Taking a chance on a Stoeger M3000 Freedom Series Defense Shotgun - opinions?

[4given]

Continuing my search for a decent inexpensive home defense semi-auto shot gun. The Black Aces turned out to be a bust.

This time I ordered a Stoeger M3000 #31890FS (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=31890FS) I'm hoping this will be a lot better rig.

Anybody own one/use one? Good experiences? Advice?

73329

[Lex Luthier]

Continuing my search for a decent inexpensive home defense semi-auto shot gun. The Black Aces turned out to be a bust.

This time I ordered a Stoeger M3000 #31890FS (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=31890FS) I'm hoping this will be a lot better rig.

Anybody own one/use one? Good experiences? Advice?

73329

Following for interest.

These have come up in past discussions here as a generally reliable alternative. Stoeger is owned by Benelli, which in turn is owned by Beretta. That may mean that parts are semi-obtanium.

[Rick R]

I’ve had a Stoeger M3K for several years, it’s not a Benelli or Beretta (though it shares parts with the Benelli) but fed good ammo it’s been better than a lot of other semiauto shotguns I’ve seen.
MOA Precision offers an adapter to use a Magpul Mossberg stock that is a good upgrade along with other parts

[4given]

Following for interest.

These have come up in past discussions here as a generally reliable alternative. Stoeger is owned by Benelli, which in turn is owned by Beretta. That may mean that parts are semi-obtanium.

The fact that Stoeger is owned by Benelli and that they are of similar design helped me decide to try one.

[Lon]

TCinVA spoke well of them. I’ve got my eye on the same model you just got.

[4given]

I’ve had a Stoeger M3K for several years, it’s not a Benelli or Beretta (though it shares parts with the Benelli) but fed good ammo it’s been better than a lot of other semiauto shotguns I’ve seen.
MOA Precision offers an adapter to use a Magpul Mossberg stock that is a good upgrade along with other parts

I saw somewhere that the Stoeger uses the same bolt as the Benelli?

[4given]

TCinVA spoke well of them. I’ve got my eye on the same model you just got.

I saw that too. I only found two places online that had any in stock. Had to pay full retail which is $619. Did get free shipping so that helps.

[4given]

I wonder if these cycle Federal 132LE00 and other low recoil buckshot. I just bought some so I hope so.

[DIESEL]

I don't have any experience with the defensive ones but have been hunting with an M3500 for two seasons and it has held up well in all kinds of wet and muddy conditions. It cycles everything from 2 3/4 target to 3.5 goose loads just fine, although I did have issues with light loads out of the box. One of the only guns in my experience that truly needs a break in of full power loads. I would definitely recommend them.

[Gray Ghost]

How much are you saving over a 1301?

[4given]

How much are you saving over a 1301?

The Stoeger is a about half the price of a 1301T from what I can find on line. The cheapest 1301T I can fine right now is $1260.00 plus shipping. The Stoeger was $619.00 shipped

I might still wind up with a 1301T when this is all over, ya never know!

[4given]

I don't have any experience with the defensive ones but have been hunting with an M3500 for two seasons and it has held up well in all kinds of wet and muddy conditions. It cycles everything from 2 3/4 target to 3.5 goose loads just fine, although I did have issues with light loads out of the box. One of the only guns in my experience that truly needs a break in of full power loads. I would definitely recommend them.

I have a bunch of Federal 1 1/8 oz 3 dram 1200 fps loads. I wonder if that is "full power" enough? Tough to find much 12 ga right now.

[Rick R]

I saw somewhere that the Stoeger uses the same bolt as the Benelli?

I’m not sure about the actual bolthead, I believe the bcg is different.



I wonder if these cycle Federal 132LE00 and other low recoil buckshot. I just bought some so I hope so.

My M3K is just fine with what little Federal 132LE00 I’ve put thru it. It did not like some Fiocchi low recoil I found but worked with their normal load. It runs well with low brass promo ammo shooting sporting clays or skeet and MOA has a reduced power recoil spring which I have but never installed (he sent it to me gratis because HE decided he had taken too long to ship a part I ordered. I thought his shipping time was quite reasonable).

[CarlK]

I am pleased with my Stoeger but did make some improvements (it is my CA-legal long gun when I go down there on protection details). In its stock form it much prefers full velocity buckshot (00 at 1350+ versus tactical 00 at 1150). When firing tactical buckshot the action was noticeably slower over the standard velocity buckshot and I would get a failure to extract once every 8 shots. 3 dram birdshot seemed to cycle a bit better versus other birdshot. I shopped at MOA Precision and ended up getting their Magpul SGA adapter, reduced recoil spring and heavy bolt system. It now fires everything I feed it.

I installed a Briley Mlok rail, a GG&G oversized charging handle, a Surefire 340C light, and a Holosun 510C. Granted this was a significant investment on my part but Benellis and 1301Ts weren’t available or were cost prohibitive. I feel very well equipped with the Stoeger when I can’t bring my DD SBR along for the ride.

[HCM]

Continuing my search for a decent inexpensive home defense semi-auto shot gun. The Black Aces turned out to be a bust.

This time I ordered a Stoeger M3000 #31890FS (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=31890FS) I'm hoping this will be a lot better rig.

Anybody own one/use one? Good experiences? Advice?

73329

more info here: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?43425-Run-what-you-brung-Stoeger-M3000-transitioning-duty

[awp_101]

Following because I want a 1301T but don't want to spend 1301T money on what would realistically be a tertiary or quaternary HD option despite being tall on cool points. kjr_29, any updates on yours?

[ldunnmobile]

Be sure and clean the factory grease off it when you first get it and then lube it up or you’ll have cycling issues shortly.

I like mine. Tremendous value. Is it as nice as the 1301 I had... no. But it’s pretty good and it’s a fraction of the price.

[4given]

I am pleased with my Stoeger but did make some improvements (it is my CA-legal long gun when I go down there on protection details). In its stock form it much prefers full velocity buckshot (00 at 1350+ versus tactical 00 at 1150). When firing tactical buckshot the action was noticeably slower over the standard velocity buckshot and I would get a failure to extract once every 8 shots. 3 dram birdshot seemed to cycle a bit better versus other birdshot. I shopped at MOA Precision and ended up getting their Magpul SGA adapter, reduced recoil spring and heavy bolt system. It now fires everything I feed it.

I installed a Briley Mlok rail, a GG&G oversized charging handle, a Surefire 340C light, and a Holosun 510C. Granted this was a significant investment on my part but Benellis and 1301Ts weren’t available or were cost prohibitive. I feel very well equipped with the Stoeger when I can’t bring my DD SBR along for the ride.

That turned out really nice. Thanks for the tip on the MOA reduced recoil spring. I'll check that out. Did you install a Benelli extractor and spring? I have been reading a lot of guys do.

[4given]

Be sure and clean the factory grease off it when you first get it and then lube it up or you’ll have cycling issues shortly.

I like mine. Tremendous value. Is it as nice as the 1301 I had... no. But it’s pretty good and it’s a fraction of the price.

Will do! That's my usual SOP.

[CarlK]

That turned out really nice. Thanks for the tip on the MOA reduced recoil spring. I'll check that out. Did you install a Benelli extractor and spring? I have been reading a lot of guys do.

I did install the Benelli spring and ended up going with the MOA version of the Benelli extractor (Benelli’s OEM part was indefinitely back-ordered.)

[4given]

My Stoeger M3000 came in yesterday.

For those of you who are thinking of getting one of these and those who are just curious, I took some pictures after I disassembled it for cleaning out the factory oils and re-lubing. I was pleased with what I saw. Check it out:

QA/QC sticker and a 5 year warranty. That's a good start
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Oversized bolt release
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Rail
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Adjustable Ghost ring sight
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Anodized aluminum mag follower
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BCG - Looks similar to the Benelli M2?
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Came with some stock shims to adjust cast off. at least that is what I think they are. Please correct me if I am wrong.
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Over sized bolt handle
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Trigger group / Fire Control Assembly
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Fiber optic front sight
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Barrel
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Cleaned, lubed and assembled. I hope to get out to the range and break it in by this weekend
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[Lon]

Looks good. Is it missing a screw in the optic mount?

[4given]

Looks good. Is it missing a screw in the optic mount?

I'll have to look again when I get home from work tonight. I think that the receiver is not tapped in that center location but I could be wrong. I'll let you know.

[4given]

Any recommendations for a good light mount to fit this thing?

[Lon]

Any recommendations for a good light mount to fit this thing?

I’d check out the diameters of the barrel and tube and see if this works:
https://nordiccomp.com/product-category/shotgun/barrel-clamps-and-clamp-accessories/

[4given]

I’d check out the diameters of the barrel and tube and see if this works:
https://nordiccomp.com/product-category/shotgun/barrel-clamps-and-clamp-accessories/

I already emailed Nordic.. They said their standard clamp would only work with their mag extensions. An ad for the Nordic standard clamp on MidwayUSA said it would fit Nordic mas and any mag measuring 1.06" I measured the Stoeger at 0.98"

[4given]

I’d check out the diameters of the barrel and tube and see if this works:
https://nordiccomp.com/product-category/shotgun/barrel-clamps-and-clamp-accessories/


Lon, I went ahead and ordered this one to try. In the "questions" section two people claim they fit their M3000's nicely. If it does not fit Amazon returns are pretty easy!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082KL4VR4/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B082KL4VR4&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20

[Lon]

Lon, I went ahead and ordered this one to try. In the "questions" section two people claim they fit their M3000's nicely. If it does not fit Amazon returns are pretty easy!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082KL4VR4/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B082KL4VR4&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20

Nice. Thanks for being a guinea pig!!!

[Rick R]

Lon, I went ahead and ordered this one to try. In the "questions" section two people claim they fit their M3000's nicely. If it does not fit Amazon returns are pretty easy!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082KL4VR4/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B082KL4VR4&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20

I’m interested in how that mount works for you, I need something similar for my two 870’s.

Please tell us you have clothes on in the third photo down (even if it isn’t true). :D

I don’t think my M3k came with the nifty red aluminum follower. The bolt release and handle look the same except mine are metallic blue. The bore and chamber appears to have been chromed like my gun, does it use choke tubes?

It looks to me like you got a well sorted out shotgun, hopefully it runs well.

[4given]

Nice. Thanks for being a guinea pig!!!

You are welcome. I am a natural. When I was young, my parents were so poor they had to rent me out for medical experiments .... :D:p

[4given]

I’m interested in how that mount works for you, I need something similar for my two 870’s.

Please tell us you have clothes on in the third photo down (even if it isn’t true). :D

I don’t think my M3k came with the nifty red aluminum follower. The bolt release and handle look the same except mine are metallic blue. The bore and chamber appears to have been chromed like my gun, does it use choke tubes?

It looks to me like you got a well sorted out shotgun, hopefully it runs well.

Fully clothed. Shorts and a t-shirt only. It's 100+ deg here in Idaho right now! ( I should have cropped that picture ...) LOL

No choke tubes - Cylinder bore.

I'll report back on how the light mount works and how the shotgun runs. I probably won't make it to the range until Saturday morning.

[4given]

Looks good. Is it missing a screw in the optic mount?

I just checked it out. The receiver is not drilled and tapped for that middle position

[Lon]

I just checked it out. The receiver is not drilled and tapped for that middle position

Huh. Interesting.

Run the crap out of that please and keep us informed. I’m seriously wanting one of these

[4given]

Huh. Interesting.

Run the crap out of that please and keep us informed. I’m seriously wanting one of these

That's the plan!

[Chuck Whitlock]

Looks quite a bit like my Benelli M1 Super 90.

[4given]

I made it to the range and broke it in with 100 rounds of Federal bulk pack from Wal-Mart. It ran great with no failures. It's this stuff here:

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After that I ran 15 rounds of Federal LE13200 and 10 rounds of Hornady Critical Defense 00 buck through it with no issues. So far so good.

So far I like it just fine. It seems to be well made and functional. 5 year warranty. Feels solid in my hands. Well balanced, nice sights. Plenty of shotgun for the average Joe I would think. Looked on line and MOA has lots of parts. Nice gun IMHO.

I don't care for the trigger. Mushy and heavy. I see there are some trigger kits for it so I will probably try one of those. Kicks hard like a pump gun. It's inertia driven. The stock is a little long for me and the recoil pad seems hard. The recoil spring is not in the stock like the Benelli so I should be able to shorten the stock and fit a Limb Saver pad to it. I have a light mount arriving today.

I'm pretty happy with it so far. Me Likey! I'll let you all know how the flashlight mount works out.

[Rick R]

The Magpul stock was a good upgrade IMHO. The recoil pad helps quite a bit with recoil compared to the OEM brick and the ergonomics are just better.

[CarlK]

I also found the OEM stock overly long and installed the Magpul SGA which made a huge difference.

[4given]

I also found the OEM stock overly long and installed the Magpul SGA which made a huge difference.

I'm sure that is a really nice upgrade. Looks like by the time I buy the MOA adapter and the stock I would be into it another $160 or so. I'll probably just cut the stock down for now.

[4given]

The Magpul stock was a good upgrade IMHO. The recoil pad helps quite a bit with recoil compared to the OEM brick and the ergonomics are just better.

Loos like the stock adapter, reduced rate recoil spring are out of stock at MOA Presison.

[4given]

This weekend I put on a recoil pad and a shell holder.

For the recoil pad I used a Sims LimbSaver Airtech Slip-On Recoil Pad. I did not want to do a grind to fit pad because I don't have a belt sander to do a proper installation. Also, I may want to shorten the stock at some point. So that left me with the slip on model. I did not want to increase the length of pull so I removed the stock butt pad.

The Stoeger M3000 butt stock is hollow leaving very little for a slip on pad to press against while under recoil. So I fabricated a thin plate from a piece of scrap laminated wood flooring to fit flush inside the stock. See picture below:

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Not perfect but close enough to work. Now with the slip on pad installed the LOP seems it may be just a tad bit shorter.


It seems nobody makes a sidesaddle that mounts to the Stoeger M3000 that's not a nylon/velcro product. I didn't want to go that way so I used a Hill People Gear stock cuff. These are very well made and work great. (Thank you Lester Polfus) The strap on the back keeps the cuff from moving forward and the cuff as a whole should help keep the recoil pad in place.

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So here it what my rig looks like so far:

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I am still looking for a flashlight mount that will work to my satisfaction. I tried the CDM Gear ROC-12R Low Profile Light Mount with Built-In Tac Flashlight Ring but I could not tighten it enough to be secure without causing the magazine feeding malfunctions. I could get even close to the recommended 15-20 inch pounds of torque.

I ordered an Elzetta ZSM Tactical Shotgun Flashlight Mount to try. Ill let you all know if it works any better

[4given]

posted by mistake.

[4given]

Put 75 more rounds of target loads through the Stoeger last light after work without any failures. That's a total of 200 rounds with no malfunctions. While by no means a torture test, I think it can be trusted to live under my bed loaded with buckshot.

The Sims LimbSaver recoil pad worked very well. It is a "Must Have" IMHO. Way more comfortable to shoot with this thing on. Made quite a bit of difference.

I had issues with the Elzetta ZSM Tactical Shotgun Flashlight Mount. I could not tighten it enough to keep it from moving under recoil without causing magazine issues. I tried adjusting the tension many times at the range but could not get it to work. I am going to try using some strips of bicycle innertube to see if that might afford a bit more traction. I wish GG&G made one that fits a Stoeger.

I'll report back.

[CJK]

Please keep the information coming. I'm very interested in this gun. Its made in 20 ga as well, and different barrel options seem reasonable in price. Wondering if it would be a good all around gun.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[4given]

I sent my Elzetta ZSM Tactical Shotgun Flashlight Mount back & they sent me a new one. I mounted the new one with strips of bicycle inner tube between the mag tube, barrel and the mount. This allowed me to tighten the mount a lot more before magazine binding would occur.

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I took the shotgun to the range and fired another 50 rounds through it. The shotgun performed flawlessly with every shot. The light mount and flashlight stayed firmly in place.

The ammo used was 25 rounds of Federal 3 dram 1 1/8 oz 1200 fps loads

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and 25 rounds of Federal 2 3/4 dram 1 1/8 1145 FPS loads.

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The Federal 2 3/4 dram 1 1/8 1145 FPS load should approximate the recoil impulse of the Federal 132LE 00 with 9 pellets weighing right at 1 1/10 oz with a muzzle velocity of 1145 fps.

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So far I have a total of 250 rounds through this shotgun with no malfunctions.

The trigger is breaking in and feels much better now.

I was thinking of putting a spring kit in the trigger but I think I will leave it alone. I still may put a reduced rate recoil spring in it when they become available but I am not certain. It seems to be functioning fine with lighter loads. I', thinking maybe the reduced rate spring might be insurance against malfunctions in the event I don't have the weapon properly mounted on my shoulder or I have a situation when I have to fire it from the hip or some other awkward positions. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

So far I am really pleased how this rig is coming together .

[entropy]

A couple of thoughts whose worth may or may not be negligible...

Another idea if the inner tube doesn’t work is 3M skid tape. (Like used on steps.). I have a light mount on an 870 that suffered the same issues. You just couldn’t get it tight enough. I applied a few strips to the magazine tube and it seems to have done the trick.

As far as the spring goes, that may not be a bad idea. Heavy training use use the stronger spring. Put the lighter one in (after function testing) for serious uses. I recall doing the same type of thing back when I was bird hunting. IIRC, I had an Auto 20 and another 28ga that used a bronze sleeve that managed recoil functions. I’d set it up for light loads but carried some high brass 6’s in case the dogs stumbled on pheasants while quail hunting.

[GearFondler]

I sent my Elzetta ZSM Tactical Shotgun Flashlight Mount back & they sent me a new one. I mounted the new one with strips of bicycle inner tube between the mag tube, barrel and the mount. This allowed me to tighten the mount a lot more before magazine binding would occur.

74421 74420

I took the shotgun to the range and fired another 50 rounds through it. The shotgun performed flawlessly with every shot. The light mount and flashlight stayed firmly in place.

The ammo used was 25 rounds of Federal 3 dram 1 1/8 oz 1200 fps loads

74418

and 25 rounds of Federal 2 3/4 dram 1 1/8 1145 FPS loads.

74416

The Federal 2 3/4 dram 1 1/8 1145 FPS load should approximate the recoil impulse of the Federal 132LE 00 with 9 pellets weighing right at 1 1/10 oz with a muzzle velocity of 1145 fps.

74417



So far I have a total of 250 rounds through this shotgun with no malfunctions.

The trigger is breaking in and feels much better now.

I was thinking of putting a spring kit in the trigger but I think I will leave it alone. I still may put a reduced rate recoil spring in it when they become available but I am not certain. It seems to be functioning fine with lighter loads. I', thinking maybe the reduced rate spring might be insurance against malfunctions in the event I don't have the weapon properly mounted on my shoulder or I have a situation when I have to fire it from the hip or some other awkward positions. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

So far I am really pleased how this rig is coming together .Non-expert opinion, but isn't the reduced spring for insuring function with light loads? What situation would you be in where you required proper function with light loads and suboptimal mounting? The compromised shooting would be in a self defense situation, correct? And the load used for this situation should be some kind of Duty load, correct? I don't see where the reduced spring would help you out.

[4given]

Non-expert opinion, but isn't the reduced spring for insuring function with light loads? What situation would you be in where you required proper function with light loads and suboptimal mounting? The compromised shooting would be in a self defense situation, correct? And the load used for this situation should be some kind of Duty load, correct? I don't see where the reduced spring would help you out.

Thanks for the input. My thoughts are these: The Federal Duty loads like 132LE and 133LE are light reduced recoil loads. The Stoeger M3000 has a inertia driven action. As such, it cycles best when pressed against the shoulder. In a self defense situation where you had to shoot from the hip or whatever, would the reduced recoil spring help insure cycling?

[GearFondler]

Thanks for the input. My thoughts are these: The Federal Duty loads like 132LE and 133LE are light reduced recoil loads. The Stoeger M3000 has a inertia driven action. As such, it cycles best when pressed against the shoulder. In a self defense situation where you had to shoot from the hip or whatever, would the reduced recoils spring help insure cycling?I have no idea... TCinVA may have some words of wisdom for you.

[4given]

A couple of thoughts whose worth may or may not be negligible...

Another idea if the inner tube doesn’t work is 3M skid tape. (Like used on steps.). I have a light mount on an 870 that suffered the same issues. You just couldn’t get it tight enough. I applied a few strips to the magazine tube and it seems to have done the trick.

As far as the spring goes, that may not be a bad idea. Heavy training use use the stronger spring. Put the lighter one in (after function testing) for serious uses. I recall doing the same type of thing back when I was bird hunting. IIRC, I had an Auto 20 and another 28ga that used a bronze sleeve that managed recoil functions. I’d set it up for light loads but carried some high brass 6’s in case the dogs stumbled on pheasants while quail hunting.

The innertube strips are working really well so far. The mount did not budge at all.

I may try the lighter recoil spring if they ever get them back in stock and fire a bunch of light target loads from the hip and see if they cycle properly. I guess that would tell the story.

[4given]

I have no idea... TCinVA may have some words of wisdom for you.

Yes he would probably know

[DDTSGM]

I still may put a reduced rate recoil spring in it when they become available but I am not certain. It seems to be functioning fine with lighter loads. I', thinking maybe the reduced rate spring might be insurance against malfunctions in the event I don't have the weapon properly mounted on my shoulder or I have a situation when I have to fire it from the hip or some other awkward positions. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

So far I am really pleased how this rig is coming together .

I wouldn't put a reduced weight recoil spring in the shotgun period, but especially for just in case, especially if you haven't verified 'just in case.'

IMO, if you need a lighter spring to reliably cycle an inertia drive system with reduced recoil loads, my suggestion would be to get a gas operated shotgun.

Worried about shooting from the hip - see if it functions.

Worried about shooting it with a sub-optimal mount into the shoulder - shoot it with a sub-optimal mount.

Worried about it functioning while shooting urban prone - shoot it urban prone.

Worried about shooting one-handed from the shoulder - shoot it one handed from the shoulder.

You get the drift.

If you find it doesn't function in these scenarios - with YOU holding onto it - I'd then address options.

JMO worth what it cost.

[4given]

I wouldn't put a reduced weight recoil spring in the shotgun period, but especially for just in case, especially if you haven't verified 'just in case.'

IMO, if you need a lighter spring to reliably cycle an inertia drive system with reduced recoil loads, my suggestion would be to get a gas operated shotgun.

Worried about shooting from the hip - see if it functions.

Worried about shooting it with a sub-optimal mount into the shoulder - shoot it with a sub-optimal mount.

Worried about it functioning while shooting urban prone - shoot it urban prone.

Worried about shooting one-handed from the shoulder - shoot it one handed from the shoulder.

You get the drift.

If you find it doesn't function in these scenarios - with YOU holding onto it - I'd then address options.

JMO worth what it cost.


Good advice. Thanks!

[DDTSGM]

4given - wringing it out that way will be fun and instructive, let us know.

[TCinVA]

Yes he would probably know

I'm flattered you guys think so.

The specific answer here is that without testing your specific gun with the specific ammo in question that way, you won't know for sure.

The trainer's answer here would be that what is commonly referred to as "hip shooting" with a firearm isn't really a useful methodology. Whether discussing a pistol or a long gun, use of the gun "from the hip" doesn't allow visual verification of where, exactly, the projectile(s) are going. Under ideal range conditions where the shooter and target are static, the distance is known, and the shooter can pick his moment it is possible to make hits.

Stuff like this:


https://youtu.be/et5FHMwB3gY

...has proven ineffectual at teaching a typical person how to prevail in a gunfight. From a teaching perspective, we don't want people trying to use shotguns like that. The various "shockwave" style guns on the market are a terrible idea as a defensive tool that can really only be made useful for the typical person by adding something like a laser on them. Even in my hands, a "shockwave" takes twice as long to get on target and use as a properly stocked shotgun used from the shoulder.

If we are talking close quarters use of a shotgun, short stocking is usually a superior method and when used with the proper technique isn't any more or less reliable than use of the gun on the shoulder.

If we are talking about diminished capacity use of the gun a la Special Agent Mireles in the Miami fight, attempting use from the hip is going to be less effective than getting whatever shoulder still works behind the gun.

The inertia recoil system depends on a difference in movement between the bolt assembly and the whole gun. From a purely functional perspective, the inertia guns have a happy zone where they function reliably. That happy zone depends on a certain amount of recoil taking place to allow the mechanism to work properly. This means that someone like Rob Haught finds inertia-based semi-autos useless because his recoil mitigation is so powerful that he actually chokes the gun by not letting it move enough to operate. I don't find many people who have the same problem because they aren't as strong or skilled at the technique as Rob Haught.

Conversely, if you allow the whole gun to move too much, it will rob the bolt of the energy needed to complete the ejection and feeding cycle.

If I had to venture an educated guess, I'd say that trying to run an inertia based gun "from the hip" with low recoil ammunition is a good way to induce stoppages. My recommendation would be to eschew using the gun "from the hip" because it's generally a poor methodology for effective use of the gun.

If you depend on the gun for self defense, it is a good idea to explore function with low recoil shells and what conditions are required to make it run reliably...but I'd consider it's ability to function in "hip shooting" to be ranked somewhere below whether or not I like the color in terms of importance to me. YMMV.

[kjr_29]

Following because I want a 1301T but don't want to spend 1301T money on what would realistically be a tertiary or quaternary HD option despite being tall on cool points. kjr_29, any updates on yours?

No updates really, it runs like a champ. Pretty pleased with mine until I saw that MLOK ha sugars above, then jealousy struck.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[kjr_29]

Lon, I went ahead and ordered this one to try. In the "questions" section two people claim they fit their M3000's nicely. If it does not fit Amazon returns are pretty easy!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082KL4VR4/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B082KL4VR4&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20

I’m using the Nordic clamp on mine.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[CJK]

I'm flattered you guys think so.

The specific answer here is that without testing your specific gun with the specific ammo in question that way, you won't know for sure.

The trainer's answer here would be that what is commonly referred to as "hip shooting" with a firearm isn't really a useful methodology. Whether discussing a pistol or a long gun, use of the gun "from the hip" doesn't allow visual verification of where, exactly, the projectile(s) are going. Under ideal range conditions where the shooter and target are static, the distance is known, and the shooter can pick his moment it is possible to make hits.

Stuff like this:


https://youtu.be/et5FHMwB3gY

...has proven ineffectual at teaching a typical person how to prevail in a gunfight. From a teaching perspective, we don't want people trying to use shotguns like that. The various "shockwave" style guns on the market are a terrible idea as a defensive tool that can really only be made useful for the typical person by adding something like a laser on them. Even in my hands, a "shockwave" takes twice as long to get on target and use as a properly stocked shotgun used from the shoulder.

If we are talking close quarters use of a shotgun, short stocking is usually a superior method and when used with the proper technique isn't any more or less reliable than use of the gun on the shoulder.

If we are talking about diminished capacity use of the gun a la Special Agent Mireles in the Miami fight, attempting use from the hip is going to be less effective than getting whatever shoulder still works behind the gun.

The inertia recoil system depends on a difference in movement between the bolt assembly and the whole gun. From a purely functional perspective, the inertia guns have a happy zone where they function reliably. That happy zone depends on a certain amount of recoil taking place to allow the mechanism to work properly. This means that someone like Rob Haught finds inertia-based semi-autos useless because his recoil mitigation is so powerful that he actually chokes the gun by not letting it move enough to operate. I don't find many people who have the same problem because they aren't as strong or skilled at the technique as Rob Haught.

Conversely, if you allow the whole gun to move too much, it will rob the bolt of the energy needed to complete the ejection and feeding cycle.

If I had to venture an educated guess, I'd say that trying to run an inertia based gun "from the hip" with low recoil ammunition is a good way to induce stoppages. My recommendation would be to eschew using the gun "from the hip" because it's generally a poor methodology for effective use of the gun.

If you depend on the gun for self defense, it is a good idea to explore function with low recoil shells and what conditions are required to make it run reliably...but I'd consider it's ability to function in "hip shooting" to be ranked somewhere below whether or not I like the color in terms of importance to me. YMMV.FWIW I saw Rob run an 870 and a Benelli in a class back to back. In his hands, and my untrained eye, I don't think the Benelli was much faster. Back then he made a comment that only movie stars and something else[emoji23] fired a shotgun from the hip. This was around 2000 or so.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[kjr_29]

No updates really, it runs like a champ. Pretty pleased with mine until I saw that MLOK ha sugars above, then jealousy struck.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

*hand guard


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[4given]

I'm flattered you guys think so.

The specific answer here is that without testing your specific gun with the specific ammo in question that way, you won't know for sure.

The trainer's answer here would be that what is commonly referred to as "hip shooting" with a firearm isn't really a useful methodology. Whether discussing a pistol or a long gun, use of the gun "from the hip" doesn't allow visual verification of where, exactly, the projectile(s) are going. Under ideal range conditions where the shooter and target are static, the distance is known, and the shooter can pick his moment it is possible to make hits.

Stuff like this:


https://youtu.be/et5FHMwB3gY

...has proven ineffectual at teaching a typical person how to prevail in a gunfight. From a teaching perspective, we don't want people trying to use shotguns like that. The various "shockwave" style guns on the market are a terrible idea as a defensive tool that can really only be made useful for the typical person by adding something like a laser on them. Even in my hands, a "shockwave" takes twice as long to get on target and use as a properly stocked shotgun used from the shoulder.

If we are talking close quarters use of a shotgun, short stocking is usually a superior method and when used with the proper technique isn't any more or less reliable than use of the gun on the shoulder.

If we are talking about diminished capacity use of the gun a la Special Agent Mireles in the Miami fight, attempting use from the hip is going to be less effective than getting whatever shoulder still works behind the gun.

The inertia recoil system depends on a difference in movement between the bolt assembly and the whole gun. From a purely functional perspective, the inertia guns have a happy zone where they function reliably. That happy zone depends on a certain amount of recoil taking place to allow the mechanism to work properly. This means that someone like Rob Haught finds inertia-based semi-autos useless because his recoil mitigation is so powerful that he actually chokes the gun by not letting it move enough to operate. I don't find many people who have the same problem because they aren't as strong or skilled at the technique as Rob Haught.

Conversely, if you allow the whole gun to move too much, it will rob the bolt of the energy needed to complete the ejection and feeding cycle.

If I had to venture an educated guess, I'd say that trying to run an inertia based gun "from the hip" with low recoil ammunition is a good way to induce stoppages. My recommendation would be to eschew using the gun "from the hip" because it's generally a poor methodology for effective use of the gun.

If you depend on the gun for self defense, it is a good idea to explore function with low recoil shells and what conditions are required to make it run reliably...but I'd consider it's ability to function in "hip shooting" to be ranked somewhere below whether or not I like the color in terms of importance to me. YMMV.


I'm flattered that you took the time to answer my questions in such a thoughtful and comprehensive way. I really appreciate it.

I understand what you are saying. I never thought for a moment that shooting from the hip would be preferred practice. However, I am guilty of overthinking all this. I imagined there could be scenarios where I may be in compromised situation where you HAD to shoot from a sub-optimal position and if so, would my shotgun cycle? I've tripped, fallen need to fire and can't get the weapon shouldered & etc. Too far out in the weeds it seems

BTW, I have now tested low recoil ammo (target loads and Federal 133LE 00) "from the hip" and none of it cycles reliably. I shot some Hornady Critical Defense from the hip and it cycled fine but I didn't shoot enough of to really prove anything. However the low recoil stuff works great when fired from the shoulder! 250 rounds so far with no failures.

[DDTSGM]

4given -

There are several positions that I would check beyond hip:

1) Stock tucked underarm with the firing hand as far back as possible - essentially with your thumb touching your chest. Try it at different angles. This is one way to 'shorten' the shotgun in tight quarters and also as an emergency close range mount;

2) Turn sideways and position the shotgun across your chest, muzzle down range, in this position the shotgun stock should be unsupported with your firing hand holding the stock by the pistol grip and the stock running outside your forearm. This replicates shortening the shotgun to clear a tight corner AND firing across the body from a supine position. For a right handed shooter the ejection port should be up/away from the chest, but all corners aren't right handed and there is no guarantee that you will end up supine positioned for a strong-side shot so do it support side also. A lefty needs to know how much 'roll' to give the shotgun in order to ensure ejection.

3) Do the above with the toe of the stock mounted off the shoulder and on the upper arm, above the bicep in the armpit (poor description, I know).

Here is what I know about how to hold shotguns:

I was taught the push the forearm forward while pulling the stock into the shoulder at a Smith & Wesson police shotgun instructor course in the mid-80's. Wow! the light switched on, give me them slugs and buck. The S&W guys said they had been taught by John Satterwhite. We immediately adopted the push-pull into our shotgun training.

Subsequently, I attended a shotgun instructor course at the H&K ITD, and was introduced to the HK/Benelli M1 Super 90. I found that push-pull worked with the M1. At the time there was a myth that you didn't want to mount a sidesaddle on an M1 because it wouldn't run with light or reduced loads. Couldn't prove it by me, I don't recall ever malfunctioning an M1 or Rem 11-87 (gas operated but with a rep for not reliably cycling light rounds with short barrel).

Bottom line is firmly holding the shotgun using push-pull limits the shotgun's movement enough to allow reliable function as well as reduce recoil.

[4given]

4given -

There are several positions that I would check beyond hip:

1) Stock tucked underarm with the firing hand as far back as possible - essentially with your thumb touching your chest. Try it at different angles. This is one way to 'shorten' the shotgun in tight quarters and also as an emergency close range mount;

2) Turn sideways and position the shotgun across your chest, muzzle down range, in this position the shotgun stock should be unsupported with your firing hand holding the stock by the pistol grip and the stock running outside your forearm. This replicates shortening the shotgun to clear a tight corner AND firing across the body from a supine position. For a right handed shooter the ejection port should be up/away from the chest, but all corners aren't right handed and there is no guarantee that you will end up supine positioned for a strong-side shot so do it support side also. A lefty needs to know how much 'roll' to give the shotgun in order to ensure ejection.

3) Do the above with the toe of the stock mounted off the shoulder and on the upper arm, above the bicep in the armpit (poor description, I know).

Here is what I know about how to hold shotguns:

I was taught the push the forearm forward while pulling the stock into the shoulder at a Smith & Wesson police shotgun instructor course in the mid-80's. Wow! the light switched on, give me them slugs and buck. The S&W guys said they had been taught by John Satterwhite. We immediately adopted the push-pull into our shotgun training.

Subsequently, I attended a shotgun instructor course at the H&K ITD, and was introduced to the HK/Benelli M1 Super 90. I found that push-pull worked with the M1. At the time there was a myth that you didn't want to mount a sidesaddle on an M1 because it wouldn't run with light or reduced loads. Couldn't prove it by me, I don't recall ever malfunctioning an M1 or Rem 11-87 (gas operated but with a rep for not reliably cycling light rounds with short barrel).

Bottom line is firmly holding the shotgun using push-pull limits the shotgun's movement enough to allow reliable function as well as reduce recoil.

Thank you so much for the sage advice. I'll give those positions a try with target loads and see what happens. Also thanks for explaining the push - pull method. I'm looking forward to trying it!

[SiperTed]

The innertube strips are working really well so far. The mount did not budge at all.

I may try the lighter recoil spring if they ever get them back in stock and fire a bunch of light target loads from the hip and see if they cycle properly. I guess that would tell the story.

Did you ever try the lighter recoil spring? I was having problems with my Stoeger m3000 Freedom cycling and so I got the Moa Precision a heavy bolt system with the lighter coil spring and I'm able to cycle lighter loads now. So that's good news

However, my only concern is if I run more powerful loads with the heavy bolt system and lighter recoil spring will that damage my gun now eventually since the original stock recoil spring was so much tighter and could absorb more of the recoil

I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on that. Of course, I may be overthinking this to but I want to be able to run lighter loads and heavier loads at the same time without having to change the recoil spring out every other week. I don't want to damage my gun either if I'm running heavier loads with the lighter recoil spring.

[4given]

Did you ever try the lighter recoil spring? I was having problems with my Stoeger m3000 Freedom cycling and so I got the Moa Precision a heavy bolt system with the lighter coil spring and I'm able to cycle lighter loads now. So that's good news

However, my only concern is if I run more powerful loads with the heavy bolt system and lighter recoil spring will that damage my gun now eventually since the original stock recoil spring was so much tighter and could absorb more of the recoil

I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on that. Of course, I may be overthinking this to but I want to be able to run lighter loads and heavier loads at the same time without having to change the recoil spring out every other week. I don't want to damage my gun either if I'm running heavier loads with the lighter recoil spring.

I have not tried the lighter springs. They have been out of stock so I have just been waiting for them to get some more.

[4given]

Did you ever try the lighter recoil spring? I was having problems with my Stoeger m3000 Freedom cycling and so I got the Moa Precision a heavy bolt system with the lighter coil spring and I'm able to cycle lighter loads now. So that's good news

However, my only concern is if I run more powerful loads with the heavy bolt system and lighter recoil spring will that damage my gun now eventually since the original stock recoil spring was so much tighter and could absorb more of the recoil

I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on that. Of course, I may be overthinking this to but I want to be able to run lighter loads and heavier loads at the same time without having to change the recoil spring out every other week. I don't want to damage my gun either if I'm running heavier loads with the lighter recoil spring.

The reduced rate recoil spring is now available at MOA. I ordered one today to try. https://moaprecisionllc.com/product/new-reduced-rate-recoil-spring-for-light-loads/

[awp_101]

The reduced rate recoil spring is now available at MOA. I ordered one today to try. https://moaprecisionllc.com/product/new-reduced-rate-recoil-spring-for-light-loads/

Anything new to report?

[4given]

Anything new to report?


Yep! I installed it and ran 50 rounds of light target rounds through it without any failures.

[awp_101]

Yep! I installed it and ran 50 rounds of light target rounds through it without any failures.

Thanks! Once I get my back up “good rifle” situated, I may have to go down this road.

[Lon]

I found 3 of these in stock at our local Field and Stream. There are now 2 available for purchase. They will ship. $599.99 plus whatever shipping costs, etc. Here’s the contact info for the store. You’re welcome.

80821

[Lon]

The one that followed me home.

80848

[Lon]

Shot 20 heavy buckshot loads through it w no issues. I know one thing that’s getting changed - the recoil pad. The stock one is hard as a rock. No give whatsoever. Limbsaver ordered.

[4given]

Yep the limbsaver really helped on mine! What else are you going to do to yours?

[Lon]

Yep the limbsaver really helped on mine! What else are you going to do to yours?

So far I’m gonna chop the stock down and add the limbsaver. Got an MOA spring on the way. Still trying to find a mag clamp, though.

[Lon]

Oh yeah, I’m gonna add a Noveske flush for QD cup to the stock.

[4given]

So far I’m gonna chop the stock down and add the limbsaver. Got an MOA spring on the way. Still trying to find a mag clamp, though.

Let me know how your stock chop works out. I might shorten mine a bit. too Your turn to be Guinee Pig! LOL

[Lon]

Let me know how your stock chop works out. I might shorten mine a bit. too Your turn to be Guinee Pig! LOL

The limbsaver came in today so I’ll try to fulfill my Guinea pig role this weekend. 🤣

[Lon]

No use waiting until the weekend when the wife goes to bed early. If you decide to chop yours down, make sure you buy the limbsaver pad specifically designed for custom fit. I bought one of the pre-fit pads and trimmed it down. I think it would have been cleaner if I had used the other pad. But I’m a function over beauty type guy anyway. Went from over 14.5” LOP to right at 13”.

81158
81160
81161
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[4given]

No use waiting until the weekend when the wife goes to bed early. If you decide to chop yours down, make sure you buy the limbsaver pad specifically designed for custom fit. I bought one of the pre-fit pads and trimmed it down. I think it would have been cleaner if I had used the other pad. But I’m a function over beauty type guy anyway. Went from over 14.5” LOP to right at 13”.



Lookin' good!

[4given]

Lon, was the prefit pad you bought sized for the M3000?

[Lon]

Lon, was the prefit pad you bought sized for the M3000?

Yep.

[Lon]

Lon, was the prefit pad you bought sized for the M3000?

If you want, I can look at limbsaver’s charts, they actually have templates on their chart and I can figure out which of the other fittable pads would be the right size.

[4given]

If you want, I can look at limbsaver’s charts, they actually have templates on their chart and I can figure out which of the other fittable pads would be the right size.

That would be great!

[Lon]

Had a chance to get to the range for a brief visit yesterday. Fortuitously, my reduced weight spring from MOA arrived right before I left the house so I switched it out when I got to the range. MUCH more pleasant to shoot w that and the Limbsaver pad. I shot some 9 pellet FC, some 9 pellet off brand stuff and some bird shot. Cycled it all without a problem with the exception of the first time I ghost loaded it. Subsequent ghost loads worked fine. Some groups w the FC stuff. The groups are hitting high because my sights were off.

81236
81237
81238

And with the other 9 pellet load.
81239

[Lon]

That would be great!

So here’s some pics of the section of the stock I cut off compared to the Limbsaver chart.

Grind to fit pad
81345
81346

As you can see, it doesn’t look like the screw holes in the pad will match up to where the holes will be on the stock.

Pad specifically for the 3000
81347
81348

With that in mind, I’m not sure what to tell ya. Maybe order the grind to fit and see if there’s any way you can get the screws to line up. If not, send it back and get the 3000 specific one.

[Lon]

On a more positive note, it appears as if the Magpul forward sling mount works.
81349
81350
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[4given]

So here’s some pics of the section of the stock I cut off compared to the Limbsaver chart.

Grind to fit pad
81345
81346

As you can see, it doesn’t look like the screw holes in the pad will match up to where the holes will be on the stock.

Pad specifically for the 3000
81347
81348

With that in mind, I’m not sure what to tell ya. Maybe order the grind to fit and see if there’s any way you can get the screws to line up. If not, send it back and get the 3000 specific one.

Thanks for checking that out for me. Looks like there are no real good options. I might be able to cut it down some and still use my slip on pad. It is the small one. Small fits stocks measuring 4-1/2 x 1-1/2 inches to 4-13/16 x 1-5/8 inches

[4given]

Lon what does yours measure now that it is cut?

[Lon]

Lon what does yours measure now that it is cut?

The LOP? Or the overall length? LOP is right at 13”. Or the dimensions of the stock?

[4given]

The LOP? Or the overall length? LOP is right at 13”. Or the dimensions of the stock?

The dimensions of the end of the of the buttstock. Curious to see if my slip on pad would fit if I cut mine down to the same length as yours.

[Lon]

The dimensions of the end of the of the buttstock. Curious to see if my slip on pad would fit if I cut mine down to the same length as yours.

About 1.5”x4.5”

81381
81382

[4given]

About 1.5”x4.5”

81381
81382

My slip on fits stocks measuring 4-1/2 x 1-1/2 inches to 4-13/16 x 1-5/8 inches so it should work.

[Lon]

Messed around with my 3000 this afternoon. Added an MOA jumbo safety and a small section of rail for a light. There will eventually be a tape switch added, if you’re wondering why the light is where it’s at.

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[Lon]

Anyone in the DFW area want one? FTF deal on a pistol grip version for $550 here:https://www.ar15.com/forums/Equipment-Exchange/WTS-Stoeger-M3000-Freedom-18-5-12-GAUGE-Semi-Auto-Inertia-Driven-Tactical-Shotgun-New-550-FTF-D-FW/162-2203466/

I have no knowledge or affiliation w the seller. Just seemed like a good deal.

[4given]

Messed around with my 3000 this afternoon. Added an MOA jumbo safety and a small section of rail for a light. There will eventually be a tape switch added, if you’re wondering why the light is where it’s at.

81394
81395
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I like the way you mounted the rail on your stock! Was that something you got from MOA?

[Lon]

I like the way you mounted the rail on your stock! Was that something you got from MOA?

Got that from my “unused rail parts” drawer of the workbench. Came from a keymod rail I bought a while back. I just drilled 2 holes and threaded it directly to polymer. I’m gonna go back and JB weld it later on.

[Lon]

Couldn’t pass up the 62 degree weather in December. Even if I got wet. Ran a bunch more ammo through this. It ate anything and everything that was high brass, even an old paper hulled slug. I had all sorts of low brass that I ran through it. Loaded it up totally random from a dump pouch. Had 3 or 4 that didn’t feed, but it wasn’t surprising since the crimps were jacked up.

81427

[Mr_Frankl]

Has anyone had any reliability issues when utilizing the push/pull technique? My stoeger chokes every time I push/pull, runs fine when I don't.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[Lon]

Has anyone had any reliability issues when utilizing the push/pull technique? My stoeger chokes every time I push/pull, runs fine when I don't.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

I haven’t. But I’ve only got about a hundred rounds through it so far.

[Lon]

Added a Noveske flush fit QD mount.

81648
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81650

[Lon]

Got a Vortex Crossfire for Christmas.

81874

Shotgun -$650
Limbsaver -$45
Noveske QD -$20
Magpul mag clamp -$27
Magpul sling -$30
Esstac card -$15
Crossfire -$90
Safety -$28
Total -$905

[P.E. Kelley]

https://youtu.be/4IOvu_eq6uY

[awp_101]

Anyone in the DFW area want one? FTF deal on a pistol grip version for $550 here:https://www.ar15.com/forums/Equipment-Exchange/WTS-Stoeger-M3000-Freedom-18-5-12-GAUGE-Semi-Auto-Inertia-Driven-Tactical-Shotgun-New-550-FTF-D-FW/162-2203466/

I have no knowledge or affiliation w the seller. Just seemed like a good deal.
I handled one of these today in a local shop. Is it the same as the Freedom Series the OP has, just with a pistol grip? If so, I suppose it would take the same stock adapter to run a Magpul SGA?

[Lon]

I handled one of these today in a local shop. Is it the same as the Freedom Series the OP has, just with a pistol grip? If so, I suppose it would take the same stock adapter to run a Magpul SGA?

Yes. Same gun, just different stock.

[awp_101]

Thanks, that's good to know!

[willie]

I bought the 3000 18 inch plain barrel model and followed factory directions to run heavy recoiling rounds through it to break in the weapon. I allowed my 14 year old young friend to shoot it at my expense, and he had fun burning up ammo. Now the shotgun shows reliable function with Federal low recoil buckshot. Recoil is brutal with regular buckshot. 3 inch magnum buckshot is terrible indeed. I'm sorry to report that felt recoil in this weapon is greater than it would be in an 870 of the same weight. I attribute this anomaly to the action mechanism located in front of the weapon slamming rearward. In the Benelli this mechanism has less mass and is located in the butt stock.

[Lon]

KYGUNCO has these back in stock. The quote I got was $541 w free shipping.

https://www.kygunco.com/product/stoeger-31890fs-model-3000-defense-freedom-series

[SiperTed]

KYGUNCO has these back in stock. The quote I got was $541 w free shipping.

https://www.kygunco.com/product/stoeger-31890fs-model-3000-defense-freedom-series


I paid $629 for mine back in January of 2021 so it seems like you got a good price!

[Lon]

Added the MOA Precision adapter and a Magpul SGA. 12.5” LOP.

88389

88390

All I need to do is get a remote switch for one of my flashlights and I’ll be done with this project.

[Lon]

Interesting data point regarding the SGA/Limbsaver pad combo on this - it ran fine w slugs and heavy dram target loads, but had issues w FFC 8 pellet. It would eject the fired shell, but would not reliably chamber the next. The bolt didn’t go back enough to grab the next one and it was just sitting on the lifter. Im going to put the factory spring back in it and see if that fixes things. This has the MOA reduced power spring installed.

This wasn’t just w me. I had another shooter run it as well. Same result.

[Lon]

One for sale for $425 on AR15.com. I have no connection to owner/seller.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Equipment-Exchange/FS-Stoeger-M3000-7-1-12ga-semi-low-price/162-2254719/

[Lon]

Figured out the problem w my shotgun. I tightened the Magpul sling swivel down tight enough to pinch the follower/spring. Once I took the sling adapter off it worked great. So back to the drawing board for a sling option.

[Lon]

Just another data point. Weird as hell. With the lightened recoil spring from MOA precision, this thing will run the hell out of 3 1/4 Dram 7.5 field loads, LE127RS slugs, Federal Deep Penetrator slugs and some cheap ass Privi Star and Stripes 9 pellet buck. But it won’t run the 8 or 9 pellet FC loads worth a shit. Put the factory spring back in and it won’t run anything well. Weird. I ordered a couple other factory recoil springs. May put one of them in and try it again.

[willie]

Just another data point. Weird as hell. With the lightened recoil spring from MOA precision, this thing will run the hell out of 3 1/4 Dram 7.5 field loads, LE127RS slugs, Federal Deep Penetrator slugs and some cheap ass Privi Star and Stripes 9 pellet buck. But it won’t run the 8 or 9 pellet FC loads worth a shit. Put the factory spring back in and it won’t run anything well. Weird. I ordered a couple other factory recoil springs. May put one of them in and try it again.

I bought a 3000 and followed factory break in suggestions. My young friend ran 100 rounds of heavy loads through the gun. We cleaned it and proceeded to shoot "everything" through it. The 3000 feeds low recoil Federal buckshot without a hitch. In this gun I removed the extractor before firing it and found burrs where the extractor fits. I removed burrs. Also I cleaned the bolt and put heavy grease on the spring therein that drives this mechanism.

Unlike some vendors Stoeger has helpful customer service folks. I would call them if my gun had issues. My guess is that the shotgun above has a problem within the trigger group that impedes the lifter. If not that, the problem may be the feed mechanism allowing shells to enter onto the lifter. Most likely burrs are the culprit.

[4given]

Just another data point. Weird as hell. With the lightened recoil spring from MOA precision, this thing will run the hell out of 3 1/4 Dram 7.5 field loads, LE127RS slugs, Federal Deep Penetrator slugs and some cheap ass Privi Star and Stripes 9 pellet buck. But it won’t run the 8 or 9 pellet FC loads worth a shit. Put the factory spring back in and it won’t run anything well. Weird. I ordered a couple other factory recoil springs. May put one of them in and try it again.

Strange. So far, mine is running fine with everything I put through it. I am running the MOA light spring.

[SiperTed]

Strange. So far, mine is running fine with everything I put through it. I am running the MOA light spring.

Once I put the MOA Light Spring in I had no problems either. Although, I haven't shot anything less than 1200 FPS so far which, previously, I had a problem with 1200 FPS.

[Lon]

Once I put the MOA Light Spring in I had no problems either. Although, I haven't shot anything less than 1200 FPS so far which, previously, I had a problem with 1200 FPS.

That’s the kinda stuff I’m having issues with. The FC LE132 and LE133 is running under 1200fps. I’m gonna try to scrounge up some LE127 and see if that runs better. It’s running @1325

[SiperTed]

That’s the kinda stuff I’m having issues with. The FC LE132 and LE133 is running under 1200fps. I’m gonna try to scrounge up some LE127 and see if that runs better. It’s running @1325

I have a bunch of the LE127 and it worked fine with the stock spring and the MOA light spring.

My son and I are going to the range tomorrow and testing a bunch of different light rounds. The reason I bought the light spring was because, like you, I was having issues with 1200FPS and lighter loads. I had tested a bunch of light loads previously but lost the sheet that I wrote everything down on so now I'm out to try it again because I can't remember it all by memory. I'm almost positive that with the stock spring all of the 1200FPS or less loads I was having issues with. After I installed the MOA light spring all of them worked.

Here is what I'll be testing tomorrow:


Winchester Game & Target 020892020122 2.75" #8 1200
Noble 9 Pellet 837913000861 2.75" #00 1200
Federal 8 Pellet (LE133 00) 029465023157 2.75" #00 1145
S&B 754908533183 2.75" #00 1200
Fiochi 762344850078 3.00" #4 1200


Here is what I know works with stock and with MOA light spring:


Rio 9 Pellet 8435101618700 2.75" #00 1345
Hornady Critical Defense 090255862409 2.75" #00 1600
Mili 9 Pellet 860005040001 2.75" #00 1350
Federal 9 Pellet (LE127 00) 029465025076 2.75" #00 1325
Federal Slug 029465009946 2.75" Slug 1520
Winchester Super X 020892015456 3.00" #4 1400

I'll report back tomorrow and let you know How the lighter loads worked.

[Lon]

Once I put the MOA Light Spring in I had no problems either. Although, I haven't shot anything less than 1200 FPS so far which, previously, I had a problem with 1200 FPS.

Weird. I got a notice about the quote and response you sent about the rounds you’ll be testing, but it doesn’t show up when I view the thread.

Anyway, I’ll be interested to see your results. I ordered some LE12700. I’ll report back when I get it and shoot some.

Not really surprised by the issues w light loads. Had the same issues w an M1S90 back in my early 3 gun days. Had to send it off to have the bolt lightened to get it to run w light loads reliably.

[SiperTed]

Weird. I got a notice about the quote and response you sent about the rounds you’ll be testing, but it doesn’t show up when I view the thread.

Anyway, I’ll be interested to see your results. I ordered some LE12700. I’ll report back when I get it and shoot some.

Not really surprised by the issues w light loads. Had the same issues w an M1S90 back in my early 3 gun days. Had to send it off to have the bolt lightened to get it to run w light loads reliably.

Yeah, this is really weird. I'm not sure why my post did not show up. When I posted it it said it had to be approved by a forum moderator first and it's still not there. Not sure what is going on.

[SiperTed]

Weird. I got a notice about the quote and response you sent about the rounds you’ll be testing, but it doesn’t show up when I view the thread.

Anyway, I’ll be interested to see your results. I ordered some LE12700. I’ll report back when I get it and shoot some.

Not really surprised by the issues w light loads. Had the same issues w an M1S90 back in my early 3 gun days. Had to send it off to have the bolt lightened to get it to run w light loads reliably.

Hey Lon!

Sorry for the delay. I got sidetracked last week and didn't get to the range until today.

Okay, here are my results:



Shell
UPC
Size
Shot
FPS
Good
Bad
Notes


Winchester Game & Target
020892020122
2.75"
8
1200

X
Lots of Stovepipes and Failure to feed next round.


Noble 9 Pellet
837913000861
2.75"
00
1200
X




Rio 9 Pellet
8435101618700
2.75"
00
1345
X




Hornady Critical Defense 8 Pellet
090255862409
2.75"
00
1600
X




Mili 9 Pellet
860005040001
2.75"
00
1350
X




Federal 8 Pellet (LE133 00)
029465023157
2.75"
00
1145

X
Lots of Stovepipes and Failure to feed next round.


Federal 9 Pellet (LE127 00)
029465025076
2.75"
00
1325
X




Federal Top Gun
029465025922
2.75"
8
1180

X
Lots of Stovepipes and Failure to feed next round.


Federal Slug
029465009946
2.75"
Slug
1520
X





Keep in mind that I have the MOA Reduced Rate Recoil Spring (https://moaprecisionllc.com/product/new-reduced-rate-recoil-spring-for-light-loads/) installed which is supposed to make the Stoeger operate light loads (1145 FPS or greater) and as you can see above I couldn't fire ANY of the 1145 or 1180 FPS loads reliably and the 1200 FPS were a mixed bag. I'm not sure why the Noble 1200 FPS worked but the other 1200 FPS #8 shot didn't. I do know that with the stock spring that I couldn't even fire ANY 1200 FPS reliably so the fact that the Noble 00 Buck worked like a champ is a plus but I guess I'm a bit disappointed since that is what I bought the light spring for - to operate these even lower than 1200 FPS low recoil loads.

Anyone else having issues firing 1200 FPS or lighter loads WITH the MOA light spring?

For a comparison, I also brought my RIA VR80 to the range and that is gas operated, not inertia driven like my Stoeger, and I had ZERO issues with any of the above rounds. They all fired smooth like butter in the VR80.

[EzGoingKev]

If anyone is interested in a shorter youth stock for these I have one. PM me.

[Lon]

Hey Lon!

Sorry for the delay. I got sidetracked last week and didn't get to the range until today.

Okay, here are my results:



Shell
UPC
Size
Shot
FPS
Good
Bad
Notes


Winchester Game & Target
020892020122
2.75"
8
1200

X
Lots of Stovepipes and Failure to feed next round.


Noble 9 Pellet
837913000861
2.75"
00
1200
X




Rio 9 Pellet
8435101618700
2.75"
00
1345
X




Hornady Critical Defense 8 Pellet
090255862409
2.75"
00
1600
X




Mili 9 Pellet
860005040001
2.75"
00
1350
X




Federal 8 Pellet (LE133 00)
029465023157
2.75"
00
1145

X
Lots of Stovepipes and Failure to feed next round.


Federal 9 Pellet (LE127 00)
029465025076
2.75"
00
1325
X




Federal Top Gun
029465025922
2.75"
8
1180

X
Lots of Stovepipes and Failure to feed next round.


Federal Slug
029465009946
2.75"
Slug
1520
X





Keep in mind that I have the MOA Reduced Rate Recoil Spring (https://moaprecisionllc.com/product/new-reduced-rate-recoil-spring-for-light-loads/) installed which is supposed to make the Stoeger operate light loads (1145 FPS or greater) and as you can see above I couldn't fire ANY of the 1145 or 1180 FPS loads reliably and the 1200 FPS were a mixed bag. I'm not sure why the Noble 1200 FPS worked but the other 1200 FPS #8 shot didn't. I do know that with the stock spring that I couldn't even fire ANY 1200 FPS reliably so the fact that the Noble 00 Buck worked like a champ is a plus but I guess I'm a bit disappointed since that is what I bought the light spring for - to operate these even lower than 1200 FPS low recoil loads.

Anyone else having issues firing 1200 FPS or lighter loads WITH the MOA light spring?

For a comparison, I also brought my RIA VR80 to the range and that is gas operated, not inertia driven like my Stoeger, and I had ZERO issues with any of the above rounds. They all fired smooth like butter in the VR80.

Thanks for that. I’m gonna stick with loads over 1200fps and if it runs those, I’ll call it good. My LE12700 came in so I’ll run some of that through it to make sure it runs with it, but I’m pretty confident it will.

[SiperTed]

Thanks for that. I’m gonna stick with loads over 1200fps and if it runs those, I’ll call it good. My LE12700 came in so I’ll run some of that through it to make sure it runs with it, but I’m pretty confident it will.


Yeah, that ran great for me so I'm 100% positive you'll have no issues with that.

[SiperTed]

Thanks for that. I’m gonna stick with loads over 1200fps and if it runs those, I’ll call it good. My LE12700 came in so I’ll run some of that through it to make sure it runs with it, but I’m pretty confident it will.

So I did a little research and it appears that the 1200 FPS Winchester has 1 1/8oz (18/16) and the Noble 00 Buck has 1 3/16oz (19/16) load ounces. So that extra +1 (18 vs 19) was enough for the Stoeger to cycle the Noble reliably with the MOA spring. That doesn't appear to be much when comparing 18/16 over 19/16 but apparently it is. Interesting. I think I'm going to track down some other 1200 FPS with load ounces > 1 1/8 and see if those work as well.

I'm betting that any load ounces greater than 1 1/8 will work (1 1/4, 1 3/8, 1 1/2, 1 3/16 and 1 7/16).

UPDATE: I'm not sure I'm looking at this correctly. I think I'm confused by load ounces and DRAM. Back to more research!

[Lon]

So I did a little research and it appears that the 1200 FPS Winchester has 1 1/8oz (18/16) and the Noble 00 Buck has 1 3/16oz (19/16) load ounces. So that extra +1 (18 vs 19) was enough for the Stoeger to cycle the Noble reliably with the MOA spring. That doesn't appear to be much when comparing 18/16 over 19/16 but apparently it is. Interesting. I think I'm going to track down some other 1200 FPS with load ounces > 1 1/8 and see if those work as well.

I'm betting that any load ounces greater than 1 1/8 will work (1 1/4, 1 3/8, 1 1/2, 1 3/16 and 1 7/16).

UPDATE: I'm not sure I'm looking at this correctly. I think I'm confused by load ounces and DRAM. Back to more research!

The loads I normally run are 1 1/8oz, 3 1/4 dram 7.5 shot. Runs great w them.

[SiperTed]

The loads I normally run are 1 1/8oz, 3 1/4 dram 7.5 shot. Runs great w them.

Interesting. Yeah, the Winchester's above in my chart were 1 1/8oz, 3 dram, 8 shot and they didn't work at all. I wonder if I have to stay above 3 dram - like your 7.5 shot at 3 1/4 dram? Although, it seems like some manufacturer's don't list the dram equivalent so it may be hard to tell.

Have you shot ANY 3 dram or lower and had the same issues I'm having?

[Lon]

Interesting. Yeah, the Winchester's above in my chart were 1 1/8oz, 3 dram, 8 shot and they didn't work at all. I wonder if I have to stay above 3 dram - like your 7.5 shot at 3 1/4 dram? Although, it seems like some manufacturer's don't list the dram equivalent so it may be hard to tell.

Have you shot ANY 3 dram or lower and had the same issues I'm having?

I have not. I’ve always bought the 3 1/4 dram stuff. It’s been the most reliable in all my 3 gun semi-autos:
M1S90
Saiga
REM 1100 Competition
Adkal MKA1919

And since I traded my Stoeger in on a 1301 today, I won’t have a chance to test any more loads. Found a pretty good deal I didn’t want to pass up.

[jhestness]

I am pleased with my Stoeger but did make some improvements (it is my CA-legal long gun when I go down there on protection details). In its stock form it much prefers full velocity buckshot (00 at 1350+ versus tactical 00 at 1150). When firing tactical buckshot the action was noticeably slower over the standard velocity buckshot and I would get a failure to extract once every 8 shots. 3 dram birdshot seemed to cycle a bit better versus other birdshot. I shopped at MOA Precision and ended up getting their Magpul SGA adapter, reduced recoil spring and heavy bolt system. It now fires everything I feed it.

I installed a Briley Mlok rail, a GG&G oversized charging handle, a Surefire 340C light, and a Holosun 510C. Granted this was a significant investment on my part but Benellis and 1301Ts weren’t available or were cost prohibitive. I feel very well equipped with the Stoeger when I can’t bring my DD SBR along for the ride.


What rail covers are those?

[CarlK]

I think they were Bravo Company (the snap fit ones). I don’t remember who made the bolt-on ones (I ended up trading the Stoeger for a 1301T)

[SiperTed]

I think they were Bravo Company (the snap fit ones). I don’t remember who made the bolt-on ones (I ended up trading the Stoeger for a 1301T)

Yep, I got the Bravo Company ones for my Stoeger too.

Looking to pick up that new Mossberg 940 Pro Tactical also.

[awp_101]

Any updates from our current owners?

[awp_101]

So I did a thing last weekend...

On my way home from the indoor range I stopped by another LGS. The week before I'd noticed a pistol grip M3K listed in the "used" section of their website. When I looked a few days later it wasn't listed so I figured it had already sold. Well, it hadn't. Despite the ridiculously long LOP I was intrigued. I was told it had been traded in by one of their RSOs who'd had some non-specific "upgrades" done on it. The price was right so I bought the shotgun, not the story. That night I ordered the S&J Hardware stock adapter (MOA was OOS) and an SGA stock. Got a few minutes this afternoon and did the swap:

104399

What do we like for red dots on shotguns, RMR-style or tube style? Or is it just personal preference?

The indoor range I belong to only allows slugs so I'll have to check if the other range will let me use buckshot or bird shot just so I can get a feel for it. If they don't, I'll have to make the haul to the outdoor range eventually™.


Excuse me, may I have a few moments of your time tell you about the Gospel of the Gauge?

[willie]

I own the plain barrel bead sight M3000. Function has been flawless. Mine works with low recoil Federal buck. It has brutal recoil with regular ammo. Unlike Benelli's having the action spring in the stock, these shotguns have a spring around the mag tube. This spring operates action bars which contribute to fierce recoil when slammed to the rear.