I want a heavy but low power scope

[314159]

I built a lightweight Remington 7600 carbine long ago and did a great job, if I say so myself.

A bit too good of a job. Ageing makes you really appreciate light weight but my recoil tolerance has dropped as well. I want to increase the weight a bit and rather than just put lead in the butt stock and mess up the balance I plan on adding steel scope rings and a steel tube scope to fatten it up some. If that's not enough I will add a weight.

So, recommendations for a 2 to preferably 3 power, 1 inch or 30mm steel tube scope? I'm thinking an old Weaver K3 but I would like recommendations from the hive mind here. In the era of steel scope tubes I don't think there were a lot of good variables to choose from but I'm open minded...

[BobM]

The Weaver K3 or K4 was the first thing I thought of too. I’m not sure what else is out there along those lines.

[JHC]

ACOG TA11 for the win! With Larue QD mounts on the strip of rail you'll add. Awesome optic and weight.

[P30]

An alternative that comes to mind:

limbsaver.com/pages/recoil-pads-showcase (https://limbsaver.com/pages/recoil-pads-showcase)

I don't have this product but would try something like this first. I like it light (motorbikes, rifles, ...).

PS:
americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/4/11/10-ways-to-manage-recoil (https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/4/11/10-ways-to-manage-recoil):

Many excellent pads are available, but my shoulder says the LimbSaver from Sims Vibration Laboratory, the Kickeez, the Pachmayr Decelerator and the Remington Supercell cannot be beat.

[TWR]

I think most of the newer LPVO's are 20 oz. or over, some way over (think Razor). Any reason you're not looking at them?

[314159]

The rifle has a top notch pad already. I don't even want to think about the cost and/or availability of a TA11 these days (also lack of diopter adjustments). A modern LPVO might be the solution, I had no idea Razors were that heavy. Thanks for the tip TWR.

I blame a long term fascination with Col. Cooper's Scout Rifle writings with my light weight rifle obsession.

[okie john]

I built a lightweight Remington 7600 carbine long ago and did a great job, if I say so myself.

A bit too good of a job. Ageing makes you really appreciate light weight but my recoil tolerance has dropped as well. I want to increase the weight a bit and rather than just put lead in the butt stock and mess up the balance I plan on adding steel scope rings and a steel tube scope to fatten it up some. If that's not enough I will add a weight.

So, recommendations for a 2 to preferably 3 power, 1 inch or 30mm steel tube scope? I'm thinking an old Weaver K3 but I would like recommendations from the hive mind here. In the era of steel scope tubes I don't think there were a lot of good variables to choose from but I'm open minded...

Older Weavers will add some heft but maybe not as much as you'd think. Reticle options are limited, the reticle may not be centered in the field of view, and nobody works on them any more. They're also not as weatherproof as modern scopes and some of the glass may be starting to get a little cloudy. On the plus side, they'll look right at home on a 7600 carbine, especially if you go with bases like these https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1362111673, which will also add some weight. Older Leupolds are also starting to get a little long in the tooth but they'll have fewer issues than a vintage Weaver. They were made in 2.5x, 3x, and 4x, plus decent 1-4x variables that would not look out of place on a 7600.

There's also the option of a fixed 4x with a 30mm tube. The only one of those I know about is this: https://www.kaps-optik.de/en/sport-optics/rifle-scopes/classic-line/classic-line-4-x-36.html Kaps has a good reputation but little if any support in the US so any repair or warranty work means a return to Deutschland.

The other option is to go with a steel 1913 rail. Not sure if anyone makes one for the 7600 but I suppose it's possible. There are plenty of steel rings to fit them and some of those are very heavy. If you go that route, then old-school aesthetics are out the window and a Nightforce SHV 3-10x42 would work relly well.

But adding weight aft of the chamber will wreck the balance, so the muzzle will float on fast offhand shots and the gun will be harder to use well. Not sure I'd go that route...

The real problem is recoil, which is an ammo issue, so why not focus on that? Modern bullets and propellants let the 30-06 perform like the 300 H&H did 25-30 years ago. Modern 30-06/180 loads are ideal for really large animals, but they're way more than you need for deer. Today's 150-grain cup-and-core bullets are better than ever, and 150-grain monolithics penetrate like the 180s of yore. So if you use factory ammo, then you could cut recoil somewhat by cutting bullet weight.

If you handload, then you can create reduced loads using H4895 and the instructions at https://imrpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/h4895-reduced-rifle-loads.pdf My son absolutely pole-axed a 200-ish pound hog with a 165-grain Remington Pointed Soft Point CoreLokt from a 20.5" Husqvarna 30-06 carbine. Muzzle velocity was 2,550 FPS. That’s basically a hot 300 Savage or a mild 308, but it's solid deer medicine and recoil is mild.


Okie John

[pastaslinger]

The Razor gen II (not gen II-E) is on the heavy side, and there are plenty of bulky one piece mounts available

If you can do some more power, the Vortex Razor gen II 3-18x is pretty damn heavy

[LittleLebowski]

How about a silencer?

[314159]

That would just mess up the balance in a forward direction!

[JDB]

If you handload, then you can create reduced loads using H4895 and the instructions at https://imrpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/h4895-reduced-rifle-loads.pdf My son absolutely pole-axed a 200-ish pound hog with a 165-grain Remington Pointed Soft Point CoreLokt from a 20.5" Husqvarna 30-06 carbine. Muzzle velocity was 2,550 FPS. That’s basically a hot 300 Savage or a mild 308, but it's solid deer medicine and recoil is mild.


Okie John


Nice rifle choice! I've started using my pop's old Husqvarna 30-06 for my last several deer. Unfortunately, I can't get better than 2 MOA out of it, so think I'll move on for open country hunting. How's your's shoot?

James

[Wake27]

Another vote for the razor. Great performance and the heavier non-E versions can be had used under $1k. I don’t know anything about the other scopes mentioned but I bet the razor can stack up against if not out perform most or all. Might as well add capability with that weight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[okie john]

Nice rifle choice! I've started using my pop's old Husqvarna 30-06 for my last several deer. Unfortunately, I can't get better than 2 MOA out of it, so think I'll move on for open country hunting. How's your's shoot?

James

That one is a 1640, which is a small-ring commercial Mauser based on the 1898. Husqvarna considers it an "improved" version but that's open to debate. I've owned several over the years and found them to be accurate, especially with bargain factory loads like the Remington CoreLokt, Winchester PowerPoint, and the Federal HiShok in both 150- and 180-grain weights. They're known to damage their stocks in recoil, usually by splitting the web. The tangs also weren't always relieved properly, so look for damage there. This is particularly common on guns they built for other brands like JC Higgins. Glass bedding should fix all of that. In 30-06, they have a 1:12 twist, which is a little too slow for 220-grain bullets but anything lighter should shoot well.

You can spot a 1640 by the tiny bolt stop on the left side of the action as shown here:

71449

I've also owned a number of 640s, which are built on a commercial 98 Mauser actions made by FN in Belgium. Stocks are usually beech or birch, both of which are harder and somewhat heavier than walnut. All of the standard accuracy tricks for the 98 work with this one. The first thing to check is the action screw tension. Crank in the front one as tight as it will go with a screwdriver. Do the same thing to the back one, then back it out 1/4 to 1/3 of a turn. Adjusting the tension on the rear screw can change group size. Some of those shoot best when they're free floated, others seem to need a little bit of upward pressure from the stock. Glass bedding never hurts, either, but if you do that, then crank both screws in good and tight.

You can spot them by the massive Mauser bolt stop on the left side of the action as shown here:

71450

Either should be a solid hunting rifle that will provide decades of service is the bore is any good. Scandinavians know how to build solid hunting rifles.


Okie John

[JDB]

That one is a 1640, which is a small-ring commercial Mauser based on the 1898. Husqvarna considers it an "improved" version but that's open to debate. I've owned several over the years and found them to be accurate, especially with bargain factory loads like the Remington CoreLokt, Winchester PowerPoint, and the Federal HiShok in both 150- and 180-grain weights. They're known to damage their stocks in recoil, usually by splitting the web. The tangs also weren't always relieved properly, so look for damage there. This is particularly common on guns they built for other brands like JC Higgins. Glass bedding should fix all of that. In 30-06, they have a 1:12 twist, which is a little too slow for 220-grain bullets but anything lighter should shoot well.

You can spot a 1640 by the tiny bolt stop on the left side of the action as shown here:

71449

I've also owned a number of 640s, which are built on a commercial 98 Mauser actions made by FN in Belgium. Stocks are usually beech or birch, both of which are harder and somewhat heavier than walnut. All of the standard accuracy tricks for the 98 work with this one. The first thing to check is the action screw tension. Crank in the front one as tight as it will go with a screwdriver. Do the same thing to the back one, then back it out 1/4 to 1/3 of a turn. Adjusting the tension on the rear screw can change group size. Some of those shoot best when they're free floated, others seem to need a little bit of upward pressure from the stock. Glass bedding never hurts, either, but if you do that, then crank both screws in good and tight.

You can spot them by the massive Mauser bolt stop on the left side of the action as shown here:

71450

Either should be a solid hunting rifle that will provide decades of service is the bore is any good. Scandinavians know how to build solid hunting rifles.


Okie John

Hey thanks! Mine is a 1640 then. I'll try action screw tension then, already glass bedded it. For sentimental reasons, I'd hate to have to get a new barrel. It's such a handy rifle. I had it Ceracoted it black last year, thinking it would be my coastal AK gun. But the accuracy just isn't cutting it right now.

[okie john]

Hey thanks! Mine is a 1640 then. I'll try action screw tension then, already glass bedded it. For sentimental reasons, I'd hate to have to get a new barrel. It's such a handy rifle. I had it Ceracoted it black last year, thinking it would be my coastal AK gun. But the accuracy just isn't cutting it right now.

A few questions:

What optic and loads are giving you 2 MOA?

Is the barrel free floated? Humidity can warp the stock enough to make it touch the barrel which can open up groups. Also, you should weatherproof the interior of the stock with something like Johnson's Paste Wax to be on the safe side.

How does the crown look? You might need to have a gunsmith clean this up if it's nicked or dinged.

When is the last time you cleaned the bore down to bare metal with something like Sweets? Those old rifles can hide a surprising amount of fouling.

What kind of trigger are you using? Some of the factory triggers are essentially a military k98 trigger and could use some love from a smith. If nothing else, it's easy to take them apart, clean them, and reassemble them, which can really help.

Have you rechecked the rings, bases, and mounts, and LocTited them in place? The 1640 is so light that those things shoot loose faster than they do on heavier rifles.

Also, the next time you take it out of the stick, use LocTite 243 on the screw that holds the ejector in place. An ounce of prevention and all that...


Okie John

[zeleny]

I built a lightweight Remington 7600 carbine long ago and did a great job, if I say so myself.

A bit too good of a job. Ageing makes you really appreciate light weight but my recoil tolerance has dropped as well. I want to increase the weight a bit and rather than just put lead in the butt stock and mess up the balance I plan on adding steel scope rings and a steel tube scope to fatten it up some. If that's not enough I will add a weight.

So, recommendations for a 2 to preferably 3 power, 1 inch or 30mm steel tube scope? I'm thinking an old Weaver K3 but I would like recommendations from the hive mind here. In the era of steel scope tubes I don't think there were a lot of good variables to choose from but I'm open minded...I prefer steel scope tubes myself. The only recent production steel tube scope that I know of is the scarce and costly 10x U.S. Optics MST-100. You might try finding a Zeiss/Hensoldt DIASTA 4x32 or Kahles Helia 1.1-4.5x20 scope.