my annual Linux failure

[JodyH]

Just finished up my annual attempt to switch to Linux failure.
This year it was Ubuntu 20.04 LTS on a Lenovo "all in one".
Did a dual boot install and was up and running with zero issues and liking it for about a week.
Then I restarted the computer to use Windows for some specialized software, no problem.
Restarted again to use Ubuntu and my wired ethernet is no longer working and for some reason there's no wireless option.
Both the wired and wireless work perfectly in Windows.
Literally nothing changed on the machine except a restart.

WTF?
It's 2021 and it's still a royal pain in the ass to get on (and stay on) the Internet with Linux.
I also love the "just Google your issue"... so you're saying I need a second non-Linux machine so I can troubleshoot and fix my Linux machine? Ya... No.
I guess I'll go back to spyware Windows and try again next year.
The one thing about having software that data mines you... the company has a vested interest in making sure the data mining pipeline actually works.
:rolleyes:

[LittleLebowski]

Just load Linux as a VM using VirtualBox on Windows.

[JodyH]

Just load Linux as a VM using VirtualBox on Windows.
No

The VM route (and WINE) have always been almost as bad stability wise, but with moar resources hogged.

It's 2021... it's a standard hardware machine. Shit that worked yesterday should still work today.

:p

[RJ]

Been running Linux Mint for at least three years now.

What is ‘wired’ internet? :cool:


Sorry could not resist. That seems pretty odd. Basic transport layer / eth0 stuff should work pretty well. I’m very surprised to hear. Not up on all the latest releases. How long has that particular Ubuntu rev been out? It’s not a beta or anything? Can you migrate back to a more stable release? Do an upgrade to get latest packages? Just spit ballin’, I are not a real Tux expert.

[LittleLebowski]

No

The VM route (and WINE) have always been almost as bad stability wise, but with moar resources hogged.

It's 2021... it's a standard hardware machine. Shit that worked yesterday should still work today.

:p

OK. That's not my experience, but I can't do it for you. WINE has always been shit, but VMs are stable tech.

[SecondsCount]

The issue with Linux has always been with proprietary drivers. On my Mint Linux machine, which is a Dell and used some kind of Broadcom wifi driver, I had to tell it to go ahead and download the drivers even though they weren't open source.

All is fine now.

My experience last year with a couple of Lenovo machines running Windows 10 was interesting. The first one that my company issued me worked great for 3 months and then the wifi started slowing down so they sent another. This one has been fine so far.

[RJ]

Did a wee bit of digging, clipped some info from wiki is below. FWIW the version of Mint (Tara) I have is based on Ubuntu 18.04 LTS; this the version of Mint I loaded on my cast-off Dell work surplus e6530 box. I've since also put Mint on an even older, hand-crank steam driven Acer Inspire. It runs kinda, ah, slow, but it does run.

"On January 3, 2018, the Linux Mint Team released news of Linux Mint 19 'Tara'. The team stated that the 19.x releases would use GTK 3.22 and be based on Ubuntu 18.04 LTS, with support provided until 2023. On June 29, 2018, Linux Mint 19 'Tara' Cinnamon was released.[37] Then, on December 24, 2019, Linux Mint 19.3, 'Tricia' was released, with security updates available until 2023

[LittleLebowski]

The issue with Linux has always been with proprietary drivers. On my Mint Linux machine, which is a Dell and used some kind of Broadcom wifi driver, I had to tell it to go ahead and download the drivers even though they weren't open source.

All is fine now.

My experience last year with a couple of Lenovo machines running Windows 10 was interesting. The first one that my company issued me worked great for 3 months and then the wifi started slowing down so they sent another. This one has been fine so far.

If you're having an issue with drivers, that can often be solved with a third party card/adapter that is supported.

[Whirlwind06]

Linux and Windows are like 1911s and Glock in my mind.
If you want it to just work and not have to mess with stuff use Windows/Glock if you are okay tinkering with things Linux/1911.

[Eugene]

Linux and Windows are like 1911s and Glock in my mind.
If you want it to just work and not have to mess with stuff use Windows/Glock if you are okay tinkering with things Linux/1911.

Always been the opposite for me. Wife and kids laptops and my work provided windows system are always breaking and needing messed with. My Linux systems always work fine.

[LittleLebowski]

Linux and Windows are like 1911s and Glock in my mind.
If you want it to just work and not have to mess with stuff use Windows/Glock if you are okay tinkering with things Linux/1911.

Linux has changed so much that there's no way to generalize about it.

[SecondsCount]

Linux and Windows are like 1911s and Glock in my mind.
If you want it to just work and not have to mess with stuff use Windows/Glock if you are okay tinkering with things Linux/1911.

I find most Linux installs to be way quicker and easier than Windows, and I have had plenty of driver issues with the latter.

The nice part about Windows is you can buy a packaged system that works out of the box. Just like a Glock or a 1911, add some external accessories or install more software, and you may mess up a perfectly working PC. That's been the beauty of the tablet and smartphone products, it's a lot harder to mess them up compared to a PC.

[Chance]

I am presently learning to live in Linux and it does seem that networking is a little fragile periodically. On an Ubuntu-based distribution, running 'sudo systemctl restart NetworkManager.service' seems to correct whatever the issue is the majority of the time, but I'm still learning the idiosyncrasies and I'm sure there are better solutions available than "turning it off and turning it back on again". I'd be curious to hear the thoughts of the various Linux gurus that are wandering around the board.


Linux and Windows are like 1911s and Glock in my mind.
If you want it to just work and not have to mess with stuff use Windows/Glock if you are okay tinkering with things Linux/1911.

I think this is an apt analogy. These days it seems like your options for a desktop / laptop are limited to:

A) Paying the Apple tax and asking Cook & Co. for permission to use hardware you technically own;
B) Submitting to constant telemetry and letting Microsoft handle most problems most of the time (...mostly); or,
C) Accepting that Linux has fleas and that you'll have to scratch your own itches.

Linux is definitely the future though, and I think LL's suggestion of using an emulator on Windows is probably the best solution for most people.

[Sig_Fiend]

Well not sure if this was LittleLebowski 's intent but, I was going to say using a virtual machine is a great way to try it out first, get used to commands, the menu system, etc. and get a feel for the OS without worrying about breaking something. Then once you feel more comfortable, you could do an actual install. Long-term, I wouldn't just use it in a VM as that sort of defeats the purpose unless you're using something like a "hypervisor" but, that's a whole other ball of wax.

Even better, though a bit of added cost. Go buy a used Dell Precision desktop off Craigslist, Ebay, or Newegg. $100-150 can get you a decent one from 5-7yrs ago that's more than sufficient. Very common, and usually the hardware of the Precision models is well-supported since they're more business-grade. Have that second computer on the side so you can start with an actual install while still having your other functioning computer. Worst case if you screw it up, just reinstall your choice of Linux distribution.

I think a lot of what intimidates people about Linux up front has to do with concerns about the unknown. Stuff like managing hard drives, adding new hard drives, opening and closing programs, dealing with errors or unexpected situations. Basically, fear of breaking things. I say, break them at will in a VM, gain a bit of confidence, then move to a proper hardware install. :-)

[LittleLebowski]

I honestly don't think Linux nor Windows are the future for personal use. It's all going to be Android or IOS, maybe some form of Windows embedded. Yes, I'm aware that Android is Linux based.

[RevolverRob]

Lab is Linux-based. But my personal machines remain Mac. For trouble free and ease of integration, Mac is tough to beat. Really OSx is just "high functioning" or "low functioning" Linux depending on your level of use. It's a UNIX-based system with architecture and code that is just a little fancier than Linux.

The place where I find Linux excels is when building enterprise grade systems on the cheap. Which is basically our lab. We're currently running four racks with enough processing and video cards to make a crypto miner jealous. But we use it for data processing and digital imaging. Still, there is nothing in the suite of image processing tools that works as well as stuff available for Mac.

[Whirlwind06]

I honestly don't think Linux nor Windows are the future for personal use. It's all going to be Android or IOS, maybe some form of Windows embedded. Yes, I'm aware that Android is Linux based.


Yep, I agree.
When most people use an internet browser for most of the day-to-day things they do.
What's it's running on doesn't make much of a difference. The current trend seems to be software as a service with very thin desktop clients or web apps.

[mtnbkr]

VMs are stable tech.
Back when I managed a DevOps team (side gig to my job as a SOC manager), everyone ran Linux VMs under VirtualBox.

I haven't run Linux as a primary machine in ages, but the Linux VMs I run on my VMWare server at home all "just work".

Chris

[Tabasco]

Just finished up my annual attempt to switch to Linux failure.
This year it was Ubuntu 20.04 LTS on a Lenovo "all in one".
Did a dual boot install and was up and running with zero issues and liking it for about a week.
Then I restarted the computer to use Windows for some specialized software, no problem.
Restarted again to use Ubuntu and my wired ethernet is no longer working and for some reason there's no wireless option.
Both the wired and wireless work perfectly in Windows.
Literally nothing changed on the machine except a restart.

WTF?
It's 2021 and it's still a royal pain in the ass to get on (and stay on) the Internet with Linux.
I also love the "just Google your issue"... so you're saying I need a second non-Linux machine so I can troubleshoot and fix my Linux machine? Ya... No.
I guess I'll go back to spyware Windows and try again next year.
The one thing about having software that data mines you... the company has a vested interest in making sure the data mining pipeline actually works.
:rolleyes:

Maybe the CCP does not approve of Ubuntu running on their hardware...

[JodyH]

I'm quite familiar and comfortable with both Mint and Ubuntu. I've used both off and on every year going back many, many years.
I usually use them until they bug out for the goofiest reason, usually network/Internet related.
I'm also familiar with OSX and had Macs for a few years, no proof but I'm pretty sure Apple and Microsoft are both data mining everything they can get away with on the down low.
Not interested in using a VM. The more layers of software, the more potential exploits, bugs and resources hogged.

Today I ordered a System76 (https://system76.com/) Meercat to use as a dedicated, supported Ubuntu machine.
Hopefully I'll have better long term stability with a machine built from the ground up to be Linux compatible.

I'm trying to get away from Microsoft before the next big Windows update turns my machine into a full blown snitch.

[jh9]

Maybe the CCP does not approve of Ubuntu running on their hardware...

They really don't (https://old.reddit.com/r/SuggestALaptop/comments/3gxoh9/psa_lenovo_rootkits_and_superfish/). I suppose having to support windows AND linux rootkits would be too much work. A U430 was my last lenovo after that debacle. It's been mac and system76 since then.

System76 is notable not just for popos but for coreboot. Seems like a pretty worthwhile step at getting away from Mystery Vendor Software that runs before whatever OS you've configured.

[Chance]

I have become a System76 fanboy. I use an Oryx Pro as my portable desktop and a Lemur Pro as my walking-around laptop, and I've been thrilled with both of them. Their tech support is awesome, too.

[JodyH]

I have become a System76 fanboy. I use an Oryx Pro as my portable desktop and a Lemur Pro as my walking-around laptop, and I've been thrilled with both of them. Their tech support is awesome, too.

I decided to jump in the shallow end with a Meercat (albeit a loaded one) to test the System76 waters, I might grab a laptop once the 17" are actually available in the right configuration.
I use my laptop as a remote desktop so portability is pretty low on my list of needs (my current "laptop" is a beast 17" Alienware).

[Jaywalker]

Funny. I kept Ubuntu 18.04LTS loaded because it continued to work, so why mess with/change it. Recently, my WiFi stopped loading, too. Didn't notice it because I'm normally connected Ethernet. Don't have the WiFi fix yet, but I'm still looking.

[JodyH]

Installed Oracle Virtual Box.
It promptly hosed my Internet connections. LOL
Found it had installed itself into my network adapters/drivers and wouldn't let any others load.
Had to do a full uninstall to get it all working again.

Not a big fan of using a VM in Windows anyway.
My way of thinking is you're getting the worst of everything when it comes to security when you use Windows as the underlying architecture.
If I'm going to play with VM's I'd rather start with Linux and layer on top of that.

My System76 machine should ship in a few days, I guess I can wait.
:p

[SecondsCount]

Funny. I kept Ubuntu 18.04LTS loaded because it continued to work, so why mess with/change it. Recently, my WiFi stopped loading, too. Didn't notice it because I'm normally connected Ethernet. Don't have the WiFi fix yet, but I'm still looking.

Check and see if you have a Broadcom card. Their drivers are proprietary but I think Mint has a workaround that I used. Ubuntu should as well.

[BWT]

I work in networking technology and networking systems. Routers, switches, wireless, datacenter switches, identity services engine, and firewalls. All Linux based.

I think what makes Mac work great is they control everything about their OS and hardware. They still have issues, but they have what 5 models? Mac also pushes to minimize end user control of their system.

Linux tries to do this with various systems such as Ubuntu, but an open source software named after an African community that was part of a Philanthropist’s goal of a minimal operating system. Isn’t going to be able to compete on ease of use or resources with the largest software company in existence that was helmed by the wealthiest man in the world for how many decades?

I think go with a VM. Drivers are going to be a pain, but most vendors are aiming at building a device that’s going to support windows. Did the device you bought come optimized, etc. for Linux?

If it’s critical infrastructure - it’s Linux based. System engineers I work with have said that. I see that in my profession, every networking component is a distribution and/or flavor of Linux.

The break through with power shell is all just modeling after the capability of bash. And it’s revolutionary for Windows. UAC and escalation of privileges? Guess who’s been escalating privileges and SU’ing to root for decades to perform critical tasks only?

I use a Windows PC for work because I’ve worked with them for 20-ish years and it’s what the corporations, colleges, and smaller governments orgs, I work with use. But I’ve come close to a Linux distribution a few times. I just figure I have a job to do and getting creative with my own equipment while pushing to do my job is not the time. I’m there to execute and do it to the best of my ability.

I’m sticking with PC’s for now.

[LittleLebowski]

They really don't (https://old.reddit.com/r/SuggestALaptop/comments/3gxoh9/psa_lenovo_rootkits_and_superfish/). I suppose having to support windows AND linux rootkits would be too much work. A U430 was my last lenovo after that debacle. It's been mac and system76 since then.

System76 is notable not just for popos but for coreboot. Seems like a pretty worthwhile step at getting away from Mystery Vendor Software that runs before whatever OS you've configured.

China being China.

[SecondsCount]

.....
I’m sticking with PC’s for now.

I use a company issued PC for work and a Mint Linux machine at home. I can't say that I prefer one over the other but the Windows machine has some weird quirks that I can't tell if they are due to Windows or the hardware.

For home use I like Mint because I can get the hardware for super cheap, the latest laptop being a freebie, and it runs well on the old hardware. The savings gets spent on my gun addiction :cool:

[Chance]

I work in networking technology and networking systems. Routers, switches, wireless, datacenter switches, identity services engine, and firewalls. All Linux based.

Pick any random embedded system and there's a very high likelihood that the Linux kernel is on there somewhere. That code is used in everything from supercomputers to smart urinals. The helicopter on Mars (https://www.pcmag.com/news/linux-is-now-on-mars-thanks-to-nasas-perseverance-rover) is running Linux.

I have started pushing Linux very hard to all of my intro computer science students. Unfortunately, the university's IT infrastructure is completely dependent on Microsoft, and we are reminded of that every third week when no one can get access to their e-mail.

[Eugene]

I’m sticking with PC’s for now.

I stick with PC's running Linux ;)

[That Guy]

Recently, my WiFi stopped loading, too. Didn't notice it because I'm normally connected Ethernet. Don't have the WiFi fix yet, but I'm still looking.

It has literally been many years since I had any trouble with network interfaces in Linux, but the first thing you might try is simply:

sudo ifdown wlan0
sudo ifup wlan0

(Obviously replace interface name if necessary.)

Funny story (?) about Linux: back when I was a student I had this desktop computer cobbled together from various parts. I had been using one flavor or another of Windows until then, and struggling with the limitations of the operating system. I believe I was running NT4 at the time the computer went kablooey to the point a full OS reinstall was necessary. (I think one of the three or four hard drives I had in that box failed, and of course the failed one was the boot drive. I could misremember though - I reiterate, I was running NT4 at the time. It's been a while.) The kablooey naturally took place during a weekend and it was at that point I realized the only install media I had access to at that time was a Linux distro of some sort (Ubuntu, I think?). I figured I'd at least be able to get basic functionality back until I could get access to a Windows install media the next Monday, so what the hell - let's play with Linux for the weekend.

And that, ladies gentlemen and none of the above, is how I became a Linux user - by the time Monday rolled around I was in no hurry to switch back to Windows, and in fact my personal computers have been Windows free ever since. :)

[Tabasco]

My first Linux experience was Slakware. My Dad gave me a Linux book with a CD. At work I had an old PC collecting dust, so I said WTF. It installed with no issues, so I made it our SMTP gateway server when we connected to the Internet back in 1993. Used Red Hat for awhile, then Ubuntu on the recommendation of a friend who worked for Nokia (pre Windows CE). At my last IT job (2011), I installed Ubuntu Server on a couple of dust collectors, and used them for Nagios and OSSEC. Nagois keeps tabs on your running services of your servers, and alerts you when they are down. Really helpful. OSSEC does security audits of your servers, somewhat useful, better than nothing. Never used the wireless stuff, always hardwired (RJ45) Ethernet.

[Eugene]

I installed Slackware somewwhere in the 90's, then in 2002 when I finally got a away from windows I went back to Slackware, bee on it ever since.

[JodyH]

Maybe I can make this Linux thing work this time.

Got my System 76 Meercat up and running on Pop!_OS 21.04.
So far so good and everything seems to be humming along nicely.

[mtnbkr]

This thread prompted me to give Linux on the desktop another spin. My current installation of Win10 is about 2 years old and my hardware is about 8 (minor upgrades of SSD and a newish video card aside). It's been roughly 20 years since I last used Linux as a desktop OS and I'm pleasantly surprised at how much things have improved. I pulled the old Win10 256gb SSD out and replaced it with a new 2TB model and went to work installing the most recent Ubuntu LTS distro.

Stuff that would have been very tedious to get working back then "just work" now. I did have to dump Firefox for Chromium because the former doesn't work with Netflix/Hulu/Amazon despite having the latest version and DRM enabled (I had dumped FF on my Win machines for the same reason). Chromium worked without any fiddling. The Gnome interface is "weird" (mainly the Dock), but I'll get used to it. I have a couple apps for which Linux versions don't exist (VMWare, iTunes). Wine doesn't work for VMWare, at least not without a bunch of troubleshooting. It should work with Itunes, but I may just put that on my wife's laptop since her phone is the only iPhone in the house. So far, everything else is working, including our Xerox laser printer and HP Deskjet Inkjet+Scanner device. I'll need to rewrite my backup script and get a fileshare working so my wife can back up stuff from her laptop to this machine (which then gets backed up to the basement server). Doable, just not an immediate priority...

Team Fortress 2 is definitely improved. Places where it stuttered or hung (mainly during loading of the game) don't do that anymore. :)

The 2tb SSD will let me get rid of one of the two spindle-based drives, reducing noise, heat, and power consumption.

Overall it "feels" faster, but that could be as much a result of a fresh install as anything. Win10 always feels fast the first few months after a fresh install. I'm not immediately reaching for the Win10 install CD, so that's a plus. :)

Chris

[Borderland]

I've been thinking about installing Linux on one of my laptops but they're both pretty old Toshibas and I would just as soon not as I'm not terribly computer savvy. The reason is Windows updates keep crashing my laptops and I have to reinstall Windows about once every few months.

This System 76 has me interested in buying a new non-windows laptop.

I'm not a gamer so don't need the best graphics.
Mostly I just shop, get the news/weather and bank online.
Maybe stream a movie occasionally.

I'm looking for an operating system other than Windows. Is System 76 laptop a good bet? I know they're expensive but I've learned to hate Windows. I'm not really a MAC fan either. My phone is Android and I like it just fine.

[mtnbkr]

I've been thinking about installing Linux on one of my laptops but they're both pretty old Toshibas and I would just as soon not as I'm not terribly computer savvy. The reason is Windows updates keep crashing my laptops and I have to reinstall Windows about once every few months.

This System 76 has me interested in buying a new non-windows laptop.

I'm not a gamer so don't need the best graphics.
Mostly I just shop, get the news/weather and bank online.
Maybe stream a movie occasionally.

I'm looking for an operating system other than Windows. Is System 76 laptop a good bet? I know they're expensive but I've learned to hate Windows. I'm not really a MAC fan either. My phone is Android and I like it just fine.

You might try a Chromebook. I have one as a "travel laptop" and it works quite well for the uses you describe. There's a Linux subsystem you can enable that will let you get your feet wet in Linux. Chromebooks also run Android apps. I use both of those features on my Chromebook and they work well.

A workable Chromebook will run $200-$300 and be pretty trouble free. They're not a replacement for a proper desktop or laptop, but good as a 2nd or 3rd machine.

Chris

[boing]

I’m surprised System76 doesn’t offer any laptop with a display over 1080. I’m flush with Thinkpads, but I think about going AMD/AMD from time to time, and the older I get, the more I consider crispy HiDPI displays as a mandatory feature.

[jh9]

I’m surprised System76 doesn’t offer any laptop with a display over 1080. I’m flush with Thinkpads, but I think about going AMD/AMD from time to time, and the older I get, the more I consider crispy HiDPI displays as a mandatory feature.

It's probably a temporary thing. Supply chain if I had to guess. The adder I got from them last year has a 4k/60hz display.

[JodyH]

You might try a Chromebook. I have one as a "travel laptop" and it works quite well for the uses you describe. There's a Linux subsystem you can enable that will let you get your feet wet in Linux. Chromebooks also run Android apps. I use both of those features on my Chromebook and they work well.

A workable Chromebook will run $200-$300 and be pretty trouble free. They're not a replacement for a proper desktop or laptop, but good as a 2nd or 3rd machine.

Chris
I'm personally trying to get away from all things Google, Microsoft, Apple and other big brother data mining tech companies.
It's not paranoia... they really are out to get me (and you).
:p

[Shoresy]

I'm personally trying to get away from all things Google, Microsoft, Apple and other big brother data mining tech companies.
It's not paranoia... they really are out to get me (and you).
:p

Agree with all above and it's the reason for which my only use for a Chromebook is to get rid of ChromeOS and install GalliumOS... which works "pretty well" for most things.

Fuck Google.

[mtnbkr]

I'm personally trying to get away from all things Google, Microsoft, Apple and other big brother data mining tech companies.
It's not paranoia... they really are out to get me (and you).
:p

That's cool, no problem with that, but I was speaking directly to Borderland's issues with his current machines. :)

Chris

[SCCY Marshal]

Pulled out an old* Lenovo tower that's been sitting disused and without an operating system. Wife wanted it up and running for the kids so the three aren't all sharing a single desktop PC. The current family computer runs Haiku but I didn't have a bootable iso handy where a somewhat fresh-ish Artix Linux thumbdrive with the OpenRC init system and XFCE desktop environment was sitting on my desk.

I'm going to let the family poke around now that I've set it up with yay for more access to downloadable programs, Brave for a modern browser, nnn file manager for me to zip around the rare days I audit the kids' folders, GNU EMACS** because one does, transmission-cli, youtube-dl command line only, Libre Office, Lynx for Gopher access, Links as a back-up browser with terminal and graphical options (my favorite for Wordpress sites), feh*** for photo viewing, sxiv for .gif viewing and to make the default photo viewer, mupdf as a lightning fast PDF viewer, and called it a break for tea.

Still need to test if it plays DVDs without needing VLC which is a bit heavy for the old hardware and dig out a set of old speakers if I haven't already thrown them out in a bout of spring cleaning. Also want to get a graphical VPN client on principle but wil make the kids do that. Anything above and beyond this base set-up will be on the kids, like loading StarDict and some offline dictionaries for it, RSS viewer, a podcast client, a graphical digital audio workstation, or whatever.

Then I need to see if I can recover display funcionality to a more modern Windows 10-era tower and get Haiku on that to see how it does.


* Windows 7 or 8 came with it.
** Also set it set to default for opening .txt files. This thing has five text editors, now: Vi (boo), Nano, EMACS, Mousepad, and Leafpad.
*** Forgot that it doesn't play animated gifs and had to grab sxiv for that but too lazy to uninstall it.

[SCCY Marshal]

In absolutely predictable news, I needed VLC for DVDs as MPV just played the first episode of a series disk with no menu. RSS and podcasting goals combined into a middleweight client that does both just fine (I have failed at the first tenant of the unix philosophy and will report for my flogging).

[Borderland]

Every time I get a Win 10 update it jacks my Bluetooth settings. Mostly just turns it off. Every GD time. I'm thinking a company as big as MS could figure this out. My computer is only a few moths old with an i5 processor so it isn't like it's ancient hardware. I'm not sure why the update can't read my settings an restore them instead of just axing my Bluetooth.

I think Windows is very much like a 1911 that someone pieced together from a box of parts they found at a gun show.

[SCCY Marshal]

Then I need to see if I can recover display funcionality to a more modern Windows 10-era tower and get Haiku on that to see how it does.

Forgot that Haiku still doesn't play nice with UEFI when it tries to boot up so now I have more work on my hands. Runs fine off a thumb-drive for now, though.

[randyho]

Windows Subsystem for Linux (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/about) is another option, for those who don't like the VM route. Install WSL and then add the distro of your choice via the Windows app store.

Relatively easy to set up through powershell. Currently runnin' Kali on my laptop this way. No issues. Though, I have no idea how much data is still going to MS which concerns me as well. I'm on a similar path, getting out of all of the silicon valley ecospheres.

Sorta relatedly, a mastodon instance is in the works as well, for sharing the latest g-baby pics with those who've dropped facebatter and the like.

[Hemiram]

I have friends who are Linux fanbois and they seem to do more complaining about non issues with Windows and Macs than doing anything else. One guy bought one of my old Dell Laptops and made some sort of semi-functioning Linux box out of it. It had issues from day one, and he seemed to blame it all on Win10, but it was always the mobo that had a problem with the USB ports. It has a pretty powerful video card in it and it runs very hot. He seemed to blame that on MS too, LOL.

Other than the snooping, I don't have many complaints about Windows from 7 on (I avoided 8 totally).
My new PCs have been great!

[mtnbkr]

I have friends who are Linux fanbois and they seem to do more complaining about non issues with Windows and Macs than doing anything else. One guy bought one of my old Dell Laptops and made some sort of semi-functioning Linux box out of it. It had issues from day one, and he seemed to blame it all on Win10, but it was always the mobo that had a problem with the USB ports. It has a pretty powerful video card in it and it runs very hot. He seemed to blame that on MS too, LOL.

Other than the snooping, I don't have many complaints about Windows from 7 on (I avoided 8 totally).
My new PCs have been great!

It doesn't get any better when they are systems engineering professionals and/or published authors (that one wrote the book on bash scripting). I've spent a large portion of my career working with linux, designing and deploying commercial systems, etc. It's safe to say I'm completely comfortable with the OS. But, Windows snooping aside, I'm just as content to use a properly specced Windows system. Since Win2k, Windows has worked fine for me. I'm typing this from a Linux system only because it had gotten old and sluggish (built it 8 years ago), so I decided to see if I could eke another year or two out of it. Mission accomplished on the performance front, but getting replacements for some of my Win apps (mainly for amateur radio use) was a bit problematic, requiring a mishmash of Linux apps, Win apps under Wine, and even a VM to run one app that just wouldn't work any other way. Luckily I seldom use that latter one.

Oh, and it seems to get confused about my Xerox laser printer. It prints fine, but every few days it lets me know it found a new printer...the same Xerox that I've had since I installed Linux. :rolleyes:

Chris

[Hemiram]

It doesn't get any better when they are systems engineering professionals and/or published authors (that one wrote the book on bash scripting). I've spent a large portion of my career working with linux, designing and deploying commercial systems, etc. It's safe to say I'm completely comfortable with the OS. But, Windows snooping aside, I'm just as content to use a properly specced Windows system. Since Win2k, Windows has worked fine for me. I'm typing this from a Linux system only because it had gotten old and sluggish (built it 8 years ago), so I decided to see if I could eke another year or two out of it. Mission accomplished on the performance front, but getting replacements for some of my Win apps (mainly for amateur radio use) was a bit problematic, requiring a mishmash of Linux apps, Win apps under Wine, and even a VM to run one app that just wouldn't work any other way. Luckily I seldom use that latter one.

Oh, and it seems to get confused about my Xerox laser printer. It prints fine, but every few days it lets me know it found a new printer...the same Xerox that I've had since I installed Linux. :rolleyes:

Chris

I've gotten to the point now where my patience with hardware issues (and old age after a certain point) is well, there isn't much patience anymore. I've written Dell off after two dud laptops in a row that had mobo issues that firmware/bios updates couldn't fix, and Dell wouldn't swap mobos or the whole thing. I spent a lot of money at Dell over the last 30+ years, but no more. Sad, my first two Dell laptops (Both Clevo builds) were great. One is 16 years old and currently is a friend's web browsing and Youtube machine for his stepkid. Games aren't really going to work on it, but it's a heavyweight 17" monster that I got a fantastic deal on back in 2005. The next 15" one was just as good, but the last two have really turned me off, especially the last one that ran insanely hot and had all it's crazy USB issues that made running accessories hit and miss. Was it the PC, or was the cable or device bad? You had to keep switching USB ports and keep trying. I just gave up after the extended warranty ran out, and went to a Clevo built 15.6 that worked great until I dropped it. Oh well, I never killed a laptop before, so I was due. The current one with an OLED display, 32 Gigs RAM and a 1TB SSD is fantastic. Another Clevo from Sager/Xotic PC. Not state of the art light or anything, but a very solid unit that has been flawless for the 7 months or so I've had it. And it runs so much cooler than the last Dells did, even with a 3070 video card, so no laptop cooler needed. I still use one, but mostly for the angle it puts the keyboard at and a cooler laptop can't hurt. Only negative is battery life is not great, but I rarely run it on battery anyway. That display is worth it!