants to tell us something."

The Power of Playing Tug with your Dog is another good one. I also have Training the Recall and Training the Retrieve.

pat

I have a few of the Michael Ellis videos and think they are a great resource. I would love the opportunity to train with him in person.

One of the things I did with my dogs from day one was crate them at night next to my bed. I even put something under the crate to raise it so they had a direct eyeline to me at night. I believe this both comforted them and built a tight bond. To this day my wife is jealous of how the dogs ignore her when I am around. My wife will say, "look at that, you move and their eyes follow you everywhere."

Right from the beginning I did a lot of recall work with the dogs (and still do) with both food rewards and plenty of praise. I want them to know that coming to me is always a good and pleasurable thing. People have seen my dogs go after something and reverse course on a dime and come to me when I call them. Those folks will often comment on how well trained they are. However I will always equate the dogs to lightning in a jar and say you never know when the lid may pop off. As I mentioned in a previous post coyotes and also fox really jack the dogs up to the point that they appear to lose control. I really wonder what it is or if it has something to do with being the same species?

[JohnO]

Our Schutzhund club was pretty diverse. Mastiffs, Pits, and Jagdterriers, and the usual GSDs, Mals, and Dutchies.

pat

I worked with a group and trainer who were very GSD centric. The trainer was the local go to guy for serious people. He is a former Air Force dog handler and more than 50% of his clients have GSDs. Saturday mornings he holds a Distraction Class where all his clients who have achieved the proper control can attend. The class is held near a relatively busy road and the trainer will frequently say the people driving by only see the German Shepherd Dogs. He handled GSDs in the Air Force, breed them and has a GSD (IGP2 titled).

I thought it interesting when I first got involved with this group that when ever a Belgian Mal was mentioned there was a collective sigh from the GSD people. Many GSD people apparently think the Mal is undesirable? I would not mind having a high energy Mal. I have a buddy with 2 outstanding Mals along with a Brittany & a Lab. They all are getting along great thanks to his diligence. P.S. Those Mals are machines! He is one of the safest individuals on the planet. ;)

[UNM1136]

I fell for the mal rap for a while, too. Just like inbreeding GSDs causes hip problems, mals get nuerological issues. And frequently the nerviness is mistaken for high drive.

A lot of mal guys look for those traits. My mal was picked by me from the litter. He was the runt, and I gave him his first round of puppy shots. All the other pups shied away after I jabbed them, and he had no attitude change. He tried to climb my shirt and lick my face. I started working with the litter at 3 weeks old, before their eyes opened, doing environmental desensitization.

At 8 weeks he came home to rules to live by in the hose. At two he was as laid back as my buddies 6 year old GSD working dog.

Our club training director is very GSD oriented, using his working dog to compete in the Bundesieger(?sp?)
But he likes good dogs. He had a mal until an agency down south ruined their dog and needed one ASAP.

And to answer your question about coyotes, it could be anything. Every dog has some wierd "flip the f- out switch" that gets hit. We washed out a promising 13 month old GSD bitch because shiny floors freaked her out. My dog gets so driven he has to hump protection equipment on the out. For a long time he had to be lifted off the sleeve. One dog laid flat on his belly to pee.

If you have a place where you can count on seeing coyotes (or a dog park where a friend has a coyote looking dog on one side of the fence) you can try crittering. It is old school, can be abusive if done wrong, and is what I consider a last resort. Walk the dog on lead and when they see the coyote any reaction of more than the eyes results in a solid, interrupting shock. 100 yards away is a good distance to start at. If you start too close the dog may associate the correction with the other animal hurting him. See coyote, head turns, strong zap. 90 yards away, see animal, any reaction beyond eyeballs gets a strong zap. Closer and closer. Done properly the dog will notice without reacting.

This is not how I use an Ecollar 95+% of the time.

I would love to have my dog have this much self control...


https://youtu.be/nHZYp2lCNjw

pat

[JohnO]

My friends Mals are both dogs that were returned to the breeder. The first a male was too much to handle for the initial owner. My buddy squared that dog away. Initially everyone in his training group was deathly afraid of the dog. They thought him a lose cannon with a tremendously powerful bite. This while working with a trainer who breeds Mals, Dutch Shepherds and trains NYPD K-9 and his group.

The trainer was very impressed with how my friend brought his Mal around to controllable dog. One day a year or so into working with his trainer my buddy was asked by the trainer/breeder to help with a dog. Eight months earlier the trainer had sold the pick of a special litter (two top KNPV titled Mals chosen and specifically breed together) to an individual who promised to do right by this female dog. The owner neglected the dog. She lived in a crate and was never housebroken trained or cared for. The dog came back to the trainer/breeder.

My buddy was approached by the trainer told about this poor neglected dog on a weekend open class with a group. The trainer asked my buddy if he would work the dog some that day because he was impressed with how he turned his Mal around. After working with this lovely female Mal the trainer said to my friend, "if you want her she is yours!". He couldn't say no and that's how he has two Mals now. And he has turned that girl into a great dog. It was lots of work due to the neglect the poor girl experienced. Plus the trainer/breeder told him if you take her and give her a good home he can come for all the training gratis. Given the pedigree that dog has she must have sold for a pretty penny.

[JohnO]

And to answer your question about coyotes, it could be anything. Every dog has some wierd "flip the f- out switch" that gets hit. We washed out a promising 13 month old GSD bitch because shiny floors freaked her out. My dog gets so driven he has to hump protection equipment on the out. For a long time he had to be lifted off the sleeve. One dog laid flat on his belly to pee.

If you have a place where you can count on seeing coyotes (or a dog park where a friend has a coyote looking dog on one side of the fence) you can try crittering. It is old school, can be abusive if done wrong, and is what I consider a last resort. Walk the dog on lead and when they see the coyote any reaction of more than the eyes results in a solid, interrupting shock. 100 yards away is a good distance to start at. If you start too close the dog may associate the correction with the other animal hurting him. See coyote, head turns, strong zap. 90 yards away, see animal, any reaction beyond eyeballs gets a strong zap. Closer and closer. Done properly the dog will notice without reacting.

This is not how I use an Ecollar 95+% of the time.

I would love to have my dog have this much self control...


https://youtu.be/nHZYp2lCNjw

pat

I do the dog park thing just like Ellis. I love that video and that's what gave me the idea. My results are not quite on the Ellis level.

Regarding the crittering. The dog park or appearances just won't cut it. It is 100% scent! Many times I will spot the coyote because my eyes are 3-4 feet higher or the dogs are not looking that way. But when they detect the scent, Holy Cow!! It's off to the races. It has happened enough times where I saw the Yote & they didn't. Then they smelled it and that's how I know. I'll see a coyote on the edge of a field in the distance. The dogs don't have a line of sight to it. But I know depending upon the wind direction what is about to happen. Their noses go up as does the hair on their spine. You can see the direction finder calculating. Then they are after the scent.

[UNM1136]

I do the dog park thing just like Ellis. I love that video and that's what gave me the idea. My results are not quite on the Ellis level.

Regarding the crittering. The dog park or appearances just won't cut it. It is 100% scent! Many times I will spot the coyote because my eyes are 3-4 feet higher or the dogs are not looking that way. But when they detect the scent, Holy Cow!! It's off to the races. It has happened enough times where I saw the Yote & they didn't. Then they smelled it and that's how I know. I'll see a coyote on the edge of a field in the distance. The dogs don't have a line of sight to it. But I know depending upon the wind direction what is about to happen. Their noses go up as does the hair on their spine. You can see the direction finder calculating. Then they are after the scent.

Gotcha. I am always fascinated to watch a dog work a scent cone. I dunno why you dogs flip out with coyotes. Could be anything, or nothing at all. My dog doesn't like to go out while the neighbors are launching (illegal) fireworks. He will, but it takes some coaxing. He doesn't mind a day at the range shooting 9mm, .45 or 5.56 unsuppressed.

Maybe find coyote scent for hunting and trapping and preposition it near your walk and correct the dogs off the scent. Strong ecollar/leash and prong corrections until the dog is paying attention to you then tug/feed depending on your preferred reward to reinforce the focusing on you. Keep them from getting close enough to realize they are being set up.

Dunno. Maybe @Coyotes97fan can help...

pat

[Mercworx]

JohnO & UNM1136 thank you both for the guidance and discussion. I ordered additional links for the collar and a dominant dog collar as well. Looking forward to more leash time with her.

Walked this morning and hitting another walk today after work. Also looking to get a flirt pole to exercise her a bit more and for times when a longer walk isn’t possible. Wish they made flirt poles with a longer lead.



My friends Mals are both dogs that were returned to the breeder. The first a male was too much to handle for the initial owner. My buddy squared that dog away. Initially everyone in his training group was deathly afraid of the dog. They thought him a lose cannon with a tremendously powerful bite. This while working with a trainer who breeds Mals, Dutch Shepherds and trains NYPD K-9 and his group.

The trainer was very impressed with how my friend brought his Mal around to controllable dog. One day a year or so into working with his trainer my buddy was asked by the trainer/breeder to help with a dog. Eight months earlier the trainer had sold the pick of a special litter (two top KNPV titled Mals chosen and specifically breed together) to an individual who promised to do right by this female dog. The owner neglected the dog. She lived in a crate and was never housebroken trained or cared for. The dog came back to the trainer/breeder.

My buddy was approached by the trainer told about this poor neglected dog on a weekend open class with a group. The trainer asked my buddy if he would work the dog some that day because he was impressed with how he turned his Mal around. After working with this lovely female Mal the trainer said to my friend, "if you want her she is yours!". He couldn't say no and that's how he has two Mals now. And he has turned that girl into a great dog. It was lots of work due to the neglect the poor girl experienced. Plus the trainer/breeder told him if you take her and give her a good home he can come for all the training gratis. Given the pedigree that dog has she must have sold for a pretty penny.




I nearly went with a Dutchie or Working Line GSD but I knew it would be a little too much for me to handle. I wanted lower energy but have to remind myself that “lower energy” doesn’t mean “no energy” and my girl is still a working breed who needs her walks and daily stimulation. I’ve been taking good care of her hygiene and diet wise but want to make sure I also take care of her mental needs.

[UNM1136]

Once you teach her that you will reward her for returning, a Chuck It, and Chuck It Flying Squirrel will help A LOT. Have a Chuck It with at least two balls. More is easier. Toss one and call her back as she gets the ball. When she comes back, give the release command, and when she releases throw the next one. She will figure it out quickly, and will be spitting the ball out about five yards from you so you will throw another. Initially she will be spitting it out about 20 yards away. The reward is the launch, so withold the new ball until she brings you the last one. You may have to walk her up to the dropped one and tell her to "get it". It will be easier on you if you don't reward (throw, with the release command) until she brings you the last one.

The Chuck It increases the length of your arm, and the increased leverage for the throw means a much farther launch. Longer distance for the run, a more tired doggie. A tired dog is a good dog.

My dog absolutely feaks out at the sight of a Chuck It, or a Flying Squirrel. Every so often do a week of hand throws to keep her from cuing into the equipment.

pat

[Coyotesfan97]

Gotcha. I am always fascinated to watch a dog work a scent cone. I dunno why you dogs flip out with coyotes. Could be anything, or nothing at all. My dog doesn't like to go out while the neighbors are launching (illegal) fireworks. He will, but it takes some coaxing. He doesn't mind a day at the range shooting 9mm, .45 or 5.56 unsuppressed.

Maybe find coyote scent for hunting and trapping and preposition it near your walk and correct the dogs off the scent. Strong ecollar/leash and prong corrections until the dog is paying attention to you then tug/feed depending on your preferred reward to reinforce the focusing on you. Keep them from getting close enough to realize they are being set up.

Dunno. Maybe @Coyotes97fan can help...

pat

It’s hard to say why one dog reacts strongly to a stimulus and another ignores it. I can’t ever remember encountering a coyote while doing an area search. The only thing I could think of is genetics and a herding dog recognizing a predator. It was nice having a dog that would ignore other dogs just like in the Leerburg video. When you’re doing an area search down an alley and there’s multiple dogs barking and hurling themselves at fences but your dog is looking for the bad guy and doesn’t give a shit about the dogs. I think they just get more pissed at the lack of a reaction.

I do like the method that Pat talked about starting with the distraction being far away and moving in closer as the dog doesn’t react. That’s how we taught gunfire and flash bangs to our police dogs.

It’s good to know the lowest point your dog will react to e-collar stimulus because you can use it to train send outs with a low stim and releasing it where you want your dog to search. That’s technique stolen from training retrievers. It’s also good to know how much correction your dog needs under drive from an e-collar. I was taught to use a strong correction initially and lowering the level as needed. You definitely don’t start at low levels and work up. It sounds harsh but a swift hard correction works better than multiple corrections.

[UNM1136]

I ended up makinf my dog collarwise. I think I had too many good ideas and used them. If I would have stuck with one I probably would have bwen fine. I did the checking super low levels to find a level he clearly feels but doesn't react strongly to. I also did low level ecollar corrections as I did leash corrections, so he associated the correction as coming from me, rather than superstitious association.

My dog can flip me the bird when he's not wearing it, and does. But if he sees me pick up the remote, suddenly he's all ears.

The good news is after a few weeks of wearing the ecollar around without using it what was a low level stim (11 out of 100, his usual training non drive level is 12 out of 100) clearly surprised him when he got zapped by the collar.

pat

[Hemiram]

Just a quick mention here about stuff you use to mop/clean a floor. Some dogs have a very bad reaction to Pine cleaners, like Pine-Sol. My long gone yellow Lab Joe was one of them. The first time I used Pine-Sol, he suddenly attacked my other, much smaller dog. I made no connection at the time. A couple of weeks later, I decided to clean my kitchen and he went after her again, enraged for no real reason. I mentioned it to my vet, and he said, "Oh yeah, some dogs will totally go ballistic from Pine-Sol and that kind of stuff. No more Pine-Sol, no more rages. I wonder how many dogs have been put down due to Pine-Sol raging?

[jtcarm]

Just a hair bigger than our Havanese/Terrier mix:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211210/5783138c5c889f269820baad4f2502b9.jpg

[mmc45414]

I was taught to use a strong correction initially and lowering the level as needed. You definitely don’t start at low levels and work up. It sounds harsh but a swift hard correction works better than multiple corrections.
So now ya tell me, apparently I did it wrong... :cool:
Well, maybe not, because she never seemed to give a rat's ass about it until I cranked it all the way up and laid on the button and held it down. I feel like riding a Vespa at Sturgis talking about a poodle in this thread, but... We took in our current girl in about a year ago when she was two, and she is rowdy. She didn't have a bad life, but had spent too much time in the crate (young family with kids and jobs and a race car...) and has very high drive. Not like claw through a door, but she would not give a damn about what I might want if she was onto a squirrel or the neighbor's sheltie. She thinks she is just playing, but was a sixty pound bully, until I got the shock collar...


I also did low level ecollar corrections as I did leash corrections, so he associated the correction as coming from me, rather than superstitious association.
One thing I did was to always blow the whistle when I was hitting the button and it has worked out well. Mostly now it is for recall rather than for correction. We live on a dead-end street and she is off leash here. We do not have a fenced yard so coming when called is pretty important. I only had to shock her hard 5-10 times and now the whistle does the trick. I call out to her first, but a quick toot means I want her to come closer, usually a series of brief toots if she is out of sight, or a long hard blast on it if she is screwing up. Nice now that we have inexpensive whistles scattered about (bought several of the same brand) but were able to pass the collar along to somebody else that needed it.

ETA: Picture of rowdy dog, eyeballing the tree line, looking for movement:
81181

[Coyotesfan97]

So now ya tell me, apparently I did it wrong. Well, maybe not, because she never seemed to give a rat's ass about it until I cranked it all the way up and laid on the button and held it down. I feel like riding a Vespa at Sturgis talking about a poodle in this thread, but... We took in our current girl in about a year ago when she was two, and she is rowdy. She didn't have a bad life, but had spent too much time in the crate (young family with kids and jobs and a race car...) and has very high drive. Not like claw through a door, but she would not give a damn about what I might want if she was onto a squirrel or the neighbor's sheltie. She thinks she is just playing, but was a sixty pound bully, until I got the shock collar.[/ATTACH]

I usually tell people that are considering an e-collar to find a trainer that can train them on how to use the e-collar while the dog gets introduced to it. Every dog is different on how they’ll react to it and how much stimulus is needed for training/correcting different things.

I’m generally going to talk about dogs that have been trained their whole life and are either in our patrol school or are experienced police dogs. Sometimes dogs have been trained using e-collars in Holland.

Usually the first thing we’d do is put the collar on the dog and start at one. Dogtra starts at one and goes up to 127. We’d watch the dog and gradually work up watching for the slightest ear twitch or indication the do felt it. Generally it’s in the 12-15 range. Cool now we start using the collar in obedience for corrections rather than the leash. And you’re very picky on how fast the dog does something and your timing on the correction.

After we work on that we’ll move onto to using the collar for corrections during bite work. It’s different now because you’re going to something where the dog is now in high drive doing something they really like to do. It can be a release from a bite or a recall command on a long send. This is where every dog varies and you as the handler have to be smart/trained. The dog is on the bite. You give the release command. We like to see immediate releases but some dogs are slower that others on the release but you can tell they are in the process. Either way it’s command, compliance or correction. On bite work we start at a high level of stimulation. It might be 60-80 on the controller for the first time. Dog doesn’t listen they get corrected. Because it’s a high level you usually see a huge reaction whether it’s vocal or a release where they jump back. You send them again and give the release command. Usually you’re being picky and correcting unless the dog immediately obeys. As this process continues you’re lowering the stim to the point where you’re finding the level where the dog will obey. Let’s say you started at 60 but you’ve found 30 works. Now you have a ballpark figure on how much stim you need to achieve compliance.

The problem with starting low and working high is you’re training your dog to be tolerant to the stim from the e-collar. It’s pretty much the slowly turning up the heat on the frog in water pot on the stove. Oh and dogs will get tolerant to the stim. They’ll become collar wise. If you only have the collar on when you do obedience or bite work Mals will definitely know they can give you the claw if it’s not on. My routine was to walk my dog to the car at the start of shift and put him in his insert. I’d put his collar on right away. At the end of shift I’d take it off before he got out of the car.

Two more things. You need to find out where the best placement of the two prongs is for your dog on his neck. I always liked the box on the e-collar to be on the upper side of their necks. Some guys liked under the neck. Either way is rides high close to their head. It has to be tight enough you can get two fingers under the collar. If it’s too loose the prongs won’t connect with the dogs skin.

And don’t forget to charge your collar! They have bar indicators you can look at. I’d test my collar on my hand. The meaty portion of your thumb/palm is a good place. You make sure you have the two prongs on it and hit the button. I usually tested at 20-25.

This is a very basic post about a process that can be very complicated and is definitely dog specific. It’s the process we used. Other trainers might do it differently. Some dogs are very sensitive and others take a lot. It’s very easy to ruin a dog using an e-collar incorrectly. That’s why I always say get trained in it’s use.

[mmc45414]

Thanks for that comprehensive reply. Here is the Dogtra I used:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HDFBXF6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
I called it my remote control for the dog.


Usually the first thing we’d do is put the collar on the dog and start at one. Dogtra starts at one and goes up to 127. We’d watch the dog and gradually work up watching for the slightest ear twitch or indication the do felt it. Generally it’s in the 12-15 range. Cool now we start using the collar in obedience for corrections rather than the leash.
I guess I sorta worked up to it, but not by testing in that manner. I started at a lower level and worked up, but on the probably simpler unit I had she never seemed to notice until I had it cranked up. Maybe as you mention I didn't have it tight enough, but I am pretty sure it was, because once I dialed it up she sure noticed!


Either way it’s command, compliance or correction. On bite work we start at a high level of stimulation. It might be 60-80 on the controller for the first time. Dog doesn’t listen they get corrected. Because it’s a high level you usually see a huge reaction whether it’s vocal or a release where they jump back. You send them again and give the release command.

The problem with starting low and working high is you’re training your dog to be tolerant to the stim from the e-collar. It’s pretty much the slowly turning up the heat on the frog in water pot on the stove. ... They’ll become collar wise. If you only have the collar on when you do obedience or bite work Mals will definitely know they can give you the claw if it’s not on. My routine was to walk my dog to the car at the start of shift and put him in his insert. I’d put his collar on right away. At the end of shift I’d take it off before he got out of the car.
So just pulling it out of my ass I probably didn't do it so wrong. For me it was an escalation of command, then whistle, then lay on the button while blowing on the whistle. Not like she is high drive like a Mal, but when I was correcting her she was in the process of fucking up and I was pissed, so she was doing something she liked, typically getting too far away chasing something or batting around the neighbor sheltie while it was trying to crap.

And yes, they need to be wearing it and it needs to be charged. I had a good routine, charging it up next to my phone at night. But one time I needed it it was home on the charger. I shoot skeet at WPAFB and there is a great field to let her run and blow some steam, she is also very social with people and everybody there enjoys her hanging out. But one day I let her out of the truck without noticing some people were walking a dog along the road 40yds away and woosh she was off. No real harm, she was pretty well behaved when she got there, but she didn't stop when I called. This is an after work activity and I had been in a rush to pack the gun and leave, and was out there without the collar or a whistle. Since then I bought several whistles and they are in every vehicle.

So in the end my ad-hoc method was not far off base, and she does very well now. I very rarely even need to use the whistle, just an occasional toot is she goes out of sight for too long or get too far away from me someplace like the gun club.

[Mercworx]

Just a hair bigger than our Havanese/Terrier mix:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211210/5783138c5c889f269820baad4f2502b9.jpg

That’s one good looking pup!



Have a week off and the wife and baby went to visit family out of state. Going to attempt a couple very light trails around the area and work on leash responses.


Just a quick mention here about stuff you use to mop/clean a floor. Some dogs have a very bad reaction to Pine cleaners, like Pine-Sol. My long gone yellow Lab Joe was one of them. The first time I used Pine-Sol, he suddenly attacked my other, much smaller dog. I made no connection at the time. A couple of weeks later, I decided to clean my kitchen and he went after her again, enraged for no real reason. I mentioned it to my vet, and he said, "Oh yeah, some dogs will totally go ballistic from Pine-Sol and that kind of stuff. No more Pine-Sol, no more rages. I wonder how many dogs have been put down due to Pine-Sol raging?


Thanks for sharing. JohnO also shared about Swifters and the chemicals their pads use. We have recently transitioned to homemade cleaners. Haven’t noticed any issues with the dogs yet.

[UNM1136]

Just a quick mention here about stuff you use to mop/clean a floor. Some dogs have a very bad reaction to Pine cleaners, like Pine-Sol. My long gone yellow Lab Joe was one of them. The first time I used Pine-Sol, he suddenly attacked my other, much smaller dog. I made no connection at the time. A couple of weeks later, I decided to clean my kitchen and he went after her again, enraged for no real reason. I mentioned it to my vet, and he said, "Oh yeah, some dogs will totally go ballistic from Pine-Sol and that kind of stuff. No more Pine-Sol, no more rages. I wonder how many dogs have been put down due to Pine-Sol raging?

I did not know that. I love the smell of Pine-Sol.

pat

[Hemiram]

I did not know that. I love the smell of Pine-Sol.

pat

My mom used it forever on our kitchen and bathroom floors. I had no clue about the rage thing. I always wondered if my other dog wasn't there, would he have gone after me? He had no beef with me either time, Blackie was his target and I remember him looking at me very strangely when I was trying to get him to let go of her throat the second time, and if she just twitched, he would clamp down again. He finally let her go after a couple of minutes of me calming him down. I put him outside and opened up the windows to let the PS air out. I let him back in a half hour later, and he was OK. I gave the bottle of PS to my girlfriend's mom. Their dogs had no issues with it. Most don't, but Joe sure did.

Later on, my two littermates would get into one of their "arguments" that were kind of like a PS rage, but much milder when one of the many many skunks in the area would stink up the neighborhood. Those fights were kind of comical more than scary, they would stand up on their back legs and throw punches at each other at a machine gun rate. The loser would be the one that sneezed first and as soon as they did, it was over with dirty looks the only thing carried over for an hour or so. I got hit a few times during those boxing matches and those punches hurt. I wish I could have grabbed a video of one of them.

[Mercworx]

Greetings from western NC!



Literally doesn’t want to come inside


https://i.imgur.com/0uyDSEx.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/BeBf6yN.jpg


Training is going….well it’s “going”. Certainly a stubborn breed but not unwilling to please. She has the attitude of “I’ll sit if it makes sense to”. Debating still getting the male pup later this year. First pick male is fun but maybe I should just focus on my current girls development more.

Recall is getting tougher and tougher when she believes there is a threat. I see now the benefits of a privacy fence and will be installing privacy netting to our chain link. I’m hoping reducing visual cues may
help a bit.

Other than that still great with the kids. Not sure what she weighs now but if I didn’t mention last time she was 103lbs at 8 months (if I recall). She about 10 now.

Hope everyone is well


Edit: Forgot to share. Our girl held her ground on a perceived intruder last week. I was at work and my wife was inside with our two young kids. She told me she heard our girl make a very aggressive series of barks. Curious she walked outside and was actually spooked to find a man from the cable company all the way up our driveway towards the backyard entrance. He was startled by the dog and apologetic. Wife said the dog was very confrontational and did not want to be pulled away. She got the dog inside and allowed the man to proceed with his work. I should note we do not have this cable provider but he needed access to something behind our property. Of course I’d like it if she had been a bit easier for my wife to control but given the circumstances I was pleased with her. Frankly it’s what I got her for. The cable guy should come knock on the front door next time.

[JohnO]

We had some good fun today out during the big Nor’Easter.

83497

[DDTSGM]

We had some good fun today out during the big Nor’Easter.

83497

Goodness, my wife would have had a stroke. I constantly tell her that our two German Shepherds are not Jamaican Shepherds, even pointing out how they roll around with each other in the snow, when we have snow, that is. She still will call me and remind me 'it's 15 degrees out don't leave the dogs out more than......'

[DC_P]

Why do dogs get so excited in the cold and snow? Every other animal looks miserable when it is exposed to the cold.

Either dogs are always too warm or they are just looking for a reason to be happy. My guess is the later.

[JohnO]

Goodness, my wife would have had a stroke. I constantly tell her that our two German Shepherds are not Jamaican Shepherds, even pointing out how they roll around with each other in the snow, when we have snow, that is. She still will call me and remind me 'it's 15 degrees out don't leave the dogs out more than......'

They absolutely love the cold. I have to coax them to come it when it's cold. They just want to lay in the snow. We have been on many hikes when the temps have been in the single digits and they eat it up.

On the other hand they do not like the heat and humidity of Connecticut in the summer. Once I made the mistake of going out for a morning hike too soon after they had eaten. My female was fine she does much better with the heat. My male just laid down panting deep in the woods. We were a mile plus deep in the woods and there was no way I was going to carry him out. At 110ish Lbs. he is a monster. I was very concerned that he was overheated and in distress. Fortunately I carry a lot of ice water in the summer. I fill 2 1-gallon plastic milk jugs with ice cubes then add water. I carry them in a backpack.

I used 1 gallon of the ice water to pour on and cool him off. I poured the water carefully so that his coat wasn't deflecting the water away without reaching his skin. I still had plenty for him to drink. I gave him plenty of time to rest and when he finally got up he was fine. I called his vet and he said I handled it correctly.

Needless to say I am far more concerned about hot weather as compared to cold weather.

[Mercworx]

Update: My girl officially does NOT like strangers. Lol.



More to follow but all is well.

[Hemiram]

A friend of mine and his wife are empty nesters, they have one daughter who is a religious nut to the point her own two teenagers refuse to talk to her, they live with their dad and have since they divorced. Their son lives in Oregon, and so it's just them most of the time, so they took in a rescued Lab female that appeared to be fat, but was very pregnant. She soon dropped 8 large pups. As they went to new homes, my friend's wife suddenly says, "I want to keep the ones that are left!". There were 3 left! So they went from on 28 pound Beagle, who was pretty insane, to an 85 pound Lab with some pups that look to be well over 100 pounds when they grow up, and they are crazed, to put it nicely. They are all males, two yellow and one black, the black one is already pushing 60 and is noticably bigger than the two yellow ones. The feet on him are BIG, and he's definitely the "boss" pup and I would guess he will be the boss period when he gets as big as mom is. The pic my friend sent of the "family" is huge and I won't post it here until I get one that isn't so needlessly huge and awkward to even look at.

He called me at about 4am (I'm usually awake, so it's fine) and said, "The boys are in our bed. They slept a few hours and can't seem to sleep anymore, so it's party time!". They play rough, my dog King would have fit right in with that bunch. I had three dogs at once a couple of times, and it was a hassle. Four will be "interesting". Apparently mom just sits and watches them for a while, then finally joins in, as rough as the pups are. I went and saw them on Monday, and they seem almost totally fearless of the usual stuff a lot of dogs are scared of. That not being scared is really a great thing, it sure makes the end of June and beginning of July a lot less stressful.

[Jim Watson]

On the other hand they do not like the heat and humidity of Connecticut in the summer.

I used 1 gallon of the ice water to pour on and cool him off.

How about Alabama?
We had a big Boxer collapse right at our back door one summer day.
I turned the hose on him and set out drinking water. He kind of quit declining but did not recover fully. We tracked his owners from his rabies tag number and they got him to a vet. Turned out that fine as he looked, he was not healthy and a hot day without his meds just about did him in.

[Mercworx]

Hey everyone!

Apologies for not keeping this thread more updated. I aim to try and get in here more often. I have two kids under the age of two so as you can imagine sometimes I forgot where I am or what day it is lol.

Our girl is doing very well. Growth has slowed down considerably to where I can safely assume she will me a medium sized female. She’s in the 120lbs now but I don’t have an exact number. I will measure her at the withers today for a up to date number. I am in contact with a man who owns her brother from the exact same litter. He is currently at around 160lbs. She will be 1 year old in a few weeks.


A few keys thoughts.

- We took her kennel away WAY too soon. Wife wanted to clear up the space and the dog behaves well in the house. What I didn’t account for was the structure and forced down time/naps the kennel provided. The adverse effect was our girl never “came off duty” and would routinely bark and perceived threats she felt or saw through the windows etc. We set the kennel back up and made sure to get more forces nap times in.

- Wrong approach to her relationship with our senior small breed. I attempted to foster a friendship like relationship between the two. There is no way our CO will respect a smaller breed who doesn’t yield to her dominance. This has led to small spats of mouthing/non contact fighting. It’s also highlighted that our senior dog is nearing his end imo. I never realized how bad he was and we are going to start monitoring his quality of life day to day.

- Leash training has improved tremendously and I will post the video I have used. She is still reactive towards other dogs and strangers but I’m not sure I can even change that.

- Realistic expectations about the breed. I hate to act like I’m “giving up” and I will certainly keep training but I’ve come to realize certain things with this breed. If there is a perceived threat, she is NOT going to recall. At least not without CONSIDERABLY more training/work. She sees her job as confronting these threats and it’s ingrained into her genetics. “Retreating” in the face of a threat just doesn’t make sense to her. Having her sit, stay, not pull, leave it and behave in the house are massive victories and I realize that now.

- For a regular family like mine this breed is….overkill. Imo if you live in the suburbs or “semi” rural as we do the reality of the breed is that you’re just gonna have a dog that never shuts up. Everything is a threat in her eyes. A privacy style fence is a must. We have secure fencing but it’s chain link. I aim to put up privacy blinders here soon. I know some of you on here have owned high level protective breeds before but for me I think a working line GSD or Rottie would have accomplished what I wanted while being more day to day life “friendly”. That said while I recognize she is just a dog and my family remains vigilant I must admit she provides a certain peace of mind especially for my wife when I am gone or at night. She absolutely would NOT allow anyone near the home without alerting in a very aggressive manner and from what I have seen she stands her ground in the face of grown men.


Beyond that she is the BEST dog I have ever had and is the best dog I have ever seen around children. Now I understand she loves OUR (“her”) children and maybe not everyone’s. However she has been absolutely fantastic with the kids. Our daughter (closely monitored) can removed high value toys and treats from her mouth without issue and the dog is noticeably more gentle with her. My daughter loves her and will settle down for bed after the dog has “checked” her room and said good night. Great dog.

I have withdrawn my deposit for a male CO and will focus on developing our girl. When I add another dog it will likely be a working line Rottie. I’ve thought about a Cane Corso or even returning to the Bully breeds as well but unless we relocate to a remote area I will not get another CO.

Please excuse typos I’m on mobile and will edit when possible.

[LittleLebowski]

How much land do you have for her?

[Mercworx]

How much land do you have for her?

About 1/2 acre backyard.

[LittleLebowski]

About 1/2 acre backyard.

Aye yi yi. I’m sure you’ve got it in hand, don’t envy you :D

[Hemiram]

I have a friend who used to have a Rott/Doberman mix, about 100 pounds and he was just obsessed with the "job" of watchdog. He was as bad patroling the house at all hours, as my late dog King was about hunting mice, but not as violent and deadly as King was to the mice. He lived to almost 12, and I guess he was happy at his job, but he wasn't exactly pleasant to be around. They lived in an older house back then and it creaked and groaned a lot, and just about everything set him into patrol mode. If you tried to get him to just sit and relax, it wasn't going to happen, and the night patrols tended to wake up my friend's daughter, whose bedroom was at the top of the stairs. I was over there one night and fell asleep in a recliner watching a movie. "Max" was getting up there and he apparently forgot I was there. He had known me since the day they got him at 9 weeks. I woke up, and my friend and his wife had both fallen asleep too, and I had to hit the bathroom, bad, and I got up quickly and went around the corner and almost ran into Max, who had heard us/me get up, and he was ready for action. He sounded "Red Alert" and I said, "It's me, you idiot!", he growled at me and came towards me with his head down and I could see the hair was up on his back. Luckily, he smelled me or it kicked in who I was, and his little stubby tail went into high gear. He did insist on taking me into the bathroom as usual. Not long after that, he was diagnosed with kidney failure and about 6 months later, he got put down. The Doberman who replaced him, "Jack" has a much more laid back work ethic, one patrol at bedtime, and only certain noises set him off, like people talking outside where he can hear them but not see them. When I go over there, he sits on my feet and leans against my legs, and then the ball comes out and he's relentless with it, along with the chin rubs that Doberman and Dobe mixes, like King and Molly, really like. Jack also is totally unafraid of all the noises that frighten most dogs, like fireworks, thunder, etc. That was the thing about King and Molly that made them so easy to live with, the lack of fear during the mid May to mid July fireworks season. Yes, that's how long it lasts here, most years, two months of bangs, pops, and screaming rockets. King and Molly actually would go outside and watch the neighbors shoot them off, until they got tired of the noise. They were the quietest dogs I've ever been around. When I took King to work, he barked 10X as much as he did at home, and the other employees would remark how quiet he was. I would cringe at first when he barked, but after a while, I realized all the other dogs barked way more then he did, so I relaxed. He got tossed out of work when some visitor came in with his cell phone in his hand and King thought it was food and grabbed at it as he walked past him. He really missed coming to work with me..

[LittleLebowski]

How about Alabama?
We had a big Boxer collapse right at our back door one summer day.
I turned the hose on him and set out drinking water. He kind of quit declining but did not recover fully. We tracked his owners from his rabies tag number and they got him to a vet. Turned out that fine as he looked, he was not healthy and a hot day without his meds just about did him in.

Boxers keel over randomly a lot. They often die right there. It’s a thing, a forum member had this happen.

[UNM1136]

Aye yi yi. I’m sure you’ve got it in hand, don’t envy you :D

+1

A Chuck-it (https://www.amazon.com/Chuckit-Classic-Launcher-Thrower-Assorted/dp/B00006IX59) should be your new best friend. Get some extra balls...a lot of extra balls....

pat

[Robert Mitchum]

My Presa Canario is 20 Months old and a lot bigger than the standard.
He comes from working lines, the breeder does not breed show dogs and goes more for function.
The sire used was 145 pounds the Dam is 130 pounds

He is 30 inches at the withers and 170 pounds on a vet scale. at 20 Months.

They are bad with other dogs and like to eat cats if they can get a hold of them.
Mine lets our older cat be because he knows that would be bad for him.

I would never trust him around a strange dog or let someone just walk in my house.
In public he listens to my Wife and I and is good on a leash.

They are very loving family dogs, just not cool with strangers or other dogs for the most part.
I have always owned serious dog breeds, so he knows who the boss is.
I don't beat him or abuse him in any way shape or form,

Have a huge fenced in backyard and do a ton of tug work and obedience training.
Still working him in prey drive and a little defense work.
He has FIGHT DRIVE, so I never put him in bad situations.

[Mercworx]

+1

A Chuck-it (https://www.amazon.com/Chuckit-Classic-Launcher-Thrower-Assorted/dp/B00006IX59) should be your new best friend. Get some extra balls...a lot of extra balls....

pat



Need to order one. I have a jolly ball that we kick around the yard and she loves it.



My Presa Canario is 20 Months old and a lot bigger than the standard.
He comes from working lines, the breeder does not breed show dogs and goes more for function.
The sire used was 145 pounds the Dam is 130 pounds

He is 30 inches at the withers and 170 pounds on a vet scale. at 20 Months.

They are bad with other dogs and like to eat cats if they can get a hold of them.
Mine lets our older cat be because he knows that would be bad for him.

I would never trust him around a strange dog or let someone just walk in my house.
In public he listens to my Wife and I and is good on a leash.

They are very loving family dogs, just not cool with strangers or other dogs for the most part.
I have always owned serious dog breeds, so he knows who the boss is.
I don't beat him or abuse him in any way shape or form,

Have a huge fenced in backyard and do a ton of tug work and obedience training.
Still working him in prey drive and a little defense work.
He has FIGHT DRIVE, so I never put him in bad situations.



Presas are awesome. Think I remember you posting pics ITT. Great looking dog.

Can’t find any Schutzhund/IGP clubs in my area. Not sure how my girls would do. Very protective but don’t think she has that kind of working drive, also seems to have a soft bite. Nothing some work couldn’t fix but just at base level I don’t think she would excel is this type of work.

She loves doing her job and being out and about though I’d say she doesn’t mind being inside about 30% unless it’s snowing in which case she never wants to come inside lol.

We have decided the next dog will be a working line Rottie.

[JohnO]

Boxers keel over randomly a lot. They often die right there. It’s a thing, a forum member had this happen.

I have a friend and neighbor who's GSD keeled over and died right in front of their eyes. They were playing with the dog in the house and he went down. The dogs tongue went white and he was gone.

He was a outstanding example of a Germen Shepherd Dog. Approximately 2 years old, an import from the Czech Republic acquired through a highly respected breeder.

Here one minute gone the next! The family was devastated. His name was Radar.

[Mercworx]

I have a friend and neighbor who's GSD keeled over and died right in front of their eyes. They were playing with the dog in the house and he went down. The dogs tongue went white and he was gone.

He was a outstanding example of a Germen Shepherd Dog. Approximately 2 years old, an import from the Czech Republic acquired through a highly respected breeder.

Here one minute gone the next! The family was devastated. His name was Radar.



I would be devastated. Did they ever determine the cause?

Sounds like a stellar dog. The working GSD lines out of the Czech Republic are superb.

Can find some working Rottie lines from there as well.


Some recent pictures (please pardon the yard and fence line. I am in the process of cleaning off the fence and installing a new one. Also laying cedar shavings on some of the mud patches, I apologize).


https://i.imgur.com/eltd7H4.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/pBujlGU.jpg

[Mercworx]

I have a friend who used to have a Rott/Doberman mix, about 100 pounds and he was just obsessed with the "job" of watchdog. He was as bad patroling the house at all hours, as my late dog King was about hunting mice, but not as violent and deadly as King was to the mice. He lived to almost 12, and I guess he was happy at his job, but he wasn't exactly pleasant to be around. They lived in an older house back then and it creaked and groaned a lot, and just about everything set him into patrol mode. If you tried to get him to just sit and relax, it wasn't going to happen, and the night patrols tended to wake up my friend's daughter, whose bedroom was at the top of the stairs. I was over there one night and fell asleep in a recliner watching a movie. "Max" was getting up there and he apparently forgot I was there. He had known me since the day they got him at 9 weeks. I woke up, and my friend and his wife had both fallen asleep too, and I had to hit the bathroom, bad, and I got up quickly and went around the corner and almost ran into Max, who had heard us/me get up, and he was ready for action. He sounded "Red Alert" and I said, "It's me, you idiot!", he growled at me and came towards me with his head down and I could see the hair was up on his back. Luckily, he smelled me or it kicked in who I was, and his little stubby tail went into high gear. He did insist on taking me into the bathroom as usual. Not long after that, he was diagnosed with kidney failure and about 6 months later, he got put down. The Doberman who replaced him, "Jack" has a much more laid back work ethic, one patrol at bedtime, and only certain noises set him off, like people talking outside where he can hear them but not see them. When I go over there, he sits on my feet and leans against my legs, and then the ball comes out and he's relentless with it, along with the chin rubs that Doberman and Dobe mixes, like King and Molly, really like. Jack also is totally unafraid of all the noises that frighten most dogs, like fireworks, thunder, etc. That was the thing about King and Molly that made them so easy to live with, the lack of fear during the mid May to mid July fireworks season. Yes, that's how long it lasts here, most years, two months of bangs, pops, and screaming rockets. King and Molly actually would go outside and watch the neighbors shoot them off, until they got tired of the noise. They were the quietest dogs I've ever been around. When I took King to work, he barked 10X as much as he did at home, and the other employees would remark how quiet he was. I would cringe at first when he barked, but after a while, I realized all the other dogs barked way more then he did, so I relaxed. He got tossed out of work when some visitor came in with his cell phone in his hand and King thought it was food and grabbed at it as he walked past him. He really missed coming to work with me..

Both sound like solid dogs. Funny that a good mutt can do that job just as well as anything else. Euro Dobermans are fantastic but so hard to find and expensive. Also I was hoping my next dog could at least hang for some time outside in the snow with our CO. We don’t leave our dogs outside all day anyways but she loves the snow and id like for her companion to be able to join her for extended time outside during those conditions.

Thank you for sharing it reminded me of a couple things.

Our girl never comes off duty and she has certainly woken the babies more than a few times (wife was NOT happy). She definitely needs to patrol/work. Having her inside too long is not good for her though she seems happy with a 60-40 split, but she definitely needs that sense of work. We make sure to praise the behavior when appropriate and correct but not punish when inappropriate. The issue is she will raise hell at something that at least from my perspective is clearly not a threat. A man walking his dog on the other side of the street heading away from the house gets a response. I’m sure things like this may mature out of her with age and wisdom. On the other hand she’s been asleep inside twice now when we were solicited for services (fine people but still). Not a huge deal but made me go “come on now girl…at least get up for these”

We have some critters around but none that concern me. I purchased this breed solely because it is human suspicious/aggressive. Her job is to dissuade people from approaching the home and she’s “sort” of good at this I guess? Lol we are all learning. Me more than anyone. When she is aware someone strange is at the house she has absolutely held her ground ferociously (Amazon delivery man etc) even still I think peering over the fence or peaking in my window and seeing a GSD would accomplish the same deterrence as my CO.

Not sure I shared this but I went up on the hill to clean up the fence (remove overgrowth) I was behind the tree line and our girl was inside. She was raising some hell so I texted the wife she could be let out. Holy cow did she come HAULING ass up this hill to confront “me”. I mean she’s my dog and she scared me, took her longer than I would of liked for her to recognize me but it renewed my respect for the breed. She showed NO fear when charging me.