PA Holosun 507c & 509t2 w/ ACSS Vulcan

[joshs]

I decided to give the new 507 with Vulcan reticle (https://www.primaryarms.com/holosun-hs507c-v2-acss-pistol-red-dot-sight-acss-reticle) a try because I've had limited practice time in the last year. While I usually have no issue finding the dot on an RMR or Acro, I have had some problems when shooting SHO or WHO, or when I get a bad grip when drawing. I've only had the new 507 for a few days, but my initial impressions are very positive. The outer ring serves it's purpose perfectly. It is also very intuitive and makes alignment easier with very little practice.

I wasn't sure how much I would like the chevron as a dot replacement, but it's growing on me. The outer ring with the donut from the 407co would be an interesting reticle option as well.

[Adam]

There are guys raving about it and guys who think it isn't a great improvement or advancement. I am definitely leaning in the camp of the former. It is noticeably easier for my to subconsciously correct dot placement with the ACSS. But, I have it and a plain dot to play with so time will tell.

[snow white]

I absolutely see the utility in the large circle. I think it seems superfluous on the square range in ideal conditions. Once you start shooting more off hand and get into some crazy positions I think its utility becomes apparent.

[mrozowjj]

I absolutely see the utility in the large circle. I think it seems superfluous on the square range in ideal conditions. Once you start shooting more off hand and get into some crazy positions I think its utility becomes apparent.

I think this is the thing that is being missed by many people/reviewers. They say it's great for new shooters to learn how to use a dot on a pistol and they think it isn't really needed for people with lots of practice using a dot and that is true but it does have some benefit to experienced shooters shooting from odd angles, under barricades etc.

[snow white]

I think this is the thing that is being missed by many people/reviewers. They say it's great for new shooters to learn how to use a dot on a pistol and they think it isn't really needed for people with lots of practice using a dot and that is true but it does have some benefit to experienced shooters shooting from odd angles, under barricades etc.

Yes. Right now get into some strange position and draw your pistol like its for your life. Will you get a perfect sight picture? Maybe...probably.....but maybe not. And the maybe not might happen when you need the dot the most.

[joshs]

I've seen lots of higher level USPSA shooters dot hunt (and I've done it myself). Stages that require pulling an activator rope with the shooter's right hand while shooting through a tiny port tend to highlight alignment issues pretty quickly. But, I've lost to dot even when shooting around an awkward barricade freestyle. The ACSS reticle seems like a viable solution to alignment problems. The only downside I've noticed so far is that the outer ring does tend to bloom a little if the intensity is too high for the lighting conditions. This may be more of an issue for me because I'm fairly short, and I shoot with my elbows bent farther than many shooters, so the optic is closer to my face.

[LittleLebowski]

These are back in stock, $309.

https://www.primaryarms.com/holosun-hs507c-v2-acss-pistol-red-dot-sight-acss-reticle

[YVK]

I really like the idea but, having seen now-forgotten DPP with a 7 MOA triangle dot, I don't want to adjust to a chevron. A 5-6 MOA dot would've been nice.

[MVS]

Not a fan myself. It will be coming off my main gun and going onto something else. With so much time on a regular dot i don't care for the chevron. It is fine for drills and the like but with partial targets at speed like in a match, it slows me down. The big outer circle has messed with me as well when doing things like fast transitions. I am used to shooting when I see a streak of red on the target, well that is no good if that streak is the outer circle. Back to the SRO I guess.

[EVP]

Anyone have any further experience with this reticle option? Are they or will they be available for other optics like the 509?




I have kinda experienced some of the things the OP described when shooting from odd positions SHO/WHO.
Seems like a good reticle option to have my wife start learning the dot.

[NH Shooter]

I guess I've been living under a rock.

Though I wish it was a dot instead of a chevron, this is genius! Because eye/hand coordination is not one of my strong suits, I always have to tweak sight alignment when I present on target. It's so quick and intuitive for me I had to specifically look to see that I'm doing it.

Finding the dot (so I've read) is a thing. It will be certainly be a thing for me. I can absolutely, 100% see how that 250 MOA circle will a major benefit for me finding Waldo in the middle of the pizza.

Short of Trijicon offering this in a RMR, I believe I've found a new leading contender for my upcoming MRDS purchase.

[Noah]

Anyone have any further experience with this reticle option? Are they or will they be available for other optics like the 509?


I have kinda experienced some of the things the OP described when shooting from odd positions SHO/WHO.
Seems like a good reticle option to have my wife start learning the dot.


This was announced for the 509T in the New 2022 product announcements today!

[boing]

This was announced for the 509T in the New 2022 product announcements today!

Where was this?

[Noah]

Where was this?

https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-new-products#rs10

[EVP]

This was announced for the 509T in the New 2022 product announcements today!

Nice!


I got played I literally just talked with Primary Arms and asked if they had plans to put the ACSS reticle in the 509T and they told me they had now plans to….. but I guess they had to show their poker face.

[Clusterfrack]

Reticle larger than the window. That’s a very clever design. I can’t see a disadvantage. I wish it came with a standard dot as the primary aiming point.

[RevolverRob]

What is the "industry standard" footprint? News to me there was a standard.

[Noah]

What is the "industry standard" footprint? News to me there was a standard.

I'm sure they are trying to say RMR footprint without saying RMR footprint.

[NH Shooter]

Reticle larger than the window. That’s a very clever design. I can’t see a disadvantage. I wish it came with a standard dot as the primary aiming point.

Indeed. The 10 MOA chevron won't work for me due to astigmatism, but a 1 MOA dot would be manageable.

[Noah]

Indeed. The 10 MOA chevron won't work for me due to astigmatism, but a 1 MOA dot would be manageable.


I'm in the same boat here. I can't use the circle, circle dot, or chevron due to how me astigmatism works in mixed lighting where I have the dot bright enough for sunlight or a flashlight.

[Thn9mm]

I have the Vulcan ACSS on a Shadow systems XR920, a shadow systems MR918, and a Beretta 92 LTT. The base of the chevron reticle is a great offset aiming point for close distance (i.e. 3 yds). Sage Dynamics has the Eleanor drill: one precision shot within a ONE inch circle (and cutting the line fails) in the head and transition to three rounds within 3 x 4 inch rectangle in the chest. Par time 2.5 sec https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiW4Az7buVw&ab_channel=SageDynamics

WIth a single red dot, i often overshoot the one inch circle and cut the line, which does not count in this drill. The round has to be within the circle. With the chevron base, it falls perfectly center within the one inch circle. The base of the chevron is also the aiming point for a 100 yard shot per instruction manual. I love this reticle.

[NH Shooter]

If I knew my eyesight could render the chevron sharp, I'd be all over it. IMO for those with good eyesight, this is a reticle worth a serious look.

[Oldherkpilot]

A buddy of mine has eye problems (never heard of the condition but now have greater respect for his shooting) that an RDS helps but the dot brings its own problems. He put the chevron reticle with the huge ring on his M&P and found it to help. I am not a very experienced dot shooter but i found it quite easy to adapt to the reticle. His was green, not sure if that was significant for his eye problem.

[GearFondler]

I'd need to try one out to see for myself, but I fear the chevron would tend to make me focus on it instead of the target... Fine for precision shots but not for Speed. Yes, it would be my fault, not the reticles, but I sure would like to see this offered in a 5moa dot version.

[NH Shooter]

I'd need to try one out to see for myself, but I fear the chevron would tend to make me focus on it instead of the target.

When I tried several mini-ACOGs with the chevron, that was my experience as well. For rifle shooting I certainly placed a much higher priority on precision vs. speed. Because the chevron was never perfectly sharp (no adjustable eyepiece/diopter on the ACOG), it became an exercise in frustration discerning the exact tip of the chevron. My rifles are now equipped with scopes with adjustable eyepieces to render the etched reticles perfectly sharp.

For pistol use I think the 10 MOA chevron would be fine providing my eyesight could render it reasonably well. I too wish there was a way of looking through one short of having to actually make the purchase.

[JCN]

Ordered a 509t ACSS for rainy PCC but wondering if it wouldn’t be a good trainer for my wife’s open dry gun….

[EVP]

I have grown to like the ACSS reticle especially in green compared to my RMR06. I don’t need or see the outer circle and don’t even see it unless I am shooting with my support hand or I am playing around with a VTAC barricade.


JCN I heard the 509 ACSS footprint is a little different then regular 509. I also think the reticle would be great for my wife and her to get accustomed to a PMO as she does not care to put in the effort with something like a RMR. Please let us know what you think once you get some time on it.

[MandoWookie]

Only one session so far, but results positive with my 507 ACSS. Mine is the green dot.
First PMO, also I have pretty bad astigmatism, but didnt have any issues seeing it clearly, unless I focused on the reticule specifically. If I looked past it and focused on the target( which is my understanding is the correct method), it was perfect.

So at least for me, it works great. Range only goes to 50ft, but normally I struggle to keep 10 rounds on a B8 repair center at that range, but was able to keep them in the 9 and 10 rings in the black.

Speed hasn't been effected much, but that's because my default is slow, and have struggled to push faster.

I do notice some amount of distortion in the view through the lens, but not enough bother me.

[Bergeron]

I’m excited about an enclosed-emitter with a “larger than window ring”- but in line with others here, I would prefer a dot to the chevron.

[JCN]

I’m excited about an enclosed-emitter with a “larger than window ring”- but in line with others here, I would prefer a dot to the chevron.

I’m interested in the chevron as a height over bore ranging reticle for the PCC. :)

If I can go 25 yards at tip of the chevron and under the chevron for close stuff I’ll be stoked.

Much happier that it’s a chevron rather than the DPP triangle that obscured vision.

[Wake27]

I've only shot mine once but really like it, maybe more than my RM06. I also want to try one on the Badger C1 j-arm because I think it may work perfectly for where I have that mounted. I should be shooting it tomorrow in a 2 gun match.

[Wake27]

I've only shot mine once but really like it, maybe more than my RM06. I also want to try one on the Badger C1 j-arm because I think it may work perfectly for where I have that mounted. I should be shooting it tomorrow in a 2 gun match.

[Clusterfrack]

I bought a 509t2 ACSS to try on a Shadow2 I'm having milled at Stone Bridge Gunworks for a SRO footprint. The SRO footprint length is 46mm, and the Holosun 509t2 ACSS footprint length 45.2mm. So, I think this should all work out. If not, or if I don't like it I can fall back on a SRO.

Just playing around with the optic, I don't mind the chevron at all. It provides a good flash sight picture, and a nice precise aim point if needed. The big circle is very cool. It makes the window size (virtually) 2x wider and 2x taller.

I'll post more info after the project is complete.


I have grown to like the ACSS reticle especially in green compared to my RMR06. I don’t need or see the outer circle and don’t even see it unless I am shooting with my support hand or I am playing around with a VTAC barricade.


JCN I heard the 509 ACSS footprint is a little different then regular 509. I also think the reticle would be great for my wife and her to get accustomed to a PMO as she does not care to put in the effort with something like a RMR. Please let us know what you think once you get some time on it.

[EVP]

Good to hear. Yes please keep us updated. After playing around with it for awhile I decided to send my Elite LTT slide to get milled.

[Wake27]

So I shot pistol really well yesterday, surprisingly well given everything. I have to imagine the ACSS Vulcan is the majority of why. I’ll probably post the go pro vids just because I have them, but I’m super impressed. I’ve only ever shot my Roland Special (with Overwatch trigger package) in classes and competitions. It’s my primary carry and my primary pistol so I shoot that way more than anything. I have about 10k rounds on it vs about 500 on the G45 I shot yesterday. The 45 is completely stock aside from Vickers/TD slide catch and mag release. I also haven’t shot pistol competitively or in a class since 2020 I think and have had less than 15 range trips between then and now where I touched pistol I’m pretty sure. I also don’t dry fire at all and I was shooting Lawman 124gr which is a bit snappy out of an uncomped pistol compared to my RS.

So all that said, the only things that I can think helped me shoot well were the longer grip of the G45 and the Holosun w/ ACSS Vulcan.


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[Wake27]

Keep in mind that I'm an average shooter and competitor at best right now. Oh and I was in full kit since I'm doing a run n gun this summer in full kit.


https://youtu.be/RlDMlz1vP4c


https://youtu.be/64RcNbKfr48

[JCN]

Wake27 that moving Texas Star was FIRE. Very impressive!

[Wake27]

Wake27 that moving Texas Star was FIRE. Very impressive!

I was tempted to replace my RM06 with another one of these before the match. Even more tempted now... I'll probably sell my original 507 with the big buttons and then put one of these on my LPVO offset and run both for a little while first but that older Holosun has been beat a little during 3 gun and had no issues.

[JCN]

Clusterfrack
Glock26

88475

Couple things I noticed…

On an MPX, I ran out of elevation adjustment.

And the optic just sat a whiff too low.

So I shimmed it with RMR sealing plates I had lying around and I scavenged a 1 degree angled plate.

Sandwiched them together with E6000 to prevent sliding and now it’s the right height and I have enough adjustment.

First impression was that the 250 MOA ring was distracting and annoying.

I was delighted to find out I could turn it off and just leave the chevron which gets bright enough to use in sunlight.

I’ll shoot it sometime but it’s like what the triangle DPP should have been. I like it (minus the big circle).

[JCN]

In thinking about it more, I think I can characterize what’s happening with the optic.

As a single dot shooter, I’m used to having my eyes notice and train in on dot.

The 250 MOA ring is far enough away from center that it is distracting and catches my attention like an SRO false dot does.

There’s a delay in mental processing as my brain notices this red in the periphery and says “wait, is your index off?” and takes an extra mental step over “see dot shoot dot.”

This might be exacerbated by the lack of dot movement and the distance of eye to optic on a long gun, but I don’t find it useable.

What the optic does for me is gives me a >2 MOA center in an enclosed package bright enough for sunlight.

[Wake27]

This might be exacerbated by the lack of dot movement and the distance of eye to optic on a long gun, but I don’t find it useable.

Given the purpose of the reticle, I don’t find it surprising. It was designed for a fairly specific use. I still want to get one to put on my offset and see how well that works but based on positioning, it’d be pretty close to full presentation for me on a pistol.

I also think reticle preference is worth noting for those considering this. I prefer what some people call busy reticles, my favorite is probably the EXPS 3-2. I don’t understand those that like just having a dot but I know many that are the opposite. JCN do you prefer one or the other?


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[JCN]

Given the purpose of the reticle, I don’t find it surprising. It was designed for a fairly specific use. I still want to get one to put on my offset and see how well that works but based on positioning, it’d be pretty close to full presentation for me on a pistol.

I also think reticle preference is worth noting for those considering this. I prefer what some people call busy reticles, my favorite is probably the EXPS 3-2. I don’t understand those that like just having a dot but I know many that are the opposite. JCN do you prefer one or the other?

What was the specific use? Help locating the dot? Under recoil? I could see that I guess.

But I wonder if it might distract from pure learning and act as a crutch like BUIS to help find the center dot. It changes the visual focus to look at different things and I suspect it’ll be slower for me as a center dot shooter. My mechanics are such that I don’t want / need help finding the dot.

Regarding reticle preference, I touched on it a little before in some of the MPX and eye dominance threads, but I’m a comparative target and dot with same eye shooter and use my non-dom eye for depth and movement.

When I use a larger or busier reticle, I can’t “see through” the dot to the target as well with my dom eye and the superimposition calculation slows me down.

I suspect this might not bother long-standing high level iron trained shooters as much, but highest level dot shooters (Max Michel, Grauffel, JJ, Christian) don’t support occluded optic training (which is basically what a bright 65MOA Holosun 510/512 winds up being).

[Clusterfrack]

I mostly agree with everything JCN said. Unless a busy reticle serves a critical purpose (e.g. wind & elevation holds, mover leads), I prefer simple center dot or other shape. The ACSS circle is clever from an engineering perspective, so I wanted to try it. It may be neutral, distracting--or maybe helpful in odd situations like WHO in a fuct position where there's a high likelihood of deviation from index. Time will tell.

I can't see how the big circle is helpful on a long gun.

[JCN]

Wake27

Regarding offset use on a long gun, I have a triangle DPP offset mount.

I could see the use of the chevron 509. It helps you know how angled to angle for your zero as opposed to a dot.

But the circle ring I think at 250 MOA is too far off center to be useful aiming (maybe to find the center dot?) but I think a laser might be more helpful in those types of situations?

[Wake27]

What was the specific use? Help locating the dot? Under recoil? I could see that I guess.

From Primary Arms…

The revolutionary patent-pending ACSS Vulcan reticle provides a large circle guiding the eyes towards the 10 MOA center chevron, eliminating one of the biggest challenges for shooters new to slide-mounted red dots. If you are off-center, a portion of this outer circle will appear in the window to give you an instant reference on how to get centered. The circle phases out of the sight window completely when the center chevron is properly aligned in the sight window. This patent-pending reticle function significantly improves sight acquisition. It takes the common frustration of hunting for the center reticle out of the equation. Don't need the circle? It can be easily deactivated to extend the battery even further.


I can't see how the big circle is helpful on a long gun.

I’m think shooting under a VTAC with an LPVO and this as the offset.


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[Clusterfrack]

I’m think shooting under a VTAC with an LPVO and this as the offset.


Good idea. Wonky positions where having the dot appear is more difficult.

[Wake27]

Good idea. Wonky positions where having the dot appear is more difficult.

Definitely a niche use but my local rifle match always has one stage with a VTAC and two IPSC targets down at 100m, spread as far as the berm allows. It’s the only time I get to shoot the VTAC and/or awkward positions in the last several years, so there have been times that just getting behind a micro RDS took a second. Even a good LPVO like the 1-6 Razor has been difficult so this paired with my 1-10 Razor may end up working really well. Unfortunately I probably won’t know for about a month, I think I’m going to chrono tomorrow instead of the match.


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[JCN]

From Primary Arms…

The revolutionary patent-pending ACSS Vulcan reticle provides a large circle guiding the eyes towards the 10 MOA center chevron, eliminating one of the biggest challenges for shooters new to slide-mounted red dots. If you are off-center, a portion of this outer circle will appear in the window to give you an instant reference on how to get centered. The circle phases out of the sight window completely when the center chevron is properly aligned in the sight window. This patent-pending reticle function significantly improves sight acquisition. It takes the common frustration of hunting for the center reticle out of the equation. Don't need the circle? It can be easily deactivated to extend the battery even further.



Gotcha. So like the crutch of using BUIS to locate your dot. Same kind of shifting focus.

Maybe it’s a long gun close to eye thing but the circle didn’t phase out of the window for me. It was still visible when on target with the chevron.

[Wake27]

Gotcha. So like the crutch of using BUIS to locate your dot. Same kind of shifting focus.

Maybe it’s a long gun close to eye thing but the circle didn’t phase out of the window for me. It was still visible when on target with the chevron.

Crutch, training aid, etc.

Mounting location on the long gun absolutely will determine that. My Badger C1’s front offset mount is close to where I think it needs to be, I just haven’t pulled this dot off of my Glock or bought a second one to test yet.


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[JCN]

Crutch, training aid, etc.

Mounting location on the long gun absolutely will determine that. My Badger C1’s front offset mount is close to where I think it needs to be, I just haven’t pulled this dot off of my Glock or bought a second one to test yet.


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Interested in what you think when you try it out.

Crutch versus training aid…

I think they can be two different things. I think if people aren’t careful they never learn to ride a bike if they never try riding without training wheels. They just don’t know what they don’t know.

My wife never did any draws before a month ago and she’s finding a dot very well now. We did the 32MOA circle Holosun as a training aid in dry but use a single dot in live to prevent a crutch. The 32 is close enough to the center that it doesn’t pull visual focus away.


https://youtu.be/EYKtrmSK7i4

[Clusterfrack]

Gotcha. So like the crutch of using BUIS to locate your dot. Same kind of shifting focus.

Maybe it’s a long gun close to eye thing but the circle didn’t phase out of the window for me. It was still visible when on target with the chevron.

I haven't had a chance to test it, but I don't think there's any focus* shift required. When the big circle becomes visible at the edge of the window, that's an obvious cue for a correction in the opposite direction. There's no need to look at the circle because it's not being used as an aiming point.

*are you using focus to mean focal depth, or where your eye is pointed?

[JCN]

I haven't had a chance to test it, but I don't think there's any focus* shift required. When the big circle becomes visible at the edge of the window, that's an obvious cue for a correction in the opposite direction. There's no need to look at the circle because it's not being used as an aiming point.

*are you using focus to mean focal depth, or where your eye is pointed?


https://youtu.be/-zJwlzdcp70

I made a video for you and just saying what I’m noticing.

There’s more processing power mentally used for recognizing that the red streak at speed with recoil and transition isn’t actually the dot you’re looking for. When I see a dot in the window, my mind immediately starts calculating approach angle and velocity so I can predictively break the shot as I steer it to target.

I absolutely want clear, clean and unencumbered tracking data. The circle adds a processing step and a mental filter while I figure out that the initial calculation velocity isn’t faithful because it was chaff. My targeting systems hate it.

[JCN]

Clusterfrack

There is a racing analogy here with the apex as the target.

You don’t stare at the apex the whole way into the target.

You glance and fix the apex spatially, but then you dart eyes back to track, back to apex, back to surroundings and back to apex as you approach in order to better calculate your speed, angle, yaw and pitch entering the apex at the right attitude, velocity and rotation. There is no correction at the apex because that wastes critical efficiency.

That’s what I do with target and red dot.

I look at target and then glance back to track red dot and target and dot and target… knowing the trajectory the dot is going to arrive because I’ve calculated it on the way in.

So I’m looking at the target and the dot appears while I’m looking at the target, but it was because I calculated it on the way in by picking up the dot early.

I don’t shift my eyes when they’re both in the field of the window.

[Wake27]

https://youtu.be/-zJwlzdcp70

I made a video for you and just saying what I’m noticing.

There’s more processing power mentally used for recognizing that the red streak at speed with recoil and transition isn’t actually the dot you’re looking for. When I see a dot in the window, my mind immediately starts calculating approach angle and velocity so I can predictively break the shot as I steer it to target.

I absolutely want clear, clean and unencumbered tracking data. The circle adds a processing step and a mental filter while I figure out that the initial calculation velocity isn’t faithful because it was chaff. My targeting systems hate it.

Unless I’m wrong, this is all based around the circle, which by their design, shouldn’t be visible when the optic is used as designed. This goes back to using it outside of its intended purpose, while it’s functional, it may not be ideal. If you drop the mount back a little bit, it may help.

As for the crutch thing, Aaron Cowan said the same but I don’t agree so I wonder if there’s something that I’m missing. I see the circle as helping to get you to the proper sight picture and presumably, as you practice, you’ll find it faster and faster until you’re there and don’t need it anymore. I don’t know why someone would hold on to finding that circle first and then looking for the chevron so I don’t know how it would be a detriment.

Because the circle disappears with proper presentation, I look at it more like training wheels that retract like landing gear when riding a bike smoothly more than just permanent wheels in place.


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[Clusterfrack]

JCN, thanks for making and posting that video.

I don’t have the ACSS on a pistol yet, and it seems unlikely that I will like it better than a SRO for USPSA. But I want to try it.

My visual feedback cycle is different than what you described.

On the draw or other mounting of the handgun, I don’t use the dot to adjust alignment of the gun until the very last moment, if needed. Sometimes I’ll miss my grip, and that will cause a misalignment, which I recognize by the dot not being centered. That’s easy to fix. Rarely, it will be misaligned enough to have the dot outside the window, and that is more difficult to fix, especially in situations like WHO in a weird position.

For shooting, I look at the spot on the target where I want the bullets to go. That spot remains in the center of my vision while the dot shows up, and I break the shots as appropriate.

What remains to be seen is whether fixing a misalignment is easier with the ACSS circle, and if the circle is distracting during the rest of the aiming and shooting process.

[JCN]

Wake27

Clusterfrack

It’s about how I use the dot in transitions and for a pistol in recoil management.

I don’t and won’t keep the dot in the center when transitioning. Same with recoil management. That’s where it’ll pull my vision away.

So use “as designed” means not using the center dot as I would normally. I’ll break the shot anytime dot is on target and it’s not always centered in the window because it doesn’t have to be.


https://youtu.be/wBM8AylEdIE

[Clusterfrack]

Wake27

Clusterfrack

It’s about how I use the dot in transitions and for a pistol in recoil management.

I don’t and won’t keep the dot in the center when transitioning. Same with recoil management. That’s where it’ll pull my vision away.

So use “as designed” means not using the center dot as I would normally. I’ll break the shot anytime dot is on target and it’s not always centered in the window because it doesn’t have to be.


https://youtu.be/wBM8AylEdIE

Great demo. I do the exact same thing. What remains to be seen is if the big ACSS circle interferes or aids that.

Edit: note that unless the dot is outside the window, the big circle should not be visible.

joshs, I edited your thread title to include the newer 509t2 ACSS. I hope you don't mind.

[GearFondler]

I find the idea intriguing mainly from the aspect of finding the dot from "non-square-range" positions or a fumbled draw under duress.
I also wonder about the bottom of the ring showing up during recoil, as in, does it appear in the window under recoil? I could see that being a very distracting second red streak.

[Wake27]

Interesting. I’m surprised so many of you guys notice such intricate details. I don’t even look at the reticle when competing or under even a minor level of stress. I only notice stuff like that when doing slow aimed fire.

And on transitions, I try to break away from the optic so I don’t get tunnel vision searching through my sights.

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[JCN]

Interesting. I’m surprised so many of you guys notice such intricate details. I don’t even look at the reticle when competing or under even a minor level of stress. I only notice stuff like that when doing slow aimed fire.

And on transitions, I try to break away from the optic so I don’t get tunnel vision searching through my sights.

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Here’s a video I did with an AimCam for my teaching thread to demonstrate what I’m seeing in dry fire.


https://youtu.be/i-nollyUFtc

You can see that the dot is in the window through all the transitions.

That’s what it looks like for me and I don’t want any phantom streaks. Just give me the see dot and shoot dot.

Similarly, at full speed I’m still seeing the dot but processing speed has to be faster. When I see red, I go.

I don’t have time to guess and interpret what that red is.


https://youtu.be/d1wIo3eTIwE

Getting to the higher levels of USPSA means you can see more, faster.

This was my slowed for vision pace. I absolutely tracked the dot through recoil and transition.

Note the tighter cluster of hits on the upper partial. That was an extra 0.01-0.02 of vision compared to the splits on the open sides and bottom.


https://youtu.be/1zknAzX2nr4

[JCN]

Wake27

If you ever have the misfortune to shoot an SRO into a setting sun and get a phantom dot, you might get a sense of how debilitating not having confidence in see dot shoot dot can be.

It’s also what effs me up when I try and use visible lasers with poor background contrast and I find myself hunting for the beam and not confident it is where I think it is.

All of that inefficiency strips away when you get clear, unfettered feedback from a dot.

[Oldherkpilot]

Here’s a video I did with an AimCam for my teaching thread to demonstrate what I’m seeing in dry fire.


https://youtu.be/i-nollyUFtc

You can see that the dot is in the window through all the transitions.

That’s what it looks like for me and I don’t want any phantom streaks. Just give me the see dot and shoot dot.

Similarly, at full speed I’m still seeing the dot but processing speed has to be faster. When I see red, I go.

I don’t have time to guess and interpret what that red is.


https://youtu.be/d1wIo3eTIwE

Getting to the higher levels of USPSA means you can see more, faster.

This was my slowed for vision pace. I absolutely tracked the dot through recoil and transition.

Note the tighter cluster of hits on the upper partial. That was an extra 0.01-0.02 of vision compared to the splits on the open sides and bottom.


https://youtu.be/1zknAzX2nr4

My initial reaction to your Four Aces clip was "shit, some days my split times look like your reload time."😀

[Wake27]

So I got this mounted on my offset to test out. In this application, I see what JCN is saying as I can’t quite get it to perfect distance from my eye, it probably needs to be moved a half inch forward for that. But it’s a minimal distraction for me in the application (as far as I can tell) so I’m going to roll with it and see how it does. Unfortunately I probably won’t be able to really test it the way I want for about a month when the next rifle match should happen.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220507/30ff9246174c638efdcac94524fe74a4.jpg


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[Clusterfrack]

I finally had the chance to zero and test my SRO milled (Stonebridge Gunworks (https://stonebridgegunworks.com/CZ-Shadow-2-Direct-Optic-Cut_p_124.html)) Shadow2 with the 509t2 Vulcan (https://www.primaryarms.com/holosun-he509-rd-enclosed-solar-powered-red-dot-sight-w-507c-mounting-plate-acss-vulcan-reticle). I sighted it at 10/25yds, with POI at tip of chevron. I found this very intuitive, and had no problem adjusting to this reticle. The big circle was not visible or noticeable except when I foxed my grip WHO. Again, I found it intuitive and had no issues adjusting to it. Also, windage was 2 clicks from POI, and elevation was 5 clicks from POI. That's an excellent milling job. Pic below compares the S2 to my P07 carry gun, direct milled for a non-Vulcan 509t2 by SBGW. JCN, GJM,
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220607/041197fee98e1801f0fc06298f9fd568.jpg

Note decked sight rail to fit the front bell of the SRO. I like the 509 so much, I doubt I’ll swap it for a SRO.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220607/f30320b4bc7264b4d996c707cf51c178.jpg

Stonebridge Gunworks (https://stonebridgegunworks.com/CZ-Shadow-2-Direct-Optic-Cut_p_124.html) did excellent work, and turned the gun around in 3 weeks. They even milled the front sight down.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220607/7fcced824e0118ce16dc2ccdfc69e472.jpg

I ran a Max Michel target focus drill with small black spots on targets of varying difficulty. I started at 7yds, established a comfortable par time (~3s clean)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220607/1bd8048020addc7c04a7ba6c56e864e4.jpg

And then moved out to 10,15,20, and 25. Here's a clean run at 20 yds.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220607/9eac4b76d282185de52b63bc50224373.jpg

I was very happy with the precision of the Vulcan chevron on the head-only NS target. This was from 25yds.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220607/ecf1f2f8e2dde3dfa9852d5ab796ccbd.jpg

[Wake27]

That reminds me, I shot my AR with the 507 Vulcan offset this past weekend. It didn’t help where I was really helping (bottom ports on a VTAC) but that was just because I couldn’t get behind it enough. I did shoot a full stage with it as my primary sighting system and liked it. It’ll probably be a while before I can really use it enough to have deeper thoughts but so far, I like the chevron in both of the contexts that I’ve used it.

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[JCN]

That reminds me, I shot my AR with the 507 Vulcan offset this past weekend. It didn’t help where I was really helping (bottom ports on a VTAC) but that was just because I couldn’t get behind it enough. I did shoot a full stage with it as my primary sighting system and liked it. It’ll probably be a while before I can really use it enough to have deeper thoughts but so far, I like the chevron in both of the contexts that I’ve used it.

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Did you do chevron only or chevron plus circle?

[Wake27]

Did you do chevron only or chevron plus circle?

So far, both. I can see a tiny part of the circle, maybe 10-15% of it when I roll the gun over and use the offset RDS. It’s such a small part that I don’t think it slows me down as a distractor but after I play with it a little more, I’ll turn it off if it’s not as usable as I was hoping for the battery life alone.

The chevron itself, being such a large reticle, may serve as the self-correcting feature that I was hoping to have in unconventional shooting positions anyways. MTF, I’m planning on shifting it at work on Tuesday, we have a competition that I’m not allowed to participate in but I’m going to run through it with the guys running the shoot before the comp starts so hopefully I’ll see some more varied use there.

I’m also planning on using this setup for a 5kish run n gun early next month so hopefully I’ll get to really get a feel for it. I do love the Razor though, it’s better on 1x than I remembered.


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[rdtompki]

I just did a timely re-read of this thread. I have a 507CO on my Staccato which I like thus far (new RDS shooter). The 8 MOA circle is appears to be a reasonable compromise for both carry and some forms of competition (steel challenge in my case).

I'm about to have two slides milled for an RMR plate, one for a full-size 1911, my wife's new HD gun, the other for one of our Kimber 4" barreled 1911's, maybe for competition. I'm confident the chevron would work well for me so I'm probably going to order two the the 507/ACSS, mount the CO on my wife's HD gun, and equip both the Staccato and Kimber with the ACSS. If I don't like the large circle I'll simply turn it off - nothing to loose IMO.

[Clusterfrack]

I’m still liking the 509t2 ACSS on my Shadow2. I’m finding it easier to be precise with the chevron than with a dot reticle. This was at 25yds, 7 of the hits are within 2”. Not especially slow fire either.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220715/4994b2047cf116fe291d68c4ba1a4c95.jpg

[Wake27]

I’m still liking my 507 too. I didn’t use the offset on my AR but shot a 5k run n gun with the 507 on my G45 (because the RMR dot on my Roland Special died the morning of the match…) and it was great. The reticle is very intuitive to me, though I don’t have identical pistol set ups to test the RMR vs ACSS with all of their factors being the same. The offset was on the gun though so it got banged around while doing obstacles and held up fine.


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