What's an Assault Rifle?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Remember that when someone says assault rifle or weapon for a semi AR, folks have fits of definitional OCD. Gun folks tried MSR as a palliative to mitigate the evil of guns. They are really sporting toys. Some media and antis switched to military styled semiautomatic rifles to avoid the angry emails and tweets about definitions. Note it is very important to distinguish between fully auto and semi as idiots get confused. However, trying to downplay the lethality of semis is foolish - as a Guns and Ammo video once tried to do. Blah, blah.

So I see this on the Internet and what can I say.

71148


Minis have avoid ban laws but they are catching the attention of banners in Canada and Norway in particular, after rampages there. So if you have a blazing assault rifle - beware.

[JRB]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say with this, Glenn. Of course the anti-gun folks will find new ways to blame or ban shit they exempted previously or just didn't notice. Look at the Cali microstamping BS for all LE guns being pushed now.

Terminology has changed a lot on a lot of things since March of 1980, the least of which is '45 auto', 'blazing assault rifle' or 'auto shotgun'.

I did chuckle a little bit at the 'Is the 45 auto dead!??!?' According to my HK45C and stash of 230grn Gold Dots, it's still alive and well, 41 years after that magazine was published.

[Suvorov]

I do love me some Mini-14 porn in the morning!

[Trooper224]

Arguments and concerns over this terminology are really pointless. The left has adopted these terms and put them into common parlance. Regardless of the strict definition, we all know what "assault rifle" means in 2021, blazing or otherwise. Time to find another hill.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I wasn't making a cosmic point. I just thought it was ironic given the debates about terms. I ditched my noncompliant AR for a nice stainless, synthetic stocked mini when I moved. I'm toying with a compliant NY AR - the two options are not optimal, weird stock, naked but removable mags (10 rounds) vs. normal looking with a weird fixed mag. Rooting for Scotus to wipe all that out - fat chance.

I loved my good old Olympic Arms AR with an Eotech, shot a match with only 3 points down! About 50 targets all together. Time, glacial for FOG.

As far as the 45 - there are still threads going on whether it is dead. Just bought 200 rounds of expensive 230 gr FMJ, but the bite wasn't that bad as I had credit card points I could use (so it wasn't real money - extremely financial genius, am I!). I am reluctant to spend $100 bucks for a single stack match. But I dropped $100 for dinner for the two of us - so maybe.

AWBs and mag bans drive me nuts as they are so antithetical to gun rights - but what else is new.

[Suvorov]

Arguments and concerns over this terminology are really pointless. The left has adopted these terms and put them into common parlance. Regardless of the strict definition, we all know what "assault rifle" means in 2021, blazing or otherwise. Time to find another hill.

Yep, I think Merriam-Webster changed the definition a couple years ago to include firearms that are not fully automatic but have “military”features.

Always helpful when you have the definers of language on your side......

[Guerrero]

It's any rifle you use to assault someone. Duh.

[Hambo]

I do love me some Mini-14 porn in the morning!

And not the softcore Mini-14 porn, either. Full stocked Mini-14 porn. :cool: Off to GunBroker...

[GyroF-16]

Yep, I think Merriam-Webster changed the definition a couple years ago to include firearms that are not fully automatic but have “military”features.

Always helpful when you have the definers of language on your side......

I guess they went with the “in common use” standard for the definition. /S

[Glenn E. Meyer]

So I get this in my email today:

https://americancop.com/fighting-rifles-ruger-pc-carbine/

Fighting Rifle? Terms, terms.

I dunno - BTW, I truly like my Ruger fighting rifle. Waiting for outdoor matches to run it as PCC. I guess my focus is that it is a matter of time before these sort of semis get banned unless there is some court or legislative preventive action. We recall that Las Vegas almost produced such a ban, or so the story goes - till the bump stock diversionary tactic lured he who must not be named away.

[OlongJohnson]

One thing that bugs me is the claim that the antis "invented" the term (as far as applying it to non-FA firearms) in the '80s.

We should all know that the "full auto" meaning was a working definition or understanding, if not rigorously and precisely delimited category, describing a general type of actual military arm, in official use going back into at least the 60s if not the 50s. (I haven't personally seen military weapons ID manuals going back that far.)

Jack O'Connor's 1970 book, The Hunting Rifle, refers to the Colt AR as an "assault rifle" in a way that implies that would be a term understood by and familiar to his audience.

Literature I have in my possession provides evidence that the gun industry and associated media were pumping up the term in an attempt to build market interest and move some iron in the mid-'80s, prior to the Brady Bunch latching onto it as an alternative path forward that would likely be more productive for their cause than banning handguns.

I don't see how it benefits us in the long run to be either ignorant or less than honest about the history.

[Suvorov]

And not the softcore Mini-14 porn, either. Full stocked Mini-14 porn. :cool: Off to GunBroker...

Ohh - I’m still waiting for delivery of my A-TM Samson folder 🙁

Because - Hannibal Smith!

But a Mini in a full stock has a great degree of juxtaposition appeal....

[TiroFijo]

"combat rifle"
"assaullt rifle"
"sniper rifle"
... ;)

[Borderland]

"combat rifle"
"assaullt rifle"
"sniper rifle"
... ;)

You can add "battle rifle".

[Borderland]

And not the softcore Mini-14 porn, either. Full stocked Mini-14 porn. :cool: Off to GunBroker...

Wow, 1K plus on those GB rifles. I bought a new one a few years ago for $750. The consensus then was that's stupid because an AR ran about the same price. They need to be tuned up (trigger and gas port) so really about $850 to be useful. They also don't shoot as well as your average $750 AR generally and you can't hang all the tactically cool stuff on them. But they look fairly harmless with a wood stock so they have that Walt Kowalski get-off-my-lawn appeal.

I was ringing some steel with mine yesterday and had a few old guys who were interested in it. How does it shoot? Shoots just fine. Rings the 12" plate at 200 yds without fail. Let me demonstrate. ;)

[JJN]

An intermediate rifle cartridge rifle with full auto capability in order for a maneuvering infantry element to have automatic fire capability on their assault. The Stg44, AR-15/M-16, and AK47 are the archetypes for this.

[Phaedrus]

I thinks Jane's long ago defined it as a selective fire carbine or rifle in an intermediate caliber. That's the definition I've used for 40 years or so.

[Suvorov]

Wow, 1K plus on those GB rifles. I bought a new one a few years ago for $750. The consensus then was that's stupid because an AR ran about the same price. They need to be tuned up (trigger and gas port) so really about $850 to be useful. They also don't shoot as well as your average $750 AR generally and you can't hang all the tactically cool stuff on them. But they look fairly harmless with a wood stock so they have that Walt Kowalski get-off-my-lawn appeal.

I was ringing some steel with mine yesterday and had a few old guys who were interested in it. How does it shoot? Shoots just fine. Rings the 12" plate at 200 yds without fail. Let me demonstrate. ;)

I really would have liked a GB in stainless, but Kalifornia.....

Hopefully after I move the prices on those will become more reasonable as it will better complete my “Hannibal Smith Special” than the standard ranch model I have (even though it is one of the interim 580s with the pencil barrels).

Ahh to be a child of the 80s.....

[Suvorov]

I thinks Jane's long ago defined it as a selective fire carbine or rifle in an intermediate caliber. That's the definition I've used for 40 years or so.

What does Jane’s know about firearms that Merrimack-Webster and the media don’t? 😉

[Glenn E. Meyer]

If new bans come, they will take out all semi rifles down to the 10/22s. The stupid lists will be gone for a generic take down of the functionality. All the definition debates will be for naught.

You think a 10/22 with a 30 round mag or a Ruger PCC with a 28 round Glock mag won't be an evil gun? Who cares about the Sturmfunkenboomerdoomer? They won't.

That's why if the GOP ever gets back into the Presidency and Congressional majorities - they need to pass something like the SAGA act, which Moscow Mitch and Paul Ryan never let come near the floor. Yes, there are all kinds of weeds arguments why they didn't. Don't care.

Or Scotus unambiguously voids state and future AWBs, mag limits, semi limits, etc. Probably not in my old fart lifetime at their pace.

[KellyinAvon]

An assault rifle has similar features to the Grand Daddy of them all, the StG-44 Sturmgewehr. Intermediate sized cartridge, shorter barrel, detachable magazine with higher capacity than standard rifles, AND, selective fire (semi and FA or burst.)

[Glenn E. Meyer]

We all know that and it makes no difference to the oncoming bans. When the researchers from the DOJ presented their studies at the American Society for Criminology that the AWB didn't reduce any crime indices, the gun world said: SEE!

The researchers and DOJ discussants said that was because of:

1. Existing stocks of weapons
2. Newly produced weapons of equal efficacy without the cosmetic features

For some reason, perhaps Ruger going along with mag bans, the Minis skirted the bans and still do in some version. They weapons of equal efficacy and only idiocy of the banners protected them.

Look at my Ruger 'fighting rife' - it is compliant as it doesn't have a threaded barrel. Well, that made the world a safer place.

The old definitions are not relevant except for the full and semi designation. Now, pointing that out as a reason not ban, does implicitly throw changing the NFA under the bus.

[echo5charlie]

Sensationalism sells. Facts, yes, but on a far lesser scale.

[JohnO]

The real issue here is language used as a weapon. Words used to engender a desired response or reaction in the poorly informed or uneducated.

Then those who chose to use language as a weapon mount a multipronged attack. The phrase "Common Sense" will be trotted out. Because of course, who could possibly be against common sense gun control?

[LOKNLOD]

The real issue here is language used as a weapon. Words used to engender a desired response or reaction in the poorly informed or uneducated.

Then those who chose to use language as a weapon mount a multipronged attack. The phrase "Common Sense" will be trotted out. Because of course, who could possibly be against common sense gun control?

Language is contagious and easily weaponized. The left is very good at it, as evidenced by their influence in pop culture of all sorts is silly wokeness that becomes part of the vernacular regardless of how asinine we all think it is. When we use it, even mockingly, we support its spread. When we argue about their dumb words, we are validating them in a way, and usually wasting time fighting the words instead of fighting the ideas.

[JohnO]

Language is contagious and easily weaponized. The left is very good at it, as evidenced by their influence in pop culture of all sorts is silly wokeness that becomes part of the vernacular regardless of how asinine we all think it is. When we use it, even mockingly, we support its spread. When we argue about their dumb words, we are validating them in a way, and usually wasting time fighting the words instead of fighting the ideas.

Correct!

For Example: Social Distancing <- Pure bovine excrement wordsmithing. If I were socially distancing myself from you I wouldn't quote you. I wouldn't answer your calls. I would just ignore you and have nothing to do with you.

However if I were staying at least 6 feet away from you I would be Physically Distancing myself from you

[Shotgun]

I like the US Army definition from 1970:

"Assault rifles are short, compact, selective-fire weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between submachinegun and rifle cartridges. . . . Assault rifles have mild recoil characteristics and, because of this, are capable of delivering effective full-automatic fire at ranges up to 300 meters."

Words matter, and I always try to correct those in my social circle who are not very well versed in firearms should they ever refer to an AR-15 or AR-10 as an "assault rifle." The simple distinction that most understand quickly is that AR-15s are not fully automatic.

Could one fight with an AR-15? Sure, but that doesn't make it an assault rifle. The M1 Garand was the standard US service rifle in WWII and the Korean War. You can definitely fight with the semi-automatic M1, but that doesn't make it an "assault rifle."