Korth Limited Edition [Archive]

RevolverRob

05-19-2021, 05:02 PM

3.5" with that lug design would be pretty hot, very 3.5" M27-esque.

I could actually pass on the color case hardening. I'd rather they do either a high-polish blue or even better a polish with a black DLC over it, which will wear well, but still look like a dark high polish blue.

Also, can we talk about how in 2021 introducing a 'vintage'-inspired gun and it not having nitre blued hardware should be considered a crime? :eek:

OlongJohnson

05-19-2021, 05:10 PM

I'd be happy if they just skipped the logo laser engraving on the normal ones.

RevolverRob

05-19-2021, 05:21 PM

I'd be happy if they just skipped the logo laser engraving on the normal ones.

The logo isn't what gets me. The HIDEOUS full underlug is what gets me. It is gigantic and totally unnecessary.

MandoWookie

05-19-2021, 05:44 PM

The logo isn't what gets me. The HIDEOUS full underlug is what gets me. It is gigantic and totally unnecessary.
That is my biggest hang up on most current production revolvers, S&W especially. The GP100s with the half lug should be the default, not special runs.
I didn't use to be a big fan of the look of case hardening, until I bought my Uberti 1858, after that, I really dig the aesthetic. Even though for the high humidity in my area, stainless is more practical.

Tuvia

05-19-2021, 05:57 PM

They make that gun in several finishes. Polished black DLC looks really good but the plasma blue is my favorite. It looks like that is a half lug not a full under lug.

https://kortharms.com/en/

OlongJohnson

05-19-2021, 05:58 PM

The logo isn't what gets me. The HIDEOUS full underlug is what gets me. It is gigantic and totally unnecessary.

Fully agree. If they built this gun https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/model-629?sku=163606 as an 8-shot .357, I'd have to buy one even with the lockhole.

Scal

05-19-2021, 06:59 PM

3.5" with that lug design would be pretty hot, very 3.5" M27-esque

I could actually pass on the color case hardening. I'd rather they do either a high-polish blue or even better a polish with a black DLC over it, which will wear well, but still look like a dark high polish blue.

Also, can we talk about how in 2021 introducing a 'vintage'-inspired gun and it not having nitre blued hardware should be considered a crime? :eek:

A DLC finish would look way better to me. I really disliked the S&W heritage revolver series case hardened frames, too. Color cased stuff looks good, but I tend to internally roll my eyes on having it done on guns that historically never had it in the first place. The lines of the thing are very nice, though.

jtcarm

05-19-2021, 08:40 PM

I prefer half lugs, too, but that gun is gaudy.

jc000

05-20-2021, 10:12 AM

…that gun is gaudy.

That's what makes it so awesome!!!

jh9

05-20-2021, 01:26 PM

Fully agree. If they built this gun https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/model-629?sku=163606 as an 8-shot .357, I'd have to buy one even with the lockhole.

I got good news and bad news.

The good news is that they're out there. The bad news is there ain't a whole lot of them.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/900973088

You got three hours to snag this one.

OlongJohnson

05-20-2021, 02:04 PM

I got good news and bad news.

The good news is that they're out there. The bad news is there ain't a whole lot of them.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/900973088

You got three hours to snag this one.

It's the six-inch barrel that's compelling, and hasn't been made. Stupid S&W...

I passed on a four-inch like the one in that auction a couple years ago for less money. That one had been worked over by Denny Reichardt. So I'm not going to pay more for less now.

I'm also reluctant to purchase any out-of-production, low-volume model from S&W after the last one I did, where it was obviously defective from the factory and they didn't have any inventory of the part that needed to be replaced.

RevolverRob

05-20-2021, 02:22 PM

I got good news and bad news.

The good news is that they're out there. The bad news is there ain't a whole lot of them.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/900973088

You got three hours to snag this one.

That's not too bad.

It's dumb, but I really want one of those Lew Horton "Registered Magnums" they did, 3.5" barrel, 8-shot cylinder:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/898965495

But 3g's is MR73 money and frankly I could buy a 627 and have the barrel chopped and the whole thing DLC coated and have money left over for a box of .357 at today's prices, for that kind of cash.

Edit: Does anyone know...can you fit one of the 8-shot cylinders to an old N-Frame? Did they change the frame window dimensions?

OlongJohnson

05-20-2021, 02:30 PM

I'm pretty sure the barrel centerline changed.

jh9

05-20-2021, 03:07 PM

I'm pretty sure the barrel centerline changed.

It changed enough to get its own internal designation. The 8-shot N-frames are "G" frames, sorta like (I think) the J-magnums are something like "E" frames.

edit: I also had Frank Glenn install a barrel on an 8-shot N-frame and I don't think there was anything that required special attention. The caveat is that there was no front lock (crane lock was installed in the yoke). So if you remove the front lock you might be able to install an old style N-frame barrel on a new 8-shot frame.

RevolverRob

05-20-2021, 07:15 PM

I'm pretty sure the barrel centerline changed.

Yes, barrel is higher and apparently so is the firing pin bushing.

Pretty quick to see the correct solution is to buy a 627 and cut it down and DLC coat it.

Spartan1980

05-20-2021, 07:30 PM

That's not too bad.

It's dumb, but I really want one of those Lew Horton "Registered Magnums" they did, 3.5" barrel, 8-shot cylinder:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/898965495

But 3g's is MR73 money and frankly I could buy a 627 and have the barrel chopped and the whole thing DLC coated and have money left over for a box of .357 at today's prices, for that kind of cash.

Edit: Does anyone know...can you fit one of the 8-shot cylinders to an old N-Frame? Did they change the frame window dimensions?

Ain't no fucking way I'd pay $3k for a S&W lock gun. Ever. Even if the MR73 and Korth were not available. A real RM? Yes, perhaps, but a wannabe repro with a lock? 'Eff that...

RevolverRob

05-20-2021, 07:53 PM

Ain't no fucking way I'd pay $3k for a S&W lock gun. Ever. Even if the MR73 and Korth were not available. A real RM? Yes, perhaps, but a wannabe repro with a lock? 'Eff that...

Well, for 3k, you can kind of maybe look at a real Registered Magnum. Currently running 8-10k for a real one.

I should have bought the real Registered Magnum I found that was about a 60% but lettered gun for the $3800 being asked about 10-years ago.

Spartan1980

05-20-2021, 07:58 PM

Well, for 3k, you can kind of maybe look at a real Registered Magnum. Currently running 8-10k for a real one.

I should have bought the real Registered Magnum I found that was about a 60% but lettered gun for the $3800 being asked about 10-years ago.

Yea, life caused me to quit looking at RMs at about the $5k price point. It's been a little while. I think I'll just replace the RM on my grail list with a MR73 or Korth. :cool:

FrankB

05-20-2021, 08:22 PM

Jeez... I’m practically giving away a 627 in the classifieds. Just saying.

OlongJohnson

05-20-2021, 08:28 PM

Ain't no fucking way I'd pay $3k for a S&W lock gun. Ever.

I like those Horton guns in theory, but the ones I've checked out in decent resolution photos showed all the craptacularity of modern S&W production. What good is it to have a checkered top strap if it's done so poorly that anyone with eyes would rather it hadn't been done? You'd have to have the whole thing rebuilt, detailed, refinished, etc. Cheaper to just buy a more expensive gun, as you point out.

And then there is the lockhole.

RevolverRob

05-20-2021, 09:24 PM

Jeez... I’m practically giving away a 627 in the classifieds. Just saying.

There are at least four guns listed in FS/T right now that I keep looking at and going, "If I wasn't moving across the country in a month..."

If they're still there in three months my new FFL is going to be a busy guy.

And I'm not saying your 627 and Welder's Beretta 82 are two of them, but I'm not, not saying that.

Welder

05-21-2021, 12:54 AM

There are at least four guns listed in FS/T right now that I keep looking at and going, "If I wasn't moving across the country in a month..."

If they're still there in three months my new FFL is going to be a busy guy.

And I'm not saying your 627 and Welder's Beretta 82 are two of them, but I'm not, not saying that.

Before you go starting rumors, it's an 81BB. ;)

JWintergreen

05-21-2021, 01:12 AM

It's the six-inch barrel that's compelling, and hasn't been made. Stupid S&W...

I passed on a four-inch like the one in that auction a couple years ago for less money. That one had been worked over by Denny Reichardt. So I'm not going to pay more for less now.

I'm also reluctant to purchase any out-of-production, low-volume model from S&W after the last one I did, where it was obviously defective from the factory and they didn't have any inventory of the part that needed to be replaced.

One of the things that led to the low sales of the 627-5 standard production guns was that S&W decided to use a half lug bull barrel instead of a half lug tapered barrel. I guess they did that to save money, but it turned off folks that had always wanted a stainless 27/28. A brushed stainless 3.5" tapered barrel 8 shot 627 would be nice to see. I am weary of new production Smiths, but that would be a tempting combination.

The 619/620 were lighter barreled .357 L frame offerings that were also unfortunately short lived. Bad timing, poor marketing, new model numbers, and the controversy about the lock and two piece barrels caused them to be stillborn. The 686 Mountain Gun is another gun that deserves more love. These guns are nearly identical in weight (or less in the case of the Mountain Gun) to a K frame magnum with a bull barrel. They also don't have the downsides of a K frame magnum (flat spot on forcing cone or lack of a gas ring). It would be nice if S&W would give the half lug .357 L frame another chance. Dick Baker's original "Super K" (L frame Prototype) used a half lug barrel. I have always wondered if a concern over K frame sales played a role in adding a full lug barrel and ballooning the weight to over 40 ounces (with target stocks).

Sorry for the slightly off topic post, but it is nice to see others interested in half lug/lighter barrelled revolvers.

RevolverRob

05-21-2021, 07:51 AM

Before you go starting rumors, it's an 81BB. ;)

Lo siento, I was working from memory and about half my normal sleep amount.

A half-lug tapered barrel 627, DLC coated, sans lock, would be awesome. Shame we'll never get it.

jh9

05-21-2021, 08:07 AM

Lo siento, I was working from memory and about half my normal sleep amount.

A half-lug tapered barrel 627, DLC coated, sans lock, would be awesome. Shame we'll never get it.

Let's not give up on the 8 shot carbon steel 27s just yet.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/135837282-post37.html?

The 8 shot pre-lock Patton gun almost exists. You just need to snag a 3.5" barrel off one of the Lew Horton NRMs and put it on the pre-lock 4" or 6" gun (then re-checker the topstrap). :cool:

The 3.5" NRMs can be found under $3k. Here's a couple that went for $2200ish and a shooter without the box that went for $1750.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/896408853
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/897244952
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/895137002

I've never seen the pre-lock 8 shot 27 4" in the wild, though. That might take some hunting.

Although maybe the 3.5" NRM is worth revisiting. WWPD about that lock? He'd file the nub of the flag off. Dude never met a piece of metal he couldn't make compliant with a file and some profanity. Grasshorn stags with no bark and a vintage Tyler T and you can LARP real hard between USPSA stages. "Leatham you magnificent bastard! I READ YOUR BOOK!"

All the while giving up nothing to a 929 except some sight radius.

RevolverRob

05-21-2021, 09:00 AM

Let's not give up on the 8 shot carbon steel 27s just yet.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/135837282-post37.html?

The 8 shot pre-lock Patton gun almost exists. You just need to snag a 3.5" barrel off one of the Lew Horton NRMs and put it on the pre-lock 4" or 6" gun (then re-checker the topstrap). :cool:

The 3.5" NRMs can be found under $3k. Here's a couple that went for $2200ish and a shooter without the box that went for $1750.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/896408853
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/897244952
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/895137002

I've never seen the pre-lock 8 shot 27 4" in the wild, though. That might take some hunting.

Although maybe the 3.5" NRM is worth revisiting. WWPD about that lock? He'd file the nub of the flag off. Dude never met a piece of metal he couldn't make compliant with a file and some profanity. Grasshorn stags with no bark and a vintage Tyler T and you can LARP real hard between USPSA stages. "Leatham you magnificent bastard! I READ YOUR BOOK!"

All the while giving up nothing to a 929 except some sight radius.

That shooter grade at 17 bills is still up there but closer to "reasonable".

Though the barrel is moved up in the 627 8-shooters today, I don't know what the overall dimensional changes are. You might be able to fit a tapered M27/28 barrel and simply shave the top down to match the frame.

According to this thread on Enos the difference is about 0.03" - https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/129973-8-shot-model-28-2-conversion/

Tuvia

05-21-2021, 06:57 PM

You could just lay down the five large and get a korth eight shot .357 magnum. Then You would have something worth having.

RevolverRob

05-21-2021, 09:50 PM

You could just lay down the five large and get a korth eight shot .357 magnum. Then You would have something truly ugly.

Fixed that one for you. The Korth 8-shooter is so ugly you need to tie a Registered Magnum around it, to get me to play with it.

I'm sure it's a lovely shooting gun, but the only thing uglier than it is a Mateba. Also, and I know it's a bit silly, but I start getting a little antsy thinking of spending 3.5-5k on a sleeved barrel gun. If I just want a sleeved barrel 8-shooter a 327 or Super GP100 is 40% or less the cost of the Korth.

JWintergreen

05-21-2021, 10:10 PM

Fixed that one for you. The Korth 8-shooter is so ugly you need to tie a Registered Magnum around it, to get me to play with it.

I'm sure it's a lovely shooting gun, but the only thing uglier than it is a Mateba. Also, and I know it's a bit silly, but I start getting a little antsy thinking of spending 3.5-5k on a sleeved barrel gun. If I just want a sleeved barrel 8-shooter a 327 or Super GP100 is 40% or less the cost of the Korth.

I concur. At 50 ounces for the all steel version, it is not very practical either. N frames are not as big as most people think. I consider them to be a "full size", yet not large frame revolver (see Redhawk, Anaconda, etc...). A tapered barrel, half lug N frame is about the same weight (or even less) as a full lug L frame, GP100, or Python. An N frame can have a capacity advantage, and provide a more balanced feel in the hand than a nose heavy full lug medium frame revolver. This is why offering a roughly 39-40 ounce tapered barrel 627 (with a 3.5" or 4" barrel) and giving the lighter half lug .357 L frame a fair shake would make sense. A tapered barrel 6 inch 627 would also be a dandy target gun. They could also market the N frame as a brushed stainless Highway Patrolman (628). I realize that S&W offers the 627 Pro Series, but the matte finish and slab sided barrel are not really what most folks had in mind when they pictured a stainless .357 N frame.

OlongJohnson

05-21-2021, 11:03 PM

I realize that S&W offers the 627 Pro Series, but the matte finish and slab sided barrel are not really what most folks had in mind when they pictured a stainless .357 N frame.

I loathe the slabbing the way S&W does it. It's like back in 1992, somedood in the shop with manual mill skills decided to hack down a full-lug barrel to get some weight out of it for someone's competition gun, and that became the hot setup that we're still stuck with decades later. Seriously, in a world with special order cutting heads and multi-axis CNC equipment, the best they can do looks like a first-semester high school shop student got jiggy with the mill?

It's not the flatting that bugs me, it's the overall aesthetic. I like the flats on on my GP MC, but the execution and the look are totally different.

JWintergreen

05-21-2021, 11:42 PM

I loathe the slabbing the way S&W does it. It's like back in 1992, somedood in the shop with manual mill skills decided to hack down a full-lug barrel to get some weight out of it for someone's competition gun, and that became the hot setup that we're still stuck with decades later. Seriously, in a world with special order cutting heads and multi-axis CNC equipment, the best they can do looks like a first-semester high school shop student got jiggy with the mill?

It's not the flatting that bugs me, it's the overall aesthetic. I like the flats on on my GP MC, but the execution and the look are totally different.

LOL. I agree that it can be done well. The only thing that gets me about the MC is that the .357 version does not have the classic GP plunger style interchangeable front sight, due to the deep target crown. It would be nice if Ruger would finally offer a half lug, adj. sight 4", stainless .357 GP100 that has that front sight setup. Basically, the 10mm MC version is what I would like to see chambered in .357. Personally, I would rather see this potential version as a six shot, due to more speedloader options. I think it would be a good seller and would also appeal as a lower priced "standard" model. One of the biggest problems with the double action revolver market is a lack of handy sixguns. Guns like the GP are heavy enough without a full lug, that they won't beat up most shooters with magnum loads. Full lugs should not be the only option for folks on any medium frame revolver.

P30

05-22-2021, 06:10 AM

I'm not so much a revolver guy, since where I live we don't get as many gun licenses as the heart desires. So I focus on pistols.

But these revolvers are awesome:
club30.de/waffen-club-30-revolver.html (https://www.club30.de/waffen-club-30-revolver.html)

Examples:

German-US co-production (based on a S&W revolver):

https://www.club30.de/web/images/competition-club-30-big.jpg

Their newest model:

https://www.club30.de/web/images/RLrange-club-30-big-d.jpg

Club 30 revolvers have a great reputation among German sport shooters.

awp_101

05-22-2021, 08:52 AM

One of the biggest problems with the double action revolver market is a lack of handy sixguns. Guns like the GP are heavy enough without a full lug, that they won't beat up most shooters with magnum loads. Full lugs should not be the only option for folks on any medium frame revolver.

71769

Tuvia

05-22-2021, 06:33 PM

Fixed that one for you. The Korth 8-shooter is so ugly you need to tie a Registered Magnum around it, to get me to play with it.

I'm sure it's a lovely shooting gun, but the only thing uglier than it is a Mateba. Also, and I know it's a bit silly, but I start getting a little antsy thinking of spending 3.5-5k on a sleeved barrel gun. If I just want a sleeved barrel 8-shooter a 327 or Super GP100 is 40% or less the cost of the Korth.

I expected that. At the end of the day you will still have a smith which will never be the revolver a Korth is. These are made for competition and they do make a more traditional looking revolver. There are some people who just want the best which a Smith will never be.

I had a guy come up to me at the range and tell me his Buckmark was the best .22LR made. I was shooting a Feinwerkbau AW93. He did not even know what it was.
Believe me I used to shoot some real junk it was all I could afford but it was still fun. Later in life now and I want the best cost is secondary. If You want to shoot an incredible revolver try a Janz.

RevolverRob

05-22-2021, 10:45 PM

I had a guy come up to me at the range and tell me his Buckmark was the best .22LR made. I was shooting a Feinwerkbau AW93. He did not even know what it was.

I find nothing ruins a range experience quite like other human beings.

That's why I've spent thousands of dollars across now three states to have memberships at private range facilities, where I can reserve a bay without any other people present. That way I can work on shooting my lowly full custom 2011 without interruption. I mean, that gun is no Feinwerkbau, but still, being able to shoot a 1/2" group off the bench at 25-yards with fixed sights using Federal American Eagle ammo is pretty good. :o

Tuvia

05-23-2021, 03:14 PM

I find nothing ruins a range experience quite like other human beings.

That's why I've spent thousands of dollars across now three states to have memberships at private range facilities, where I can reserve a bay without any other people present. That way I can work on shooting my lowly full custom 2011 without interruption. I mean, that gun is no Feinwerkbau, but still, being able to shoot a 1/2" group off the bench at 25-yards with fixed sights using Federal American Eagle ammo is pretty good. :o

Im going to guess you meant 1911. Went through the custom 1911 phase a long time ago. Yeah you are right especially when they don't watch their muzzle discipline. I actually like fellow shooters when they respect others and let them shoot my guns.

FrankB

05-23-2021, 05:20 PM

Im going to guess you meant 1911. Went through the custom 1911 phase a long time ago. Yeah you are right especially when they don't watch their muzzle discipline. I actually like fellow shooters when they respect others and let them shoot my guns.

A 2011 is a double stack 1911.

zeleny

05-25-2021, 07:47 PM

A 2011 is a double stack 1911.Strictly speaking, 2011 is a trademark currently owned by STACCATO 2011, LLC (https://trademarks.justia.com/owners/staccato-2011-llc-4557466/), of a modular double stack derivative of John M. Browning’s M1911, patented in 1994 by Sandy L. Strayer and Virgil P. Tripp (https://patents.justia.com/inventor/sandy-l-strayer). Generically, if unlawfully, this designation is applied to the same design realized by other manufacturers, including most notably Sandy Strayer’s SVI Infinity Firearms (https://www.sviguns.com/).

71896

zeleny

05-26-2021, 04:17 PM

71914

71915

71916

71917

The abbreviated lug is a step in the right direction. Likewise the lack of the gaudy Nighthawk logo. I’d take PVD over CCH, but counter-clockwise cylinder rotation remains the deal breaker (https://larvatus.livejournal.com/tag/korth).

zeleny

05-26-2021, 04:33 PM

This is what I consider the pinnacle of Korth quality: a 4" Korth Combat .357 Magnum, serial number 38373 (https://goo.gl/photos/MPqgJvGhhJq9X37M6), Kiel proof marks date coded JK for 1989 (https://www.internationalsportsman.com/proof-marks-date-codes-and-german-firearms/). Starting with the 37XXX series, the Ratzeburg Korth action is timed to drop the bolt into the lead of the cylinder notch, minimizing the likelihood of developing a cylinder ring. Apart from rotating the wrong way, Lollar revolvers are marred by cheap LPA sights and gappy sideplate fit.

71919

71920