P99 AS question

[gunrascal]

I'm sure this has been asked and discussed many times, but for an updated clarification, can the p99AS be safely carried in AS mode? (a search on the Walther forum gives no definitive answer)

[Evil_Ed]

Yes, that is how it was designed...think of it more like LEM in that there's a long but very light first pull. All of the internal safeties are still engaged as far as I know...

Some people are off-put by the light pull, but I'll bet you those same people don't have any problems carrying a PPQ. Which is all AS mode is, except the trigger is further forward/has a longer first pull.

Edit - personally when I carry mine (not that often these days)...it's decocked. Not because I don't like AS mode, but because I dry fire practice from decocked...may as well carry how I practice?

[P30]

The P99 manual states:

carl-walther.com/uploads/media/manuals/262_81_39_b_P99_USA.pdf (https://carl-walther.com/uploads/media/manuals/262_81_39_b_P99_USA.pdf) (page 17):

3.3 Decocker (P99 AS)

The decocker offers a safe way of de-cocking the P99 AS. The decocker is routinely used to de-cock the striker. De-cock the P99 AS after loading, before holstering and prior to disassembly. [...]

72109

The manuals (in several languages) are linked on Walther's website:
carl-walther.com/defense/products/p/2689421 (https://carl-walther.com/defense/products/p/2689421) (scroll down, see "Downloads")

[gunrascal]

The above is what I remember from my first readings on this. I carry mine decocked, however, the light LEM, PPQ, and new PDP would seem to have less margin for miscalculation or change of circumstances.

[MattyD380]

The AS trigger in a P99 is too light for me to feel safe carrying (as in, not decocked). But that’s a personal choice, I suppose. I own a P99 (and not a PPQ or PDP) because it has a decocker. The AS (aka, single action) is a freakin great trigger, though. And the DA pull ain’t bad either.

[Elwin]

You CAN, but why?

One, there’s no good way to return it to AS mode after firing. In other words you can’t easily “reset” the AS trigger when coming off target, moving, holstering, etc. like you could safe a SA pistol or decock a DA/SA (including the P99 if you run it like one). If the idea is that AS mode is a safety-enhancing feature like a manual safety or a DA pull, this is a problem. Even if the AS mode is a safety plus, you’re still running around without it a good amount of the time, which would suggest you may be better off just using a PPQ/PDP and always having the gun in the same condition.

Which leads to:

Two, why run a P99 at all if that’s the plan? If the goal is a slightly safer striker trigger, it seems a stock Glock or one with a NY-1 trigger makes more sense.

I carried P99s for a while and used the decocker just as I would on any other gun that had one. If I hadn’t wanted to use it, I would have used a different pistol.

I’d also argue the AS mode doesn’t actually do much of anything. It’s so incredibly light I never even noticed it when firing the first round after a slide lock reload, for example.

[MattyD380]

I carried P99s for a while and used the decocker just as I would on any other gun that had one. If I hadn’t wanted to use it, I would have used a different pistol.

I’d also argue the AS mode doesn’t actually do much of anything. It’s so incredibly light I never even noticed it when firing the first round after a slide lock reload, for example.

Well said. Pretty much sums up my take on the P99. Which I love, BTW.

[olstyn]

Agreed with the above posters. On some level, it's no less safe to carry a P99 in AS mode than it is to carry a PPQ or PDP, but if you're going to do that, it would make far more sense to carry a PPQ or PDP. The P99 was designed as a DA/SA pistol. Hell, I even decock mine before holstering when I'm registered for Limited in a USPSA match...

[olstyn]

One, there’s no good way to return it to AS mode after firing.

That depends on how you define "good," I guess. Retracting the slide by about 1/4" or 1/2" is enough to reset it into AS mode from SA mode. Frankly, I think it's silly to do that, but it's definitely possible.

[gunrascal]

Elwin: After firing, doesn't the p99 default to AS mode; "One, there’s no good way to return it to AS mode after firing."

[olstyn]

Elwin: After firing, doesn't the p99 default to AS mode; "One, there’s no good way to return it to AS mode after firing."

Negative. After firing, it's in SA mode, just like any DA/SA gun. AS is only engaged when the slide is retracted without the trigger pressed.

[Elwin]

Yep, AS mode doesn’t happen automatically. The slide has to move back however far, so the only time it’s encountered during what I’d call normal use is after a slide lock reload or clearing a malfunction (and during administrative tasks like loading, clearing, press checking, etc.).

And Olstyn is also right. I’d just argue that essentially doing a press check isn’t a good way to “re safe” a gun. You may get it done before reholstering, but certainly not when coming off target, moving, or doing anything else where your focus is supposed to stay down range. Too awkward and slow. We wouldn’t use manual safeties or decockers if they required completely breaking our grip and carefully moving the slide just far enough but not too far (too far and you eject a round or cause a malfunction).

[gunrascal]

Well I like the gun and shoot it well, but through the past three decades, I've transitioned from revolver to TDA to p99 and now carry a H&K p2000 TGS LEM. It's a very simple and consistent platform, not for everyone, but good for me. The p99 has been safe kept and I may sell it. Thank you for the clarifications.

[gc70]

A P99 defaults to AS mode after the slide is racked to chamber a round.

After firing, a P99 defaults to SA mode at trigger reset.

[P30]

the light LEM, PPQ, and new PDP would seem to have less margin for miscalculation or change of circumstances.
When you holster an LEM pistol, you can and should put your thumb on the hammer. This adds safety.

You can't do this with the P99 AS.

So I don't think, LEM has less margin of safety than AS.

Todd Green recommended putting the thumb on the hammer when holstering an LEM pistol. AFAIK the "gadget" for Glock pistols is quite popular in this forum, it's the same idea.

[olstyn]

When you holster an LEM pistol, you can and should put your thumb on the hammer. This adds safety.

You can't do this with the P99 AS.

As I have previously stated several times on this forum, that's not true. Holding the decocker button of a P99 down blocks forward travel of the striker. That means that it can be used in much the same way as the hammer of a hammer fired pistol. I have personally verified this by chambering a primed but otherwise empty case in a P99c, holding down the decocker button, and pulling the trigger through its entire stroke. When this is done, the striker is pulled back and released, but a portion of the decocker button interacts with a lug on the top of the striker, interrupting its forward travel before it can impact the primer even though pulling the trigger deactivates the striker block. You get a click, but no bang.

Granted, using this method of course results in the pistol being decocked and thus not in AS mode, but as you and others have stated earlier in the thread, DA mode is how it's designed to be carried anyway.

[That Guy]

As I have previously stated several times on this forum, that's not true.

P30 was referring to the original posters idea of carrying a P99 in the cocked but trigger forward mode.