Zeleny v. Bonta: a Small Win for Gun Rights

[zeleny]

Zeleny v. Bonta, né Zeleny v. Brown (https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6363698/zeleny-v-brown/), in District Court, N.D. California (3:17-cv-07357): Judge rules (https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.320867/gov.uscourts.cand.320867.192.0.pdf) that “Menlo Park’s [special event permitting] process and film permitting process are facially unconstitutional prior restraints” in my lawsuit seeking to carry firearms during a protest.

Long story short, unloaded open and concealed carry is about to become legal again in California, upon receipt of a “shall issue” Entertainment Firearms Permit, preferably accompanied by “shall issue” film or entertainment event permits.

Elsewhere in his ruling, Judge Seeborg notes that the First Amendment protects only conduct that is intended to convey a particularized message, implicitly disregarding the particularized message of open carry formulated by the Black Panthers in 1967: “We won’t go down without a fight.” Moreover, in regard of plaintiff’s Equal Protection claim, he insinuates, but fails to spell out, the rational basis for discriminating against the Black Panthers, in favor of makers of a movie about them.

[0ddl0t]

Outstanding!

[paherne]

Congratulations. Interesting decision with lots of take aways for the mandarins that work for most city governments.

[runcible]

Congratulations. Interesting decision with lots of take aways for the mandarins that work for most city governments.

Weird; do you think those of other races will also have take-aways from it? :confused:

[runcible]

I don't know how this provides for improving the position of non-belligerents.

"Zeleny’s motion for summary judgment against the State is denied in its entirety, and the State’s cross-motion for summary judgment is granted in its entirety. Zeleny’s motion for summary judgment against Menlo Park and Dave Bertini is granted as to its request for judgment that Menlo Park’s SEP permitting process and film permitting process are facially unconstitutional prior restraints, and denied in all other respects. The cross-motion for summary judgment brought by Menlo Park and Dave Bertini is granted as to its request for judgment that Zeleny may not seek injunctive relief against Bertini under Ex Parte Young, and denied in all other respects."

I feel bad for those that had to put up with the theatrics along the way.

[paherne]

Weird; do you think those of other races will also have take-aways from it? :confused:

Am I missing the sarcasm?

[zeleny]

I don't know how this provides for improving the position of non-belligerents.California law exempts authorized participants in film or video productions and entertainment events from its bans on open and concealed carry of firearms. Supreme Court precedents deny the state the authority to restrict speech based on its material trappings and degree of professionalism. Strap on your smartphone set to record video, and you are good to go.

[Clusterfrack]

zeleny, jetfire, knock it off. Pistol Forum doesn’t need to keep witnessing your spats.

I’m deleting the post with the homophobic slur. Actually, I’m just going to delete a bunch of posts and see what happens.

Locked threads and timeouts are the next steps.

[cheby]

I miss Doodie Project

[BehindBlueI's]

upon receipt of a “shall issue” Entertainment Firearms Permit

So you can pay about $100 to get that one year permit (then cheaper to renew annually), then if required get a filming permit for the location, and then carry an empty weapon while you film it when/where your permit is for?

Congrats, I guess. CA must suck indeed if that's a win.

[Hambo]

Long story short, unloaded open and concealed carry is about to become legal again in California, upon receipt of a “shall issue” Entertainment Firearms Permit, preferably accompanied by “shall issue” film or entertainment event permits.


If BBI is correct below:


So you can pay about $100 to get that one year permit (then cheaper to renew annually), then if required get a filming permit for the location, and then carry an empty weapon while you film it when/where your permit is for?

Then this is mainly about the ability to protest while ostensibly filming? Even if you have permits and a camera and can carry in daily like, I'm unclear on the benefit of having an unloaded pistol. Can you carry a loaded magazine while filming?

[rcbusmc24]

Nevermind, my snark is running at a high rate of speed today....

[farscott]

California law exempts authorized participants in film or video productions and entertainment events from its bans on open and concealed carry of firearms. Supreme Court precedents deny the state the authority to restrict speech based on its material trappings and degree of professionalism. Strap on your smartphone set to record video, and you are good to go.

Other than Menlo Park having to revise the permitting process, I do not understand how this is a win for carry of weapons, open or concealed. If a permit issued for an entertainment production allows one to carry a weapon, the state can revise the requirements governing how permits are issued. Since everyone now has a camera on their person and the permit is "shall issue", there would be no way for the state to restrict the carrying of weapons unless the definition of what is required to satisfy the entertainment exemption is changed. And the decision clearly stated the state has a valid and compelling interest in regulating the carry of weapons, open or concealed. As such, the legislature could update the entertainment requirements as the intent of that exemption was not to allow a cell phone being carried by an individual to act as a justification for carrying a weapon.

[zeleny]

Other than Menlo Park having to revise the permitting process, I do not understand how this is a win for carry of weapons, open or concealed. If a permit issued for an entertainment production allows one to carry a weapon, the state can revise the requirements governing how permits are issued. Since everyone now has a camera on their person and the permit is "shall issue", there would be no way for the state to restrict the carrying of weapons unless the definition of what is required to satisfy the entertainment exemption is changed. And the decision clearly stated the state has a valid and compelling interest in regulating the carry of weapons, open or concealed. As such, the legislature could update the entertainment requirements as the intent of that exemption was not to allow a cell phone being carried by an individual to act as a justification for carrying a weapon.Menlo Park also has to pay my attorneys’ fees and costs, which will act as a deterrent to further local yokel shenanigans. As to the legislature updating the relevant firearms carry exemption requirements, generally speaking, non-commercial photography and videography requires no permits whatsoever, and moreover, permit issuance may depend only on time, place, and manner restrictions clearly defined in advance, because the First Amendment. Consequently, if the content of your speech involves openly carried firearms, you have the right to carry firearms openly in its course.

On a historical note, California’s 2012 and 2013 bans of open carry were enacted to squelch organized protests. This ruling allows such protests to resume.

[zeleny]

Can you carry a loaded magazine while filming?The controlling law is People v. Clark (1996) (https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/4th/45/1147.html) 45 Cal.App.4th 1147 , 53 Cal.Rptr.2d 99, holding that in order to be “loaded” a firearm must have ammunition “placed into a position from which it can be fired”. Loaded magazines are legal to carry just about anywhere, outside of courthouses and such.

[paherne]

This decision is important not for firearms, but as a win against the oppressive "Karen" regulations promulgated by many City Councils that don't REALLY believe that the Constitution restricts their power. I work in the county in question and have been employed in local government since 1990. I've been involved in planning and permitting discussions for numerous parades, events, celebrations, etc. In all of those meetings, I have been the only one to ever bring up constitutional rights when making a decision on an issue. Vagueness is a serious problem with many municipal codes, which mostly follow a model. Remember, the bottom of the class in medical school is still called doctor and the bottom of the class in Law school is called City Attorney, in most cases.

While it is obvious that Zeleny's protest was stupid and ineffective, it ain't government's job to decide who gets to protest, based on which powerful interests are offended. Menlo Park is about as smug and woke as a City can get. Their Streisand-effect antics led to this decision.

[zeleny]

While it is obvious that Zeleny's protest was stupid and ineffective, it ain't government's job to decide who gets to protest, based on which powerful interests are offended. Menlo Park is about as smug and woke as a City can get. Their Streisand-effect antics led to this decision.Opinions differ. I am of the mind that the stupidest choice in this life is working for hire, because your employer collects your surplus value and fires you at will. As for ineffective, my performance art has funded itself and kept me in beer and skittles over the past 16 years, while its collateral benefits included the banishment of an incestuous ChiCom paedophile, and valuable Constitutional lessons taught to Bay Area authorities at their own expense. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

[paherne]

Opinions differ. I am of the mind that the stupidest choice in this life is working for hire, because your employer collects your surplus value and fires you at will. As for ineffective, my performance art has funded itself and kept me in beer and skittles over the past 16 years, while its collateral benefits included the banishment of an incestuous ChiCom paedophile, and valuable Constitutional lessons taught to Bay Area authorities at their own expense. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

You have convinced no one. No one. The people that drove by your performance art were either scared, or thought, "What a weirdo." No one thought, "Gee, I want to be on that guy's team." I support your right to protest. I also think you're probably on the spectrum and fail to realize how out of the norm your behavior is. The City of Menlo Park is not going to hold a Zeleny Day Parade and you are not getting to shag the prom queen. Freedom is scary, and I realize all of its implications. Like Larry Flynt and the Hustler obscenity ruling, you won, but don't expect any dinner party invitations.

[farscott]

So Menlo Park got the hero the city deserves, not the hero the city needs.

On a more serious note, egregious abridgments of freedom seem to spark egregious acts by those acting to lessen the shackles on personal liberty. I may not agree that Zeleny moved the needle, but I admire his willingness to make change happen by working within the system. Nothing is more American than acting out against tyranny. And he did it without violence.

[zeleny]

You have convinced no one. No one. The people that drove by your performance art were either scared, or thought, "What a weirdo." No one thought, "Gee, I want to be on that guy's team." I support your right to protest. I also think you're probably on the spectrum and fail to realize how out of the norm your behavior is. The City of Menlo Park is not going to hold a Zeleny Day Parade and you are not getting to shag the prom queen. Freedom is scary, and I realize all of its implications. Like Larry Flynt and the Hustler obscenity ruling, you won, but don't expect any dinner party invitations.Follow the money, sunshine. I started this gig sixteen years ago with zero capital on hand, by forgoing $72,500,000.00 in litigation assets. Over the years, my costs of performance art have added up in the low seven figures. And yet here I am, living the life of Riley on Mt Olympus. Figure out my rates of return accordingly.

As for being on the spectrum, I own it ever since my four year old son has been so diagnosed. Boo-fucking-hoo.

[TGS]

Follow the money, sunshine. I started this gig sixteen years ago with zero capital on hand, by forgoing $72,500,000.00 in litigation assets. Over the years, my costs of performance art have added up in the low seven figures. And yet here I am, living the life of Riley on Mt Olympus. Figure out my rates of return accordingly.

As for being on the spectrum, I own it ever since my four year old son has been so diagnosed. Boo-fucking-hoo.

Just to be clear.....

....are you actually bragging about making a career out of suing people?

[RancidSumo]

I did not read the opinion and offer no opinion of my own on the merits of the case or the benefits of the win, but I will say that suits like this add to the long list of evidence that proves God loves lawyers.

[zeleny]

So Menlo Park got the hero the city deserves, not the hero the city needs.

On a more serious note, egregious abridgments of freedom seem to spark egregious acts by those acting to lessen the shackles on personal liberty. I may not agree that Zeleny moved the needle, but I admire his willingness to make change happen by working within the system. Nothing is more American than acting out against tyranny. And he did it without violence.Thanks for your kind words. In my native land, there is a tradition of schooling the state in its own laws. I started out in the fall of 1976 by joining the ranks of the Moscow Helsinki Group (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refusenik#International_pressure). Eleven years earlier, on 5 December 1965, my hero and future drinking companion Alexander Esenin-Volpin (http://webct.biz/yesseninvolpin/bio.html) said it best: “Abide by the Constitution! Understand the laws as they are written, not as the authorities interpret them.” Words to live by in our constitutional republic.

[zeleny]

Just to be clear.....

....are you actually bragging about making a career out of suing people?No, not that. I made the point of standing up for my rights. Prevailing in civil and criminal lawsuits is incidental to this commitment.

[zeleny]

I did not read the opinion and offer no opinion of my own on the merits of the case or the benefits of the win, but I will say that suits like this add to the long list of evidence that proves God loves lawyers.Consider the alternatives. In my native land, problems like mine are solved with lead or poison. I’d rather rely on due process.

[RancidSumo]

Consider the alternatives. In my native land, problems like mine are solved with lead or poison. I’d rather rely on due process.

Speaking as one of God's chosen people, you'll get no argument from me.

[TGS]

No, not that. I made the point of standing up for my rights. Prevailing in civil and criminal lawsuits is incidental to this commitment.

lulz.

There's some "wordsmithing" if I ever saw it.

[DDTSGM]

https://i.imgflip.com/5hctbe.jpg

[zeleny]

lulz.

There's some "wordsmithing" if I ever saw it.Help me out here, snookums. Is this some kind of neurotypical slur, like my failing to realize how out of the norm my behavior is, and not getting to shag the prom queen? Do you normies sincerely expect everyone to toe your line and hanker after the objects of your concupiscence? How does this outlook coexist with appreciation of the pistol, as the plebeian counterpart to the ultima ratio regum? Wouldn’t you be better served by bending over and taking it like a man from anyone stronger or richer?

[BehindBlueI's]

This is obviously heading nowhere worth going.