Current Quality Firearms Instructors - Give me your list!

[Adam]

PF crew, if you were to start listing off quality current handgun (primarily) or carbine instructors, who is on your list? Tom Givens is always on there for me for skill building/CCW/defensive pistol stuff, but I’ve realized I stay on top of The Who’s Who of whatever I’m most interested in at the time e.g. Jedi with RDS, Southnarc and ECQC, etc. This is pretty open ended for quality instruction, from pure skill building from high level competitors to more defense-focused.

Whatcha got?

[HCM]

PF crew, if you were to start listing off quality current handgun (primarily) or carbine instructors, who is on your list? Tom Givens is always on there, but my list always seems to narrow as my focus veers here or there e.g. combatives, red dots, etc.

Whatcha got?

Many are members here:

Red Dot Pistol (and pistol in general) : AsianJedi Scott Jedlinski of Modern Samurai Project

Pistol and Carbine: Mr Pink Mike Green and his crew at Green Ops

Combatives: SouthNarc, Craig Douglas, Cecil Burch and Jackdog

Rumor has is Ernest Langdon LangdonTactical is a pretty good pistol instructor too.

[Adam]

Many are members here:

Red Dot Pistol (and pistol in general) : AsianJedi Scott Jedlinski of Modern Samurai Project

Pistol and Carbine: Mr Pink Mike Green and his crew at Green Ops

Combatives: SouthNarc, Craig Douglas, Cecil Burch and Jackdog

Indeed! PF is heavy on skill so that’s why I’m deferring to you guys!

PS - OP edited and reworded for clarity.

[LJP]

Mike Pannone
John Murphy
John Hearne
Wayne Dobbs
Karl Rehn
Darryl Bolke
Kyle Defoor
Bill Rapier

I know you didn’t mention shotgun instruction, but…

Rob and Matt Haught
Tim Chandler
Ashton Ray
And again, DB

I’ve trained with all of the above and they are all at the top of their game.

I haven’t trained with Mas Ayoob or Dave Spaulding yet, but I wouldn’t hesitate to take a class with either of them before they retire from teaching.

Gunsite is always a good immersive experience. I was fortunate to have Ed Head as my rangemaster back in 2004.

And I’m eternally blessed that my initial handgun instruction was from Tom Givens at the original Rangemaster right after he first opened it in the late 90’s in Memphis.

[Sal Picante]

Why Gabe White isn't at the top of this list is beyond me... Mr_White

I'd also point out our own Paul Sharp - Rev Pistol was one of the best fundamentals classes I ever took.

Mickey at Carrytrainer has some good info - solid place to begin building a good mindset.

[gtmtnbiker98]

Tom Givens should be at the top of any list of current worthwhile instructors.

[Adam]

Mike Pannone
[SNIP]

And I’m eternally blessed that my initial handgun instruction was from Tom Givens at the original Rangemaster right after he first opened it in the late 90’s in Memphis.

My first traveling class was to Rangemaster for Combative Pistol with Tom. I was considering a maybe considered controversial *choot dem in da faaaaace* school and a guy PMed me and mentioned Tom's name. Then I saw it again and again and again and reached out to Tom. One of the best training decisions I've made for sure.


Why Gabe White isn't at the top of this list is beyond me... Mr_White

I'd also point out our own Paul Sharp - Rev Pistol was one of the best fundamentals classes I ever took.

Mickey at Carrytrainer has some good info - solid place to begin building a good mindset.

Gabe is definitely on my list and is admittedly more intimidating for me than ECQC was because I will really learn I have meh pistol performance. :D (Mostly joking, at least about the intimidating part)

PS - you're an ok shooter yourself man. :)

Paul is one of my missing Shivworks Collective training tokens. Paul fire up MDOC again, I want to come to Idaho anyway!


Tom Givens should be at the top of any list of current worthwhile instructors.

Absolutely. He's on the pistolcraft Rushmore IMO.

[Default.mp3]

Chuck Pressburg and Craig Douglas have been the best instructors I've experienced so far.

[HCM]

Two excellent instructors who’ve been around a long time are Scott Reitz of ITTS and Paul Howe of CSAT. However neither travels anymore so you have to go to them (Los Angeles CA and Nacogdoches TX respectively.

Scott is known for shotgun and was doing vehicle tactics long before anyone called it VCQB. He also teaches pistol and precision rifle. Paul Howe is best known for tactics and rifle/carbine and also does pistol.

[HCM]

Why Gabe White isn't at the top of this list is beyond me... Mr_White

I'd also point out our own Paul Sharp - Rev Pistol was one of the best fundamentals classes I ever took.

Mickey at Carrytrainer has some good info - solid place to begin building a good mindset.

1) because he doesn’t post much here anymore - out of sight, out of mind.

2) Paul still doing firearms training ?

3) for mindset info I would also suggest anything one can find by the late Dr. William Aprill.

[Duces Tecum]

Adam,

Another way to approach this is to consider the goal of the training. It used to be that pistol coaching consisted of only sight alignment, trigger control, and proper breathing. Once those three elements were firmly in hand there was no reason to return after lunch. The student was cast loose. That's no longer the case. We now live in a period of abundance. There are capable people eager to teach their specialty to anybody capable of following the necessary safety rules. We should, I think, take as much advantage of the present situation as we can.

For example:
There is certainly overlap between police and military shooting, but they are not identical skill sets. There are nuances in copping (surviving in the court) that soldiering (surviving the gunfight) finds unnecessary. The education of a rookie cop is and should be much different than a young man fresh out of advanced infantry training. It might be well to at least consider the approach a trainer historically employs before making a final decision. If you think it's possible you might be criminally charged and / or civilly sued following a shooting, an instructor that begins every sentence with "This is how we did it in Fallujah . . . " might not be the best choice.

You might, if you wish, spend some time reading the very helpful AAR forum.
Link: https://pistol-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?9-Class-Reviews-amp-AARs

Thank you,
Duces

[LJP]

Two excellent instructors who’ve been around a long time are Scott Reitz of ITTS and Paul Howe of CSAT. However neither travels anymore so you have to go to them (Los Angeles CA and Nacogdoches TX respectively.

Scott is known for shotgun and was doing vehicle tactics long before anyone called it VCQB. He also teaches pistol and precision rifle. Paul Howe is best known for tactics and rifle/carbine and also does pistol.

Indeed. I was remiss in failing to mention Paul Howe. Took my first carbine class at his place.

[MVS]

Why Gabe White isn't at the top of this list is beyond me... Mr_White

.

Indeed, I have trained with a ton of people and Gabe really stands out as having one of the best run classes I have ever been to. That being said I think Pressburg will be next for me.

[Wendell]

Has Kelly Venden retired?

[HCM]

Has Kelly Venden retired?

Not “retired” but he’s in Europe for a few years on a GOV / MIL training contract so no open enrollment.

[Artemas2]

Mas Ayoob Legal stuff and entry level shooting skills
Aaron Cowan Pistol RDS and Force on force
John Defrense Rifle and force on force

Steve Fisher ...for everything I guess:cool:
I do have a soft spot for Steve, I took his shotgun and then his 2 day pistol class over one long weekend. His teaching methods lead to a lot of my "Aha!" moments.
It's been 4-5 years now. I still go back to my notes from that class when I have an issue with something, because he probably already told me how to fix it on my own.

[Yung]

John Johnston, Melody Lauer, and Chris Cypert of Citizens Defense Research.
https://www.eventbrite.com/o/citizens-defense-research-11191482809

Tim Herron.
http://timherronshooting.com/index.html

[David S.]

Hmmmm, if only there was a website for this.

[Adam]

Hmmmm, if only there was a website for this.

*Gasp* Thanks!

[David S.]

:cool:

It's not exhaustive, but it's a good start. There are dozens of other solid instructors that I'm working to get them added. I just need their thumbs up.

Paul Howe, Larry Mudgett, Bill Blowers, Centrifuge Training, Super Dave Harrington and Chuck Pressburg are a few examples of guys not listed that I hope to train with in the future.

I really like John Murphy's (FPF Training) coursework for a broad survey of personal defense, including the shooting. IMO, it's the "if you could only take one class" class.

[ssb]

Have trained with:

Tom Givens (pistol, shotgun)
Lee Weems (pistol, shotgun)
Randy Harris (pistol, informal shotgun and rifle)
Karl Rehn (pistol, FOF)
Steve Fisher (RDS pistol)
John Murphy (personal defense tactics)

I can recommend them all for the above areas. As said above, Murphy’s class is probably the best “if you can only have one” option. Karl Rehn offers an excellent FOF environment for private citizens and plus he lets you pretend to rob liquor stores. I was pleasantly surprised (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?42859-Steve-Fisher-Sentinel-Concepts-RDS-Handgun) with the quality of Steve Fisher’s instruction.

[Mr_White]

Why Gabe White isn't at the top of this list is beyond me... Mr_White

I'd also point out our own Paul Sharp - Rev Pistol was one of the best fundamentals classes I ever took.

Mickey at Carrytrainer has some good info - solid place to begin building a good mindset.

I couldn't find a bowing or hat off emoticon, but... many thanks Les! I deeply appreciate your very kind praise.

[45dotACP]

I've trained with Gabe and Tim Herron.

They were both outstanding classes and I learned a lot of very useful things from them.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[PD Sgt.]

Of instructors I have personally trained with:

Mike Pannone - incredible depth of experience as well as understanding of the science/physiology of shooting.
Ernest Langdon - particularly regarding DA/SA, few with his level of experience teaching.
Larry Vickers - a bit arrogant, but I left with a much better understanding of trigger control than I came in with.
Pat Macnamera - I didn’t feel like I was being instructed, but I learned a lot.
John McFee - the pistol diagnostics on video is very helpful, it’s not what you think you did, you can see what you actually did.

[paherne]

Erick Gelhaus of Cougar Mountain Solutions.

[Sauer Koch]

Of people I’ve trained with, my very short list is:

Darryl Bolke
Gabe White
Craig Douglas
*each is my favorite, for different reasons.

My wife & I will be training again with Darryl again at the end of the month, and I plan to train with Craig & Gabe again as well.
Ive never trained with Ernest Langdon, or Tom Givens, but hope to in the future.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Rehn, Givens, Ayoob
Add
Claude Werner
Dave Spaulding

[43Under]

Schools/Instructors I've trained with:

Paul Howe (CSAT)
Mike Pannone
Bill Rapier
Kyle Defoor
Tom Givens
Jeff Gonzales
Shrek McPhee
John Murphy
Will Petty
Mas Ayoob
Greg Ellifritz
Chuck Haggard
Craig Douglas
Steve Fisher
Tim Chandler
Ashton Ray
Green Ops
Karl Rehn
Practically Tactical/Defensive Elements
Joe Weyer
Darryl Bolke
Kelly McCann
Jason Kelly
Suarez International
Tom Perroni
Ben DeWalt

(Damn! Why am I not a Grand Master???). Not all were handgun (or even firearms) courses.

Anyway, I'd recommend them all (except Suarez). Some more than others though. Ones that really clicked for me were Givens, Murphy, Howe, Pannone, Ellifritz, Chandler/Ray, Craig Douglas, and, the odd ones here, the PracTac crew. I haven't seen anyone else in this thread mention them, as I guess their following is still rather small. But, I gotta say, I did their Force on Force class last year (called "Who Are You With a Gun?".....link to my blog's AAR is here on this site in the class reviews section), and now, about a year after I took it, I have to regard it as probably the best class I have ever taken, and I'm currently signed up to take it again in July. While these guys regard themselves as "nobodies", they have the benefit of some great mentors including Will Petty, Joe Weyer, and a guy who often appears on their podcasts (and is one of my mentors as well as a mentor of many others on my list above), "Coach Gary". So it's not like they're coming up with stuff out of thin air. I honestly used to be a little put off by their sort of "immature" nature on their podcasts, but they are definitely maturing AND are gifted teachers (side note: I'm a teacher by trade). So I thought I'd throw some love their way (not affiliated with them except as a paying customer).

[Archer1440]

People I have learned from in-person, in no particular order, and possibly missing a few, who I have learned much from in the past 30 years:

Larry Mudgett
Ed Head
Jeff Cooper
Erick Gelhaus
Pat Rogers
Il-ling New
Walter Wilkinson
Randy Cain
Eric Olds
Joseph Knapp
Joe Avila
Freddie Blish
Lew Gosnell
Dave Hartman
Steve Hendricks
Larry Landers
Charlie McNeese
Joe Nassetta
Steve Tarani
Randy Watt

Every one of those people would be on my list of who I would want to have my back, if the red flag were flown.

[RJ]

From a "value for money" point of view, the three days I spent at Tactical Conference in Memphis in 2016 were outstanding. Being new to shooting at the time it was like drinking from a fire hose. I probably hold the record for subsequent failed attempts to attend subsequent conferences due to circumstances beyond my control, unfortunately (3).

I've taken Tom Givens Combative Pistol class twice, in June 2017 and March 2020. I would recommend Tom's class unreservedly for any safe, fairly new to shooting person, especially for civilian concealed carry. Tom is an outstanding teacher and his curriculum is densely packed and hugely relevant to daily self defense with a gun.

I trained with Gabe two times, one at a private class in Clackamas and once in his Pistol Shooting Solutions class in Lakeland FL in 2018. It is excellent. Gabe has clearly thought long and hard about what he wants to accomplish in class, and the challenge of the four exercises to earn a pin (I did not, missed a dark pin; had two Dark pin timed standard runs out of the 4 required) really focus your mind. I would like to schedule another class with Gabe if he's in FL again; proof that I am snake bit with scheduling, I had to drop out of the second Gabe class I was in due to overriding work/travel commitments.

I took in a lecture in Tampa from Ed Mireles in 2018 that was absolutely fascinating. As you probably know, Ed was involved in the famous Miami FBI Shootout in 1986. Hearing the story directly from him was spellbinding.

There is one class I would not take again, or at least I would weigh the pros and cons. It was Frank Proctor's Performance Pistol Class in Cresson TX in 2017. While there is no doubt Frank is a high performance shooter, and has a lot of interesting things to say, I felt he was "teaching at the class", rather than "teaching". There was no round accountability. Targets were only replaced each day. I could have missed every shot and no one would notice.

I've heard good things about Tim Herron. I was scheduled for one of his classes in GA early this year, but unfortunately the host canceled unexpectedly.

Besides these, I've taken a number of local Action Pistol classes, as well as a GSW/First Aid class through a first responder.

[Moylan]

In addition to some of the people already mentioned above (Werner, Murphy, Langdon, Douglas), I took a one day class last year with Tatiana Whitlock, and I thought she did a great job. It was an interesting class not very much like other pistol classes I've done, with some unusual things like her "take a chair" lesson and her "yoga with guns" bit, as well as an introductory drill that was kind of mentally painful but very worthwhile.

I'd also say that the OP asked about quality trainers, and while that leads to a natural tendency to mention the best nationally-known folks, I would also say that there are likely to be good people teaching at a more local or regional level. I took a class last year with Defensive Concepts NC, and while the instructor swore more than any man I've ever met, the class was a great value, and the instruction was very good. I just took an Ernest Langdon class that was hosted by a guy who runs a local training company called Fortitude Consulting. He's one of Jedlinski's endorsed red dot instructors. I stood next to him on the line for three days and asked him a couple of questions. While I have not trained with him and hence cannot actually say that his training classes are great (or otherwise), I personally wouldn't hesitate to sign up for one of his classes, based on my experience of him, and my knowledge of his training background and experience. There are other such companies I could mention.

I spent a few years wanting to take a pistol training class but not doing it because of expense, travel, etc, because I was focused on finding a national trainer. Once I went with a local guy, I found a one-day, affordable class in my own town, and that got me going. So I'm a fan of local trainers, just as long as you intelligently vet them ahead of time.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Dave Spaulding has an nice article on training trends: https://www.handgunsmag.com/editorial/firearms-training-or-trends/137773

I recommended him having taken his car oriented class - in AAR.

[TCinVA]

I'll just hop in here and point out that Ashton and I teach more than just shotgun.

We're pretty fair hands at teaching pistol, too. :D

In fact, 360's Performance Pistol is probably the closest thing to accomplishing what AFHF used to do on the market right now...especially the coaching intensive focus of the class. And Ashton is perhaps even a little better at coaching than Todd was.

I don't say that lightly.

[Kanye Wyoming]

I'll just hop in here and point out that Ashton and I teach more than just shotgun.

We're pretty fair hands at teaching pistol, too. :D

In fact, 360's Performance Pistol is probably the closest thing to accomplishing what AFHF used to do on the market right now...especially the coaching intensive focus of the class. And Ashton is perhaps even a little better at coaching than Todd was.

I don't say that lightly.
TCinVA (which I came to learn is not his real name) was one of the AIs at the Rangemaster Instructor class I took last August. He is outstanding. He picked up some very subtle things that needed correction and which I’ve been working on since, largely with success but when I falter I go back to the list I made of the six things he pointed out that I was often f*cking up. If he were an Uber driver he’d get a 5 star rating and a very large tip.

[pangloss]

All of my few training experiences have been very positive, and I can recommend all of these trainers without reservation:

Tom Givens (assisted by John Hearne)
Dave Spaulding
Mas Ayoob
Randy Harris

[rob_s]

Randy Cain

It’s really a shame Randy doesn’t get more attention. I’ve trained with several folks that were big names back when I was training a lot, and Randy’s ability to TEACH is exponentially greater than any I’ve ever had. Gun Skool, government skool, higher education, professional training… period. Then you take more than one class from him and you REALLY start to piece things together. Something you learn in the Practical Rifle class causes you to reflect on, and improve, your pistol shooting. Something you learn in your third Handgun 101 (many, many, very good shooters re-take this class) causes you to reflect on and improve your carbine shooting. and so on.

I’m hoping to get my wife into his Ladies Handgun course later this year. Also a top shelf experience if you have women in your life that are in need of instruction.

I have searched for years for the “post+modern technique” instructor with Randy’s ability to teach, and haven’t found one yet. And in fact have had other folks recommendations for same cause me to call into question their own ability to asses same… or even learn.

[Austin Millbarge]

I’ll second (third?) Erick Gelhaus.

I’ve also had great classes at Gunsite, Thunder Ranch , with Ernest Langdon, and a Steve Fisher.

I’ve kinda avoided celebutrainers and entertrainment as much as possible. Just my opinion.

[Casey]

It’s really a shame Randy doesn’t get more attention. I’ve trained with several folks that were big names back when I was training a lot, and Randy’s ability to TEACH is exponentially greater than any I’ve ever had. Gun Skool, government skool, higher education, professional training… period. Then you take more than one class from him and you REALLY start to piece things together. Something you learn in the Practical Rifle class causes you to reflect on, and improve, your pistol shooting. Something you learn in your third Handgun 101 (many, many, very good shooters re-take this class) causes you to reflect on and improve your carbine shooting. and so on.

I’m hoping to get my wife into his Ladies Handgun course later this year. Also a top shelf experience if you have women in your life that are in need of instruction.

I have searched for years for the “post+modern technique” instructor with Randy’s ability to teach, and haven’t found one yet. And in fact have had other folks recommendations for same cause me to call into question their own ability to asses same… or even learn.

I'll second this. Randy is the guy I would send someone to if they were headed down the righteous path of self-defense training. I've trained with several of the other big name instructors, but I keep going back to Lakeland at least once a year for all the reasons described above. Randy is old-school, but what he teaches works, and I've been pleased to see many of his techniques lining up well with what some more "evolved" instructors are putting out.

Jon Dufresne is another one I wish more people knew about. I've taken two of his classes within the past year and I really dig his style. He's simply a happy guy with a wealth of knowledge and he's very effective at conveying information in a manner that clicks well with me.

[AKDoug]

There is one class I would not take again, or at least I would weigh the pros and cons. It was Frank Proctor's Performance Pistol Class in Cresson TX in 2017. While there is no doubt Frank is a high performance shooter, and has a lot of interesting things to say, I felt he was "teaching at the class", rather than "teaching". There was no round accountability. Targets were only replaced each day. I could have missed every shot and no one would notice.

I agree. I enjoyed Frank as a person, but I was pretty disappointed in the class. I felt the same way about Pat McNamara's class. I did feel pretty good about my classes with Jason Falla. You can see a pretty common theme on these three guys. At the time (a decade ago) I thought the best people to learn from were ex-.mil guys.

A decade later I can now afford to travel outside Alaska to get training and I am paying close attention to this thread for suggestions. I need a class that focuses on good pistol fundamentals and civilian applications of concealed carry.