Hornady's 6mm ARC. Who's all in?

[Tokarev]

As most of you have probably seen, Hornady is making what it calls the 6mm Advanced Rifle Cartridge. This is, in essence, the 6.5 Grendel necked down to .243.

The cartridge has been on the market since last year and seems to be doing okay given the current madness. Barrels and other components are relatively easy to come by as are reloading dies. Really the only parts not easily available are primers, powder or cases. As soon as Federal makes a Fusion load and someone like Starline starts making brass we should be all set.

One obvious source for brass is resized 6.5 Grendel although G brass isn't in abundance right now. Both Whidden and Hornady offer hydraulic form dies for the ARC for reshaping 7.62x39 although that brass isn't really super common either. Plus most AK brass is large primer which may or may not be ideal here.

I like the idea of the 6 ARC as it appears, on paper anyway, to offer a good deal of flexibility to the AR platform. It should be legal (and lethal) as a hunting cartridge and is doing fairly well in competition circles. Hornady is even making a TAP load for law enforcement although I doubt there's much interest in that realm yet. Anyway, it looks like the ARC has a bright future ahead.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/review-hornady-6mm-arc/

I recently bought a 16" Faxon barrel and have an upper put together although that's about all I've done to this point. I have a few boxes of Hornady Black but haven't shot any of it yet.

What does the hive mind think? Is the ARC the cartridge that keeps the AR viable well into the 21st Century or is it just another AR Wildcat in a market awash with oddball chamberings?


Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[littlejerry]

I'm still on the sidelines.

The 6 ARC looks like the best choice for getting out to 1000 yards in an AR. Flatter and less drift than the Grendel with more down range energy than 224 Valk. Also seems to be a good hunting option.

At the end of the day it's just another wildcat, but may have a bit more staying power due to its popularity in the long range crowd. There are a bunch of 6mm wildcats for competition and I've seen a few bolt guns over on SH being chambered in the ARC. It's an efficient cartridge with good barrel life and allegedly easy to reload for.

When the ammo market comes back I'll bite. For now though I'm not ready to spend $2 per round on a short 6mm.

[Tokarev]

The 6 ARC looks like the best choice for getting out to 1000 yards in an AR. It's an efficient cartridge...easy to reload...

I wonder where these folks are getting their brass. Probably from shooting $2.00 factory ammo first...

Other options for brass should include fire forming .220 Russian and possibly 6mm PPC although these aren't super common and/or cheap.

[littlejerry]

I wonder where these folks are getting their brass. Probably from shooting $2.00 factory ammo first...

Other options for brass should include fire forming .220 Russian and possibly 6mm PPC although these aren't super common and/or cheap.

Following the threads at SH it seems like most people posting range reports got into it early before the shortage, but there are also people forming Grendel brass which they probably already had a stockpile of.

ETA: I'm also very interested to see what people can do with lighter monolithic and bonded hunting rounds. Federal sells a 95gr .243 Fusion and Barnes has an 80 gr TTSX along with and 85gr TSX. I'd bet the 80/85s would have a respectable muzzle velocity even from a 16" barrel and do nicely on medium game.

[Tokarev]

Federal sells a 95gr .243 Fusion and Barnes has an 80 gr TTSX along with and 85gr TSX. I'd bet the 80/85s would have a respectable muzzle velocity even from a 16" barrel and do nicely on medium game.

Agreed. Aside from cost, something like a Nosler 95gr Ballistic Silvertip or 80gr TTSX BT would likely be a great "all around" bullet.

[Borderland]

For most hunters and target shooters it comes down to cost and availability of ammo or components. What the industry is going through right now is going to kill a lot of new cartridges, no matter how good they are. Until military and LE move away from 5.56 I don't think a 6 or 6.5 mm cartridge has much of a chance in the civilian AR market.

My opinion is the firearms and ammo industry will downsize to a few of the most popular cartridges because of the demand. People already own millions of 5.56 rifles and many have stopped shooting because of the price of ammo. 0.60/rd is no joke.

[SecondsCount]

6ARC is going to stay around. There are already several cartridges on the market that are very similar- 6mmLBC, 6mmAR, but Hornady knows how to get these new cartridges to fly off the shelves. I believe it will displace the 224 Valkyrie and eat into the 6.5 Grendel market.

I'm a huge 6mm fan and always wanted to take a 22 Nosler and do something similar because with the rebated rim, you wouldn't need to change the bolt. There are guys doing it and getting decent velocities out of their bolt action setups.

[Wondering Beard]

I think you will all find this article interesting: Review: Hornady 6mm ARC (https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/review-hornady-6mm-arc/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=insider&utm_campaign=0621)

It covers a bit of history, a lot of numbers and a bit of hunting.

This new cartridge looks real good.

[Tokarev]

For most hunters and target shooters it comes down to cost and availability of ammo or components. What the industry is going through right now is going to kill a lot of new cartridges, no matter how good they are. Until military and LE move away from 5.56 I don't think a 6 or 6.5 mm cartridge has much of a chance in the civilian AR market.

My opinion is the firearms and ammo industry will downsize to a few of the most popular cartridges because of the demand. People already own millions of 5.56 rifles and many have stopped shooting because of the price of ammo. 0.60/rd is no joke.

It'll be a hard sell to get LE, as a whole, to move to the 6 ARC. Most LE rifle engagements are relatively close. This includes LE snipers. With that said, the ARC may appeal to a game warden who may have to dispatch animals and/or a rural officer who might need a bit more "reach" than .223 Rem. The ARC also may work okay against car bodies and windshields so it may have a place with state troopers, etc.

For the civilian side, I guess LE too, cheap practice ammo is pretty much a must. PPU and/or S&B will need to get on board. Steel cased stuff will also pretty much guarantee the 6 ARC's success.


6ARC is going to stay around. There are already several cartridges on the market that are very similar- 6mmLBC, 6mmAR, but Hornady knows how to get these new cartridges to fly off the shelves. I believe it will displace the 224 Valkyrie and eat into the 6.5 Grendel market.

I'm a huge 6mm fan and always wanted to take a 22 Nosler and do something similar because with the rebated rim, you wouldn't need to change the bolt. There are guys doing it and getting decent velocities out of their bolt action setups.

I always liked the idea of the 6mm Hagar. I actually kind of wonder why Hornady didn't go this route for the ARC especially since they already make dies and brass for the Hagar.


I think you will all find this article interesting: Review: Hornady 6mm ARC (https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/review-hornady-6mm-arc/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=insider&utm_campaign=0621)

It covers a bit of history, a lot of numbers and a bit of hunting.

This new cartridge looks real good.

Yep. I linked that article in my first post. Good stuff!

[Bergeron]

There's a lot that I find attractive about the cartridge; bullet weight, muzzle velocity, exterior ballistics, use of an existing bolt face- but I'm not sure if I favor it in an AR-15. Those x39 bolt faces are thin, and while I'm not concerned about catastrophic failure, I am suspicious of long term bolt face durability in the small frame bolt face. I'd also prefer to be able to get 30 round polymer mags.

I think this round would be perfect for an "AR-12", mid-sized between our traditional large and small frame guns. It also seems like it would be fun on one of those quick-change barrel, belt fed HK roller locks that costs like a decent used car.

[Shotgun]

I am in the Grendel crowd. I think target shooters are going to prefer the ARC for long range shooting; ARC ballistics are better than the Grendel. However, it's hard to beat the Grendel for pigs and predator hunting. I do not speak from any experience with the ARC. I hear of some Grendel shooters who have had some fun shooting the ARC, but they prefer the Grendel for pigs. The extra bullet weight of the Grendel is preferred.

[Tokarev]

There's a lot that I find attractive about the cartridge; bullet weight, muzzle velocity, exterior ballistics, use of an existing bolt face- but I'm not sure if I favor it in an AR-15. Those x39 bolt faces are thin, and while I'm not concerned about catastrophic failure, I am suspicious of long term bolt face durability in the small frame bolt face. I'd also prefer to be able to get 30 round polymer mags.

I think this round would be perfect for an "AR-12", mid-sized between our traditional large and small frame guns. It also seems like it would be fun on one of those quick-change barrel, belt fed HK roller locks that costs like a decent used car.Mad Dog Weapons Systems is (or was, as may be the case) working on selling a "mid-sized" receiver set based on the LWRC 6.8 pattern. His idea was to use a metal mag and load the various 6, 6.5 and .270 Wildcats to 2.35" or whatever would be possible on the longer receiver sets. This gets pretty proprietary and would be pretty niche but it would open up a good deal of possibility for some interesting high performance cartridges.

A similar option would be the CMMG Mutant. That is an "in between" AR that's based around an AR10 bolt and 7.62x39 magazine.

But neither of these really meet the Army's specs for the 6 ARC as I understand them.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Tokarev]

I am in the Grendel crowd. I think target shooters are going to prefer the ARC for long range shooting; ARC ballistics are better than the Grendel. However, it's hard to beat the Grendel for pigs and predator hunting. I do not speak from any experience with the ARC. I hear of some Grendel shooters who have had some fun shooting the ARC, but they prefer the Grendel for pigs. The extra bullet weight of the Grendel is preferred.Bullet weights get pretty close I think. There are people loading the Berger 115 VLD Hunting in the ARC now. I think I saw on one of the forums that someone is also messing with the Nosler 115 RDF.

Is there anything for the Grendel heavier than 120-123?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Wondering Beard]

Yep. I linked that article in my first post. Good stuff!


Sorry about that.

That's what happens when one reads too fast. :-(

[Shotgun]

Is there anything for the Grendel heavier than 120-123?

Yes. There is a 129 SST. Look at alexanderarms.com -- not that any are available.

[OlongJohnson]

There's a lot that I find attractive about the cartridge; bullet weight, muzzle velocity, exterior ballistics, use of an existing bolt face- but I'm not sure if I favor it in an AR-15. Those x39 bolt faces are thin, and while I'm not concerned about catastrophic failure, I am suspicious of long term bolt face durability in the small frame bolt face. I'd also prefer to be able to get 30 round polymer mags.

This is where I am. I was recently reminded by doing a lap around the "would that really be better than..." rabbit hole that included 6.5G. Officially-approved max pressures are held modest in the G due to the large case head and issues with that in an AR. Smaller cases that can go to higher pressure will launch the same weight bullet just as fast, and may not have the potential for feeding issues. I don't see how making it a 6mm is going to change that.

I like the 6.8, I mean .30 Remington-based model better in an AR.

I do think it would be cool if someone who has the capacity to get commercial legs under it would do a Commie-size casehead, 40-ish grain 6.5 or 6.8 cartridge in an AR-12ish rifle. But there's a whole other thread where we discussed that.

[Clusterfrack]

My 16” lightweight Grendel is the most fun rifle I own. It is good on steel out to 1150yds, has basically unlimited barrel and brass life, and is easy and relatively cheap to reload. Being limited to bullets like the 123 Match King is actually an advantage to me: no BS and fiddling with loads. One load. That’s it.

The 6 ARC does look versatile. But I’m not interested.

[Tokarev]

The 6 ARC does look versatile. But I’m not interested.

That's because you're stuck in the 2010s, man! It is 2021. You need to get with the times!

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Tokarev]

Here's some velocity data I stole from Hornady.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210608/8a1291190867d697b9914cabfe1af951.jpg

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Tokarev]

White Oak Armament's take on the 6mm ARC as of about a year ago. I wonder if the opinion has changed. True that the 7.62x39 or Grendel bolt face is pretty thin but are bolt failures all that common? Heck, I've seen .223 bolts fail. I guess nothing lasts forever exception M1 Garand bolts....

https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/blog/hornady-s-new-6mm-arc.html

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Hambo]

What does the hive mind think? Is the ARC the cartridge that keeps the AR viable well into the 21st Century or is it just another AR Wildcat in a market awash with oddball chamberings?


Like any real wildcatter, I'm going to wait to see which one survives. In 5-10 years, I'll become fascinated by the ones that didn't and scrounge dies and form brass, while lecturing on why you all chose poorly.

[Bergeron]

True that the 7.62x39 or Grendel bolt face is pretty thin but are bolt failures all that common? Heck, I've seen .223 bolts fail. I guess nothing lasts forever exception M1 Garand bolts....

https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/blog/hornady-s-new-6mm-arc.html



While an AR bolt really is a wear item, and should treated as such, I don’t like the idea of less life than a 5.56 bolt. The improvements to bolt design and material such as offered by KAC, LMT, and JP are encouraging, but we’re still butting up against materials science and physics with a .440” bolt head in an AR-15 small frame rifle. There’s no opportunity to go to a M855A1 pressure spec, at all, and like WOA was saying, the 52kpsi peak chamber pressure is a direct comment on an AR-15 .440” bolt.

There is a lot to like with the 6ARC, and it would be fun to play with one, no matter the rifle design. I’m sure people with them will greatly enjoy their rifles, and I do think it’s a great was to have a carbine that’ll also be good for use on light-skinned medium game, particularly for states with a 6mm floor.

I still would only want it in a stronger gun, with a larger (and hopefully polymer) magazine. I sure don’t expect any manufacturers to cater to my weird wants, though, and I do think that 6ARC shooters will enjoy their guns, and I really would prefer the cartridge flourish.

[Tokarev]

While an AR bolt really is a wear item, and should treated as such, I don’t like the idea of less life than a 5.56 bolt. The improvements to bolt design and material such as offered by KAC, LMT, and JP are encouraging, but we’re still butting up against materials science and physics with a .440” bolt head in an AR-15 small frame rifle. There’s no opportunity to go to a M855A1 pressure spec, at all, and like WOA was saying, the 52kpsi peak chamber pressure is a direct comment on an AR-15 .440” bolt.

There is a lot to like with the 6ARC, and it would be fun to play with one, no matter the rifle design. I’m sure people with them will greatly enjoy their rifles, and I do think it’s a great was to have a carbine that’ll also be good for use on light-skinned medium game, particularly for states with a 6mm floor.

I still would only want it in a stronger gun, with a larger (and hopefully polymer) magazine. I sure don’t expect any manufacturers to cater to my weird wants, though, and I do think that 6ARC shooters will enjoy their guns, and I really would prefer the cartridge flourish.Here's a stronger gun. At least I think it probably is:

https://www.ruger.com/products/miniThirty/specSheets/5854.html

This would be, in theory, nothing more than a barrel swap although the curved 7.62x39 mag may not work well with the more straight walled ARC case.

Accuracy Systems shows 6 ARC as an available option although I wonder how many he's actually converted:

https://www.ruger-mini-14-firearms.com/ruger_mini_prices.php

Regarding plastic mags; how well does 6.5 Grendel work in the 6.8 Magpul mags? It might be possible to put a 6 ARC together on that receiver set although you'd still be saddled with the AR15 bolt.

Maybe this is all much ado about nothing as I assume Hornady knows what they're doing and had a good reason for not basing the 6 ARC off the 6.8 case. Time will tell, I guess.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Tokarev]

The Mini-30 sort of got me wondering about bolt guns.

Ruger has two options that should be readily converted. One is a 7.62x39 that feeds from Mini-30 mags:

https://www.ruger.com/products/americanRifleRanch/specSheets/16976.html

The other is a 6.5 Grendel that feeds from AR mags:

https://www.ruger.com/products/americanRifleRanch/specSheets/36926.html

Either format might work although the AR format would seem to be the easier choice. Add a Magpul or MDT stock and you'd have a fairly light, short and handy bolt gun.

Does anyone make AI pattern mags that work with Grendel sized cases?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Shotgun]

Like any real wildcatter, I'm going to wait to see which one survives. In 5-10 years, I'll become fascinated by the ones that didn't and scrounge dies and form brass, while lecturing on why you all chose poorly.

Ha! Good post, and isn't that the truth. It's seems like most of the Grendel guys, and now the ARC guys, enjoy building their own rifles. That's a hobby unto itself. They talk about which of this and that is best for their builds. Most also seem to enjoy reloading and tweaking their load recipes to get some perceived level of performance increase. We have an element in the shooting sports who like tinkering with their guns and loads as much as shooting I think. Grendel and ARC fit those guys to a T.

[OlongJohnson]

Like any real wildcatter, I'm going to wait to see which one survives. In 5-10 years, I'll become fascinated by the ones that didn't and scrounge dies and form brass, while lecturing on why you all chose poorly.

But you'll be running them with a 10-inch Contender barrel, so they'll all underperform and put a flash-bang in your face anyway.



The Mini-30 sort of got me wondering about bolt guns.

The Howa Mini is another good option chambered in 7.62 Commie and 6.5G. Especially the Carbon Stalker version that is trickling into the market, if you want to go that way. Much smoother, nicer action than any lower-cost Ruger. There are 1.5 sources for hinged-floorplate bottom metal to make it more carryable in the field, and one of them also makes a 17.5-oz stock if you don't go for the factory lightweight stock. There has been noise in the past about the 6.5G having feeding issues with factory mags, but I recently went down this rabbit hole and didn't see much recent. The hive mind on 65Gforum may have figured it out.

In an AR platform, a 6x45 or .25-45 Sharps may nip at the heels of the ARC as a hunting option with a standard bolt face.

ETA:
I just checked Hodgdon data, and .257 Kimber sends a given bullet weight considerably faster than the 6mm ARC. People who do the .25-204 wildcat use .257 Kimber load data, as it's only tiny differences and ultimately the same parent case. Basically equals the .250 Savage. A 6-.204 would likely be similar to the 6 ARC or maybe a little better. The .204 case comes out a little long for mag length in an AR unless you're shooting light/short bullets, but works well in the hinged floor plate setups for the Howa.

[Tokarev]

But you'll be running them with a 10-inch Contender barrel, so they'll all underperform and put a flash-bang in your face anyway.




The Howa Mini is another good option chambered in 7.62 Commie and 6.5G. Especially the Carbon Stalker version that is trickling into the market, if you want to go that way. Much smoother, nicer action than any lower-cost Ruger. There are 1.5 sources for hinged-floorplate bottom metal to make it more carryable in the field, and one of them also makes a 17.5-oz stock if you don't go for the factory lightweight stock. There has been noise in the past about the 6.5G having feeding issues with factory mags, but I recently went down this rabbit hole and didn't see much recent. The hive mind on 65Gforum may have figured it out.

In an AR platform, a 6x45 or .25-45 Sharps may nip at the heels of the ARC as a hunting option with a standard bolt face.For 223 based Wildcats I'm pretty happy with my .277 Wolverine. I use it in a 12.5" AR and am getting 2350 fps with a 90gr Gold Dot. Users running 18" barrels or whatever are getting around 2850 fps from these lengths.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[littlejerry]

I think it was SLG who originally brought up 6.5 Grendel on PF. He was pretty clear in describing it as a hobby gun for hunting and nothing serious use. I think that's a good description and realistic expectation of Grendel and the ARC. Hobby cartridges for long range and or hunting.

[SecondsCount]

I think it was SLG who originally brought up 6.5 Grendel on PF. He was pretty clear in describing it as a hobby gun for hunting and nothing serious use. I think that's a good description and realistic expectation of Grendel and the ARC. Hobby cartridges for long range and or hunting.

The Department of Defense must have needed some 6ARC for their hobby of shooting bad guys in the face when they adopted it.

6ARC should have less bolt thrust than 6.5G, which was the issue early on with the Grendel.

[Borderland]

I am in the Grendel crowd. I think target shooters are going to prefer the ARC for long range shooting; ARC ballistics are better than the Grendel. However, it's hard to beat the Grendel for pigs and predator hunting. I do not speak from any experience with the ARC. I hear of some Grendel shooters who have had some fun shooting the ARC, but they prefer the Grendel for pigs. The extra bullet weight of the Grendel is preferred.

Pigs might be the future of hunting, at least where the state can generate some revenue from it.

[Tokarev]

I think it was SLG who originally brought up 6.5 Grendel on PF. He was pretty clear in describing it as a hobby gun for hunting and nothing serious use. I think that's a good description and realistic expectation of Grendel and the ARC. Hobby cartridges for long range and or hunting.

Except the ARC was apparently developed at the request of the US Army. It could have been developed for AMU but it sounds like it was spec'ed out for an SF unit. It will be interesting to see if military use easily translates into civilian use as was the case with 308 and 223.

I helped out with an LVPO course last fall up in Phoenix. We were talking scopes and calibers. One of the officers in attendance said his SWAT team had recently attended training with one of the SF units. I forget now which one he said. Anyway, this unit was apparently using 11.5" uppers alongside 18" in 6 ARC and was reporting good terminal effects from both lengths.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Borderland]

Like any real wildcatter, I'm going to wait to see which one survives. In 5-10 years, I'll become fascinated by the ones that didn't and scrounge dies and form brass, while lecturing on why you all chose poorly.

In a thousand years an excavation in the US won't reveal any widespread use of 6mm cartridges. They will be like fish bones in the Norse villages of Greenland.

[OlongJohnson]

The Department of Defense must have needed some 6ARC for their hobby of shooting bad guys in the face when they adopted it.

6ARC should have less bolt thrust than 6.5G, which was the issue early on with the Grendel.

Am I wrong that bolt thrust = pressure * case head area (approximately)? 6ARC and 6.5G would be the same at the same pressure.


I am in the Grendel crowd. I think target shooters are going to prefer the ARC for long range shooting; ARC ballistics are better than the Grendel. However, it's hard to beat the Grendel for pigs and predator hunting. I do not speak from any experience with the ARC. I hear of some Grendel shooters who have had some fun shooting the ARC, but they prefer the Grendel for pigs. The extra bullet weight of the Grendel is preferred.

The 6.8 guys will argue about pigs and predator hunting. The 90gr TTSX was designed to optimize the cartridge, and a rifle-length barrel sends it ~2900 fps. And there's Bill Wilson with his .300 HAM'R...

[littlejerry]

Am I wrong that bolt thrust = pressure * case head area (approximately)? 6ARC and 6.5G would be the same at the same pressure.



The 6.8 guys will argue about pigs and predator hunting. The 90gr TTSX was designed to optimize the cartridge, and a rifle-length barrel sends it ~2900 fps. And there's Bill Wilson with his .300 HAM'R...

You are correct about bolt thrust. Although one key component in AR bolt life is chamber pressure during bolt unlocking. I have no idea how 6.5G, 6ARC, and 5.56 compare. This is also build dependent with gas port size, location, and barrel length determining the timing/pressure.

On paper the 6.8 and 6.5 are so close it doesn't matter out to ~200-300 yards. The key advantage of 6.5 and more so the 6ARC are high BC projectiles which provide both the improved teminal performance of many wildcats but also improved LR hit probability over 5.56.

[Shotgun]

I think it was SLG who originally brought up 6.5 Grendel on PF. He was pretty clear in describing it as a hobby gun for hunting and nothing serious use. I think that's a good description and realistic expectation of Grendel and the ARC. Hobby cartridges for long range and or hunting.

That is exactly why I have a Grendel. I wanted something better than 5.56 for pigs primarily but also something that I could shoot long range for fun. I will never be a long range competitor, but it is fun to shoot some long range steel from time to time. The Grendel is perfect for that. Some of the ARC guys may take issue with their new cartridge of the day not being a serious long range shooter.


You are correct about bolt thrust. Although one key component in AR bolt life is chamber pressure during bolt unlocking. I have no idea how 6.5G, 6ARC, and 5.56 compare. This is also build dependent with gas port size, location, and barrel length determining the timing/pressure.

On paper the 6.8 and 6.5 are so close it doesn't matter out to ~200-300 yards. The key advantage of 6.5 and more so the 6ARC are high BC projectiles which provide both the improved terminal performance of many wildcats but also improved LR hit probability over 5.56.

Some are bringing up a bolt face issue, but reliability is of small concern in a hobby rifle. Yes, I want the rifle to run, but the only risk I run is a spoiled hunt. Besides, and mine hasn't reproduced yet, I am learning that Grendels (and perhaps ARCs) tend to breed like rabbits. So, there would likely be another rifle along for a hunt, even if only 5.56 before another Grendel shows up in the gun cabinet. Absent the zombie apocalypse and running out of other options, I would not be using my Grendel for defense.

[Hambo]

But you'll be running them with a 10-inch Contender barrel, so they'll all underperform and put a flash-bang in your face anyway.


#30HerrettMasterRace

[OfficeCat]

6mm ARC vs 6.5 Grendel feels a lot like 270 vs 30/06 circa the 1920s. Neck the case down a little for a little more velocity and a little flatter trajectory with bullets os similar sectional density. Both sides will have their proponents but the differences will probably be more pronounced on paper and in the mind than in the field.

That said I'm a Grendel fan and will stick with it. Everything's a compromise and the Grendel is the best I've found to meet my personal and arbitrary specifications. It delivers the minimum bullet weight, diameter, sectional density I'm comfortable with in a sufficiently light and handy package to carry into the woods for use on deer primarily within 100 yards but with the ability to reach out 200-250 yards should thay occasion arise, although in nearly 40 years of hunting it hasn't yet. The ability to break through bone and reliably penetrate are prioritized over velocity and explosive tissue disruption as mimimal meat damage is also specified.

The Grendel with a traditional 120 grain spitzer at around 2450 fps is kind of the sweet spot for me and has thus far performed to spec on the two biggest whitetails I've ever shot. All these specificatitions of mine are based on my own highly subjective values and opinions and may not correspond to anyone else's experiences but I'm pretty satisfied with the Grendel.

[Flamingo]

I am in the process of building a 6 ARC or 6.5 Grendel. I bought some magazines, a BCG, an upper receiver, and a lower. I think the deal breaker for me will be finding a good barrel for a decent price. I also will need a decent LPVO for it.

[alamo5000]

I just finished out my 6ARC upper. Well, almost. I am sorting out some issues related to the optic (IE I need to buy a new one now).

I am on board. I think this will add a whole new dimension into the AR capabilities. Basically doubling the range (or more) is a big deal. Also I don't know if you've seen them but check out some SBR numbers. A 12.5" will be a banger.

[Skinner Precision, LLC]

Am I wrong that bolt thrust = pressure * case head area (approximately)? 6ARC and 6.5G would be the same at the same pressure.



The 6.8 guys will argue about pigs and predator hunting. The 90gr TTSX was designed to optimize the cartridge, and a rifle-length barrel sends it ~2900 fps. And there's Bill Wilson with his .300 HAM'R...

You are not wrong the regards to total bolt thrust-it will be very similar for the ARC and Grendel as long as the PSI is the same, the Time vs Pressure curve may be slightly different but not something that an individual should/would worry about IMO.
As someone who has both 6mmARC and 6.5 grendel reamers in inventory, and has seen and used "PPC bolthead" 6.X mm wildcat AR's in play and competition for quite a while- the allure is strong in regards to the performance vs other options in the AR 15 platform but it comes at a cost in regards to the service life of bolt heads and the reliability of the associated magazines. Much like a 1911/2011 may be the perfect answer for the individual, the technical problems associated with large numbers of them makes more widespread agency issue more "Problematic" without cubic support dollars. YMMV

[Tokarev]

You are not wrong the regards to total bolt thrust-it will be very similar for the ARC and Grendel as long as the PSI is the same, the Time vs Pressure curve may be slightly different but not something that an individual should/would worry about IMO.
As someone who has both 6mmARC and 6.5 grendel reamers in inventory, and has seen and used "PPC bolthead" 6.X mm wildcat AR's in play and competition for quite a while- the allure is strong in regards to the performance vs other options in the AR 15 platform but it comes at a cost in regards to the service life of bolt heads and the reliability of the associated magazines. Much like a 1911/2011 may be the perfect answer for the individual, the technical problems associated with large numbers of them makes more widespread agency issue more "Problematic" without cubic support dollars. YMMVI've seen much posted on various boards WRT feeding issues with the various Grendel mags. Seems this (and the theoretically stronger bolt) are issues most pointed out by 6.8 SPC guys.

Hornady ballisticians mention the feeding rumors in some YouTube videos when the ARC was launched. They said they had no feeding problems when developing the cartridge using a variety of mags.

Speaking of 6.8; it was some years back I attended a VTAC Street Fighter class and used a 6.8 AR. Kyle kind of turned his nose up at me and gave me a hard time. Not in an unfriendly way. Anyway, part of the class involved shooting various parts of an automobile and my 6.8 with 110gr Pro Hunter bullets worked better than the various 5.56 guns in attendance. Kyle had to eat a bit of crow after this...

One thing he did mention was that a 5.56 rifle can have a barrel plugged with dirt that might cause the case to rupture and/or bolt carrier to fail but this wouldn't likely seriously hurt the shooter. He said this was NOT the case with 6.8. Since the exterior dimensions are the same but the internal dimensions are not a plugged barrel may result in a more catastrophic result. I never tested him on this but I certainly take his word.

This above may be why Hornady chose the 52K pressure limit.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Bergeron]

I think that the issue here is that cartridge development is outpacing semi-auto gun development. A gun really suited to 6ARC would need a bigger magwell and larger, stronger bolt. At that point the 22Grendel, 6ARC, and 6.5Grendel could be loaded to 5.56mm+P sort of pressure loads, and load heavy for caliber bullets long in the cases, and stuff them into new-design magazines. The problem is that it the gun would have to be bigger, in at least some dimensions, than the small frame AR. To keep weight from exceeding that of the small frame AR, such a Optimized-x39 sort of gun would need to use more modern materials, such as aluminum-magnesium-lithium alloys, carbon fiber, and polymer in creative ways, which means it would be expensive.

What kind of performance would be needed, or what kind of customers, would buy into a rifle 2-3 (or 5!) times more expensive than a 5.56mm?

As much as I like the Grendel, and the ARC, if I were going to have carbine/rifle for strictly antipersonnel purposes, and I had put 5.56x45mm out of consideration, I would probably actually lean towards 22Grendel, with 80+ grain bullets, loaded out long. The 6mm and 6.5mm versions seem more useful when medium game or very maximum range start to matter.

[Shotgun]

6mm ARC vs 6.5 Grendel feels a lot like 270 vs 30/06 circa the 1920s.

Too bad Jack O'Connor and Elmer Keith aren't here to resolve this and tell us why the Grendel or ARC is so much better than the other.

[OlongJohnson]

Jack would just say to get an AR-10 in 7-08.

[Caballoflaco]

I think that the issue here is that cartridge development is outpacing semi-auto gun development. A gun really suited to 6ARC would need a bigger magwell and larger, stronger bolt. At that point the 22Grendel, 6ARC, and 6.5Grendel could be loaded to 5.56mm+P sort of pressure loads, and load heavy for caliber bullets long in the cases, and stuff them into new-design magazines. The problem is that it the gun would have to be bigger, in at least some dimensions, than the small frame AR. To keep weight from exceeding that of the small frame AR, such a Optimized-x39 sort of gun would need to use more modern materials, such as aluminum-magnesium-lithium alloys, carbon fiber, and polymer in creative ways, which means it would be expensive.

What kind of performance would be needed, or what kind of customers, would buy into a rifle 2-3 (or 5!) times more expensive than a 5.56mm?

As much as I like the Grendel, and the ARC, if I were going to have carbine/rifle for strictly antipersonnel purposes, and I had put 5.56x45mm out of consideration, I would probably actually lean towards 22Grendel, with 80+ grain bullets, loaded out long. The 6mm and 6.5mm versions seem more useful when medium game or very maximum range start to matter.

Agreed, squeezing cartridges that can work, but are just a bit too big into an AR is a suboptimal solution. In addition to bolthead size, nobody who was trying to maximize reliability would design a firearm from the ground up that stacks rounds in the mags like we see with the x39 or .30 Remington based cartridges.

[Skinner Precision, LLC]

I've seen much posted on various boards WRT feeding issues with the various Grendel mags. Seems this (and the theoretically stronger bolt) are issues most pointed out by 6.8 SPC guys.

Hornady ballisticians mention the feeding rumors in some YouTube videos when the ARC was launched. They said they had no feeding problems when developing the cartridge using a variety of mags.

Speaking of 6.8; it was some years back I attended a VTAC Street Fighter class and used a 6.8 AR. Kyle kind of turned his nose up at me and gave me a hard time. Not in an unfriendly way. Anyway, part of the class involved shooting various parts of an automobile and my 6.8 with 110gr Pro Hunter bullets worked better than the various 5.56 guns in attendance. Kyle had to eat a bit of crow after this...

One thing he did mention was that a 5.56 rifle can have a barrel plugged with dirt that might cause the case to rupture and/or bolt carrier to fail but this wouldn't likely seriously hurt the shooter. He said this was NOT the case with 6.8. Since the exterior dimensions are the same but the internal dimensions are not a plugged barrel may result in a more catastrophic result. I never tested him on this but I certainly take his word.

This above may be why Hornady chose the 52K pressure limit.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

6mmARC is simply a standardization of something that has been around much longer. The first time I held a 6mm grendel based reamer in my hand was 2007 IRC. The first time I was on the line next to a competitor shooting a 6mm PPC based AR was before 2000 and the first time I recall a 6mm Grendel based AR in "PRS type" match was the Snipershide Cup about 2008. I am a fan of Grendel based cartridge's, my personal collection has some. I own no 6.8 SPC based rifles personally, I have a .224 valk reamer for customers but never even bothered to get my 6.8 SPC II reamer back from the last person it was lent too, so I am far from a 6.8 fanboy. I also have seen grendel based guns used by a wide variety of builders, not all were plug and play. I do not doubt Hornady's Engineer's findings or integrity but based on observations of a not small pool of diverse but similar cartridge's/ ammo / weapons components I stand by my assertion that big organization adoption is very likely to be harder for the ARC logistically, individuals not such a big a deal. This situation is very similar to the fact that yesterday I carried my STI as an "enthusiast/individual" with confidence but wouldn't recommend it to an agency for mass issue if they were silly enough to ask my opinion....

Bolt life can be an issue with high volume 5.56 shooters, I do not have first hand experience on the .mil/LE side of higher round count lug failures but have seen lugs fail firsthand for high volume competitors. There are many fewer 6.8's and 6.5's out there but many more "per capita" results reported by shooters on the interwebs for both larger cartridge's. The million dollar question is is it because the diminished margins associated with the larger cartridge's or is it because people picked them for higher performance than otherwise available in an AR and then pushed that too far in the search of said. Hornady's 52KSI max pressure is not that far of the Valk's SAAMI listed max of 55 KSI and same the Grendels MAP of 52 KSI, I am not sure I can think of any AR 15 chamber larger than a .373 boltface that allows much more than 55KSI excluding the highley modified bolt / barrel extensions/ sometimes upper receiver modifications associated with the various 6mm BR / WSSM/ 22-250 attempts.

[Shotgun]

Jack would just say to get an AR-10 in 7-08.

Perhaps. But, whatever he advised, it would be from atop a picturesque mountain with an unbelievably big sheep in the foreground.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fgundigest.com%2Fmore%2Fhow-to%2Fjack-oconnor-tips-big-game-shooting&psig=AOvVaw1_QdvfgNMkbF-FIIzpP6FY&ust=1623366286997000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCPjB0OrUi_ECFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD

[Tokarev]

6mmARC is simply a standardization of something that has been around much longer. I do not doubt Hornady's Engineer's findings or integrity but based on observations of a not small pool of diverse but similar cartridge's/ ammo / weapons components I stand by my assertion that big organization adoption is very likely to be harder for the ARC logistically, individuals not such a big a deal.

Hornady says in one of the introductory videos that they did not invent the 6mm Grendel but rather tweaked a few things and standardized it, as you say. Design specs were to give trajectory not unlike that of a 308/AR10 but in a standard AR platform. In this case it looks like the ARC hits the bill as likely would have some other similar cartridges. And I don't think the 6 ARC is meant to be anything other than a limited application and/or stop gap until something happens with the new 6.8 and the new rifle to accompany. Will it grow beyond this role if and when the 6.8 rifle project fails?

[Borderland]

Perhaps. But, whatever he advised, it would be from atop a picturesque mountain with an unbelievably big sheep in the foreground.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fgundigest.com%2Fmore%2Fhow-to%2Fjack-oconnor-tips-big-game-shooting&psig=AOvVaw1_QdvfgNMkbF-FIIzpP6FY&ust=1623366286997000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCPjB0OrUi_ECFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD

Jack would have looked at an AR and said WTF. That isn't going on a sheep hunt with me unless it can chamber a .270.

[LJP]

I’m interested, but primarily because Hornady is behind it (I own a 6.5 Creedmoor bolt gun for the same reason), and because I live in an AWB state where I cannot obtain new lower receivers, but a new upper in a different caliber is not an issue. Hopefully the supply chain opens up someday and I can pick up an upper and some ammo.

[alamo5000]

For 223 based Wildcats I'm pretty happy with my .277 Wolverine. I use it in a 12.5" AR and am getting 2350 fps with a 90gr Gold Dot. Users running 18" barrels or whatever are getting around 2850 fps from these lengths.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

Punch in the numbers for the 6 ARC using heavy for caliber bullets out of a 12" barrel. There are approximate velocities listed above in another post for that barrel length.

If you are talking a short hunting or pig gun the ARC will carry about 200ft/lbs more energy. Based on my 112 grain bullets the ARC will have more energy at 200 yards than the Wolverine with the load you mentioned at 25 yards...

[Tokarev]

Based on my 112 grain bullets the ARC will have more energy...

Barnes Match Burners? Where'd you find them?


Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[alamo5000]

Barnes Match Burners? Where'd you find them?


Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

I bought them from someone wanting to do a sale/trade. I've been shopping for other components for quite a long time and when I saw those come up on another forum I bought a few hundred to try out.

Once I get my optic situation settled I will test them out.

[Tokarev]

I bought them from someone wanting to do a sale/trade. I've been shopping for other components for quite a long time and when I saw those come up on another forum I bought a few hundred to try out.

Once I get my optic situation settled I will test them out.Pretty curious about these and the 105 option. Price seems really good especially compared to Bergers, etc.



Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[alamo5000]

Pretty curious about these and the 105 option. Price seems really good especially compared to Bergers, etc.

I will definitely keep you informed once I start testing. I have about 80 factory rounds left which I am shooting to get brass. The optic I bought was a lemon so I had to return it so I am waiting on that before I buy another. After that I will be on to trying the 112's.

When I had my barrel turned I had them put a little extra twist in it...1:7 vs 7.5 or whatever on the basis that I am going to try and shoot heavies. Others have reported good findings but you never know until you put some through yourself right?

[Tokarev]

I will definitely keep you informed once I start testing. I have about 80 factory rounds left which I am shooting to get brass. The optic I bought was a lemon so I had to return it so I am waiting on that before I buy another. After that I will be on to trying the 112's.

When I had my barrel turned I had them put a little extra twist in it...1:7 vs 7.5 or whatever on the basis that I am going to try and shoot heavies. Others have reported good findings but you never know until you put some through yourself right?I'd like to see 1x7 as a standard twist although the standard is 7.5. It looks like 7.5 will work with 110-112-115 conventional bullets but some monolithic bullets will probably need 1x7. Plus it is probably only a matter of time before someone starts making a 120gr or heavier.

300 BLK went from 1x8 was the only twist to 1x7 being pretty common. Now some guns have faster twist than that. I think the SIG MCX is 1x6.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Tokarev]

I will definitely keep you informed once I start testing. I have about 80 factory rounds left which I am shooting to get brass. The optic I bought was a lemon so I had to return it so I am waiting on that before I buy another. After that I will be on to trying the 112's.

When I had my barrel turned I had them put a little extra twist in it...1:7 vs 7.5 or whatever on the basis that I am going to try and shoot heavies. Others have reported good findings but you never know until you put some through yourself right?Midway has the 105 and 112 Match Burner in stock as of 0830 hours AZ time 06/16/21.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[alamo5000]

Midway has the 105 and 112 Match Burner in stock as of 0830 hours AZ time 06/16/21.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

I have 300 of the 112's and my replacement optic is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow. I have about 80 factory rounds left as well that I am shooting to get brass. After that I will start load development. I kind of want to see how my barrel and gun shoots before I start going all in on one bullet weight or type.

[Tokarev]

I have about 80 factory rounds left as well that I am shooting to get brass.

How's your impression of the factory stuff? It shoot okay? And which load is it?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[alamo5000]

How's your impression of the factory stuff? It shoot okay? And which load is it?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

I haven't had a chance to get a good impression yet. I only shot a little bit then I found out my optic had a problem and needed to be replaced. My initial shots were to 'try' and zero the gun...which I did but I had to do it topped out with the full 31 mils of elevation used. It would only zero on two different guns at the very top of the elevation range instead of in the middle where it should have been. Total I got 40 rounds down the tube so far before sending the optic back and buying a different one.

During my zeroing process I got it on steel and that was it. I never even tried to shoot a group so I can't comment yet. When my new optic arrives I will go for round 2.

Normally I can zero a gun in just a few shots but because the optic was having issues it took me a lot of head scratching and a bunch of extra rounds. Once I got it figured out I went out the next day and shot it some more just to confirm what I thought was going on.

All I can say about the factory rounds is the 105's are pretty dirty when shooting suppressed. I don't have much analysis beyond that. Hopefully I can get it sorted soon though.

I shot those 40 rounds to zero and make sure the gun is functioning which it's running good so far. I am still kind of anxious because I had to wait 16 weeks for my barrel. I want to see if it can hold a group or not.

[Tokarev]

alamo5000

Got any updates? Is the optic issue corrected?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[alamo5000]

alamo5000

Got any updates? Is the optic issue corrected?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

Holy smokes. Yeah. Kinda.

It's not all the way corrected yet but I am hoping to find out soon how this will go.

Here is the background: I bought an optic which I assumed was bad/bent/lemon etc. I sent that one back and got a refund. Bought a second copy. Had issues as well. I contacted the optic manufacturer and they were really on the ball. They hand picked another optic and did a range certification on that (third) copy and sent it out to me without any questions really. I mounted my third optic. I was getting 11 mils of elevation out of 32 available. None of that added up to the range certification that I got (in writing) that included tracking and zero.

After a ton of testing and basically wasting a bunch of ammo I came to the conclusion that the scope mount was bad. Needless to say that I did a LOT of tests to figure this out. I am 99% sure that this was the problem. I contacted that manufacturer and they sent me a label and I returned it to them for inspection.

Hopefully I hear back from them soon with news that I am getting a replacement mount. I figure that second and definitely the third optic were actually fine. After a whole slew of tests I am quite certain it was the mount that was the culprit. Needless to say this has been so far a 6 week long ordeal.

I don't have tools to do a test on an optic mount itself but what it appears to be is the cant on the mount was machined wrong. I don't want to mention the company (yet) until I hear back from them with their findings and see how they handle it. Needless to say when I mounted up the scope correctly I got 11 mils of elevation. When I turned it around with the cantilever towards the shooter (and mounted the optic in a backwards mount) I got around 19 mils of elevation, which is where it is supposed to be. That also lines up exactly with the certification I got about the specific optic that I got from them.

Anyway not solved yet. Hopefully it's not too much trouble going forward. It's already been a headache and six weeks of nonsense.

[Tokarev]

Anyway not solved yet. Hopefully it's not too much trouble going forward. It's already been a headache and six weeks of nonsense.

???

Any updates?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[alamo5000]

???

Any updates?


Got my mount replaced. Somebody really effed up on the first one. It took two months, three rifles, and three scopes, but I finally figured it out. An employee at said company milled the slope of the mount the wrong direction. They did however confirm this was the problem and sent me a replacement.

I got it on the rifle and got it zeroed. I shot some Hornady 108 grain ammo over a chrono just a couple of hours ago. My average was 2756fps.

I normally never buy factory ammo but in this case I am purchasing it to collect the brass. I have not done any load development yet.

Total over the previous 2.5 months I have put maybe 100 rounds down range, but the vast majority of that was troubleshooting to finally find a messed up scope mount...

The weather has been pretty bad the last few weeks but once I get into some load development and get something I like I will definitely stretch it's legs. I was getting MORE than the advertised velocities so that's interesting.

With that ammo I could hit 1000 yards just using hold overs in my reticle. I built mine to be a 1K rifle and it's easily going to get there I think (I haven't took it out that far yet). The cool thing is I have a good velocity window to work with. Even if I get a node or a bullet powder combination that is 50 or 100 fps slower I still get what I am after in the way of a rifle. Typically I am not one to 'hot rod' my loads so that works out great.

Really and truly I was planning out a bigger caliber gun for long range target shooting (1K+). The longest regular shots I have are 1,400 with opportunities for longer every once in a while. When I was trying to decide on things the 6ARC dropped so I figured 'why not'. I can shoot it for a lot cheaper and it meets a lot of wants.

With my twist rate and barrel length I kind of ruled out shooting light bullets, but I knew that going in and it was a choice I made after a lot of thought. If anyone gets one in a 20" or shorter rifle 1:7 would be a no brainer. It should be pretty standard I think, at least so far.

I built mine with a special purpose in mind, but I am still thinking through what an optimal barrel length would be for an all around rifle. So far though the cartridge is definitely interesting. Getting components to test is a pain in the ass though...fortunately I have several pounds of Varget left and 16 pounds of CFE 223 that hasn't even been opened. I will have to make due with those two for now. Bullets though are hard to come by. At least 6mm ones.

[OlongJohnson]

An employee at said company milled the slope of the mount the wrong direction.

Something to add to the checklist. Seems like it should be easy enough to check that by measuring the parts.

[alamo5000]

Something to add to the checklist. Seems like it should be easy enough to check that by measuring the parts.

Other than just shooting the gun I don't know of any way to test that. I've never had the need to test it before. At least until now. None the less it is replaced now. It should have never happened but what's done is done I guess.

[Tokarev]

Other than just shooting the gun I don't know of any way to test that. I've never had the need to test it before. At least until now. None the less it is replaced now. It should have never happened but what's done is done I guess.20moa base? The slope is usually pretty noticeable.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[SecondsCount]

20moa base? The slope is usually pretty noticeable.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
I agree.

The front of the scope should be pointing slightly downward.

[alamo5000]

20moa base? The slope is usually pretty noticeable.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


I agree.

The front of the scope should be pointing slightly downward.

It wasn't a full 20 MOA and it wasn't a base (in the traditional sense). The actual mount itself (a one piece) was machined wrong. To complicate that some the first optic I got was bad as well (I think it got bent somehow). When I got the first optic all mounted up I had like 1 or 2 mils of elevation left in the turret, which was obvious WAY off... I had like 30 mils down and 2 up... so I sent that one back, got a refund etc... and that wasn't a fast process.

Then I ordered another scope and it was off too albeit not as much as the first one (at least I thought so). So I sent that one back for warranty... they replaced it before I ever sent it in (great customer service) but in hindsight that second optic as well as the replacement one were both good. They basically heard my story and sent a label with the new optic that they had range certified.

Within about two or three days of getting a range certified optic I KNEW it wasn't the optic at that point. The optics manufacturer hand picked an optic and put it on a rifle and zeroed it as well as did the other tracking tests and so forth.

At that point I started breaking out the calipers and did a ton of other tests and isolated the problem. Keep in mind that all of this was done during my off time from work (when it wasn't raining or whatever). Between all the shipping, boxing, shipping again, refunds, and whatever I figured it out. Plus I tried mounting it on other rifles and so on and so forth as well. Then I sent the mount back to the manufacturer who took a little bit of time to examine it themselves... It took too much time and a bit of frustration.

It however wasn't something that I could visually see, at least not without someone telling me beforehand what the problem was.

[alamo5000]

alamo5000

Got any updates? Is the optic issue corrected?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

I have been playing around with some 112 Grain MatchBurners with so so results. The other day I found a single box of 108 grain Hornady bullets so I bought them.

Today with my first load, without any seating depth tests or any of that stuff I shot this on the first try. Outside edges measure .517". Center to center it's .27".

Since one MOA is 1.08" at 100 yards, this leaves me with exactly a .25 MOA 5 shot group. Not too bad I would say. Especially for how it went down. First load. At all.

I shot it off of a bipod and rear bag.

77577

77578

[Tokarev]

I have been playing around with some 112 Grain MatchBurners with so so results. The other day I found a single box of 108 grain Hornady bullets so I bought them.

Today with my first load, without any seating depth tests or any of that stuff I shot this on the first try. Outside edges measure .517". Center to center it's .27".

Since one MOA is 1.08" at 100 yards, this leaves me with exactly a .25 MOA 5 shot group. Not too bad I would say. Especially for how it went down. First load. At all.

I shot it off of a bipod and rear bag.

77577

77578Nice. What's the load?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[alamo5000]

Nice. What's the load?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

Quite literally the first one I tried. 28.5 grains of CFE223 under a 108 grain Hornady seated as far out as possible but still fitting in the mag. I will tinker with trying to bump up the charge a bit, but damn if day one with those bullets didn't produce something to work with.

[SecondsCount]

Are you able to measure the bullet jump to the lands?

The Barnes MB is a good bullet but could be more sensitive to jump compared to the Hornady due to the ogive design.

[alamo5000]

Are you able to measure the bullet jump to the lands?

The Barnes MB is a good bullet but could be more sensitive to jump compared to the Hornady due to the ogive design.

I haven't measured the 'to the lands' yet but I guess I could. Honestly I've never used 'the lands' as a measuring point on almost any rifle I own. Aside from making sure I am not jammed into the lands in some situations.

I still have a couple hundred 112's left. So far though I haven't had a crazy amount of luck with those, at least not a 1/4 MOA. Sub MOA yeah, but nothing crazy. Keep in mind I haven't done a crazy amount of testing. My biggest problem now is a lack of brass. I have I think 120 pieces of brass total so it doesn't take a long time to have to stop and tumble, anneal, and start over.

Personally I kind of think those 112's have a totally different ogive that makes them a bit more wonky to work with with magazine length restrictions. So far I am not totally impressed but then again I am not done testing yet.

[Tokarev]

I haven't measured the 'to the lands' yet but I guess I could. Honestly I've never used 'the lands' as a measuring point on almost any rifle I own. Aside from making sure I am not jammed into the lands in some situations.

I still have a couple hundred 112's left. So far though I haven't had a crazy amount of luck with those, at least not a 1/4 MOA. Sub MOA yeah, but nothing crazy. Keep in mind I haven't done a crazy amount of testing. My biggest problem now is a lack of brass. I have I think 120 pieces of brass total so it doesn't take a long time to have to stop and tumble, anneal, and start over.

Personally I kind of think those 112's have a totally different ogive that makes them a bit more wonky to work with with magazine length restrictions. So far I am not totally impressed but then again I am not done testing yet.

What load(s) have you tried with the 112?

You may know this, and I apologize in advance if you do, but you can resize Grendel brass to work. It just requires a slight shoulder bump and then a trim. Another option that requires a bit more work is converting 7.62x39 brass. It requires fire forming to remove the case taper.

Here's a thread discussing some case conversion options:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/6mm-arc-brass.885108/


Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[alamo5000]

What load(s) have you tried with the 112?

You may know this, and I apologize in advance if you do, but you can resize Grendel brass to work. It just requires a slight shoulder bump and then a trim. Another option that requires a bit more work is converting 7.62x39 brass. It requires fire forming to remove the case taper.

Here's a thread discussing some case conversion options:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/6mm-arc-brass.885108/


Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

I've been looking for some 6.5 Grendel brass (preferably Starline I guess) but that is OOS everywhere. I am not in a rush so I just get stuff as I see it available hopefully without paying double.

As far as the 112's go I've tried a few things. I will revisit them later on. I just got a micrometer stem for my Hornady seating die so that will make life a lot easier.

I want to try some Berger 109's as well. Normally I just buy a box of anything that interests me and work from there...but these days that's not an option.

Also I am trying to not run up a huge credit card bill buying stuff so I kind of just pick and choose what I get (and when). Most of the time for bigger purchases I try to discipline myself. I try to invest in the stock market so I tell myself that when I do something good I get a reward which usually includes a spending spree within whatever I set.

Anyway the cost of components, as well as the availability is insane (no news there) but when I see something I want I will put $$$ aside so I can just buy what I want. All of my other bullets/components have been built up over time that way. I will just buy in bulk a few times here or there and be done with it for a while.

I'm still rationing my shooting a bit too. I've never been one to go blast 1,000 rounds in an afternoon. I am more of a believer in quality over quantity. I have a 300 yard lane in my yard and of course pistol targets. Usually I just go out and shoot 2-3 mags or so a couple of times a week. It's pretty nice being able to do that at home. I would rather do two mags 2-3 times a week vs 1000 rounds a day once every 6 months. I think the repetition and cold shooting helps more than just shooting until you are exhausted.

[SecondsCount]

....


Personally I kind of think those 112's have a totally different ogive that makes them a bit more wonky to work with with magazine length restrictions. So far I am not totally impressed but then again I am not done testing yet.

It's not necessarily wonky. Certain ogives, which typically have a high BC, really like being close to the lands. The AR doesn't do well with some of these bullets because of the mag length restrictions. You can't get the OAL long enough to find the bullet's sweet spot.

[Tokarev]

I want to try some Berger 109's as well. Normally I just buy a box of anything that interests me and work from there...but these days that's not an option..

Maybe keep an eye on Midsouth Shooters Supply. They often sell sample packs of just ten bullets.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Tokarev]

Maybe keep an eye on Midsouth Shooters Supply. They often sell sample packs of just ten bullets.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalkhttps://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0015324531ats/hornady-6mm-point243-diameter-110-grain-a-tip-match-sample-pack-10-count

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Wondering Beard]

Geissele is bringing out rifles in that caliber.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDL0ObYijPw

[Tokarev]

Another video on the new rifles from G:


https://youtu.be/NlVL9f2_nYQ

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[SecondsCount]

I didn't take the time to wade through the videos. Did they post some groups?

[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/-VVJ5M5FC40

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Wondering Beard]

I didn't take the time to wade through the videos. Did they post some groups?

No they just talked about the hardware.

[RAM Engineer]

I'm going to be honest...There are so many new rifle calibers coming out monthly to fit in the three 5.56/7.62/300WM class platforms, that I've really lost track of who's who and what's what.

[SecondsCount]

I'm going to be honest...There are so many new rifle calibers coming out monthly to fit in the three 5.56/7.62/300WM class platforms, that I've really lost track of who's who and what's what.

I think the word has gotten out that Hornady is a marketing powerhouse and everyone is getting plugged in. You can only sell so many 5.56 ARs before you run out of interest. I've not seen the numbers but my guess is that gun sales are slowing way down right now and new calibers are one way to kick the market back into high gear.

[Clusterfrack]

Cdub_NW recently jumped on the 6 ARC train. I think he's been working up loads. When that's done we are going to have an ARC vs. Grendel 1100 yd smackdown.

[Cdub_NW]

Cdub_NW recently jumped on the 6 ARC train. I think he's been working up loads. When that's done we are going to have an ARC vs. Grendel 1100 yd smackdown.

Jumped in but have not begun load development yet. So far I have only done some initial barrel break in (getting brass in the process). Hoping to find time in the coming months for loading and testing.

[SecondsCount]

Cdub_NW recently jumped on the 6 ARC train. I think he's been working up loads. When that's done we are going to have an ARC vs. Grendel 1100 yd smackdown.

I wonder which is more inherently accurate. 6 PPC is the smaller grandfather to the 6ARC and has won a lot of competitions, but the tactical/long range crown will try to squeeze every last ounce of speed out of the little case.

[Clusterfrack]

I wonder which is more inherently accurate. 6 PPC is the smaller grandfather to the 6ARC and has won a lot of competitions, but the tactical/long range crown will try to squeeze every last ounce of speed out of the little case.

There aren't a lot of options for 6.5 Grendel, and I like that because I don't enjoy fooling around with loads. I have a great OCW load with old school 123gr Match Kings at 2450 fps out of my suppressed 16" midweight Alexander Arms upper. They are transonic stable and I'm very confident in my dope out to 1150. But the ARC clearly looks superior on paper.

[TOTS]

There aren't a lot of options for 6.5 Grendel, and I like that because I don't enjoy fooling around with loads. I have a great OCW load with old school 123gr Match Kings at 2450 fps out of my suppressed 16" midweight Alexander Arms upper. They are transonic stable and I'm very confident in my dope out to 1150. But the ARC clearly looks superior on paper.
+1 like for another OCW disciple!! This is the way.

[Tokarev]

Brownells.com has Geissele 6 ARC mags in stock. I don't see rifles or rifle components available at this time.

Mags are pretty pricey. List price for the 25 rounder is $65.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/GtZUxn2Je-8

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Tokarev]

Wilson Combat is now selling 6 ARC stuff. Complete rifles, barrels, etc.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Biggy]

There is a good chance I may go all in on the 6mm ARC, but I am going to wait until about this time next year to see how things shake out with it before I make that decision. The reality *for me* is, my 18 inch SPR/DMR rifle using 77gr match ammo will get the job done out to 500 yards just fine. For me it will always go back to the availability and price of the 6mm ARC ammo and if I really need 500 yards and out capability.

[awp_101]

So almost a year later and with a continuing component shortage, is there a general consensus on barrel length and twist rate yet?

Or maybe asked another way, are there barrel lengths and twist rates that serve only 1 purpose (say long range only) rather than being a sort of “general purpose” rifle I could grab for mid-range target work, light hunting (white tail or pigs) or just fun at the range with the grandkids?

[Tokarev]

So almost a year later and with a continuing component shortage, is there a general consensus on barrel length and twist rate yet?

Or maybe asked another way, are there barrel lengths and twist rates that serve only 1 purpose (say long range only) rather than being a sort of “general purpose” rifle I could grab for mid-range target work, light hunting (white tail or pigs) or just fun at the range with the grandkids?18" overall length and 7.5" twist seems to be the norm. That's just from poking around and looking at what seems to be a common barrel across multiple makers.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[awp_101]

Thanks, I was seeing lots of 18" barrels but not many were stating the twist.

[Clusterfrack]

Cdub_NW?

[Bergeron]

Ugh, I’d just love this if I could have it in that Sig “Fury” cartridge style with the 80kpsi pressure limit and a bolt with the strength to handle volumes of it.

[Cdub_NW]

Thanks, I was seeing lots of 18" barrels but not many were stating the twist.

I went with a 16" SPR profile (will be running a suppressor) 1/7 twist

[Tokarev]

I went with a 16" SPR profile (will be running a suppressor) 1/7 twistWho's the maker?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[SecondsCount]

So almost a year later and with a continuing component shortage, is there a general consensus on barrel length and twist rate yet?

Or maybe asked another way, are there barrel lengths and twist rates that serve only 1 purpose (say long range only) rather than being a sort of “general purpose” rifle I could grab for mid-range target work, light hunting (white tail or pigs) or just fun at the range with the grandkids?

That's the beauty of 6mm. Load up an 87 grain Vmax and go varmint hunting, bump it up to a 105 class bullet and go after white tail, or something a little sleeker and shoot long range. All in a 1:7 or 1:8 twist.

Where it really shines, compared to 5.56, is in shorter barrels. You can lop off 4-6 inches and still have a carbine with serious energy.

[awp_101]

That's the beauty of 6mm. Load up an 87 grain Vmax and go varmint hunting, bump it up to a 105 class bullet and go after white tail, or something a little sleeker and shoot long range. All in a 1:7 or 1:8 twist.

Where it really shines, compared to 5.56, is in shorter barrels. You can lop off 4-6 inches and still have a carbine with serious energy.

Thanks! For my purposes 16”-18” is fine.

The self-imposed stumbling block I keep hitting with my ARC thought experiment is I really want an upper and bolt action in the same caliber. When I get to the bolt action part, I start asking myself “isn’t this really just a .243 for a small frame AR?”. Then I start down the “just build a couple of .243s and you won’t have to worry about building up a stash of brass” path.

Since the ARC and .243 use same bullets, I should probably settle on an ARC/.243 pairing and sharing components since it would be a stretch to assume both rifles would like the same recipe.

[Duelist]

Thanks! For my purposes 16”-18” is fine.

The self-imposed stumbling block I keep hitting with my ARC thought experiment is I really want an upper and bolt action in the same caliber. When I get to the bolt action part, I start asking myself “isn’t this really just a .243 for a small frame AR?”. Then I start down the “just build a couple of .243s and you won’t have to worry about building up a stash of brass” path.

Since the ARC and .243 use same bullets, I should probably settle on an ARC/.243 pairing and sharing components since it would be a stretch to assume both rifles would like the same recipe.

JMHO: yes, it is a .243 for a small-frame AR, when you look at the performance numbers. It makes sense if that’s what you want out of your AR. If you want it for deer hunting, a 6.8 or Grendel upper will probably do about the same performance out to 300 yards, which is well beyond where most deer are shot. If you want it for its other capabilities and deer, then just like a .243, it makes a lot of sense.

No wondering which bullets are capable of what and at what velocities and distances, since .243 and 6mm Remington have been using them for decades.

I will probably stick with my .243 and .270 bolt actions for most of my hunting, and my 6.8 upper when I want to use an AR.

[SecondsCount]

243 is a good caliber but was designed around 1:9-1:10 twist barrels which limits you to 90 grain bullets. Nowadays, the manufacturers are shipping the 6 Creedmoor with the 1:8 twist to stabilize the 105/108 class bullets.

There are bolt actions currently available in 6ARC. 4 more inches of barrel should offer another 100 FPS.

https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/rifles/savage-110-switchback-6mm-arc-blackolive-drab-bolt-action-rifle-22in/p/1653420

[awp_101]

243 is a good caliber but was designed around 1:9-1:10 twist barrels which limits you to 90 grain bullets. Nowadays, the manufacturers are shipping the 6 Creedmoor with the 1:8 twist to stabilize the 105/108 class bullets.

There are bolt actions currently available in 6ARC. 4 more inches of barrel should offer another 100 FPS.

https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/rifles/savage-110-switchback-6mm-arc-blackolive-drab-bolt-action-rifle-22in/p/1653420

True, and a 6 Creed is high on my curiosity list. I should probably just buy the Savage 12 single shot action at my favorite pusher’s shop and start getting barrels spun up.

[Duelist]

243 is a good caliber but was designed around 1:9-1:10 twist barrels which limits you to 90 grain bullets. Nowadays, the manufacturers are shipping the 6 Creedmoor with the 1:8 twist to stabilize the 105/108 class bullets.

There are bolt actions currently available in 6ARC. 4 more inches of barrel should offer another 100 FPS.

https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/rifles/savage-110-switchback-6mm-arc-blackolive-drab-bolt-action-rifle-22in/p/1653420

1:9 does just fine with 100-105 gr bullets. Most deer bullets are 95-100.

[SecondsCount]

1:9 does just fine with 100-105 gr bullets. Most deer bullets are 95-100.

Yes, but hunting bullets are a little stubbier than the long, high BC long range bullets. You need RPM to stabilize them.

[Cdub_NW]

Who's the maker?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

This one is a Ballistic Advantage. I would be fine with anything they put out, Faxon, Odin, Proof, Rainer Arms, Shilen... All would be good to go generally speaking for a 6arc. I am SURE there are others out there, those are just the makers I have sourced various AR barrels from and never had any issues.

[Tokarev]

Faxon.

I have a 16" from Faxon I bought through Aim Surplus some while back. Initial impressions are generally favorable although I have not done much with it yet.

I say generally favorable because it does seem fairly aggressively gased. Then again I don't have any other 6 ARC barrels to compare against.

I do like the profile and overall weight.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Cdub_NW]

I have a 16" from Faxon I bought through Aim Surplus some while back. Initial impressions are generally favorable although I have not done much with it yet.

I say generally favorable because it does seem fairly aggressively gased. Then again I don't have any other 6 ARC barrels to compare against.

I do like the profile and overall weight.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

I also threw on a superlative arms adjustable gas block. I had no experience with them but since this was not going to be a high volume rifle for me, I wanted to ability to tune the gas a more than usual. So far it has adjusted as expected but it is a part I will keep an eye on to ensure the build continues to function as intended.

[Tokarev]

I will probably pick up a fluted Wilson Combat barrel at some point to see what accuracy advantage it might have over the Faxon. But then again I haven't even hardly used my Faxon yet. It isn't like I've used if enough to have a strong opinion or be unhappy with it.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[OlongJohnson]

Just to throw it out there, when I dipped my toe in the Faxon water, I received a defective barrel and a defective warranty replacement. Their CS was so overwhelmed that it took me posting here and LL shaking some trees for me so the CS guy's boss came into his office with an email asking "WTF?" for me to get a response the first round. After that, he was always helpful. Nice guy with a crappy job. I figure the sheer volume of complaints they get is a meaningful indicator.

I really like the Wilson Combat barrels I've seen. As nicely machined as you'd expect, and can be had for a decent price with some shopping.

[SecondsCount]

I have an 18" Faxon Gunner that shoots as good as my White Oak, both are 0.7 MOA. Then I bought a 14.5" Faxon Gunner and it is lucky to shoot 1.5 MOA. I need to spend a little more time with it but that's what you get with low cost barrels.

Palmetto's stainless barrels shoot really well. I've shot 4 of them and they were all sub MOA.

[Tokarev]

I really like the Wilson Combat barrels I've seen. As nicely machined as you'd expect, and can be had for a decent price with some shopping.

Wilson Combat had two barrels available with the initial rollout a few weeks ago. One a fluted lighter profile. The other more of a heavy target profile. The heavier profile appears to have been pulled from sale. Now only the fluted profile is on the WC site. And of course it is out of stock.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Shawn Dodson]

Just to throw it out there, when I dipped my toe in the Faxon water, I received a defective barrel and a defective warranty replacement. Their CS was so overwhelmed that it took me posting here and LL shaking some trees for me so the CS guy's boss came into his office with an email asking "WTF?" for me to get a response the first round. After that, he was always helpful. Nice guy with a crappy job. I figure the sheer volume of complaints they get is a meaningful indicator.

I really like the Wilson Combat barrels I've seen. As nicely machined as you'd expect, and can be had for a decent price with some shopping.

I had the same exact experience. I got a Faxon Big Gunner 20" barrel for an AR308. It shot desk calendar sized groups at 100 yards regardless of ammo and shooter. I tried the upper on a different lower and then tried a different upper. No change in accuracy. I called Faxon, spoke with the CS manager (a buddy of mine gave me his phone number when I never heard back from them), and they sent a replacement barrel, which was nearly as bad as the first one. The replacement barrel arrived around the time the Covid shutdown started and my shooting range was closed for months, so I didn't get to shoot the new barrel right away.

What attracted me to the Big Gunner barrel was its lightweight (for hunting), but I'm done with Faxon.

I recently replaced the Faxon barrel with a Wilson Combat Tactical Hunter 18" fluted barrel that's either 2 or 4 ounces heavier than the Faxon barrel. I haven't gotten out to shoot it yet, but I have a Wilson Combat Tactical Hunter 16" barrel in 6.8 SPC and it's the most accurate of all my ARs. I'm keeping my fingers crossed the .308 barrel will be just as good.

[Tokarev]

Took my 16" Faxon out to 800 today on steel. 0/0 at 800. High winds and a lack of loaded ammo somewhat prohibited my performance.

200-500 is easy pickings on USPSA steel even with gusting winds. 600 probably 70/30. 700 was maybe 30/70. Definitely seeing a pretty good drop at 500+

Ammo was a Sierra 100 grain Game King loaded with 760. Chrono says about 2400 fps.

Load development is in order but I think the gun shows promise. Not bad for sticking some powder in a case and seating a hunting bullet on top!

One comment on the SGK. Being a traditional soft point bullet it does not like being in a magazine. Tips were mashed flat especially towards the bottom of the mag. Some type of protected soft point is the better choice if anyone plans to hunt with a 6 ARC AR.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[HeavyDuty]

Bumping this thread up because of an advertisement email I received. It reminded me of how I was interested in 6MM ARC before, but was waiting for it to mature a little. I enjoy long distance shooting on steel when I can (not often,) and don’t have a truly long range cartridge in the safe - right now .308 is as good as it gets.

I actually put a LaRue complete upper in my cart but got to thinking I might do better with a bolt rifle - it will be low volume and I’d prefer not chasing brass. I plan on getting dies, too.

What are people seeing for decent quality bolt rifles and barreled actions? I’m not looking for a match gun, I’ll never shoot to that level. I’m not ruling out an AR upper, but I want to investigate a bit before I decide if I want to make the $$$ jump.

[HCM]

Bumping this thread up because of an advertisement email I received. It reminded me of how I was interested in 6MM ARC before, but was waiting for it to mature a little. I enjoy long distance shooting on steel when I can (not often,) and don’t have a truly long range cartridge in the safe - right now .308 is as good as it gets.

I actually put a LaRue complete upper in my cart but got to thinking I might do better with a bolt rifle - it will be low volume and I’d prefer not chasing brass. I plan on getting dies, too.

What are people seeing for decent quality bolt rifles and barreled actions? I’m not looking for a match gun, I’ll never shoot to that level. I’m not ruling out an AR upper, but I want to investigate a bit before I decide if I want to make the $$$ jump.

Howa is offering their barreled mini bolt actions in 6mm ARC via Brownells for $489.

https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts/rifle-parts/rifle-receivers-parts/1500-barreled-mini-actions-6mm-arc/?sku=430102217&trk_msg=VUUA7FB67M5KTEQM8C3HE31PUO&trk_contact=4L3M1Q0S3RG2OS8IT0O1JKIBDG&trk_sid=H9VSRGH1RTI7QQ8LVQD009400G&trk_link=4A32T7RMA1K4B9PVJOFINH8ALG&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Howa+1500+Barreled+Actions&utm_campaign=RifleParts&utm_content=2023_03_21_Howa

[HeavyDuty]

Howa is offering their barreled mini bolt actions in 6mm ARC via Brownells for $489.

https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts/rifle-parts/rifle-receivers-parts/1500-barreled-mini-actions-6mm-arc/?sku=430102217&trk_msg=VUUA7FB67M5KTEQM8C3HE31PUO&trk_contact=4L3M1Q0S3RG2OS8IT0O1JKIBDG&trk_sid=H9VSRGH1RTI7QQ8LVQD009400G&trk_link=4A32T7RMA1K4B9PVJOFINH8ALG&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Howa+1500+Barreled+Actions&utm_campaign=RifleParts&utm_content=2023_03_21_Howa

An email about that is what started me down this rabbit hole. I know nothing about Howa barreled actions, though. I do see B&C offers their M40 style stock for the Mini action, and there are other options including chassis. My cost on the barreled action is slightly less.

[HCM]

An email about that is what started me down this rabbit hole. I know nothing about Howa barreled actions, though. I do see B&C offers their M40 style stock for the Mini action, and there are other options including chassis. My cost on the barreled action is slightly less.

MDT and JTAC make chassis for the Howa mini action. There may be others. Howa offers a complete gun with a chassis - not sure what chassis or if they sell it separately.

[HeavyDuty]

After chewing on the idea of a Howa Mini based rifle, I decided it wasn’t a good option for me. I’m seriously considering a Savage 110 Tactical as a way of trying the cartridge.

[SecondsCount]

After chewing on the idea of a Howa Mini based rifle, I decided it wasn’t a good option for me. I’m seriously considering a Savage 110 Tactical as a way of trying the cartridge.

If you are getting a full sized action then you might as well go with a full sized cartridge. The 6 Creedmoor pushes the same bullet 200 FPS faster, at the cost of some barrel life. It will feed better also.

[Clusterfrack]

If you are getting a full sized action then you might as well go with a full sized cartridge. The 6 Creedmoor pushes the same bullet 200 FPS faster, at the cost of some barrel life. It will feed better also.

Agree. As much as I like my 6.5 Grendel, the only reason I use the caliber is to stretch the range of the AR-15 platform out to 1100yds.

[Trigger]

I’m in. I’ve been frustrated with the 6.5 Grendel since 2004. Finally stopped trying around 3 years ago. I have a 224 Predator (22 Grendel) that I’m working on, but I bought a 6ARC upper a few months ago. The 6ARC does everything I want from a midrange AR cartridge. Everything I wanted the Grendel to do, but was left unhappy with accuracy and reliability. I’m loading 95 SMKs over 30.0gr CFE223. I only have about 550 of those left, with no replenishment in sight, so I will have to change bullets here later this year or next.

Here is the same picture I posted in the long guns gallery thread, but with a can on it:

103796

[OfficeCat]

Agree. As much as I like my 6.5 Grendel, the only reason I use the caliber is to stretch the range of the AR-15 platform out to 1100yds.

Also agree. I'm very fond of my Grendel as well, but for me the whole reason for it is that it turns the AR into an extremely handy short range deer hunting rifle. The cartridge is just about ideal for what I want it to do but putting it into an oversized package would miss the point.

[HeavyDuty]

What I’m hearing is that maybe I was too quick to dismiss a 6mm ARC upper?

[Biggy]

If I was younger I would probably get a 6mm ARC AR15. Being 71, all *I* need when shooting from 0-600 yds but mostly 0-500 yds and in is my 18" barreled AR15 shooting 77gr match ammo.

https://i.imgur.com/nOCXwRmh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/joVfbmZh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/LtHlmech.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/xUcgdDXh.jpg

[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/Ls5PEHI5kF8

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Tokarev]

Starline has announced 6 ARC brass.

[Noah]

My brother shoots a 6 ARC AR in PRS. I shot it at 600 and 1000 yards a week or two ago, I was impressed.

[RAM Engineer]

So who are the go-to companies for the following categories?

Complete Guns
Complete Uppers
Barrels
Bolts
Magazines

As I noted in another thread, Barrett has apparently discontinued their REC7 DI guns, which is bad news for us who were hoping to replicate the SOCOM 18" gun. Closest I've seen to that configuration is the San Tan Tactical gun.

[SecondsCount]

Rumor has it that Knights is introducing a 6 ARC setup.

The JP bolt seems to hold up on the Grendel, and I'd probably go with a Bartlein barrel. 22" with a +2 gas system would be my preference. Good mags, and then the rest would be standard AR-15 stuff

[Trigger]

Just saw this. Seekins makes a nice rifle: https://seekinsprecision.com/rifles-new/dmr-1.html

[Tokarev]

Here's a new cartridge that may take a pretty decent bite out of the 6 ARC market:


https://youtu.be/UqfpMxci168?si=RKwn4EM4xaJdnHPi

https://bcprecisionballistics.com/

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[littlejerry]

Here's a new cartridge that may take a pretty decent bite out of the 6 ARC market:


https://youtu.be/UqfpMxci168?si=RKwn4EM4xaJdnHPi

https://bcprecisionballistics.com/

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

I don't get it. A 6mm using the mil spec bolt. They went long with the case to get more capacity and cant go over 100 gr on the projectile. They only have 24" test barrel velocities.

The criticism of Grendel/ARC is the weak bolt and junky mags. 6.8SPC/224Valk fixes those issues and increases case capacity.

This will be a slightly slower 6ARC that can't use the high BC projectiles. But you get normal mags and a normal bolt.

[RAM Engineer]

Just saw this. Seekins makes a nice rifle: https://seekinsprecision.com/rifles-new/dmr-1.html

I don’t see a need for more than an 18” barrel in one of these. I’m looking for an enhanced SPR, not a bencchrest gun.

[RAM Engineer]

So will a Grendel mag work fine with 6mmARC?

[maximus83]

So who are the go-to companies for the following categories?

Complete Guns
Complete Uppers
Barrels
Bolts
Magazines

As I noted in another thread, Barrett has apparently discontinued their REC7 DI guns, which is bad news for us who were hoping to replicate the SOCOM 18" gun. Closest I've seen to that configuration is the San Tan Tactical gun.


For precision uppers and barrels:
* Precision Firearms (they'll build you a custom upper with lots of options, I've used them for a 6.5G)
* Craddock Precision (they'll build you an upper on one of their precision barrels, for instance: https://craddockprecision.com/18-signature-6arc/)
* Compass Lake Engineering (I've used them for 5.56, not sure if they do 6 Arc)

[Clusterfrack]

So will a Grendel mag work fine with 6mmARC?

Yep. I like eLander mags for 6.5G.

[maximus83]

So will a Grendel mag work fine with 6mmARC?

Yes they're the same mag in every case I've seen. Like here:

https://dura-mag.com/duramag-ss-6-5-grendel-6mm-arc/

[Hambo]

Here's a new cartridge that may take a pretty decent bite out of the 6 ARC market:

https://bcprecisionballistics.com/

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

The only thing new is bullet weight. 6mm-223 wildcats have been around for at least fifty years.

[Tokarev]

The only thing new is bullet weight. 6mm-223 wildcats have been around for at least fifty years.

Well, yes and no. 6mm-223 has been around for years but this isn't based on a 223 case. They're using a 350 Legend case with a rebated rim as the starting point. It is more or less the AR equivalent of the 284 Winchester.

[Tokarev]

Yep. I like eLander mags for 6.5G.


I've had good luck with the E-Lander mags in my 6mm ARC.

[Tokarev]

What should come as no shock to anyone is that Hornady has just announced the 22 ARC. It is in essence the 6mm necked down.

https://www.hornady.com/22arc#!/

Soon to be followed by .20 and .17 ARC and 6.35mm and 7mm ARC. Maybe 7.62 and 8mm ARC as well....

[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/HfTVBtNIt8I?si=54ercKACyIesjU1I

[Trigger]

I’m excited, but I already have one, sort of.

Had a Cooper 22 PPC bolt gun 20 years ago, great cartridge, very accurate. Rebarreled a 6.5 Grendel AR to 224 Predator (22 Grendel). Also have Bolt guns in 22-250AI (similar to 22 Creedmoor), 22GT, 22BR, 223AI and 223. I’m a big fan of 22 cal bullets. 2 ARs in 6mmARC.

Although Hornady has some consistency issues with the 88ELDM, I think I have about 10k on hand, and about 5k of the Berger 85.5. My current PRS cartridge of choice is the 22GT, with the 22BR as a close second. GT can use standard magazines, while BR needs a BR mag kit. For PRS those two bullets are great, and the recoil (lack there of) allows me to watch the trace and target impact (or miss).

BL, I will not be purchasing a 22 ARC, because I have enough irons in the fire already. But I am a fan, and I think this is a better 223 than 223 Rem.

[TAZ]

22 Creedmore, 22ARC... I'm kind of hoping they would simply make some ammo available for us non reloaders. 6ARC has been round for how long now? Yet I still can't find much of it available. I think 2 weeks ago was the first box I saw at a local LGS. Even though I havent built an ARC upper yet, I thought about buying it for posterity.

[RAM Engineer]

What should come as no shock to anyone is that Hornady has just announced the 22 ARC. It is in essence the 6mm necked down.

https://www.hornady.com/22arc#!/

Soon to be followed by .20 and .17 ARC and 6.35mm and 7mm ARC. Maybe 7.62 and 8mm ARC as well....

I wonder if this will have the same reported high maintenance as the 6ARC? Dirty burning powders and difficult case-shoulder magazine to chamber transition supposedly makes the 6ARC not as forgiving of maintenance as a standard 5.56.

*note, I’ve never fired or owned a 6ARC, just repeating what I’ve seen reported on Sniper’s Hide.

[Hambo]

22 Creedmore, 22ARC... I'm kind of hoping they would simply make some ammo available for us non reloaders.

If you buy anything chambered for a new cartridge and you want to shoot it long term, I recommend buying dies for it.

[SecondsCount]

What should come as no shock to anyone is that Hornady has just announced the 22 ARC. It is in essence the 6mm necked down.

https://www.hornady.com/22arc#!/

Soon to be followed by .20 and .17 ARC and 6.35mm and 7mm ARC. Maybe 7.62 and 8mm ARC as well....

I LOL'd at that.

[ccmdfd]

What should come as no shock to anyone is that Hornady has just announced the 22 ARC. It is in essence the 6mm necked down.

https://www.hornady.com/22arc#!/

Soon to be followed by .20 and .17 ARC and 6.35mm and 7mm ARC. Maybe 7.62 and 8mm ARC as well....

No love for the quarter-bore from Hornady!

[Flamingo]

I bought a BCG/bolt with the thought of running a 6 ARC, but I just never built one. I am really looking towards the 6mm MAX but I am going to wait on that. SOLGW said that Starline has already committed to making the brass.

[Trigger]

What should come as no shock to anyone is that Hornady has just announced the 22 ARC. It is in essence the 6mm necked down.

https://www.hornady.com/22arc#!/

Soon to be followed by .20 and .17 ARC and 6.35mm and 7mm ARC. Maybe 7.62 and 8mm ARC as well....

Heh. I laugh.

It started (I think) with the 220 Russian case (5.6x39), which was used to create the 22PPC and 6mmPPC. The PPC case was adapted to the 6.5 Grendel. Which led to Hornady to adapt the Grendel case to 6mmARC, and finally the 22 ARC. Full circle.

If you go to forums like accurateshooter.com / 6mmBR.com you will find that wildcatters love to invent and reinvent similar cartridges. I’m am guilty of this, and currently undergoing therapy. Group therapy.

[Tokarev]

Heh. I laugh.

It started (I think) with the 220 Russian case (5.6x39), which was used to create the 22PPC and 6mmPPC. The PPC case was adapted to the 6.5 Grendel. Which led to Hornady to adapt the Grendel case to 6mmARC, and finally the 22 ARC. Full circle.

If you go to forums like accurateshooter.com / 6mmBR.com you will find that wildcatters love to invent and reinvent similar cartridges. I’m am guilty of this, and currently undergoing therapy. Group therapy.

Hornady acknowledges that the 6 ARC was not entirely a novel idea. They also acknowledge that this new .22 ARC is essentially a SAAMi version of the .22 Grendel.

[Tokarev]

A bit more on the new 6mm Max


https://youtu.be/oShZcAdM90g?si=gJUUwrpLHNLr7JDv

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Trigger]

Good video!

I like the 6ARC. I set up two of them, plus I have a 224 Predator. Similar to the new 22 ARC. I like shooting them. For my needs, they are great.

[Tokarev]

Geissele rifles and mags discussed after the AK trigger.


https://youtu.be/Sr0ceiYDeDw?si=hjjPPvShjJMspoFO

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[RAM Engineer]

Geissele rifles and mags discussed after the AK trigger.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

I'm actually more interested in the 6ARC Geissele than a 6.5CM repeater. Which is good, since the equivalent Geissele 6.5CM gun is $6500.

[HeavyDuty]

One of the Howa 6mm ARC barreled actions is back on my radar - I was given access to private property that will allow shooting out to 1200 if I have something that reaches out. Brownells is out of stock on the 20” HB version but is taking backorders and will honor the current 10% sale. This gives me time to consider the rest of the build - time to pick a stock or chassis, and ponder optics. This may be a multiyear project.

[SecondsCount]

The KRG Bravo is a nice stock for the money but I don't know if there is a good AICS pattern mag that feeds 6ARC.

What is your glass budget?

[HeavyDuty]

Good info on the KRG Bravo - that’s one of the ones that caught my eye.

Glass budget is unknown. I may try to use a new scope I have sitting here in the box, a Brownells MPO 5-25X56MM FFP.

[SecondsCount]

Good info on the KRG Bravo - that’s one of the ones that caught my eye.

Glass budget is unknown. I may try to use a new scope I have sitting here in the box, a Brownells MPO 5-25X56MM FFP.

That's a good optic. I think LittleLebowski runs one.

[Biggy]

For a short time I was kind of interested in the 6 ARC but now am much more interested in the 6mm MAX cartidge, but but unless the military would adopt it at some, I will be sticking to my 18” barreled AR shooting 77 OTM ammo out to 500 yds or so.

[Skinner Precision, LLC]

I don't know if there is a good AICS pattern mag that feeds 6ARC.



MDT for 6mm ARC mags (or BR or Valkyrie) is the easiest button.

[HeavyDuty]

MDT for 6mm ARC mags (or BR or Valkyrie) is the easiest button.

It looks like MDT does metal and polymer magazines. Solves that problem - I would want to find a single feed sled, too.

[EricP]

Isn’t the Howa 6 Arc on a mini action as opposed to a short action? I don’t see a KRG Bravo or a way to feed from AI mags. I’d be happy to be wrong because that would be cool. My apprehension to the mini action was to need their proprietary mags

[HeavyDuty]

Isn’t the Howa 6 Arc on a mini action as opposed to a short action? I don’t see a KRG Bravo or a way to feed from AI mags. I’d be happy to be wrong because that would be cool. My apprehension to the mini action was to need their proprietary mags

Oh, crap. It is indeed a Mini action - I forgot about that. I’m not sure this is practical after all.

[littlejerry]

Oh, crap. It is indeed a Mini action - I forgot about that. I’m not sure this is practical after all.

https://mdttac.com/mdt-howa-mini-straight-fit-magazine-10-rnd/

[HeavyDuty]

https://mdttac.com/mdt-howa-mini-straight-fit-magazine-10-rnd/

$120 magazines!