Meprolight FT Bullseye sight for aging eyes - an experiment

[HeavyDuty]

I know there will be people who will immediately jump on this with derision, but I’m intrigued enough from my experience shooting a friend’s P365 SAS that I want to give these a try.

My eyes are aging enough that using traditional iron sights is becoming a struggle. I’ve compensated by settling on a bright orange ringed front tritium dot and a plain black serrated rear (Ameriglo Hackathorns) for most defensive pistols. But, to be honest, it’s fuzzier than I would like. I work on indexing to provide additional compensation.

I’ve started testing the idea of a RDS on my defensive pistols. I have two - a G19.5 MOS with a 6.5 MOA RMR, and a G43X MOS with a Swampfox Sentinel. These are easier to sight but I’m not in love with the high bore axis or added cost, and I have durability concerns.

Another data point - many years ago I owned a ASP with the Guttersnipe sight. It was interesting, and I found I could easily get fast center mass hits so long as I had good light. My faint recollection is that sucked for indexing due to the tapered sight body, though.

My main carry pistol is a G43 with Hacks. I’ve been currently weighing picking up a second G43 and milling it for a RMRcc, but I’m thinking I want to give a FT Bullseye on a new pistol a try first. If it works out, great. If not, I’ll flip it for a small loss and proceed with the original RMRcc idea.

Shooting my friend’s P365 SAS has been enlightening. Having the dot and ring on the same plane at the rear of the sight works for me. I think it deserves a try, and ordered one today.

I’ll use this thread to track my journey. It may be a slow one given the current ammunition shortages.

https://www.meprolight.com/product/mepro-ft-bullseye/?ml=ML-63102 (this page has the wrong SKUs listed)

[JCN]

HeavyDuty

I have some advice if you’re interested, ignore it if you aren’t!

I think you can do pretty much 95% of the training and experiment in dry fire.

I think ultimately a red dot will be the best solution for you, if you’re good with getting an iron / bullseye index but just can’t focus on the sighting system due to eyes, then a target focused red dot will be the answer.

High optic over bore isn’t an issue with practice, it’s just like indexing with a different gun. It takes practice.

A large dot window goes a long way to preventing having to hunt. Could also do the Doctor / DPP micro if you wanted something that’s basically like electronically augmented irons.

I use a Holosun 507k that is co-witnessed with the factory irons and that I think would be a good solution for you.

I suspect if focusing on a front sight is hard, focusing on a rear sight like a bullseye will be even more difficult.

My SAS slide for a P938 comes in soon, so I’ll have some comparative data but I think a low profile red dot is your droid.

[HeavyDuty]

HeavyDuty

I have some advice if you’re interested, ignore it if you aren’t!

I think you can do pretty much 95% of the training and experiment in dry fire.

I think ultimately a red dot will be the best solution for you, if you’re good with getting an iron / bullseye index but just can’t focus on the sighting system due to eyes, then a target focused red dot will be the answer.

High optic over bore isn’t an issue with practice, it’s just like indexing with a different gun. It takes practice.

A large dot window goes a long way to preventing having to hunt. Could also do the Doctor / DPP micro if you wanted something that’s basically like electronically augmented irons.

I use a Holosun 507k that is co-witnessed with the factory irons and that I think would be a good solution for you.

I suspect if focusing on a front sight is hard, focusing on a rear sight like a bullseye will be even more difficult.

My SAS slide for a P938 comes in soon, so I’ll have some comparative data but I think a low profile red dot is your droid.

You may very well be right, and I definitely wouldn’t bet against you. But I do think it will make an interesting, low cost experiment. I got the sight cheaply enough that I wouldn’t lose much if (when) I abandon ship and go RMRcc.

My comments about RDS height over bore are based on personal experience with my two RDS equipped pistols, and the Mepro’s usability for my eyesight on putting a few hundred rounds through a friend’s gun.

[JodyH]

My experience with Bullseye sights on my pocket carry P365 SAS has been positive so far.
I can make hits on a "A/C" USPSA steel silhouette out to 50Y on demand using them.
At all ranges I am about as fast and accurate with the SAS as I am with my red ramped 340PD J-frame.
Fist sized group inside 10Y, 8" plate out to 25Y, 10" plate out to 40Y or so then on a "A/C" silhouette at 50Y.
All at a respectable speed.
Basically the SAS is my 11 shot J frame.
For me the Bullseye shoots a lot like a red dot (especially a Holosun circle only reticle) or XS sights.
Target focus, hit your index and like magic the "dot" appears where you're looking.
Press the trigger while the dot is on target.

The Bullseye sights fit into my 2021 way of shooting very well.
I've gone back in time to the '90's and installed XS DXT2 green standard dot sights on all my Glocks again and really, really liking the results.
I also have a Holosun on a 19X and use the circle only reticle.

[okie john]

Following with great interest.


Okie John

[BillSWPA]

As a skeptic of any emphasis on snag-free as opposed to accurate, easy to see sights, I hope you do not get any derision. I will be interested to see how this experiment turns out.

[JodyH]

As a skeptic of any emphasis on snag-free as opposed to accurate, easy to see sights,
Mission drives the gear.
The guttersnipe/Bullseye/XS are infinitely better sights than tall, sharp Heinie Straight 8's or a MRDS on a pocket pistol.

Snag free isn't a factor... until it's really, really a factor.
Same with precision at 25Y. When you need it, you really need it.
:p

[HeavyDuty]

I don’t plan on pocket carrying this 43, so snag free really isn’t a factor. It’s all about the ease of seeing the sights.

[JodyH]

I don’t plan on pocket carrying this 43, so snag free really isn’t a factor. It’s all about the ease of seeing the sights.
XS DXT2 standard dot (I prefer green) sights.
Yea, I said XS sights.
But then again I've been a fan of them off and on for 20 years, including my best ever FAST times.
I'm back on the XS train again right now, they're on everything I carry except my SAS and one Holosun topped 19X.
My speed has gone up and my accuracy hasn't degraded (and anyone who's shot with me can attest to my accuracy).

[HeavyDuty]

JodyH, I’m glad to hear you’ve been having good luck with your SAS. The Bullseye sights are very polarizing - people either seem to hate them (the majority, including people who have never handled them in real life) or like them, with not many in the middle. I fully expect this experiment to fail, but who knows?

[BillSWPA]

As I type this, I am pocket carrying a P365 with the standard sights, as I have done for the warmer half of about 2 years now. There is nothing on the gun that is likely to snag anything. Since the version with standard sights has nothing that will snag, I would hope that any loss of accuracy is minimal, in proportion to whatever theoretical gain in snag-free may exist.

[JodyH]

As I type this, I am pocket carrying a P365 with the standard sights, as I have done for the warmer half of about 2 years now. There is nothing on the gun that is likely to snag anything. Since the version with standard sights has nothing that will snag, I would hope that any loss of accuracy is minimal, in proportion to whatever theoretical gain in snag-free may exist.
On the first P365 I bought I replaced the factory sights with XS, because the rear sight liked to catch on my pocket lining (so for my second P365 I just bought a SAS).
YMMV... if everybody had the exact same situation we'd all be carrying the exact same gun the exact same way.
But this forum pretty much proves there's more than one way to skin a gat.

[HeavyDuty]

Steps 1 and 2 complete - sight ordered this morning, new G43 in the safe this afternoon. This is my first USA Glock.

[BillSWPA]

On the first P365 I bought I replaced the factory sights with XS, because the rear sight liked to catch on my pocket lining (so for my second P365 I just bought a SAS).
YMMV... if everybody had the exact same situation we'd all be carrying the exact same gun the exact same way.
But this forum pretty much proves there's more than one way to skin a gat.

This thread is going to prove to be interesting. Your experience is, if I recall correctly, the first time I have come across conventional sights snagging on a draw. I have snagged revolver hammer spurs, and once snagged the slide release of a Glock on the retention strap of a cheap nylon holster, but never a sight. Now we know that the problem which the SAS claims to solve actually occurs. This is the one version of the P365 that I have not liked, but I may end up having to change my opinion as this thread progresses.

[JodyH]

This thread is going to prove to be interesting. Your experience is, if I recall correctly, the first time I have come across conventional sights snagging on a draw. I have snagged revolver hammer spurs, and once snagged the slide release of a Glock on the retention strap of a cheap nylon holster, but never a sight. Now we know that the problem which the SAS claims to solve actually occurs. This is the one version of the P365 that I have not liked, but I may end up having to change my opinion as this thread progresses.
I've always chosen my sights very carefully on pocket carry autos, usually ending up with XS big dots for the extremely low profile rear sight and the smooth front sight, same with always going hammerless on my J-frames.
I primarily pocket carry, so I do a lot of practice from the pocket and have found most traditional notch and post sights (especially aftermarket Glock 42/43 sights) to snag just often enough to have me seek out alternatives.
I find the Sig X-Ray sights that come on the P365 to be the best shooting sights out there, they really nailed it on the overall design from a shooters perspective.
But they snag, not all the time, not even that frequently, but often enough.
The integrated Bullseye sight is inferior to both the X-Ray and the XS sights when it comes to shooting.
The Bullseye is less a sighting system and more of a visual indicator that the pistol is aligned with the intended target.
If that's good enough for you, then the integrated Bullseye sight is hands down the best "overall package" 9mm pocket pistol out there. Not just low profile, but no profile.

What to expect when it comes to shooting?
Don't expect to clean a dot torture.
If you're an accomplished shooter you can expect a clean FAST (can consistently hit a 3x5 @ 7Y).
Fist sized groups at normal speed (for a sub-sub-compact 9mm) out to 10Y.
Everything on a 8" plate out to 25Y, 10" plate to 35Y and on a A/C USPSA silhouette out to 50Y.
Basically what I can do with XS sighted Glock 43 or PM9, or a red ramp sighted J-frame in good lighting.

[HeavyDuty]

My biggest design concern with these is adjustability. I’m hearing that adjusting elevation is a shimming issue, but I could have sworn I’ve seen pics of a version with a front elevation screw. I guess we’ll see. The Guttersnipe wasn’t adjustable either, but IIRC it was pretty close to 10M POA.

[HeavyDuty]

Sight has finally shipped, time to set up the kidney sale for range ammunition.

[Borderland]

My 0.02. Defensive pistols don't need reflex sights. I have Vortex on several of my target guns and they improve my 25 and 50 yd shooting yugely. I love those things and it makes me feel like I'm still in the game. The truth is my eyesight isn't good enough to shoot at those distances with iron sights. I can still manage aperture sights on a carbine but I have problems with pistols and revolvers. The sight picture just isn't clear enough to shoot well at those distances. I have eye exams every year and get new glasses but it doesn't help.

I can shoot well enough at 7 yards without any help from after market sights. That's my gauge for a carry. I'm sure many will disagree but 7 yards is my standard for a carry. Honestly, I think I'm using my front sight and never really seeing my rear sight. At least it isn't a conscious effort. I used a shotgun for many years and shot for money. Shotguns don't have rear sights, at least the ones I used. Your eye is the rear sight. The rib is there so you can pick up the front bead. That's all you need.

[willie]

The term "Bullseye" here is a misnomer. It implies front and rear sights. This gismo is a lighted dot placed on the target. It might work ok.

[JCN]

The term "Bullseye" here is a misnomer. It implies front and rear sights. This gismo is a lighted dot placed on the target. It might work ok.

73187

It’s a dot in a circle. If the index is off, the dot moves in the circle.

It looks like a bullseye to me, no?

Just to cross post, I found them seamless to use. Even weak handed.


https://youtu.be/Xtq0qQTh8MQ

[willie]

73187

It’s a dot in a circle. If the index is off, the dot moves in the circle.

It looks like a bullseye to me, no?

Just to cross post, I found them seamless to use. Even weak handed.


https://youtu.be/Xtq0qQTh8MQ

Thanks for the clarification. I need one.

[HeavyDuty]

The term "Bullseye" here is a misnomer. It implies front and rear sights. This gismo is a lighted dot placed on the target. It might work ok.

My past experience is that it seems to work fine for my needs. This will allow me to be sure before I go down the RDS route.

[JodyH]

My 0.02. Defensive pistols don't need reflex sights. I have Vortex on several of my target guns and they improve my 25 and 50 yd shooting yugely. I love those things and it makes me feel like I'm still in the game. The truth is my eyesight isn't good enough to shoot at those distances with iron sights. I can still manage aperture sights on a carbine but I have problems with pistols and revolvers. The sight picture just isn't clear enough to shoot well at those distances. I have eye exams every year and get new glasses but it doesn't help.

I can shoot well enough at 7 yards without any help from after market sights. That's my gauge for a carry. I'm sure many will disagree but 7 yards is my standard for a carry. Honestly, I think I'm using my front sight and never really seeing my rear sight. At least it isn't a conscious effort. I used a shotgun for many years and shot for money. Shotguns don't have rear sights, at least the ones I used. Your eye is the rear sight. The rib is there so you can pick up the front bead. That's all you need.
Turned 51 this year.
Have 20/20 from LASIK, but still have old man fuzzy eyes at arms length.
All my carry and defensive Glocks have green XS DXT2 standard dot sights, my pocket carry P365 SAS has the Bullseye sight on it.
XS because I like the express front sight dominant sight picture and I shoot them well (my best ever FAST was with XS big dots).
Green because I see it the best under the most conditions. Standard dot because it's a happy medium between high visibility and precision.

Almost all my shooting these days is on steel ranging from 6" to 10" plates and a USPSA A/C silhouette at ranges from 10Y-50Y.
My defensive standard is an appropriate sized target at an appropriate distance shooting an appropriate number of rounds as fast as possible, zero misses.
Kinda vague... but from years of competition/training I know what standard I need to maintain and how to not just maintain but improve.

[HeavyDuty]

The sight showed up today and went right on. The sight picture is as I remembered, rather quick if you have good index. I tested it before mounting in the dungeon interior closet and confirmed the tritium was doing its thing.

It slipped right on. It better shoot to POA because there are no adjustments. I’ll dip into my shrinking stash of Lawman 124s to try it out in the next week or two and will report back. To reiterate, I’m looking for this to be a minute of pie plate 25’ defensive gun where I can see the sights more easily.

73353

73354

[HeavyDuty]

Oh, and the good news is that if this experiment works, the sight fits in a few of my usual non optic IWB and OWB holsters plus my IWB that is optic cut.

[JCN]

Updates?

[HeavyDuty]

Updates?

I have a case of ammunition arriving tomorrow, so hopefully I can get to the range in the next week or so.

[No.6]

I have a case of ammunition arriving tomorrow, so hopefully I can get to the range in the next week or so.

?

[HeavyDuty]

Nothing yet - I had to run back to Chicago this week.

[jandbj]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jua8a8BgLHI

Looks like Galloway mills all sorts for these. Buried in the slide like the 365SAS. Hmmmmm.

[HeavyDuty]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jua8a8BgLHI

Looks like Galloway mills all sorts for these. Buried in the slide like the 365SAS. Hmmmmm.

Interesting…

[jandbj]

Interesting…

I’ll hold off on selling the slide from my original G43 to see how this shakes out for you. Might be interested in this for a pocket rocket 9mm... and if it works maybe a G42 as well.

You mentioned the link in the OP having the wrong SKU number, what SKU did you actually purchase for the 43?


Oh, and I read through the comments on the YouTube vid... looks like $125 plus shipping for the milling from Galloway.

[HeavyDuty]

I’ll hold off on selling the slide from my original G43 to see how this shakes out for you. Might be interested in this for a pocket rocket 9mm... and if it works maybe a G42 as well.

You mentioned the link in the OP having the wrong SKU number, what SKU did you actually purchase for the 43?


Oh, and I read through the comments on the YouTube vid... looks like $125 plus shipping for the milling from Galloway.

I’d be tempted to try this with a Brownells slide, or a spare Glock slide - I’m still not entirely sure I won’t end up getting my original slide milled for a RMRcc. I wonder how they deal with POA?

The correct SKU is 0631023108.

[HeavyDuty]

I finally made it to the range with this last night.

As expected, this isn’t a target sighting system. I was able to easily and quickly make center of mass hits out to 25’, but it works best inside of 7 yards (as expected.) Acquisition is quick, I’m chasing the dot a little like I do at first with a RDS when I haven’t been practicing so I expect that would go away with use. Probably the biggest difference is not being able to see through the dot, but at the closer ranges where this is appropriate I don’t think that matters much.

I’ll continue the experiment. I have a 26.5 out for milling to take a RMRcc so I’ll compare the two when that’s back and running. There’s a pretty good chance the 43 will end up the same way.

[HeavyDuty]

Range trip two, another 100 rounds. I’m still not sure, and am beginning to wonder how this would be on my 42 instead. So far, the Mepro does exactly what they said it will do.

[HeavyDuty]

I’ve decided switching back and forth between the Mepro and a RDS is more than my reptilian brain can handle, so the experiment is over. I bundled up the slide to send to Battlewerx for a RMRcc cut and will be moving the Mepro on. It actually works very well, but I need consistency.