Federal 9mm HST redesign

[overton]

Just a question, as Federal has changed it's packaging from the golden box to the new design.

Has bullet performance changed too? I think it was here that somebody wrote that the 147gr. load's bullet design was changed.

https://www.dark-storm.com/images/detailed/10/FED-P9HST2_2p9d-qr_j0sa-b6.jpg

https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-vkoe7psl7v/products/8717/images/10365/029465094447__41493.1611426792.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

[BehindBlueI's]

Short answer: 147gr changed to increase performance in auto glass testing but now expands less robustly. Penetration is still good. "Old" ammo has one cannelure if you pull a bullet. "New" has two. If there are any new new changes, I don't know.

[Shotgun]

Short answer: 147gr changed to increase performance in auto glass testing but now expands less robustly. Penetration is still good. "Old" ammo has one cannelure if you pull a bullet. "New" has two. If there are any new new changes, I don't know.

This is what I use. Is the new HST on Doc's list?

[witchking777]

This is what I use. Is the new HST on Doc's list?

Here is my testing of the newer 147 gr HST vs the 124 gr+p HST in different mediums. Read pages 16-19.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?43447-New-Duty-Load/page16

[overton]

Thanks! Also, my old stash has no visible sealing lacquer, while the new one has green visible one.

[revchuck38]

This is what I use. Is the new HST on Doc's list?

Apparently not, since his list here on P-F was last edited in 2016. I'm currently using the 124-grain +P version from new boxes; I don't know if it's been changed and don't plan on switching if it has. I really think we're in "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" territory here.

From his posting on service caliber ammo:


The keys are:

-- Cultivate a warrior mindset
-- Invest in competent, thorough initial training and then maintain skills with regular ongoing practice
-- Acquire a reliable and durable weapon system
-- Purchase a consistent, robust performing duty/self-defense load in sufficient quantities (at least 1000 rounds) then STOP worrying about the nuances of handgun ammunition terminal performance.

[BehindBlueI's]

I'm currently using the 124-grain +P version from new boxes; I don't know if it's been changed and don't plan on switching if it has.

That's our current duty load and it has been working as expected.

[03RN]

I want a box to pull the bullets and load them to 1250fps for my .357s:cool:

[olstyn]

I want a box to pull the bullets and load them to 1250fps for my .357s:cool:

Given that .357 bullets are usually .358 diameter and 9mm bullets are usually .355 or .356, that may or may not work well in terms of accuracy, depending on what your barrel(s) like. Not saying don't try it, just that you'll have to test it out in order to determine whether it actually works well. Also I suppose there's some possibility that adding 2-300 FPS may put the bullets outside of their designed-for velocity window and negatively impact expansion and/or penetration - again, something to test.

[DocGKR]

As noted, "new" HST still works fine, but a bit less expansion in order to optimize barrier penetration.

[03RN]

Given that .357 bullets are usually .358 diameter and 9mm bullets are usually .355 or .356, that may or may not work well in terms of accuracy, depending on what your barrel(s) like. Not saying don't try it, just that you'll have to test it out in order to determine whether it actually works well. Also I suppose there's some possibility that adding 2-300 FPS may put the bullets outside of their designed-for velocity window and negatively impact expansion and/or penetration - again, something to test.

Jacketed .357 bullets are just that. Groove diameter are .355 iirc. So it's not that far off.

If they're a bit harder than the bullets originally were they might do ok at 1250.

Who knows

[olstyn]

Jacketed .357 bullets are just that. Groove diameter are .355 iirc. So it's not that far off.

If they're a bit harder than the bullets originally were they might do ok at 1250.

Who knows

Right, and some 9mm guns actually like .357 or .358 bullets better than what should be normal for them. My point was really just that you can't assume without testing, especially when it comes to something that might be used for something where bullet performance matters like self defense or hunting.

[03RN]

Right, and some 9mm guns actually like .357 or .358 bullets better than what should be normal for them. My point was really just that you can't assume without testing, especially when it comes to something that might be used for something where bullet performance matters like self defense or hunting.

Agreed. It would really just be for testing. I'm happy with xtps or SWCs for carry

[BehindBlueI's]

Agreed. It would really just be for testing. I'm happy with xtps or SWCs for carry

How many would you be looking for?

[03RN]

How many would you be looking for?

I'm not sure. I don't have a good way to test them in a media right now which I think would be necessary.

[witchking777]

As noted, "new" HST still works fine, but a bit less expansion in order to optimize barrier penetration.

Given this,would you still recommend the 147 over the 124 +p? Thanks!

[BobM]

Didn’t Cor-Bon somehow “bump” up the diameter of the Sierra 115 JHP for one of their early 38 Special loads? I don’t know if a handloader could do that at home or not.

[DocGKR]

Yes.

[Velo Dog]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQg_D7mcVRw
tnoutdoors9 AMMO REVIEW: 9mm 147 gr Federal HST in Calibrated Gel (2021)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQg_D7mcVRw

[Cool Breeze]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQg_D7mcVRw
tnoutdoors9 AMMO REVIEW: 9mm 147 gr Federal HST in Calibrated Gel (2021)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQg_D7mcVRw
Great vid. Kind of makes me like the older version better as I have never heard of penetration issues with it. I haven't researched it though. Thanks again.

[BBMW]

I think the changes might push me more to the 124gr +P loading. Better expansion with still pretty good penetration.


Great vid. Kind of makes me like the older version better as I have never heard of penetration issues with it. I haven't researched it though. Thanks again.

[revchuck38]

I think the changes might push me more to the 124gr +P loading. Better expansion with still pretty good penetration.

I think we're into "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" territory here. I use the 124-grain +P version because it shoots to the sights on my guns and it's easier and cheaper to find 124-grain projectiles to reload for practice. I'd be comfortable switching to anything on Doc's list if the need arose.

[the Schwartz]

I think the changes might push me more to the 124gr +P loading. Better expansion with still pretty good penetration.

It's hard to beat the Speer Gold Dot 124-grain +P JHP, Winchester Ranger T-series 124-grain +P JHP, or the Federal HST 124-grain +P JHP for the balance of expansion and penetration that they offer.

[blues]

Personally, I don't think I'd stop carrying the 147 gr HST standard based on the above. I think most of mine is the older version, but either way.

I have a lot more of that on hand than the 124 gr +P and standard...but all work fine out of my Glocks...with the 147 shooting a little better overall.

[Hambo]

Personally, I don't think I'd stop carrying the 147 gr HST standard based on the above. I think most of mine is the older version, but either way.

I have a lot more of that on hand than the 124 gr +P and standard...but all work fine out of my Glocks...with the 147 shooting a little better overall.

I'm sure mine is the older version, but I don't care. It will be the least of my problems if I get in a gunfight.

[blues]

I'm sure mine is the older version, but I don't care. It will be the least of my problems if I get in a gunfight.

Ain't it the truth.

[LockedBreech]

I've stuck with 147-gr. HST and am also unconcerned about the small adjustment. I'd expect a professional developer with lots of professional clients to continue small refinements, but I think my 147-gr. stockpile (which probably has a bit of each based on the dates I bought it) is probably still better than 90+% of 9mm JHPs, runs well in my guns, and as has been noted, is a distant priority compared to me putting rounds on target.