Secondary Attacks on Crime Scenes

[HCM]

How common are secondary attacks on crime scenes in your area ?

https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2021/06/27/shots-fired-toward-police-medical-examiner-during-murder-investigation-officials-say/

Shots fired toward police, medical examiner during murder investigation, officials say
No one was injured and the suspect is unknown, according to SAPD



SAN ANTONIO – San Antonio police, detectives, a CSI civilian and the medical examiner all had to take cover after shots were fired in their direction while investigating a murder on the South Side overnight.
The incident happened around 2:43 a.m., Sunday, near the 2000 block of E. Southcross Boulevard.
Police said shots were fired in their direction as they were working a murder investigation after a man was found fatally shot, lying in the roadway. Officers said they could hear shots “zip above their heads,” and heard one round strike the road near them.

All of the officials on scene took cover behind their vehicles, according to police.
Additional officers were called to the area to help get officials out of the line of fire, get in contact with residents to ensure their safety, and set up a perimeter around the block.

[BehindBlueI's]

Extremely uncommon, but not never. I can think of at least one incident off the top of my head in my career. That one, the handcuffed suspect got shot. I don't know if they ever determined if the suspect was the actual target or the officers flanking him.

[Hambo]

Fortunately, I don't think that has happened at all here. However, in some neighborhoods, it's not uncommon for LE to be out on a call and hear a shooting go down nearby.

[kwb377]

I had it happen a couple of times back in the day when I worked Patrol, at the terminus of pursuits in the projects.

Nothing like the sound of a "Welcome to the neighborhood!" AK/SKS being lit off nearby. After one pursuit, one of the involved agencies lightbar was shot off about 50 feet from where we were standing...I think there were three of us trying to use one 8" diameter metal pole for cover on that one. :D

[jd950]

Not around here. At least not yet. Ambushes, yes.


How common are secondary attacks on crime scenes in your area ?

https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2021/06/27/shots-fired-toward-police-medical-examiner-during-murder-investigation-officials-say/

Shots fired toward police, medical examiner during murder investigation, officials say
No one was injured and the suspect is unknown, according to SAPD

[Coyotesfan97]

I can’t think of one at my agency but it was always a concern. When I was working gangs it was trained pretty heavily due to secondary drive-byes occurring in LA at the time. When I was on SWAT and K9 it was SOP for Gangs to ask for a couple SWAT guys to remain on scene for security after a warrant service.

[PD Sgt.]

We have had a few that I can recall, one in particular resulted in a very close call for a couple detectives sitting in their car reviewing notes. I believe the B pillar took one or two. Still very uncommon when you consider how many scenes we work.

[JF1]

While I was with my old agency, we had two officers murdered while on scenes by persons unrelated or not present during the initial stops.

In 1995, Officer Konopasek was killed while conducting a vehicle search where the driver had already been secured. https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Acquittal-in-Officer-s-Death-Oakland-man-2833172.php

In 1999, Officer Williams was killed while conducting an evidence search along the side of the freeway trying to locate a ditched firearm. https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Cop-killer-gets-an-earful-You-will-die-in-2644485.php

Not common until it is.

[BigDaddy]

I predicted over fifteen years ago that one day soon, the M4 would be the standard weapon for the Police and the pistol as the secondary. I think that we are well on our way to fulfilling that prediction. I predicted around five years ago that we would have to assign additional cars to protect those investigating crime scenes. I think we will be seeing that sooner than later. I remember when we had cars that were given jobs in the projects ( some where 19 story tall buildings ), that we had to assign cars to guard the cars of those who were working jobs inside those buildings and to protect/warn them of objects thrown at them from the upper floors as they exited those buildings. Sad times we are now in. And I think it's going to get worse , a lot worse before it get's better if it ever does.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

I predicted over fifteen years ago that one day soon, the M4 would be the standard weapon for the Police and the pistol as the secondary. I think that we are well on our way to fulfilling that prediction. I predicted around five years ago that we would have to assign additional cars to protect those investigating crime scenes. I think we will be seeing that sooner than later. I remember when we had cars that were given jobs in the projects ( some where 19 story tall buildings ), that we had to assign cars to guard the cars of those who were working jobs inside those buildings and to protect/warn them of objects thrown at them from the upper floors as they exited those buildings. Sad times we are now in. And I think it's going to get worse , a lot worse before it get's better if it ever does.

Excluding your M4/pistol thoughts your observations sound VERY sim. to what Pat spoke of during his NYPD days, damn I miss him.

[Joe Mac]

I think there were three of us trying to use one 8" diameter metal pole for cover on that one. :D

Yep, been there..

[Rick R]

We were working with the local DEA office trying to develop leads on a drug related murder years ago. During a jump out on some street corner entrepreneurs we rounded up a few, several ran off into the dark. I remember the tough guys the RAC and I were watching while the younger cops were off chasing on foot. Our of clutch bad guys weren’t particularly impressed with my MP-5 or the agent’s 9mm Colt SMG or our verbal commands, then someone let off a dozen or so 9mm in the darkness several blocks away and our charges were trying to crawl under our government rides.

I guess the “to whom it may concern” bullet is the great equalizer.

[HCM]

Looks like my town is getting wild post COVID …

https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2021/07/05/investigators-working-to-determine-cause-of-house-fire-on-west-side/

SAPD: Man who opened fire at KSAT journalists fatally shot by officers
Man barricaded himself after shooting at reporters, family


SAN ANTONIO – A man accused of shooting at his family and KSAT journalists was fatally shot by San Antonio police Monday after a standoff that lasted several hours.
Two KSAT journalists reporting at the scene of a house fire said the man, believed to be in his 20s, was digging through rubble with a large stick when they arrived. The man is believed to be part of the family who lives at the burned home, located in the 200 block of Noria Street.
KSAT reporter Dillon Collier and photographer Joshua Saunders were interviewing other members of the family near the house.
About 20 minutes after KSAT crews arrived on the scene, the man who had been digging through rubble emerged from the home with two handguns and began to shoot at Collier, Saunders and the family members. He fired several bullets at the journalists, who ran on foot, and the family, who took off in an SUV.
The man then took off on a bicycle and made his way into a home down the street, where he barricaded himself inside another home.

There were a number of people in that house,” San Antonio Police Chief William McManus said Monday following the standoff. “Apparently he know some folks who were in there. Those individuals, we were able to get them out.”
At one point, the suspect left the home and entered an air conditioned shed in the backyard, McManus said.
“The officers decided to try and lock him out of the house at that point,” McManus said.
The suspect allegedly saw the officers through the screen door of the house and shot at them. Five officers returned fire, killing the shooter, McManus said.
McManus said the suspect was in “close range” of the officers when gunfire was exchanged.

Arson investigators were involved at the scene because it was suspected someone fired bullets inside the home around the time it caught fire. Bullet casings could be seen in the area.

Before the shooting, a family member told KSAT that the home had been in the family for several generations.
The fire was called in around 1:30 a.m. Monday in the 200 block of Noria Street, not far from Brady Boulevard and Frio City Road on the West Side.
Firefighters said when they arrived, they found heavy flames showing the front of the house. Firefighters also had to deal with heavy smoke inside the home, fire officials said. The fire was put out quickly and without incident. Nobody was home at the time of the fire, firefighters said. Damage to the home is estimated at $60,000.
Neighbors questioned why police hadn’t arrested the man after the suspected arson occurred. McManus explained that police did not have a warrant and “no probable cause to make an arrest at that time.”

[awp_101]

Extremely uncommon, but not never. I can think of at least one incident off the top of my head in my career. That one, the handcuffed suspect got shot. I don't know if they ever determined if the suspect was the actual target or the officers flanking him.

You should write a children’s book, The Handcuffed Suspect and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day

[Snapshot]

Totally not my lane but interesting in a very bad way. Are you discussing situations where the original incident was staged as bait to set up police for attack? If so scary and despicable, but at least possible to understand albeit seems unlikely to end well for the people involved.

Or are these secondary attacks that were not planned, and people just decided ad-hoc to go after police that were there for another reason? If so even more scary and very difficult (for me) to understand - why would they do this, either spontaneously or even if provoked? Were they just carrying weapons anyway?

[Caballoflaco]

Or are these secondary attacks that were not planned, and people just decided ad-hoc to go after police that were there for another reason? If so even more scary and very difficult (for me) to understand - why would they do this, either spontaneously or even if provoked? Were they just carrying weapons anyway?

That one’s easy,

A. shooting at cops gets you street cred and increases your social status, especially if somebody is there to see it.

B. Some people hate cops, carry guns all the time because violence is a part of their day to day life and as Ice Cube said in Menace to Society “they don’t give a fuck”.

[HCM]

Metro Nashville PD— gunman enters crime scene and opens fire on officers:


https://youtu.be/e7yDJ0pKtz8

[HCM]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-deputies-say-multiple-people-shot-near-orlando

Florida news crew shot while covering shooting near Orlando, 2 dead, including 9-year-old: police
Florida deputies say that a woman was found dead in the same neighborhood earlier on Wednesday


Sheriff's deputies in Florida say four people were shot and two were killed on Wednesday afternoon in the same area where a woman was found dead earlier on the same day.

The Orange County Sheriff's Office said that one person was detained after the afternoon shooting, according to FOX 35.

Sheriff John Mina said that officers responded to reports of a shooting in the same area at 4:05 p.m, and added that a reporter and photographer with Spectrum News 13 in Orlando, Florida were shot. Mina added that one of the News 13 employees was killed.

After shooting at the News 13 car, the 19-year-old suspect allegedly went to a nearby house and shot a mother and her 9-year-old daughter, Mina said, adding that the 9-year-old had died.

Mina said that Keith Melvin Moses, 19, is in custody and is accused of being responsible for both shootings on Wednesday, which resulted in two deaths and three injuries.

The sheriff said that Moses has a "lengthy criminal history" ranging from gun charges, aggravated assault, aggravated battery, assault with a deadly weapon, burglary, and grand theft.

He added that Moses was an acquaintance of the woman killed this morning, but has no known connections to the mother, 9-year-old, or journalists who were shot.

Mina said that it's unclear why the journalists were targeted.


Deputies initially responded to a shooting at 11 a.m. in the Pine Hills neighborhood near Orlando, Florida, where a woman in her 20s was shot and killed, according to officials.

A spokesperson for Spectrum News told Fox News Digital that the company is mourning the loss of a colleague.

"We are deeply saddened by the loss of our colleague and the other lives senselessly taken today. Our thoughts are with our employee’s family, friends and co-workers during this very difficult time. We remain hopeful that our other colleague who was injured makes a full recovery," the spokesperson said. "This is a terrible tragedy for the Orlando community."