California's drought and water theft

[Savage Hands]

So I've seen more articles lately about serious water theft by the illegal marijuana farmers like this one: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/23/water-theft-marijuana-farmers-california-american-west
They are stealing from fire hydrants to the point that the fire hydrants are removed all together in many areas.
They are stealing from farmers, sometimes by force or coercion.
They are stealing our water from the aqueducts, rivers, lakes, private wells, homes etc...
In some areas they are leaving very little left for the fish and wildlife.
Let's not even get into the violence surrounding these illegal grows, Netflix has a documentary Murder Mountain https://www.netflix.com/title/80217475

What about the amount or pollution and degradation to the environment afterwards, why do the environmentalist give this industry a pass?

Living in California where it has been legal recreationally for awhile and even when it was not there are generations of people I know that are moderate to heavy users and treat it more as a lifestyle, I can say that I'm not a fan of it personally. I don't care if others use it in moderation as long as myself or my family do not have exposure to it, unfortunately even my neighborhood or even my son's school smells like a damn grateful dead concert at 7:45 am sometimes :mad: The amount of people smoking and driving is out of control. I have no solution, I just don't like the direction that this is all heading...

/old man rant

[Lex Luthier]

So I've seen more articles lately about serious water theft by the illegal marijuana farmers like this one: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/23/water-theft-marijuana-farmers-california-american-west
They are stealing from fire hydrants to the point that the fire hydrants are removed all together in many areas.
They are stealing from farmers, sometimes by force or coercion.
They are stealing our water from the aqueducts, rivers, lakes, private wells, homes etc...
In some areas they are leaving very little left for the fish and wildlife.
Let's not even get into the violence surrounding these illegal grows, Netflix has a documentary Murder Mountain https://www.netflix.com/title/80217475

What about the amount or pollution and degradation to the environment afterwards, why does the environmentalist give this industry a pass?

Living in California where it has been legal recreationally for awhile and even when it was not there are generations of people I know that are moderate to heavy users and treat it more as a lifestyle, I can say that I'm not a fan of it personally. I don't care if others use it in moderation as long as myself or my family do not have exposure to it, unfortunately even my neighborhood or even my son's school smells like a damn grateful dead concert at 7:45 am sometimes :mad: The amount of people smoking and driving is out of control. I have no solution, I just don't like the direction that this is all heading...

/old man rant

I hear you. It was pretty bad up the coast around Santa Cruz by the time we moved east in 2014. I'm not a fan, either. There was serious criminal activity and repercussions well up Highway 9.

[CCT125US]

To me, Cali is a different world. We have family out there, and I have a good friend who is a LEO for LBPD We took a family vacation out there many years ago, during some sort of water emergency. They only allowed so much water per day, "washed" dishes in filthy water, limited bathing, etc. I explained to them that where we're from in Ohio, we get our water from the ground, courtesy of a deep well pump, it is then returned to the earth through our leach bed. It is then reabsorbed by the earth, and the process is repeated. They were also shocked to learn that we have 2 creeks, a swamp, and several artesian wells on the property. I was floored when they asked how much that all cost.....

In defense of sane Californians, they are total liberal whack jobs. And before anyone goes and gets all butthurt over the use of that term, relax, I don't care.

[Trooper224]

California's been stealing water from surrounding states for decades. Karma's a bitch.

[Savage Hands]

California's been stealing water from surrounding states for decades. Karma's a bitch.

That's above my pay grade...

[Borderland]

Here's a good breakdown on California's water problem.

https://calmatters.org/environment/2021/06/california-water-shortage/

Bottom line. No matter how much water the pot growers steal, you're screwed.

[Jim Watson]

Reminds an old science fictioneer like me of 'Farmer In The Sky.'
Emigrate to Ganymede to escape a California with multiple nukes serving desalination plants. In the meanwhile, don't forget to add up your ration points after every meal.

[1slow]

California's been stealing water from surrounding states for decades. Karma's a bitch.


Yes.

My understanding is that if the aqueducts fail not enough water can be shipped in to prevent mass death.

CA dumped how many millions of acre-feet of fresh water ( 1 foot deep over an acre = 43,560 cubic feet of water = 325,828.8 gallons) into the ocean ?

[Navin Johnson]

A crisis or multiple crisis give politicians more power.....

Besides so what if you don't have water in California at least you have lots of cool hemp products..... I remember it wasn't that long ago that was the reason for legalizing marijuana.

The stupid f****** governor of the great state of Washington would blame it all on global warming or climate change or whatever is convenient this week.

[Borderland]

Their rapid transit system and those millions of acres of solar panels will save them. :D

[beenalongtime]

What about the amount or pollution and degradation to the environment afterwards, [B]why do the environmentalist give this industry a pass?


/old man rant

Probably because they are using the product and thinking the growers should just "chill out man".
I thought California was making tax revenue on this product and the growers were charging. Well use those funds (and up the prices) and build a desalination plant.:cool: (seems like the apt smiley, covering its eyes)

[JRB]

Probably because they are using the product and thinking the growers should just "chill out man".
I thought California was making tax revenue on this product and the growers were charging. Well use those funds (and up the prices) and build a desalination plant.:cool: (seems like the apt smiley, covering its eyes)

California did the California thing, and they tax legal growers so heavily and ignorantly that it's very difficult for them to compete with illegal grow ops.
So there's tons of illegal grow ops and comparatively very few 100% legal outfits.

[Joe in PNG]

And as more sane people leave, the state will just get more stupid.

[Mark D]

Water security is a long-term challenge throughout most of the western US. Even the mighty Ogallala aquifer is declining. We'll need to make significant investments in capture and recharge projects or face real crisis in the future.


California did the California thing, and they tax legal growers so heavily and ignorantly that it's very difficult for them to compete with illegal grow ops.
So there's tons of illegal grow ops and comparatively very few 100% legal outfits.

Yep, The state completed fucked up the de-criminalization process. I know a number of folks who are regulators for legal cannabis grows. The state legalized the crop, thinking there was going to be a massive influx of tax dollars into state coffers. But the regulatory environment is so onerous that very few growers get the requisite permits. Those that do are usually deep-pocket firms that can afford the consulting fees to jump through the regulatory hurdles. The small mom and pop growers often lack the regulatory sophistication and financial resources to get legal.

To make matters worse, the state made illegal commercial cultivation of cannabis a misdemeanor (it was formerly a felony). This has further incentivized illegal growers.

Naturally, the expected windfall of tax and permit fees never really happened, at least on the state level. At the local level, cities can rake in big money in licensing "dispensaries". Dispensaries are basically boutiques for smokable and edible cannabis products, and are highly profitable. Most cities only approve a small handful of them, and unsurprisingly, there seems to be a lot of backroom deals and border-line corruption associated with the process.

And let's not forget the organized crime connection - a lot of the big illegal grows have connections to Mexican cartels, who import growers and chemicals from south of the border to grow massive crops on publics lands, at huge environmental costs.



What about the amount or pollution and degradation to the environment afterwards, why do the environmentalist give this industry a pass?

Good question. I think it's more fashionable to virtue signal about climate change, solar panels, electric cars, and the evils of the oil industry.

For those with further interest in the environmental damage of illegal Cannabis cultivation, and the risks that California Game Wardens have to deal with, here's an excellent podcast https://www.themeateater.com/listen/meateater/ep-179-the-weed-warden

[rob_s]

The show that SH mentions, Murder Mountain (Seen “Murder Mountain” on Netflix yet? https://www.netflix.com/us/title/80217475?s=i&trkid=13747225&vlang=en&clip=81062232), seems to be a good window into the industry and they talk to several folks that are supposedly trying to transition from illegal to legal grower. The show is ostensibly about one particular kid that turned up dead but there’s a lot more that you see in the interviews, etc. as they set up the story.

[randyho]

John Nores has some interesting history here. Former California Department of Fish and Wildlife Marijuana Enforcement Team:

https://youtu.be/NX51rdVFANY

[trailrunner]

I grew up in California in the 1970s, and some of these problems were around then. I remember reading stories of illegal MJ farms hidden in the mountains, and what happened to people who innocently strayed into them. Made me a little concerned when I was hiking around the back country. In the 1970s we had some serious droughts. I think it was the summer of '77 when the water restrictions were pretty severe. We left in '91, and they were threatening another round of severe restrictions around that time. But California has been stealing water for a long time, while continuing to grow, so even back then I didn't see how this was going to work out in a good way.

[Borderland]

Cali just has a lot of challenges. Probably why so many people are moving away. One of my neighbors is retired from the CA penal system. He moved away to avoid the state income taxes on his retirement. WA has no state income tax. When I tell people who don't live here that fact they're usually surprised. We have a very high sales tax but that allows a person to decide if they want to pay it or not for big ticket items.

[rob_s]

Cali just has a lot of challenges. Probably why so many people are moving away. One of my neighbors is retired from the CA penal system. He moved away to avoid the state income taxes on his retirement. WA has no state income tax. When I tell people who don't live here that fact they're usually surprised. We have a very high sales tax but that allows a person to decide if they want to pay it or not for big ticket items.

Every time someone in Florida complains about the tourist industry, I ask if they like having no state income tax. If so, thank a tourist.

That said, it’s be great if we could fence the tourists in…:p

It would also be great if, when they decide to become permanent, or even semi-permanent, they’d keep their opinions to themselves regarding how the state is run. You already destroyed wherever you’re from with your stupid ideas. If it was so great there you’re welcome to go back. That plane that brought you heat goes both ways.

As various levels of people I CA get sick of the shit they’ve created, or tolerated, it’ll be interesting to see that infection spread.

The problem with these people is they think they are so correct in how things should be that (a) they seem to have missed how bad they screwed up and (b) they can’t seem to help themselves meddling and (c) the rest of us, prior to being invaded, just want to leave be and be left be.

[Borderland]

Every time someone in Florida complains about the tourist industry, I ask if they like having no state income tax. If so, thank a tourist.

That said, it’s be great if we could fence the tourists in…:p

It would also be great if, when they decide to become permanent, or even semi-permanent, they’d keep their opinions to themselves regarding how the state is run. You already destroyed wherever you’re from with your stupid ideas. If it was so great there you’re welcome to go back. That plane that brought you heat goes both ways.

As various levels of people I CA get sick of the shit they’ve created, or tolerated, it’ll be interesting to see that infection spread.

The problem with these people is they think they are so correct in how things should be that (a) they seem to have missed how bad they screwed up and (b) they can’t seem to help themselves meddling and (c) the rest of us, prior to being invaded, just want to leave be and be left be.

I hear that. Lots of people complain about WA but if it's so GD bad why are so many people moving here. I'm sure FL is the same way. I can't even find a house to buy under 600K built in the last 25 years. I'm not looking in the metro tri county areas either.

[rob_s]

I hear that. Lots of people complain about WA but if it's so GD bad why are so many people moving here. I can't even find a house to buy under 600K built in the last 25 years. I'm not looking in the metro areas either.

That’s kinda always fucked Florida over too.

Dude sells a 50 year old split level 3/2 in White Plains for $1M and moves down to Florida and buys a 5/2 for $350k. And then complains nonstop.

[DC_P]

The stupid f****** governor of the great state of Washington would blame it all on global warming or climate change or whatever is convenient this week.

You forgot COVID, Trump, and social injustice, which are clearly the reason for every current problem.

[rob_s]

and social injustice, which are clearly the reason for every current problem.

Well in a way…

The left’s opportunistic manipulation of the “facts” regarding this, and the right’s counter-opportunism are almost certainly part of our current problems.

Gotta keep ‘EM separated…

[Savage Hands]

Just a reminder, not all Californians agree with how things are run on a state or local level but we are outnumbered by the crazies. There are plenty here on this forum that are not part of the problem.

[Suvorov]

. We have a very high sales tax but that allows a person to decide if they want to pay it or not for big ticket items.

And yet, your high sales tax is no worse than or high sale tax, but then we add gas tax, income tax, property tax, food workers health care tax, fat tax, and the list goes on.

The answer to the question is simple - California has been so mismanaged by the government that there is no saving it. Pity really as is used to border on paradise……..

[BehindBlueI's]

If the users would prefer, I can move this to Politics. If not, stick to the rules for General Discussion.

[0ddl0t]

The show that SH mentions, Murder Mountain (Seen “Murder Mountain” on Netflix yet? https://www.netflix.com/us/title/80217475?s=i&trkid=13747225&vlang=en&clip=81062232), seems to be a good window into the industry and they talk to several folks that are supposedly trying to transition from illegal to legal grower. The show is ostensibly about one particular kid that turned up dead but there’s a lot more that you see in the interviews, etc. as they set up the story.

The series wasn't very popular with the locals:

74831

[rob_s]

I hear that. Lots of people complain about WA but if it's so GD bad why are so many people moving here. I'm sure FL is the same way. I can't even find a house to buy under 600K built in the last 25 years. I'm not looking in the metro tri county areas either.

Looks like we will be getting more CA moonbats here soon.

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2021/07/15/orlando-florida-jobs-lake-nona-disney.html

Here’s hoping it’s the jobs moving and not (all?j the people…

[Borderland]

Looks like we will be getting more CA moonbats here soon.

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2021/07/15/orlando-florida-jobs-lake-nona-disney.html

Here’s hoping it’s the jobs moving and not (all?j the people…

I think people from CA are mostly moving to TX and AZ. There's a sizable construction boom in LV and Reno also.

[Mark D]

Yep, The state completed fucked up the de-criminalization process...

Naturally, the expected windfall of tax and permit fees never really happened, at least on the state level. At the local level, cities can rake in big money in licensing "dispensaries". Dispensaries are basically boutiques for smokable and edible cannabis products, and are highly profitable. Most cities only approve a small handful of them, and unsurprisingly, there seems to be a lot of backroom deals and border-line corruption associated with the process.



So, the corruption associated with licensing cannabis businesses is not always "borderline" .

https://www.ksby.com/news/local-news/cannabis-retail-shop-founder-charged-with-bribing-slo-county-supervisor

"a cannabis retailer with shops in Grover Beach and Morro Bay has been charged in federal court with bribery and failing to report millions of dollars in income to the IRS.

Dayspring admitted to bribing San Luis Obispo County District 3 Supervisor Adam Hill to further his cannabis businesses. Dayspring reportedly started bribing Hill in the fall of 2016, paying him a total of $32,000 in cash and money orders. In exchange, federal prosecutors say Hill voted multiple times in favor of legislation that permitted Dayspring's cannabis farms to operate before he had obtained final permitting approvals. Dayspring also admitted to trying to bribe the mayor of Grover Beach in 2017 in exchange for two dispensary licenses."