Extra-Hard Primers in Recent Winchester NATO-spec 9x19?

[revchuck38]

I've shot several cases of this stuff and it was my preferred ammo for classes that required factory rounds. I've had problems with the last case I bought - 5x150-round boxes headstamped WMA 20. Specifically, I had two rounds that required more than one strike to fire, both in my PX4 D. OTOH, I used it in two classes with other guns (PX4 G and Walther P99C) with no issues. Those two rounds that didn't go off the first time (one took one extra strike, the other two) are the only two rounds I've had issues with since I bought the gun. The gun itself was a police trade-in built in '11, so it's possible there's just a lot of accumulated funk in the FP channel or something. It has run fine with my handloads and S&B ammo.

The gun has been to LTT for a trigger job so that may be a contributing factor, though I asked for a heavier trigger spring.

Has anyone else had problems with this stuff recently?

[Jim Watson]

Beats me; but every time I read about a Beretta trigger job, it is using a lighter mainspring than the one before.
And considering the ammo fires in your other guns...
I would put in a stouter spring and see if it shot.

[JSGlock34]

I think as manufacturers cast a wider net for components like primers to increase production, we're going to hear more reports like this.

That said, I've always found tuned Berettas ammunition sensitive, with a distinct preference for Federal primers when running lighter springs.

[JodyH]

I think as manufacturers cast a wider net for components like primers to increase production, we're going to hear more reports like this.
That's why my two year old carry ammo stash goes untouched.
Any new JHP I purchase is used for testing and training.
I'll shoot and replace my actual carry ammo stash when the supply chain normalizes and manufacturers aren't rushing product out the door.

[Wake27]

It may have been on M4C, but there was a thread about this pre-panic and I thought it was already well known at that point. It’s the only ammo I’ve had light primer strikes with my Glock so I started using Lawman 124gr instead.


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[GyroF-16]

Tangentially related, but maybe relevant...
In the last 5000 brick of Winchester primers (WSP) I bought pre-pandemic, I’ve had three issues in the last month.
One dead primer (the first in probably at least 20k rounds reloaded with WSPs), and two that appeared “hard”, requiring a second strike (using DA in my B92).
The second two were also after replacing the hammer with a Beretta “Competition Hammer”, but as far as I know, it was the same weight as the Elite hammer it replaced.

Nothing conclusive, but the first “failures to ignite” I’ve had with Winchester primers, so worthy of note.

[Outpost75]

Minimum striker indent for 9mm NATO is 0.012" on COPPER, using the "C" size annealed .225x400" copper cylinder in the government gage holder.

Pacific Tool And Gage can provide both the gage holder and the coppers. Your best bet for ordering a small gunsmith test quantity if you are spending your own money and not Uncle Sugar's....

[GyroF-16]

Minimum striker indent for 9mm NATO is 0.012" on COPPER, using the "C" size annealed .225x400" copper cylinder in the government gage holder.

Pacific Tool And Gage can provide both the gage holder and the coppers. Your best bet for ordering a small gunsmith test quantity if you are spending your own money and not Uncle Sugar's....

Always interested in new tools for guns, I went to the Pacific Tool and Gauge website to see whether the equipment you suggest would be cost-effective (or just reasonably priced).
I had no luck searching on things like “copper cylinder” “NATO”, etc.
Can you help us better describe the items you’re talking about? Or even post a link?
I truly appreciate the info - just need a little more, I guess…

[Outpost75]

Always interested in new tools for guns, I went to the Pacific Tool and Gauge website to see whether the equipment you suggest would be cost-effective (or just reasonably priced).
I had no luck searching on things like “copper cylinder” “NATO”, etc.
Can you help us better describe the items you’re talking about? Or even post a link?
I truly appreciate the info - just need a little more, I guess…


https://pacifictoolandgauge.com/copper-crusher-cylinders/11310-firing-pin-copper-crusher-cylinders-package-of-5.html

[JohnO]

Were these primers harder than usual or not fully seated?

Often a cartridge that requires a second strike results from a primer that isn't fully seated. The energy from the first strike is diminished by the primer moving and results in failure to fire. Examination of the cartridge after the first strike typically reveals what appears to be a fully seated primer (now it is) and a lighter than normal impact.

[revchuck38]

Were these primers harder than usual or not fully seated?

Often a cartridge that requires a second strike results from a primer that isn't fully seated. The energy from the first strike is diminished by the primer moving and results in failure to fire. Examination of the cartridge after the first strike typically reveals what appears to be a fully seated primer (now it is) and a lighter than normal impact.

I've had that happen with my handloads in the past, but never with factory ammo. Still, it's a possibility.

[OlongJohnson]

Minimum striker indent for 9mm NATO is 0.012" on COPPER, using the "C" size annealed .225x400" copper cylinder in the government gage holder.

Pacific Tool And Gage can provide both the gage holder and the coppers. Your best bet for ordering a small gunsmith test quantity if you are spending your own money and not Uncle Sugar's....


https://pacifictoolandgauge.com/copper-crusher-cylinders/11310-firing-pin-copper-crusher-cylinders-package-of-5.html

e_stern has mentioned that the Beretta spec for the 92 that affects trigger weight is a minimum indentation of a NATO-spec primer, rather than any measurement of the trigger press itself. Don't know if it's the same number as above.

On the main topic, I recently tried a lighter hammer spring in a semi. Lit 100% of HSTs, had lots of light strikes on Winchester WB 9mm. Several in a magazine, which was enough to call it a day. My plan was to use CCI to check it, but had a bunch of WWB already loaded in mags for practice. Going back up on spring weight, obviously.

[Rock185]

FWIW, I've used many thousands of rounds of the Winchester 9mm NATO. These primers, the IMI NATO and Winchester M1152 primers are the hardest small pistol primers I've encountered. The only time I ever had a failure to fire with any of these was when I tried to use a lighter mainspring in a couple guns. All very reliable ammo within my experience, but never intended for guns with trigger jobs, lighter mainsprings, etc...