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senorlechero
07-24-2012, 02:00 PM
I know that I get what I pay for, that generally holds true with everything. However, I'm wondering if generic thread locker is a good value similar to generic OTC meds are.

Gunsmith and mechanical types, what say you? Thread locker or loctite?

My uses are pistol sights on guns that see a lot of use, and accessories on carbines that see even more use.

Dave J
07-24-2012, 06:59 PM
Although I usually use the Loctite products, I've never had a problem with the basic Red & Blue equivalents from Permatex, or the various car parts chains' store brands. However, it's not an area where I see an opportunity for much in the way of cost savings, especially if you buy from an industrial supply house rather than the local hardware store.

For specialty compounds, such as shaft retaining, wicking, etc., I'd stick with name brand stuff so I know exactly what I'm dealing with.

With thread lockers in general, surface prep is a key to success that is often overlooked. If the threads aren't clean & degreased, you're only fooling yourself, IMHO.

HTH,
Dave

senorlechero
07-24-2012, 08:04 PM
especially if you buy from an industrial supply house rather than the local hardware store.

With thread lockers in general, surface prep is a key to success that is often overlooked. If the threads aren't clean & degreased, you're only fooling yourself, IMHO.

HTH,
Dave

Do you have an industrial supply house that you can recommend? And what do you use for surface prep?

Corey
07-24-2012, 10:11 PM
I usually get that type of thing, and many other supplies, from Mcmaster-Carr.

As for prep, degrease both the screw and the hole with a good solvent that doesn't leave a residue, and don't use too much thread locking compound. You only need a small amount. Just follow the instructions and use the correct type for the particular application.

JAD
07-24-2012, 10:47 PM
Loctite makes a primer that works better than solvents, I've learned through a couple of FMEAs.

Dave J
07-24-2012, 10:57 PM
McMaster-Carr is good, as is MSC Industrial Supply. If you have any interest in mechanical arts, both of their catalogs belong in your shop.

Brake Parts Cleaner, or Electrical Contact Cleaner, are my usual solvents for thread cleaning. I'd suggest the nonchlorinated versions, in case you need to use them around plastics etc. Acetone works too, but I haven't tested it on a Glock frame yet :)

ETA: Carroll Smith (Author of the "Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners, and Plumbing Handbook" that I refer to often) also recommends the Loctite brand primers, but I haven't personally tried those yet.

senorlechero
07-25-2012, 12:02 AM
Loctite makes a primer that works better than solvents, I've learned through a couple of FMEAs.

Is this necessary for gun parts? Dave Dawson says he uses lacquer thinner in his Glock sight install video.

JAD
07-25-2012, 06:04 AM
Depends. Probably not.

BLR
07-25-2012, 08:21 AM
Permatex and Loctite, I believe, are both owned by Woodhill Chemical in Cleveland. I was there for an adhesives and coatings seminar a couple of years ago.

No functional difference between them.

senorlechero
07-25-2012, 12:25 PM
Permatex and Loctite, I believe, are both owned by Woodhill Chemical in Cleveland. I was there for an adhesives and coatings seminar a couple of years ago.

No functional difference between them.

Thanks for the input all.

Next question: I've heard a few places that using loctite 620 on front sights is recommended as it resists heat to a higher temp. However the green thread locker from permatex says its a penetrating formula for use on pre assembled items, and not a high heat one. Are these the same formula?
Sorry I'm asking dunce questions, but I'm an infantryman and have been since HS, so reading the formulas and aging and MSDS ad naseum is a bit over my head.

Dave J
07-25-2012, 03:38 PM
Next question: I've heard a few places that using loctite 620 on front sights is recommended as it resists heat to a higher temp. However the green thread locker from permatex says its a penetrating formula for use on pre assembled items, and not a high heat one. Are these the same formula?


620 is the shaft retaining compound, and although it has a green dye (IIRC), it is NOT even close to your everyday "green loctite", which is the "wicking" 290 formula.

Simon
07-25-2012, 05:47 PM
Is this necessary for gun parts? Dave Dawson says he uses lacquer thinner in his Glock sight install video.

Lacquer thinner leaves a residue. I prefer acetone. I didn't know loc tite made a primer, butI think I will get some.

Spr1
07-25-2012, 07:53 PM
Brownells is also a source for the Loctite primer. And, it does work well. I will typically degrease both male and female threads with alcohol, prime and allow the primer to dry before apply the thread locking compound.

senorlechero
07-26-2012, 01:45 PM
620 is the shaft retaining compound, and although it has a green dye (IIRC), it is NOT even close to your everyday "green loctite", which is the "wicking" 290 formula.

How are they different? Sorry, but I don't know what shaft retaining compound means.

What I'm getting from this is: I should use acetone to degrease, then the primer to prep and the red and blue permatex are fine, but I should use Loctite 620 for front sights?

Dave J
07-27-2012, 09:22 AM
Shaft retaining compounds, like #620, were designed for locking press-fit gears or collars in position on metal shafts. What makes #620 ideal for many gunsmithing purposes, is that it fills voids in metal better than the regular compounds intended for threaded fasteners.

#290 is an especially runny medium strength liquid that can "wick" its way into fasteners that are already assembled. Being so thin, it does not fill voids well, nor is it nearly as strong as #620.

You might find it useful to look over Loctite's web site, when time permits.

HTH,
Dave

senorlechero
07-28-2012, 06:36 PM
Shaft retaining compounds, like #620, were designed for locking press-fit gears or collars in position on metal shafts. What makes #620 ideal for many gunsmithing purposes, is that it fills voids in metal better than the regular compounds intended for threaded fasteners.

#290 is an especially runny medium strength liquid that can "wick" its way into fasteners that are already assembled. Being so thin, it does not fill voids well, nor is it nearly as strong as #620.

You might find it useful to look over Loctite's web site, when time permits.

HTH,
Dave



Thank you for the explanation. Are you referring to their consumer site, or the commercial site, henkel? Those are the only 2 I could find.

Thanks for the input, from what I can tell 242, 262 and 620 are ideal for gun applications.

Spr1
07-29-2012, 05:55 AM
The purple, low strength, 222, is good for things like 1911 grip screws.
If you Google the individual Loctite grades you will come across PDF's of the material properties.

Ray Keith
10-21-2012, 08:50 PM
Hate to bump an old thread, but I am con-fuzzzed...

What do I have here, these are the types I have always bought, but now I see the discussion of Red vs Blue vs Green and various numbers... What kind of loctite do I have here?

1104

Is this stuff sufficient for screws on rails, front sight posts etc... ?

Thanks

MEH
10-21-2012, 08:54 PM
Hate to bump an old thread, but I am con-fuzzzed...

What do I have here, these are the types I have always bought, but now I see the discussion of Red vs Blue vs Green and various numbers... What kind of loctite do I have here?

Is this stuff sufficient for screws on rails, front sight posts etc... ?

Thanks

What you have there is super glue. NOT sufficient for gunsmithing applications.

Ray Keith
10-21-2012, 09:00 PM
What you have there is super glue. NOT sufficient for gunsmithing applications.

Thank you.

What type do I need for what I put above, and where is the best place to find it?

Dave J
10-24-2012, 07:37 AM
Any hardware store, auto parts store, or even Walmart will have your basic red & blue formula thread lockers.

Screws on rails, glock front sights, dovetailed rear sights etc. get blue (242).

Staked in parts, dovetailed front sights, etc. get red, or shaft ret compound.
Rarely I'll use red on a threaded fastener, but blue usually is best.

Hilton Yam's blog had a good rundown on the use of Loctite for gunsmith inch apps.

JV_
10-24-2012, 07:41 AM
Screws on rails, glock front sights, dovetailed rear sights etc. get blue (242).IMO, 242 is a bad choice for front sights. They can get quite hot.

LOKNLOD
10-24-2012, 07:46 AM
Thank you.

What type do I need for what I put above, and where is the best place to find it?

These. (Link to Loctite's page) (http://www.loctiteproducts.com/threadlockers.shtml)

Ray Keith
10-24-2012, 08:25 AM
These. (Link to Loctite's page) (http://www.loctiteproducts.com/threadlockers.shtml)

Thanks everyone.

Dave J
10-24-2012, 09:24 AM
IMO, 242 is a bad choice for front sights. They can get quite hot.

It's sufficient, IMHO. Going to red greatly increases the chances of breaking the tiny little screw if you later decide to remove the sight, even with heat added. If you view front sights as a disposable item, or as something you'll never change, feel free to use red, or even 620 if it makes you happy.

Google Hilton Yam's blog post -- I'll post a link later when I have a real computer in front of me.

JV_
10-24-2012, 09:32 AM
or even 620 if it makes you happy.Actually, I do use 620 for Glock front sights. I have had issues with both 242 and 272 coming loose. I've never had an issue removing the screws and moving sights around, even with 620.

I get my guns hotter than many. On some range days, I get my guns so hot you can't touch that tiny slide lock without significant discomfort.

MEH
10-24-2012, 09:34 AM
Hilton Yam's Glock sight installation (http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/2011/03/glock-sight-installation.html)

I don't trust 242 on the front even though it's what Hilton recommends. I don't want it having a remote chance of loosening. I use the Permatex version of Loctite 620.

Dave J
10-24-2012, 10:08 AM
Actually, I do use 620 for Glock front sights. I have had issues with both 242 and 272 coming loose. I've never had an issue removing the screws and moving sights around, even with 620.

I get my guns hotter than many. On some range days, I get my guns so hot you can't touch that tiny slide lock without significant discomfort.

I guess that settles that, then. Apparently, my ammo budget isn't allowing me to run mine hard enough. :)

Dave J
10-24-2012, 10:15 AM
This is the article I was trying to refer to earlier, for a quick intro to the use of Loctite on firearms. (It was actually from Tim Lau, not Hilton Yam)

Guide to Thread Locking Compounds
http://10-8training.blogspot.com/2012/06/guide-to-thread-locking-compounds.html

He doesn't mention 620, but that's basically a high temp version of 638.
Low strength 222 "Purple" and "Wicking" 290 aren't mentioned either, but occasionally have some utility, as discussed earlier in the thread.