I want to take QUALITY indoor pictures for Gunbroker items

[Welder]

I almost put this in the Gallery subforum, but changed my mind. Mods can move it there if better, but I figure no pics in here thus it's more likely GD material.

I've always had good success advertising and selling on CL with good clear outdoor pics and good descriptions. I've sold some of my firearm collection here, but I still have the remainder to sell plus an item or two that wasn't advertised here. I'm going to do GB and was looking at some of the postings....obviously an item that has 42 high-resolution, well-lit but glare-absent pictures is selling way better than the same item in likely the same condition with 4 poorly-lit pictures.

One of the pieces I need to sell will probably go for five figures, with the others bringing in maybe an additional $5k altogether...so it's worth investing in a quality camera and whatever I might need to produce proper lighting without glare, which is something I've always fought in the past.

I know not to make the backgrounds busy or trashy looking, and I'm considering a satin white backdrop for the pictures although I'll experiment with other options as well....what I'm mainly hoping for from y'all is advice on the type of digital camera I should use and anything you might have to say about lighting. My most valuable piece is a pistol, and the other stuff is going to be a mix of long- and handguns, many of which have wood stocks that I'd like to get good, clear pictures of with proper lighting and again, no glare.

I'll probably peruse our pawn shops in town once some camera specs are forthcoming, and the same with lighting which I can also make up myself, maybe? Your thoughts welcome on the equipment and subject in general. :)

ETA I've used a Lumix camera in the past with good success, and I do have a tripod. Maybe I just can't get the lighting right, or maybe the camera's 20 years old and has seen better days, but it just doesn't do well inside. Also, idk if anyone will suggest using a cell phone, but I'm really more interested in using an actual camera...

[ccmdfd]

Ken Lunde used to take some of the best gun photos ever. Not sure if he's still in the craft or not, or posting info on the web.

IIRC, the most bang for the buck method he used was getting the lighting right. Most any moder digital camera should have more than enough resolution for a GB add. The lighting though can be tricky.

Another thought; browse GB for some listings which have good photography, and pm the seller and ask how they did it.

[Snapshot]

Editorial / advertising / artistic photos use careful lighting to create a dramatic appearance - "light reveals, shadow defines". The specular highlight along e.g. a barrel or frame created by a long, narrow light source, often with a grid or snoot, the satin sheen on a stock created by a sidelight that skims the edge, etc. Advertising in particular can also use tilts and shifts to manipulate the way the subject is projected onto the sensor, and some similar effects can be obtained with software and post-processing techniques.

For business purposes including sales and insurance ("product" photography) I don't think you need the drama, but things like exposure, focus, depth of field, and color rendition are important. Inexpensive LED light panels (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1492247-REG/gvm_800d_rgb_led_video_studio.html) combined with digital camera screens make it much easier than it used to be with strobes and film to see the effect of your light placement.

You will want a camera that has adjustments for shutter speed, aperture, ISO and color temperature, and some time and patience to work with these.

Adequate light allows a smaller aperture which will help with depth of field. Light that you control can be adjusted to give consistent results, avoid hot spots, and provide even illumination. Things like bedsheets, shower curtains, etc. can be used as diffusers, and foam core, foil and even plain paper can be used as reflectors to get light into areas that need to be illuminated. Cardboard, foil, and other things can be used a scrims or barn doors to block light from certain areas. Commercial versions of these are easier to work with and more durable.

Color can entail a lot of effort to balance, calibrate, manage, etc. but for "product" photos something like the X-Rite Color Checker (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1464532-REG/x_rite_msccpp_b_colorchecker_passport_photo_2.html ) can be used to adjust your camera (or sometimes lights) to produce accurate colors. A lot of this depends on what is going to be done with the result - if it will be viewed on a calibrated monitor or printed using a specified gamut that is one thing, if it will be posted on the internet and viewed using a cheap phone or tablet there is only so much you can do.

This article (https://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/07/how-to-diy-10-macro-photo-studio.html) is about macro photography using strobe, but the same ideas and DIY light tent can be used with LED.

Product links are just examples, I have no affiliation with B&H other than as a customer.

[OlongJohnson]

I have access to an indoor studio setup with a large overhead "soft box" diffuser for the flash, and I still struggle with reflections on shiny dark metal parts. When they're curved and contoured, there is seemingly always some part of them that you can't get to be at the angle to not reflect.

The goal for this is not drama. It's to show the buyer what they are getting as clearly as possible, so they have maximum confidence in their assessment of its condition and that they will be receiving the value they pay for. Although you do want it to look sexy if you can do so without distracting from the message.

Crop your images so they are focused on the gun. GB images are displayed no larger than 1200 pixels in the largest dimension, so any modern camera will vastly exceed this. Crop your photo to maximize the resolution that actually shows detail of the gun. At the price figures you're talking about, you may want to host images at much higher resolution on another site, or offer to email higher resolution images to people who bother to inquire.

Obscure the last couple digits of any visible serial number. This and the cropping can easily be done in MS Paint.

I recommend against white for a background. I like something close to a "neutral density" (I think this is "15%") grey for background. This will avoid setting up radical contrast/exposure differences with the item being photographed, and avoid weird reflections. Colored backgrounds can always bounce off the subject. Thin, medium-grey formica has worked well in the past (I bought my last panel of it at Lowe's, but had to special order it), and has the advantage that you can clean it if you're shooting greasy car parts. It's not as easy to replace as a roll of seamless paper.

I've ended up shooting my GB stuff outdoors on the smooth back of Harbor Freight grey floor mats. They are a little darker than theoretically ideal, but actually good for the black and dark colors of guns. Keep them clean and you don't have to worry about scratches, etc. I have a spot on my back patio where I can get soft afternoon light from the west and reflected light off the side of the garage coming from the east, and it works out pretty well to keep everything uniformly lit with decently warm color. Only get a limited amount of time per day, and it's weather-dependent.

Pretty much any modern quality DSLR will work fine. Nikon or Canon are the standbys. Something in the $500-800 range is likely to be current-tech full consumer/prosumer capability that will be more than good enough while sustaining your investment to do other things if you want for several years. Unlike film, where a quality camera could provide good service for a decade (or several), digital technology changes so fast that even the DSLRs are like cell phones. Today's new hotness is old and busted in five years and a paperweight in ten. You're renting the technology from history. On the other hand, you might be able to get yesterday's new hotness that will do everything you need for really cheap on fleabay. There are people who must have the latest stuff, and are always retiring 1-2 year old tech at favorable prices. Over. And. Over.

I prefer the lens selection of a DSLR, as most of the point-and-shoots have either quality issues or lack lens capability. You'll want the ability to stop down to f/16 or smaller to get good depth of field. Quality glass is worth it, but it doesn't have to be Leica. Nikon and Canon OE lenses are excellent, and the investment you make in lenses transfers from camera to camera. I bought my most-used lens more than 20 years and several camera bodies ago. I use a basic polarizing filter as a lens protector on every lens, and it also helps manage reflections.

Find a book or intro photo course that gets you a good understanding of the relationships between ISO, exposure time, aperture, depth of field, image distortion vs. lens length, etc. Optics are still optics, and the nuts and bolts of how they work haven't changed in any of our lifetimes.

Get a really good tripod, beefier than you think you'll need. Get it black, not aluminum colored. Silver reflections in dark subjects suhc. Get a good ball head. I like Manfrotto for tripod and head. This is another area where quality is a lifetime investment and will outlast all your cameras.

Get a remote release, so you can release the shutter without inducing any shake.

B&H Photo/Video and Adorama are excellent vendors.

Ken Rockwell's site is helpful, although he's somewhat opinionated and limited in that he doesn't seem to care or want to think about photography that isn't the kind of photography he does. He makes money if you use his affiliate links.

[LJP]

You’ve gotten a wealth of information in this thread so far, but here’s my $0.02 as an amateur photog. Based on my browsing GB, blue or green fabric background. Crop close. Zoom in on areas of interest. Macro lens on a DSLR body (I like Nikon). Use a reflector or a diffuser for your lights. The lighting will make or break your photos, so don’t be afraid to get good equipment here. Natural light is always good too. Early in the morning and late in the afternoon is generally known as the “golden hour” for dramatic lighting. Pay particular attention to depth of field, focus, and composition. You can do some really good work simply by carefully framing your subject.

[SmicVuh]

My first thought would be to recommend that you seek out a competent professional to help you with this. Forum member Jason F comes to mind.

That's not what you asked for, so I'll try to provide some lighting advice. Keep in mind that it is impossible to avoid reflections on well lit metallic objects. The trick is to get the reflections to be in a visually pleasing spot. "Angle of incidence equals angle of reflection." If your lens is pointed at a flat surface (like a semi-auto pistol slide), the lens will 'see' whatever is at the reflected angle. If you see a giant glare in the photograph, your lens is just 'seeing' the reflection of a light source in the area. Move it, black it out, put a large piece of diffusion in front of it...change it so it looks better.

Its kinda difficult to give lighting direction over the internet like this, but a blacked-out room is probably a good place to start. If your camera is at 6-o-clock in relation to the subject and looking down at the surface, a softbox at about 2:30 at a 45 degree angle probably looks good. Add a white bounce card at about 7-o-clock, and you probably have something that looks decent.

Good luck and have fun!

[Seven_Sicks_Two]

Just throwing this out there...

Rather than investing potentially thousands in a DSLR, lighting, tripod, and backgrounds... Maybe look into hiring a professional photographer for an afternoon?

[RoyGBiv]

For CL, etc, and for some other listings I do from time to time, I use the following cheapo home setup.

Clamp lamps : https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HHQ94C?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

Daylight (6000K) bulbs: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RC8FKYW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I find I need at least 2 pair to get well lit photos without shadows.

A lot of stuff gets shot on a white sheet, so I can edit out the background easily, leaving just the item itself in the photo.
Either Paint.NET or GIMP for simple free editing.

[RevolverRob]

I'm going to break with the crowd.

Daylight and an iPhone is all you need.

I shot these with my iPhone's portrait mode not 5-minutes ago. Are those full professional grade? No. But you can see the imperfections. If I photo'ed this gun all the way around and spent some time editing, they would be perfectly fine. The blurriness in these comes from the downsampling to host on P-F. Using a high quality image host is the key.

74437

[orionz06]

Image sensors record light. You need things to be bright AF. A bathtub and an overhead light with a cellphone will work just fine. A piece of foamboard and the sun works well too.

[Welder]

I really appreciate all of the replies. After doing some additional reading spurred by various comments here, I've realized a couple of things. First, the suggestion to have a professional do it is a good one and might make the most sense. Second, I do appreciate a good photograph and since I like equipment of all types, I'll probably do the boneheaded thing and forge ahead anyway with some decent used equipment. To that end, after a hot sweaty day, I called it quits early and went camera shopping. Best Buy has almost zip. Pawn shops have zip.

Our used camera shop didn't have what I was looking for, but I did learn some more stuff from them. They said that Nikon customer service was awful and that they recommended Canon for that reason alone. Also that Nikon had been having financial trouble recently. I did buy a Manfrotto tripod as suggested; they had a used professional-grade one for $139 and sold it to me for $125. It's got a head on it as well. Heavy thing and really smooth. They also said that parts availability for used cameras was about 5 years after production ended, and that what goes wrong is the shutter. It has a definite service life. Also that most / all good DSLR's have a shutter counter in them so you can get an idea of usage.

They had a Canon macro lens, I think it was 55mm, and it was $500. I didn't buy it. I have to read more and see if that's what I want and if that's a good price.

My research after the fact says that maybe I want a Canon 6D body. I also have about $15-$25k worth of stuff I want to eBay, and a camera like this would be good for that too. Need to figure the lens out before I go further. The eBay stuff would be max 4' long x 1' wide and tall. It's looking like I'll spend as much for a lens as for a quality used camera. And altogether will be in it for the price of 1-1.5 6920's. 1.5 for sure by the time I figure lighting out. But overall a small price to be able to advertise hundreds of pieces of stuff for sale with quality pictures. Plus I'll have another hobby with gadgets, and I do like gadgets.

[orionz06]

Eh, unless photography was to be a hobby moving forward, I'd grab some lights and use a phone, assuming you have a cell phone made within the last few years.

[Welder]

Eh, unless photography was to be a hobby moving forward, I'd grab some lights and use a phone, assuming you have a cell phone made within the last few years.

Well that's the rub, and why I said in my OP that I wasn't interested in using a phone. My phone is 6 years old and is the smallest smartphone you could buy at the time. It's NLA and the camera lens is all scratched up, but it fits in my pocket which is pretty much where a phone has to be for my job. I know these new phones have spiffy cameras, but once properly cased for my types of work environments, they're too big to stay on my person.

Also, since a lot of the stuff I'll be selling is for my business, this can be a business expense. Which makes it a lot easier to swallow.

[okie john]

Plenty of good advice thus far.

I'll add that each image has a different purpose. Some show particular scratches or damage, others highlight engraving or other critical details. If you're selling a long gun, then you should always include a full-length image that's free of distortion. If you're selling a bone-stock Marlin 336 or an M-4 variant, then you can probably skip this but if you're selling a bolt-action rifle, especially a custom, then you need to do this. Here's a classic example: https://stevebarnettfineguns.com/winchester-1-rifles-for-sale/winchester-model-70-pre-64-22-hornet-stocked-by-ben-slove

Hallowell also has excellent pictures of their guns as shown here http://www.hallowellco.com/dakota_arms_model_97_hunter%20330%20dakota.htm.

Simpsons does a good (although minimalist) job https://simpsonltd.com/husqvarna-640-z46182/

William Larkin Moore tends to err on the side of drama (https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/shotguns/piotti-shotguns/f-lli-piotti-droplock-40-fabio-41-28ga-30-quot-ic-m-fancy-turkish-walnut-abs-case-new.cfm?gun_id=101657373) but still does a good job despite leaving the occasional question.

Far too many gunbroker.com entries are badly distorted and you can't make out what you're actually getting. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/905424696 is a classic example. Plenty of detail shots but you don't get an overall sense of what you're buying like you do with Barnett, Hallowell, Simpsons, or Moore.


Okie John

[LOKNLOD]

Well that's the rub, and why I said in my OP that I wasn't interested in using a phone. My phone is 6 years old and is the smallest smartphone you could buy at the time. It's NLA and the camera lens is all scratched up, but it fits in my pocket which is pretty much where a phone has to be for my job. I know these new phones have spiffy cameras, but once properly cased for my types of work environments, they're too big to stay on my person.

Also, since a lot of the stuff I'll be selling is for my business, this can be a business expense. Which makes it a lot easier to swallow.

Buying a recent generation new or slightly used iPhone with the best camera as a dedicated rig that easily can upload pics is still a legit strategy and could be the simplest path. It doesn’t have to be your actual phone, just use it on wifi.

An iPad could be an option too.

[EricM]

The most important thing was covered in the first response, light is everything. Constant lighting will be easier to use than strobes from the perspective that you can see the effect of the lighting with the naked eye. To take full advantage of the light, a quality tripod such as you bought is key, because it lets you use as long of a shutter speed as is needed to let enough light hit the sensor for the proper exposure without having to crank up the ISO (degrading image quality). Using a tripod also lets you frame your shot carefully. Turn off image stabilization when using a tripod. A remote shutter release is great, otherwise configure the camera to use a delay of several seconds between pressing the shutter button and actually taking the picture. For some cameras, an app on your phone can be used as a wireless remote shutter release. Use an electronic first curtain shutter if your camera supports it. I'd suggest getting a copy of Lightroom to process your photos -- you use Lightroom to import them from the camera to your computer, then you can organize, compare, edit, and finally export them. I would recommend shooting in RAW mode with manual white balance and manual exposure...this ensures consistency in your photos and makes the most of your camera sensor's image quality. The ColorChecker mentioned earlier is indeed useful.

I think a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera could be a better fit than a DSLR for your purposes. Many to choose from but based on what I have used for years, you might consider something like this (https://www.ebay.com/itm/284344498828) (been listed for a few weeks, he'd probably take less). It's an older model but looks to be in very good condition and that lens is excellent. Unless you're taking very close-up photos, you may not need a true macro lens. For example, the lens in the auction I linked to can fill the frame with an item just over 2 inches wide.

I flipped through my past listings, here are a few representative photos (click for full size)...

https://cloverleafpistolgear.com/f/071721/1.jpg (https://cloverleafpistolgear.com/f/071721/full1.jpg)

https://cloverleafpistolgear.com/f/071721/2.jpg (https://cloverleafpistolgear.com/f/071721/full2.jpg)

https://cloverleafpistolgear.com/f/071721/3.jpg (https://cloverleafpistolgear.com/f/071721/full3.jpg)

[SecondsCount]

You can clean things up in photoshop or a free version like gimp but resolution and good lighting help.

This was taken on an old placemat on my kitchen floor, using the overhead fluorescent which has lots of diffusion, with a Samsung S8. Distance was around 4 feet which I think helps.

74471

Another on the same floor74474

[orionz06]

Well that's the rub, and why I said in my OP that I wasn't interested in using a phone. My phone is 6 years old and is the smallest smartphone you could buy at the time. It's NLA and the camera lens is all scratched up, but it fits in my pocket which is pretty much where a phone has to be for my job. I know these new phones have spiffy cameras, but once properly cased for my types of work environments, they're too big to stay on my person.

Also, since a lot of the stuff I'll be selling is for my business, this can be a business expense. Which makes it a lot easier to swallow.

I get that, I just want you to fully understand that there are loads of instances out there where folks just use phone pics and good technique. I've sold more stuff with cell phone pics than I have with $30k in camera gear. There's no comparison between the two, but there's no need either.

Photography is a hobby and that helps justify those costs, but you can get buy with even the tablet as suggested, and potentially use that far more.

[littlejerry]

A lot of modern phones have "advanced" or "pro" modes (like the Samsung Galaxy) that will allow you to adjust ISO, white balance, focus, shutter, etc. Not like a DSLR, but good enough for something that will get compressed for efficient hosting.

Spend your money/effort on lighting and backdrop. Buy white or grey sheets, get some lights with diffusers(or make your own diffusers), or set up a table(with sheets) outside.

[Welder]

So I had a bid out on a Canon 6D with lens, bag, etc on eBay and I ended up winning it. Sorry to all of the suggesters of using a cell phone; it's nothing personal, I just don't want to use a phone for the job and in my defense, I did say that up front. I'm looking forward to what might be a pretty cool new hobby; I've always appreciated quality photography.

Camera: Check
Tripod: Check
Lighting: Next
Editing Software: Also Next
Reading and Studying: In Process
Classes at Community College: Have to be scheduled by 9-13. Maybe....
Things to be Photographed: Check

[Welder]

Obscure the last couple digits of any visible serial number.

This is something I hear often, but never the reason for it. My most valuable piece will definitely have to show the entire number; that's where the value is. I often use S/N databases (Beretta's, for example) to verify that a gun is set up the way it originally came from the factory and to verify period authenticity...I'm much less likely to be interested in a pistol with a hidden S/N if there are others with visible ones in the same condition. And I'm not going to the trouble to ask for the number if there are others around in the same shape and same price range.

What's the reason for hiding it?

[OlongJohnson]

There are various shenanigans that a nefarious person could use a serial number for. It was discussed somewhere around here a few years ago. Also, Google uses text recognition on photos, so a photo of the gun can be found through a search for the serial number even if there is no text associated with it. In the general case, it's better to not have it be publicly displayed. In the special case that the serial number is special and part of the selling value, it would make sense to show it.

[M2CattleCo]

Cardboard background + overcast day + iPhone = profit

[theJanitor]

lots of great suggestions, but I'll add that a $10 super-thin yoga mat (black or dark grey) will make exposure settings easier to nail down, even if it's done automatically in the camera/phone. Black gun on white backgrounds usually need post-processing, and I'm assuming you're not ready for that. It also blends out the shadows.

You can get away with draping the mat from the wall to the floor, automatically creating a "stand" to prop the gun on, a bed sheet for a diffuser and some extra hands to shine lamps and such for illumination, and to negate shadows. Don't use the flash setting in the cam/phone. bring enough light to the party so shoot without it

p.s. if the pieces arent rifle size. there are some portable lightboxes that work wonders