PVS14: Passive Aiming Choices

[TicTacticalTimmy]

I'm going to be setting up my rifle(s) to be useful for passive aiming with a PVS14, and wanted to get some opinions on the best possible setup.

Initially my thought was to go with the Unity Tactical FAST mount for my Holosun 503G with the Unity FTC magnifier mount behind it for enhanced capability in the daytime. As I thought more about it I came up with a few downsides:

1. Muscle memory: with the height over bore about .8" above that of the LPVO on my "primary" rifle, the rifle I put the unity setup on will have slightly different mechanics when rapidly mounting the weapon, and I worry my performance will fall behind a bit with one or the other rifle depending on which I practice with more.
2. Cost: about $400 for both the mounts plus $250 for the cheapest Aimpoint magnifier. With the magnifier it will still be inferior to an LPVO or really any magnified scope for more precise work. I'm fine spending this much or more if the setup is ideal, but that got me thinking about other options.

As an alternative, I could keep the LPVO and "piggyback" my 503G or the 407GR I have lying around. I was looking specifically at the Reptilia mount which replaces the top ring of a Geissele scope mount.

I could then use the piggybacked red dot for all rapid high probability type shooting, with the scope underneath being used for more precise work. This would have the advantage of giving me the same setup across all rifles, day or night. The only obvious disadvantages that come to mind are increased weight and decreased operator cool factor.

Is there something I am missing here as to why a piggybacked red dot won't work as well as a high mounted red dot, for either day or night shooting? Is the high "chin weld" position going to decrease my performance in high speed daytime shooting?

[60pilot]

I’m not sure that you absolutely need an ultra high dot for passive shooting with NVGs. Just shooting in the backyard with ANVIS-9s, I found a T1 in a Larue lower 1/3rd mount easy to shoot with passively. Like so easy it made me giggle a little bit. Now this was all standing or kneeling, so maybe more atypical shooting position are where the uber tall mounts really help out.

[HCM]

I'm going to be setting up my rifle(s) to be useful for passive aiming with a PVS14, and wanted to get some opinions on the best possible setup.

Initially my thought was to go with the Unity Tactical FAST mount for my Holosun 503G with the Unity FTC magnifier mount behind it for enhanced capability in the daytime. As I thought more about it I came up with a few downsides:

1. Muscle memory: with the height over bore about .8" above that of the LPVO on my "primary" rifle, the rifle I put the unity setup on will have slightly different mechanics when rapidly mounting the weapon, and I worry my performance will fall behind a bit with one or the other rifle depending on which I practice with more.
2. Cost: about $400 for both the mounts plus $250 for the cheapest Aimpoint magnifier. With the magnifier it will still be inferior to an LPVO or really any magnified scope for more precise work. I'm fine spending this much or more if the setup is ideal, but that got me thinking about other options.

As an alternative, I could keep the LPVO and "piggyback" my 503G or the 407GR I have lying around. I was looking specifically at the Reptilia mount which replaces the top ring of a Geissele scope mount.

I could then use the piggybacked red dot for all rapid high probability type shooting, with the scope underneath being used for more precise work. This would have the advantage of giving me the same setup across all rifles, day or night. The only obvious disadvantages that come to mind are increased weight and decreased operator cool factor.

Is there something I am missing here as to why a piggybacked red dot won't work as well as a high mounted red dot, for either day or night shooting? Is the high "chin weld" position going to decrease my performance in high speed daytime shooting?

In my very limited experience Aimpoint micro type sights are sub optimal for passive aiming with NVG's. This is an area where bigger is better as it allows more light through to be amplified by your NOD. Eotechs and 30mm Tube RDS are better options.

You mentioned a 407G - I've heard of green illumination optics having issues with NODs.

[gringop]

I may be mistaken by what you mean by "passive" aiming.

If you mean using a head mounted PVS14 to look though normally mounted red dots or a LPVO, it's going to be hard to align your eye, the NV and the optic with any kind of normal cheek wield. In addition to the previously mentioned factor of smaller diameter optics blocking light coming into the NV, every lens that is in the path will reduce the amount of light further. A LPVO or a magnifier paired with a red dot is going to be very dark even with supplemental IR light.

I have used a PVS14 mounted behind a forward mounted H2 just for getting a IR laser sighted in, never for actual hunting or night practice. Still, if my choice was only passive aiming, I would go with mounting the PVS14 to the gun and using the biggest diameter red dot I have.

I've gone with using a completely different upper for night work that I can run my thermal on or slick for use with an IR laser and supplemental IR light.


Gringop

[DpdG]

I think there are two different approaches to NV use- NV as a shooting aid (hunting, DMR/sniper, etc...) in which weapon mounted night vision is common, and NV as a navigation/operational aid, where head mounted is basically required.

If talking head mounted, I've had OK success using a micro sized optic on a lower 1/3 mount without magnification for passive aiming, although I primarily use active IR aiming. If I were going to use passive aiming as my primary method, I probably would use one of the higher than 1/3 mounts. As I talk through this, I wonder if there's something to be said for an approach of head mounted NV with no magnification and if magnification is required getting weapon mounted NV. I suspect the light loss when looking through a red dot and flip magnifier might be a bit of a hindrance in low ambient environments.

[theJanitor]

I'm using EXPS3-0 on unity risers (and a T1 on a KAC skyscraper mount) for passive aiming. It's easier for me to use the donut-of-death reticle and the big window of the Eotech.

some other comments here: https://www.instagram.com/p/CQb0iM8LOe6/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

[Clusterfrack]

1) Aiming through the PVS-14 and the RDS with the same eye? Or 2) PVS-14 on the non-shooting eye and superimposing the dot with the shooting eye? I've tried (1), and found it workable but awkward. I've been hearing about (2) but have not had the chance to try it.

JCL? (The FNG)

[JCL]

1) Aiming through the PVS-14 and the RDS with the same eye? Or 2) PVS-14 on the non-shooting eye and superimposing the dot with the shooting eye? I've tried (1), and found it workable but awkward. I've been hearing about (2) but have not had the chance to try it.

JCL? (The FNG)

I'm not convinced that I've found the best ergonomic setup for the red dot (MRO on a lower 1/3 mount), but it definitely blends with the image from the PVS-14 mounted over my dominant left eye (right-handed shooter). Not a fan of the idea of aiming with a device that reveals my location to someone similarly equipped, so it seems worth trying to come up with a workable passive solution.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

To clarify, I was not suggesting using a magnifier between a PVS14 and red dot, the magnifier would be for daytime use.

The issue of a small RDS window never occured to me. I guess thats because when I shoot RDS' I am not really conscious of the edges of the window. Of course with the PVS14 I will effectively be shooting with one eye open, so I can understand how that will be an issue!

I don't own any red dots bigger than a Micro, but if a full size red dot is the way to go I am definitely open to buying one.

I am jumping the gun a bit... my PVS14 will be arriving next week, so I am a total noob. I was hoping to order the best setup to go along with it, but it sounds like there won't be any substitute for a lot of individual experimentation.

Regarding placing the PVS14 over the non shooting eye, I hadn't really thought of that. If that is workable that would actually be ideal, since I am left eye dominant but right handed. I shoot rifles with my right eye and pistols with my left eye, always with my right hand pulling the trigger. With the PVS14 over my left eye I could shoot handguns at night like I normally do, and the cheek weld on my rifle would be the same. Better still, I could forget about the RDS entirely and just use the illuminated 1x setting on my LPVO with the lens cap down.

[60pilot]

I could see the Eotech reticle being a benefit for using under NVGs, but I'm really don't think that you're going to gain anything by going to a 30mm tube. The micro Aimpoint gets all of the ambient light I could ever need.

[Super77]

PVS-14 on the non-shooting eye and superimposing the dot with the shooting eye?



This is the way.

[That Guy]

Is there something I am missing here as to why a piggybacked red dot won't work as well as a high mounted red dot, for either day or night shooting? Is the high "chin weld" position going to decrease my performance in high speed daytime shooting?

I'm much too poor to comment on night vision (other than I'd love to own some but damn it's expensive...) but due to reasons I have a fixed magnification scope with a piggyback red dot on my rifle, so I do have an opinion on the day time stuff.

The main issue with a piggyback dot is that your normal index with the rifle no longer applies. You shoulder the rifle a bit differently looking through the higher optic and you no longer have the contact of the stock on your face to guide the rifle onto the target when presenting the gun. So instead of driving the gun onto the target and your face snapping onto the stock, now you drive the gun onto the target and your face just sort of... hovers there. And hopefully you stop the vertical movement of the muzzle at the appropriate level. Not really a problem for hosing bullets into the lower A zone of a full size target at 7 meters, but the smaller the target the more likely at least my rifle will be not aimed at it when I bring the rifle up. Probably a matter of me needing to practice more, but it's worth noting that this is an issue that will require work.

There's also the thing about increased height over bore. Me, I don't really find it a big deal since I only have the one AR and at close range I'm going to have to aim above my intended point of impact anyway, so it's just a matter of how high should I aim. But if you're a typical American and a typical P-F dude and you have a gazillion AR's and one of them will have a piggyback dot, well, I can see how going back and forth between two different offsets might cause some confusion.

All this is not to say the piggyback red dot is unworkable or anything. I still outshoot some people shooting race gun AR's with my internally stock 6920 when shooting short range drills. But you asked about a chinweld decreasing performance, so I focused on the negative parts of it to give you an idea of issues that you might have to deal with. A piggyback dot will work if you will put in the work, you just have to decide whether the positives outweigh the negatives for you.

[Moshjath]

Earlier this year we did a JRTC rotation where I decided to try out passive aiming. Key to this is that at work we all are issued dual tube white phos NODs, and would be facing a very proficient OPFOR also utilizing NODs. In short, I was a big fan using passive aiming with dual tubes and an Aimpoint Comp M4. OPFOR elements could not tell they were being targeted as easily because they didn’t get lit up with PEQ-15s.

Caveat: if I was using PVS-14’s, this wouldn’t have worked nearly as well and I’d have utilized my PEQ a lot more.

[Whiskey]

I use a CompM4 with a 2.04 inch riser. I have no issue with passive aiming through my PVS14 on my dominant eye. It is faster and easier when I had the stock riser on the Aimpoint. I also have a DBAL D2, but depending on your purpose being able to shoot without a laser is really key.

I don't suggest mounting your PVS 14 to your rifle, and neither do most experts in the field. I would direct you to TNVC, Silent Solutions, and Kinetic Consulting, all on youtube for some further information.