Question about 1911 slide bump hitting disconnector ?

[Rmiked]

I am new to 1911s having recently acquired a Dan Wesson Specialist in 10mm. I am trying to learn all the aspects of the platform design and operation. It seems that when the slide is returning to battery (after firing and cocking the hammer) the leading edge of the bar that cocks the hammer, moves forward to strip a round from magazine and push it into the chamber. That same bar actuates the disconnector vertically with a milled groove in the rear of the bar. When I am charging my pistol from “slide lock” position (using the slide release) there is a “bump” when the leading edge of that bar hits the disconnector. The recoil spring provides enough force to overcome that resistance and function properly. I saw a Utube video where a gunsmith milled a tapered ramp on the leading edge of that bar on the center section that would hit the disconnector but left the outer edges 90 degrees to ensure proper round stripping. That looks like a nice modification. I am not going to do that to my 1911. But I noticed on the rear of that same bar , the firing pin stop that strikes the hammer, that edge has a radius on it to reduce the hammer resistance when cocking. If I was a gunsmith I think I would put a ramp on that edge that strikes the disconnector which would make the slide operation smoother and seems it could only make the chambering function more reliable. Any thoughts? And is there a name for “that bar” I keep referring to that cocks the hammer and actuates the disconnector? Thanks in advance

[rd62]

I am not a gunsmith and certainly not a 1911 expert.

I believe what you are referring to may be referred to as the disconnector rail. Breaking the edges and or polishing the head of the disconnector, firing pin stop radius, breach face edge, the disconnector relief in the slide and frame, etc can certainly smooth out the cycling of the slide, but material removal can also effect timing of unlocking, extraction, and ejection and should not be done haphazardly. For instance, flat bottom firing pin stops are a thing and serve a purpose with respect to the pistol operations above.

If you are having an issue or just want to smooth the action a conversation with a good smith or one of the more knowledgeable members here would be good.

[Rmiked]

Thanks for info. I am not having a problem but thought the gunsmith Utube was interesting. I’m sure there is a reason the leading edge of disconnector rail does not have a radius as a matter of routine. The top of disconnector is rounded to blunt the collision with disconnector rail. The idea of machining a ramp seemed like a nice idea. It would slightly delay the depressing of the disconnector but it seems to me that wouldn’t matter. But like you said, each can detail affect many things. The more I learn about the 1911 the more genius I see in the design. I am a John Browning fan. Thanks for putting a name on that part. Makes sense.

[Caballoflaco]

The term I’m most familiar with for that part is the disconnector rail.

Do a google search for marvel disconnector cut. You’ll see wide range of opinions on whether it’s necessary or not.

Also, check out and search the 1911addicts forum, while it ain’t what it was there is still a lot of knowledge there and most questions you could think to ask have probably been answered there too.

[David S.]

Do a google search for marvel disconnector cut. You’ll see wide range of opinions on whether it’s necessary or not. .

I did exactly that and came up with this video that seems to articulate it pretty well.

(I know nothing about 1911s, so I ASSume this video is accurate.)


https://youtu.be/WvVEkSNp_VE

[farscott]

A couple of comments:

1) Messing with the disconnect rail or the disconnect itself is a good way to reduce reliability. If you have to ask questions about how it works or why, leave it alone. Messing with the rail is a good way to need a new slide or a repair that requires welding. Messing with the disconnect can lead to a paperweight shaped like a pistol.

2) The radius on the firing pin stop is used to adjust how fast the gun cycles. More radius provides more leverage to cock the hammer, which helps rounds like 9x19, cycle the slide. Flat-bottomed stops with little or no radius can slow the slide as the slide impacts the hammer closer to the pivot point. For a round like 10mm, little or no radius is desirable as full-power 10mm is more energetic than .45 ACP. A bigger radius may look cool, but it may cause the slide to outrun the magazine springs. My 9x23 has a true flat-bottomed firing pin stop as the round moves the slide faster than a .45 ACP around which the pistol was designed.

Like everything else with a 1911, adjusting one thing can cause something else to not function as it should. The firing pin stop radius, the mainspring rate, and the magazine springs should be considered a system. Changing one may impact how well the others perform. Same with the recoil spring. I see a lot of 1911s that have way too much recoil spring, causing the muzzle to dip when the slide returns to battery.

[M2CattleCo]

Dan Wesson doesn’t bevel the rail and it does make it bumpy ride into battery.

The disconnector is beveled so it’s ok, but it wouldn’t hurt anything to break the corner if you want.

[Rmiked]

Farscott, I agree completely and openly admit my ignorance when speaking of 1911s. And my DW Specialists functions fine but there is a slight bump and it is to be expected since the disconnector rail must depress the disconnector. I just went up and disassembled my pistol and snapped a few pics. To my surprise Dan Wesson already beveled the leading edge of the disconnector rail. And they went completely across the width. I inserted a magazine with SPENT on the frame with the slide removed. The leading edge of the disconnector rail makes full width contact with the rear of casing to assure proper feeding. I included a pic of rail as it hits disconnector and one with rail impacting spent case. I also took a picture of the radius on the firing pin stop. I had seen pictures online of other 1911s without the beveled leading edge and assumed mine was the same. I am very impressed with the level of detail in the design of the Dan Wesson Specialists. But like I said, I am new to 1911s but have seen pics of several other 1911s without the beveled edge on disconnector rail.

[Rmiked]

Dan Wesson doesn’t bevel the rail and it does make it bumpy ride into battery.

The disconnector is beveled so it’s ok, but it wouldn’t hurt anything to break the corner if you want.

Since mine has it and it is new I wonder if this is a change that CZ ownership brought to DW 1911s? Looks. Like a subtle but nice feature.

[M2CattleCo]

Could be.

My last DW was a 9mm and it didn’t have it but that was 3-4 years ago.

[SW CQB 45]

are you are feeling the bump while hand cycling?

I feel it a lot with lighter recoil spring like 9mm (hand cycle).

I dont feel the bump using 45 and 16 lbs spring (hand cycle).

unless you have an unusually light recoil spring, during the firing process.... the slide speed will over ride any bump from hand cycling.

also, over time the surfaces will smooth out and lessen the bump.

I never liked Springfield Armory's disconnectors (MIM).... to me they were very sharp. I would drop a WC BP disconnector for replacement and it smoothed the "bump"

I am sure there is a more technical way of say all that. my 2 cents

[Rmiked]

Yes, I only feel it when hand cycling. And the pistol functions great. It is not an issue for me but for someone new to 1911s like me you would wonder if it’s normal the first time you feel it. And it is. But I must say mine has a beveled leading edge. I have read others complaining significantly about theirs and seeing their pics and now I know for those without the bevel, the bump would be much more noticeable. But if it functions fine, not an issue. The bevel on the firing pin stop probably influences function more significantly as the hammer is impacted. My DW Specialist in 10mm has a 22 lb recoil spring.

[Jim Watson]

There is another source of a bump.
My SA had a bad one, if I eased the slide down, it would stop on the disconnector. Drop the slide or shoot and it would close but it was obviously operating on the edge of reliability.

It turned out that the tip of the center leg of the sear spring was so rough and sharp that it was digging into the disconnector bevel and holding it up a lot harder than just spring tension. FLG put in a Colt sear spring and stoned the gouges out of the disconnector bevel and the gun is still soldiering on as of last Saturday.

[Caballoflaco]

I did exactly that and came up with this video that seems to articulate it pretty well.

(I know nothing about 1911s, so I ASSume this video is accurate.)

Yes and if you’ll notice the extra width on disconnector rail of the .45 slide vs the 10mm slide so the ejector can be more inboard you’ll see why some smiths/ companies don’t do the cut on the smaller caliber slides since it leaves so little room on the front of the rail to feed Cartridges from the magazine.

.45 slide from video
72143


10mm slide from rmiked
72144

[Rmiked]

That’s a good point. The 45 is definitely wider. I included a pic of my rail engaging the base of a spent cartridge. I inserted the spent case under the extractor and viewed it from the bottom with slide off frame. The bottom edge of the case is still well vertically separated from the bevel on my disconnector. So the entire height of the base of cartridge is fully supported by the breech face. But no question the larger caliber has more potential rail width if the manufacturer chooses to machine it that way. I suppose the 9mm is even narrower than the 10mm? But that 22 lb recoil spring is driving the slide into the case to strip it and feed it into the ramped barrel (in case of 10mm) and on into the chamber. I’m thinking of getting the Wilson Combat 24# flat wire recoil spring and trying it in my Specialist. I would expect slower slide velocity moving rearward, shorter ejection distance and slightly less felt recoil. My pistol ejects cases 15 feet with factory setup. So I don’t expect any ejection issues. But really won’t know until trying it.

[Trooper224]

Rmiked, are you an engineer?

[Rmiked]

Rmiked, are you an engineer?

Yes. I am an engineer. I like to understand how things work.

[Trooper224]

Yes. I am an engineer. I like to understand how things work.

Thanks, I assumed as much. I''ve never known anyone other than an engineer to obsess over minutia like this. I admire your desire for knowledge, just don't let it convince you there are problems were none exist.

[gato naranja]

There is another source of a bump.
My SA had a bad one, if I eased the slide down, it would stop on the disconnector. Drop the slide or shoot and it would close but it was obviously operating on the edge of reliability.

It turned out that the tip of the center leg of the sear spring was so rough and sharp that it was digging into the disconnector bevel and holding it up a lot harder than just spring tension. FLG put in a Colt sear spring and stoned the gouges out of the disconnector bevel and the gun is still soldiering on as of last Saturday.

I experienced this on two Springfield ROs... one had the problem to a small degree, the other more serious. The cure was, as you say, getting the pertinent part of the sear spring to travel smoothly across the corresponding "flat" on the disconnector.

[Rmiked]

I am definitely learning about this platform (1911). And I am appreciating more each week , the quality and attention to detail I am seeing in this Dan Wesson Specialist. Just for fun I decided to measure the “frame-to-slide” fit on my pistol. Using my dial caliper, I measured the “inside width” of the grooves on the slide and got 0.750”. I then measured the outside width of the corresponding frame rails and got 0.749”. This would be on a typical worksheet of a custom gunmaker when laying out a pistol with desired endpoint. I repeated the measurements several times. So I’m seeing a tightness of 0.001” between the frame and slide. I guess there can be a tighter fit but I wonder if it would be more likely to gall or seize? It’s a pleasure to buy a product and as you get familiar with it have the product continue to exceed your expectations. Admittedly, being a novice to 1911s, my expectations were undefined. But the advice I got here from PF, related to the “you get what you pay for”, or the “marginal improvement” of a full custom pistol over a DW, is a situation of diminishing returns, is playing out for me. Don’t get me wrong, if I was rich I would probably get a Nighthawk or something comparable. But I’m not rich. But after acquiring the DW Specialist I’m wondering what a head to head comparison would look like? Would I rather have 2 Specialists (one in 10mm and one in 45 ACP) or 1 high dollar full custom (in caliber of choice)? Certainly thought provoking.

[Caballoflaco]

Rmiked if you want to go further down the measuring rabbit hole do a search on the 1911addicts and 1911forums on how to properly measure the frame and slide on a 1911. You’ll learn about several different techniques and tools that smiths use to take all the measurements they need to make sure they end up with a quality fit.

ETA: or just spend some time browsing the gunsmithing subforum on either forum. While there aren’t as many Smith’s posting in the past there is still a lot of good info and answers to questions you didn’t know you had on those sites.

[Rmiked]

I may take a look at that. Thanks. But honestly mine greatly exceeds what I thought was possible. I can imagine the more loose fitting pistols being very reliable in feeding and ejection. Mine is very reliable even though seems tight in slide-frame fit and barrel/lug and barrel/bushing lockup. And the chamber I. D. is dead-on the I.D. On the SAAMI drawings for 10mm. My “dive” into the 1911 world has revealed that some of these pistols (match quality) is more like a jeweler making a watch than what I imagined was involved in building a pistol. I imagine these high end pistol-smiths (like Nighthawk or comparable) have to balance any more precision than I’m seeing with Dan Wesson with operating reliability. My pistol is way more accurate than me. I wouldn’t want any of it any tighter. I would be afraid it may become less reliable.

[Caballoflaco]

Here’s a link to make it super easy. I’m not posting this up in regards to your specific pistol needing help, but as one of the better free resources to learn the in-depth mechanics of the system. As you mentioned earlier in the thread you’re interested in how they work and you’ve obviously spent some time pondering on it.

https://www.1911addicts.com/forums/1911-gunsmithing.46/

FWIW if I had 5 grand to drop on a pistol I would spend it on a Joe Chamber’s 1911 University class. While I don’t use 1911’s for anything serious at the moment I too enjoying occasionally geeking out on all the little details and spending a week building my own custom blaster under the tutelage of a dude who knows what he’s doing would be a bucket list vacation for me.

[JAH 3rd]

Seems like you are satisfied with you DW 10mm. Personally, I would get another DW in .45acp. Comparisons between the two would be fun to do, sorta apples to apples. And if the DW is more accurate than you are, why invest in a custom since it will also be more accurate than you.....or me for that matter. I've gone from MOA to MOB....minute of barn over the years.

The only complaint I have with my DW A2 is thumb safety. The safety extends past the backstrap and irritates the web of my hand, between thumb and index finger. Even just handling the pistol a few minutes causes the irritation to begin. I took my Springfield Loaded .45 and compared it to the DW. The Springfield was like..........ahhhhhh. No irritation at all. When I look at 1911s online, I gravitate to the thumb safety to see how it fits in relation to the backstrap. I know a production pistol can vary a bit in the fit of the thumb safety, but I still like to take a look at the TS fit.

Glad you are enjoying your DW!

[M2CattleCo]

Everyone has a different perception of tight. I’ve never seen a DW that was anything close to tight, but whatever.

If a 1911 is built right, it won’t be tight by 1911 standards but people not familiar with them will think they’re like a bank vault. Those 1911s will be the most reliable. Sloppy does not in any way equal reliable.

[Rmiked]

Seems like you are satisfied with you DW 10mm. Personally, I would get another DW in .45acp. Comparisons between the two would be fun to do, sorta apples to apples. And if the DW is more accurate than you are, why invest in a custom since it will also be more accurate than you.....or me for that matter. I've gone from MOA to MOB....minute of barn over the years.

The only complaint I have with my DW A2 is thumb safety. The safety extends past the backstrap and irritates the web of my hand, between thumb and index finger. Even just handling the pistol a few minutes causes the irritation to begin. I took my Springfield Loaded .45 and compared it to the DW. The Springfield was like..........ahhhhhh. No irritation at all. When I look at 1911s online, I gravitate to the thumb safety to see how it fits in relation to the backstrap. I know a production pistol can vary a bit in the fit of the thumb safety, but I still like to take a look at the TS fit.

Glad you are enjoying your DW!

I agree about accuracy. I would not be able to appreciate anything better than my DW. So I can’t ever see me spending any more $$ than I did on this one. My thumb safety is ambi and neither side extends beyond grip safety. I looked at that and felt it before buying. One reason I won’t buy online.

[Rmiked]

Everyone has a different perception of tight. I’ve never seen a DW that was anything close to tight, but whatever.

If a 1911 is built right, it won’t be tight by 1911 standards but people not familiar with them will think they’re like a bank vault. Those 1911s will be the most reliable. Sloppy does not in any way equal reliable.

I freely admit I am just now getting experience with 1911s. When I started looking for my first one I had shot Remington R1 and a ROCK Island Armory, both owned by friends and both in 45 ACP. They both shot and functioned well. I started getting feedback from PF guys about the difference between the $700-900 pistols and a DW. I also wanted some features on my first 1911 that were not on the less expensive models (under $1000). I realize the Dan Wessons are not Les Baer’s, when it comes to tightness like “hard-fit” etc. With the Specialist I kind of expected an all steel pistol with all the nice features (night sights, magwell, front and back strap checkering, front slide serrations, ambi safety) but built like the less expensive pistols. After getting the DW, taking it apart, shooting it, it is actually built better IMO than the cheaper ones I had handled. When you assemble them there is a difference when installing the barrel bushing or slide stop. I actually measured the slide-frame clearance at 0.001”. I know there are pistols out there much tighter. But some of the Les Baer owners complain about the difficulty of taking the pistol apart because it’s so tight. So in all my ignorance I am a DW fan for now. I do like the idea of having a pistol made just for me (full custom). I like hearing that guy from Alchemy (Rob, I believe) talk about how he builds 1911s. I think the reputation Les Baer has is nice for being so tight. And I believe you have had many high dollar 1911s so I believe you if you say DWs aren’t that tight. When choosing my first 1911 and assuming I would never get another, the majority of the feedback from PF was it is hard to beat DW. So that’s what I got. I am very pleased at this point. And I appreciate your experience and all the others here at PF.

[farscott]

Baer guns exhibit barrel springing, which is part of the reason a new Baer's slide is hard to rack. While the five-inch guns will wear into a fit, it is not uncommon for Baer pistols to shear barrel lugs, even with the private-labeled Kart barrel. I have seen strong men struggle to rack the slide on a new Baer. It is due to poor barrel fit. The springing can be shown by taking a new Baer in one hand with the finger of the palm wrapped around the slide and the thumb around the grip safety. While closing the fingers down and towards the thumb, use the thumb to press on the grip safety. Voila, the barrel has unlocked from the slide and the slide moves freely.

[Rmiked]

That sounds complicated.

[Trooper224]

I'm a long time 1911 user, but I'm not a 1911 snob.

I've owned a DW Valor for several years and I've dealt with a lot of Baers, Wilsons, Browns, etc. If I wanted something truly better than a DW, I'd bypass all of those semi-production boutique brands and go with a true one-off custom build. When compared to a DW, the additional cost of those guns simply isn't justified.

Your Specialist has nothing to apologize for, it's a solid piece.

[willie]

The o.p. has a very fine pistol. He could spend an extra $1500 on a custom job and then discover that it did not shoot better than the one he has. Since he is an engineer, he will soon discover that tight is ok but that too tight is not. I enjoy pointing out that in some cases, when one buys a custom made 1911, the guy or gal who put it together may have worked at a pizza joint the year before. You never know.