Widespread Riots in South Africa

[TGS]

Hopefully BigT and all of our other Sarf Effrican members are safe and sound.

Here's an interesting video clip...I didn't know that SA had a sizeable Muslim population. Social media reports are presenting the situation as a Muslim neighborhood forming a posse to assist the police. In this clip, some dude appears to be giving a "They can take our lives but never our FREEDOM!" William Wallace-level rallying speech to able bodied men defending their property and families, some armed with firearms.

In the distance you can see the violent mob coming towards them.

Fucking inspiring.

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(any Brits reading this and getting pissed off over the William Wallace reference can fuck off. Nobody cares, get over it)

[Seven_Sicks_Two]

Here's another clip of armed citizens opening fire on rioters

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[RevolverRob]

Meanwhile, in Cuba, the cops are beating the shit out of protesters.

Do we really need to question the 2nd Amendment's purpose again?

[nalesq]

Here's another clip of armed citizens opening fire on rioters

1414560446699524106

Opening fire with what? Less lethal? It looks like some are carrying and pointing rifles, but I don’t see any rioters going down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[entropy]

Rorke’s Drift comes to mind.

I got a buddy who traveled there about 18mo ago for a wedding. His stories were pretty frightening.

[TGS]

Opening fire with what? Less lethal? It looks like some are carrying and pointing rifles, but I don’t see any rioters going down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

They appeared very clearly to me to be pump shotguns, being fired at a distance of 100+ yards.

Shotguns with minimal recoil at that, so likely less lethal or birdshot.

[fixer]

Coming to a neighborhood near you.

[paherne]

(any Brits reading this and getting pissed off over the William Wallace reference can fuck off. Nobody cares, get over it)

They're still in mourning over the loss to Italy. My new favorite Gaelic word is schadenfreude.

[Balisong]

Here's another clip of armed citizens opening fire on rioters

1414560446699524106

Amazing how quickly almost all the rioters realized they had somewhere important to be!

[Lex Luthier]

They appeared very clearly to me to be pump shotguns, being fired at a distance of 100+ yards.

Shotguns with minimal recoil at that, so likely less lethal or birdshot.

I saw one AK variant and one AR variant. I was concerned that they were going to be flanked by the clump of rioters massing to their right along that chain-link fence.

[revchuck38]

Opening fire with what? Less lethal? It looks like some are carrying and pointing rifles, but I don’t see any rioters going down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

That might've been the idea. "Look, guys, we've got guns, and they work, and if you come into our neighborhood there'll be consequences."

[Hot Sauce]

They appeared very clearly to me to be pump shotguns, being fired at a distance of 100+ yards.

Shotguns with minimal recoil at that, so likely less lethal or birdshot.
And yet, out of that mob of hundreds only ~6 formed a skirmish line with road signs for shields. Go figure.

All they needed was a little confrontation with reality to realize they don't want none of that action.

[TGS]

And yet, out of that mob of hundreds only ~6 formed a skirmish line with road signs for shields. Go figure.

All they needed was a little confrontation with reality to realize they don't want none of that action.

It's almost like if you use appropriate force and don't give people "space to destroy", it works.

Whoda' thunk. Sure wish street cops experienced in riot control would pipe up with this info, could've saved us a lot of heartache over the last year and a half.

:)

[Coyotesfan97]

It's almost like if you use appropriate force and don't give people "space to destroy", it works.

Whoda' thunk. Sure wish street cops experienced in riot control would pipe up with this info, could've saved us a lot of heartache over the last year and a half.

:)

Hey let’s not get all crazy here. You mean using force against rioters works?:p

Rioters would not have liked it if I was in charge to put it down.

[Lex Luthier]

Hey let’s not get all crazy here. You mean using force against rioters works?:p

Rioters would not have liked it if I was in charge to put it down.

Bierce's "A steady trade wind of grape shot" has a certain élan, yes?

[Hot Sauce]

"Everybody has a plan until they find themselves looking down the barrel of a shotgun with nothing but roadsigns for shields."
-Iron Mike Tyson

[Caballoflaco]

I saw one AK variant and one AR variant. I was concerned that they were going to be flanked by the clump of rioters massing to their right along that chain-link fence.

I almost yelled at the screen watch your flank when I saw that.


"Everybody has a plan until they find themselves looking down the barrel of a shotgun with nothing but roadsigns for shields."
-Iron Mike Tyson

I was also verbally encouraging somebody to put a rifle round through one of those sign shields, much like my father used to encourage players of the Atlanta Braves while he was watching a game. I guess that only really works when it’s on live tv and not a video on Twitter.

[awp_101]

Whatever happens, we have got
The Gospel of the Gauge, and they have not

[Clusterfrack]

Some of the broader context:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_South_Africa_unrest

[LittleLebowski]

BigT

[willie]

Two years ago I visited with a man from South Africa. He painted a sad picture.

Some may remember that about 25 years ago they outlawed spears because the Zulu's were using them too frequently.

[Baldanders]

"Everybody has a plan until they find themselves looking down the barrel of a shotgun with nothing but roadsigns for shields."
-Iron Mike Tyson

I was taken by surprise lately finding out ol Mike completely got his shit together with the help of magic mushrooms!

https://www.sportbible.com/entertainment/sport-mike-tyson-says-magic-mushrooms-saved-his-life-20210528

Now he's a weed dealer: https://tysonranch.com/

Looks like he might die happy and rich after all.

Can't see him rioting these days.

[Caballoflaco]

Another interesting vid of a choppa being used for crowd control.


https://youtu.be/vkcd0hvm__Q

ETA: just checked out that YouTube channel and dude has a bunch of short videos from the last couple of days.

[Seven_Sicks_Two]

Another interesting vid of a choppa being used for crowd control.

I clicked on this expecting “choppa” to mean “AK-47” and not “helicopter”.

[Caballoflaco]

Also, is anything more TIA than this

https://mobile.twitter.com/SkyEadgbe/status/1414486139835125760


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[psalms144.1]

Really glad we postponed the trip again, we'd be in Jo'berg right about now...

[LittleLebowski]

I was taken by surprise lately finding out ol Mike completely got his shit together with the help of magic mushrooms!

https://www.sportbible.com/entertainment/sport-mike-tyson-says-magic-mushrooms-saved-his-life-20210528

Now he's a weed dealer: https://tysonranch.com/

Looks like he might die happy and rich after all.

Can't see him rioting these days.

Tyson thinks differently. He endorsed Trump in 2016.

[Gadfly]

All this talk reminded me of a clip from a a Russian movie…. Grapeshot against massed troops in Russia. It is a well done scene, and you need not speak Russian to get the gist. Absolutely devastating. The fun really gets going around the 2:15 mark.

A shotgun shell the size of a paint can, with golf ball sized shot, is devastating to you, and 6-8 guys behind you.


https://youtu.be/CfrGCqzHZFE

https://youtu.be/CfrGCqzHZFE

[Hot Sauce]

All this talk reminded me of a clip from a a Russian movie…. Grapeshot against massed troops in Russia. It is a well done scene, and you need not speak Russian to get the gist. Absolutely devastating. The fun really gets going around the 2:15 mark.

A shotgun shell the size of a paint can, with golf ball sized shot, is devastating to you, and 6-8 guys behind you.

No disagreement with the point you're making.

Something else to note about this film as well is the political undertones which it is made to imply: rebelling against the Russian central gov is not worthwhile. Film is, of course, financed by a Kremlin-owned TV channel. Kind of like Jet Li's Hero, but for Russia.

[Lex Luthier]

Following all sorts of twitter feeds, I have found that what the rooftop Koreans were to Los Angeles (and St Paul)
the Indians are to ZA cities. Apparently they get a lot of crap from the black population and the protests are being used as an excuse to loot and damage Indian businesses and homes.

74302

I hate her muzzle discipline but admire her spunk. I can't tell if that shotgun is a Striker, or the later improved Protecta model.

Anyway, there are some videos out there of Indian dudes patrolling neighborhoods from pickups with lots of modern AR rigs.
Sjamboks and lathis get a workout, too. They are rather direct in their disapproval.

[Gadfly]

No disagreement with the point you're making.

Something else to note about this film as well is the political undertones which it is made to imply: rebelling against the Russian central gov is not worthwhile. Film is, of course, financed by a Kremlin-owned TV channel. Kind of like Jet Li's Hero, but for Russia.

I have not seen the whole film, and I know zero about the politics of the filmmakers. And since my Russian is a bit non existent, I can’t even put the scene into context. But I had seen it show and an example of canister shot. So I thought it slightly relevant to the thread.

[rob_s]

Opening fire with what? Less lethal? It looks like some are carrying and pointing rifles, but I don’t see any rioters going down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


They appeared very clearly to me to be pump shotguns, being fired at a distance of 100+ yards.

Shotguns with minimal recoil at that, so likely less lethal or birdshot.


I saw one AK variant and one AR variant. I was concerned that they were going to be flanked by the clump of rioters massing to their right along that chain-link fence.

Yeah I was going to say I saw at least one AR, but also didn’t seem to see any dropped rioters. But then I’m also thinking “if you’re the good guy, do you really *want* to be shooting other humans to begin with?”

Am I totally off base with what I’m taking from all of this to be that Muslims and Indians moved into SA and did what the locals can’t/won’t, which is to create decent lives for themselves by working hard, and now the locals are pissed?

[fixer]

The furious scratching sound you hear is BLM taking notes.

[fixer]

The scale of looting and rioting is really something.

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[Lex Luthier]

Yeah I was going to say I saw at least one AR, but also didn’t seem to see any dropped rioters. But then I’m also thinking “if you’re the good guy, do you really *want* to be shooting other humans to begin with?”

Am I totally off base with what I’m taking from all of this to be that Muslims and Indians moved into SA and did what the locals can’t/won’t, which is to create decent lives for themselves by working hard, and now the locals are pissed?

That would seem to be the gist of it. I've been reading South African Twitter early this AM, and learning tons.
Apparently the local black populations are also targeting black immigrant businesses, especially Nigerians and Somalis.
Some of the Indian folks came to SA from Uganda, and they really don't want a repeat of that.

Two black guys from Kwa Zulu/Natal weighed in:

74308

74309

Interestingly, theres also a lot of the same " but its just a business and they've got insurance, so this isn't an injustice or wrong" twaddle that I've heard so much locally in St Paul. Dumbth is a universal human trait, I fear.

[rob_s]

The scale of looting and rioting is really something.

https://twitter.com/mariamtayob/status/1414734425565302786

It would appear that, much like the “protests” here in the states, this is all more about a free shopping spree than anything else.

I can’t imagine that many people actually give a fuck about the jailed former president…

[SD]

that video reminds me of ants taking food back to the ant mound colony, very efficient. Same idea picking those stores and business clean.
The scale of looting and rioting is really something.

https://twitter.com/mariamtayob/status/1414734425565302786

[BigT]

Most of the shotgun stuff you are seeing is rubber. Rubber thats constantly downloaded lest it causes injury.

I have no doubt that there is a degree of this completely the result of Zuma's arrest and I think thats getting masked by the looting. Lots of looters want free shit, but there are elements here who want a fight, and this is the excuse.

Killing protesters will cause the same if not worse reaction here as there, so its a serious last resort. over and above the normal last resort nature of killing humans.

I have reason to believe the "armed citizens" in the one video are police but can't confirm.

There are racial elements getting wound p as well by those with a bone to pick, if you haven't yet, look into Julius Malema.

I'm not going to lie, its hairy here. Everything is eerie and quiet with the very serious possibility of things getting even worse. A few mates living with earshot of the townships report hearing some serious gunfire through the night.

[Lex Luthier]

Most of the shotgun stuff you are seeing is rubber. Rubber thats constantly downloaded lest it causes injury.

I have no doubt that there is a degree of this completely the result of Zuma's arrest and I think thats getting masked by the looting. Lots of looters want free shit, but there are elements here who want a fight, and this is the excuse.

Killing protesters will cause the same if not worse reaction here as there, so its a serious last resort. over and above the normal last resort nature of killing humans.

I have reason to believe the "armed citizens" in the one video are police but can't confirm.

There are racial elements getting wound p as well by those with a bone to pick, if you haven't yet, look into Julius Malema.

I'm not going to lie, its hairy here. Everything is eerie and quiet with the very serious possibility of things getting even worse. A few mates living with earshot of the townships report hearing some serious gunfire through the night.

Thanks for the clarification, and hope that you and yours remain safe.

I understand that eerie quiet too well. May this be brought to an end before much more of the country is consumed.

[Avtomatt]

I hate her muzzle discipline but admire her spunk. I can't tell if that shotgun is a Striker, or the later improved Protecta model.



For what its worth, here in SA semi auto long guns are pretty difficult to license. The Striker's clockwork mag made it semi auto in the eyes of the police who can teach the ATF a thing or two about contrived definitions.

The Protecta models sold here didn't have the clock work mag. You cycle the action by rotating the vertical foregrip.

The piece in the picture is more likely to be a Protecta.

[Avtomatt]

That would seem to be the gist of it. I've been reading South African Twitter early this AM, and learning tons.
Apparently the local black populations are also targeting black immigrant businesses, especially Nigerians and Somalis.
Some of the Indian folks came to SA from Uganda, and they really don't want a repeat of that.

Two black guys from Kwa Zulu/Natal weighed in:

74308

74309

Interestingly, theres also a lot of the same " but its just a business and they've got insurance, so this isn't an injustice or wrong" twaddle that I've heard so much locally in St Paul. Dumbth is a universal human trait, I fear.

Africa is a crab bucket and socialists hate individual success.

[TheNewbie]

Africa is a crab bucket and socialists hate individual success.



That’s what one of my wife’s friends told me about Mexico. Being deep into the culture for years now, I can’t say I disagree entirely.

Human nature seems to be prevalent the world over.

[TGS]

Most of the shotgun stuff you are seeing is rubber. Rubber thats constantly downloaded lest it causes injury.

I have no doubt that there is a degree of this completely the result of Zuma's arrest and I think thats getting masked by the looting. Lots of looters want free shit, but there are elements here who want a fight, and this is the excuse.

Killing protesters will cause the same if not worse reaction here as there, so its a serious last resort. over and above the normal last resort nature of killing humans.

I have reason to believe the "armed citizens" in the one video are police but can't confirm.

There are racial elements getting wound p as well by those with a bone to pick, if you haven't yet, look into Julius Malema.

I'm not going to lie, its hairy here. Everything is eerie and quiet with the very serious possibility of things getting even worse. A few mates living with earshot of the townships report hearing some serious gunfire through the night.

Are you and your friends/family bunkered down together, town is mostly shut down, etc? Or is this a situation where you're all still going going to work, it hasn't hit your area, or so on?

[Ed L]

I am getting reports of warehouses being looted, as well as ports, This has frightening implications for short term and long term food and medical needs.

[TGS]

Community generated riot map of incidents and no-go zones:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1eDx6D_PEhXr9YIzIjWfw6ZXKFs_wiZ5D&ll=-26.238915326683824%2C28.29669836080842&z=9

[Ed L]

More than 90 pharmacies have been destroyed and looted beyond revival, with KwaZulu-Natal being the hardest hit with 40 pharmacies in that region being destroyed. KwaZulu-Natal includes the major port of Durban

“Among the looted items are Covid-19 vaccines and scheduled medicines, which when used without proper pharmacist counselling on storage and dosage may result in harm to one’s health."


https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/south-africa/2021-07-14-covid-19-vaccines-vital-medicine-lost-as-more-than-90-pharmacies-destroyed/

[blues]

More than 90 pharmacies have been destroyed and looted beyond revival, with KwaZulu-Natal being the hardest hit with 40 pharmacies in that region being destroyed. KwaZulu-Natal includes the major port of Durban

“Among the looted items are Covid-19 vaccines and scheduled medicines, which when used without proper pharmacist counselling on storage and dosage may result in harm to one’s health."


https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/south-africa/2021-07-14-covid-19-vaccines-vital-medicine-lost-as-more-than-90-pharmacies-destroyed/


Actions have consequences. (I guess.)

[FNFAN]

http://youtu.be/raFZNEXb7hM

[Yung]

Baby oil on the floors.
https://twitter.com/ayrtozi/status/1415394598780903424

Bards out.
https://twitter.com/ayrtozi/status/1415412195958087681

[Caballoflaco]

[QUOTE=Yung;1243689]Baby oil on the floors.


1415394855342297088
Looks more like cooking oil, and it’s all good when people are slipping in it, but when they decide to use it as an accelerant you don’t look so smart. Soap would be a far better and less flammable choice.

[Suvorov]

http://youtu.be/raFZNEXb7hM

I hope he is right. I just can’t wonder though if the opposite will prove true - especially by politicians who are eager to appeal to those within the mobs. We have such politicians here in the States and SA has a whole national party of them.

I wish the South Africans good fortune.

[RoyGBiv]

Wow.

1415320154507038724

[Totem Polar]

Wow.

1415320154507038724

Things are looking froggy.

[Yung]

Fenix Ammunition tweeted something.
1415354498705416194
1415355633642115075

[OlongJohnson]

Nevermind.

[SCCY Marshal]

Could y'all do me a solid and archive EVERYTHING?

Browser-based Titter video downloader:
https://twdown.net/

It's a lot of video for me to catch in my free time and I'm working on a folder of these videos to host in anticipation of a mass shove into the memory hole as narratives shift.

[NEPAKevin]

Things are looking froggy.

Is there an Afrikaans version of Molon Labe?

[Ed L]

I am not good at posting things from twitter. One place that seems to be doing a good job of covering it is https://twitter.com/FaeceSocietatis

They have footage of "The authorities tried to stop a white South African community from protecting their neighborhood, they responded by showing up in huge numbers in defiance."

74393

[TGS]

I am not good at posting things from twitter.

Make a post and write

Copy and paste the address from your browser in between the two brackets. You just need the number, so for the twitter post you referenced you just need to copy and paste the number at the end starting in 141 (in this case).

Pistol-forum will do the rest and autogenerate it as follows:

1415710533307731975

[entropy]

Worth a read.

https://unherd.com/2021/07/south-africa-is-on-the-brink/

[Hot Sauce]

Wow.

1415320154507038724If the police and troops are making what look like pretty minimal efforts to take on the unarmed mob, I wonder how willing they will be to start gun battles with citizen self-defense groups.

[FNFAN]

If the police and troops are making what look like pretty minimal efforts to take on the unarmed mob, I wonder how willing they will be to start gun battles with citizen self-defense groups.

Maybe Mixolsi has been studying the Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake riot control method?

[Mark D]

Spent some time on twitter and youtube. There's a ton of indignation about "militias" and "vigilantes" defending neighborhoods.

Not so much indignation about, you know, massive looting, arson, and the complete failure of the government to handle the crisis. Interesting.

[RoyGBiv]

If the police and troops are making what look like pretty minimal efforts to take on the unarmed mob, I wonder how willing they will be to start gun battles with citizen self-defense groups.

What if, when the troops hit the streets, they first move to disarm the citizen defenders instead of moving to quell the mobs?

[Dog Guy]

Entropy, thanks for the link. It provides valuable context.

[SCCY Marshal]

All this talk reminded me of a clip from a a Russian movie….


https://youtu.be/CfrGCqzHZFE

You made me do a thing, having reminded me of Horse Guard Attack from the soundtrack:

https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmeqPNPQN8jjod25yFvho1SieME9UVNKzMaScK1AYjJAua?fil ename=TikTok_the_Face_of_God.mp3


More specific to the clip, the heir apparent to the Russian throne declined appointment and gave the nod to another. This caused a rift in the army and about 3,000 troops who had already sworn fealty to the non-Tsar assembled before the senate plus some grenadiers who made a failed attempt to seize a building. After a day of negotiations and one failed cavalry charge - icy cobbles - your clip picks up pretty accurately.

[TGS]

The current state of things, hopefully our P-F.com members are staying safe and this doesn't completely spiral further down the drain.

Extremely graphic, NSFW, not safe for children.

1416020172482166797

[RoyGBiv]

The current state of things, hopefully our P-F.com members are staying safe and this doesn't completely spiral further down the drain.

Extremely graphic, NSFW, not safe for children.

1416020172482166797

I'm not sure what I'm seeing there.... Black on Black brutality... Is that a looter being carved up or a defender? The comments don't clarify it for me.

Awful. Chaos.

[Caballoflaco]

I'm not sure what I'm seeing there.... Black on Black brutality... Is that a looter being carved up or a defender? The comments don't clarify it for me.

Awful. Chaos.

It was supposedly Indians in the Phoenix community who killed the guy best I can tell from other threads.

[Lex Luthier]

It was supposedly Indians in the Phoenix community who killed the guy best I can tell from other threads.

I couldn't tell if the brute with the pistol and fire axe was indian or black. Either way, this situation is absolutely bringing out the beasts in people.
I think no matter what happens next, the ethnic Indian community is going to take it in the neck; they are doing very poorly in the public relations part of the conflict.

Lord preserve us from such times. History proves that the mix of folks who live here would be far more coldly efficient about it if deemed necessary.

Gay Gezunt, Saffers!

There is all sorts of misdirection and propaganda going on, too. I found a twitter post from a Zulu fellow who was claiming that white folks were looting without consequences, and for an example, he posted a picture from...Minneapolis, taken last June. I called him on it.

[blues]

I couldn't tell if the brute with the pistol and fire axe was indian or black. Either way, this situation is absolutely bringing out the beasts in people.
I think no matter what happens next, the ethnic Indian community is going to take it in the neck; they are doing very poorly in the public relations part of the conflict.

Lord preserve us from such times. History proves that the mix of folks who live here would be far more coldly efficient about it if deemed necessary.

Gay Gezunt, Saffers!

There is all sorts of misdirection and propaganda going on, too. I found a twitter post from a Zulu fellow who was claiming that white folks were looting without consequences, and for an example, he posted a picture from...Minneapolis, taken last June. I called him on it.

He probably confused it with Somalia.

[Seven_Sicks_Two]

The current state of things, hopefully our P-F.com members are staying safe and this doesn't completely spiral further down the drain.

Extremely graphic, NSFW, not safe for children.

Holy shit.

[Totem Polar]

Holy shit.

Concur.


Evidently, a re-write of the 3 S rule is indicated:

“Go to barbaric places, with barbaric people: win barbaric prizes.”

F’d up

[OlongJohnson]

Well, since people are now being carved up with axes, it seems reasonable to ask the question.

How long until this goes full Rwanda?

If I was a white person there, I'd be thinking hard about European Jews in 1937.

[Caballoflaco]

Well, since people are now being carved up with axes, it seems reasonable to ask the question.

How long until this goes full Rwanda?

If I was a white person there, I'd be thinking hard about European Jews in 1937.

Totally wrong continent and ability to industrialize their genocide. As you said, think more Rwanda in 1994 where between 500,000-800,000 Tutsi were killed in 100ish days with machetes, sticks and guns.

Also understand that not all blacks are supporters of the former and now arrested president they’re protesting. With fairly limited media coverage it seems to be mainly fellow Zulu’s who are doing the actual pillaging. In addition, on the twitter-verse at least, it’s the Indians and Indian neighborhoods who seem to be drawing the most anger at the moment.

Just to add I’m piecing this together based on the best media reports I can find, so I’d be happy to be corrected by folks who know more.

[Hot Sauce]

Well, since people are now being carved up with axes, it seems reasonable to ask the question.

How long until this goes full Rwanda?

If I was a white person there, I'd be thinking hard about European Jews in 1937.
I think that's a bit premature. While killing is killing, genocides are planned and coordinated affairs, no such thing as an accidental or happenstance genocide.

[OlongJohnson]

Totally wrong continent and ability to industrialize their genocide.

My point was more that the time to get out is before the killing starts. In Europe in the 1930s, there were people who saw the writing on the wall and got out, and people who thought it could never happen and stayed.

[blues]

My point was more that the time to get out is before the killing starts. In Europe in the 1930s, there were people who saw the writing on the wall and got out, and people who thought it could never happen and stayed.

Sort of how I feel about the 1st Amendment today.

(Granted, a different kind of savaging...but frightening nonetheless.)

(Back in the U.S.S.R.)

[HCM]

I think that's a bit premature. While killing is killing, genocides are planned and coordinated affairs, no such thing as an accidental or happenstance genocide.

There is such a thing evolving genocide.

And the instant attacks in South Africa’s infrastructure were clearly coordinated in some fashion.

[luckyman]

My point was more that the time to get out is before the killing starts. In Europe in the 1930s, there were people who saw the writing on the wall and got out, and people who thought it could never happen and stayed.

I hear you and agree with you….
I mean, my wife and I literally had the conversation where we decided to go to South Africa in 2017 because we judged that by 2022 it wouldn’t be an option we would want to do anymore…edited to add: and we weren’t all that bright; the handwriting seemed to be on the wall.

But man, that is tough when it is your country, if you don’t have ties to anywhere else. Especially when the neighboring countries aren’t great options either.

If it was my country I could picture deciding to stay and try to be part of the solution or at least go down fighting.

[entropy]

They were hanging tires around heads and lighting them off decades ago...

Axes? Meh.

I recall that was one of Winnie’s favorites, no?

[Mark D]

Well, since people are now being carved up with axes, it seems reasonable to ask the question.

How long until this goes full Rwanda?

If I was a white person there, I'd be thinking hard about European Jews in 1937.

Whites have been sliding down the socio-economic ladder in SA for some time, and many with the means already immigrated to the US, UK, NZ, etc. However, a quick tour of twitter shows that Indians are getting the brunt of the hate during the current unrest.

Asians in general, and Indians in particular, have long been scapegoated in Africa. Idi Amin successfully whipped-up that hatred in 1972 and expelled tens of thousand of them (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Asians_from_Uganda), seizing their businesses and property along the way.

During the current unrest, the twitter-verse largely seems to resent the fact that Indians defended their communities, and there are numerous claims that Indians are conducting widespread violence against peaceful and innocent blacks. It's hard to tell what's going on from here in the US, but I have a hard time believing that.

[FNFAN]

They were hanging tires around heads and lighting them off decades ago...

Axes? Meh.

I recall that was one of Winnie’s favorites, no?

Most commonly quoted as, "″With our boxes of matches and our necklaces we shall liberate this country."

[Lex Luthier]

There is such a thing evolving genocide.




Nods in Bosniak.

[Lex Luthier]

Another interesting take from a British Expat who lives there. I'd love to hear what our SA resident members think of this fellow's points. How accurate do you reckon it all is?

https://quillette.com/2021/07/16/why-violence-and-looting-has-exploded-across-south-africa/

[SCCY Marshal]

The current state of things, hopefully our P-F.com members are staying safe and this doesn't completely spiral further down the drain.

Extremely graphic, NSFW, not safe for children.

1416020172482166797

While archiving that and unfortunately stone-cold sober, saw this heartwarming example of quality parenting below:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1415897166367936512

Latinos should probably stop whining about la chancla when other matriarchs break out a sjambok.

[entropy]

Another interesting take from a British Expat who lives there. I'd love to hear what our SA resident members think of this fellow's points. How accurate do you reckon it all is?

https://quillette.com/2021/07/16/why-violence-and-looting-has-exploded-across-south-africa/


If you step back and use soft focus, this should all vaguely look familiar.

[RoyGBiv]

I But man, that is tough when it is your country, if you don’t have ties to anywhere else. Especially when the neighboring countries aren’t great options either.

If it was my country I could picture deciding to stay and try to be part of the solution or at least go down fighting.

My thoughts, pretty much.

[Caballoflaco]

Thanks to that article that Lex Luthier posted I learned about the Durban Riots of 1949 which was a Zulu vs Indian affair that left 142 dead many raped and over 1,000 injured.

It’s worth a google search for those trying to learn a bit about the situation there.

[Shotgun]

Worth a read.

https://unherd.com/2021/07/south-africa-is-on-the-brink/

Good article.

I recall a thread here a few years ago about the confiscation of white owned farms in South Africa. Now, there is this locust horde of looters consuming everything in its path (stealing) from other productive elements of SA society. From a Second Amendment oriented perspective here on PF, we are at least seeing the importance of firearms ownership for self defense in a real world context. I have friends from SA, who are now Texans, and they feel very fortunate that they were able to get out.

[CCT125US]

Some may say this is a damn fine reason for a belt fed, and friends with belt feds..

[Oldherkpilot]

Some may say this is a damn fine reason for a belt fed, and friends with belt feds..

74503

[BigT]

A few points that hopefully are helpful.

Things have been pretty calm for a few days now. I think a lot of reporting over there was a little late making things look extended. That's not to say its all done,or that nothing is going down in the meantime, that we will only know one day in hindsight.

For most of us life continued as normal. My office is in one of the no go zones on googles maps and I came in everyday to quiet. I could see fires on the a few blocks away but so far so good. I may or may not have had something much bigger than a pistol handy though.

With regards the "why don't you leave" and " why don't you come here" comments. Its not as simple as all that. First of all with regards come here, your government makes that pretty difficult, its not like moving from Wisconsin to Illinois. Also for many of us our roots are here, our structures are here and our identities are here. Yup I'm a white dude, but I'm a South African who happens to be a white dude. Not someone who moved here or views here as a convenient place to be, its my home like the US is home for most of you.

Should the proposed Firearm control act amendments go through well then we may have to go wherever will take us because then this place is done, but until then its a good place to live except for people occasionally trying to kill you :)

[blues]

BigT , you and my other friends in S.A. are in my thoughts. I hope things turn around...but I'm skeptical at best.

[Guerrero]

...its not like moving from Wisconsin to Illinois...

Just a point of contention: you'd want to move the opposite way.

Stay safe BigT

[Lex Luthier]

Just a point of contention: you'd want to move the opposite way.

Stay safe BigT

Just so.

May there be a period of peace and a gradual turn toward sanity there, BigT .

[Avtomatt]

its a good place to live except for people occasionally trying to kill you :)

Can confirm.

And, for now, you can still shoot em for trying.

[TGS]

glad you guys are doing okay. Wish the best for you and your friends/family.

[revchuck38]

glad you guys are doing okay. Wish the best for you and your friends/family.

+1!

[NEPAKevin]

Some may say this is a damn fine reason for a belt fed, and friends with belt feds..

and gun ships and cluster munitions.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noivfL8aDHI

[Clusterfrack]

District 9 Mechsuit


https://youtu.be/kVSswbUP3g0?t=31

[SD]

Could China be an external influence on what is taking place in SA. It seems unusual the amount of infrastructure being targeted and destroyed by the masses out free shopping.

[camel]

Could China be an external influence on what is taking place in SA. It seems unusual the amount of infrastructure being targeted and destroyed by the masses out free shopping.

People are going to go get what they want. China is not a magical answer for evil of things happening.

We have seen those things In america.
What South Africa is I don’t know the politics. But China everybody says China.

[Lex Luthier]

People are going to go get what they want. China is not a magical answer for evil of things happening.


Your point about people getting what they want reminds me of all of the times this last week I've seen Minneapolis looting scenes shown as examples on Twitter by black South Africans- the items taken and methods used makes total sense to them, all the way across the globe.

It sounds to me like the combination of really bad social support for both in-and-outgroup poor folks(Zulu, Xhosa, Bantu, etc), heavy COVID restrictions and business lockdowns, a long-running near total ban on alcohol sales*, Political chicanery and corruption, and existing schisms among social groups could have gotten it most of the way there without there being a conspiracy. Though that doesn't mean there isn't one.







*remember the debates about this in the various US states last year? I think even Minneapolis would have voted for Trump if Gov Walz didn't declare liquor stores as "essential businesses" here.

[camel]

[QUOTE=Lex Luthier;1245441]Your point about people getting what they want reminds me of all of the times this last week I've seen Minneapolis looting scenes shown as examples on Twitter by black South Africans- the items taken and methods used makes total sense to them, all the way across the globe.

It sounds to me like the combination of really bad social support for both in-and-outgroup poor folks(Zulu, Xhosa, Bantu, etc), heavy COVID restrictions and business lockdowns, a long-running near total ban on alcohol sales*, Political chicanery and corruption, and existing schisms among social groups could have gotten it most of the way there without there being a conspiracy. Though that doesn't mean there isn't one.



Lots of factors at play. I’m not a sociologist. And I didn’t sleep at a holiday in.
South Africa has been fractured as a society as long as I can remember. Alcohol or whatever drug has nothing to do with it.
It’s a class age thing as you pointed out.
Lots of bullshit.

[HCM]

Could China be an external influence on what is taking place in SA. It seems unusual the amount of infrastructure being targeted and destroyed by the masses out free shopping.

China has great influence in certain countries in Africa but SA is not among them. Nor would something like this be enough for them to gain a foothold.

[HCM]

Interesting timing….

https://mg.co.za/news/2021-07-23-stolen-ammo-poses-security-threat-amid-failure-to-protect-high-risk-consignments/

Stolen ammo poses security threat amid failure to protect high-risk consignments


The theft of some 1.5-million rounds of ammunition in Durban last week has raised questions about why harbour authorities, the South African Revenue Service and the South African Police Service (SAPS) were unable to protect the high-risk consignment in the current volatile environment in KwaZulu-Natal.

Acting minister in the presidency Khumbudzo Ntshavheni this week confirmed that the shipment at a depot “is part of the basis why we said this is part of a plan to undermine the authority of the state”, in reference to last week’s wave of violence in KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng, which saw shopping malls looted and in come cases burnt.

Ntshavheni told a media briefing on Thursday that some of the bullets had been recovered, but sources told the Mail & Guardian that the bulk of the 14-tonne consignment remains missing.

“SAPS was unable to control the area. Criminals looted the shipment and stole in excess of one-million rounds of ammunition. The vast majority of the ammunition was 9mm rounds destined for sale to private individuals nationally, law enforcement as well as private security companies,” Marco van Niekerk, the chief executive of Outdoor Investment Holdings, whose subsidiary Formalito imported the ammunition, told the M&G.

Nine-millimetre bullets are the most commonly used ammunition and can be used to in most of the same calibre pistols in South Africa. They are also most commonly used in house and armed robberies and car hijackings, according to Willem Els, a senior analyst in organised crime and terrorism at the Institute for Security Studies (ISS).

The Directorate for Priority Crime Investigation (the Hawks) will now have to determine who is to blame for the theft, which happened when hordes of looters flooded the cargo terminals in the port in Mobeni, an industrial area in Durban, breaking open several shipping containers.

Some security sources said it appeared as if the container with ammunition was targeted while others in the same vicinity were left untouched. The container had two seals, which only needed a bolt cutter to open and thus offered no real challenge to the thieves.

The question also remains how 14 tonnes of ammunition was carried or transported away from the container without much of a trace or the police intervening, one security specialist said.

Police Minister Bheki Cele said last weekend some boxes of ammunition with about 11 000 bullets had been found in various parts of Mobeni. He said an investigation was underway to determine the destination of the shipment and — if the police had not granted permission for it to leave the harbour — how it was moved within the port’s restricted area and who facilitated it.

Sources acquainted with the circumstances leading up to the theft said a number of suspects within the police and port environment were currently under a cloud of suspicion, including for negligence.


The Hawks have since taken over the investigation from the police’s detective branch. Van Niekerk confirmed he was meeting the investigators from the Hawks on Monday, while the Hawks referred all questions to Cele’s office.

According to Van Niekerk, the ammunition was intended for use by citizens, security companies and armed forces as all of these were regular customers. A full set of documents for the legal shipment was provided to and accepted by the SAPS on 6 July already, meaning the police were well aware of what would be arriving at the Durban port.

“At the time the ammunition was stolen from Mobeni the consignment fell under the authority and control of the clearing agents, customs and port authorities and the SAPS. At no point was it under our control. Our company has been importing and distributing firearms and ammunition for more than 55 years, so we understand the intricacies perfectly well,” said Van Niekerk.

“Previously, shipments of this nature, which arrived in Durban, have been permitted to be released under embargo for inspection in Johannesburg or Pretoria. But after several requests for release police remained insistent that this inspection be done in Durban and directed the shipment for inspection to a local Durban transport yard. The container’s permanent seal can only be broken under supervision from SAPS during this stage of importation and transport.”

He said on the night of Sunday 11 July, the shipment was delivered to the transport yard ahead of the inspection with armed escort. Because of the nature of the cargo, it was not permitted to remain at the port for too long, or unprotected. It was also impossible to deliver the shipment directly to the inspection depot because it was closed because of the violence taking place.

On Monday 12 July, the SAPS were again duly notified that the shipment was awaiting inspection at the transporters’ yard. But before the shipment could be inspected and released from customs, looting criminals overran Mobeni on Wednesday. If you consider the dates, it is evident that there was no sense of urgency by the authorities. One should, however, in fairness, also consider the crises they were facing,” Van Niekerk said, adding: “SAPS was unable to control the area.”

“We hope that the SAPS will urgently investigate the theft, which has serious ramifications, with the intensity and seriousness required.”

From the document listing the ammunition, which the M&G has seen, it was imported from Brazil. Apart from the 9mm calibre the container also carried .38 calibre bullets widely used for Beretta and Colt revolvers, and .44 calibre bullets for the powerful Magnum revolver and guns.

The ISS’s Els said it was important to firstly determine who stole and dispatched the ammunition.

“Usually when arms are confiscated from criminals, they only have a few bullets, indicating that they don’t have much ammunition to spare,” he said. “Flooding the criminal market with a massive consignment such as this can create a very dangerous situation in an already volatile province.”

[ST911]

Interesting timing….

https://mg.co.za/news/2021-07-23-stolen-ammo-poses-security-threat-amid-failure-to-protect-high-risk-consignments/

Stolen ammo poses security threat amid failure to protect high-risk consignments

Inside job.

[Lex Luthier]

Another article by Bryan Pottinger on how it went down in SA.

https://unherd.com/2021/07/the-return-of-south-africas-militias/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=7c604648ea&mc_eid=19a6766566

I would be very interested in hearing what our Saffer members have to say on the accuracy of this piece. (If they can without risking anything, of course.)

[TDA]

Another article by Bryan Pottinger on how it went down in SA.

https://unherd.com/2021/07/the-return-of-south-africas-militias/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=7c604648ea&mc_eid=19a6766566

I would be very interested in hearing what our Saffer members have to say on the accuracy of this piece. (If they can without risking anything, of course.)

"community members hold weapons" is the caption of the marquee photograph, and yet the only "weapon" in the picture looks like a Chinese underlever spring piston air rifle, is it not? Or does the other guy have a golf club?

[Yung]

Any updates?

(Express) South Africa riots: 'Heartbroken' locals scramble to rebuild after homes 'burnt to ground' (https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1479701/south-africa-riots-latest-political-revolt-rebuild)


SOUTH AFRICA has been in a war with itself for years, and it seems to be coming to a peak in what some believe is indicative of a future coup as those dwelling in poverty grow restless.
By Samantha Leathers 15:52, Fri, Aug 20, 2021 | UPDATED: 15:52, Fri, Aug 20, 2021
--
On August 5 Cyril Ramaphosa, president of South Africa, made a statement announcing a cabinet reshuffle.

President Ramaphosa has seen, in the last month, a flurry of detrimental blows to the power of his cabinet, not only has the recent unrest swivelled public values, but three of his most vital Ministers are being replaced.

In addition to this, President Ramphosa appointed 10 Ministers, 10 Deputy Ministers and, in a riskier move, dissolved the Ministry of State Security in his most recent announcement in the hopes of finding a balance between satisfying the public and protecting it from itself.

The president spoke about the riots for one of the first times during this announcement, saying: “Our law enforcement agencies are working hard to bring those responsible to justice, we have acknowledged that our security services were found wanting in several aspects.”

He went on to say that an expert panel will be formed to examine and analyse the shortcomings of law enforcement in these circumstances and how to be better prepared going forward.

This has not been received with overwhelming support, as law enforcement has never been a trusted source of security for South Africans and their recently expanded powers due to the riots and Covid-19 has left many feeling uneasy.
--
Some have seen these riots as fully calculated attacks and not as spontaneous as they seem to be.

A former minister of home affairs has noted that the faction fights within the ANC dates back to 2017, when President Ramaphosa narrowly won his presidency from the hands of Nkosozana Dlamini-Zuma – the ex-wife of former president Zuma.

For this exact reason, many believe there is a coup about to begin, and whilst there isn’t much evidence to back these claims at the moment, some fear that by the time there is it will be too late to save what little democracy remains.


(AP) South Africa Gets More Vaccines From US Amid Ongoing Surge (https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-08-27/south-africa-gets-more-vaccines-from-us-amid-ongoing-surge)


South Africa will this weekend receive 2.2 million Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine doses donated by the United States to add to the 5.6 million doses it received from the U.S. in July.

By MOGOMOTSI MAGOME, Associated Press Aug. 27, 2021
--
The new doses come as the country continues to battle an extended resurgence of COVID-19 infections and is racing to vaccinate 67% of its 60 million people by February next year.

They are expected to be delivered on Saturday, South African Health Minister Joe Phaahla said during a weekly COVID-19 briefing.

South Africa has already purchased 40 million doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine. The country has also bought 31 million doses of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, which are being delivered in large shipments from overseas and from a manufacturing plant in South Africa.


(AP) South Africa must guard whistleblowers says security expert (https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/South-Africa-must-guard-whistleblowers-says-16416632.php)


MOGOMOTSI MAGOME, Associated Press
Aug. 27, 2021|Updated: Aug. 27, 2021 11:25 a.m.

JOHANNESBURG (AP) — The killing of a South African health official providing evidence about an allegedly corrupt contract to purchase COVID-19 personal protective equipment has sparked calls for better protection of whistleblowers in the country.

Babita Deokaran, 53, the Department of Health’s chief director of financial accounting, was shot and killed outside her home in Johannesburg this week. She was a key witness in investigations into suspect contracts worth millions of rands (dollars).

Deokaran was shot multiple times after dropping her child off at school in an apparent hit.

Police announced Friday that seven people have been arrested for Deokoran’s killing and will appear in court on murder charges.
--

[entropy]

I’ve been watching a British documentary series on the Bush Wars.

Heartbreaking.