View Full Version : PMM P365 Gen 2 compensator
75021
Received it today and installed. Will try it out and compare to the ported SAS slide and the True barrel with the mini comp.
75023
Barrel length is shorter than the True threaded barrel.
75022
With the comp it’s shorter than a P365XL.
I don’t quite know what use it’ll have for me. I guess it’ll depend on how it shoots. My impression is that slowing the slide on the SAS with ports makes it a fair amount softer shooting.
Crusader8207
07-30-2021, 09:27 PM
What was the cost for the comp and barrel?
Super77
07-31-2021, 11:13 AM
I'm really looking forward to the 43X version. If it works half as well as the JTTC I have on me G45 I'll be really happy.
vandal
08-01-2021, 06:14 PM
Had a fun range trip with the P365X/Boresight/407K/PMM Gen 2 Comp today. I compared it to the P365XL with a 507K on it.
With the 365XL I don't find the recoil objectionable but I'd be lying if I said I didn't lose the dot in recoil sometimes.
Switched to the P365X with the PMM comp. Wow. The recoil felt like shooting a Glock 42 .380 if I remember that gun correctly. Very easy to keep the dot in the 407K window without really trying. Also very accurate. I was shooting Federal AE9FP 147gr and I did have a couple occasions of the slide not locking back on the last shot of a 10-round XL mag. 147gr HST had a little more pop and no problems locking the slide back.
Top target is my group at 15Y as I sighted in the 407K (lowering POI -- not vertical stringing.)
I'm now newly concerned about the shorter barrel velocity and expansion of the load I've got lots of ... 147gr HST. Never really worried about it with the XL length.
This is my second PMM comp. The first is the JTTC Ultra which I have on a G45... also amazing once I found the right recoil spring weight (15lbs in my case).
https://youtu.be/JLSHmJuYNRs
vandal
I have almost the same setup and had to use it instead of my competition gun for some drills.
It was impressive that I could use it pretty decently for that.
I presume we expect this not to run with softer ammo? I got mine yesterday and shot it today. Three FTEject in 15 rounds of weakest ammo I have, which is 115 gr PMC. I took a few rounds of 150 gr Syntech with me and they were fine, as were 124 gr Norma and 147 gr Ranger. I liked it with 124 gr Norma the best.
I presume we expect this not to run with softer ammo? I got mine yesterday and shot it today. Three FTEject in 15 rounds of weakest ammo I have, which is 115 gr PMC. I took a few rounds of 150 gr Syntech with me and they were fine, as were 124 gr Norma and 147 gr Ranger. I liked it with 124 gr Norma the best.
I posted recoil spring options for weaker ammo plus comps earlier
ISMI spring with 1-3 coils removed.
I’ll also test the P365-380 RSA spring in the 9mm comp version if the length and size is the same.
octagon
02-26-2022, 07:54 PM
Is it really worth the hassle to run 147 and greater weights ? The 115-124gr and +P seem to make the most difference and improvement.
dcf1981
02-26-2022, 08:06 PM
I presume we expect this not to run with softer ammo? I got mine yesterday and shot it today. Three FTEject in 15 rounds of weakest ammo I have, which is 115 gr PMC. I took a few rounds of 150 gr Syntech with me and they were fine, as were 124 gr Norma and 147 gr Ranger. I liked it with 124 gr Norma the best.
I ran about 400 rounds through my PMM P365X the other day w/ Blazer 115 gr, Federal 115 gr, Norma 124 gr, Norma 124 gr Envy PCC, and Hornady 135 gr Critical Duty. I had no issues which actually surprised me as they tend to like hotter 124 vs weaker 115. I haven’t had issues with my other PMM comps except my P320 Ultra JTTC two port. I had to install the DPM recoil spring in order to get it to run even with the Norma Envy which is supposedly 1345fps, I haven’t had any issues since installing the DPM system even with light ammo. They are amazing with hot ammo and seem to recoil even less than weaker ammo as the comp has more gas to really work. Picture is 25 yards with Blazer 115 gr.
Up1911Fan
02-26-2022, 08:24 PM
Seriously considering one of these to try out, not sure how much of a difference will make for me as I almost exclusively shoot 147gr ammo.
dcf1981
02-26-2022, 09:03 PM
Seriously considering one of these to try out, not sure how much of a difference will make for me as I almost exclusively shoot 147gr ammo.
I’m sure there will be some recoil/muzzle flip reduction, but not as much as hotter 124 gr ammo. I typically carry 147 gr Speer G2 in my Glocks, but zeroed my P365X w/ 135 gr +P Critical Duty.
Up1911Fan
02-26-2022, 09:25 PM
I’m sure there will be some recoil/muzzle flip reduction, but not as much as hotter 124 gr ammo. I typically carry 147 gr Speer G2 in my Glocks, but zeroed my P365X w/ 135 gr +P Critical Duty.
Out of curiosity, why the ammo swap for the P365X? I use 147gr Gold Dots in everything. I think I have a few boxes of 124gr +p HST's left I could try, will probably just stick with the GD load though.
dcf1981
02-26-2022, 10:02 PM
Out of curiosity, why the ammo swap for the P365X? I use 147gr Gold Dots in everything. I think I have a few boxes of 124gr +p HST's left I could try, will probably just stick with the GD load though.
I have a few hundred rounds of it and wanted a little more oomph to get performance out of the comp and the P365X only has a 3.1” barrel. I probably will wind up switching over to 124 +P HST or Gold Dot the next time I need to resupply carry ammo as I have the comp on the P365X and will have a PMM Micro comp on my G19 when it comes back from ATEI.
I posted recoil spring options for weaker ammo plus comps earlier
ISMI spring with 1-3 coils removed.
Can you link which ISMI spring, and what guide rod? Or there is a way to put aftermarket spring on oem recoil assembly?
Can you link which ISMI spring, and what guide rod? Or there is a way to put aftermarket spring on oem recoil assembly?
I use these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/303512342755
It’s a captured spring but the Allen bolt at the end interferes with caps and compensators so I grip the base in a vise and remove the end bolt and use it like an uncaptured spring and rod. Don’t lose the washer though.
Then Dremel off a coil or two (or three) depending on your requirements.
If the 365-380 RSA works that might be the easy button when parts are available in the future.
It has been quite some time since there were any updates to this thread. I haven't shot my 365/PMM for sone time, but started shooting it the last few days. Today, I had a stoppage with Lawman 124. Sunday, YVK had a stoppage with his 365/PMM, though he couldn't be certain whether it was ammo or something related to his reload.
What experience have folks been having with their PMM barrels and comps on the 365?
G19Fan
01-03-2024, 10:46 AM
I had a pmm comp to test out.
Running it with oem recoil springs I would have frequent stopages with 124 blazer brass and 115 blazer brass. Maybe 2 stoppages a mag. Tried different mags and different case of ammo, same issue. It woud.run 124 lawman better (maybe a stoppage every 10 to 11 mags)
With oem 3.1 barrel the gun has never choked on anything.
Same setup would run wolf and tula 115 so go figure
Didn't care enough to figure it out as I didn't want to carry a comped gun.
Sold it with full disclosure to a close friend who collects more than shoots
When the gun did run it shot well.and compensator was nice
I’ve been shooting one of my IDPA BUG setups:
113457
There are some issues with the PMM comp system which I feel might be due to barrel hood ramp angle.
Work is busy right now but if I get a chance later I might be able to detail what I think is going on and what I plan on testing soon to remedy it.
Pricey but seems like it would work.
https://www.opticsplanet.com/dpm-recoil-reduction-system-for-sig-sauer-p-365.html
D-der
01-03-2024, 03:36 PM
I don't know if it made any difference or not but, when I put the PMM comp
in an XL slide I put in a worn rsa with few thousand rd's on it ?
I don't know if it made any difference or not but, when I put the PMM comp
in an XL slide I put in a worn rsa with few thousand rd's on it ?
XL slide is also going to be a different scenario due to the length of the stroke.
The regular short P365 slide is the most vulnerable and sensitive to perturbation.
So let's talk in general terms.
Recoil springs in a system have to be able to return to battery. They also have to be able to reliably eject the spent cartridges before they do that.
Those two functions oppose each other and with a short recoil spring travel, you're limited by physical coil space and by rod length to make modifications, even with flat wire springs.
With weaker ammo, you're also trying to overcome slide weight (which also includes optics).
With compensators, you have a slide brake function as well that you have to overcome.
Two often overlooked aspects of this equilibrium are: how does the barrel unlock and how much energy does the slide have to burn pulling the case from the chamber.
YVK
GJM
Pay attention to chamber cleanliness with relationship to failures. In a system with minimal surplus margin, the slide has to be oiled and the chamber very clean to stay above margin in my application with weak ammo. If I let it get dirty then there's too much resistance to full stroke extraction from chamber and malfunctions increase.
But the other thing that could be modified is the barrel hood ramp angle.
When I bought the 32ACP Zev G42... it recoiled like a 380ACP.
https://youtu.be/RrYlmyM53SU?si=Jl9o0FjMVKwL2OiU
I noticed the very sloped barrel hood and I was educated on PF that kind of ramp is used on starter and blank pistols to reduce barrel lock and allow more aggressive rearward slide movement.
So the two solutions that I'm going to try in the next week or two:
1. Flex Hone the chamber. If slicking up the chamber adds more margin for rearward force then it should add reliability and reduce cleaning requirements.
2. If that doesn't work well, then I'll probably grind the barrel hood angle down to allow earlier release (but ultimately it might reduce some of the performance gains of a compensator).
I could also drill lightening holes in the slide so that it returns more aggressively with the same amount of energy.
But I'd like to start with the more disposable options first. The SAS slide it's on is hard to replace so I'll work on the barrel first. Because if this barrel doesn't run, it's not worth anything to me so it's worth experimenting.
113498
113500
G19Fan
01-03-2024, 11:11 PM
Is there a general consensus of a comp vs something like what monsoon tactical does?
Oh the other thing I forgot to mention is that one of the other forces you have to overcome is the trigger reset. So hammer / striker spring weight matters here too. And you can often buy a little margin by going down on hammer / striker spring weight.
Is there a general consensus of a comp vs something like what monsoon tactical does?
Ports don’t have an end baffle to pull the barrel forward and retard unlocking so they don’t have brake function.
Ports and comps both reduce muzzle climb by gas redirection.
Comps have added brake function.
D-der
01-04-2024, 08:36 AM
Don't port's operate at the expense of velocity where comps don't ?
I've looked at slightly extended / ported Barsto barrels to avoid velocity loss...
Thant's one rabbit hole I haven't gone down yet.
Don't port's operate at the expense of velocity where comps don't ?
I've looked at slightly extended / ported Barsto barrels to avoid velocity loss...
Thant's one rabbit hole I haven't gone down yet.
You answered your own question.
They’re not a function of ports versus comps themselves but more a function of the specific application you choose.
This BarSto triple port comp will have higher velocity than something like a short threaded PMM or a no-threaded Radian comp.
113520
Velocity isn’t an inherent property of port versus comp. It’s in the specific choices you make regarding them.
D-der
BarSto left, Radian right
113521
Also note the BarSto is rifled to the end while the Radian barrel rifling stops before the comp.
113522
In this case the ported barrel has more velocity than the comped barrel.
So I wouldn’t get hung up on velocity as inherent in the system.
Velocity is a variable, but ammo / powder pressure curve is probably more important for cycling considerations.
YVK what was your experience with the P365-380 RSA? I thought I remembered you saying it didn’t work for you.
I just tried it with my PMM running subminor loads (110 PF) and it seems to work very well with nice recoil impulse and return. Dual spring is necessary in a slide this short I feel.
I never liked the feel of the DPM triple springs. My brain couldn’t get used to the extra variable on return and I always felt them harder to track on the S2.
I just ordered a few more of the P365-380 RSA off Sig to use in my comp gamer applications.
@YVK (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=39) what was your experience with the P365-380 RSA? I thought I remembered you saying it didn’t work for you.
I don't remember. I normally write it all down in my excel spreadsheet for future references but I just checked and I have nothing written.
Is there a general consensus of a comp vs something like what monsoon tactical does?
Oh the other thing I forgot to mention is that one of the other forces you have to overcome is the trigger reset. So hammer / striker spring weight matters here too. And you can often buy a little margin by going down on hammer / striker spring weight.
Ports don’t have an end baffle to pull the barrel forward and retard unlocking so they don’t have brake function.
Ports and comps both reduce muzzle climb by gas redirection.
Comps have added brake function.
Might this prevent ports from detrimentally effecting reliability and lend such a treatment to using stock components such as recoil springs etc? Im pretty interested in the Helleport for my Macro.
I don't remember. I normally write it all down in my excel spreadsheet for future references but I just checked and I have nothing written.
At one point, YVK and I had a theory that the PMM comp might make a 3.1 365 more reliable with 124+P carry ammo, but that might have been wishful thinking.
The more complicated this gets, the better a plain OEM 3.7 XL upper looks. My 365 holsters are XL length already either for the 3.1/PMM or better tuck.
Might this prevent ports from detrimentally effecting reliability and lend such a treatment to using stock components such as recoil springs etc? Im pretty interested in the Helleport for my Macro.
Can you clarify what you’re talking about?
Are you talking about adding ports to a macro and using reduced striker springs to offset?
The benefit of a macro is that it uses the XL guide rod which has more travel length so it’s not as sensitive.
FDEZ sells a tunable spring and recoil rod set that would work on the macro.
At one point, YVK and I had a theory that the PMM comp might make a 3.1 365 more reliable with 124+P carry ammo, but that might have been wishful thinking.
The more complicated this gets, the better a plain OEM 3.7 XL upper looks. My 365 holsters are XL length already either for the 3.1/PMM or better tuck.
I think that’s wise. There’s just not much margin left in the engineering of the 3.1 system and I definitely wouldn’t trust it for carry with a PMM.
Can you clarify what you’re talking about?
Are you talking about adding ports to a macro and using reduced striker springs to offset?
The benefit of a macro is that it uses the XL guide rod which has more travel length so it’s not as sensitive.
FDEZ sells a tunable spring and recoil rod set that would work on the macro.
No, I was reading what you were saying about the differences between comps vs ports and was thinking/ asking if, since ports don’t act as brakes like comps do, they don’t need a reduction in recoil spring weight. If true, ports may have a reliability advantage since you can use factory components?
No, I was reading what you were saying about the differences between comps vs ports and was thinking/ asking if, since ports don’t act as brakes like comps do, they don’t need a reduction in recoil spring weight. If true, ports may have a reliability advantage since you can use factory components?
I wouldn’t think about it that way.
Factory components aren’t the gold standard even though people assume they are.
They’re often built with company bottom line in mind.
What’s the replacement interval recommended on parts like $40 RSAs?
2500-5000 rounds? It’s mainly to cover their asses and they tend to be stiffer sprung to protect the factory components.
Ports still affect locking time, just not as dramatically unless you use a lot of large ports.
So it’s not black and white. Comp versus port. The comp geometry matters.
Like if you drill open the sides of a comp (like I did on a Czechmate) you can blunt some of the downward force and add back some margin.
But it reduces comp downforce.
There’s always a trade off.
If you’re looking to use stock components but only change one aspect (barrel), a P365 3.1 slide is going to be a difficult balance.
Here is a video I made a couple years ago.
https://youtu.be/lF4DYb1iYwo?si=DCm6Omn0sStVJJJj
Well this thread saved me some money. I was about to pull the trigger on one to test for a carry gun.
G19Fan
01-05-2024, 01:25 PM
Well this thread saved me some money. I was about to pull the trigger on one to test for a carry gun.
My experiment was a sad failure lol
Pistol Forum making spend money vs saving money is at least 80:20 skew
My experiment was a sad failure lol
Pistol Forum making spend money vs saving money is at least 80:20 skew
Sometimes you have to spend money, to lose money to spend even more money -- that is how we roll on PF.
125 rounds of four brands of 124 grain ammo through two PMM'd 365s / two 10 round and two 15 round mags / most one handed / half support hand / freezing temp / lint on my carry gun / no stoppages. I'll be shooting these more but so far I am sticking with the comp.
D-der
01-15-2024, 07:41 PM
125 rounds of four brands of 124 grain ammo through two PMM'd 365s / two 10 round and two 15 round mags / most one handed / half support hand / freezing temp / lint on my carry gun / no stoppages. I'll be shooting these more but so far I am sticking with the comp.
My experience with a PMM comped XL slide pretty much parallels this, I know it's apples (3.1") vs oranges (3.7") but, multiple brands and weights of ammo, strong hand, support hand, intentional limp wrist, 18-90+ degrees, 3000+ rds with stock and Magguts mags and zero failures of any kind.
vandal
01-22-2024, 07:45 PM
Looking forward to this
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2a3DRvv2do/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Looking forward to this
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2a3DRvv2do/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
What are we looking at?
vandal
01-22-2024, 08:44 PM
Radian Afterburner 365!
What are we looking at?
What are we looking at?
A comp even more expensive than the PMM. Which is already 75% the cost of a 365.
Biggy
01-23-2024, 12:00 PM
Looking forward to this
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2a3DRvv2do/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Here is a little more info on the Radian P365 comp. The guy said they opened up the ports a little more on this model. If I was going to get a comp for my P365XL Macro pistol, it would be between the Radian or the Monsoon Tactical’s Helport.
https://youtu.be/hid6ukD4pro?si=8XhoXPCe_M8yEMwB
https://youtu.be/JF50NWuSfZo?si=HRzHWoIcXlqw17-v
RealSelf
05-10-2024, 07:18 AM
Would this 3.1 365 model Radian barrel be expected to be reliable with 124 gr. +P Critical Duty or HST, etc? That would be my hope but have to say that seems a bit unlikely, maybe with a different recoil spring if they make a guide rod for it in time?
WobblyPossum
05-10-2024, 09:05 AM
I don’t think anyone has any real hands on time with the Radian setup at this time. Last I heard they hadn’t been released yet. It’s still not even listed on Radian’s website. I don’t have any personal experience running the 124gr +P HST or CD, but the Gold Dot equivalent is our only authorized duty ammo and it seems to work just fine in authorized personally owned 3.1” barreled P365s and P365Xs that are pretty common. Kicks a decent bit though.
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