Multiple Biker Riders Run Over in Show Low AZ

[Coyotesfan97]

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/6-critically-injured-after-truck-driver-runs-over-group-of-bicyclists-in-show-low-suspect-shot

SHOW LOW, Ariz. - Seven people have been critically injured after being run over by a truck in Show Low, officials confirmed Saturday morning.

Police say a black Ford truck had hit multiple bicyclists in front of the Horne Auto Collision Center during the city's Bike the Bluff road race.

Officers pursued the suspect to an area near 3rd Drive and Oliver, and the driver was eventually shot behind an ACE Hardware in the area. The suspect, identified only as a 35-year-old white male, was hospitalized in critical but stable condition.

——————

Show Low is a small city in north east AZ. It’s on the route I take if I’m heading east on I40.

This is in the early stages so no motives have been discussed that I’ve heard.

[Duelist]

Show Low is a nice little town. I’ve got relatives who live there, and ancestors who were from there.

[Doc_Glock]

If human bodies did that damage to the roof of the truck that is truly impressive no one died. It looks like he rolled the thing.

[Balisong]

Show Low is a nice little town. I’ve got relatives who live there, and ancestors who were from there.

We drive through Show Low on our way to Greer when we're getting away from everything and I know people with relatives there. Hope all the victims have a speedy recovery.

[Paul D]

The one transported to PHX probably had a head injury requiring neurosurgery services (though Flagstaff does have a level 1 trauma center).

Somehow I think meth was involved. In 2010 a meth head driving a 12 ton truck plowed into a group of motorcyclists waiting at a stop light in Phoenix.

Here's an old list of some of the meth-iest crimes in AZ (Link (https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/10-meth-iest-crimes-allegedly-committed-by-arizona-meth-heads-6629013))

[Balisong]

The one transported to PHX probably had a head injury requiring neurosurgery services (though Flagstaff does have a level 1 trauma center).

Somehow I think meth was involved. In 2010 a meth head driving a 12 ton truck plowed into a group of motorcyclists waiting at a stop light in Phoenix.

Here's an old list of some of the meth-iest crimes in AZ (Link (https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/10-meth-iest-crimes-allegedly-committed-by-arizona-meth-heads-6629013))

I remember that too. Wasn't that at I17 and Carefree, near Ben Avery Shooting range?

[TGS]

This is in the early stages so no motives have been discussed that I’ve heard.

Bicyclists, you say?

I'm willing to put money on a motive. Usually as clear as when a dude with an Arabic name kills a bunch of people.

[frank]

Bicyclists, you say?

I'm willing to put money on a motive. Usually as clear as when a dude with an Arabic name kills a bunch of people.

He hates these cans!

[peterb]

73069
73070

https://www.npr.org/2021/06/19/1008413725/driver-rams-cyclists-in-arizona-race-critically-injuring-6

[olstyn]

Wow, if the victims look anything like the bikes they were riding. :(

[Lon]

Bicyclists, you say?

I'm willing to put money on a motive. Usually as clear as when a dude with an Arabic name kills a bunch of people.

Didn’t see his name anywhere. I’ve seen him described as a 35 YO white male and a 35 YO male, but that’s it.

[TGS]

Didn’t see his name anywhere. I’ve seen him described as a 35 YO white male and a 35 YO male, but that’s it.

Sorry if my wording wasn't clear; I'm referring to the victims being bicyclists, and the tendency for people to feel road rage towards bicyclists being an obvious and common motive in running them over, just as clear as it is for religious extremism to be a common and obvious motive for Muslim males who kill a bunch of people. I'm drawing a comparison, not implying the motive in this incident is religious extremism or that the perpetrator is Muslim.

[Lon]

Sorry if my wording wasn't clear; I'm referring to the victims being bicyclists, and the tendency for people to feel road rage towards bicyclists being an obvious and common motive in running them over, just as clear as it is for religious extremism to be a common and obvious motive for Muslim males who kill a bunch of people. I'm drawing a comparison, not implying the motive in this incident is religious extremism or that the perpetrator is Muslim.

Ok. Gotcha. Totally took that a different way.

[Lex Luthier]

It makes me shudder to think that I might be next. I've got 36 years on a bike as a commuter-type rider, and do my best to not be a dork to other road users. Really, the complete opposite of a Critical Mass-hole.

[revchuck38]

It makes me shudder to think that I might be next. I've got 36 years on a bike as a commuter-type rider, and do my best to not be a dork to other road users. Really, the complete opposite of a Critical Mass-hole.

I went for a ride this morning after having read this. I used to race and it looks like they hit the Master's group...the one I would've been in. Seeing those pieces of bikes was sobering.

[olstyn]

do my best to not be a dork to other road users. Really, the complete opposite of a Critical Mass-hole.

Same. I won't lie and say I've never ever run a stop sign on my bike, but I ALWAYS obey every sign when ANY cars are present, because being predictable = not getting hit, plus of course the non-asshole factor.

As I've said in other threads, I wish cops around here would start aggressively pulling over and ticketing bikers who ride against traffic on the wrong side of the road, because I think that sort of negative reinforcement is the only way that they're going to understand what the rules are and that they apply to them. I think that if everybody understood what the rules actually are and followed the ones that apply to them, we'd have a lot less conflict and anger.

I also wish people on trails (whether they're walking, rollerblading, biking, or whatever else) would learn to keep right so as not to impede traffic faster than themselves, but that's a pipe dream too. The part that really confuses me about that one is that I know most of them have driver's licenses, so you'd think it'd be a standard, basic concept, but I guess we're stuck with people the way they are.

[trailrunner]

Back when I was riding and racing a lot, I saw lots of dangerous behavior towards cyclists. Some of it was clearly intentional. I've been punish passed many time, sometimes resulting in a large trailer passing within a foot of me. That will teach you to hold your line. I've had things thrown at me, and my manhood has been questioned. When I was directing our club's race, some tough-guy wannabes on loud motorcycles didn't think that they had to obey my course marshals, but the Loudoun County sheriff that I paid for set them straight. But sometimes it isn't intentionally intentional. Distracted driving is a big one, or just plain oblivion. Cyclists seem to be invisible to many motorists, which is which blinkies front and rear are standard equipment for me unless I'm on my mountain bike. Another time, I was in between events at a race, watching the other racers. The course was a closed loop, very well marked and well controlled, but a car somehow managed to drive onto the course. Panic shouting ensued. Fortunately the pack was on other side, and the spectators managed to get the confused senior citizen off the course in time.

Don't know what happened in this case. The route was on open roads, which can difficult to control, but the cycling websites I read said that it happened in the first mile, and it was at 0730, so the event was probably just starting. If I were to guess, I'd say the driver was annoyed at all the race logistics at the start blocking his roads, and he was late to work, and either intentional or unintentionally drove onto the course. The collision could have been a very deliberate act because he was pissed that a bunch of rich f---ot Lance Armstrong wannabes on bikes were making him late to work. Or, on longer open courses like this one, it's hard to completely close the route, so sometimes one lane is left open for oncoming traffic. The driver might've been legitimately on the course headed in the opposite direction, tried to pass a slower vehicle, moved into the other lane, and looked up to see a pack of cyclists heading right towards him.

[olstyn]

I've been punish passed many time, sometimes resulting in a large trailer passing within a foot of me. That will teach you to hold your line.

Sometimes it's not even punishment. I about leaped off of my bike once when I went under an overpass and some dude on a motorcycle went wide open throttle just as he passed me. I don't think he was doing it intentionally to scare me so much as to amuse himself at the sound in a semi-confined space, similar to revving the engine in a tunnel, but oh boy did it work to scare me.


I've had things thrown at me, and my manhood has been questioned.

Some idiots in an SUV once hit me with a balloon full of warm liquid. I'm mostly sure it was water...mostly... :(

[Hambo]

Same. I won't lie and say I've never ever run a stop sign on my bike, but I ALWAYS obey every sign when ANY cars are present, because being predictable = not getting hit

I don't think that works anymore. Significant parts of the population here are drunk, on weed or other prescribed drugs, on illicit drugs, distracted, vision impaired, elderly with cognitive problems, or just plain stupid.

[Caballoflaco]

Last year my best friend got smash-o’d by a dude who admitted to the police that he was trying to FaceTime his wife while he was driving. He was lucky that the impact threw him off the road and he landed in the relatively softer dirt. His worse injury was a complete separation on his right shoulder and some major bruising.

[Borderland]

Back when I was riding and racing a lot, I saw lots of dangerous behavior towards cyclists. Some of it was clearly intentional. I've been punish passed many time, sometimes resulting in a large trailer passing within a foot of me. That will teach you to hold your line. I've had things thrown at me, and my manhood has been questioned. When I was directing our club's race, some tough-guy wannabes on loud motorcycles didn't think that they had to obey my course marshals, but the Loudoun County sheriff that I paid for set them straight. But sometimes it isn't intentionally intentional. Distracted driving is a big one, or just plain oblivion. Cyclists seem to be invisible to many motorists, which is which blinkies front and rear are standard equipment for me unless I'm on my mountain bike. Another time, I was in between events at a race, watching the other racers. The course was a closed loop, very well marked and well controlled, but a car somehow managed to drive onto the course. Panic shouting ensued. Fortunately the pack was on other side, and the spectators managed to get the confused senior citizen off the course in time.

Don't know what happened in this case. The route was on open roads, which can difficult to control, but the cycling websites I read said that it happened in the first mile, and it was at 0730, so the event was probably just starting. If I were to guess, I'd say the driver was annoyed at all the race logistics at the start blocking his roads, and he was late to work, and either intentional or unintentionally drove onto the course. The collision could have been a very deliberate act because he was pissed that a bunch of rich f---ot Lance Armstrong wannabes on bikes were making him late to work. Or, on longer open courses like this one, it's hard to completely close the route, so sometimes one lane is left open for oncoming traffic. The driver might've been legitimately on the course headed in the opposite direction, tried to pass a slower vehicle, moved into the other lane, and looked up to see a pack of cyclists heading right towards him.

We have a growing bicyclist population here every summer. At least one race is scheduled every year with a few thousand riders. Lots of those riders come from Seattle. Last year I saw intersections closed so riders could cross in large groups. The only problem was it disrupted the flow of a lot traffic on the main roads, not residential streets. That's the thing that really pisses people off when there is only one main road for 15 miles and somebody closes it for 5 minutes so bicyclists from Seattle can enjoy their sport without the traffic control that vehicles have to deal with. I don't have a problem with bicyclists, just the event organizers and the sheriff/director that approved the traffic control plan. I lodged a strong complaint with the sheriffs office as the traffic control was out of compliance with DOT standards. The flaggers weren't trained or certified and the signage was, well, there wasn't any.

I know a little bit about traffic control standards having the training and working in traffic for 30 years. I tried to explain to the county official the consequences if someone is killed or injured. They won't like the multimillion dollar law suit. They just paid out 12 million in damages for not complying with highway standards on a road not far from me.

I gave them fair warning. We'll see if they listened to anything I said.

[blues]

Got run off the road biking back from Rockaway Beach to Woodhaven in Queens back in the mid 80's. I wish I had had the opportunity to catch up with the perp.

The bike got the damage...bent wheel etc. I was okay.

[SCCY Marshal]

"...in front of the Horne Auto Collision Center..."

The simulation is glitching, again.

On topic, I'm just glad the worst I've ever received is a half-full beer can to the helmet from a passing car.

[trailrunner]

We have a growing bicyclist population here every summer. At least one race is scheduled every year with a few thousand riders. Lots of those riders come from Seattle. Last year I saw intersections closed so riders could cross in large groups. The only problem was it disrupted the flow of a lot traffic on the main roads, not residential streets. That's the thing that really pisses people off when there is only one main road for 15 miles and somebody closes it for 5 minutes so bicyclists from Seattle can enjoy their sport without the traffic control that vehicles have to deal with. I don't have a problem with bicyclists, just the event organizers and the sheriff/director that approved the traffic control plan. I lodged a strong complaint with the sheriffs office as the traffic control was out of compliance with DOT standards. The flaggers weren't trained or licensed and the signage was, well, there wasn't any.

I know a little bit about traffic control standards having the training and working in traffic for 30 years. I tried to explain to the county official the consequences if someone is killed or injured. They won't like the multimillion dollar law suit. They just paid out 12 million in damages for not complying with highway standards on a road not far from me.

I gave them fair warning. We'll see if they listened to anything I said.

Just to be clear: it sounds like an event with a few thousand riders is a charity ride, and not a race. Yeah, some hammerheads treat it like a race, but it's not a race. It's more like a 10k running race.

Is a road closed for 5 minutes that big of an inconvenience? What about when a train comes, or there is construction? And it's not only cyclists. I've done a million running races and triathlons. The Marine Corps Marathon and the Army 10 Miler shut down many roads in the DC area on a Sunday morning. So did the Pride parade the weekend before last, and Juneteenth parade last weekend, and the million mom march and the... So do cops when they pull over a car for a speeding ticket. Same when a car breaks down on a busy road. Yeah, it's an inconvenience.

When I put on my club's race, I got the appropriate permits, which contributed exactly zero to safety. My course marshals were also VDOT approved flaggers, but that was a complete joke. I took the course, passed the exam, and then I was certified. Since I was certified, that gave me the power to administer the exam to the guys on my racing team, and thereby certify them as VDOT flaggers. What a joke that was. I did it during a team meeting, but by God, I followed the rules. As I mentioned in my post, being certified didn't stop some dudes from ignoring my 160 pound marshal standing on a corner directing them to go another way, but the 6 foot 5 inch sheriff and his very large german shepherd sure got their attention.

BTW, one of the worst accidents I got into was when a cop directed a car right in front of me during a triathlon. Not sure if he was a certified flagger or if the traffic control at the intersection met the standards.

[revchuck38]

I don't think that works anymore. Significant parts of the population here are drunk, on weed or other prescribed drugs, on illicit drugs, distracted, vision impaired, elderly with cognitive problems, or just plain stupid.
I’d go with “all of the above”.

[0ddl0t]

I've been brushed by mirrors a handful of times, but fortunately I've never gone down. I don't think any were intentional, just bad drivers not aware of the limits of their vehicles when we happened to be on roads with no shoulders. Most of the road ragers I've encountered are insecure assholes in lifted diesel 4x4s on low profile tires intentionally rolling coal as they pass.

And while obviously not the case in Show Low, there are a number of cyclists who seem to be magnets for vehicular confrontations. These are generally the sort that needlessly take the whole lane just because the law says they have that option...

[Borderland]

Just to be clear: it sounds like an event with a few thousand riders is a charity ride, and not a race. Yeah, some hammerheads treat it like a race, but it's not a race. It's more like a 10k running race.

Is a road closed for 5 minutes that big of an inconvenience? What about when a train comes, or there is construction? And it's not only cyclists. I've done a million running races and triathlons. The Marine Corps Marathon and the Army 10 Miler shut down many roads in the DC area on a Sunday morning. So did the Pride parade the weekend before last, and Juneteenth parade last weekend, and the million mom march and the... So do cops when they pull over a car for a speeding ticket. Same when a car breaks down on a busy road. Yeah, it's an inconvenience.

When I put on my club's race, I got the appropriate permits, which contributed exactly zero to safety. My course marshals were also VDOT approved flaggers, but that was a complete joke. I took the course, passed the exam, and then I was certified. Since I was certified, that gave me the power to administer the exam to the guys on my racing team, and thereby certify them as VDOT flaggers. What a joke that was. I did it during a team meeting, but by God, I followed the rules. As I mentioned in my post, being certified didn't stop some dudes from ignoring my 160 pound marshal standing on a corner directing them to go another way, but the 6 foot 5 inch sheriff and his very large german shepherd sure got their attention.

BTW, one of the worst accidents I got into was when a cop directed a car right in front of me during a triathlon. Not sure if he was a certified flagger or if the traffic control at the intersection met the standards.

It's not a big inconvenience for me but I'm retired.;) Trains are moving freight so I can't really equate that to a delay because of a recreational event. Road construction, which I'm very familiar with usually has many delays, but again, it's infrastructure improvements and not a recreational event. If it weren't for road improvements cyclists wouldn't have a safe place to ride. Ever try riding on a 2 lane county road with no paved shoulders? I see people do it but it I wouldn't try it where I live. I'm pretty sure you would die.

The cert is no joke here. You can't pass out flaggers certs unless you do the National Safety Council's 2-day Instructor Course. I had to have the flaggers cert for my job. It was a 8 hour class with a test. Cert was good for 3 years. I couldn't issue a cert because I had the card. Flaggers are paid $27/hr here and some work year round in the private sector if they have the right connections. My guess is there were no certified flaggers during the event here because the organizers didn't want to pay for the proper traffic control. I didn't see any deputies but it isn't surprising. The county is woefully understaffed. They don't even enforce the speed limits.

Sounds like things are a bit different where you are.

[trailrunner]

It's not a big inconvenience for me but I'm retired.;) Trains are moving freight so I can't really equate that to a delay because of a recreational event. Road construction, which I'm very familiar with usually has many delays, but again, it's infrastructure improvements and not a recreational event. If it weren't for road improvements cyclists wouldn't have a safe place to ride. Ever try riding on a 2 lane county road with no paved shoulders? I see people do it but it I wouldn't try it where I live. I'm pretty sure you would die.


Sure. I've ridden a couple thousand miles (or more) on 2 lane country roads with no paved shoulders. I generally feel safer out there than around the suburbs or the city.

So you don't think an event with a couple thousand cyclists enjoying the roads that their taxes paid for is worth a 5 minute delay?

[DDTSGM]

Ever try riding on a 2 lane county road with no paved shoulders? I see people do it but it I wouldn't try it where I live. I'm pretty sure you would die.

In my area USBR 76 travels along mostly two-lane county roads with no shoulders. On one particular section east of Nickerson, KS, the road gently undulates in several sections. My concern is that a driver in a car might not see a bicylist who was at the bottom of the dip until it was too late. The section that goes through the Quivira National Refuge is actually on wqhat might be called a back road super highway. This section which has absolutely no shoulders, often sees traffic well above the 55mph speed limit.

In my mind it's miraculous that no one has splattered a bicyclist in the area.

https://www.adventurecycling.org/routes-and-maps/us-bicycle-route-system/maps-and-route-resources/?route=kansas76

[Stephanie B]

My mother lives in Hanover, NH. A number of years ago, when I drove up to see her, I was bored with I-91, so I got off the highway, crossed into NH and drove up Route 12A. I saw "River Road" and took that up the Connecticut River. It was a pleasant, sometimes winding road with a rural speed limit of 55 MPH.

At one point, I came around a curve and there were some bike riders head, taking up the entire lane. Fortunately, there was no traffic coming the other way, so I swerved into the opposite lane and passed them, leaning on my horn. There was a drop-off to the right; if there had been traffic coming the other way, I would have plowed right through them and probably would have killed a few.

I know they were within their legal rights. But taking up an entire land on a two-land road and pedaling along at maybe 15- 20 MPH on a 55-limit road is asking to die. Being legally right and dead seems stupid. I hope that they had to stop and change their skivvies.

[Jim Watson]

A friend got lightly bumped a couple of weeks ago on the Natchez Trace, which is popular with cyclists. And not so heavily traveled as to make it hard to swing wide around a cyclist or three.

[Borderland]

Sure. I've ridden a couple thousand miles (or more) on 2 lane country roads with no paved shoulders. I generally feel safer out there than around the suburbs or the city.

So you don't think an event with a couple thousand cyclists enjoying the roads that their taxes paid for is worth a 5 minute delay?

I don't think I have any say in the matter. I'll let the insurance companies work it out. I think I know where the lability will fall by having uncertified flaggers controlling traffic though. If I were an attorney that would be the first question I would ask.

We all pay our taxes and leverage whatever little enjoyment we can find while doing that.

Stay safe.

[2xAGM114]

"The suspect, identified as 35-year-old Shawn Michael Chock of White Mountain Lakes, was hospitalized in critical but stable condition."

My brother has been a sponsored rider for years. There is a pervasive attitude in rural areas that cyclists don't belong on some roads, or in packs. Using the front end of your vehicle to prove your point is the very definition of redneck, Cro-Magnon, neanderthal behavior. I hope he gets everything he deserves.

Unqualified, non-LEO opinion.

[olstyn]

leaning on my horn. There was a drop-off to the right; if there had been traffic coming the other way, I would have plowed right through them and probably would have killed a few.

I know they were within their legal rights. But taking up an entire land on a two-land road and pedaling along at maybe 15- 20 MPH on a 55-limit road is asking to die. Being legally right and dead seems stupid. I hope that they had to stop and change their skivvies.

I don't disagree with you that they were being stupid, but given my own internal reaction when someone honks at me for what seems to me to be no reason, I imagine they just thought you were being an asshole, and their behavior is unlikely to have changed.


In my area USBR 76 travels along mostly two-lane county roads with no shoulders. On one particular section east of Nickerson, KS, the road gently undulates in several sections. My concern is that a driver in a car might not see a bicylist who was at the bottom of the dip until it was too late. The section that goes through the Quivira National Refuge is actually on wqhat might be called a back road super highway. This section which has absolutely no shoulders, often sees traffic well above the 55mph speed limit.

In my mind it's miraculous that no one has splattered a bicyclist in the area.

Riding a road like that would definitely make me nervous. I very much prefer to ride on a decent sized paved shoulder so that there's a clear delineation between "cars go here" and "cars don't go here," and that goes double or triple for roads with speed limits that high.

[TGS]

Is a road closed for 5 minutes that big of an inconvenience? What about when a train comes, or there is construction? And it's not only cyclists. I've done a million running races and triathlons. The Marine Corps Marathon and the Army 10 Miler shut down many roads in the DC area on a Sunday morning. So did the Pride parade the weekend before last, and Juneteenth parade last weekend, and the million mom march and the... So do cops when they pull over a car for a speeding ticket. Same when a car breaks down on a busy road. Yeah, it's an inconvenience.


Now, I'm not advocating for road rage against cyclists......and I've never felt the need to run them over.....

...but...

there's definitely something tangibly annoying about cyclists that is absent the other things you mentioned. I'm not sure if I can put my finger on it.

[Shawn Dodson]

Mom was a dispatcher with Show Low PD. Dad was a deputy with Navajo County SD. I lived in Show Low as a teen in the late 70s. I don't recognize any of the landmarks in the photos.

I used to ride my bike to work in the Bay Area (Sunnyvale) and to Puget Sound Naval Shipyard (Port Orchard to Bremerton). I've been hollered at, spit on and intentionally run off the road. Sunnyvale was worse.

[trailrunner]

Now, I'm not advocating for road rage against cyclists......and I've never felt the need to run them over.....

...but...

there's definitely something tangibly annoying about cyclists that is absent the other things you mentioned. I'm not sure if I can put my finger on it.

Yeah, that's pretty common, and we cyclists are aware of the hateful feelings towards us. There's lot of discussion on the psychology of what motivates those feelings -- jealousy of being free and enjoying ourselves, perception that cyclists are scofflaws that get away with breaking the law, guilt about not exercising, not paying our fair share of taxes, and so on.

[Trooper224]

Yeah, that's pretty common, and we cyclists are aware of the hateful feelings towards us. There's lot of discussion on the psychology of what motivates those feelings -- jealousy of being free and enjoying ourselves, perception that cyclists are scofflaws that get away with breaking the law, guilt about not exercising, not paying our fair share of taxes, and so on.

Do you also crossfit and eat vegan? I bet you're a firefighter too. You're starting to sound persecuted. Perhaps the LGBTQ community could add a letter for you? LGBTQC?

[blues]

Yeah, that's pretty common, and we cyclists are aware of the hateful feelings towards us. There's lot of discussion on the psychology of what motivates those feelings -- jealousy of being free and enjoying ourselves, perception that cyclists are scofflaws that get away with breaking the law, guilt about not exercising, not paying our fair share of taxes, and so on.

It's, in my experience, a perceptible smugness that they own as much of the road as they want and you'll just have to wait for them to deign to give you an option to pass.

There's a difference between acting like "we share the road", and "fuck you...it's our road". I've met both sorts and it's not hard to tell pretty quickly what you're dealing with.

I live in a mountain biking mecca...people come from all over to bike here...on the road and on the trails. My radar is keenly attuned.

That said, I have always enjoyed riding...though it's not something I am active in these days. (And never group rides.)

[Shoresy]

It's, in my experience, a perceptible smugness that they own as much of the road as they want and you'll just have to wait for them to deign to give you an option to pass.

There's a difference between acting like "we share the road", and "fuck you...it's our road". I've met both sorts and it's not hard to tell pretty quickly what you're dealing with.

I live in a mountain biking mecca...people come from all over to bike here...on the road and on the trails. My radar is keenly attuned.

That said, I have always enjoyed riding...though it's not something I am active in these days. (And never group rides.)

When I lived there, central NC cyclists were BAD about exactly that (to the point where it was rare to come across a cyclist who DIDN'T have that attitude).

[Joe in PNG]

Yeah, that's pretty common, and we cyclists are aware of the hateful feelings towards us. There's lot of discussion on the psychology of what motivates those feelings -- jealousy of being free and enjoying ourselves, perception that cyclists are scofflaws that get away with breaking the law, guilt about not exercising, not paying our fair share of taxes, and so on.

Let's see... I drive a two wheel vehicle with a motor, so I'm not jealous of the freedom and self enjoyment... I exercise with other means, and the amount of road tax I pay for my two wheeled motorized conveyance is minimal...

Anyway, personally, the irritation is not due to jealousy, but here is one of many incidents will serve to illustrate my problem with a certain small portion of the cyclist population.

A number of years back, my family was driving up the San-Cap road to meet our fishing guide to get some fish in the flats around Captiva. Not that it's a two lane road with a 45 limit, and it's a very busy road, being the only way to Captiva. However, we were late despite our what should have been a very ample start because some Lance Armstrong LARPer, down to the yellow jersey, felt he had the privilege to self righteously occupy the road, and not let any of those ebil cars and truck pass. And there was a huge line of cars and trucks behind this moron.

Mind you, Sanibel is covered in nice, smooth, and wide bike paths. But Wannabe Lance thought himself too good for those- even if his pace was best described as "elderly", and 9 year old kids on fixies were passing him on the bike path.

So, if you aren't this jerk, pedal on.

[Joe in PNG]

When I lived there, central NC cyclists were BAD about exactly that (to the point where it was rare to come across a cyclist who DIDN'T have that attitude).

There's a great motorcycling, driving, and biking road about a mile away from my house in the US, and it's not all that far from the Central FL cycling Mecca of Sugarloaf "Mountain". And since the roads tend to be backcountry, rural, and out of the way, it's understandable and expected to see a lot of cycle traffic on these roads- and one does make allowances for them. Since it's a fairly underused road, one can pass even the biggest road hog without too much danger.

It's when the Lance LARPers deliberately and self righteously lane hog those two lane, no shoulder roads that are the only real traffic option- and are typically full of traffic- that it gets irritating.

[peterb]

I ride a lot, and have real mixed feelings about group rides.

On the plus side, I like learning new routes. I like the social aspect. I like the working together — being in a pace line that’s tight and fast and smooth is exhilarating. I like the energy at group events. I like teaching and learning.

But more often than not, I end up angry and frustrated at the bad behavior I see. No lane discipline, ignoring traffic signs & signals, and general rudeness toward other road users. Is it really that hard to stop at a stop sign, or slide right when someone yells “car back”? Arrgghh.

So mostly I ride alone.

That said, any asshole who deliberately targets cyclists with a motor vehicle deserves to have their hide nailed to the wall.

[olstyn]

But more often than not, I end up angry and frustrated at the bad behavior I see. No lane discipline, ignoring traffic signs & signals, and general rudeness toward other road users. Is it really that hard to stop at a stop sign, or slide right when someone yells “car back”? Arrgghh.

On my ride this afternoon after work, I was behind a guy on an e-bike for a while. He was blowing through stop signs on said e-bike, and thus kept getting away from me. (I stopped for all of the stop signs he ignored.) The thing that kept angrily running through my mind was of course that given the electric motor assist, he REALLY had no excuse whatsoever for that behavior. Conservation of momentum is a thing, but the assist really minimizes the penalty for stopping. At least when I passed him and never saw him again I got to feel smug about my fitness being better than his laziness. :)

[Paul D]

Me: So, what kind of exercise do you do?

Patient: Oh, I bicycle a lot in Phoenix!

Me: Oh, cool!

Patient: I have a recumbent bike!

Me: Oh, no....

Patient: ...but I have tall flags on my bike!

Me: no, no, no, no.....

[revchuck38]

I did a race a couple of years ago put on by the folks who put on RAAM (Race Across America). It was a "short" race by their standards, only about 200 miles. A bunch of those folks were running racing recumbents. Those things can move!

[JAD]

there's definitely something tangibly annoying about cyclists that is absent the other things you mentioned. I'm not sure if I can put my finger on it.

It’s the fucking banana hammocks, and the problem is that I -can- put my finger on it.

[olstyn]

It’s the fucking banana hammocks, and the problem is that I -can- put my finger on it.

I don't believe I've ever seen anyone biking while wearing a banana hammock. You must live in a truly special place.

[JAD]

I don't believe I've ever seen anyone biking while wearing a banana hammock. You must live in a truly special place.
Plum smugglers, then. Have it your way.

[olstyn]

Plum smugglers, then. Have it your way.

Just so we're clear on this, it's only male bikers who offend your sensibilities, then? Women are fine to wear lycra?

[JAD]

73143
Just so we're clear on this, it's only male bikers who offend your sensibilities, then? Women are fine to wear lycra?

[Joe in PNG]

Women are fine to wear lycra?

Some can, others shouldn't. Sadly, the latter tend to do so on a regular basis, usually at Walmart.

[Greg]

I used to ride and race road and mountain bikes.

One time, on a road ride near North Conway NH, some knuckledragger (going the other direction) threw a wrapped BK Whopper at me. I watched it come unwrapped in mid air, and the the sandwich came apart in mid air.

It was kind of funny because I knew it would miss me and I figured the guy now didn’t have his lunch. Lettuce, tomato, onions, “meat like substance” I could count the number of pickle slices.

I was not in the middle of the road either.

[olstyn]

Some can, others shouldn't. Sadly, the latter tend to do so on a regular basis, usually at Walmart.

People of Walmart (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sePfUEOEk14) are their own special category, to be sure. :)

[DDTSGM]

It's, in my experience, a perceptible smugness that they own as much of the road as they want and you'll just have to wait for them to deign to give you an option to pass.

There's a difference between acting like "we share the road", and "fuck you...it's our road". I've met both sorts and it's not hard to tell pretty quickly what you're dealing with.

I live in a mountain biking mecca...people come from all over to bike here...on the road and on the trails. My radar is keenly attuned.

That said, I have always enjoyed riding...though it's not something I am active in these days. (And never group rides.)

I attended a course for police bike officers put on by an International Police Mountain Bike Association instructor many years ago really never agreed with the whole 'take the lane' thing' cuz who is going to win that battle? Cyclist may be legally correct, but they'll still be dead or seriously injured.

[Joe in PNG]

I attended a course for police bike officers put on by an International Police Mountain Bike Association instructor many years ago really never agreed with the whole 'take the lane' thing' cuz who is going to win that battle? Cyclist may be legally correct, but they'll still be dead or seriously injured.

It's the same with motorcycles- there's some situations where you may wind up dead right.

[DDTSGM]

It's the same with motorcycles- there's some situations where you may wind up dead right.

I rely on three things 1) 'ride like you are invisible' 2) self-commentary to keep me looking for DWHUA motorists and 3) speed to enable me to get out of other motorists blind spots and stay ahead of packs.

ETA: That being said, my club has, IMO, been guilty of causing traffic congestion on group rides because of some members insistence to ride the speed limit when in fact the flow of traffic is 5-7 faster. There are several guys I no longer ride with because I feel their riding style - slow on highway speed roads - makes it unsafe for folks on the road around them. They get three or four cars piled up behind them, someone gets impatient and makes an unsafe pass, next thing you know you've got an injury accident or fatality.

[revchuck38]

I don't believe I've ever seen anyone biking while wearing a banana hammock. You must live in a truly special place.

He may be referring to the guys who run next to racers at major races. Like a lot of other sports, cycling has some weird hangers-on.

[TGS]

There's lot of discussion on the psychology of what motivates those feelings -- jealousy of being free and enjoying ourselves, perception that cyclists are scofflaws that get away with breaking the law, guilt about not exercising, not paying our fair share of taxes, and so on.

This whole paragraph is "the most cyclist thing ever," and really captures why people hate cyclists.

The entire premise of this paragraph is that cyclists are obviously superior to everyone else, and we all just want to be something we can't obtain because we aren't good enough and end up hating you all for it....

...when in reality, it's probably just that roads are designed and primarily purposed for cars, people are trying to get places, and you've got this gaggle of smug motherfuckers taking up half the road virtue-signaling about how they're enjoying themselves while eating exhaust fumes when they're really just on some shitty road that I can't for the life of me imagine why I'd ever be caught on it if it wasn't for the sake of needing to get from point A to point B. Then, when you are finally able to pass them safely, they give you dirty looks.

I swear to god, if it were legal, cyclists would bike on Route 66 and 495 during rush hour and be like, "WHAT I'M JUST TRYING TO ENJOY MYSELF AND MY OPEN AIR FREEDOM OF ADVENTURE!" Looking from the outside in, it just seems like cyclists on well travelled public roads want to engage in some sort of victim-complex than anything.

[mmc45414]

I like to bicycle (not very dilligent right now...) and motorcycle (dabbled in roadracing a couple of seasons, getting back into street riding).

I always thought it was a weird, twisted irony that Nicky Hayden got killed on a bicycle, but it turned out he blew a stop sign.

https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/italian-officials-release-report-on-fatal-nicky-hayden-crashhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210622/c892331252c910399389ca822e1295c4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210622/a20e8dcc6bc1cf88cbe8b2fafece32ea.jpg

ETA: Yeah, those are slider pucks on his ELBOWS....

[peterb]

I attended a course for police bike officers put on by an International Police Mountain Bike Association instructor many years ago really never agreed with the whole 'take the lane' thing' cuz who is going to win that battle? Cyclist may be legally correct, but they'll still be dead or seriously injured.

IMO, it really depends on the situation. For example, if you’re coming to an intersection with a left-turn lane, it’s often safer to be in the left-turn lane than to try to turn left across traffic from the right shoulder. If there’s a right-turn lane and you’re going straight, the right side of the straight lane may be a better option than the right shoulder.

There are lots of variables: lane design, traffic density, traffic speed, etc.

I do try to stay on the right edge of the lane and hold a good line so cars can get by.

[olstyn]

if you’re coming to an intersection with a left-turn lane, it’s often safer to be in the left-turn lane than to try to turn left across traffic from the right shoulder.

I might even upgrade your "often" to "always" except that there's an exception for every rule.


If there’s a right-turn lane and you’re going straight, the right side of the straight lane may be a better option than the right shoulder.

This one is especially true if you're coming up to a red light - I feel that there's no sense in blocking people from turning right.


I do try to stay on the right edge of the lane and hold a good line so cars can get by.

Exactly.

[DC_P]

I know they were within their legal rights. But taking up an entire land on a two-land road and pedaling along at maybe 15- 20 MPH on a 55-limit road is asking to die. Being legally right and dead seems stupid. I hope that they had to stop and change their skivvies.

I am a former competitive cyclist who used to spend 15+ hrs a weeks training on local (mostly rural) roads. Few things annoy me more than seeing a large group of cyclists taking up a full lane (especially when it is curvy or unsighted) just because they can and were going to prove it, not even acknowledging the cars or making any attempt to let traffic by safely. I felt like they were a major reason people in cars dislike cyclists. Yes it is legal to do so, just not very smart or considerate.